Loading...
06-18-2007 - Regular . u o CITY COUNCIL OF EDGEWATER REGULAR MEETING JUNE 18, 2007 7:00 P.M. COMMUNITY CENTER MINUTES 1. CALL TO ORDER Mayor Thomas called the Regular Meeting to order at 7:00 p.m. in the Community Center. ROLL CALL Mayor Michael Thomas Councilwoman Debra Rogers Councilman Dennis Vincenzi Councilwoman Harriet Rhodes Councilwoman Judith Lichter City Manager Jon Williams City Clerk Susan Wadsworth City Attorney Carolyn Ansay Present Present Present Excused Present Present Present Present INVOCATION, PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE There was a silent invocation and pledge of allegiance to the Flag. 2. APPROVAL OF MINUTES A. Regular Meeting of March 5, 2007 Councilwoman Lichter moved to approve the March 5, 2007 minutes, second by Councilman Vincenzi. The MOTION CARRIED 4 - 0 . B. Regular Meeting of April 9, 2007 Councilman Vincenzi moved to approve the April 9, 2007 minutes, second by Councilwoman Rogers. The MOTION CARRIED 4 - 0 . 3. PRESENTATIONS/PROCLAMATIONS/PLAQUES/CERTIFICATES/DON ATIONS Page 1 of 28 Council Regular Meeting June 18,2007 o o A. Mayor Thomas presenting Lynne Plaskett a plaque for 21 (plus) years of service with the City of Edgewater Mayor Thomas presented Lynne Plaskett with a plaque for her over twenty-one years of service to the City. Lynne Plaskett thanked the Council very much. She commented on how much she appreciates the fact she has worked for the City of Edgewater. It isn't so much the City itself as the citizens she has worked for and with. It is public service. She has bee a public servant almost all her life. Since she has been with the City of Edgewater, one of the things that first came to them in 1986 was a development called Edgewater Landing. Edgewater Landing was proposed to be a mobile home park. Florida Shores was designed to be the largest mobile home park in Volusia County. Edgewater Landing was something they were very proud of and they said back then that they didn't want a mobile home park, manufactured homes. They wanted them to own their own lots and have their own sewer and water and they wanted them to pay taxes. She thinks Edgewater Landing was one of the first manufactured homes in the County that actually did that. She is very proud of that fact. Ms. Plaskett stated she was in the Planning Development Department for sixteen or seventeen years. when she left the Planning Department they were at Planning, Zoning, Building, Code Enforcement, Safety and all that kind of stuff. She expressed her appreciation for all the department heads, especially Jack Corder, Terry Wadsworth, Tracey Barlow and those department heads that made it possible then when developments came into the City that all of them sat down at the table and looked at the development and said do they want this for the City or not. Is it a good development or not? The department heads that stand before Council today took a serious look at all the development with this City and they really gruelingly looked at it and looked at all the information involved. They made the right decisions back then. She believed the department heads today are probably making some of the right decisions but the Council has the ultimate decision and what happens with this City. She loves the City. She has given twenty-one years of her life to the city. She begged and urged the Council to take the professional Page 2 of 28 Council Regular Meeting June 18, 2007 o o people they have on staff, listen to them. She understands about tax reform and everything that is going on today but please don't hurt the little person. She says that with the utmost respect and dignity and everything in her heart. She gave up her job voluntarily because she knew it was the right thing for the City of Edgewater. She could write grants all day long but if they have no matching funds for those grants there was no purpose for her sitting there collecting her salary and the benefits for the City of Edgewater and the taxpayers of Edgewater to collect that money. She humbly and graciously thanked them for twenty- one years of service. She loves the City of Edgewater. She has always loved the City. They will work together with New Smyrna and Oak Hill. She thanked them for the plaque. She informed Council they have some hard decisions ahead of them. She asked them to look into their mind, their heart and their soul and please don't hurt the little person. Mayor Thomas stated unfortunately he thought the tax reform is one of the reasons that Ms. Plaskett is leaving. It is really unfortunate. They are going to have to make some decisions on the future and who is going and who is going to say. It is really sad. Mayor Thomas asked if anyone was there from Little League. He asked Jack Corder, Johnny Lee and anyone else from Leisure Services to come forward. Mayor Thomas stated the President of the Little League asked Mayor Thomas to present them with a picture of the fields as their thanks for maintaining the fields so good. The Hawks Park Complex fields are just manicured. He heard a lady, who didn't know who he was, make the comment that the fields were as good as Yankee Stadium and he was so proud. Then they went to a meeting in Palatka, a Hunt Club meeting and there was a lady from Northwest Volusia Little League and she recognized him and knew he was the Mayor of Edgewater and couldn't quit commenting on our fields. He commented on how proud he is of the Leisure Services Department and what they have done. He expressed his appreciation. Mayor Thomas then read a letter from the Sugar Mill Homeowners Association acknowledging the wonderful performance of departments in Edgewater that assisted Page 3 of 28 Council Regular Meeting June 18, 2007 o 0 during the wildfire threat. He further expressed his appreciation. 4. CITIZEN COMMENTS Mayor Thomas asked if anyone had attended the Growth Summit on Saturday. Agnes Whitter pointed out she had. Mayor Thomas asked her to give a report on what she learned. He didn't want to be bias. The following citizens spoke: Bill Glasser, 1703 Needle Palm Drive, stated a few times over the past few years at Council meetings he has heard a statement made, which was in response to the City debt situation, that Florida Shores is the reason the City has debt in the City. He remembered moving to Florida Shores in 1967. It seems like he paid taxes for about twenty years or more and what they got for their taxes was nothing. They proposed paving programs, sewer programs, dust treatment programs and it only took four petitions and eleven years for the City to establish a truck route because the local truckers liked to race one another on the dust streets in Florida Shores. He pulled out one of his daily journals from 1987 where they were discussing the upgrades necessary in the City. The engineering firm they had estimated it to be $56 million. Sewer service to Florida Shores was $9.75 million but then there was a $3.35 million expansion of the Wastewater Plant, upgrades to the Water Treatment Plant, storm improvements in Florida Shores, Shangri La, and Wildwood Subdivisions, citywide system water improvements for the purpose of fire detection, a police department complex, extension of the twenty inch water line to State Road 442, etc. It was to the tune of about $56 million. They were talking about adopting the eleven most important projects, which were about $21.675 million. Mayor Thomas asked Mr. Glasser if he was about done. His time was up. Mr. Glasser informed him he wasn't done. Mayor Thomas informed him he could revisit this at the last remiss at the end of the meeting. Louis Woska, 3212 Tamarind Drive, stated at the last election the voters of Volusia County and in particular the voters of Edgewater voted to maintain the control of all of our water resources in the individual cities and not Page 4 of 28 Council Regular Meeting June 18, 2007 o o relinquish that authority to the County. He didn't feel the intent of the voters was to give the public trust to a for profit organization. Councilpersons are elected to represent the interest of the constituents. Ratemaking should be under the control of the City, not a for profit organization. While the General Fund spends beyond its means each year from a tax collection standpoint, it is able to function due to the millions of dollars transferred from water & sewer, money which allows the City to have additional policemen, firemen, recreational programs. It seems odd that a Council would even consider divesting itself of its moneymaker. The City says it wants to operate like a business. From what he understands there are forty to fifty utilities affected by the potential sell. Through these employees diligent efforts, cost efficient operations, both the General Fund, Water, Sewer utility have benefited greatly. These employees are taxpayers, voters, stakeholders and the future of the City. They are licensed professionals who safeguard the public health of the community and deserve recognition for their efforts, not the burden of having to go to bed at night wondering if they would still have a job tomorrow. Utility services control growth. Does the Council want to give up that degree of control to a for profit utility. Water and sewer treatment directly affect the environment such as the amount of wastewater that is discharged to the river. The environmental concerns of the residents of the City are the responsibility of the elected officials and the City of Edgewater should not be transferred into a private business. He worked for a national underground contractor and he has seen this numerous times throughout the State of Florida such as in Lee County, Martin County, Collier County and Citrus County. All four of those counties have spent millions of dollars with their company straightening out systems they bought back. These people are in it to make money and don't care about the taxpayers. The Council has the inevitable position of being able to make a sound business decision for the benefit of the ratepayers, the taxpayers in the City and give a vote of confidence to the dedicated group of public health employees who deserve their support. Let's keep control of our utilities and not sell them to a for profit organization. 5. CITY COUNCIL REPORTS Councilwoman Rogers stated she spoke to a citizen today and they wanted her to address the fact that taxes is not just Page 5 of 28 Council Regular Meeting June 18, 2007 o o the City of Edgewater when you are looking at your bill. In the minutes from the March 5th meeting it does mention that she brought up the fact that they need to look at the trim notices and the breakdown. when you are coming to these meetings and you are concerned about the taxes and cuts and where money is being spent and cut, look at the TRIM notice and go to the other meetings, such as the School Board and Hospital meetings. If you go to the City of Edgewater website, there is a nice handout that was given to citizens the day of the Town Hall meeting, which can be downloaded, which has a diagram of where the tax dollars go. It's not just the City. Councilwoman Rogers stated right before they voted on the utilities to be looked at, they haven't said let's sell the utilities, she brought up the fact that our ad valorem taxes do not cover police and fire. The City Council had to vote for this and it was voted down. She asked for an analysis of those services being provided by Volusia County compared to the City. She likes our local services. If you don't have the money, you don't have the money. Our ad valorem taxes don't cover it. The million dollars is going into the General Fund. That is nothing more than another form of taxation. That particular day when they voted to have the utilities looked at, it would really be no different than them looking at what it would cost if Volusia County provided police or fire so they could compare it to what we have. That is just looking at the financial aspect of it. They would have to look at that and look at other things that are not viewed in a financial aspect, such as services and response times. They can't make decisions unless they have the numbers in front of them. She asked City Manager Williams to look at neighboring cities and some cities within Volusia County that are similar to Edgewater and to take their ad valorem taxes and what they are paying for fire and police, is it provided locally, is it provided by volusia County, and what is the breakdown. Are there other cities that have ad valorem taxes that do not cover fire and police? They can't make a good decision unless they have something in front of them to do it. City Manager Williams stated he could do the comparison and bring the information back to Council but he didn't think they would find us unique in the fact that public safety consumes ad valorem taxes. He felt this would be a consistent factor in every municipality they look at. Page 6 of 28 Council Regular Meeting June 18,2007 o o Councilwoman Lichter commented on being involved in the water situation for ten years and stated she would talk about this under her comments. City Manager Williams commented on the Facts about Property Tax being on the website as well as being available in print format at City Hall. Councilman vincenzi stated he appreciated Mr. Woska's views. He has seen this numerous times. Someone throws out an idea and all of a sudden it is you are selling us out, you are doing this and you are doing that. If this were to be done, this would be a long process that would be talked about in public. Nobody is selling anyone out just yet. He respected Mr. Woska's views and the employees' views and anybody else that loves the utilities and the water and the service the City provides. He feels they also have a responsibility to at least investigate other options. He spoke of getting rid of the moneymakers and keeping the losing propositions such as police and fire when what he feels they should be asking is how come the City has been overcharging them for the last eight or ten years where they are able to take $5 million out of this one fund and put it somewhere else. It is not a for profit business. The City should be charging the people enough to break even and pay for expenses. If expenses go up, then you revisit the fees and raise or lower them accordingly. They need to do a lot of work in the City and they need to review everything and make sure things are done properly. He feels they need to look at the Water & Sewer Fund and lower the fee on it so the excess million dollars isn't available to be taken out and then other things have to be adjusted accordingly so people are being charged the right fee at the right time for the right services. What has been done over the past eight or ten years taking the million dollars out and transferring it to the General Fund is not right. Councilwoman Lichter stated Lynne Plaskett left in a hurry because she got a little emotional. She goes back fifteen years with her. She was on Planning & Zoning. Their first connection was history of Edgewater. She met her at many historical meetings. She ran the historical museum for Leisure Services. She has attended church services with her and she has never been more emotionally involved and had such a good time with religion. She is a Councilwoman in New Smyrna so she so really hasn't lost the touch. Page 7 of 28 Council Regular Meeting June 18, 2007 o o Councilwoman Lichter then commented on the water situation and utilities taking over. There was no vote the other night. There was only consensus. She did not put up her hand for any type of consensus. She has been on the Water Alliance and Water Authority group for ten years. There is no more valuable liquid gold than water for a community. That is the most important commodity you can have. In the end it is a commodity for bartering. In the end it is a commodity that comes before food. She doesn't want even the thought in her own mind because she has seen two cities in Volusia County not do well with having the utilities company. She doesn't want even the thought of it. She referred to Deland and New Smyrna being run by other people. They have had financial trouble. Because of it they have left the Water Authority Group. Some day they will need to cooperate. Every city in this County will have to cooperate. For now, she feels they should hold on to that most precious commodity. How they came to the consensus and what the final vote is for City Manager Williams to go forward she had no idea. She did not give a nod or put her hand up for it. City Manager Williams stated he understood there was consensus to go out and look and research. Councilwoman Lichter asked if it was 3-2. City Manager Williams informed her a possibility. That is correct. He realizes they were throwing around a lot of different ideas and suggestions. It had been a fairly long day. He intended on asking for some additional clarification tonight regarding that. He knew the very nature of the subject that they are dealing with at hand is highly controversial at best. They started this process back in March and he is trying to identify multiple solutions and avenues in coming forward with addressing the property tax issue. Obviously it got a little mixed during the town hall meeting because the topic went into debt. He presented that as only an option. He has not done any additional research up to this point. He understood where Councilwoman Rhodes' stood on the issue as of today. Councilwoman Lichter asked if Councilwoman Rhodes was the other no vote. City Manager Williams informed her no, she is of the opinion they should look at this as an option. It is not an indication that it is her desire to sellout the employees or sell the utilities off. He believed it Page 8 of28 Council Regular Meeting June 18,2007 u o was her opinion and that there is a responsibility to look at this option going forward. Councilwoman Lichter commented on her feelings being so deep about the water situation having been so close to it and realizing it is one aquifer. They are all going to have to work together. She doesn't want to have a utilities commission representing what to her is a treasure in this community. City Manager Williams stated Councilman Vincenzi asked who was accountable when he first brought that discussion up and he responded with the PSC and he has learned since then that is not in fact true at all and the FGOA is a not for profit utility authorize made up of different governmental entities. We become a member, we sit on the board and we make some decisions. He had very limited knowledge at this point in time. Councilwoman Lichter felt it was important to have a history lesson as part of this to check out the failures that have occurred. City Manager Williams stated that is exactly what he was looking for from Council in terms of consensus was direction. Do they want him to research this and come back and present them with the history, the pros and cons, and all the associated positives and negatives that go along with that as a potential opportunity. He asked Council for clarification on the issue in going forward. He deducted from what he has heard tonight, having not yet heard from Mayor Thomas, that Councilwoman Rogers and Councilman Vincenzi would like him to move forward still looking at this as information gathering. Councilwoman Rogers stated it is a shame they can't do the same with fire and police due to having been voted down. Mayor Thomas disclosed he has visited the Water Plant and the Sewer Plant and he is very satisfied with how things are going with the employees operating it and the services the residents are getting. Mayor Thomas presented a report on the Smart Growth Summit he attended on Saturday. He stated what this is all about is Volusia County and protecting the environmental core and our jewels, Mosquito Lagoon, Ponce Inlet, the Beaches, Page 90f28 Council Regular Meeting June 18, 2007 (.) o Turnbull Hammock, Spruce Creek, the Tomoka River, Lake George, Lake Woodruff, Green Springs, Blue Springs, Lake Monroe Park, and several grants. They have tried to preserve all this property. We are so far ahead of all the other counties. He is so proud to be a Volusian. He commented on what Orange County has. They are murdering and raping people over there every day. Another thing they are trying to do is make an environmental corridor so the wildlife can still travel. Everything in blue is protected land. He is so proud of where Volusia is in regards to all the other counties. Agnes Witter, 223 Flagler Avenue, stated what she got out of it was they are trying to plan ahead for development. They are trying to plan ahead for transportation needs. They are trying to plan ahead for where our water is going to come from because they feel that our growth is going to exceed the amount of water we can take out of our superficial aquifers. She thought they said we were at 55 million gallons per day withdrawal right now and our maximum is 72 million gallons per day. They have to look towards where the excess above that is going to come from. They are trying to use transferred development rights whereby they can buy development rights from large property owners and allow them to build on a portion of their property or sell a portion of their property to a developer that would use a smaller footprint in developing that property in order to leave open space available for the residents as well as for the wildlife and to preserve our ecological heritage. She had a problem with approving such scattered developments because you still end up with the problem of if someone is living in a little POD twenty or thirty miles from where they work at, they have to get into their car and drive to work. It was brought up and emphasized that we are spoiled and that we want one person and one car on the road. We aren't willing to use mass transit or carpool. These are things they are trying to persuade us to start considering as our population grows. They are looking forward to where our new schools should be. Should they build one large school and bus everybody in or should they build smaller schools within community areas that would not require as much bussing but may cost more in the long run to build so many schools. She knew they had a Plan A, Plan B, plan C and Plan D and they will eventually get through all of them. Page 10 of28 Council Regular Meeting June 18, 2007 o o Mayor Thomas stated water is so important to our future. He appreciated Councilwoman Lichter being on the Water Authority of Volusia. The cities are trying to work together and they have cities pulling out all the time because they don't want to be dictated how much water. If they don't try to conserve water they are going to be in trouble in the future. He is proud to be a Volusia County resident and that they are predicting the future. He is proud of the leaders at the County level and all the cities have gotten together and are trying to provide this green space and water and predict the future problems. 6. CONSENT AGENDA A. Event License Agreements - staff recommending approval and execution by the Mayor of the Agreements to utilize vacant property at the corner of Lamont/N. Ridgewood Avenue and within the Edgewater-New Smyrna Cemetery for parking during the July 4, 2007 fireworks display Due to there being no comments, Mayor Thomas entertained a motion. Councilwoman Rogers moved to approve the event license agreement for the July 4th fireworks, second by Councilman vincenzi. The MOTION CARRIED 4 - 0 . 7. PUBLIC HEARINGS, ORDINANCES AND RESOLUTIONS A. 2nd Reading, Ord. No. 2007-0-11, Halstead Resources, Inc. requesting an amendment to the Comprehensive Plan Future Land Use Map to include .63f acres of land located west of 121 W. Marion Avenue as Commercial (small scale comprehensive plan amendment) (cont. from 6/4/07, Item 7E) City Attorney Ansay read Ord. 2007-0-11 into the record. Development Services Director Darren Lear made a staff presentation. Mayor Thomas opened the public hearing. The following citizen spoke: Page 11 of28 Council Regular Meeting June 18, 2007 o o Ted Cooper, 3028 Mango Tree Drive, asked how the lot was broken up. Development Services Director Lear explained it is currently medium density residential and it would take it to commercial. Mr. Cooper questioned this property being landlocked. Development Services Director Lear informed him it had access to Marion. Mayor Thomas closed the public hearing and entertained a motion. Councilwoman Lichter moved to approve Ord. 2007-0-11, Halstead Resources, Inc. requesting an amendment to the Comprehensive Plan Future Land Use Map to include .63z acres of land located west of 121 W. Marion Avenue as Commercial, second by Councilwoman Rogers. The MOTION CARRIED 4 - 0 . B. 2nd Reading, Ord. No. 2007-0-12, Trey Harshaw requesting an amendment to the Official Zoning Map to include 0.459z acres located at 1830 Orange Tree Drive as RP (Residential Professional) (rezoning) City Attorney Ansay read Ord. 2007-0-12 into the record. Development Services Director Lear made a staff presentation. Trey Harshaw, applicant, had no questions but was available to answer any questions or concerns. He commented on what they plan to do with the property. Due to there being no comments, Mayor Thomas opened and closed the public hearing. Councilwoman Rogers moved to approve Ord. 2007-0-12, Trey Harshaw requesting an amendment to the Official Zoning Map to include 0.459z acres located at 1830 Orange Tree Drive as RP (Residential Professional), second by Councilman Vincenzi. The MOTION CARRIED 4 - 0 . Page 12 of28 Council Regular Meeting June 18,2007 o o Councilwoman Lichter asked if they have seen those conditions where a property facing the main highway can be converted. Are there some times when a property will not be able to be converted because of traffic problems or proximity to a neighbor on a side street. Do they have rules in place about that situation? Mr. Lear informed her in that event they would probably be requesting some sort of variances from the Land Development Code that would have to be approved by the Planning & Zoning Board. He knows there are a few homes on SR 442 that have driveways right off of SR 442 that could be an issue. Councilwoman Lichter recalled receiving some complaints from people on the side streets regarding if this would bring a lot of traffic, etc. They need to have some rules and regulations of when they can do it and when they can't. Mr. Lear informed her they do have that. They have conditions. It can't be a use that would be traffic intensive. Councilwoman Lichter confirmed it would have to be a professional building or business building of some type. Mr. Lear confirmed that was correct. Councilwoman Lichter asked if there were some driveways on the main street. Mr. Lear informed her there were. That would be something they would have to look at when the applicant came in. Maybe closing that driveway off and asking for a variance to add a driveway on the side street for a safer traffic pattern. Mayor Thomas asked what type of sign he would be allowed to have there. Mr. Lear informed him by the Land Development Code it is four square feet. 8. BOARD APPOINTMENTS A. Citizen Code Enforcement Board - nomination by Councilwoman Rogers to fill a vacant seat due to the resignation of Alvin Wiefling Councilwoman Rogers moved to appoint Ed Corn, second by Councilwoman Lichter. The MOTION CARRIED 4 - 0 . 9. OTHER BUSINESS A. Sale of ParkTowne Property - Purchase and Sale Agreement and Addendums submitted by MGM Real Estate Group, Inc. for purchase of the 82t acres of City owned property for $4.5 million and Page 13 of28 Council Regular Meeting June 18, 2007 o o authorize the Mayor to execute all associated contract and closing documents (item was continued/tabled during the May 21, 2007 Council meeting awaiting the environmental study) City Manager Williams stated they are going to have to continue yet another time. He apologized for that. The environmental study is somewhat complete. There are some details that have to be worked out. The representative from MGM and himself will be sitting down tomorrow to discuss those remaining items with the intention of bringing back a contract on July 2nd. Councilwoman Lichter moved to continue the Purchase until the July 2nd meeting, second by Councilman Vincenzi. The MOTION CARRIED 4 - 0 . B. Shuffleboard Court - Update/Report Leisure Services Director Jack Corder presented an update. The plans were hand delivered to the district emergency management office. They have called and confirmed they have received them, they have reviewed them and they have sent them to Tallahassee to emergency management for their review. He has asked that any questions or any additional information they may need to be directed to him and they will proceed from there. Councilwoman Rogers stated the individual that indicated they received it and forwarded it, did they give him a date when they forwarded. Mr. Corder stated he called on May 30th and he said that he had just shipped them to Tallahassee. Whether it was by mail or carrier, he didn't know. Councilwoman Rogers asked how long it generally takes at that point. Mr. Corder stated he couldn't give him an answer on that. It depends on the staff up there on what their process is and what they are going through. Councilwoman Rogers asked for his name and number so she could contact him to try to push this along. Mr. Corder agreed to provide her with the information tomorrow. Mayor Thomas shuffleboard asked if the plan is to courts at Rotary Park. Page 14 of28 still place the Mr. Corder informed Council Regular Meeting June 18,2007 o o him yes. Mayor Thomas stated he was talking to someone at the Growth Summit the other day and they told him that drainage was not sufficient. He asked if they are planning on paving that parking lot or using pervious concrete or pavers. Mr. Corder stated they the initial drive is paved and a small portion of the parking lot is paved. The overflow parking would be grass. They already have the permit from St. Johns. C. Goodwin Simon Victoria Research - Findings from Voter Research - (Telephone Survey) - discussion regarding the results of the survey City Manager Williams made a presentation regarding the results of the telephone survey that was done by Goodwin Simon Victoria Research. Councilwoman Lichter asked if she was under the mistaken idea that this property must be used for City purposes when it was given to the City. City Manager Williams stated it is supposed to be used for public purposes. There is a deed restriction that clearly indicates it shall be used for public purposes. Councilwoman Lichter stated she still wanted to go on the record as saying she believes the best place for a City Hall that reflects the character and historical background of Edgewater is right here. The original intent for the Police and Fire Administration Building was the 17 acres purchased south on u.S. #1 where the Shelter occupies two acres of it. The plans are made for a City Hall here involving going across the street. It is a unique situation. She believes it should probably be here, which is a beautiful spot, or the horse farm, which is another beautiful spot. Character of a city is reflected by the City Hall. Regions Bank didn't meet her idea of a City Hall that reflects the personality of our City. She doesn't know if that question, by putting the three things together, might have taken away from the need of a City Hall. When you are dealing with 22,000 people, that is a very hard thing to do. You can't call them all. There has to be something written so people understand. That is touching the surface as far as she is concerned. City Manager Williams explained that was exactly why they broke those questions out and asked them individually. He thinks where they are heading from this point is to look at Page 15 of28 Council Regular Meeting June 18, 2007 o o whether or not they can accomplish keeping City Hall in this location and building a new City Hall and Police Department for $9 million. That is the next few challenges. That is the one that received the most support. He feels there are some other factors they need to take into consideration. They have asked the survey questions at a time when tax reform is a very hot topic. They need to consider this as well. Councilwoman Lichter stated several items were on a couple of years ago. Even with the Y and other things people were asked what they thought the City needs the most. Before it was the Y it was a recreation building, a community center type of thing is what ended up the Y. The citizens wanted that building. She thought it would be interesting to find out what they thought was lacking. What they think the City needs might be another way to approach things. 10. OFFICER REPORTS A. City Clerk Wadsworth had nothing at this time. B. City Attorney Ansay had nothing at this time. C. City Manager City Manager Williams commented on a memo and supporting documentation that identifies that the Executive Committee, which is comprised of the Tri-City Managers, Port Orange, New Smyrna and Edgewater, have recently reviewed the cost of continuing RCC as the City's dispatch service verses going to Volusia County Sheriff. After further analysis the cost to continue RCC is more effective therefore the Manager's will recommend to the governing board to approve the budget for next fiscal year. He commented on the draft budget summary, proposed operating budget for FY07/08 and the comparative cost/service analysis that he provided for their review. He thanked Fire Chief Barlow, Police Chief Taves and Tim Sopko for their efforts in coming together to present a true cost comparison. This was a pretty big task in a relatively short period of time. City Manager Williams commented on communications from several officers within the Police Department that have clearly expressed that the decision to file an unfair labor practice on behalf of the FOP and members of the Police Department are not representative of all the police Page 16 of28 Council Regular Meeting June 18, 2007 o o officers over there. They have come forward and expressed that in memo format to him. He thought it was extremely important to bring that to the Council's attention and the public. City Manager Williams then reported on the proposed property tax reform. They met during the Town Hall meeting. He appreciated the efforts of the Council, the citizens and the staff that came together to produce the Powerpoint Presentation. At that time they provided an update on the Legislative Session. Since then it has begun to finalize in terms of year one impacts to our ad valorem taxes. He thinks they are going to focus their efforts on a 10% reduction. By no means does that mean this issue is over. They have to keep in the back of their mind that there is going to be a constitutional amendment put before the voters on January 29th, which could have larger impacts to the services we provide today. He understood the employees are extremely apprehensive, nervous and scared and he is too but he thinks through his guidance and Council's guidance and the work of the departments, together they can come forward with solutions that minimize the impact we will have in this City. He assured the Council, the citizens and staff that they have talked internally in terms of an approach for this year's budget. They are going to take all capital and remove it from the budget. They are going to compile it in a separate list. They are going to take all frozen positions that are currently vacant and remove that and put it in a separate list. They will not fund those positions when they come back and make some initial presentations to the Council. If through those initial changes they find they have come up with $1.4 million, they will come back and start identifying some of those key priority positions and make recommendations as they traditionally do through the budget process to maybe refill those positions and go forward. This is not a one-year fix. They will be faced with this issue for multiple years. 1) Tentative Agenda Items There were no Tentative Agenda Items to be discussed at this time. 11. CITIZEN COMMENTS Page 17 of28 Council Regular Meeting June 18, 2007 o o Mayor Thomas recognized the City employees that were present at the meeting. He told them to feel free to come to the podium and speak their peace and he guaranteed them they would not be chastised in the future. The following citizens spoke: Mike Visconti, 316 Pine Breeze Drive, emphasized on what Councilwoman Lichter said about the City Hall on this site or across the street. He urged the Council to just see what we have here. Across the street would be a beautiful spot for City Hall. Once that is built across the street, they have the existing City Hall empty which could house the Police Department. He feels this is a great location. He commented on the telephone survey. According to the polls the voters are willing to make exception for the height of buildings such as libraries, City Hall, water plants and so on. He wanted to add to it to include light industrial business areas and the Edgewater Town Park. Also on the survey, the poll shows that 69% of the voters are in favor of a City Hall complex, but just a few are willing to pay for it. It also states that $16 million, the City would float a bond and 48% said they would go for the cost of $9 million. If they could get a dollar a day from the 69%, which is equivalent to $360 a year, they would have their City Hall and they would have their complex. Chris Balmer, 148 William Street, asked the cost of the survey. City Manager Williams informed him not to exceed $15,000. Mr. Balmer then asked what the shuffleboard net net in a perfect world would cost if everything works out, roughly. He asked if it was still around $250,000. City Manager Williams informed him it was. Councilwoman Rogers stated $250,000 on the shuffleboard, $250,000 that is going to be reimbursed back from FEMA and then the $190,000 of which was already received by the city for insurance. That is $443,000. City Manager Williams stated if he understood the question correctly it was netted out after. Mr. Balmer stated net net net at the end of the day what is it going to cost. Councilwoman Rogers stated another $250,000 on top of the $453,000. City Manager Williams stated he would have to go Page 18 of28 Council Regular Meeting June 18, 2007 o o back and pull the information and really look at it at this point. Mr. Balmer stated with those in mind that is why he is a confused taxpayer. Tonight they have talked about possibly selling utilities. At least looking at the idea because of the cost. They have talked about outsourcing police and fire, at least looking at the possibility. They have talked about selling ParkTowne to generate income looking at all the options. But then they talk about courts, $250,000, a survey $15,000 and a survey that asks about a $9 million City Hall. That is why they are confused. If they are talking about cut, cut cut and save save save, let's look at everything, which he agrees with, then why are they still talking about spend spend spend. He isn't saying it is right or wrong and he will help educate but that is what he hears and that is what he sees and that is the problem he hears on the street. Do we have money or do we not have money? Councilwoman Rogers stated the shuffleboard courts, it was clearly noted that those courts should have never been taken down in the first place. So do you correct a wrong with a continued wrong or do you do something to make it right? Do they have to expend this additional $250,000 on top of the $90,000 on top of the $253,000, absolutely no they don't. So there you have it. They don't have anything to start with and she isn't going to want to be spending all that additional money. Mr. Balmer stated that is just the big picture from their perspective. He is confused. Do they have money or do they not have money based on what they talk about? Carol Ann Stoughton, 2740 Evergreen Drive, stated they, nine years prior, had such a surplus. She thought it was something like $8.2 million. Right now we are down to $1.5 million because of mismanagement, poor decisions and the last City Manager who put us in debt with water meters for $15 million. They have surveys now because they aren't happy with the fact that they voted down the high rises. Let's start thinking about bringing jobs in here. Something to help our environment. Instead they have surveys. She wasn't called on a survey because they wouldn't want her answer. Yet the poor people that make under $50,000 have to worry about their jobs. She thought the City was still in debt for $43 million. Let's tell the Page 19 of28 Council Regular Meeting June 18, 2007 o o public what isn't being done, what hasn't been done and why they have to worry about their jobs. Let's try to get companies in here. Things have not been properly done over the past nine years. The people deserve more. They should know before the City does a survey how much the citizens are willing to go into debt. How can they ever get a City Hall? All they do is spend. They don't save. They don't tell the people what is really going on. It is time they started telling the truth and giving the people facts of their water bill as to the spending that is going on. The little guy that makes under $50,000, they are going to ask him to take a cut, ask him to give up sick time and give him less vacation time. That little guy runs this City. When she broke her hip the garbage guys carried her garbage cans up. They shouldn't be threatening them or worrying their families. It is a damn sin what is going on in this town and they should have been watching what has been going on over the past nine years and they didn't do it. Gigi Bennington, 121 Virginia Street, stated to address Police & Fire not paying their fair share by using more of the ad valorem tax. They don't have the economic development that New Smyrna and some of the other cities have that cover that. We don't have it because we don't have the businesses. We haven't been encouraging them like we should be. She applauded the Council for looking at alternative ways to raise money. When she served on the Council and they put in the capital improvement program, they looked at low-pressure sewer systems to see if they would be cost effective. With the response they got from that, you would have thought they were going to murder somebody and all they were doing was looking for the best deal for the people. She thinks they are on the right track by looking. She doesn't agree they should be selling any of our utilities. Don't penalize the police and fire because they do use more than their fair share of the ad valorem. It's not their fault. Councilwoman Rogers stated when she looks at stats and numbers and she sees the staffing at the Police Department has not increased since 1998 by roughly one to two people. She looks at the Fire Department and sees that staffing in some cases has doubled. You can't make a blanket statement and compare us to New Smyrna Beach. Not just the economic end of it but the fact that they have the beaches and the tourists. They don't have anything in front of them to compare. She is hearing that with ad valorem taxes other Page 20 of 28 Council Regular Meeting June 18,2007 o o cities go through the same thing that we do and that fire and police eat it up. Fine, show her. There are a lot of things they have to look at and the only reason she is pointing out fire and police is because that is what has been presented to her. When she looks at the number of people that are in the Fire Department compared to the Police Department, she is concerned. There is a lot of people. Ms. Bennington stated they have to remember fifteen to twenty years ago that they had a volunteer fire department. It was all volunteers and that is all they had. When they started the paid Fire Department, she thought they had ten men on there with the rest being supplemented by volunteers. They are going to see the Fire Department grow more than the police because the police wasn't manned by volunteers. councilwoman Rogers asked if this was in the last ten years. Ms. Bennington stated back in 1990. Councilwoman Rogers stated she was talking about 1998 through now. She is looking at Police Department personnel compared to Fire Department personnel. These are the stats that are provided to her. Fire Chief Tracey Barlow presented a history. The inception of the combination fire department, career and volunteer personnel, was in 1989. He wasn't sure what Councilwoman Rogers was looking at as far as personnel. If she was lumping all the volunteers which do not get in with the career. Currently they have 24 operational career personnel, with three vacant positions. He commented on seeing an influx of personnel in September or October of 2004 being due to staffing a third apparatus on the street. They also provide closest unit response services to the County to the tune of over $300,000 per year revenue. They need to factor and compare those as well as the revenue that offset the cost for those increases in personnel. Most recently they also have a reserve program. Those are volunteers that are state certified that can work in the place of career members. Those members don't receive any overtime hours. They are doing everything they possibly can to create those efficiencies. Over the last 28 day cycle, 326 hours were paid to the reserves who backfilled the career individuals verses hiring them back on overtime. He credited the career members. They have been extremely supportive of trying to help the entire City and himself Page 21 of28 Council Regular Meeting June 18,2007 o o through the budget crisis. The Department is probably about 40 members strong, combination. Councilwoman Rogers asked Fire Chief Barlow to look at the Town Hall meeting paperwork that was given to them. That is where she is getting her information from because that is what has been given to her. Fire Chief Barlow told her to be careful on the comparisons because on the budget comparisons the difference is they are about $500,000 verses a Fire Department alone being $50,000. It looked like a much larger difference. He made himself available to the Council to answer any of their questions. Councilwoman Rogers informed him she would like to talk to him further about it. Councilwoman Lichter stated she doesn't want in her mind to say there are x-many cops and x-many firemen. Sometimes the needs in a community are different at a given time. There was not the volume of crime, drugs, etc. when our Police Department has risen up and grown. There were forest fires and hurricanes that the firemen had to be involved in and also an increasing senior population who they have to turnout for in a minutes notice. She thinks it is by need, not by numbers that they have to look at the situation. Our firemen are going and making money by going into a County type of setup. If the police situation increases, they are going to get what they need. They don't have to be equal. Let's look at them both for their individual needs and stop thinking they are the same by exact man or woman power. Councilwoman Rogers stated no one compared them in that manner. What they are talking about is as the population increased, the police staffing did not increase by very much but the fire department staffing did. She would think as population increases that yes their safety needs increase also but in the realm of crime and whatnot that also increases. They just have to look at the numbers and talk about this further. Mayor Thomas asked how many people in the room felt secure about going out after dark. He saw on the news the other day they interviewed a lady in Orlando that said she didn't feel safe about going out after dark. He feels this shows our police officers and public safety are doing their job. He feels very safe in this community. Page 22 of 28 Council Regular Meeting June 18, 2007 o o Linda Small, 1629 Willow Oak Drive, stated she wanted to bring their attention to the fact that as they know we should be in a fact finding mode getting ready for the budgeting process and the only time they should be fearful in a fact finding mode is if they are afraid of what they are going to find. There is no reason to be afraid of what you are going to find. Regarding police and fire, every single line item in the budget needs to be reviewed for potential change. Maybe cut, maybe increased, maybe it stays the same but it needs to be reviewed for change. It doesn't mean that when you go out and get an estimate from Volusia County to provide fire and police services that they are going to do that. It may be worse or may be better. How can they make the choice if they don't have the data? She knows it is a very unpopular position to go out and do that. She understand that many people sitting here have lived here for many years and there are very close relationships and she too appreciates the good work the police and firemen do. That doesn't mean they should be hamstrung from reviewing other opportunities. She doesn't understand why they are all unwilling to at least step out there and look at that. What is the danger of knowing the information? As professional leaders of this City, don't they have an obligation to know all the information so they can make a decision or recommendation. Nothing may come from it but why are they afraid to ask. That is more important than anything else. She supports the local firefighters and local police and she is a law- abiding citizen and she is a property taxpayer and she doesn't have a problem knowing the information. In addition to a huge chunk of labor costs for public safety officers, there are great synergies and efficiencies to be gained from cross utilization of equipment and facilities. It's not just about the labor even though that is the biggest piece. She wants the Council to know there shouldn't be any sacred cows ever in this process and it doesn't mean they are going to change anything to get the information. She hopes they will reconsider their position. Under the public information act, they found out that last year the City of Edgewater, in spite of all the presentations last Saturday, did purchase 26 new vehicles. There are 26 new vehicles out there somewhere. Councilwoman Lichter stated she personally thinks there is more than just numbers involved and number facts. She Page 23 of28 Council Regular Meeting June 18,2007 o o thinks if they want to look at number facts, they must look at the intangibles as well. That is why she considers herself a generalist. She isn't afraid of the facts and figures except for waste of time but she knows living here the years she has the pluses that can't be measured by facts and figures. This happened when they were thinking of going outside the City and not with the local employees for garbage pick up. She received 2,000 signatures from people in this City that said maybe it is cheaper the other way but they want to keep the service they have because of the extras they do for people. The intangibles also have to be part of a community. She looks at the whole picture. When you come back with just numbers, sometimes it isn't enough and you get what is on paper and not what really happens. That is why she thinks how she thinks. Councilman Vincenzi felt Councilwoman Lichter was right. There are numbers and then there are services provided. As far as police and fire are concerned, if he thought for a minute the County could provide as good service or better service, he would look at them. He didn't think this was possible. The Fire Department provides services to the County. The Police Department responds to calls that the Sheriff's office wouldn't even consider going to. He doesn't know if it would cost more or less but he is happy with the public safety services the way they are. Mayor Thomas stated if there was something out there to compare it with that he thought was equitable then he would say yes. You can not compare the services you will get from going with the County either with fire services or with the sheriff's department than what we have right here. You cannot do that. Councilwoman Rogers stated she made mention under her report earlier in the meeting of the intangibles and that is something they need to look at after they look at the numbers. Ad valorem taxes, police and fire are not covered. Therefore a million dollar transfer from Water & Sewer fund, therefore debt continues to grow. That is where she is coming from. If they want to have a millage increase, then they won't look into anything. That is pretty much where they are going to be. Pat Card, 3019 Willow Oak Drive, stated he heard something tonight that disturbs him. That is the way that sloppy budgeting processes work. That is they will go up or they Page 24 of28 Council Regular Meeting June 18,2007 o o will go down or stay the same. Good budgeting processes start with a zero balance and say how much does it cost. What does each element of it cost? Earlier they heard that our esteemed state government wants us to put budgeting into our planning process. That is what budgets are all about. If you don't have a plan, you can't have a budget. If you don't have a budget, your plan isn't worth a damn. If he were in the Council's shoes and wanted to look at where they really are, he would look at how they compare with other options. He would look at what our zero balance budgeting process ought to look like. Michael Hayes, 3123 Woodland Drive, on behalf of the Edgewater Professional Firefighters, stated they have started their review on the City of Edgewater final budget report from the year 2007 located on the City web page. They have already noted a disproportionate jump on the Chart titled Fire Operations on Page 45 of the City report. The disproportionate jump was due to the access starting point set at $1.7 million and not at zero. The Fire Operations Chart was the only chart out of 27 that the access point was not set at zero. A quick visual review of the Chart published by the City would falsely indicate and almost doubling in expenditures in one year. They created a new chart with the same data only the starting access was changed to zero as to allow for accurate visual impression and to also bring the chart format in line with all other charts in the report. When they started this union, they said they want factual information given to the public on all employees. It is not being delivered out that way. He informed Councilwoman Rogers he pulled public record requests for her because she stated there were seven employees of the Fire Department that made $100,000 take home. False lead one more time. If they have a question regarding any of the departments, they need to contact the department heads. Councilwoman Rogers informed him they couldn't. only go through the City Manager. They can City Manager Williams explained the Charter provides provisions for finding of facts. Council folks can do it for inquiry purposes. His understanding is the Charter prohibits the Council from providing direction. Mr. Hayes stated any Councilperson is allowed to educate themselves on any department but can't tell them which Page 25 of 28 Council Regular Meeting June 18, 2007 o o avenue to take. He asked if this was true. City Manager Williams informed him they couldn't provide direction. He urged the Council to contact Fire Chief Barlow or the union. They want the citizens and the City employees to have factual information out. As soon as he gets the public records request he will prove another thing that wasn't factual. Mayor Thomas asked Councilwoman Rogers if she wanted to respond. Councilwoman Rogers informed him no, she wanted to see the information. She was glad Mr. Hayes got up and she thanked him. Dave Ross, 2803 Needle Palm Drive, stated there have been mistakes made and it is always easy to blame today's problems and tomorrow future on somebody else's mistakes. There is an element that is at the root of the seriousness of Edgewater's problems. It is not anybody's fault. We don't have the commercial and industrial base to support the residents we have. Demographics is a major element of it. It is the way Southeast Volusia County developed over the years. He can't blame any City Manager. He suggested to Council that a priority issue that be on their agenda at least once a month is what can they do to get commercial into the City of Edgewater. The solution to the problem is more business in the City. Mr. Ross stated he loves the garbage people. He can set his clock by them. He commented on an instance where there was a new man on the truck that dumped his lid in the back of the truck and the guy was looking to see if anybody saw him do it. Bill Glasser, 1703 Needle Palm Drive, stated he is not afraid to go out at night. There was a gentleman, David Mitchum, who was a councilman that noted that Florida Shores already kicks in the lions share of impact fees that nearly all construction in Edgewater is going on in the subdivision and that impact fees from the community are paying for the City's new water plant that helps everybody. Of those items he read off that were being considered as part of the capital improvement problem back then, he thinks the Sewer Plant and Water Plant and some of the other items that were done benefit all of the people of Edgewater, not just Florida Shores. He expressed his appreciation for the capital improvements that were put in Florida Shores. Page 26 of 28 Council Regular Meeting June 18, 2007 o o Jim Sylvester, 2209 Orange Tree Drive, stated commercial development is the key to our future. Let's not worry about bench marking the Police, the Fire and the garbagemen. It is obvious no one wants to change those things. They must resolve the budget problem. They can resole the budget problem by getting commercial development within the City limits. This will raise our tax base and will not have an adverse affect on anybody. He understands right now that there is controversy about Edgewater Boats leaving. This is a major taxpayer in our City. What is the Council doing to try to retain them and get a WalMart or Kmart or something like that in town? We need leadership. The leadership has to come from the Council. That is part of the City Charter. City Manager Williams cannot do it on his own. He requires the Council's leadership. Mayor Thomas stated as far as the tax reform, what he understands is it looked like to him that they were giving businesses a tax reduction and people who own their second home a tax reduction. Are they really going to get that tax base if they bring businesses in here? City Manager Williams stated he thought some of the details are yet to be ironed out. His understanding at this point is for the immediate tax relief statutorily they are looking at about a 9% reduction in comparison to 2006/2007 roll back rate. Obviously as those figures increase due to new construction, there will probably be some addressing of that percentage one way or the other. He understands there is a reduction for $25,000 in tangible personal property tax and some other provisions that are incorporated into the statutory reductions that are to take effect October 1, 2007 and then obviously the rest of the amendments will be brought forward in terms of a constitutional amendment and placed before the voters for final adoption on January 29, 2008. Mayor Thomas stated he would do some research on that too. It looked to him like the way they had it planned it was giving a big tax cut to the businesses and the person who owned a second home. The ones that really could afford it. He didn't think anything was written in stone. It is too early to report. At this time commercial and industrial would bring a bigger tax base. City Manager Williams stated he has had some conversation with Edgewater Power Page 27 of 28 Council Regular Meeting June 18, 2007 o (.) Boats and they are actively working with Volusia County's Department of Economic Development trying to address incentives to keep Edgewater Power boats within the City of Edgewater. They have had some very positive discussions. He commented on what other states are providing as far as incentives to take them out of the State of Florida, it is a very tough competition. It involves some serious money. He has had some very good talks with those representatives. Mr. Sylvester stated he was instrumental in bringing a company to Henderson County, North Carolina. Henderson County, North Carolina gave them 250 acres of land to build a factory there. They gave them the water and the sewer but in exchange they had to give Henderson County 900 good paying jobs with an annual budget of over $2.5 billion. Sometimes you can give away a little bit and get a lot in exchange. Councilwoman Lichter stated she hears criticisms of the industrial park sitting there almost every meeting. She thinks the industrial park had great potential. What the City promised them was what the City could afford. It was the first time she lived here in 15 years that New Smyrna was jealous of Edgewater about something. Sometimes it takes money to make money. She will not feel ever guilty about supporting the Industrial Park, which has been damned recently at almost every meeting. In the beginning it may have seemed slow but it would have escalated. This should be a boating community. It is noted for that. There were many side industries that could have tied into that. She doesn't feel sorry for supporting the Industrial Park and she feels they didn't give it a chance to do what it could have done. 12 . ADJOURNMENT There being no further business to discuss, Mayor Thomas adjourned the meeting. The meeting adjourned at 8:50 p.m. Minutes submitted by: Lisa Bloomer Page 28 of 28 Council Regular Meeting June 18, 2007