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07-02-2007 - Regular (. , o o CITY COUNCIL OF EDGEWATER REGULAR MEETING JULY 2, 2007 7:00 P.M. COMMUNITY CENTER MINUTES 1. CALL TO ORDER vice Mayor Vincenzi called the Regular Meeting to order at 7:00 p.m. in the Community Center. ROLL CALL Mayor Michael Thomas Councilwoman Debra Rogers Vice Mayor Dennis Vincenzi Councilwoman Harriet Rhodes Councilwoman Judith Lichter City Manager Jon Williams City Clerk Susan Wadsworth City Attorney Michael Ciocchetti Excused Present Present Present Present Present Present Present INVOCATION, PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE There was a silent invocation and pledge of allegiance to the Flag. 2. APPROVAL OF MINUTES A. Regular Meeting of April 16, 2007 Councilwoman Rhodes moved to approve the April 16, 2007 minutes, second by Councilwoman Lichter. The MOTION CARRIED 4 - 0 . B. Regular Meeting of May 7, 2007 Councilwoman Lichter moved to approve the May 7, 2007 minutes, second by Councilwoman Rogers. The MOTION CARRIED 4 -0. 3. PRESENTATIONS/PROCLAMATIONS/PLAQUES/CERTIFICATES/DON ATIONS Page 1 of 30 Council Regular Meeting July 2,2007 << < o o There were no Presentations to be made at this time. 4. CITIZEN COMMENTS The following citizens spoke: Eddie Timmons, 304 S. U.S. #1, Oak Hill, stated he was very concerned about some comments received to him by the Mayor's son. He threatened him using several f based profanities telling him the City will not renew the contract if he is elected to the Board of Little League during a general assembly little league meeting. He asked if this was normal City tactics. His friend Bill also had his name tarnished by many concerned league members about the same issues stating if he was reelected president that the City would not renew the contract with Little League. He asked who is going to be held responsible? He hopes this can be resolved and little league can remain autonomous. He feels they need civilian committees who manage volunteer sports organizations, which would be separate from politicians and City government. He asked which of the Councilmembers would initiate this legislation. He realized little league provided private funding, which alleviates the City of another expense. with a committee such as this the City could focus on maintenance and safety lighting for the beautiful fields. He feels this is sharing the burden for giving their children an exciting, safe and competitive sports environment. He informed Council they have no idea what they have done opening up a can. They have messed with him and his family, and he was saying it as the City of Edgewater and he believed he was referencing Mr. Williams and the Chief of Police. There will be hell to pay. He will deal with it legally and civilly and in whatever manner he needs to and when he is done he will not leave any stone unturned. Bill Lacbenal, 3022 Vista Palm Drive, stated for 406 days he was the Southeast Volusia Little League President. He led a team dedicated to create recreational and competitive baseball all in one program. The goal is to allow the children of our community to develop skills that will allow them to play high school ball and beyond. 1600 hours dedicated to this effort would be a very conservative effort. Some accomplishments, new equipment, more practice, more games, quality uniforms, tournament and all Page 2 of 30 Council Regular Meeting July 2,2007 ~ ~ o o star play, surpassing their fund raising goals, 297 players, and over 150 registered volunteers. The Coach Timmons car wash raised $13,000 alone. He asked Mr. Williams if that sounded like a failure to him. He stated Mr. Williams said he failed little league because they did not suspend Coach Timmons. Mr. Williams had a no trespass warning served on Coach Timmons. This was not requested by the league as required by the contract. Mr. Williams never contacted him before taking this action. To his knowledge Mr. Williams never adequately investigated the allegations before acting. This also happened during the City ran soccer program as well. A 16-year old referee was fired over the soccer incident and was quickly rehired when the parents confronted the City. During the soccer debacle, his II-year old son was threatened by a City employee while passing out flyers. She also threatened the little league contract. You were e-mailed that night about first amendment rights. Recently in a meeting with the Mayor, Chris Thomas, Jeff Fidler and himself, Mr. Williams said and he quoted I would hate to go to the Council and recommend that they not renew the contract with little league unquote. The Mayor tried to convince him this was an isolated incident but when he asked for confirmation Mr. Williams led him to believe he would do this again. That is government control over a private program and he will not tolerate it. He requested the City supply him with a full report on how the decision to place a no trespass warning on Coach Timmons came to be and he would like it within two weeks. He also suggested Council look into the method used to serve the no trespass warning. He has encouraged Coach Timmons to contact the State Attorney and the Department of Justice for review as well. He is concerned that Mr. Williams' position with the City has added significant liability to the taxpayers and this Council. He would be reminded that he is a civil servant and can be replaced. Soon little league will be working to get a new contract. He will request a copy of that contract and he will hire an attorney to review it. If it allows any control by the City in any way outside the normal little league rulebook he will drive the contract to headquarters in Williamsport, Pennsylvania and recommend they revoke the Charter. Does he want the kids here to loose out playing little league baseball, no but they will play little league baseball or the City can have the program back as far as he is concerned. Page 3 of 30 Council Regular Meeting July 2,2007 ~ o o Carol Ann Stoughton, 2740 Evergreen Drive, stated this is just a part of what is going on in this town with intimidation. It is so sad to have found out that the City employees who tend to the beautification of our town and ride tractors and pick up trash are being intimidated by the City Manager for taking breaks. Breaks of which they have taken for years that she has lived here. Mr. Williams has taken the opportunity to step away from his desk when he has people in charge who know rightfully well what their men are doing and where they are taking breaks. He went and called up their boss and said he wanted them fired immediately. She asked City Manager Williams if he takes a break or if anyone else in City Hall takes a break. These men have worked for this town with at least five times less salary then he earns picking up trash in the heat. She informed Mr. Williams she didn't know where he thought he was going with intimidating these poor men. They are wonderful men. She suggested he tend to the business he was hired for and look into ways to bring in industry or business into our town. Not spend his time intimidating the poor people that work so hard in this town who don't even make $20,000 a year. She feels he owes those boys an apology and he told them if he finds out one more time that they took two or three extra minutes on their break they are going to be fired. She stated they are living day-to- day wondering what Mr. Williams is going to get on them. She informed him he started from the bottom and shame on him. Lisa Delaney, 151 May Street, Oak Hill, stated she has an eight year old son that played little league this year. Her son has suffered from post traumatic stress disorder since he was a year old. They ended up moving from Maryland to Florida from his severely abusive father who tortured him for four and a half years. When they moved here two years ago her son would not talk to a stranger or look at a stranger. If he was approached by a stranger especially a man he would turn his head and start crying. Last year her son played baseball and hated it. This year he had Coach Eddie and this man has done wonders for her son. She knows some men feel threatened by Eddie because he is such a good man but she thinks it is a shame because what he has done for her son, her son has come out of his shell. Her son is an excellent baseball player now and her son was upset when Eddie wasn't allowed on the field any more because of the trespass warrant. She thinks it is a shame because it is like all of these adults are playing Page 4 of 30 Council Regular Meeting July 2, 2007 ;. ~ o o games. The kids are the ones that suffer. Her son in particular because she brought her son here from another state to start over again and to give him a chance. He has found an excellent role model who also is an excellent coach and does not intimidate children. It is the adults, especially quite a few men that have a problem with self- esteem that Eddie seems to be a threat to. She feels the whole thing is disgusting. Robert McIntosh Jr., 2921 Sabal Palm Drive, thanked the staff for their efforts in compiling and presenting their recommendations on June 25th. He asked if there would be a follow up discussion on these proposals. The final outcome and debate is not over and according to the recent newsletter taxes may be rolled back 35 percent rather than the recommendations maximum of 30% which leaves a 5% additional cut to be made. He has many questions to ask about the line items in individual departments, which couldn't possibly be completed in three minutes. The Finance Department whose greatest duties seem to encompass the collection, billing and disbursement of funds collected for water & sewer. Their payroll is paid from the General Fund budget. However there were some comments that they are taking money from the Water & Sewer Fund to optimize the General Fund. Why not? They have a Department that is doing the work. Additionally under the Finance Department the assets list a total of 150 personal computers. There are only 224 employees in the whole City. That means 67% of the employee have a personal computer supplied by their tax dollars. He hasn't looked into the phone system, Nextel usage, etc. He isn't an accountant but he can add too many PC's. Another area he briefly looked at was the repetition of equipment between the Street and Leisure Departments. They list 21 tractors and lawn mowers. The two departments combined only have 12 employees and four supervisors that do the grass cutting. This does not include larger operating equipment. While the parks and some streets look nice, he feels this is too much equipment. There are many line items that need to be looked at one by one. He requested additional open forum type workshops be scheduled and held as soon as possible in order for the citizens input to be heard while the new budget is being prepared. He asked if the departments have the preparatory figures in place already to go ahead and implement the 30% reduction in the budget. He stated the references and graphs of the comparisons of many of the "similar" cities are very deceiving. Most of the cities Page 5 of 30 Council Regular Meeting July 2,2007 # o o using the comparison have some particular glaring difference. They all have commercial and industrial bases, which dwarf the cities by ten times, may even 100 times. He suggested they look ahead and plan for more industry by allowing them to build what they need to accomplish their goals. Dominic Capri a , 606 Topside Circle, asked when the budget meeting is coming up. Councilwoman Rhodes informed him they have a workshop on the 27th. The reason he got up was because he is hearing the 30%, which he feels is a lot of money. He feels there is quite a bit of fat in the budget that they can talk about. He is hoping at the workshop that the public will be allowed to get up and speak on it without a three minute time, which he feels will not be sufficient enough to do what has got to be done. He feels there are a lot of things he thinks the public wants to talk about. He commented on the legislature saying they have to reduce 7%. He feels 30% would be great. He isn't looking for 30% but he is looking for more than 7%. Councilwoman Rhodes thought they asked for 9% and the Council's goal is 10%. Linda Small, 1629 Willow Oak Drive, stated Volusia Tax Reform. It is her understanding that the difference between the 2006 tax revenue income to the City verses 2007 is 5.7% based on new construction and taxable properties, residential and commercial. That represents a reduction in income of approximately $325,000 to $330,000. The annual debt payment for ParkTowne, which they are now selling is $345,000. Councilwoman Rogers stated $350,000. City Manager Williams informed her $505,000. Ms. Small stated they are kind of ahead of this game because they only have to reduce by $330,000 and they are ahead by $505,000 that was in the budget for the debt payment, which they now don't have to make. City Manager Williams stated this was an item they would be taking action on later tonight. They can't officially say ParkTowne has been sold. Ms. Small clarified by using the $505,000 annual debt payment figure, which goes away with the potential sale of ParkTowne. They are only between 2006 and 2007 getting $330,000 less than they did last year. Potentially they are in the $200,000 ahead of the program neighborhood. Page 6 of 30 Council Regular Meeting July 2,2007 ,. o o Ms. Small informed Mr. Capria that public input at a workshop is not necessarily something they are going to get. She thought the Mayor could decide if that is appropriate or not. Sometimes it is and sometimes it isn't. Ms. Small then asked for an update on the status of the animal shelter project and let them know if any funds required for the animal shelter are going to be coming from the General Fund, whether that be in the building of the shelter or the operation of the shelter, whether that is architectural design services, anything that is going to be outside of the $500,000 bond and coming from the General Fund, she would appreciate it if they would let her know. Andy Anderson, 1730 pine Tree Drive, stated they seem to be a City who love animals. They have passed a resolution where they are going to build a shelter for them for a half a million dollars. He is an animal lover. To his knowledge there is no law in the City about taking dogs around in the back of pick up trucks loose. He asked if that was correct. Police Chief Taves informed him they have to be tethered. Mr. Anderson was concerned about this. He saw a dog being dragged behind a pickup truck not too long ago and the guy driving the truck didn't even know he was off the back. He yelled at him. Had he not he would have probably driven another mile or so before he found out. When he stopped the dog was a bloody mess. He must have broken every bone in his body. He would like to see a law enacted in this City to prohibit animals, particularly dogs, from being carried around in the back of pickups. He asked if this was possible. Vice Mayor Vincenzi informed him that is something they can talk about. Councilwoman Lichter stated unhappily there are children back there too. Mr. Anderson stated he sees a lot of that too and that shouldn't happen. He feels when the police see this kind of thing, it shouldn't be allowed. They should be stopped and ticketed. There is no excuse for that. He told the gentleman who was going to put the dog in the back again to put the dog in the cab of the truck and take him to the nearest vet. Councilwoman Lichter stated the man was very remorseful and very upset. He loved that animal. They are aware of that situation. It was an unusual happening. She felt dogs should be tied if Page 7 of 30 Council Regular Meeting July 2, 2007 J o o they are in the back and they aren't always. Mr. Anderson felt if they just said no dogs or kids in the back of pickup trucks in this City that that would cure it. Maybe the leadership of this City can do something about that by enacting a law where this would be prohibited it would make a lot of people happy. Mike Visconti, 316 Pine Breeze Drive, wanted to discuss the mention made a couple of meetings back by Mr. Capria about Mr. Visconti signing the petition for the 35-foot height limit. He is one of the citizens that made a mistake doing that. Mr. Visconti then commented on Mr. Anderson's comment about his small time contractor and that is why he is for builders. He is for Edgewater. Mr. Visconti read a prepared statement. He was reading the Hometown News and in there was an ad from ECARD, which said Edgewater Citizens make your voice heard. Say no to more congested roads, more water problems, more loss of natural habitat, 9,500 more homes, save our quality of life, sign the petition. He made a few phone calls and this is typical of ECARD's approach to convince the citizens of Edgewater to sign the petition. The petition has to do with housing development west of 1-95. The developer is planning 9,800 homes and plans to set aside 43% of the land for natural habitat. There will be shopping centers, other services will be planned and developed. A city within a city. There will be little need for the residents of this community to drive to Edgewater and cause any traffic problems or like Edgewater residents. They will have the opportunity to go shopping there instead. Why these residents need to come to Florida Shores, which is totally residential and where else there is no central business district or malls or any places for the new residents to come to. Traveling to the beach would not impact the City at all. ECARD wants a developer limiting homes to 260 from 9,800. He feels this is ridiculous. One home on twenty acres or more. Is this good for Edgewater? He commented on the revenue 9,800 homes would bring to Edgewater. Edgewater needs to do what is best for Edgewater. The City is in financial crisis. Why turn away this kind of good thing. He begged the citizens not to sign this petition. Dot Carlson, 1714 Edgewater Drive, stated they are running that petition. There was nothing wrong with the ad. She Page 8 of 30 Council Regular Meeting July 2,2007 # Q o paid for it. Actually it was an in-kind from her husband who printed a booklet. They are moving ahead with it. People are aware of what they are doing. They are all suddenly aware of what is going out there. They are also aware of what is on the land. She has been on it four times. Whatever is on it now was on it when it was in the County. It hasn't changed. They have the survey that was done by the Marshall group and it was undevelopable then and the land hasn't changed. She isn't trying to shut down any businesses. She doesn't see any businesses going out there. She spoke about getting bedrooms out there that will be sitting on top of the wells that they have to drink. Everything going in the land is going in the river. Right now according to St. Johns we do have a clean section of the Indian River Lagoon. We have to keep it that way. They are moving ahead with the petition and she is adamant about it. There are a lot of people that have put a lot of time and money into it. Larue Merson, 206 Oak Branch Drive, commented on Coach Timmons. She didn't know Coach Timmons prior to this year. Her eight-year-old son was fortunate enough to get on his team. She was in awe from day one. She didn't miss a practice or a game. This man has a talent beyond belief. She was in awe at what he did for the kids. He not only teaches them the sport. He has this wonderful knowledge and ability to teach. He is teaching them morals and values and respect for your family, patriotism. She can't say enough good. If they lost Coach Eddie in this community, the children would be at a loss. She couldn't believe what has happened to him. It is so unfair. The City of Edgewater owes him an apology big time. She can't say enough good for him. She went to every practice and every game and he did nothing wrong. He did nothing but good for all of the children. She feels the coaches who don't care for him have a problem. He isn't doing anything wrong. She feels it is a little bit of jealousy and maybe doubt in their manhood. It is ridiculous. They ought to get over it, give the man an apology and get on with little league. William Glasser, 1703 Needle Palm Drive, commented on the fold out map in the back of the Comprehensive Plan that shows the property west of 1-95 as recharge area. He read an article in the News Journal about two young ladies on Mango Tree that ride their bikes and skate on the street having to get off the street for traffic. Several months Page 9 of 30 Council Regular Meeting July 2,2007 ; o o ago he believed there were some folks on India Palm that were requesting stop signs or speed bumps because of the speeding traffic on India Palm. Last October he asked a question about why a lot of these subdivisions like Meadow Lake and Majestic Oaks, which have sidewalks have a 20 or 25 mile an hour speed limit and Florida Shores, which has no sidewalks has a 30-mile an hour speed limit. He stated Chapter 17 of the Code of Ordinances, which is Traffic, Article I, Section 17-2 Speed Limits generally. The maximum speed of motor vehicles allowable on all the streets within the City with the exception of u.S. #1 and Riverside Drive shall be 25 miles per hour unless otherwise posted. He again asked why Florida Shores that doesn't have sidewalks has a 30 mile per hour speed limit when most of the other streets in the City whether they have sidewalks or not is 20 or 25 miles per hour. City Manager Williams agreed to do some research. He didn't know why the speed limit was posted in the Shores at 30 miles per hour. Councilwoman Rhodes stated probably because when it was posted there wasn't anything in the Shores. Debra Atamitz, 304 S. U.S. #1, stated she has an eleven- year-old son that Eddie has been coaching for the last five years. He also coaches basketball, soccer, and football. There is a waiting list for Eddie to be their coach. All the children want Eddie. There have been a lot of problems with this little league also backing up with soccer and basketball. There have been a lot of false accusations against Eddie and nobody has bothered actually investigating it to see what the problems were. Eddie's reputation is being dragged through the mud along with the trespass warrant that went on. It has affected a lot of children and a lot of families, including Eddie's family. Something needs to be done along with the rest of the parents that are involved. Eddie is being accused of things he did not do. There are people out there doing things that aren't accused at all. Something needs to be done so the kids can continue having a coach that knows the different games, how to treat the children properly. He hasn't done anything wrong with the children. They all learn the sports, as well as values and morals and the proper way to treat young ladies. Eddie teaches them a lot of good. He doesn't teach them anything that is disrespectful. Investigations need to be done properly. They are still waiting to hear what the reasons were for Page 10 of30 Council Regular Meeting July 2,2007 ~ o (.) the trespass warrant. They need to have answers to that problem. 5. CITY COUNCIL REPORTS Councilwoman Rogers stated the one item that seems to be on everyone's mind is property taxes. They do have a workshop on the 27th. She wanted to mention that they have some severe issues that aren't just the City. You have to look at the TRIM notices. Citizens need to look at Volusia County. They need to go to the Hospital meetings and all the other meetings, not just the City. They are going to pick through it. She is looking through it. What they are paying here in millage is right at what they are paying Volusia County and what are they doing for us. Everyone has heard her screaming about she wants a price of what it would cost to provide Fire and Police to the City from Volusia County. On the flip side of that, she wants to know what Volusia County provides for us. They need to start dissecting that. She again encouraged the citizens to go to the other meetings. They need that as much if not more than what they need within the City as far as getting the millage down. The problem they have is statewide as everyone realizes. She doesn't believe the Save Our Homes and what they are going to be voting on in January is going to solve it. It is going to continue until they get to the real crux of it. The real crux to her is why the property taxes were generated in the first place. They were generated to pay for services the citizens need based upon population for the most part. Why aren't they paying a property tax based upon the number of members in a household? It seems pretty simple to her. Why aren't they looking at that? They can't but they have a lot of people that are coming in and sending a lot of e-mails. Why aren't they hitting the State and letting them know they still don't have it right. Maybe the City can ban together and go to the State and start beating their heads. If they start realizing they should be paying a tax based upon the usage of those services based upon the number of people in a house rather than just the value of a house. She feels they shouldn't be paying based upon the value. Councilwoman Rhodes commented on a six-page e-mail she read from someone in the Utilities Department. She is so ashamed that the Water Department and the Sewer Department, Utility Department and all employees in this City during the hurricanes, what they did was truly heroic. Page 11 of30 Council Regular Meeting July 2, 2007 ~ (.) o Many cities had water problems. We had none. The reason we had none was because people were slaving around the clock, during and after the hurricane. They had people going to the lift stations with generators to keep them running so people could flush their toilets. It is huge. She is really ashamed that she didn't know it for one thing. She was never told. There are many unsung heroes in the City in every department. They do a job, most of them except for Fire & Police that you don't see. If they were gone you would truly miss them and you would be truly surprised on how dependent you are on all of them. She said thank you. She wanted the employees to know she appreciates the job they do. She has always said they are the City's biggest assets. Whatever budget constraints come, whatever tax reform occurs, they can be assured she will be fighting for them. It might not be the popular thing to do but she will do it anyway. Councilwoman Lichter stated in a way she is sorry coach Eddie and his team of supporters have walked out. She thoroughly deeply believes this should be investigated. She has gotten two sides to the story. She hasn't made these decisions but she will say she has known Jack Corder for fifteen years and there probably isn't a fairer person. After the Veterans Day ceremony she went back to the Veterans Hall and there were a few parents that said other things. She doesn't know. She hasn't been to the games lately. As a kindergarten teacher she has always felt little league is best for a little bit older kids where they can take and handle the competition that is involved in little league. For the younger ones, they need to experiment with the games and the skills themselves. Too much pressure is put on young children in this day and age. She believes in all fairness to this man who is worshipped by some. people and others who said he did a few things that they should thoroughly investigate it. No one's reputation should be damned to hell for something they don't have a thorough investigation about. Councilwoman Lichter commented on utilities. She stated she has done fifty years in local politics. She doesn't have to go out and figure every fact and figure. When they think about spending time looking into the thought of having the utilities commission take over our most precious fluid gold, water, she can't tolerate that. That is a bargaining point for them. That is important. It is a way in the future to cooperate with other cities. She doesn't Page 12 of 30 Council Regular Meeting July 2, 2007 . o o have to look at the figures for that. Just like when they were looking outside to see if they should keep our local trash men and they were looking for something that might cost two cents less. She received 2,000 petitions from the citizens to keep our local trash men. Councilwoman Lichter then commented on a water meeting she attended at the Agricultural Center. It had to do with growth and development. The one thing that is affected most or could be is water. She spoke about the Indian River being clean. In actuality by National and State standards it isn't that clean. There are still problems. She commented on ways she learned that developers can help. She stated the main thing is that in a development like they are talking about west of 1-95 that the water not all go to one place but should go back into the ground. Edgewater happens to be a City that has always cared about water conservation but there is still more they can do. Councilwoman Lichter commented on discussion they had about farmlands at the meeting she attended and farmers finding creative ways to make their land profitable. All in all it was an excellent workshop. Vice Mayor Vincenzi stated he had a few comments about some things that have been said. As far as the animal shelter, there will be total accountability. They will know where the money is being spent. He was sure it would be acceptable. Vice Mayor Vincenzi then commented on tax reductions. He has always tried to push for the city and departments to try and find where they can cut expenses so you can lower taxes. Just because the City is not going to be getting hit with this big tax cut this year as was anticipated or feared, first of all it doesn't mean you should stop looking for ways to cut and it doesn't mean you won't get hit hard next year. In January when the people have to vote on more severe actions that will affect all cities in Florida, that is when people have to be worried. If some of the proposals do pass, they are going to see cities scrambling to find out where they can cut back and what they need to do to maintain services with the money that has been taken away if these initiatives pass. Vice Mayor Vincenzi commented on a few e-mails he has received about the utilities and other services that are Page 13 of30 Council Regular Meeting July 2, 2007 i o o paid for by user fees and why they are picking on utilities and utility employees when tax dollars don't affect their budgets. As far as he is concerned it is the responsibility of everybody up there to find ways to reduce costs in all departments. Just because property taxes don't pay for those operations, you are still paying for it through user fees. If you can find ways to reduce costs and maintain services that means your fees get reduced as well. If you don't want to reduce fees and you don't want to pay less for the same services, that is okay with him. He would like to investigate what the possibilities are and do what needs to be done in order to stop costs and fees from rising whenever possible. vice Mayor Vincenzi then commented on little league. He wished the group had stayed. There are two sides to every story. Mr. Timmons supposedly was observed behaving inappropriately at games. Complaints were made. The little league board didn't do what the City thought they should do and the City took action. That resulted in a trespass warrant being placed against Mr. Timmons telling him not to show up on City property. The little league board met the next Wednesday and they voted to place restrictions on Mr. Timmons in exchange for the City rescinding the trespass warrant, which the City did. Whether those actions were justified or not, that is a matter of opinion. He spoke to people that were offended by his actions. He hasn't been to any games so he didn't know what he did or didn't do. He has also heard the other side of the story through Mr. Timmons' e-mails and through supporters. He has experienced complaints about Mr. Timmons in other areas such as basketball and he has seen what he does at basketball games. Some think it is appropriate, some don't. He feels Mr. Timmons is a very passionate individual that loves sports and competition. Overall he is a good person but he gets carried away sometimes. You can't get carried away the way he does at these games. If a regular parent got carried away the way he does, they would be asked to leave. He has seen it happen. Just because there is a difference of opinion, nobody thinks he is a bad individual but he needs to control himself. There are two sides to each story. He has his side and the City has their side. The little league board that was in place at the time took action to force Mr. Timmons not to coach the rest of this season and next year and will allow him to come back on a probationary period the following year. If he comes back and coaches, Page 14 of30 Council Regular Meeting July 2,2007 i o o he has to control himself and behave properly. They agreed to it and the City is happy with it. That is where it stands right now. He didn't understand why they weren't happy with it. 6. CONSENT AGENDA A. Declaration of Covenants and Restrictions - authorizing the Mayor to execute the documents relating to properties the City purchased through the Hazard Mitigation Grant Program, which are located at 135 Wildwood Avenue and 120 West Pine Bluff Street Fire Chief Tracey Barlow made a staff presentation. Councilwoman Rhodes asked about the recreational use of the land and what Fire Chief Barlow foresees as recreational in a flood area. Fire Chief Barlow stated it could be used for a park that couldn't be used if there was standing water there. They could put a pavilion there or playground equipment but they wouldn't be able to build any permanent structures that would be prone to flood or prevent natural water drainage into that area. It has to stay open green space area. Councilwoman Rhodes moved to accept the Consent Agenda, second by Councilwoman Lichter. The MOTION CARRIED 4 - 0 . 7. PUBLIC HEARINGS, ORDINANCES AND RESOLUTIONS There were no Public Hearings, Ordinances or Resolutions to be discussed at this time. 8. BOARD APPOINTMENTS There were no Board Appointments to be discussed at this time. 9. OTHER BUSINESS A. Sale of ParkTowne Property - Purchase and Sale Agreement and Addendums submitted by MGM Real Estate Group, Inc. for purchase of the 831 acres of City owned property for $4.5 million and Page 15 of30 Council Regular Meeting July 2, 2007 i o o authorize the Mayor to execute all associated contract and closing documents (during the 6/18/07 meeting, this item was continued until July 2nd) City Manager Williams made a staff presentation with regard to the proposed contract for the purchase of the remaining 83i acres in ParkTowne. He went over the purchase price, road impact fee credits, relocating and identifying gopher turtles, jurisdictional wetlands, payment terms, buyer costs, and seller costs. City Manager Williams then went over the benefits to the City as it relates to the contract. City Manager Williams stated staff would like Council to approve the counter proposal and authorize the Mayor to execute upon the acceptance of MGM Real Estate Group Inc. Councilwoman Lichter stated she thought the original price was more than $55,000. She asked if it was $60,000 and what happened. City Manager Williams informed her the Council back in January established a minimum price of $55,000 per acre or $4.5 million. Councilwoman Lichter stated that was minimum. What happened to the original thought of $60,OOO? City Manager Williams stated it wasn't a consideration. This is what the gentleman brought forward in an offer. Based off of Council's decision, that is why this item is before them. Councilwoman Lichter commented on the wetlands situation and asked what might be permitted in wetlands. City Manager Williams stated they would suggest to Council the impact fee credits of $770,000 and striking number 4 from the proposal. Councilwoman Lichter asked if there is a third possibility for the turtle relocation? She mentioned all the turtles that are on the dirt road where the shelter is located. City Manager Williams stated a lot of that is dependent upon suitable habitat and they could certainly explore that. Councilwoman Rogers stated the first thing that concerns her is no interest. Time value of money. Not just that, but no interest and then in the end leaving the City with an obligation to pay $184,000. She understands they have advantages in other areas but she feels they need to pull them back across the table. No interest and they have to Page 16 of30 Council Regular Meeting July 2,2007 o o come out with money. Going to closing and they have to bring the check. She doesn't like that. She didn't like the idea of this being advertised at $4.5 million because that was their break-even point and didn't leave them any room. Since they originally wanted to go with the $60,000 per acre and they are at $55,000, she feels they need to negotiate more on interest and what they are going to have to come to the table with. She feels they shouldn't have to come to the table with anything. Councilwoman Rhodes stated she doesn't like no interest either. She is not opposed to the City holding the mortgage or giving them an interest rate lower than what they can get at a bank but some interest certainly. She used the FEMA money as an example. City Manager Williams informed the Council they have an obligation to build the road that they have delayed for at least two years at this point, which they have some exposed liability. Facing the pending property tax reform, the competition they have, he didn't know the answer was necessarily for the City to go out and enter into more debt of which he believed Council has identified as not wanting to do. Councilwoman Rogers stated unless they got debt with no interest. Councilwoman Rhodes stated they got ParkTowne with no interest. City Manager Williams informed her that was something else he was going to bring up. Keeping all those issues in mind, he asked that Council consider the counter proposal and the possibility of the delays that come out of that and the consequences of those delays. This is the only player that has come to the table at this point with an offer. It may not be the most attractive but at least it accomplishes quite a few things. He asked Council to be conscience and cognoscente of those issues he has just identified. Councilwoman Lichter asked City Manager Williams if he felt it might be a good thing to talk to the Economic Development Board to get some thoughts from them. City Manager Williams informed her they could do that but those are all delays. Councilwoman Rhodes felt they should have done that before now. City Manager Williams stated this is a goal that has been identified by Council. He commented on a gentleman that originally proposed $3.6 million and the Council turned it down and said they would accept a minimum price of $55,000 an acre. They have these people that have come forward in a time where economically things aren't the best and provided the City with this offer. He understood there were issues and items that were of Page 17 of30 Council Regular Meeting July 2, 2007 o o question. He asked Council to factor in all the other issues they are faced with and what they are looking at in the very near future on a short term and long-term perspective. Councilwoman Rogers commented on the withholding of the $440,000, which is $55,000 per acre of the eight that they are saying they are waiting for the investigation of the jurisdictional wetlands. She doesn't like that. Councilwoman Rhodes informed her City Manager Williams is trading off the impact fee credits. He is going to give them more. He is going to give them $770,000 instead of $425,000, which makes number 4 go away. Councilwoman Rhodes stated the point of item 4 is if it does turn out to be wetlands that can't be built on and we have to give them back the money then they still own it. If they give back the money, the City needs to own it. If they aren't paying for it, they don't own it. She feels City Manager Williams should go back and say they want 3% interest on the money. They can say no. The Council should give City Manager Williams an option. Councilwoman Rogers suggested they say 5%. Councilwoman Rhodes stated they could ask but then give City Manager Williams direction as to what to do if they say no. City Manager Williams stated that is exactly what he is looking for, direction. He again reminded Council to consider all the consequences. Councilwoman Lichter stated she always finds it difficult to talk business in terms when you are doing it in public with who you are going to deal with sitting in the audience. It isn't the name you sell something. They know what you are going to do next and how far you will go. The whole thing is an open book. Councilwoman Rogers stated they are going to be holding the note for half of it and that wasn't the situation in the beginning. That is making it real sweet for them because they don't have to pay points on that. City Manager Williams stated they are asking for an eighteen-month term. That is a relatively short period of time. He can go back and try to negotiate. Councilwoman Rogers stated they are doing them a favor by doing that. She feels the City is getting less from them than what they are giving to us. City Manager Williams Page 18 of30 Council Regular Meeting July 2, 2007 o o explained if Council were to decide to pass and say let's move forward with the development of this property 100% and then they will plat it, they will market it and stay in the business, which he thought the intention was from the onset. He further commented on development costs and there being no funding in place unless they go out and get additional debt. He also spoke about some of the challenges they face from an internal perspective. He commented on the goal Council has established for him to try to reduce that number, not get the City deeper in debt. Councilwoman Rhodes stated they also established a policy that they wanted to sell ParkTowne. When they got into the business of ParkTowne, the ultimate goal was to bring businesses to this City, to increase the commercial tax base. Every city does it one way or another. They offer incentives to make that happen. She feels they can go back and ask but if they won't then she would take this deal and she would mark the $184,000 up to incentive to provide commercial and industrial business in this City. They will receive it back in tax dollars and lessen the tax burden on the residents. This is her goal and her opinion. Councilwoman Rogers suggested they look at the $184,361 and then they are paying $30,000 in the recording of the deed and the doc stamps, that is $215,000. She asked City Manager Williams to ask them to meet us half way. She feels they have to get something. Vice Mayor Vincenzi asked what the intention is of the people that want to buy this property. City Manager Williams informed him they are going to develop it for commercial development. Vice Mayor Vincenzi stated the way he sees it the City is losing a net of $184,000. If they keep it, they will be tacking on additional debt. That is not desirable. If they put this land back into the hands of a private developer, hopefully he will have a little more incentive to develop it properly, sell it, build or entice companies to come in, which will achieve one of the objectives they have been trying to do for eight to ten years, which is get businesses in here and get jobs for people and increase our tax base with business properties and companies. Even though they are losing $184,000 he didn't think it was necessarily a bad deal. He thought they might want to go back and try to renegotiate a few points. Page 19 of30 Council Regular Meeting July 2, 2007 o o A gentleman in the audience pointed out the City would be losing $2 million due to having to pave the roads. Vice Mayor Vincenzi asked him how he figured that. The gentleman in the audience informed him they are paying for the road. Vice Mayor Vincenzi stated if they keep it. The gentleman stated even if they don't keep it they would be paying for the road. Vice Mayor Vincenzi stated if they keep it they have to take on debt in order to pave that road and they still have the property. They would still have the same situation they are in now. Councilwoman Rogers stated but they aren't taking on debt to pay for the road if they turn around and sell 10 acres to Edgewater Powerboats at $55,000, then they could use that to pay for the road. City Manager Williams informed her they didn't have enough money to pay for that road. Councilwoman Rhodes stated if they owe $3 million and it costs them $1.3 million for the road and they are getting $4.5 million then the road is paid for in the $4.5 million. Vice Mayor Vincenzi stated his opinion is this isn't an ideal deal but it is a decent deal the City could benefit from and try to move forward and try to get companies in here to provide jobs. He feels it is worth losing $184,000 to try to successfully do that. Councilwoman Lichter asked City Manager Williams if he had any input into this or if he saw it today for the first time. City Manager Williams stated they have talked to the potential buyer for some time and he has gone back to the drawing board and offered this as a proposal. The City countered to his original proposal, increasing the price to $60,000 an acre, which is in their packet tonight and this is what he has come back with and countered with. He feels there are many factors they have to consider such as the infrastructure and development costs. They eliminate that. He briefly commented on the expense to the City if they go out and borrow the money on the obligation they have for Base Leg and con span. There are some long-term benefits by taking this approach. Councilwoman Lichter asked if there were any things they didn't touch base on. City Manager Williams informed her they didn't discuss the interest at all. Councilwoman Lichter felt maybe with velvet gloves he could bring up that point since it has not been brought up before. City Manager Williams stated he could ask. He thought the contract specified on the property that they would begin paying interest with the prevailing rate of the State Board Page 20 of 30 Council Regular Meeting July 2, 2007 .. o o of Administration. If that is something they want him to go back and counter with is that this eighteen months it would be amortized at the prevailing rate of the SBA on the date they close. Councilwoman Lichter asked if the point came up with the wetlands if they don't pay that the City will own them. City Manager Williams stated the point of the wetlands was taken care of with the increase and road impact fee credits. Councilwoman Rhodes stated at $184,000 if that land isn't developed in nine years they get that money back without having to provide any services. It's not the best investment but the debt on this is something they cannot afford and the taxpayers don't want to pay for. They bought this land interest free for six years. They are going to have to start paying interest on it now. Councilwoman Lichter felt if they were going to have audience participation that they should identify themselves. Councilwoman Rogers stated where else are they going to buy 83 acres in a City that is looking to double the population in the next five to ten years. She feels they need to come back. She doesn't want to put out any money out at closing and go to them and say 5 or 6 percent interest and say for them to pay half of the $215,000 and then they need to push it. They need to negotiate and get something else out of this. She doesn't want the City to have to walk and pay anything. She feels it isn't good that they are coming to the City and they have us over a barrel. Call their bluff. Eighty-three acres in a City that is going to grow like we are. We are just going to walk to the closing table and pay for it and give it to them and not charge them interest. Let's say charge them interest. Let's say meet us half way. Something so they can come back. She feels they need to push it back to them one more time. Councilwoman Rhodes stated and if they say no then what do they do. Councilwoman Rogers stated they aren't going to say no. Councilwoman Rhodes informed her she hoped she was right but city Manager Williams needs to know what to do if they say no. Councilwoman Rogers stated if they say no then you walk away. Page 21 of30 Council Regular Meeting July 2, 2007 o o Vice Mayor Vincenzi opened the meeting up for public comments. The following citizens spoke: Carol Ann Stoughton, 2740 Evergreen Drive, stated from the start this was a folly. Now they want to give away the land for $2 million less then what it is really worth. She feels what should have been happening all along was instead of spending $5,000 for a survey to see the vision of where the City is going to go, they should be advertising to other States and cities and many realtors to tell them what the City has to offer. We have the ball in our court. When they buy the package, they buy it wetlands or not and they have to adhere to the rules of the road. She asked how many other people City Manager Williams has solicited here in his job as City Manager to try to find other people who are interested. There is only one. buyer. There are many more out there. They have to advertise. What goes on here, is we are giving it away. They are going to take the land and sell it. They are in business to make money. Evidently, the City isn't. They sell the whole package and get rid of the City's debt. This has been a debacle from day one. It was mismanaged in management before. They never should have been in the business of putting in an industrial park. Councilwoman Rogers is totally right. She is an accountant and knows what is going on. Listen to her. You charge interest. Since when did you ever go anywhere and not pay interest. For once in your life save the taxpayers some money and handle this right. Don't vote it down their throats now. Go for the best buck. Andy Anderson, 1730 Pine Tree Drive, asked if the City plans to handle this transaction themselves or are they going to get some pros in to handle the sale of this property? City Manager Williams informed him they have legal representation and so forth. Mr. Anderson stated how about some professional land dealers that have a lot of expertise over the years. Why wouldn't you want to incorporate them and bring them into the picture and let them handle it professionally? He suggested they get some professional people that know how to handle these kinds of deals. Mr. Anderson asked if they are still paying $330,000 a year for fifteen years on debt service for the land in ParkTowne. City Manager Williams stated he didn't know Page 22 of 30 Council Regular Meeting July 2,2007 . o o where that number was coming from. They have $250,000 proposed for the development of the Base Leg Drive and Driveway A, which at 15 years is estimated 6% interest. That is $250,000. That $330,000 was probably talked about during the budget process nine months ago he believed didn't materialize into anything. If they pass on this deal they are going to go out and have to get debt at whatever the prevailing rate is going to be. They will add that debt to the $505,000. Right now they pay annually 505,000 just on the purchase of the property. They will have to get debt to fulfill those obligations or they will potentially find themselves in another lawsuit and be forced to do it some time in the future. Vice Mayor Vincenzi stated the Council agreed to do that and pave those roads and they are obligated to do it. It's not a question of are you obligated or not. You are now. Dominic Capri a , 606 Topside Circle, asked why the developer couldn't pay for the roads. When the developer came into their development, the people paid for the roads, not the City. Mr. Capria stated as far as the debt as he remembers they are paying $315,000 for 15 years. Mike Visconti, 316 Pine Breeze Drive, stated he didn't understand people saying they need professional people to runt his City. He asked if they have professional people here. He feels the City has professional people and they are running the City and he gave them credit for what they are doing for the City. Right or wrong you make a decision. When you make a decision that is the right decision. Linda Small, 1629 Willow Oak Drive, stated this goes against everything she believes in as a businesswoman to say what she is saying right now. At some point they have to say they screwed up. We have to say government should never compete with the private sector in the supply side management. They did it. They shouldn't have done it. They have got a bird in hand. She commented on the economic figures. It could be a long time before they get another bird in hand. Councilwoman Rogers doesn't feel the developer will walk away over $100,000. Ms. Small stated why would he agree to Page 23 of 30 Council Regular Meeting July 2, 2007 " . o o it. They have already told the world to take whatever he give us. They have lost every bit of negotiating power they ever had. Somebody out there is going oh joy I've got the number. They need to approve this. Get this mess out of our laps and move on with it. It's not great but they have got one in the pocketbook. Just do it and move on. They can't move out of ParkTowne and into the rest of their lives until they sell it. Councilwoman Rhodes agreed. Ted Cooper, 3028 Mango Tree Drive, stated he sees good and he sees bad. What he sees is they are giving a lot of revenue away. He understands that that is their lure for getting this deal. He feels they are giving a ton away. It seems like when they get down to the bottom line $3,033,000. They are only getting $2.5 million that they are going to pay up front. They want them to hold the mortgage with no interest for another $2.5 million that they will get paid maybe later at some other date. They still have debt. It seems like they need to negotiate a little better deal. He agreed a bird in hand is better than anything else but they have to be able to do a little bit better. They are looking at only $184,000. That is not true. They are only getting $2.5 million and then they are getting the rest later at no interest and then they gave away $770,000 in revenue. They are giving away the stars. He agreed a bird in hand is tough to walk away from but he feels they could negotiate a little better. Councilwoman Rhodes stated they really can't negotiate any better because like Ms. Small said they know and they have to do it in public. Councilwoman Rogers stated where else are they going to buy something below appraised value. Councilwoman Lichter feels in this case the deed is done. She feels nothing wrong with the concept of the industrial park. She just feels they shouldn't have been in the realtor business. Somebody else should have handled it. She feels City Manager Williams has a few pointers to push gently on a little bit. She feels a bird in hand is awful important to get out from under it. City Manager Williams stated they could go back and address those issues and ask them. If at the end of the day he comes back and says he isn't interested is this the contract that Council wants him to pursue. He would like Page 24 of 30 Council Regular Meeting July 2,2007 .. j o o to ask Council to approve the counter proposal and authorize the Mayor to execute the contract upon acceptance of MGM Real Estate Group Inc. Councilman Vincenzi asked when this would be back before the Council. City Manager Williams informed him if they approve it as they are talking about tonight he will go back and make the counter proposals to him. If he says no he is going to agree to what they have before them tonight. The Mayor will execute it and it will go forward. The next item before Council would be the award of Base Leg Drive and Driveway A, which is of extreme importance. Councilwoman Lichter stated they agree in principle. They agree generally. There are a few fine points City Manager Williams may want to go over with him. In general, she agrees. That is qualifying her acceptance. City Manager Williams stated based on the discussion, felt he had direction. If they want to approve the contract with the language they have talked about, it get any worse than this. He will go back and work on negotiating some of those points they have addressed. at the end of the day it doesn't work that is what it be. That is Council's decision. he won't If will Councilwoman Rhodes made a motion to accept this contract and authorize the Mayor to execute said contract after City Manager Williams has spoken to MGM Real Estate Group, Inc. She encouraged City Manager Williams to do the best he can to get more but if this is the bottom line then she would approve this. She would make a motion to approve this as the bottom line, second by Councilwoman Lichter. The MOTION CARRIED 3-1. Councilwoman Roqers voted NO. 10. OFFICER REPORTS A. City Clerk City Clerk Wadsworth had nothing at this time. B. City Attorney City Attorney Ciocchetti had nothing at this time. C. City Manager Williams Page 25 of 30 Council Regular Meeting July 2, 2007 , '" o o .. City Manager Williams had nothing at this time. 1) Tentative Agenda Items There were no Tentative Agenda Items to be discussed at this time. Councilwoman Rhodes asked Fire Chief Barlow to tell them where they can park for the July 4th festivities. Fire Chief Barlow stated at the New Smyrna/Edgewater Cemetery and the corner of Lamont and u.s. #1, the vacant lot across from the church. Councilwoman Rhodes stated they are having a barbeque there. Fire Chief Barlow stated they are having a barbeque but they have secured an agreement with the landowner of that field prior to the barbeque being advertised. 11. CITIZEN COMMENTS The following citizens spoke: Mike Visconti, 316 pine Breeze Drive, stated Edgewater needs to do what is best for Edgewater. The City is in financial crisis. Why turn away this kind of good. He begged them not to sign another ridiculous petition. Let the elected officials do what they hired them to do and not tie their hands again and again. Where would the citizens of Edgewater be if there was no Florida Shores, Meadow Lake, San Remo, Edgewater Landing. They wouldn't be here. Let's look forward to a bright community instead of a stagnant one. They have done a lot to improve and beautify the City. Let's keep improving and not go backwards. Let Edgewater flourish. Vote no. Mr. Visconti wished everyone a Happy 4th of July. He suggested next year for the 4th of July that they have a parade and celebrate Independence Day the way it should be celebrated with community involvement, parades, boy scouts and girl scouts, school bands, guest speakers, patriotic concerts and all this to make our country the great country it is. Let's celebrate it where the founding fathers what they did and all the wars that were fought and for the freedom we have today. Page 26 of 30 Council Regular Meeting July 2,2007 i .., o o - Carol Ann Stoughton, 2740 Evergreen Drive, thanked Councilwoman Rogers for doing what was right and voting no. The other three she wouldn't have expected anything else because they got the City into this mess in the first place. One bird in a bush. They should have a lot more. They approved something that they don't even know what they are getting. We are going to end up still owning land in there. The Land should be sold and let go and they should be making a profit on it. She informed City Manager Williams she thought the City was still in debt for $43 million. They were in debt for $315,000 per year for 15 years on this debacle. Will that loan be paid off when this is allover with or will they still have that debt to pay for? It is a sad state of affairs. They do need a change in government. City Manager Williams stated when you look at the debt schedule for the General Fund it is broken out by that transaction closing it would probably represent about a 30% reduction in the overall debt that is on the books for the General Fund for this year. Quite significant. Bob McIntosh, 2921 Sabal Pam Drive, stated if anyone here doesn't think the growth isn't coming to this area with our without Edgewater, they are sadly mistaken. Look around at the other cities in this County and State. You can't stop growth forever. It will swallow us up and we will be scrambling to survive with a plan that is too little too late. The key now is to have a great plan in place and control it. Why many believe height limitations are the answer, he does not. He asked how many lawsuits are already being initiated or have been served. Keeping business out of the city is not the answer. There are many industries out there that can be conducive to our climate and area. He commented on the many things he feels the City has to offer. He commented on people being worried about fresh water and solving that problem with a desalinization plant on the river. He commented on there being federal grants available. He commented on actively pursuing this project now in conjunction with the other cities, the County and St. Johns Water Management, and local colleges to help keep the cost down. He then commented on new technology called water theaters, which he feels will be our future. They can help themselves and sell to others if they act now. Page 27 of 30 Council Regular Meeting July 2,2007 '\ . o o . Linda Small, 1629 Willow Oak Drive, stated you are damned if you do and you are damned if you don't. Vice Mayor Vincenzi stated every time. Ms. Small stated for every house in this City there is an opinion on how the City should be run. Most of them here come to every meeting and feel like it is their job for the Council to do what they want them to do, to heck with everybody else. She told the Council they were doing a good job. It was a tough evening. Ms. Small stated as much as she appreciates Vice Mayor Vincenzi's attempt to answer her question earlier about the animal shelter, it really didn't. She asked if any cost associated with the building and operating of the animal shelter will be coming out of the general Fund. City Manager Williams stated with Council's action they took with setting this service up as an Enterprise Fund, they did specify a transfer from the General Fund to that Enterprise Fund to help pay for the animal control officers' expense. That is what they have identified once they make that transition to an Enterprise Fund. Currently it is funded 100% out of the General Fund. In October they will make that transition. Councilwoman Lichter stated the animal control officers are needed whether you have a shelter or not. Ms. Small asked what the annual animal shelter control officer obligation from the General Fund outside of the $500,000 bond. City Manager Williams estimated $59,000. Their intention over time with it being an Enterprise Fund is that that transfer will start working off of that. Andy Anderson, 1730 Pine Tree Drive, stated he still thinks they should use a professional land transactor to handle this business with ParkTowne. If they are worried about the commission, that is negotiable. If you get a good man to handle it they would be a lot of better off than trying to do it themselves. The Council is not professional in this area. They run the City and that is their job. They aren't realtors. They don't know. He urged them strongly to think about that. Agnes Witter, 223 Flagler Avenue, stated she was wondering how much property they started out originally in ParkTowne. When they purchased it was the 82 acres they are Page 28 of 30 Council Regular Meeting July 2, 2007 - ~ ., o o If considering selling now plus the acreage they have already sold or is it larger than that sum total. City Manager Williams informed her he didn't recall the initial amount of the acreage. He would have to go back and research that information. Ms. Witter stated when they consider the $4.5 million they are selling the 82 acres for now, what is the profit they have made off of the previous land sales. Is that being considered in the total price they paid at the time of the purchase of that property? vice Mayor Vincenzi stated he didn't think there was any profit. He thought they used the sale of the land to pay for infrastructure and improvements so it offset each other. That was the intention when they first started it. Ms. Witter asked how much of the land is Edgewater going to have left after the sale of the 82 acres to use for our benefit. Councilwoman Rhodes informed her none. Vice Mayor Vincenzi stated hopefully someone would come in and entice businesses to come in. Dot Carlson, 1714 Edgewater Drive, stated she was sorry she missed the meeting that Councilwoman Lichter attended that she spoke about earlier. Councilwoman Lichter informed her all her friends were at her table. Ms. Carlson stated they were keeping her up to date as much as she could get in touch with them and her husband kept other people up to date on her doings. She informed Councilwoman Lichter that she was right and the river isn't clean. It was cleaner. It isn't going to get cleaner. Councilwoman Lichter stated there isn't a body of water in Florida that is clean. Ms. Carlson stated she was shocked to find out that Rock Springs has had to be closed down. Desalinization is pricey. They have to think about that. Nora Gillespie, former Edgewater City Councilwoman, stated she set the CIP. She set, she bonded, she went to Tallahassee, she negotiated all the bonds for the City for the first three major CIP projects. God help you all if they don't suit anybody. One thing they did was limit everybody to speaking twice. They cut it because they were there until 2, 3 or 4 in the morning. It is going to be a joy for her. She is now the official observer for the League of Women Voters. She is enjoying it because she isn't on the hot seat. Page 29 of 30 Council Regular Meeting July 2, 2007 . ~ o o :t Vice Mayor informed her she was welcome any time. Councilwoman Lichter informed her she would be there after November with Ms. Gillespie. Ms. Stoughton, from the audience, asked what is going on with the Shuffleboard Courts. Councilwoman Rogers informed her it would be on the next agenda. 12 . ADJOURNMENT There being no further business to discuss, Councilwoman Rhodes moved to adjourn. The meeting adjourned at 8:58 p.m. Minutes submitted by: Lisa Bloomer Page 30 of 30 Council Regular Meeting July 2,2007