07-02-2007 - Regular
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CITY COUNCIL OF EDGEWATER
REGULAR MEETING
JULY 2, 2007
7:00 P.M.
COMMUNITY CENTER
MINUTES
1. CALL TO ORDER
vice Mayor Vincenzi called the Regular Meeting to order at
7:00 p.m. in the Community Center.
ROLL CALL
Mayor Michael Thomas
Councilwoman Debra Rogers
Vice Mayor Dennis Vincenzi
Councilwoman Harriet Rhodes
Councilwoman Judith Lichter
City Manager Jon Williams
City Clerk Susan Wadsworth
City Attorney Michael Ciocchetti
Excused
Present
Present
Present
Present
Present
Present
Present
INVOCATION, PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE
There was a silent invocation and pledge of allegiance to
the Flag.
2. APPROVAL OF MINUTES
A. Regular Meeting of April 16, 2007
Councilwoman Rhodes moved to approve the April 16, 2007
minutes, second by Councilwoman Lichter.
The MOTION CARRIED 4 - 0 .
B. Regular Meeting of May 7, 2007
Councilwoman Lichter moved to approve the May 7, 2007
minutes, second by Councilwoman Rogers.
The MOTION CARRIED 4 -0.
3. PRESENTATIONS/PROCLAMATIONS/PLAQUES/CERTIFICATES/DON
ATIONS
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There were no Presentations to be made at this time.
4. CITIZEN COMMENTS
The following citizens spoke:
Eddie Timmons, 304 S. U.S. #1, Oak Hill, stated he was very
concerned about some comments received to him by the
Mayor's son. He threatened him using several f based
profanities telling him the City will not renew the
contract if he is elected to the Board of Little League
during a general assembly little league meeting. He asked
if this was normal City tactics. His friend Bill also had
his name tarnished by many concerned league members about
the same issues stating if he was reelected president that
the City would not renew the contract with Little League.
He asked who is going to be held responsible? He hopes
this can be resolved and little league can remain
autonomous. He feels they need civilian committees who
manage volunteer sports organizations, which would be
separate from politicians and City government. He asked
which of the Councilmembers would initiate this
legislation. He realized little league provided private
funding, which alleviates the City of another expense.
with a committee such as this the City could focus on
maintenance and safety lighting for the beautiful fields.
He feels this is sharing the burden for giving their
children an exciting, safe and competitive sports
environment. He informed Council they have no idea what
they have done opening up a can. They have messed with him
and his family, and he was saying it as the City of
Edgewater and he believed he was referencing Mr. Williams
and the Chief of Police. There will be hell to pay. He
will deal with it legally and civilly and in whatever
manner he needs to and when he is done he will not leave
any stone unturned.
Bill Lacbenal, 3022 Vista Palm Drive, stated for 406 days
he was the Southeast Volusia Little League President. He
led a team dedicated to create recreational and competitive
baseball all in one program. The goal is to allow the
children of our community to develop skills that will allow
them to play high school ball and beyond. 1600 hours
dedicated to this effort would be a very conservative
effort. Some accomplishments, new equipment, more
practice, more games, quality uniforms, tournament and all
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star play, surpassing their fund raising goals, 297
players, and over 150 registered volunteers. The Coach
Timmons car wash raised $13,000 alone. He asked Mr.
Williams if that sounded like a failure to him. He stated
Mr. Williams said he failed little league because they did
not suspend Coach Timmons. Mr. Williams had a no trespass
warning served on Coach Timmons. This was not requested by
the league as required by the contract. Mr. Williams never
contacted him before taking this action. To his knowledge
Mr. Williams never adequately investigated the allegations
before acting. This also happened during the City ran
soccer program as well. A 16-year old referee was fired
over the soccer incident and was quickly rehired when the
parents confronted the City. During the soccer debacle,
his II-year old son was threatened by a City employee while
passing out flyers. She also threatened the little league
contract. You were e-mailed that night about first
amendment rights. Recently in a meeting with the Mayor,
Chris Thomas, Jeff Fidler and himself, Mr. Williams said
and he quoted I would hate to go to the Council and
recommend that they not renew the contract with little
league unquote. The Mayor tried to convince him this was
an isolated incident but when he asked for confirmation Mr.
Williams led him to believe he would do this again. That
is government control over a private program and he will
not tolerate it. He requested the City supply him with a
full report on how the decision to place a no trespass
warning on Coach Timmons came to be and he would like it
within two weeks. He also suggested Council look into the
method used to serve the no trespass warning. He has
encouraged Coach Timmons to contact the State Attorney and
the Department of Justice for review as well. He is
concerned that Mr. Williams' position with the City has
added significant liability to the taxpayers and this
Council. He would be reminded that he is a civil servant
and can be replaced. Soon little league will be working to
get a new contract. He will request a copy of that
contract and he will hire an attorney to review it. If it
allows any control by the City in any way outside the
normal little league rulebook he will drive the contract to
headquarters in Williamsport, Pennsylvania and recommend
they revoke the Charter. Does he want the kids here to
loose out playing little league baseball, no but they will
play little league baseball or the City can have the
program back as far as he is concerned.
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Carol Ann Stoughton, 2740 Evergreen Drive, stated this is
just a part of what is going on in this town with
intimidation. It is so sad to have found out that the City
employees who tend to the beautification of our town and
ride tractors and pick up trash are being intimidated by
the City Manager for taking breaks. Breaks of which they
have taken for years that she has lived here. Mr. Williams
has taken the opportunity to step away from his desk when
he has people in charge who know rightfully well what their
men are doing and where they are taking breaks. He went
and called up their boss and said he wanted them fired
immediately. She asked City Manager Williams if he takes a
break or if anyone else in City Hall takes a break. These
men have worked for this town with at least five times less
salary then he earns picking up trash in the heat. She
informed Mr. Williams she didn't know where he thought he
was going with intimidating these poor men. They are
wonderful men. She suggested he tend to the business he
was hired for and look into ways to bring in industry or
business into our town. Not spend his time intimidating
the poor people that work so hard in this town who don't
even make $20,000 a year. She feels he owes those boys an
apology and he told them if he finds out one more time that
they took two or three extra minutes on their break they
are going to be fired. She stated they are living day-to-
day wondering what Mr. Williams is going to get on them.
She informed him he started from the bottom and shame on
him.
Lisa Delaney, 151 May Street, Oak Hill, stated she has an
eight year old son that played little league this year.
Her son has suffered from post traumatic stress disorder
since he was a year old. They ended up moving from
Maryland to Florida from his severely abusive father who
tortured him for four and a half years. When they moved
here two years ago her son would not talk to a stranger or
look at a stranger. If he was approached by a stranger
especially a man he would turn his head and start crying.
Last year her son played baseball and hated it. This year
he had Coach Eddie and this man has done wonders for her
son. She knows some men feel threatened by Eddie because
he is such a good man but she thinks it is a shame because
what he has done for her son, her son has come out of his
shell. Her son is an excellent baseball player now and her
son was upset when Eddie wasn't allowed on the field any
more because of the trespass warrant. She thinks it is a
shame because it is like all of these adults are playing
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games. The kids are the ones that suffer. Her son in
particular because she brought her son here from another
state to start over again and to give him a chance. He has
found an excellent role model who also is an excellent
coach and does not intimidate children. It is the adults,
especially quite a few men that have a problem with self-
esteem that Eddie seems to be a threat to. She feels the
whole thing is disgusting.
Robert McIntosh Jr., 2921 Sabal Palm Drive, thanked the
staff for their efforts in compiling and presenting their
recommendations on June 25th. He asked if there would be a
follow up discussion on these proposals. The final outcome
and debate is not over and according to the recent
newsletter taxes may be rolled back 35 percent rather than
the recommendations maximum of 30% which leaves a 5%
additional cut to be made. He has many questions to ask
about the line items in individual departments, which
couldn't possibly be completed in three minutes. The
Finance Department whose greatest duties seem to encompass
the collection, billing and disbursement of funds collected
for water & sewer. Their payroll is paid from the General
Fund budget. However there were some comments that they
are taking money from the Water & Sewer Fund to optimize
the General Fund. Why not? They have a Department that is
doing the work. Additionally under the Finance Department
the assets list a total of 150 personal computers. There
are only 224 employees in the whole City. That means 67%
of the employee have a personal computer supplied by their
tax dollars. He hasn't looked into the phone system,
Nextel usage, etc. He isn't an accountant but he can add
too many PC's. Another area he briefly looked at was the
repetition of equipment between the Street and Leisure
Departments. They list 21 tractors and lawn mowers. The
two departments combined only have 12 employees and four
supervisors that do the grass cutting. This does not
include larger operating equipment. While the parks and
some streets look nice, he feels this is too much
equipment. There are many line items that need to be
looked at one by one. He requested additional open forum
type workshops be scheduled and held as soon as possible in
order for the citizens input to be heard while the new
budget is being prepared. He asked if the departments have
the preparatory figures in place already to go ahead and
implement the 30% reduction in the budget. He stated the
references and graphs of the comparisons of many of the
"similar" cities are very deceiving. Most of the cities
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using the comparison have some particular glaring
difference. They all have commercial and industrial bases,
which dwarf the cities by ten times, may even 100 times.
He suggested they look ahead and plan for more industry by
allowing them to build what they need to accomplish their
goals.
Dominic Capri a , 606 Topside Circle, asked when the budget
meeting is coming up. Councilwoman Rhodes informed him
they have a workshop on the 27th. The reason he got up was
because he is hearing the 30%, which he feels is a lot of
money. He feels there is quite a bit of fat in the budget
that they can talk about. He is hoping at the workshop
that the public will be allowed to get up and speak on it
without a three minute time, which he feels will not be
sufficient enough to do what has got to be done. He feels
there are a lot of things he thinks the public wants to
talk about. He commented on the legislature saying they
have to reduce 7%. He feels 30% would be great. He isn't
looking for 30% but he is looking for more than 7%.
Councilwoman Rhodes thought they asked for 9% and the
Council's goal is 10%.
Linda Small, 1629 Willow Oak Drive, stated Volusia Tax
Reform. It is her understanding that the difference
between the 2006 tax revenue income to the City verses 2007
is 5.7% based on new construction and taxable properties,
residential and commercial. That represents a reduction in
income of approximately $325,000 to $330,000. The annual
debt payment for ParkTowne, which they are now selling is
$345,000. Councilwoman Rogers stated $350,000. City
Manager Williams informed her $505,000. Ms. Small stated
they are kind of ahead of this game because they only have
to reduce by $330,000 and they are ahead by $505,000 that
was in the budget for the debt payment, which they now
don't have to make.
City Manager Williams stated this was an item they would be
taking action on later tonight. They can't officially say
ParkTowne has been sold.
Ms. Small clarified by using the $505,000 annual debt
payment figure, which goes away with the potential sale of
ParkTowne. They are only between 2006 and 2007 getting
$330,000 less than they did last year. Potentially they
are in the $200,000 ahead of the program neighborhood.
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Ms. Small informed Mr. Capria that public input at a
workshop is not necessarily something they are going to
get. She thought the Mayor could decide if that is
appropriate or not. Sometimes it is and sometimes it
isn't.
Ms. Small then asked for an update on the status of the
animal shelter project and let them know if any funds
required for the animal shelter are going to be coming from
the General Fund, whether that be in the building of the
shelter or the operation of the shelter, whether that is
architectural design services, anything that is going to be
outside of the $500,000 bond and coming from the General
Fund, she would appreciate it if they would let her know.
Andy Anderson, 1730 pine Tree Drive, stated they seem to be
a City who love animals. They have passed a resolution
where they are going to build a shelter for them for a half
a million dollars. He is an animal lover. To his
knowledge there is no law in the City about taking dogs
around in the back of pick up trucks loose. He asked if
that was correct. Police Chief Taves informed him they
have to be tethered. Mr. Anderson was concerned about
this. He saw a dog being dragged behind a pickup truck not
too long ago and the guy driving the truck didn't even know
he was off the back. He yelled at him. Had he not he
would have probably driven another mile or so before he
found out. When he stopped the dog was a bloody mess. He
must have broken every bone in his body. He would like to
see a law enacted in this City to prohibit animals,
particularly dogs, from being carried around in the back of
pickups. He asked if this was possible.
Vice Mayor Vincenzi informed him that is something they can
talk about.
Councilwoman Lichter stated unhappily there are children
back there too. Mr. Anderson stated he sees a lot of that
too and that shouldn't happen. He feels when the police
see this kind of thing, it shouldn't be allowed. They
should be stopped and ticketed. There is no excuse for
that. He told the gentleman who was going to put the dog
in the back again to put the dog in the cab of the truck
and take him to the nearest vet. Councilwoman Lichter
stated the man was very remorseful and very upset. He
loved that animal. They are aware of that situation. It
was an unusual happening. She felt dogs should be tied if
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they are in the back and they aren't always. Mr. Anderson
felt if they just said no dogs or kids in the back of
pickup trucks in this City that that would cure it. Maybe
the leadership of this City can do something about that by
enacting a law where this would be prohibited it would make
a lot of people happy.
Mike Visconti, 316 Pine Breeze Drive, wanted to discuss the
mention made a couple of meetings back by Mr. Capria about
Mr. Visconti signing the petition for the 35-foot height
limit. He is one of the citizens that made a mistake doing
that.
Mr. Visconti then commented on Mr. Anderson's comment about
his small time contractor and that is why he is for
builders. He is for Edgewater.
Mr. Visconti read a prepared statement. He was reading the
Hometown News and in there was an ad from ECARD, which said
Edgewater Citizens make your voice heard. Say no to more
congested roads, more water problems, more loss of natural
habitat, 9,500 more homes, save our quality of life, sign
the petition. He made a few phone calls and this is
typical of ECARD's approach to convince the citizens of
Edgewater to sign the petition. The petition has to do
with housing development west of 1-95. The developer is
planning 9,800 homes and plans to set aside 43% of the land
for natural habitat. There will be shopping centers, other
services will be planned and developed. A city within a
city. There will be little need for the residents of this
community to drive to Edgewater and cause any traffic
problems or like Edgewater residents. They will have the
opportunity to go shopping there instead. Why these
residents need to come to Florida Shores, which is totally
residential and where else there is no central business
district or malls or any places for the new residents to
come to. Traveling to the beach would not impact the City
at all. ECARD wants a developer limiting homes to 260 from
9,800. He feels this is ridiculous. One home on twenty
acres or more. Is this good for Edgewater? He commented
on the revenue 9,800 homes would bring to Edgewater.
Edgewater needs to do what is best for Edgewater. The City
is in financial crisis. Why turn away this kind of good
thing. He begged the citizens not to sign this petition.
Dot Carlson, 1714 Edgewater Drive, stated they are running
that petition. There was nothing wrong with the ad. She
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paid for it. Actually it was an in-kind from her husband
who printed a booklet. They are moving ahead with it.
People are aware of what they are doing. They are all
suddenly aware of what is going out there. They are also
aware of what is on the land. She has been on it four
times. Whatever is on it now was on it when it was in the
County. It hasn't changed. They have the survey that was
done by the Marshall group and it was undevelopable then
and the land hasn't changed. She isn't trying to shut down
any businesses. She doesn't see any businesses going out
there. She spoke about getting bedrooms out there that
will be sitting on top of the wells that they have to
drink. Everything going in the land is going in the river.
Right now according to St. Johns we do have a clean section
of the Indian River Lagoon. We have to keep it that way.
They are moving ahead with the petition and she is adamant
about it. There are a lot of people that have put a lot of
time and money into it.
Larue Merson, 206 Oak Branch Drive, commented on Coach
Timmons. She didn't know Coach Timmons prior to this year.
Her eight-year-old son was fortunate enough to get on his
team. She was in awe from day one. She didn't miss a
practice or a game. This man has a talent beyond belief.
She was in awe at what he did for the kids. He not only
teaches them the sport. He has this wonderful knowledge
and ability to teach. He is teaching them morals and
values and respect for your family, patriotism. She can't
say enough good. If they lost Coach Eddie in this
community, the children would be at a loss. She couldn't
believe what has happened to him. It is so unfair. The
City of Edgewater owes him an apology big time. She can't
say enough good for him. She went to every practice and
every game and he did nothing wrong. He did nothing but
good for all of the children. She feels the coaches who
don't care for him have a problem. He isn't doing anything
wrong. She feels it is a little bit of jealousy and maybe
doubt in their manhood. It is ridiculous. They ought to
get over it, give the man an apology and get on with little
league.
William Glasser, 1703 Needle Palm Drive, commented on the
fold out map in the back of the Comprehensive Plan that
shows the property west of 1-95 as recharge area. He read
an article in the News Journal about two young ladies on
Mango Tree that ride their bikes and skate on the street
having to get off the street for traffic. Several months
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ago he believed there were some folks on India Palm that
were requesting stop signs or speed bumps because of the
speeding traffic on India Palm. Last October he asked a
question about why a lot of these subdivisions like Meadow
Lake and Majestic Oaks, which have sidewalks have a 20 or
25 mile an hour speed limit and Florida Shores, which has
no sidewalks has a 30-mile an hour speed limit. He stated
Chapter 17 of the Code of Ordinances, which is Traffic,
Article I, Section 17-2 Speed Limits generally. The
maximum speed of motor vehicles allowable on all the
streets within the City with the exception of u.S. #1 and
Riverside Drive shall be 25 miles per hour unless otherwise
posted. He again asked why Florida Shores that doesn't
have sidewalks has a 30 mile per hour speed limit when most
of the other streets in the City whether they have
sidewalks or not is 20 or 25 miles per hour.
City Manager Williams agreed to do some research. He
didn't know why the speed limit was posted in the Shores at
30 miles per hour. Councilwoman Rhodes stated probably
because when it was posted there wasn't anything in the
Shores.
Debra Atamitz, 304 S. U.S. #1, stated she has an eleven-
year-old son that Eddie has been coaching for the last five
years. He also coaches basketball, soccer, and football.
There is a waiting list for Eddie to be their coach. All
the children want Eddie. There have been a lot of problems
with this little league also backing up with soccer and
basketball. There have been a lot of false accusations
against Eddie and nobody has bothered actually
investigating it to see what the problems were. Eddie's
reputation is being dragged through the mud along with the
trespass warrant that went on. It has affected a lot of
children and a lot of families, including Eddie's family.
Something needs to be done along with the rest of the
parents that are involved. Eddie is being accused of
things he did not do. There are people out there doing
things that aren't accused at all. Something needs to be
done so the kids can continue having a coach that knows the
different games, how to treat the children properly. He
hasn't done anything wrong with the children. They all
learn the sports, as well as values and morals and the
proper way to treat young ladies. Eddie teaches them a lot
of good. He doesn't teach them anything that is
disrespectful. Investigations need to be done properly.
They are still waiting to hear what the reasons were for
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the trespass warrant. They need to have answers to that
problem.
5. CITY COUNCIL REPORTS
Councilwoman Rogers stated the one item that seems to be on
everyone's mind is property taxes. They do have a workshop
on the 27th. She wanted to mention that they have some
severe issues that aren't just the City. You have to look
at the TRIM notices. Citizens need to look at Volusia
County. They need to go to the Hospital meetings and all
the other meetings, not just the City. They are going to
pick through it. She is looking through it. What they are
paying here in millage is right at what they are paying
Volusia County and what are they doing for us. Everyone
has heard her screaming about she wants a price of what it
would cost to provide Fire and Police to the City from
Volusia County. On the flip side of that, she wants to
know what Volusia County provides for us. They need to
start dissecting that. She again encouraged the citizens
to go to the other meetings. They need that as much if not
more than what they need within the City as far as getting
the millage down. The problem they have is statewide as
everyone realizes. She doesn't believe the Save Our Homes
and what they are going to be voting on in January is going
to solve it. It is going to continue until they get to the
real crux of it. The real crux to her is why the property
taxes were generated in the first place. They were
generated to pay for services the citizens need based upon
population for the most part. Why aren't they paying a
property tax based upon the number of members in a
household? It seems pretty simple to her. Why aren't they
looking at that? They can't but they have a lot of people
that are coming in and sending a lot of e-mails. Why
aren't they hitting the State and letting them know they
still don't have it right. Maybe the City can ban together
and go to the State and start beating their heads. If they
start realizing they should be paying a tax based upon the
usage of those services based upon the number of people in
a house rather than just the value of a house. She feels
they shouldn't be paying based upon the value.
Councilwoman Rhodes commented on a six-page e-mail she read
from someone in the Utilities Department. She is so
ashamed that the Water Department and the Sewer
Department, Utility Department and all employees in this
City during the hurricanes, what they did was truly heroic.
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Many cities had water problems. We had none. The reason
we had none was because people were slaving around the
clock, during and after the hurricane. They had people
going to the lift stations with generators to keep them
running so people could flush their toilets. It is huge.
She is really ashamed that she didn't know it for one
thing. She was never told. There are many unsung heroes
in the City in every department. They do a job, most of
them except for Fire & Police that you don't see. If they
were gone you would truly miss them and you would be truly
surprised on how dependent you are on all of them. She
said thank you. She wanted the employees to know she
appreciates the job they do. She has always said they are
the City's biggest assets. Whatever budget constraints
come, whatever tax reform occurs, they can be assured she
will be fighting for them. It might not be the popular
thing to do but she will do it anyway.
Councilwoman Lichter stated in a way she is sorry coach
Eddie and his team of supporters have walked out. She
thoroughly deeply believes this should be investigated.
She has gotten two sides to the story. She hasn't made
these decisions but she will say she has known Jack Corder
for fifteen years and there probably isn't a fairer person.
After the Veterans Day ceremony she went back to the
Veterans Hall and there were a few parents that said other
things. She doesn't know. She hasn't been to the games
lately. As a kindergarten teacher she has always felt
little league is best for a little bit older kids where
they can take and handle the competition that is involved
in little league. For the younger ones, they need to
experiment with the games and the skills themselves. Too
much pressure is put on young children in this day and age.
She believes in all fairness to this man who is worshipped
by some. people and others who said he did a few things that
they should thoroughly investigate it. No one's reputation
should be damned to hell for something they don't have a
thorough investigation about.
Councilwoman Lichter commented on utilities. She stated
she has done fifty years in local politics. She doesn't
have to go out and figure every fact and figure. When they
think about spending time looking into the thought of
having the utilities commission take over our most precious
fluid gold, water, she can't tolerate that. That is a
bargaining point for them. That is important. It is a way
in the future to cooperate with other cities. She doesn't
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have to look at the figures for that. Just like when they
were looking outside to see if they should keep our local
trash men and they were looking for something that might
cost two cents less. She received 2,000 petitions from the
citizens to keep our local trash men.
Councilwoman Lichter then commented on a water meeting she
attended at the Agricultural Center. It had to do with
growth and development. The one thing that is affected
most or could be is water. She spoke about the Indian
River being clean. In actuality by National and State
standards it isn't that clean. There are still problems.
She commented on ways she learned that developers can help.
She stated the main thing is that in a development like
they are talking about west of 1-95 that the water not all
go to one place but should go back into the ground.
Edgewater happens to be a City that has always cared about
water conservation but there is still more they can do.
Councilwoman Lichter commented on discussion they had about
farmlands at the meeting she attended and farmers finding
creative ways to make their land profitable. All in all it
was an excellent workshop.
Vice Mayor Vincenzi stated he had a few comments about some
things that have been said. As far as the animal shelter,
there will be total accountability. They will know where
the money is being spent. He was sure it would be
acceptable.
Vice Mayor Vincenzi then commented on tax reductions. He
has always tried to push for the city and departments to
try and find where they can cut expenses so you can lower
taxes. Just because the City is not going to be getting
hit with this big tax cut this year as was anticipated or
feared, first of all it doesn't mean you should stop
looking for ways to cut and it doesn't mean you won't get
hit hard next year. In January when the people have to
vote on more severe actions that will affect all cities in
Florida, that is when people have to be worried. If some
of the proposals do pass, they are going to see cities
scrambling to find out where they can cut back and what
they need to do to maintain services with the money that
has been taken away if these initiatives pass.
Vice Mayor Vincenzi commented on a few e-mails he has
received about the utilities and other services that are
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paid for by user fees and why they are picking on utilities
and utility employees when tax dollars don't affect their
budgets. As far as he is concerned it is the
responsibility of everybody up there to find ways to reduce
costs in all departments. Just because property taxes
don't pay for those operations, you are still paying for it
through user fees. If you can find ways to reduce costs
and maintain services that means your fees get reduced as
well. If you don't want to reduce fees and you don't want
to pay less for the same services, that is okay with him.
He would like to investigate what the possibilities are and
do what needs to be done in order to stop costs and fees
from rising whenever possible.
vice Mayor Vincenzi then commented on little league. He
wished the group had stayed. There are two sides to every
story. Mr. Timmons supposedly was observed behaving
inappropriately at games. Complaints were made. The
little league board didn't do what the City thought they
should do and the City took action. That resulted in a
trespass warrant being placed against Mr. Timmons telling
him not to show up on City property. The little league
board met the next Wednesday and they voted to place
restrictions on Mr. Timmons in exchange for the City
rescinding the trespass warrant, which the City did.
Whether those actions were justified or not, that is a
matter of opinion. He spoke to people that were offended
by his actions. He hasn't been to any games so he didn't
know what he did or didn't do. He has also heard the other
side of the story through Mr. Timmons' e-mails and through
supporters. He has experienced complaints about Mr.
Timmons in other areas such as basketball and he has seen
what he does at basketball games. Some think it is
appropriate, some don't. He feels Mr. Timmons is a very
passionate individual that loves sports and competition.
Overall he is a good person but he gets carried away
sometimes. You can't get carried away the way he does at
these games. If a regular parent got carried away the way
he does, they would be asked to leave. He has seen it
happen. Just because there is a difference of opinion,
nobody thinks he is a bad individual but he needs to
control himself. There are two sides to each story. He
has his side and the City has their side. The little
league board that was in place at the time took action to
force Mr. Timmons not to coach the rest of this season and
next year and will allow him to come back on a probationary
period the following year. If he comes back and coaches,
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he has to control himself and behave properly. They agreed
to it and the City is happy with it. That is where it
stands right now. He didn't understand why they weren't
happy with it.
6. CONSENT AGENDA
A. Declaration of Covenants and Restrictions -
authorizing the Mayor to execute the documents
relating to properties the City purchased through
the Hazard Mitigation Grant Program, which are
located at 135 Wildwood Avenue and 120 West Pine
Bluff Street
Fire Chief Tracey Barlow made a staff presentation.
Councilwoman Rhodes asked about the recreational use of the
land and what Fire Chief Barlow foresees as recreational in
a flood area. Fire Chief Barlow stated it could be used
for a park that couldn't be used if there was standing
water there. They could put a pavilion there or playground
equipment but they wouldn't be able to build any permanent
structures that would be prone to flood or prevent natural
water drainage into that area. It has to stay open green
space area.
Councilwoman Rhodes moved to accept the Consent Agenda,
second by Councilwoman Lichter.
The MOTION CARRIED 4 - 0 .
7. PUBLIC HEARINGS, ORDINANCES AND RESOLUTIONS
There were no Public Hearings, Ordinances or Resolutions to
be discussed at this time.
8. BOARD APPOINTMENTS
There were no Board Appointments to be discussed at this
time.
9. OTHER BUSINESS
A. Sale of ParkTowne Property - Purchase and Sale
Agreement and Addendums submitted by MGM Real
Estate Group, Inc. for purchase of the 831 acres
of City owned property for $4.5 million and
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authorize the Mayor to execute all associated
contract and closing documents (during the
6/18/07 meeting, this item was continued until
July 2nd)
City Manager Williams made a staff presentation with regard
to the proposed contract for the purchase of the remaining
83i acres in ParkTowne. He went over the purchase price,
road impact fee credits, relocating and identifying gopher
turtles, jurisdictional wetlands, payment terms, buyer
costs, and seller costs.
City Manager Williams then went over the benefits to the
City as it relates to the contract.
City Manager Williams stated staff would like Council to
approve the counter proposal and authorize the Mayor to
execute upon the acceptance of MGM Real Estate Group Inc.
Councilwoman Lichter stated she thought the original price
was more than $55,000. She asked if it was $60,000 and
what happened. City Manager Williams informed her the
Council back in January established a minimum price of
$55,000 per acre or $4.5 million. Councilwoman Lichter
stated that was minimum. What happened to the original
thought of $60,OOO? City Manager Williams stated it wasn't
a consideration. This is what the gentleman brought
forward in an offer. Based off of Council's decision, that
is why this item is before them.
Councilwoman Lichter commented on the wetlands situation
and asked what might be permitted in wetlands. City
Manager Williams stated they would suggest to Council the
impact fee credits of $770,000 and striking number 4 from
the proposal. Councilwoman Lichter asked if there is a
third possibility for the turtle relocation? She mentioned
all the turtles that are on the dirt road where the shelter
is located. City Manager Williams stated a lot of that is
dependent upon suitable habitat and they could certainly
explore that.
Councilwoman Rogers stated the first thing that concerns
her is no interest. Time value of money. Not just that,
but no interest and then in the end leaving the City with
an obligation to pay $184,000. She understands they have
advantages in other areas but she feels they need to pull
them back across the table. No interest and they have to
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come out with money. Going to closing and they have to
bring the check. She doesn't like that. She didn't like
the idea of this being advertised at $4.5 million because
that was their break-even point and didn't leave them any
room. Since they originally wanted to go with the $60,000
per acre and they are at $55,000, she feels they need to
negotiate more on interest and what they are going to have
to come to the table with. She feels they shouldn't have
to come to the table with anything.
Councilwoman Rhodes stated she doesn't like no interest
either. She is not opposed to the City holding the
mortgage or giving them an interest rate lower than what
they can get at a bank but some interest certainly. She
used the FEMA money as an example. City Manager Williams
informed the Council they have an obligation to build the
road that they have delayed for at least two years at this
point, which they have some exposed liability. Facing the
pending property tax reform, the competition they have, he
didn't know the answer was necessarily for the City to go
out and enter into more debt of which he believed Council
has identified as not wanting to do. Councilwoman Rogers
stated unless they got debt with no interest. Councilwoman
Rhodes stated they got ParkTowne with no interest. City
Manager Williams informed her that was something else he
was going to bring up. Keeping all those issues in mind,
he asked that Council consider the counter proposal and the
possibility of the delays that come out of that and the
consequences of those delays. This is the only player that
has come to the table at this point with an offer. It may
not be the most attractive but at least it accomplishes
quite a few things. He asked Council to be conscience and
cognoscente of those issues he has just identified.
Councilwoman Lichter asked City Manager Williams if he felt
it might be a good thing to talk to the Economic
Development Board to get some thoughts from them. City
Manager Williams informed her they could do that but those
are all delays. Councilwoman Rhodes felt they should have
done that before now. City Manager Williams stated this is
a goal that has been identified by Council. He commented
on a gentleman that originally proposed $3.6 million and
the Council turned it down and said they would accept a
minimum price of $55,000 an acre. They have these people
that have come forward in a time where economically things
aren't the best and provided the City with this offer. He
understood there were issues and items that were of
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question. He asked Council to factor in all the other
issues they are faced with and what they are looking at in
the very near future on a short term and long-term
perspective.
Councilwoman Rogers commented on the withholding of the
$440,000, which is $55,000 per acre of the eight that they
are saying they are waiting for the investigation of the
jurisdictional wetlands. She doesn't like that.
Councilwoman Rhodes informed her City Manager Williams is
trading off the impact fee credits. He is going to give
them more. He is going to give them $770,000 instead of
$425,000, which makes number 4 go away.
Councilwoman Rhodes stated the point of item 4 is if it
does turn out to be wetlands that can't be built on and we
have to give them back the money then they still own it.
If they give back the money, the City needs to own it. If
they aren't paying for it, they don't own it. She feels
City Manager Williams should go back and say they want 3%
interest on the money. They can say no. The Council
should give City Manager Williams an option. Councilwoman
Rogers suggested they say 5%. Councilwoman Rhodes stated
they could ask but then give City Manager Williams
direction as to what to do if they say no. City Manager
Williams stated that is exactly what he is looking for,
direction. He again reminded Council to consider all the
consequences.
Councilwoman Lichter stated she always finds it difficult
to talk business in terms when you are doing it in public
with who you are going to deal with sitting in the
audience. It isn't the name you sell something. They know
what you are going to do next and how far you will go. The
whole thing is an open book.
Councilwoman Rogers stated they are going to be holding the
note for half of it and that wasn't the situation in the
beginning. That is making it real sweet for them because
they don't have to pay points on that. City Manager
Williams stated they are asking for an eighteen-month term.
That is a relatively short period of time. He can go back
and try to negotiate.
Councilwoman Rogers stated they are doing them a favor by
doing that. She feels the City is getting less from them
than what they are giving to us. City Manager Williams
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explained if Council were to decide to pass and say let's
move forward with the development of this property 100% and
then they will plat it, they will market it and stay in the
business, which he thought the intention was from the
onset. He further commented on development costs and there
being no funding in place unless they go out and get
additional debt. He also spoke about some of the
challenges they face from an internal perspective. He
commented on the goal Council has established for him to
try to reduce that number, not get the City deeper in debt.
Councilwoman Rhodes stated they also established a policy
that they wanted to sell ParkTowne. When they got into the
business of ParkTowne, the ultimate goal was to bring
businesses to this City, to increase the commercial tax
base. Every city does it one way or another. They offer
incentives to make that happen. She feels they can go back
and ask but if they won't then she would take this deal and
she would mark the $184,000 up to incentive to provide
commercial and industrial business in this City. They will
receive it back in tax dollars and lessen the tax burden on
the residents. This is her goal and her opinion.
Councilwoman Rogers suggested they look at the $184,361 and
then they are paying $30,000 in the recording of the deed
and the doc stamps, that is $215,000. She asked City
Manager Williams to ask them to meet us half way. She
feels they have to get something.
Vice Mayor Vincenzi asked what the intention is of the
people that want to buy this property. City Manager
Williams informed him they are going to develop it for
commercial development. Vice Mayor Vincenzi stated the way
he sees it the City is losing a net of $184,000. If they
keep it, they will be tacking on additional debt. That is
not desirable. If they put this land back into the hands
of a private developer, hopefully he will have a little
more incentive to develop it properly, sell it, build or
entice companies to come in, which will achieve one of the
objectives they have been trying to do for eight to ten
years, which is get businesses in here and get jobs for
people and increase our tax base with business properties
and companies. Even though they are losing $184,000 he
didn't think it was necessarily a bad deal. He thought
they might want to go back and try to renegotiate a few
points.
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A gentleman in the audience pointed out the City would be
losing $2 million due to having to pave the roads. Vice
Mayor Vincenzi asked him how he figured that. The
gentleman in the audience informed him they are paying for
the road. Vice Mayor Vincenzi stated if they keep it. The
gentleman stated even if they don't keep it they would be
paying for the road. Vice Mayor Vincenzi stated if they
keep it they have to take on debt in order to pave that
road and they still have the property. They would still
have the same situation they are in now. Councilwoman
Rogers stated but they aren't taking on debt to pay for the
road if they turn around and sell 10 acres to Edgewater
Powerboats at $55,000, then they could use that to pay for
the road. City Manager Williams informed her they didn't
have enough money to pay for that road. Councilwoman
Rhodes stated if they owe $3 million and it costs them $1.3
million for the road and they are getting $4.5 million then
the road is paid for in the $4.5 million. Vice Mayor
Vincenzi stated his opinion is this isn't an ideal deal but
it is a decent deal the City could benefit from and try to
move forward and try to get companies in here to provide
jobs. He feels it is worth losing $184,000 to try to
successfully do that.
Councilwoman Lichter asked City Manager Williams if he had
any input into this or if he saw it today for the first
time. City Manager Williams stated they have talked to the
potential buyer for some time and he has gone back to the
drawing board and offered this as a proposal. The City
countered to his original proposal, increasing the price to
$60,000 an acre, which is in their packet tonight and this
is what he has come back with and countered with. He feels
there are many factors they have to consider such as the
infrastructure and development costs. They eliminate that.
He briefly commented on the expense to the City if they go
out and borrow the money on the obligation they have for
Base Leg and con span. There are some long-term benefits
by taking this approach.
Councilwoman Lichter asked if there were any things they
didn't touch base on. City Manager Williams informed her
they didn't discuss the interest at all. Councilwoman
Lichter felt maybe with velvet gloves he could bring up
that point since it has not been brought up before. City
Manager Williams stated he could ask. He thought the
contract specified on the property that they would begin
paying interest with the prevailing rate of the State Board
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of Administration. If that is something they want him to
go back and counter with is that this eighteen months it
would be amortized at the prevailing rate of the SBA on the
date they close.
Councilwoman Lichter asked if the point came up with the
wetlands if they don't pay that the City will own them.
City Manager Williams stated the point of the wetlands was
taken care of with the increase and road impact fee
credits.
Councilwoman Rhodes stated at $184,000 if that land isn't
developed in nine years they get that money back without
having to provide any services. It's not the best
investment but the debt on this is something they cannot
afford and the taxpayers don't want to pay for. They
bought this land interest free for six years. They are
going to have to start paying interest on it now.
Councilwoman Lichter felt if they were going to have
audience participation that they should identify
themselves.
Councilwoman Rogers stated where else are they going to buy
83 acres in a City that is looking to double the population
in the next five to ten years. She feels they need to come
back. She doesn't want to put out any money out at closing
and go to them and say 5 or 6 percent interest and say for
them to pay half of the $215,000 and then they need to push
it. They need to negotiate and get something else out of
this. She doesn't want the City to have to walk and pay
anything. She feels it isn't good that they are coming to
the City and they have us over a barrel. Call their bluff.
Eighty-three acres in a City that is going to grow like we
are. We are just going to walk to the closing table and
pay for it and give it to them and not charge them
interest. Let's say charge them interest. Let's say meet
us half way. Something so they can come back. She feels
they need to push it back to them one more time.
Councilwoman Rhodes stated and if they say no then what do
they do. Councilwoman Rogers stated they aren't going to
say no. Councilwoman Rhodes informed her she hoped she was
right but city Manager Williams needs to know what to do if
they say no. Councilwoman Rogers stated if they say no
then you walk away.
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Vice Mayor Vincenzi opened the meeting up for public
comments.
The following citizens spoke:
Carol Ann Stoughton, 2740 Evergreen Drive, stated from the
start this was a folly. Now they want to give away the
land for $2 million less then what it is really worth. She
feels what should have been happening all along was instead
of spending $5,000 for a survey to see the vision of where
the City is going to go, they should be advertising to
other States and cities and many realtors to tell them what
the City has to offer. We have the ball in our court.
When they buy the package, they buy it wetlands or not and
they have to adhere to the rules of the road. She asked
how many other people City Manager Williams has solicited
here in his job as City Manager to try to find other people
who are interested. There is only one. buyer. There are
many more out there. They have to advertise. What goes on
here, is we are giving it away. They are going to take the
land and sell it. They are in business to make money.
Evidently, the City isn't. They sell the whole package and
get rid of the City's debt. This has been a debacle from
day one. It was mismanaged in management before. They
never should have been in the business of putting in an
industrial park. Councilwoman Rogers is totally right.
She is an accountant and knows what is going on. Listen to
her. You charge interest. Since when did you ever go
anywhere and not pay interest. For once in your life save
the taxpayers some money and handle this right. Don't vote
it down their throats now. Go for the best buck.
Andy Anderson, 1730 Pine Tree Drive, asked if the City
plans to handle this transaction themselves or are they
going to get some pros in to handle the sale of this
property? City Manager Williams informed him they have
legal representation and so forth. Mr. Anderson stated how
about some professional land dealers that have a lot of
expertise over the years. Why wouldn't you want to
incorporate them and bring them into the picture and let
them handle it professionally? He suggested they get some
professional people that know how to handle these kinds of
deals.
Mr. Anderson asked if they are still paying $330,000 a year
for fifteen years on debt service for the land in
ParkTowne. City Manager Williams stated he didn't know
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where that number was coming from. They have $250,000
proposed for the development of the Base Leg Drive and
Driveway A, which at 15 years is estimated 6% interest.
That is $250,000. That $330,000 was probably talked about
during the budget process nine months ago he believed
didn't materialize into anything. If they pass on this
deal they are going to go out and have to get debt at
whatever the prevailing rate is going to be. They will add
that debt to the $505,000. Right now they pay annually
505,000 just on the purchase of the property. They will
have to get debt to fulfill those obligations or they will
potentially find themselves in another lawsuit and be
forced to do it some time in the future.
Vice Mayor Vincenzi stated the Council agreed to do that
and pave those roads and they are obligated to do it. It's
not a question of are you obligated or not. You are now.
Dominic Capri a , 606 Topside Circle, asked why the developer
couldn't pay for the roads. When the developer came into
their development, the people paid for the roads, not the
City.
Mr. Capria stated as far as the debt as he remembers they
are paying $315,000 for 15 years.
Mike Visconti, 316 Pine Breeze Drive, stated he didn't
understand people saying they need professional people to
runt his City. He asked if they have professional people
here. He feels the City has professional people and they
are running the City and he gave them credit for what they
are doing for the City. Right or wrong you make a
decision. When you make a decision that is the right
decision.
Linda Small, 1629 Willow Oak Drive, stated this goes
against everything she believes in as a businesswoman to
say what she is saying right now. At some point they have
to say they screwed up. We have to say government should
never compete with the private sector in the supply side
management. They did it. They shouldn't have done it.
They have got a bird in hand. She commented on the
economic figures. It could be a long time before they get
another bird in hand.
Councilwoman Rogers doesn't feel the developer will walk
away over $100,000. Ms. Small stated why would he agree to
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it. They have already told the world to take whatever he
give us. They have lost every bit of negotiating power
they ever had. Somebody out there is going oh joy I've got
the number. They need to approve this. Get this mess out
of our laps and move on with it. It's not great but they
have got one in the pocketbook. Just do it and move on.
They can't move out of ParkTowne and into the rest of their
lives until they sell it.
Councilwoman Rhodes agreed.
Ted Cooper, 3028 Mango Tree Drive, stated he sees good and
he sees bad. What he sees is they are giving a lot of
revenue away. He understands that that is their lure for
getting this deal. He feels they are giving a ton away.
It seems like when they get down to the bottom line
$3,033,000. They are only getting $2.5 million that they
are going to pay up front. They want them to hold the
mortgage with no interest for another $2.5 million that
they will get paid maybe later at some other date. They
still have debt. It seems like they need to negotiate a
little better deal. He agreed a bird in hand is better
than anything else but they have to be able to do a little
bit better. They are looking at only $184,000. That is
not true. They are only getting $2.5 million and then they
are getting the rest later at no interest and then they
gave away $770,000 in revenue. They are giving away the
stars. He agreed a bird in hand is tough to walk away from
but he feels they could negotiate a little better.
Councilwoman Rhodes stated they really can't negotiate any
better because like Ms. Small said they know and they have
to do it in public. Councilwoman Rogers stated where else
are they going to buy something below appraised value.
Councilwoman Lichter feels in this case the deed is done.
She feels nothing wrong with the concept of the industrial
park. She just feels they shouldn't have been in the
realtor business. Somebody else should have handled it.
She feels City Manager Williams has a few pointers to push
gently on a little bit. She feels a bird in hand is awful
important to get out from under it.
City Manager Williams stated they could go back and address
those issues and ask them. If at the end of the day he
comes back and says he isn't interested is this the
contract that Council wants him to pursue. He would like
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to ask Council to approve the counter proposal and
authorize the Mayor to execute the contract upon acceptance
of MGM Real Estate Group Inc.
Councilman Vincenzi asked when this would be back before
the Council. City Manager Williams informed him if they
approve it as they are talking about tonight he will go
back and make the counter proposals to him. If he says no
he is going to agree to what they have before them tonight.
The Mayor will execute it and it will go forward. The next
item before Council would be the award of Base Leg Drive
and Driveway A, which is of extreme importance.
Councilwoman Lichter stated they agree in principle. They
agree generally. There are a few fine points City Manager
Williams may want to go over with him. In general, she
agrees. That is qualifying her acceptance.
City Manager Williams stated based on the discussion,
felt he had direction. If they want to approve the
contract with the language they have talked about, it
get any worse than this. He will go back and work on
negotiating some of those points they have addressed.
at the end of the day it doesn't work that is what it
be. That is Council's decision.
he
won't
If
will
Councilwoman Rhodes made a motion to accept this contract
and authorize the Mayor to execute said contract after City
Manager Williams has spoken to MGM Real Estate Group, Inc.
She encouraged City Manager Williams to do the best he can
to get more but if this is the bottom line then she would
approve this. She would make a motion to approve this as
the bottom line, second by Councilwoman Lichter.
The MOTION CARRIED 3-1. Councilwoman Roqers voted NO.
10. OFFICER REPORTS
A. City Clerk
City Clerk Wadsworth had nothing at this time.
B. City Attorney
City Attorney Ciocchetti had nothing at this time.
C. City Manager Williams
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City Manager Williams had nothing at this time.
1) Tentative Agenda Items
There were no Tentative Agenda Items to be discussed at
this time.
Councilwoman Rhodes asked Fire Chief Barlow to tell them
where they can park for the July 4th festivities.
Fire Chief Barlow stated at the New Smyrna/Edgewater
Cemetery and the corner of Lamont and u.s. #1, the vacant
lot across from the church. Councilwoman Rhodes stated
they are having a barbeque there. Fire Chief Barlow stated
they are having a barbeque but they have secured an
agreement with the landowner of that field prior to the
barbeque being advertised.
11. CITIZEN COMMENTS
The following citizens spoke:
Mike Visconti, 316 pine Breeze Drive, stated Edgewater
needs to do what is best for Edgewater. The City is in
financial crisis. Why turn away this kind of good. He
begged them not to sign another ridiculous petition. Let
the elected officials do what they hired them to do and not
tie their hands again and again. Where would the citizens
of Edgewater be if there was no Florida Shores, Meadow
Lake, San Remo, Edgewater Landing. They wouldn't be here.
Let's look forward to a bright community instead of a
stagnant one. They have done a lot to improve and beautify
the City. Let's keep improving and not go backwards. Let
Edgewater flourish. Vote no.
Mr. Visconti wished everyone a Happy 4th of July. He
suggested next year for the 4th of July that they have a
parade and celebrate Independence Day the way it should be
celebrated with community involvement, parades, boy scouts
and girl scouts, school bands, guest speakers, patriotic
concerts and all this to make our country the great country
it is. Let's celebrate it where the founding fathers what
they did and all the wars that were fought and for the
freedom we have today.
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Carol Ann Stoughton, 2740 Evergreen Drive, thanked
Councilwoman Rogers for doing what was right and voting no.
The other three she wouldn't have expected anything else
because they got the City into this mess in the first
place. One bird in a bush. They should have a lot more.
They approved something that they don't even know what they
are getting. We are going to end up still owning land in
there. The Land should be sold and let go and they should
be making a profit on it. She informed City Manager
Williams she thought the City was still in debt for $43
million. They were in debt for $315,000 per year for 15
years on this debacle. Will that loan be paid off when
this is allover with or will they still have that debt to
pay for? It is a sad state of affairs. They do need a
change in government.
City Manager Williams stated when you look at the debt
schedule for the General Fund it is broken out by that
transaction closing it would probably represent about a 30%
reduction in the overall debt that is on the books for the
General Fund for this year. Quite significant.
Bob McIntosh, 2921 Sabal Pam Drive, stated if anyone here
doesn't think the growth isn't coming to this area with our
without Edgewater, they are sadly mistaken. Look around at
the other cities in this County and State. You can't stop
growth forever. It will swallow us up and we will be
scrambling to survive with a plan that is too little too
late. The key now is to have a great plan in place and
control it. Why many believe height limitations are the
answer, he does not. He asked how many lawsuits are
already being initiated or have been served. Keeping
business out of the city is not the answer. There are many
industries out there that can be conducive to our climate
and area. He commented on the many things he feels the
City has to offer. He commented on people being worried
about fresh water and solving that problem with a
desalinization plant on the river. He commented on there
being federal grants available. He commented on actively
pursuing this project now in conjunction with the other
cities, the County and St. Johns Water Management, and
local colleges to help keep the cost down. He then
commented on new technology called water theaters, which he
feels will be our future. They can help themselves and
sell to others if they act now.
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.
Linda Small, 1629 Willow Oak Drive, stated you are damned
if you do and you are damned if you don't. Vice Mayor
Vincenzi stated every time.
Ms. Small stated for every house in this City there is an
opinion on how the City should be run. Most of them here
come to every meeting and feel like it is their job for the
Council to do what they want them to do, to heck with
everybody else. She told the Council they were doing a
good job. It was a tough evening.
Ms. Small stated as much as she appreciates Vice Mayor
Vincenzi's attempt to answer her question earlier about the
animal shelter, it really didn't. She asked if any cost
associated with the building and operating of the animal
shelter will be coming out of the general Fund. City
Manager Williams stated with Council's action they took
with setting this service up as an Enterprise Fund, they
did specify a transfer from the General Fund to that
Enterprise Fund to help pay for the animal control
officers' expense. That is what they have identified once
they make that transition to an Enterprise Fund. Currently
it is funded 100% out of the General Fund. In October they
will make that transition.
Councilwoman Lichter stated the animal control officers are
needed whether you have a shelter or not.
Ms. Small asked what the annual animal shelter control
officer obligation from the General Fund outside of the
$500,000 bond. City Manager Williams estimated $59,000.
Their intention over time with it being an Enterprise Fund
is that that transfer will start working off of that.
Andy Anderson, 1730 Pine Tree Drive, stated he still thinks
they should use a professional land transactor to handle
this business with ParkTowne. If they are worried about
the commission, that is negotiable. If you get a good man
to handle it they would be a lot of better off than trying
to do it themselves. The Council is not professional in
this area. They run the City and that is their job. They
aren't realtors. They don't know. He urged them strongly
to think about that.
Agnes Witter, 223 Flagler Avenue, stated she was wondering
how much property they started out originally in ParkTowne.
When they purchased it was the 82 acres they are
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considering selling now plus the acreage they have already
sold or is it larger than that sum total. City Manager
Williams informed her he didn't recall the initial amount
of the acreage. He would have to go back and research that
information.
Ms. Witter stated when they consider the $4.5 million they
are selling the 82 acres for now, what is the profit they
have made off of the previous land sales. Is that being
considered in the total price they paid at the time of the
purchase of that property? vice Mayor Vincenzi stated he
didn't think there was any profit. He thought they used the
sale of the land to pay for infrastructure and improvements
so it offset each other. That was the intention when they
first started it.
Ms. Witter asked how much of the land is Edgewater going to
have left after the sale of the 82 acres to use for our
benefit. Councilwoman Rhodes informed her none. Vice
Mayor Vincenzi stated hopefully someone would come in and
entice businesses to come in.
Dot Carlson, 1714 Edgewater Drive, stated she was sorry she
missed the meeting that Councilwoman Lichter attended that
she spoke about earlier. Councilwoman Lichter informed her
all her friends were at her table. Ms. Carlson stated they
were keeping her up to date as much as she could get in
touch with them and her husband kept other people up to
date on her doings. She informed Councilwoman Lichter that
she was right and the river isn't clean. It was cleaner.
It isn't going to get cleaner. Councilwoman Lichter stated
there isn't a body of water in Florida that is clean. Ms.
Carlson stated she was shocked to find out that Rock
Springs has had to be closed down. Desalinization is
pricey. They have to think about that.
Nora Gillespie, former Edgewater City Councilwoman, stated
she set the CIP. She set, she bonded, she went to
Tallahassee, she negotiated all the bonds for the City for
the first three major CIP projects. God help you all if
they don't suit anybody. One thing they did was limit
everybody to speaking twice. They cut it because they were
there until 2, 3 or 4 in the morning. It is going to be a
joy for her. She is now the official observer for the
League of Women Voters. She is enjoying it because she
isn't on the hot seat.
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Vice Mayor informed her she was welcome any time.
Councilwoman Lichter informed her she would be there after
November with Ms. Gillespie.
Ms. Stoughton, from the audience, asked what is going on
with the Shuffleboard Courts. Councilwoman Rogers informed
her it would be on the next agenda.
12 . ADJOURNMENT
There being no further business to discuss, Councilwoman
Rhodes moved to adjourn.
The meeting adjourned at 8:58 p.m.
Minutes submitted by:
Lisa Bloomer
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Council Regular Meeting
July 2,2007