09-11-2006 - Regular
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CITY COUNCIL OF EDGEWATER
REGULAR MEETING
SEPTEMBER 11, 2006
9:57 P.M.
COMMUNITY CENTER
MINUTES
1. CALL TO ORDER
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Mayor Thomas called the Regular Meeting to order at 9:57
p.m. in the Community Center.
ROLL CALL
Mayor Michael Thomas
Councilwoman Debra Rogers
Councilman Dennis Vincenzi
Councilwoman Harriet Rhodes
Councilwoman Judith Lichter
City Manager Jon Williams
Assistant City Attorney Nicholas Palmer
City Clerk Susan Wadsworth
INVOCATION, PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE
Present
Present
Present
Present
Present
Present
Present
Present
There was a silent invocation and pledge of allegiance to
the Flag.
2. APPROVAL OF MINUTES
A. Regular Meeting of August 7, 2006
Councilwoman Lichter moved to approve the August 7, 2006
minutes, second by Councilwoman Rhodes.
The MOTION CARRIED 5 - 0 .
3. PRESENTATION/PROCLAMATIONS/PLAQUES/CERTIFICATES/DONA
TIONS
There were no Presentations at this time.
4. CITIZEN COMMENTS
There were no Citizen Comments at this time.
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5. CITY COUNCIL REPORTS
Councilwoman Rogers had nothing at this time.
Councilman vincenzi had nothing at this time.
Councilwoman Rhodes stated she only had one comment and it
was made by Karen during the break. She said we haven't
even approving the budget and we are already over budget.
She thought that was a very astute comment.
Councilwoman Lichter commented on a public hearing she
attended regarding the widening of 1-95. She got a letter
back about the project. They appreciated her support and
asked her to be assured that they would forward her
comments to the appropriate staff members within D.O.T. for
their review and consideration. That was when she told
them we didn't have an east-west escape route. They are
going to send that comment to the right department.
Nothing may happen with that anyway because they have been
trying to do that for years. She raised a question that
she thought City Manager Williams should follow through
with. They talked about the replacement of a bridge at SR
442 and 1-95. She was concerned that their representation
indicated it was in New Smryna Beach. When they say SR 442
she doesn't think of New Smyrna Beach. It is Edgewater.
When in reality it is in Edgewater they say. The slide
indicated that the northbound and southbound 1-95 Bridge
would be replaced. She asked City Manager Williams if he
knew what they were talking about. She didn't. The letter
stated this may have been the cause of her confusion. It
was not actually donating its location. She handed the
letter to City Manager Williams and asked if he could check
with D.O.T. and then maybe they could find out
northbound/southbound, where is the bridge they are talking
about. City Manager Williams agreed to research it.
Councilwoman Lichter stated for those that don't know 1-95
is going to be widened to four-lanes and the two extra
lanes are going to be in the middle. They didn't know
about two proposed developments that are going to be on the
side of the road with that either. Maybe something will
come of it, maybe not.
6. PUBLIC HEARINGS, ORDINANCES AND RESOLUTIONS
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A. 2nd Reading, Ord. No. 2006-0-27, staff
recommending proposed text amendments to the Land
Development Code, cont. from 8/7/06, Item 6D
Assistant City Attorney Palmer read Ord. 2006-0-27 into the
record.
Mayor Thomas asked City Manager Williams to explain to the
public how they got to this point. That it was proposed at
the last meeting and the City Council went through it item
by item and made suggestions.
City Manager Williams explained during the first reading,
the City Council reviewed the proposed changes that were
recommended by the Planning & Zoning Board. Upon review of
each item, they made recommendations and motions as to what
they would like to have in the proposed changes for the
Land Development Code. As a result, they have their
recommendations before Council tonight for second reading
for final approval of the proposed changes. Staff is
prepared to address the Council's position on the proposed
Land Development Code changes and they can also bring
forward the Planning & Zoning Board's comments. It is
Council's pleasure on which direction they would like staff
to proceed.
Development Services Director Darren Lear went over the
proposed changes to the Land Development that were approved
by the City Council at the August 7, 2006 Council meeting.
Mr. Lear went over the concern made by Councilman Vincenzi
regarding the vested rights determination at the beginning
of Article I being in conflict with Page 1-11, Section 21-
12 Effective Date. It is staff's recommendation since that
conflicts with the vested rights determination that the
first sentence be made to go in line with at least the
October 1, 2006, if not sooner than that date and that they
strike the second sentence altogether.
City Manager Williams stated they also discussed the
language in further detail describing effective
immediately, that if it is Council's intention to have it
effective immediately that they replace that language with
today's date if it is their intention to approve these
changes and describe September 11, 2006 as the effective
date. Mr. Lear further explained that change would need to
be made throughout Article I.
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Mr. Lear mentioned that staff had spoken to City Attorney
Paul Rosenthal and Assistant City Attorney Palmer regarding
the PUD's and the 35-foot height restriction. It is their
interpretation that to get a waiver from that, they would
have to come back and do another Land Development Code Text
Amendment. There isn't anything in this Code that provides
a variance to that.
Councilwoman Lichter asked if the same applies to Number 8.
Mr. Lear informed her any set restriction that is put in
the PUD, they would have to change the text in the Land
Development Code.
City Manager Williams stated they asked that question based
off of the previous discussion where they had talked about
potential of a variance process and how they would achieve
that variance process. This is the only way you can do it
with regard to the BPUD's, RPUD's, and IPUD's.
Councilwoman Lichter asked if they are voting on these as a
whole or if they were going to take them separately.
Councilwoman Rhodes stated they are voting on it as a
whole. They already voted on each item separately.
Mayor Thomas asked for Council comments.
Councilwoman Rogers stated she didn't have much to say at
this point because they have talked about and discussed
these items. What they have here is what they have here.
Councilman Vincenzi stated he feels the same as
Councilwoman Rogers but with the change in Section 21-12,
Effective Date, did he have to make a motion on that.
Assistant City Attorney Palmer recommended if that is the
only change, the motion to approve, if that is the motion
that is heard, be subject to that change being worked out,
being subject to that change they just discussed.
Councilman Vincenzi stated so they are looking at these
changes right now and they would come back to this or make
the motion to include this.
Assistant City Attorney Palmer recommended making the final
motion to approve being subject to and conditioned upon
Section 21-12 being changed as previously discussed.
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Councilman Vincenzi stated when the times comes to make a
motion he would like to see the effective date changed to
September 11th in Section 21-12 and throughout the document
and the second sentence deleted.
Councilwoman Rhodes stated they have worked on this a long
time and she didn't have any problem with most of it. She
still is of the belief that you can control growth with
density, not with lot size. She doesn't like that they are
tying their hands with the PUD's. She feels they are able
to get some much-needed benefits for the City when they are
allowed to negotiate a PUD, when you are allowed to trade
off. You can get roads and land and other things. She was
opposed to tying their hands with that. Other than that
she doesn't have a problem with it.
Councilwoman Lichter stated she would be voting against the
whole thing because it is combined because she is
definitely against seven and eight. Being able to see the
personality, conformation, and uniqueness of a lot is
killed by this definite determination. Before a City
Council had the option of negotiating with the developer.
This will now lead to sprawl. She believes in Smart
Growth. She'has worked on many committees with Smart
Growth. They came up with a pretty good Smart Growth Plan
and part of that plan was to at least let cities like us
have some say in each lot because every lot is different.
This is sprawl to her and not taking into mind good growth.
She also spoke of losing their negotiating abilities. She
feels they have taken away. It takes a certain flexibility
of nature and a certain being able to have skills that can
switch degrees back and forth but it also takes a thinking
of people. She is saying that especially in the eighth
one. They have worked with developers in the past and if
every lot has to be 75 feet, they are taking away from some
people that like lots smaller than 75 feet. She feels they
have to think of people and not just numbers. They need to
be flexible and intelligent enough to say they can be
flexible. Because they are all lumpe~ together, she will
be voting against this. She doesn't believe in seven and
eight.
Mayor Thomas opened up the public hearing.
The following citizens spoke:
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Dave Ross, Needle Palm Drive, stated he had a question
regarding the 35-foot PUD. If they pass this and if the
Charter amendment that you all have proposed that would
allow certain exceptions for 35-foot, such as commercial
and industrial, will that Charter amendment override this
or will they still be prohibited by the Land Development
Code even though the Charter amendment says you may have
it. Councilman vincenzi stated the Charter prevails. Mr.
Ross stated so this is a moot point. If the revised or the
Charter amendment that you are proposing passes, he didn't
understand why Council was proposing both. They are
talking out of both side of their mouth. He understood
this should pertain to residential. He had no problem with
this. If they didn't want to limit commercial and
industrial to 35 feet, if they have a commercial PUD, they
are saying no if a guy wants to build a 38-foot tall
building and he didn't understand this. He would like the
Council to discuss it because he would like to know what
their logic is.
Mr. Ross stated he has recommended to Council that they
incorporate minimum standards for RPUD's, which would set
minimum percentages for lot widths of less than 75 feet.
Allowing no lots of less than 75 feet does not accomplish
any of the following. It will not control growth nor
reduce density. These two can only be managed by allowing
development on buildable land, not in swamps and minimizing
or reducing or setting low density when the property is
zoned, that is how you control density and control growth.
It will not provide for diversity of housing and legitimate
needs for smaller lots. It will not prevent the
unnecessary clear cutting of land nor the encroachment of
development into areas, which should be preserved. Again
these can only be managed by appropriate codes. Setting
minimum standards for RPUD's will accomplish this. Minimum
standards are just that. They can be more restrictive on a
case-by-case basis as the Council deems necessary or
appropriate but they can't be more lenient. The standards
will advise property owners and developers up front that
the City allows no less and if properly worded will give
proper notice that very tight controls will be imposed on
all new developments. The standards will continue to
provide for the flexibility that is a very positive aspect
of PUD's while eliminating the open ended, whatever you ask
goes, that they have had in the past. There is one thing
the seventy-five foot lot width will accomplish. It will
send all new development into the cities of Oak Hill and
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New Smyrna and we will still get the same impact with no
tax results and absolutely no control over the growth.
Both of these cities are willing to take in all the big
developments they can get real quick. He asked Council not
to forfeit their right and responsibility to manage this
City's growth.
City Manager Williams stated in reference to the height
restriction in the Charter, if Charter amendments pass you
could always be more restrictive in the Land Development
Code. Certainly as they have had numerous discussions
referencing commercial, industrial, public/semi-public, if
they provide for some exceptions within the Charter and
they don't place a height cap, at that point they can
address it in the Land Development Code with height caps
and that is really where that should be addressed.
Brad Jones, owner of A S D Properties, stated he just got
to listen to the citizens of Edgewater complain about taxes
and why they are having to pay so much. He currently is
trying to develop affordable income housing for the
citizens of Edgewater and he keeps coming up against a
brick wall. The brick wall is the City of Edgewater. He
is a businessman and busts his hump just like everybody
else does. He could only be in business if he makes money.
He can't be in business by charging higher taxes because he
has no one to charge higher taxes to. He feels if they
pass the 75-foot width lot, they are putting undue
restrictions on developers who cannot come in, buy
property, develop property and sell it for $90,000. There
are no $90,000 homes in Florida Shores anymore. There are
no $90,000 lots. A lot of people don't live on the river
and don't look at their homes as investments. That is the
last place they are going to spend the rest of their lives.
They aren't looking for a place that is going to appreciate
in value. They are looking for a place they can live the
rest of their lives and not have to worry about how they
are going to pay their taxes, their mortgages, their
medicine and their food. At seventy-five foot wide lots,
they won't have any more affordable housing in this town.
He won't build it because it isn't profitable. The reason
this Country runs the way it does is economics. People
only invest money when they make money. If they can't make
money they won't invest money in this City or any other
city. He spoke of developers going where they can make
things happen. He wants to give the City thousands of
dollars in impact fees. He wont' give them impact fees if
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he can't have something that is profitable. Certain PUD's
do not impact the City. Private communities, like Hacienda
del Rio, private roads, private sewers, private everything
but you have all these people that spend money in Edgewater
that won't come to Edgewater if they put all these
restrictions on builders and everybody else. If they vote
this through, they kill this town. We will look like every
other town where everything is just walked away from it.
Bill Glasser, 1703 Needle Palm Drive, commented on the new
buzz words with the developers. If it isn't conservation
corridors, or whatever they are going to leave all of the
wildlife for you to enjoy. It's workforce housing being
affordable. The guy that was here from Halifax
Homebuilders said the $170,000 was affordable housing for
worker bees. Some guy is building ten houses on an acre in
New Smyrna is going to charge $140,000 for the worker bee.
He asked if anyone has gotten on the internet or gone to a
bank and said they make $35,000, which is medium income in
this County, how much house can I buy. Councilwoman Rogers
estimated $120,000 to $150,000. Mr. Glasser informed her
what he found was $50,000 to $65,000. That is a worker
bee's house. Mr. Glasser stated the fifty-foot lots in
Coral Trace that go for $100,000 just for the lot, how many
worker bees are going to afford that. He spoke about
negotiating with developers on the PUD's. It sounds to him
like they are extorting something out of a builder or a
developer. He built a house in Florida Shores in 1966. He
used to have deer, wild pigs, raccoons, and whippoorwills.
He hasn't seen a deer in fifteen years. He hasn't seen a
raccoon or a possum. As soon as these folks move in and
see these animals they are going to want them either moved
or killed. What they don't move or kill they will run over
with their car. Don't give us this crap about preserving
the wildlife while you tear the hell out of everything in
the country. The builder extorts stuff out of the City.
I'll pay you so much money to let me kill all your damn
gopher turtles instead of having them move the gopher
turtles.
Carol Ann Stoughton, 2740 Evergreen Drive, stated this is
her town. She lives on an eighty-foot lot and she loves it
in Florida Shores. She thinks a lot of other people have a
120' lot. That is what we want. We don't want developers
coming in our town and running our town because they are
going to give us land for a City Hall. That is probably
because they can't use the land because it is under water
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and they are going to ask the City to fill it. She then
commented on Toyota building prefab housing and their
houses are going to start at $227,000 and they are calling
them affordable housing. She stated right now Pelican Bay
can't even afford the maintenance fees there and now
another developer has gone in and is buying a golf course
and tennis courts and therefore they will build more
houses. Houses do not bring lower taxes. They bring the
need for more schools and more roads. They must consider
that Volusia County wants to be in charge of our water now.
If Hammock Creek goes in, which that isn't even supposed to
be built there because the State said you shouldn't build
it there, but the developers want to bring it there because
they say it is going to lower taxes. When she went out
with the petitions, nobody out of 3,000 people they talked
to don't want high-rises or anything other 35 feet. A
Target is not over 35-feet and neither is the hospital. If
you think Bert Fish is coming here to build a hospital
guess what? They can't even run the hospital they have
because they are in such bad shape. Her concern is
remember what is going on in Pelican Cove. These
developers are not caring about our City and our needs.
u.S. #1 is loaded with traffic. So is SR 442. They just
went through two years of having that widened. Who is
going to pay for the road when it has to go our to Hammock
Creek? She doesn't appreciating any City Manager trying to
push them into another petition and running to Ann McFall
and setting up another item on the ballot because that is
what she heard he did. She would like that clarified. She
felt their petition spoke for the people.
Dot Carlson, 1714 Edgewater Drive, representing ECARD,
agreed with Mr. Glasser and Ms. Stoughton.
Ms. Carlson asked if this was the second reading on this.
Assistant City Attorney Palmer informed her yes.
Ms. Carlson asked if there was a first reading approved.
Assistant City Attorney Palmer informed her yes. Ms.
Carlson asked if this was a change to the first reading
approved. Assistant City Attorney Palmer stated he
believed those were the amendments that the Council made
prior to adopting the. Ms. Carlson stated so there hasn't
been any change to this since the first reading. Assistant
City Attorney Palmer stated except for the change that was
made previously having to do with the effective date in
Section 21-12 for vested rights. Ms. Carlson asked if that
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was legal after they have had a first reading.
Councilwoman Rhodes stated they approved it at the first
meeting with the changes. They asked for the changes to be
brought back at the second reading.
Ms. Carlson asked Councilman Vincenzi to explain vested
rights for her. Councilman Vincenzi stated vested rights
are defined and maybe the Attorney could define it better.
When a development is in the final stages of submitting
plans, they acquire vested rights. They have already gone
through the process of buying the land, possibly changing
it a little bit. Ms. Carlson stated so he is ready to go
and he's got what he's got. She stated so whatever they've
got on the works they get today. Councilman Vincenzi
stated not everybody has vested rights. Only if you have
gone through the application and permitting process to a
certain degree.
Ms. Carlson informed Councilwoman Lichter on her comment
that every lot is different. Every lot is different.
Unfortunately the people on Jones Fish Camp Road found out
that every lot is different and they are going to get some
condos.
Ms. Carlson informed Councilwoman Rhodes she was right.
Sprawl is not good and you can control sprawl with density
and the net usage, the land. If you've got swamp, you
don't touch it. Councilwoman Rhodes stated and they have
that in there. Ms. Carlson stated and she appreciates it.
Bill Klein, Central Mariners Drive, stated he just moved
from Ohio seven months ago and he has been in the real
estate business about eighteen years. From what he has
heard tonight, if they adopt this they will have more
problems. He came from a town that was very similar in
size and very similar to the County and City government
that we have. positive growth is the best thing you could
ever have. You can't take away people's rights to own
property. If you limit the size of these lots, there are
people that won't be able to afford housing. They are also
going to kill the tax base by keeping people out. There is
,nothing wrong with positive growth. The best thing that
could happen to this City is positive growth. There is
nothing wrong with condominiums. There is nothing wrong
with this kind of stuff. If it is done right and done
proper it will benefit the City. If they adopt this,
especially number seven and eight, they are killing
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themselves. They are going to have more problems in the
future trying to meet the budgets and trying to pay the
bills.
Jim Scott, General Counsel, Sea Gate Companies, stated they
own land in Edgewater that was annexed in. There is a
State law that defines vested rights and he feels it is
important that they compare and make consistent if they can
the definition of vested rights that they are going to put
in the ordinance with that State law. The courts are
working on that definition in State law as they sit. They
might want to try to get those consistent. There are some,
including the company he works for, that had land that
wasn't in the City but annexed into the City under beliefs,
under discussions with the City about what they would be
able to do. Now the rug is kind of being taken out from
under them with the date they are picking and how they are
defining what vested rights are. Those of them that relied
on what the City was going to let them do, even though
their applications are pending and they aren't all the way
up to the point of a development order, they should be
allowed to be grandfathered in as part of those vesting
rights. That is just fair. It is a different story if you
are someone who comes in and buys land now that is in the
City or comes in and wants to be annexed now and they see
and know and are aware the Code is changing. They had no
idea this was going to happen when they annexed in. He
suggested they consider in a fairness sort of thing to make
a broader definition of what would be vested in.
Ted Brown, Attorney for GS Florida, stated tonight they
have a measure in front of them which represents at some
level what he is sure some on the Councilor all of the
Council believe is the best way to secure the future of
Edgewater. He was here tonight as a representative of not
only the largest land owner in this City but probably the
company that has invested more of its capital in excess of
$100 million in the City. He doesn't think as he drives
through Edgewater that any other individual or company has
ever come to this municipality and spend that kind of
money. They invested that money in response to a vision,
which was articulated by this Council. It was articulated
when the City annexed this land. They said it would be a
mix of residential, commercial and conservation land use.
They said it would be low and medium density residential,
which they calculated to be 7,000 units. They projected
500 acres of retail office and general commercial. They
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estimated 750,000 square feet of commercial space and they
asked for 2,120 acres of conservation area. It is against
that backdrop that they invested $100 million to buy land
and come to Edgewater. Six months ago when they came to
the City, they came and began a process with Edgewater, New
Smyrna Beach and Volusia County to figure out how it was
that they could jointly develop this project to meet the
expectations that they articulated in the annexation
ordinance. Tonight he doesn't ask them to adopt his
version of a changed vision. It is evident by what they
have in front of them. He asked them to step back from the
path they are on and indefinitely table this matter. They
have the right to say no to them or anybody that comes in
front of them but the adoption of this proposal tonight if
implemented as it is set forth will not allow the vision
that was contained in the annexation ordinance. It is not
physically possible on that land. They have just this past
Friday filed the application for development approval.
Mayor Thomas informed Mr. Brown he hated to cut him off.
He asked him to wrap it up real quick. Mr. Brown asked for
the Council's indulgence to make the points he is making.
Councilwoman Lichter felt when you invest that kind of
money in something you thought you were going to
accomplish, he should be able to continue.
Councilwoman Rhodes stated it isn't about money. You are
entitled to the same thing everybody else is entitled to.
Mayor Thomas had no problem with one of his representatives
speaking for three minutes. Mr. Brown asked if he could
speak for them. Mayor Thomas informed him no, sorry.
Thank you very much.
Shannon Julian, 1625 Taylor Road, Port Orange, stated she
had a couple things she would like to bring forward on
behalf of the Volusia County Association for Responsible
Development and the Volusia County Home Builders
Association. Ms. Julian read a prepared statement into the
record and provided Council with a copy.
Ms. Julian read as representatives of the building and
development communities, we appreciate your concerns with
land development issues and efforts to upgrade your codes
so that you can make your City the most productive that you
can. However, as we've stated in previous workshops and
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hearings our committee of professionals, mixed
professionals, strongly believes some of the Code
amendments being proposed are contrary to sound land use
planning principles. Outside of the letter she would like
to state the Economic Development Board wasn't in strong
favor of the changes. Your own Planning Board wasn't in
favor of the changes the way they were on the board and yet
they move forward. Back to the letter. As Volusia County
Association for Responsible Development and the volusia
County Homebuilders Association we caution that the changes
could be leading to some of the things they have talked
about already. Sprawl, inadequate preservation of green
space and conservation laws, problems with housing
affordability, long term tax base. She has heard them say
they have inherited some of the problems. She thinks in
five years they will be standing here listening to we've
inherited these problems with the land code. At the
September 11th final hearing today, we once more urge you to
reconsider the adoption of these amendments and first hear
input from objective planning, environmental and
engineering professionals with agencies such as the Water
Management District or Regional Planning Councils that
don't have a vested interest in the City like some of the
developers do. She was voted to be the Chairman because
she doesn't have any big development issues here. She
works on both sides. She works for the County of Volusia
when they are doing stuff that needs environmental work and
she also works for the developers when they need
environmental work. She tries to bridge the gap. That is
her job as a consultant. But once again, members of our
association really would welcome the opportunity to provide
them with the thing they offered in the beginning,
education and help to lead the discussion and come up with
a balance. She has heard Dot & Carol. She understands
their concerns. She understands the concerns from what
they consider this side of the room, which is why she sat
on the other side for a change. There has to be some
middle ground from what you are hearing. She didn't know
that this does that. She thanked Council for their
consideration once again and for listening to her once
again. As the joint committee, she wished the Council the
best in moving forward.
Greg Blossett, Director of Government Affairs, Volusia Home
Builders Association, 3520 West International Speedway
Boulevard, Daytona Beach, stated from the beginning the
Homebuilders Association has told them that the proposed
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changes to the Land Development Code will encourage sprawl,
are environmentally dangerous and would severely impact the
development communities ability to construct affordable
workforce housing. It is interesting to see that after a
three hour discussion they had earlier this evening on how
Edgewater residents can't afford a tax increase and costs
are rising and the belt is tightening on their purse
strings, that they are still sitting there voting on
restrictions this evening that will most definitely result
in higher housing costs, as much as 35% according to a
recent study from the Department of Housing and urban
Development that was conducted in 2005. They are
legitimately concerned about affordable housing. Along
with the realtors, they were one of the founding partners
in establishing the Sidowski act in 1992, which leads to
how you fund your SHIP programs. They have been in the
community for over fifty years in this County battling for
affordable and workforce housing and that is why they are
here doing what they are doing. They understand the
Council's concerns with controlling growth. They w~re part
of the Smart Growth Implementation Committee. Nothing
about what all of the professionals who get paid to look at
developing communities and land development see anything
smart about the way that Edgewater is going to grow from
here on out. He reiterated their concern with affordable
housing and the direction the Council is heading in.
Robert Lott, 2112 S. Riverside Drive, stated he isn't a
developer. He owns one piece of property that he lives on.
He has four generations of his family currently living in
this town. He has no vested interest in rampant growth.
What he hears tonight scares the hell out of him. It is a
very emotional issue and he understands that. Everybody
behind him thinks they are doing the right thing and they
are passionate about it or they wouldn't be sitting there
at 11:00. They can't cut people off. They have to listen
to what they have to say. He felt cutting Mr. Brown off
was irresponsible in his opinion. He wanted to hear what
he had to say. He felt they should allow him to come up
and say his peace.
Mayor Thomas stated they try to be fair and give everyone
the same amount of time.
Mike Stull, 1401 S. Ridgewood Avenue, Suite 5, stated he is
a twenty plus year resident and business owner in
Edgewater. He is trying to figure out and he has a
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development going that should be at the next Planning &
Zoning Board meeting and he is trying to figure out whether
he has vested interest. He asked if somebody could explain
that for him. Mr. Lear informed him not at this point.
Mr. Stull then stated he doesn't have any vested interest
after multiple sit-downs with the City. Mr. Lear stated
unless he had a development approval by Council, he doesn't
have any.
Mayor Thomas closed the public hearing.
Mayor Thomas entertained a motion. He would like to see in
the motion one amendment that was made tonight that wasn't
made the other night.
Councilman Vincenzi made a motion that they approve the
changes to the Land Development Code as stated on August
7th and additionally make the change in Section 21-12,
effective date. Change the first sentence to say these
regulations shall be effective date September 11, 2006 and
to delete the last sentence in that paragraph and also make
all dates consistent throughout Article I, second by
Councilwoman Rogers.
The MOTION CARRIED 3 -2. Councilwoman Rhodes and
Councilwoman Lichter voted NO.
B. Public Hearing, the City of Edgewater requesting
Amendment No. 1 to the Development Agreement for
ParkTowne Industrial Center
City Manager Williams made a staff presentation by
discussing the proposed amendments to the Development
Agreement for ParkTowne with regard to excluding .9~ acres
of property from the ParkTowne Industrial Center Industrial
Center boundaries; add Concrete Batch Plants as a permitted
use for development in Area "B"; and permit two points of
access on any lot or parcel. He then commented on the
economic impact analysis on the Florida Rock & Concrete
Batch Plant that he provided.
Mayor Thomas asked if they had just put into affect the 35-
foot height cap. City Manager Williams informed him they
did but this has vested rights.
Mike Dale, representative for Kimly, Horn, Civil Engineer,
851 Dunlawton, stated he was present to answer questions.
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The last time they talked they were interested in Tarmac's
facility. He estimated their silo to be every bit of 65 or
70 feet from his estimate in looking at it. That is maybe
1,000 feet from the site they are talking about.
Mayor Thomas asked for Council comment.
Councilwoman Rhodes stated her personal opinion is that it
is a darn shame that for twenty feet they were willing to
turn down jobs in the City. She appreciated they were
going to stay even though it is going to cost them more
money.
Councilwoman Rogers stated she wasn't willing to turn it
down. She was the one who made the motion to go forward
with this and just put aside the issue with the aO-foot
silo until after they decided to do what they were planning
to do with the Land Development Code. She is all for the
jobs. She would really like to see the 12-15 people really
get $35,000 per year. She knew they didn't give pensions,
not like the City. Mr. Dale stated the way he sees it the
land code didn't have to do with vested rights projects.
Councilwoman Rogers stated it doesn't and they weren't made
aware about the vested rights until after that.
Councilwoman Rhodes stated.really the Land Development Code
has nothing to do with it.
Mayor Thomas opened the public hearing.
The following citizen spoke:
Linda Small, 1629 Willow Oak Drive, asked if they could use
accurate numbers. She stated City Manager Williams was
driving her crazy with this average house of $90,000 and
you have to have 49 houses to generate $65,000. He is
making them nuts because it is not true. City Manager
Williams asked her to tell him what wasn't accurate. Ms.
Small stated there are no $90,000 homes.
Councilwoman Rhodes moved to approve Amendment No. 1 to the
Development Agreement for ParkTowne Industrial Center,
second by Councilwoman Rogers.
The MOTION CARRIED 5 - 0 .
C. Public Hearing, Richard Stonecipher, owner of
Earthquake Magoon's, 132 W. Park Avenue,
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requesting a Special
Annual Biketoberfest
October 21, 2006
Activity Permit for an
Oyster Roast to be held
Development Services Director Lear made a staff
presentation.
Councilwoman Rhodes mentioned the letter, which they have
never received before, from the tenants around him. She
thinks in the letter some valid points are made with regard
to picking up trash and vomit and things of that nature.
Mayor Thomas asked if they wanted to postpone this until
they could do more research. Councilwoman Rhodes suggested
they have a break so Mayor Thomas could read the letter.
City Clerk Wadsworth informed him the applicant was
present. Mr. Lear suggested they make this a condition of
the special activity permit that they need to clean up.
Manuel Cacdac, 2312 Hill Street, New Smyrna Beach, local
business owner, Aztec Scooter Company, stated what they are
trying to do is keep the quality of business in the plaza
to a certain level. They have had an ongoing issue with
Mr. Stonecipher as far as keeping the parking lot clean and
just basically taking care of his customers and business
practices, which affect their businesses as well. There
has been damage to the building. There has been garbage
left out, including oyster shells. There has been a rancid
beer smell for months. Part of his conditions with the
homeowner's association is to remove all his outdoor bar,
his grill, his smoker but none of those items ever get
moved. He included pictures of some of the items that are
left there year round that are supposed to be removed
immediately after the events. Nobody in the plaza seems to
want to address these issues directly with Mr. Stonecipher
so he felt he should. It is affecting his business and his
customers, who are a little intimidated by people standing
outside drinking. His liquor license doesn't cover people
drinking outside unless there is a special permit. He
doesn't want to eliminate his tradition. He just wants to
make sure they keep things in check so that the rest of
them in the building don't have any problems making money
and dealing with quality of service for their customers.
Councilwoman Rhodes asked if there were police at
Earthquake Magoon's like they have at the No Name Saloon.
Mr. Cacdac stated they have made requests and they are
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friends with a couple of the officers in Edgewater and they
have made efforts to drive through and citizens patrol has
been doing a great job at riding through a couple times in
the evening.
Councilwoman Rhodes stated at the No Name Saloon the City
requires police officers to be there and maybe in this case
they need to require the owner of the business has to pay
for the police service. Mr. Cacdac stated that would be
greatly appreciated.
Councilwoman Rhodes stated she felt all of Mr. Cacdac's
concerns were valid and that they should require a police
officer be there just like they do at No Name.
Councilman Vincenzi didn't see any problem with that. He
knows the No Name Saloon has to go through a big,
permitting and review process. Mr. Lear stated they have a
meeting before every event with the owners of No Name.
Councilman Vincenzi asked if they could put off approving
this until Mr. Lear has a chance to speak to the owner.
Mr. Lear stated with this in the permit it states that any
cost of police or clean up will be made by the owner or the
applicant. Councilman Vincenzi mentioned it never being
enforced before. City Manager Williams informed him there
had never been any issue. He suggested Council approve the
permit with the requirement that the Police Department be
present and within three days they do an inspection of the
property to verify the event has been cleaned up if that
seems to be acceptable. Councilwoman Rhodes stated at the
cost of the owner. City Manager Williams stated then they
can report that information back to Council.
Councilman Vincenzi and Councilwoman Rhodes stated that was
fine by them.
Mayor Thomas closed the public hearing and entertained a
motion.
Councilwoman Rhodes made a motion that they grant the
special permit to Earthquake Magoon's for a special
activity permit for the Oyster Roast on October 21, 2006
along with providing for a police officer to be there
during that time and an inspection by the City three days
afterwards to be sure all of these concerns are addressed,
second by Councilwoman Lichter.
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Mayor Thomas asked if one police officer was enough or if
they needed two.
Interim Police Chief John Taves stated the officers they
put down at No Name is for pedestrian traffic safety,
getting across U. S. #1. There will be no crossing of Park
Avenue. He had no problem with there being an officer
there. It is a twelve-hour shift. They are in radio
communication with each other and if they need another
officer they can call. He believed all special permit
documents state that even with No Name, if you have two
officers, it also includes if additional officers are
needed. He felt that phrase would carry them if they
needed to put another officer down there.
Councilwoman Rhodes stated they didn't need twelve-hour
shifts. They just needed someone there during the event.
Interim Police Chief Taves stated he believed the permit
was asking for twelve noon until midnight. If there is
going to be an officer there, he would like to see two.
Assistant City Attorney Palmer asked Councilwoman Rhodes if
she wanted to clarify her motion. Councilwoman Rhodes
stated she didn't want to limit them to two if they needed
five.
The MOTION CARRIED 5 - 0 .
There was a ten-minute recess at this time. The meeting
recessed at 11:10 p.m. and reconvened at 11:20 p.m.
D. 1st Reading, Ord. No. 2006-0-31, Bishop Thomas
Wenski requesting annexation of 9.97~ acres of
property located at 2310 S. Ridgewood Avenue
Assistant City Attorney Palmer read Ord. 2006-0-31 into the
record.
Mayor Thomas opened the public hearing.
Councilwoman Rhodes mentioned not receiving any development
plans on this. She asked if there was anything unofficial.
City Manager Williams informed her not at this time. Mr.
Lear explained this is only for annexation at this point.
They will come back for a land use amendment and rezoning
at a later date.
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Mayor Thomas closed the public hearing and entertained a
motion.
Councilwoman Rhodes moved to approve Ord. 2006-0-31, Bishop
Thomas Wenski requesting annexation of 9.97+ acres of
property located at 2310 S. Ridgewood Avenue, second by
Councilwoman Lichter.
The MOTION CARRIED 5 - 0 .
E. 2nd Reading, Ord. No. 2006-0-10, City of Edgewater
requesting amendments to the data and analysis,
and the Goals, Objectives and Policies within the
Future Land Use, Conservation and Coastal
Elements of the Comprehensive Plan, cont. from
8/21/06, Item 6C
Assistant City Attorney Palmer read Ord. 2006-0-10 into the
record.
Development Services Director Lear made a staff
presentation. He pointed out that this item and the next
three are part of the large-scale submittal cycle.
Due to there being no comments, Mayor Thomas opened and
closed the public hearing.
Mayor Thomas entertained a motion.
Councilwoman Lichter moved to approve Ord. 2006-0-10, City
of Edgewater requesting amendments to the data and
analysis, and the Goals, Objectives and Policies within the
Future Land Use, Conservation and Coastal Elements of the
Comprehensive Plan, second by Councilman vincenzi.
The MOTION CARRIED 5 - 0 .
F. 2nd Reading, Ord. No. 2006-0-11, City of Edgewater
requesting an amendment to the Comprehensive Plan
Future Land Use Map to include 17.63~ acres of
property located southwest of the Edgewater Lakes
Subdivision phase 1a (Northstar Lane) as
Public/Semi-Public with Conservation Overlay,
cont. from 8/21/06, Item 6D
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Assistant City Attorney Palmer read Ord. 2006-0-11 into the
record.
Development Services Director Lear made a staff
presentation.
Due to there being no comments, Mayor Thomas opened and
closed the public hearing.
Mayor Thomas entertained a motion.
Councilwoman Rhodes moved to approve Ord. 2006-0-11, City
of Edgewater requesting an amendment to the Comprehensive
Plan Future Land Use Map to include 17.63+ acres of
property located southwest of the Edgewater Lakes
Subdivision Phase 1a (Northstar Lane) as Public/Semi-Public
with Conservation Overlay, second by Councilwoman Lichter.
The MOTION CARRIED 5-0.
G. 2nd Reading, Ord. No. 2006-0-13, Targator
Partners, LLC requesting an amendment to the
Comprehensive Plan Future Land Use Map to include
2.67~ acres of land located along Falcon Avenue,
west of Riverside Bank as High Density
Residential, cont. from 8/21/06, Item 6E
Assistant City Attorney Palmer read Ord. 2006-0-13 into the
record.
Development Services Director Lear made a staff
presentation.
Mayor Thomas asked if Mr. Lear if he had any idea what they
were going to do there. Mr. Lear informed him town homes.
Mayor Thomas opened the public hearing.
Tim Howard, Managing Member for Targator Partners LLC, 3028
willow Oak Drive, asked if they had it absolutely right
this time. Mr. Lear informed him yes. Mr. Howard asked if
he was vested. Mr. Lear informed him as staff has
determined it's been vested because he had a rezoning
approved. Mr. Howard stated he also had a development
agreement, which he requested an extension of. Mr. Lear
stated he hadn't heard on that. Mr. Howard stated he
understands he is waiting for Mr. Palmer. He asked for an
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estimated time when that will occur since this is almost
two years now.
Assistant City Attorney Palmer stated he did understand
that there was an existing RPUD agreement for the property.
He hasn't seen it. As this is a quasi-legislative action
of the City Council in adopting this Comprehensive Plan
Amendment, if the City so chose they could condition this
approval on an amendment that the development agreement to
comply with the new height restrictions imposed during the
current round of Land Development Code revisions.
Councilwoman Rhodes stated so the answer is no he is not.
Assistant City Attorney Palmer stated the answer is he's
vested in terms of zoning, however he doesn't have a
Comprehensive Plan designation consistent with that zoning.
He needs a Comprehensive Plan Designation prior to
development and since this is a quasi-legislative action of
the City the City could impose a condition that the
development agreement be amended. If this is approved
without condition, he believed, having not looked at his
development agreement, it would still be in effect and he
would be vested.
Mr. Howard stated let's get the record straight here. He
made application in January 2005. It was submitted to DCA
that March under a small scale. It was kicked back. He
went to Tallahassee to find out why. He came back and met
with Mr. Lear telling him what it was. He asked no
questions and took no notes. That following August it was
submitted again the same way. It was kicked back again.
You are only allowed twice a year so he was forced to wait
until 2006 with this recent submission. Now they are
telling him he is restricted to 35 feet.
Assistant City Attorney Palmer stated that wasn't what he
was saying.
Mayor Thomas asked Mr. Howard how tall he was going. Mr.
Howard informed it wasn't 35 feet he didn't think. He
informed him he forgot what the height was. It is only
two-story townhouses. Mayor Thomas stated you don't know.
Mr. Howard informed him it has been.a long time since the
plans have been in Dennis' office and approved and he
forgot the height because he has moved on to some other
things.
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Councilman Vincenzi stated this is on request they should
grant the way it is because of this going back and forth.
Councilwoman Rogers agreed. This isn't his fault.
Councilwoman Rogers stated they needed to make some type of
mention whether his rights are vested or not because he
began this process. Assistant City Attorney Palmer
informed her they didn't need to.
Mayor Thomas closed the public hearing and entertained a
motion.
Councilwoman Rhodes moved to approve Ord. 2006-0-13,
Targator Partners, LLC requesting an amendment to the
Comprehensive Plan Future Land Use Map to include 2.67+
acres of land located along Falcon Avenue, west of
Riverside Bank as High Density Residential, second by
Councilman Vincenzi.
The MOTION CARRIED 5 - 0 .
H. 2nd Reading, Ord. No. 2006-0-14, the City of
Edgewater requesting amendments to the data and
analysis; and the Goals, Objectives and Policies
within the Future Land Use and Housing Elements
of the Comprehensive Plan, cont. from 8/21/06,
Item 6F
Assistant City Attorney Palmer read Ord. 2006-0-14 into the
record.
Development Services Director Lear made a staff
presentation.
Due to there being no comments, Mayor Thomas opened and
closed the public hearing.
Mayor Thomas entertained a motion.
Councilwoman Lichter moved to approve Ord. 2006-0-14, the
City of Edgewater requesting amendments to the data and
analysis; and the Goals, Objectives and Policies within the
Future Land Use and Housing Elements of the Comprehensive
Plan, second by Councilwoman Rhodes.
The MOTION CARRIED 5 - 0 .
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Ordinances 2006-0-20, 2006-0-21, 2006-0-22, 2006-0-23,
2006-0-24 and 2006-0-25 have not received certification
from the Vo1usia Growth Management Commissions and are
scheduled for second hearing on October 2, 2006
I. 2nd Reading, Ord. No. 2006-0-20, Janice Shore
requesting an amendment to the Comprehensive Plan
Future Land Use Map to include 1.0~ acres of
property located at 1008 Flying M Court as Low
Density Transitional with Conservation Overlay,
cont. from 7/24/06, Item 6B
J. 2nd Reading, Ord. No. 2006-0-22, Stephen and Jill
Hole requesting an amendment to the Comprehensive
plan Future Land Use Map to include 0.17~ acres
of property located east of 114 Oak Ridge Avenue
from Low Density Residential to Commercial, cont.
from 7/24/06, Item 6C
K. 2nd Reading, Ord. No. 2006-0-24, Dana and Marcia
Cornelius requesting an amendment to the
Comprehensive Plan Future Land Use Map to change
0.38~ acres of property located south of 114 Oak
Ridge Avenue from High Density Residential and
Commercial to Low Density Residential, cont. from
7/24/06, Item 6D
L. 2nd Reading, Ord. No. 2006-0-21, Janice Shore
requesting an amendment to the Official Zoning
Map to include 1.0~ acres of property located at
1008 Flying M Court as RT (Rural Transitional),
cont. from 7/24/06, Item 6E
M. 2nd Reading, Ord. No. 2006-0-23, Stephen and Jill
Hole requesting an amendment to the Official
Zoning Map to change 0.17~ acres of property
located east of 114 Oak Ridge Avenue from R-3
(Single Family Residential) to B-3 (Commercial),
cont. from 7/24/06, Item 6C
N. 2nd Reading, Ord. No. 2006-0-25, Dana and Marcia
Cornelius requesting an amendment to the Official
Zoning Map to change 0.38~ acres of property
located south of 114 Oak Ridge Avenue from R-5
(Multi-Family Residential) and B-3 (Highway
Commercial) to R-3 (Single Family Residential) ,
cont. from 7/24/06, Item 6G
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Assistant City Attorney Palmer stated so the City does not
have to readvertise these public hearings, he read the
titles for Item I - Ord. 2006-0-20, Item J - Ord. 2006-0-
22, Item K - Ord. 2006-0-24, Item L - Ord. 2006-0-21, Item
M - Ord. 2006-0-23, and Item N - Ord. 2006-0-25 into the
record. He recommended the Mayor entertain a motion to
continue Items I - N as just read into the record to the
Regular City council Meeting to be held on October 2, 2006.
Mayor Thomas entertained a motion.
Councilwoman Rhodes so moved, second by Councilman
Vincenzi.
The MOTION CARRIED 5 - 0 .
O. 2nd Reading, Ord. No. 2006-0-30, proposing an
Amendment to the Charter of the City of Edgewater
providing for exceptions to the prohibition
against new building heights in excess of 35 feet
(to the electors of the City of Edgewater at the
November 7, 2006 General Election)
Assistant City Attorney Palmer read Ord. 2006-0-30 into the
record.
City Manager Williams made a staff presentation. He went
over the proposed alternative language.
Mayor Thomas confirmed that this was the City's language
and didn't have anything to do with ECARD. City Manager
Williams explained this clarifies ECARD's proposed Charter
Amendment. In ECARD's Charter amendment it doesn't
reference exemptions related to commercial, industrial and
public and semi-public. Through numerous discussions with
various citizens, business leaders and the Economic
Development Board, there has been a major request to corne
out and simplify the language.
Councilwoman Lichter felt the language for the second
alternative was better. City Manager Williams informed her
they are offering two suggestions. Councilwoman Rhodes
also felt the second alternative was more clear.
Assistant City Attorney Palmer stated he believed it was
staff's recommendation under the bottom paragraph under
Text of Proposed Amendment staff is also recommending the
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deletion of the provision appearing after (iii) any
building located within a DRI. The bottom paragraph would
read the building height restrictions contained in Section
1.01(a) (1) of Article I of the City Charter shall not apply
to any commercial, public, semi-public, or industrial
buildings. The foregoing shall not preclude the City
Council from adopting land development regulation which
otherwise restrict or limit the building height of any such
buildings and they would revise the ballot question.
Councilwoman Rhodes asked why the last sentence had to be
in there. She feels that complicates it. City Manager
Williams informed her that allows them to place
restrictions in the Land Development Code. Councilwoman
Rhodes stated but they have that anyway. She feels it
just adds more words that don't really do anything. City
Manager Williams stated it basically tells them they will
govern the height restrictions in the Land Development Code
and not in your constitution. It should be handled within
the Land Development Code. That is what the last sentence
provides for.
Assistant City Attorney Palmer stated he agreed with what
Councilwoman Rhodes said. He thought they put it in there
to clarify and make it absolutely clear of the City's
ability. Councilwoman Rhodes felt they muddied the waters
in her opinion.
Councilman Vincenzi and Councilwoman Rhodes felt that
should be scratched.
Councilman Vincenzi asked what other building not intended
for residential use is. City Manager Williams informed him
they wanted to strike that language too.
Councilman Vincenzi confirmed the language would be the
building height restrictions contained in Section
1.01(a) (1) of Article I of the City Charter shall not apply
to any commercial, public, semi-public, or industrial
building. City Manager Williams asked if they should say
building or use. He felt they should say use.
Councilwoman Rhodes stated or industrial use as defined in
Section 380.06, Florida Statutes. She suggested they leave
off the last sentence because they have that ability
anyway.
Councilman vincenzi stated that sounded good to him.
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Councilwoman Rogers asked if they were taking (ii) any
mixed-use building of which at least 70% of its square
footage is dedicated to non-residential uses out.
Councilwoman Rhodes informed her yes. Councilwoman Rogers
stated confirmed they were taking (ii) and (iii) out
completely. She felt if they were going to do this they
should put a height limit on this. Councilwoman Rhodes
stated they have done that in the Land Development Code
though. Councilwoman Vincenzi stated well not really.
Councilwoman Rogers stated no we haven't. In the Land
Development Code they just did 35 feet. City Manager
Williams stated right, so you have placed the height limit
on it at this point.
Councilwoman Rogers asked if she could ask Dot Carlson a
question since she did the petitions. In speaking with her
about the height and this amendment, was it not her
intention, and when she spoke to the citizens, that this
was to limit, not residential specifically, but residential
multi-family to 35 feet. She was against the condos and
she wasn't conveying to the public that this was going to
be across the board for building, commercial and
industrial. Ms. Carlson stated the ballot language on
theirs is exactly as it is in Jacksonville Beach. They
were telling the public if a variance was needed for public
use and semi-public, hospitals, high schools, schools,
those could be added from the City. Councilwoman Rhodes
stated not when your Charter Amendment says all buildings.
Ms. Carlson stated that is what it says in theirs.
Councilwoman Rhodes stated that is what it says in theirs
so they as Council can't go against that. They can't give
a variance to somebody for that. Ms. Carlson stated that
has to be applied for. Councilwoman Rogers stated if it is
in the Charter that is it. If it wasn't in the Charter but
in the land use. What she was getting at with this one
item that they are going to possibly approve in this
amendment, they have taken out all of the confusion
language. The only thing that is there is the commercial,
public, semi-public and industrial. She feels they need to
specify a height limit there so the sky is not the limit.
Ms. Carlson agreed with Councilwoman Rogers.
Councilwoman Rogers stated Ms. Carlson's intent and what
the public was perceiving with this 35-foot height was more
or less fighting the issue with the condos and houses to be
taller than 35 feet. Initially when they were talking
about the land amendments, she had presented the commercial
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to not be more than 50 feet. Then she backed up to the 35
feet and now that they are getting specific with this and
if this does get approved in the Charter, they would be
cutting Edgewater's throat if they just say 35 feet across
the board but if they go back to commercial, public, semi-
public and industrial and say that can't exceed 50 feet,
she felt that would appease Ms. Carlson. Ms. Carlson
stated if they want to do higher than 50 feet.
Councilwoman Rogers stated they couldn't do higher than 50
feet because of this being in the Charter. That is why she
is saying what if they need a little more than 35 feet they
won't be able to because it is in the Charter. If they say
50 feet, then they are okay, they are covered and they are
saying no more than 50 feet, which means they couldn't go
over. Ms. Carlson didn't think ECARD would have a problem
with that. This clears it up for these two items on the
ballot would have been totally confusing. As far as condos
and stuff, they don't' think that is going to make a lot of
money. They don't believe in warehousing people. But
hospitals, schools fine.
City Manager Williams stated they have contacted Port
Orange and talked with them and he thought the average was
running about 40 to 48 in terms of Home Depot, Lowes and
Target. Ms. Carlson stated she did know WalMart was
considering reducing their height because they are air
conditioning and cooling a lot of space that they don't
use. ECARD is fine with that and she didn't think it would
be that confusing. They can vote yes for both and she
thinks everybody will win-win. Councilwoman Rogers felt
just saying commercial, public, semi-public and industrial
not exceeding 50 feet. Ms. Carlson stated most people were
having a problem with the DRI. Councilwoman Rogers stated
that is gone and the 70/30, that is gone. Mr. Carlson
stated that is fine. Councilwoman Rogers stated before
there were four items. Here there is three of which they
have changed the one but it doesn't matter because they
aren't even talking about all three. They are only talking
about the one and the only thing they are doing is striking
or other buildings. Ms. Carlson stated or other was very
confusing.
City Manager Williams asked Council's consideration on
whether or not the 50 is really what they want to land on.
Not turning their words against them, but they just
described if they had a need at 35 feet and they had a cap
in the Charter they couldn't go above it. If they had that
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same need and it was above 50 feet they are bound by that
height restriction. Councilwoman Rhodes stated the Land
Development Code addresses height caps. This isn't even
about the Council. All they are doing is saying to the
voters if for them to make the decision. So many times
they are accused of not listening to the voters. Now they
want to give it to the voters so they can let the Council
know what they want. She didn't feel they were mutually
exclusive at all.
Councilwoman Lichter asked how high the tower is at Boston
Whaler to take the smell away and get it up high. She
asked if that was 50 foot. She could think of some things
that might be higher. City Manager Williams wasn't sure.
The Council just approved for some industrial development
to come in. He felt ECARD's ballot does provide for
exceptions to water towers and fire towers and different
uninhabitable objects. He suggested they consider what
restrictions they place on themselves. Ms. Carlson stated
she believed there were exceptions to spires, churches,
silos, towers, and radio cell phone towers. There are
exceptions and they are in the ballot language.
Councilwoman Lichter stated the fifty-foot was okay with
her if those things are some place else. She didn't think
any of this should be in the Charter. City Manager
Williams stated they could govern the height restriction
within the Land Development Code. Councilwoman Rhodes
stated they could do all of this in the Land Development
Code. City Manager Williams stated yes they could.
Councilwoman Lichter stated that is where it should be.
Mayor Thomas opened the public hearing.
The following citizens spoke:
Bob Lott, 2112 S. Riverside Drive, Chairman, Economic
Development Board, spoke of serving on the Charter Review
Committee. They went over the Charter item by item and
they were very careful to make sure that anything they
recommended as a change would still fit 25 years from now.
When you make a change to your Charter, rarely does it ever
come back. He cautioned the Council. This is not the
place for Land Development Code in the Charter. They need
to have the flexibility of Council to make those kind of
decisions. However if it is the will of the people it is
the will of the people. He is pleased that they are
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putting that exception in for commercial growth. He feels
that is very important. He suggested very strong that they
don't put yet another number on that. He asked about the
cement plant that wanted SO-foot silos. City Manager
Williams informed him that is what their request was but
they landed on 60 foot.
Mr. Lott stated if they put the fifty-foot on there they
don't know what it is going to be 20 years from now. Do
what you can to make it fit 25 years from now. They need
vision. They have to look at what it is going to be like
for their children and their children's children. Let's
don't handcuff them.
Carol Ann Stoughton, 2740 Evergreen Drive, stated a school
or a hospital does not have to conform to the City's codes.
They can come in and go where they want. They aren't going
to go in the middle of a development. ECARD's intent was
to stop what they all didn't want and that was what the
petition was for. They also thought there was a deadline
with Ann McFall's office but somehow the City are pushing
for the developers. The wishes of the people are they did
not want high-rises and they didn't want condos over a
certain height. She didn't know how City Manager Williams
got it through. He must have some power out in the
administration building or with Ann McFall and with the
developers. She was sorry to say that but felt it was
true.
Dot Carlson, 1714 Edgewater Drive, asked if the language
has been sent to Ann McFall. City Manager Williams
informed her the new language, no they have not. Pending
Council's action tonight, they will send it. Ms. Carlson
stated hers had to be in by September 1st but it is at the
discretion of the Supervisor of Elections. City Manager
Williams stated if asking a question makes him guilty then
he is guilty.
Mayor Thomas closed the public hearing.
Councilman Vincenzi asked what the wording was again
exactly. Assistant City Attorney Palmer again read the
language to be "The building height restrictions contained
in Section 1.01 (a) (1) of Article I of the City Charter
shall not apply to any commercial, public, semi-public, or
industrial buildings. Councilwoman Rhodes corrected him
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and said industrial uses as defined in Section 380.06,
Florida Statutes.
Councilwoman Rogers stated and the addition of the fifty-
foot height limit or what are they doing with that.
Councilwoman Rhodes stated that has to be included in the
motion.
Assistant City Attorney Palmer stated to clarify
Councilwoman Rhodes question about Statute 380.06. That is
the Statute relating to the DRI's. He asked if there was
anything specific she wanted. Councilwoman Rhodes stated
she was impressed that he knew what that was because she
didn't.
Councilman Vincenzi asked if there was a height limitation
in there or not right now. Assistant City Attorney Palmer
informed him there is if they include it in the motion.
Mayor Thomas entertained a motion.
Councilwoman Rhodes moved that they put this amendment on
the ballot as was just read by Assistant City Attorney
Palmer, second by Councilwoman Lichter.
The MOTION CARRIED 4-1. Councilwoman Roqers voted NO
because it did not include the 50 foot heiqht limit.
P. 2nd Reading, Ord. No. 2006-0-32, proposing an
Amendment to the Charter of the City of Edgewater
amending Section 3.11(b) (Rules and Journal) to
provide that City Council meetings shall include
one 5-minute period for "Citizen Comments" to be
determined by City Council in lieu of two periods
at the beginning of the meeting and directly
prior to adjournment (to the electors of the City
of Edgewater at the November 7, 2006 General
Election)
Assistant City Attorney Palmer read Ord. 2006-0-32 into the
record.
City Manager Williams made a staff presentation.
Mayor Thomas opened the public hearing.
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The following citizen spoke:
Carol Ann Stoughton, 2740 Evergreen Drive, stated she
didn't know what they are trying to accomplish by stopping
the public. The public has a right to speak. Before they
vote and after they vote they have a right to get up there.
This is America, this is a democracy. They have a right
and they intend not to be stifled or stopped or sought
after by investigators or policemen or anything else, they
have that right. She doesn't like all of a sudden that
they are going to be silenced. She told Mayor Thomas he
started this with the three minutes, when it was five
minutes. He agreed to listen to the people and do for the
people. She is sorry. We have a Charter that says they
are entitled to whatever. If people want to speak, she
feels they should be heard.
Councilwoman Rhodes stated and they will speak because they
will vote. If they don't vote for it, then it will be the
way it is now. There is nothing fairer than that.
Mayor Thomas closed the public hearing.
Councilwoman Rhodes moved to approve Ord. 2006-0-32,
proposing an Amendment to the Charter of the City of
Edgewater amending Section 3.11(b) (Rules and Journal) to
provide that City Council meetings shall include one 5-
minute period for UCitizen Comments" to be determined by
City Council in lieu of two periods at the beginning of the
meeting and directly prior to adjournment (to the electors
of the City of Edgewater at the November 7, 2006 General
Election), second by Councilwoman Lichter.
The MOTION CARRIED 5-0.
Q. Res. No. 2006-R-09, modifying Section 19-130
(Reclaimed Water System Charges and Fees) ,
Article X (Reclaimed Water Reuse Program) of
Chapter 19 (Utilities and Services)
Assistant City Attorney Palmer read Res. 2006-R-09 into the
record.
City Manager Williams made a staff presentation.
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Due to there being no comments, Mayor Thomas opened and
closed the public hearing.
Councilwoman Lichter moved to approve Res. 2006-R-09,
modifying Section 19-130 (Reclaimed Water System Charges
and Fees), Article X (Reclaimed Water Reuse Program) of
Chapter 19 (Utilities and Services), second by Councilwoman
Rhodes.
The MOTION CARRIED 5 - 0 .
7. BOARD APPOINTMENTS
Mayor Thomas stated Mr. Leaf resigned so he wanted to
appoint Joe Daly to the Volusia County Prepares Steering
Committee.
Councilwoman Rhodes moved to approve the recommendation of
Mayor Thomas to appoint Joe Daly, second by Councilwoman
Lichter.
The MOTION CARRIED 5 - 0 .
8. CONSENT AGENDA
A. Purchase of New Filters - staff recommending
declaring the Allen Bradley PLC components for
the Alan R. Thomas Water Treatment Plant filter
controls as a sole source item and authorize
purchasing these components from Rexel
Consolidated at a cost of $20,275.38
Councilwoman Rogers asked if this was in the budget. City
Manager Williams informed her it was a budgeted item.
Councilwoman Rhodes moved to approve the Consent Agenda,
second by Councilwoman Lichter.
The MOTION CARRIED 5 - 0 .
9. OTHER BUSINESS
There was no Other Business to be discussed at this time.
10. OFFICER REPORTS
A. City Clerk Wadsworth had nothing at this time.
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B. Assistant City Attorney Palmer had nothing at
this time.
C. City Manager Williams
City Manager William stated they had a request to solicit
interest in attorney services. He has provided Council the
current contract that was previously approved by this
Council with Foley & Lardner. He has also provided legal
review fees for this fiscal year verses last fiscal year
and wanted to describe the process that they would be using
in seeking out professional services for legal counsel. He
has confirmed with Paul Rosenthal this afternoon that there
is not a need to issue an RFP and that they can use the
same procedures they did the last time they went out for
these professional services. They advertised the ad in a
newspaper of general circulation. They receive requests
for interest and then they will review those requests for
interest and bring those candidates before Council at a
budget workshop for a final selection if it is a Council's
intention. Some of the concerns that have been expressed
from staff's point of view are that with Foley & Lardner,
they are an all encompassing firm. If Council has no
comments and is okay with the direction, if they give him
the authorization he will issue the ad for professional
legal services and they will move forward and begin that
process.
Councilwoman Lichter asked if they would have the same
format we have now. Is it the general consensus of the
group to have the attorney at every meeting or special
meetings or would they talk about that at a different time.
She was thinking about the cost involved. City Manager
Williams informed her he envisioned it would be under the
same format that we are currently providing those services
for.
Councilman Vincenzi made a motion for City Manger Williams
to move forward in the direction he described about
advertising for an attorney, second by Councilwoman Rhodes.
The MOTION CARRIED 4 -1 .
Councilwoman Lichter voted NO.
City Manager Williams stated with respect to one additional
item that was brought up earlier tonight with the second
independent review or auditing that would take place. He
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asked for Council's consideration on appointing
Councilwoman Rogers to work directly with him, if she is so
willing, to prepare that RFP so they can get the RFP on the
street.
Councilwoman Rogers stated she wanted to speak to him
further about that. Something that was presented to her
that could be a less expensive way to accomplish what it is
she wants. She would speak with him privately about that
and then they would bring it back to Council.
11. CITIZEN COMMENTS/CORRESPONDENCE
Mayor Thomas saluted the public that stayed at the meeting
that late.
A. Tentative Agenda Items
There were no Tentative Agenda Items to be discussed.
12 . ADJOURNMENT
There being no further business to discuss, Councilwoman
Rhodes moved to adjourn. The meeting adjourned at 12:20
p.m.
Minutes submitted by:
Lisa Bloomer
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