09-25-2006 - Special Budget
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CITY COUNCIL OF EDGEHATER
SPECIAL MEETING
SEPTEMBER 25, 2006
7:00 P.M.
COMMUNITY CENTER
MINUTES
CALL TO ORDER
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Mayor Thomas called the Special Meeting to order at 7:00
p.m. in the Community Center.
ROLL CALL
Mayor Michael Thomas
Councilwoman Debra Rogers
Councilman Dennis Vincenzi
Councilwoman Harriet Rhodes
Councilwoman Judith Lichter
Assistant City Attorney Nicholas Palmer
City Manager Jon Williams
City Clerk Susan Wadsworth
INVOCATION, PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE
Present
Present
Present
Present
Present
Present
Present
Present
There was a silent invocation and pledge of allegiance to
the Flag.
MEETING PURPOSE
The purpose of the meeting was to hold public hearings (2nd
Readings) on Ord. No. 2006-0-28, adopting final millage
rate of 6.15 mills per $1,000 of assessed taxable value and
Ord. No. 2006-0-29, adopting final budget for fiscal year
2006/2007.
Assistant City Attorney Palmer stated this is an advertised
public hearing to finalize the budget and adopt a final
millage rate for the City of Edgewater. The City
Commission has previously approved a tentative millage rate
of 6.15 mills, which represents a 24.95% increase in
millage over the rolled-back rate of 4.9219 mills. Prior
to any discussion, the Mayor should call upon the City
Manager to make a brief presentation which discusses the
following: the percentage rate increase in tentative
millage over the rolled-back rate necessary to fund the
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budget and the specific purpose for which ad valorem tax
revenues are being increased.
City Manager Williams went over the attached Powerpoint
Presentation.
City Manager Williams informed Council that tonight is the
second final reading adopting the 2007 budget. During the
first budget hearing, Council approved a tentative millage
rate of 6.15. After review, staff left that hearing, went
back to the drawing board and looked at anticipated
revenues and expenditures and made an estimation through
the end of FY 2006 and they are bringing back a
recommendation to lower the millage rate from 6.15 to 5.95.
At that rate that represents ad valorem revenues of a
little over $6 million. They have rolled back the ad
valorem tax rate necessary for the animal shelter in
accordance with the increase in assessed taxable values to
pay for the voter approved debt service millage rate, which
is down from .06 mills to .0317, which is a roll back from
last year. They provided a reconciliation of funds, how
they got to the suggested 5.95. During the initial
representation they had budgeted surplus or excess revenues
over expenditures of $300,000. In order to lower the
millage rate from 6.15 to 5.95, they would have to reduce
that budgeted surplus by $208,000. They have also
described through out the budget process that per audited
financial statements and management letter comments, there
was an emphasis that was needed to lower the transfer from
the Water & Sewer Fund so they placed an extra emphasis on
trying to accomplish that as well. They are proposing to
lower that an additional $100,000 for a total of $200,000
over last year. Through negotiated contracts they are
proposing $11,000 in savings. Through the amendment they
approved at the last meeting, they will be selling property
to Volusia County out of ParkTowne so they projected that
revenue into the budget. It leaves them with a budgeted
surplus of $75,000 for fiscal year 2007. Based off of the
most recent audited financial statements, which was FY2005,
the reserves or fund balance is at 10.01 percent. The City
has a Charter requirement that stipulates that they need to
be at a minimum of 15%. They are estimating that at the
end of FY2006, they believe it will be at 18 percent, which
equates to $2.2 million in fund balance reserves. They are
recommending Council go to 5.95. In anticipating
additional questions regarding possible reductions, he went
ahead and put together additional proposals for lowering
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the millage rate in ~ mill increments. He went over the
alternative to lower it from 5.95 to 5.45. He placed a
very strong emphasis on the fact that if Council's pleasure
is to take it to 5.45, it's not without sacrifice. When
they started this process they described a need to start
saving some money and start transferring it to the Capital
Projects fund so they can start paying for our merging
capital needs via savings rather than debt issuance. They
would no longer be suggesting doing that. They have
proposed to add two additional police officers. They
wouldn't do this. They removed associated equipment with
that. Right now we have an unfilled Recreation Coordinator
position in Parks & Rec. They would not fill that
position. They would not do any road resurfacing at all
and they have some temporary labor that would be removed
from the Finance Department as well. They continued with
the reconciliation at 5.45. If they go from 5.95 to 5.45
that is an additional cut in ad valorem taxes of $522,000.
They would be projecting budgeted surplus of $35,000.
Councilwoman Rhodes asked about the temporary labor out of
Finance. If they can do that at 5.45, then how do they
compensate for that? City Manager Williams explained they
would have to try and spread the work around. He further
commented on the temporary labor. Councilwoman Rhodes
questioned if they would really save anything due to having
to pay overtime. City Manager Williams stated it is very
tough to project that. They would place a strong emphasis
on trying to absorb the work without additional overtime.
Councilwoman Lichter asked if the 5.95 represent two times
they have gone down what did it end up as. City Manager
Williams stated they initially started this process at
6.45. Councilwoman Rhodes stated but they knew they were
going down. They could always go down but couldn't go up
and that is why they set it so high.
City Manager Williams stated once you go through the
process and start finalizing all your projected revenues
and proposed expenditures, you can always go down but you
can't go up.
Mayor Thomas asked what their goal is for next year. City
Manager Williams stated they would set a goal to roll off
5.95 by an additional ~ mill. He suggested they set that
as an on-going, strategic goal that they continue to lower
the millage rate.
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Councilwoman Lichter stated she is worried about
resurfacing. If that resurfacing of the roads is in the
Shores in the area that got done last, that was a bargain
price deal and that never held up well. Over the years
since they have done that, there has been trouble on those
roads and it lasting like it should have. City Manager
Williams explained they would be pushing those needs
further out. Councilwoman Rhodes stated that would catch
up with us. City Manager Williams confirmed it would catch
up and would cost the City more money down the road. He
has continued with the scenario of going from 5.45 top 4.95
adding additional options. Basically you still lose
everything they previously discussed. The difference now
is they don't add the capital vehicle lease so they don't
purchase any new vehicles for next year. They would remove
all capital, including the FEMA Grant we were going to get
for the shuffleboard courts and the shuffleboard courts.
They wouldn't purchase any computers or any of the
requested capital for the rest of the departments. They do
not do the road resurfacing. They have targeted temporary
labor. Council's option at this point in order to achieve
a 4.95, he would suggest they consider not doing the Base
Leg Drive, however, they know there is a contractual
obligation. He is fairly confident in saying the City
would probably be sued. They have looked at what are those
options if they leave Base Leg Drive in the mix. The only
other area to look at would be to start cutting positions
from the budget and they would need $145,000 in doing so.
They have not identified which positions they would target.
If it is Council's pleasure to lower the millage to 4.95,
these are the areas they would target.
Councilwoman Rogers stated first City Manager Williams said
for the 4.95, he gave them the breakdown of what was to be
removed and one of the items is Base Leg and now he is
telling them full-time positions. Is that in addition to
or in lieu of Base Leg? City Manager Williams stated in
lieu of, either Base Leg or the full-time positions,
whatever Council's pleasure is. Councilwoman Rogers
pointed out in the 5.45 budget, he had a fund balance of
$2.7 million but yet when you do the 4.95 you have a fund
balance increase of $155,000. She felt that wasn't
comparing apples to apples when they look at this. If they
are going to cut things but yet they are going to increase
the fund balance. City Manager Williams informed her if
they were to take and remove Base Leg Drive it is a
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$260,000 expenditure as opposed to $145,000 for the full-
time positions. He thought she was seeing the difference
in the expenditures. That difference would add back to the
fund balance or reserves.
Councilwoman Rogers stated the big question that seems to
be on everybody's mind is if they hadn't received the
property value increase in this area for this fiscal year
ended to allow for them this possible windfall of these
additional funds or revenues that could be expended for the
City, what would City Manager Williams have done for these
items that need to be done according to staff. City
Manager Williams stated they wouldn't be sitting there
talking about capital projects at all. At the end of the
presentation, he will show Council a slide that compares
operating budgets from FY06 to FY07. The slide will not
include any personnel costs and associated expenses that
are a direct result of negotiated contracts. It will not
talk about debt service or anything of that nature. It
looks at operating costs. The only area they would be left
to deal with would be proposed capital expenditures and
that is what he is suggesting at this point.
Councilwoman Rogers questioned if they had hired a few
additional police officers last fiscal year. City Manager
Williams believed they filled vacant positions but didn't
add any positions. Councilwoman Rogers asked how many
police officers we currently have for the City. Interim
Police Chief John Taves informed her 36 plus four reserves.
Councilwoman Rogers stated when they talk of the need for
additional police officers, that comes in to line whenever
they have an increase in population. We have a lot of
developments on the books that have been approved but have
not been started such as Edgewater Harbor, Edgewater Lakes,
Oak Leaf Preserve, Julington and Worthington.
Councilwoman
he thought.
Taves to let
us and if it
Rogers asked Interim Police Chief Taves what
Mayor Thomas also asked Interim Police Chief
them know how many New Smyrna has compared to
was roughly the same population.
Interim Police Chief Taves stated the population in New
Smyrna and Edgewater is pretty close. He believed New
Smyrna had 45 on the road. The reason he is looking for
two more officers is because he wants to become a pro-
active Police Department. Right now he believes they are
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reactive. As the City grows they are going to have to add
more officers but they also have to train those officers to
get them properly trained and on the road which is at least
a four month ordeal getting them through the proper
training.
City Manager Williams asked Interim Police Chief Taves to
describe the emphasis on establishing community policing
with the addition of the two officers. Interim Police
Chief Taves spoke of having them work a swing shift. He
spoke of having the extra officers when school gets out,
during rush hour traffic and at night when the bars close.
This would also help reduce overtime. They have a lot of
long-term employees that have accumulated quite a bit of
vacation time, which they can't deny them. He spoke of
ending up short and having to bring someone in on overtime.
Councilwoman Rogers spoke of looking at approximately
$162,000 for two new police officers. She asked if that
included everything. City Manager Williams informed her it
did.
Councilwoman Rogers felt that New Smyrna had more officers
than Edgewater because they have the beaches and the
tourists that go to the beaches. She suggested with the
situation the City is in and with the numbers of calls she
receives from citizens regarding the taxes that they should
hire one officer now and revisit this in six months.
Interim Police Chief Taves stated by only hiring one
officer that would cut everything in half from what he just
said. This is a coverage he wants to put out there seven
days a week, which one officer wouldn't be able to work.
Councilwoman Rogers asked him if he was going to hire from
outside or promote from within. Interim Police Chief Taves
stated it would be two new additional personnel to the
Police Department.
Councilwoman Rogers asked the population increase from last
fiscal year to this fiscal year. City Manager Williams
informed her two to three percent. We are at 21,572. He
didn't recall what it was last year. They have described a
need for allocating personnel with a ratio type of
approach. He didn't recall what the suggested standard was
for this area that the FBI statistics put out. Interim
Police Chief Taves stated in the State of Florida the FDLE
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sites gives the average for the entire State being about
2.45 officers per capita. Edgewater Police Department is
at 1.5. Two additional officers would bring them up to
1.6, still well below the average.
Councilwoman Lichter questioned if it affects the insurance
on your home if the City doesn't come to the average, such
as with the Fire Department. City Manager Williams thought
that was only for the Fire Department. Councilwoman Rhodes
stated because the police are on the road all the time.
City Manager Williams stated they couldn't tell them for
sure that that was the correct ratio. He felt they would
have to look at the individual City and look at crime
statistics. They are trying to land on a ratio that adds
personnel based off of increases in population.
City Manager Williams then commented the source of funds if
the Council was to lower the millage to 4.95 mills. He
then went over what the budget would be at the rolled-back
rate of 4.9219 mills with Base Leg Drive removed or the
full-time positions removed. He then went over the Capital
Expenditures they would have to give up when they start
dropping below the projected millage rate of 5.45.
City Manager Williams then commented on the General Fund
Operating Expenditures at 5.95 mills, not including
personnel costs, capital or debt service expenditures. He
commented on the difference between FY2006 and FY2007 and
having a decrease of 3.53%, which is less than CPl. He
also mentioned the total of all funds being $31,375,219.
Assistant City Attorney Palmer stated at this time the
Mayor should call upon the general public to speak and ask
questions. The City Commission may participate in public
discussion and should respond to questions posed by the
public. Following the call for public comment and
questions, the Mayor should call upon the City Council for
comments, questions and debate but not entertain motions at
this time.
Mayor Thomas opened the public hearing.
The following citizens spoke:
Domdnic Capria, 606 Topside Circle, stated he is
disappointed that they didn't at least call for a workshop
on what is going on here. It is very difficult for them to
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understand completely what has gone on. He felt they
should have this stuff beforehand. He was confused about
the $71,500 for ParkTowne. He stated he would ask his
questions and didn't want the answers until he was done.
Mr. Capria commented on Council not approving the millage
rate of 5.95 on August 31st but they went along and approved
6.15 mills. He felt this was wrong and thought they could
still go lower.
Mr. Capri a commented on FEMA and felt the Shuffleboard
Courts would agitate a lot of people. He spoke of
allocating stormwater and transferring $100,000 and now
they are going to transfer another $100,000. He felt they
should have been lowering the rates on the retention ponds.
He felt the City is robbing Peter to pay Paul and he didn't
like this one bit.
Mr. Capri a then asked how much was in the General Fund in
the FY05/06 budget and FY06/07 budget.
Mr. Capri a then commented on when they voted to have the
Animal Shelter built and it not being built yet. He asked
if the $500,000 is still there or has it gone somewhere
else. He stated they hired someone for $50,000 and now
they are advertising again for $24,000 to $44,000; with
benefits that is like $107,000 a year. They used to pay
$44,000 a year to the Humane Society.
Mr. Capria commented on seeing in the newspapers that
Edgewater was always the second highest then they went down
to 5.99 and the City looked bad because they would have
been first.
~ke T.h~son, Volco Road, stated the problem isn't the
millage rate. He went to Daytona Beach Shores to check to
see if they had the lowest millage rate. He went to a
small putt-putt golf course. Last year's tax rate was
$9,000, $750 per month in round terms. Under the new tax
rate, their rate is $40,000, a rate of $3,333 per month.
This is where the problem is. The land speculators have
managed to kite the price of land in Volusia County to the
point they can't afford it. Pass this tax and walk down
Main Street here. It will be the last time you see Main
Street because it will look like 1931 in a couple of years
because with an over 400% increase in taxation every small
business will be out of business. He feels if they want
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growth, they better save what they have. This problem
can't be solved in here. This problem carne in 1976 from
the Florida Legislature. It was revisited in 1996 and 2006
by the Florida Legislature. They knew what was corning and
chose to do not one thing. He suggested they get on the
phone and talk to the elected representatives to see if
they can get a special session going. If they don't tap
this, it's the people that rent homes that are going to end
up with a $300 increase in home rents and the businesses
that rent storefronts that are going to pack up and sell
out of their garage. Everyone will be a street side
vendor.
Jean Haughwout, 200 N. Riverside Drive, thanked City
Manager Williams for his work and effort in doing this.
She has been a resident for 37 years and a realtor for 33
years. She and her husband own Florida Homes & Land
located on u.S. #1 next to Sun Trust Bank where they have
been in business since 1987. She was present to represent
the non-homestead business and property owners who are
trying to determine how they are going to pay their
proposed taxes. Business people cannot exist in this town
if they have to pay the exorbitant taxes imposed on them.
We struggle to attract businesses and then we drive them
out with high taxes. We do not need empty storefronts. A
large percentage of the non-homestead owners bought their
properties ten to twenty years ago and over the years have
provided a home for many people in this community. Many
owners in this room are now faced with the need to either
sell their homes or increase the rent. Tenants cannot
afford the rent increase that would be needed to make up
the difference. Tenants income has not increased at the
same rate as the taxes imposed on the properties. The next
option is to sell the home but there isn't an abundance of
buyers to purchase investment homes, especially when they
realize the amount of taxes they will pay. She mentioned
all of the for sale signs around town. If a family has a
problem paying their bills, she assumed they would cut back
on their expenses. They realize several entities are
responsible for the tax increase. She and her husband have
attended both of the County Council budget meetings. New
Smyrna Beach has agreed to roll back the rate to 3.37. The
County went to the roll back rate and cut their budget $34
million. On behalf of the owners of property in Edgewater,
she asked Council to examine the budget and show them that
they too know how to scrutinize the budget and cut out the
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fluff. She was confident they would make a sincere effort
to help the community.
Jim Stoner, stated he was a voter, homeowner, property
owner and taxpayer in Edgewater. His debt service too has
increased as well as his real estate taxes, insurance,
personal healthcare, and gasoline and on and on. He hasn't
gotten a raise in the last 24 months but he has had to
modify his budget to deal with it. He questioned why
Council couldn't do that. He feels the budget is
irresponsible and their taxes are so out of line the
collection is criminal. It is easy to government when you
have fat and deep pockets. The challenge of government and
its leaders is to provide for the health and security of
the people without excessive taxation. This Country was
founded on taxation without representation. Government
officials who do not remain accountable to the public are
prone to abuse their powers. Thomas Jefferson stated the
key to maintain our republican form of government is to
narrowly watch it and that is what they intend to do from
this point on. It is obvious that some cannot be trusted
to watch out for the welfare of the people who elected
them. The taxpayers of Edgewater demand that they
significantly cut the fat from the budget and cut the
proposed property tax to the roll back rate. This action
would stimulate rather than continue deteriorating
Edgewater's economy. To say you won't do it is
insubordination. To say you can't do it is incompetence.
In either case they will be replaced by competent citizens
who will work for the people. He thanked Councilman
Vincenzi for not voting to approve the budget at the last
meeting.
Caro~ Ann Stoughton, 2740 Evergreen Drive, also thanked
Councilman Vincenzi for voting no. He had the foresight to
know that they can roll it back even further. She thanked
Councilwoman Rogers for digging into line items. She knows
what is going on. She felt the three minutes is hogwash
because before this Mayor took office they had five
minutes. She wanted to know if that is legal what he did
back in May because when he ran he said that he wanted to
increase the avenues of communication between the citizens
and the Council to ensure the City government. She felt
there was a lot that could be cut out. The budget for all
of the City employees is over $9 million. The debt is $46
or $48 million. When she used to come to Council meetings,
Mr. Hooper said they were in the good $4 million. It goes
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to show that all of the people that thought Mr. Hooper was
doing a good job did us in. ParkTowne Plaza is a fiasco.
She felt they could cut from within. They don't need
Deputy Assistant this and Deputy Assistant that. She hoped
the press reports the debt we are currently in. The $9
million is not for pensions. The debt we are in right now,
she asked how long they have had this debt and if they have
met the Charter and reserves. Over the last six years the
answer was no so that means we really don't have a Charter.
She happens to know that Mr. Hooper gave raises to the tune
of $2,000, $8,000 and $16,000 in Leisure Services. She
asked who is controlling the salaries. She wanted to know
how they got promotions. She thought they had a Personnel
Department. She thought it was based on merit and not who
you now and who you covered for. She felt City Manager
Williams should have blown the whistle on the past
administration and he knew the debt. It is a shame we are
in the state we are in. She asked City Manager Williams
what debt the City is in. City Manager Williams stated $46
million. He stated $33 million of that debt is associated
with Water & Sewer Fund. A very large portion is
associated with Water & Sewer plant and associated
infrastructure. That is the bulk of the debt the City is
in. He believed that was approved back in 1994 or 1995.
Ms. Stoughton asked if it was legal that they are only
allowed in May of having three minutes. The Charter says
they are allowed to speak.
Assistant City Attorney Palmer stated he would be happy to
address any of the Council's comments or concerns. He
didn't know of anything that would make it illegal. Ms.
Stoughton stated that was only his opinion but in the
Charter she thought they had it. Councilwoman Rhodes
stated the Charter doesn't specify how many minutes. Ms.
Stoughton stated they all want to speak but the Council
didn't want to listen. She hoped the press reports it.
Dennis Bi~, President of the Shuffleboard Club, Edgewater,
2419 Woodland Drive, commented on losing the courts across
the street in 2004. In 2005 they came before Council and
asked them to accept the millage and they did support them.
During 2005 they had a lot of meetings with the Recreation
Department and did a lot of planning. They are really
close to breaking ground only need one more permit. They
have had to go to New Smyrna to play for the past two
years. They are residents of Edgewater and want to come
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back to Edgewater and play. He asked Council to support
the Shuffleboard Clubs.
Linda DeBorde, 305 S. Pine Street, New Smyrna Beach, stated
she is not an Edgewater resident, however she pays a lot of
taxes to the City. She is a local real estate broker. She
wears many hats and sees many phases of this. She respects
them for the seats they sit in. They have some difficult
decisions to make. She asked the Council to think about
what is happening to the taxes and what will happens if the
taxes continue to go up. What will they be if all of their
worker bees or service people have to move out? They are
being pushed out. Most of the lower income people rent
properties and will no longer be able to do so. She is
also a property owner here and won't be able to rent to
them. She will have to sell the properties because she
can't rent them to anybody else but she can't rent them for
what they can afford to rent them for. She commented on
having a lot of vacant houses and prices already declining.
The more vacant houses you have the more they will decline.
At your home when you start a budget you figure out
everything you can cut and what you have to do. Then you
try to get the revenue to match that. Cities, municipal
governments and Counties does it backwards. They figure
this is the tax roll and this is what we can bring in and
we make it work out but it is digging them a big hole and
they need to close that up. She implored Council to roll
back the taxes, cut spending and use the resources wisely.
H1ke Visconti, 316 Pine Breeze Drive, stated he heard the
Mayor ask if they had any solutions to the tax base. One
of the solutions is more volunteers. He feels this is one
way to cut taxes. Another way to cut taxes, he believes,
Waste Management. We have two pickups a week for refuse.
He still maintains they can have one-week pickup and save
plenty of dough. Waste Management will give certain size
containers, uniform size containers, big enough containers
to fill the garbage for one pickup a week. He urged
Council to look into Waste Management and see what their
programs are for municipalities.
Steve Zarre~~i, 3403 Juniper Drive, stated right now he is
currently unemployed but he would give them twenty hours a
week for free. He used to be Buildings and Grounds
Director for the Franklin School District in Franklin
Massachusetts. The first year he saved them $125,000.
When he worked for the Harvard Community Health Plan of New
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England they took over RIGHA, Rhode Island Group Health
Associates. The first year he saved them $150,000. The
second year he saved them $135,000. The third year he
saved them $220,000. He encouraged the Council to ask him
how and he would show them where to cut and how to cut.
Mr. Zarrelli stated if he had a million dollars, he would
love to give Interim Police Chief Taves four or five guys.
You can't squeeze blood from a stone. They are all there
to make this work. They need to find out where the fat is
and where they can cut and how they can cut.
Mr. Zarrelli stated his brother-in-law works for an airline
company for over 22 years. He surrendered his 401K Plan to
keep his company running so they wouldn't be out of a job
and that the company wouldn't go bankrupt. He was
wondering how many people here would be dedicated enough to
surrender their 401K Plan or their pension. He feels if
they can't surrender any of our equities, then they better
find ways to pick up the slack. We need to keep the budget
either where it is or roll it back. He would like to see
it back to 2002. He spoke of different people he is going
to be meeting with. Up in New England they had union
grievances. He turned union grievances into task
assignments. He is trying to get people to do their job,
to work and do what they are saying they are going to do.
Don't let them vote them in to tell them what they are
going to expect to need more money on. Tell them what they
are going to save them the money on and please save them
the money.
Linda Sma~~, 1629 Willow Oak Drive, congratulated the
Council. They appreciate them reducing the millage rate
even further. If they don't sound very grateful, they
don't mean to send them that message. She certainly is.
It is a done deal and they appreciate that. She feels they
don't need to be there every year fighting like this. When
they talk about forward thinking and innovative leadership,
they need to be thinking about, not business as usual.
Where do they give up the police officers? Where do they
give up the critical needs services? They need to be
talking about business as unusual. They need to be
thinking outside the box. She had an opportunity to review
the budget and what immediately comes to a corporate mind
is the most expensive item in any operation is labor. They
need to be thinking when they go into labor negotiations
and when they hire people what the compensation package is
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going to be. What can they do and what can we not do. If
they need a defined pension plan in their world verses a
cash balance plan or a defined contribution plan then maybe
they need to apply to be a police officer in Orlando or
Atlanta. In Edgewater they can't afford to do that but
they can afford to do something. Obviously the sick and
vacation cash in policy is costing the budget hundreds of
thousands of dollars. In the non-Police and Fire
Departments alone, cash in vacation and sick time is
$199,180. When you add in Police, you add in another
$133,000 and when you add in Fire you add in another thirty
four thousand and change for a total of $366,560 in
vacation and sick leave buy back. That is not good
business. It doesn't happen anymore in the corporate
world. You have a use it or lose it policy. She is told
that Fire and Police have a very stressful job and that
they shouldn't be encouraging them not to use their sick
time or vacation time as a bonus in lieu of. That would be
a great place to start. There is $367,000 right there that
they can be addressing going forward this year. That is
just the tip of the iceberg. They would appreciate it if
they would do those kinds of things and take a really deep
dive into the business practices of our government and come
up with better ways to do business.
Nestor O~ijnyk, business owner in Edgewater, doesn't want
to see the jobs taken away from the garbagemen. He feels
there is another way to fix up the problem. He suggested
Council roll back the taxes so there is no budget change
from 2005. He would like them to roll it back for the
budget so it doesn't suffer a raise from 2005 for the
proposed taxes and he doesn't want to pay more than 4.95
for the millage rate.
Mayor Thomas closed the public hearing.
Councilwoman Rogers stated at the last meeting she made a
motion to bring in an auditor to audit the books. She is
going to be changing that slightly at the end of this but
at this time she wanted to bring it up. She was not aware
until she met with the auditors that they have even asked
to do nothing but the bare minimum. As far as their audit,
she didn't want to use the word skim, because they have
done things in a very professional manner. They were not
asked to go in depth in any area. They were not asked to
expand the scope. At the last meeting she made mention
that she was concerned that ParkTowne, there was around
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1.18 million in sales and only $500,000 of that money went
to reduce the debt. They are looking at facing debt
service on a road that needs to be put into that area. She
can't help but think they new about that last year or at
least the Managers did. In thinking of that, that $600,000
that wasn't applied to the debt service, if it would have
been managed correctly it could have been put aside and
used towards the debt we have right now that we are going
to be incurring for Base Leg Drive. With that being said,
she has met with the auditors and she will be making some
motions tonight to have everything that has to do with
ParkTowne set up in a separate fund and accounted for
separately. It was all buried in the General Fund. In
normal business accounting, there is a miscellaneous or
suspense account. In governmental accounting, to her that
is what the General Fund is very similar to. There are a
lot of transfers to and from this fund that she is going to
request they have further explanation of. She is also
going to ask for some explanation of some of the large
expenditures in the Water & Sewer Fund. She is going to
pick some very large areas and she feels they will be
pleasantly surprised. She isn't looking to find errors or
point fingers; she is looking to say management needs to
start questioning these things. There were several
comments mentioned by people tonight, one in particular
that is just sticking in her mind. It is that our budget
is irresponsible. That gentleman is addressing this
Council and she is on this Council. When she looks at Ord.
2006-0~28, there is a little sentence that says the City
Council of Edgewater has determined the rate of ad valorem
tax levy. That they have determined it. In the end, the
bottom line is the five of them are going to be held
accountable for that. She didn't prepare this budget and
doesn't know every item in the budget. She takes this
very serious. She doesn't want someone saying she was on
that Council and they were irresponsible. She doesn't want
any part of that. Initially she wanted to have a rate of
5.45. She has this one point millage stuck in her head
because when she first moved here the City was to increase
their millage because of a pension shortfall that she found
out later wasn't really truthful. It wasn't that our
pension was doing so poorly. Last meeting she gave all the
reasons why she knew that wasn't totally a valid reason.
Last meeting she made mention for them to go to a 6.15
which would give them an additional $1.35 million so they
could use that money to pay for items that seemed to be
necessary. She went back and looked ant it wasn't like the
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various departments were going to give everybody huge
increases. They weren't. There were already some people
that received some good size increases.
Councilwoman Rogers commented on calls she received from
citizens telling her how much their tax bills were. She
got a call from one lady whose taxes are $30,000. She and
her husband retired and sold a business. They didn't buy a
house that had some previous history so they could
estimate. She asked if these people have a pension. No.
She has problems with that. In Volusia County and these
other areas they have gone to the roll back rate. She is
there. They need to pinch. She heard from an individual
today. She was trying to help someone that was in trouble.
She made some calls to see what she could do. A citizen of
Edgewater called her to let her know that another citizen
made a comment that was something along the lines that she
was just being nice because she wanted their vote. That is
not her. She is a nice person and a forgiving person but
she doesn't want it to go down that she was irresponsible
with this budget. She wants the roll back.
Councilman Vincenzi stated he thinks the roll back is nice
but he thinks it is not something that is realistic because
things have gone up. He thinks 5.45 is obtainable and a
good compromise. He felt 5.95 was a good goal but it was
too easy to achieve. That tells him more fat can be cut
out pretty easily. He felt Ms. Small made a very good
summation of a lot of points he has been trying to bring
out all summer. Employees here do a great job however they
get paid very well and get exorbitant benefits. They do a
good job but they are allowed some benefits that just
aren't found anywhere he has ever worked, such as the
annual leave and sick leave buy back. He has talked to
City Manager Williams on and off all summer and
particularly in the past month and they have made some
headway. He feels there are a lot of areas that can still
be cut. Benefits being one. If they want to cut $750,000
to $800,000 you have the benefit package, the annual leave
and sick leave buy back and other costs in departments,
like Animal Services, which is expanding and growing.
Voters voted for an Animal Shelter, to spend $500,000, but
he believed they weren't informed totally of the cost it
would be to run it. That is an expense and if they are
prioritizing and talking of cutting back police officers
and fire services, they need to prioritize and see what is
important. To him, Police and Fire are at the top of the
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list and Animal Services is in the middle to low portion.
That is an area that might be cut. He would love to see
the roll back rate but he didn't think it was a realistic
option. He felt 5.45 is a good compromise and that is what
he is going to shoot for tonight.
Councilwoman Rhodes felt the roll back rate would be
irresponsible. That would be the irresponsible thing. In
doing that our roads go to pot and she agreed with Ms.
Small. Thinking outside the box is what they need to do.
It is what they try to do. She mentioned several different
occasions where they spoke about ideas such as charging
people in the City if they have an accident and they don't
live here they were going to charge them to send Police and
Fire to their accident. Take the burden off the taxpayers.
They were going to charge it to the insurance company but
then the insurance company passes it on to the consumer.
The mention about the pension and sick leave and those
things. They are looking at that. City Manager Williams
has already addressed that. Union negotiations next year
will be a whole different way of trying to mitigate some of
those costs. She disagreed with Councilman Vincenzi in one
sense. She didn't feel the City employees are paid
extravagantly. In fact, that is why they have the benefits
because we can't pay them and we don't pay them. Coming on
board years ago it was even worse. They couldn't get
people to work here so they had to give them something.
Her thought is that she cannot vote for roll back rate.
She would hope that the Mayor is going to call a break and
she will revisit the 5.45 verses the 5.95 and make a
decision then. One of those two would be her decision.
She doesn't think letting the City go to heck in a hand
basket and then ten years down the road trying to make up
for it. That is irresponsible. Daytona did that and
almost went bankrupt. She doesn't want to do that and
wouldn't do that.
Councilwoman Lichter stated the City does not set the value
of her manufactured home, which she owns the land under so
she pays regular taxes nor does it set the value of your
business. As they brought out two weeks ago what many
persons did not realize, the County puts the value based on
last year's sale of businesses and homes. That is
stabilizing and going back a bit. Automatically that value
will not be the same next year as this year. She agreed
with Mr. Thompson when he said that it was a matter from
the State Legislature and they need to talk to their house
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representatives and house senate and look at ways that that
could be modified or mollified by making it balance better
so they don't have these big jumps. She mentioned that
they would be selling some land in ParkTowne. She feels
they are trying slowly and cautiously to look at where the
employees are and what perks they have been promised that
they assume they are going to have and what can be done
about that. That can't be done over night.
Councilwoman Lichter stated she worked as a City
Councilperson and she works as one here and she gets a
slight token benefit salary. When she did this job in
Connecticut she didn't get paid a nickel. She did it for
service to her community. When she worked six years on
Planning & Zoning in this City and that City Council
listened to them a little better than they do sometimes,
she didn't get paid a nickel. She is willing to do that
same thing here. She cannot speak for her fellow
Councilpersons. It is certainly something that can be
thought about in the future. She has been on the Council
nine years, which she does for service to her community to
try and help. She's not in it to make money. Her phone is
available. She listens to her constituents and tries to
help them.
Councilwoman Lichter stated the animal shelter was voted on
and there were five things that were on the capital
expenditure voting list. One thing got passed for
$500,000. It was the building. There were other expenses
besides a building that you have whether you are with a
different non=profit group or not. Animal Control people
are Code Enforcement people. They also have salaries and
the Pet Society and the Edgewater Animal Shelter decided
when they did their plans that Animal Control people would
be housed in the new shelter. The new shelter was proposed
three or four years ago. She spoke of there being valid
reasons for the split with the Humane Society. The shelter
right now cannot be built for $500,00 and plans are being
revamped for a different structure type of building large
enough to be in place for the next eight to ten years. It
is a very busy temporary shelter. They are a low kill
shelter. Everyone is tested and fixed before they go to
homes. They have a magnificent rate of placing animals.
This City has always loved their animals. She spoke of
Edgewater animals being put down in three days instead of
the five days that the City was paying for at the Humane
Society. The shelter will pay for itself within two years.
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The two Animal Control Officers are busy morning, noon and
night. As the community enlarges so does the population of
animals. They are doing a magnificent job in a temporary
structure without hot water and without permanent air.
They are waiting for plans to come back in so it can be
built for the $500,000 that it was promised to be built
for. The City owns two acres of land that the City said
they could put their structure on, just like the YMCA that
pays $1 per year rental. It is the same kind of setup and
the contract Pet Society has with the City is to raise
funds for the operation, which it does and to bring in
volunteers, which it does. She is there every morning for
three hours. It is a good project. She works for all of
the projects. That particular one costs $3.50 or $4 per
year in taxes. City Manager Williams confirmed at a
proposed taxable value of $150,000 it would cost a resident
$4.76. Councilwoman Rogers stated for the bond but not for
the operating expenses. Councilwoman Lichter stated she
just said the building itself. Operating will balance and
for three years nothing has been paid. The Pet Society has
actually for four years taken care of the animals. She
felt there were some very good remarks tonight. It didn't
get quite as nasty as two weeks ago. She thanked them for
recognizing that they have tried very hard. She, like
Councilwoman Rhodes, needs a break to determine between
what has been proposed first and what has been proposed
second. She understands how many people love shuffleboard
and how many people have been promised that activity. The
historic mural that also got wiped out never got replaced
and she fought hard for that mural across the street. She
would not relinquish that plan.
Mayor Thomas stated since the September 11th meeting he has
done nothing but talk and hear taxes. He spoke of Ms.
Small pushing him to go out and investigate what is going
on. They are here tonight because the taxes are sky-high
and out of control. Mr. Thompson hit it on the head. Who
sent the property appraiser over here? He asked City
Manager Williams if we could hire our own property
appraiser. He bought his house for $28,600 and now it is
worth $280,000. Why? Who set that value? He has been to
the County Tax Collector, the Appraiser and nobody will
give him many answers. They are very careful. When you
fill up your car with gas, you are paying Federal, State
and County tax. When you go buy something at the store,
you are paying another ~ cent tax on that. When you buy a
fishing license, the counties have the option of putting
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another tax on that. Guess what, Volusia County is putting
that tax on there. When you go buy your boat registration,
they have the option of putting the tax on that. Guess
what they are doing that. He also spoke of having to pay
to get on the beach. He is frustrated just like the
citizens are.
Mayor Thomas spoke of going out and riding with the City
employees. Who else knows better where to cut back than a
City employee? He has gotten some good suggestions from
them. He is planning on getting with City Manager Williams
and put those into effect if he says it is okay. He spoke
of a friend that owns a business in Edgewater that moved to
New Smyrna Beach two or three years ago that bought two
homes on beachside, one being a rental, that is paying
$1,600 on the home he lives in, that he purchased four
months before the rental property and $6,000 on the rental
property. He is going to have to pay $9,000 in taxes with
his business here. We can't afford this. A new governor
is coming into effect and they need to see which governor
has a plan. They are all saying we need tax reform. He
asked what they get out of the County tax. The City gets
nothing. City Manager Williams isn't painting a pretty
picture. He is telling it like it is. He appreciated that
he is honest and isn't pulling any punches.
Mayor Thomas stated they have put this City on a diet. You
cannot starve yourself to death. You will die. His goal
is ~ a mill next year. He wants it to go down and down.
City Manager Williams has been left with things he needs
time to undo and he will undo them. They need to run the
City like a business. He guaranteed City Manager Williams
would do this for them because he has been around him
enough. You can't do it all at once. He thanked Ms. Small
for pushing him.
There was a fifteen-minute recess at this time. The
meeting recessed at 8:22 p.m. and reconvened at 8:37 p.m.
Councilwoman Rogers stated just a few things they need to
consider and she is going to plead with the Council one
last time. She is also going to bring this to the public's
attention. The budget. How is our budget prepared? It is
called a line item budget. It is the simplest and most
common method. It adds the next years proposed spending
increasing on top of the current year total. This is
called traditional or incremental budgeting. There is a
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basic assumption in this budgeting method, that the current
level of expenditures is fully justified. In their own
personal budgets at the end of the year, she doesn't sit
down and do a budget like they would for the government,
but she knows from year to year if there is something she
wants there are certain areas she has to give in on. She
feels they have more fluff; it just hasn't been looked at.
She proposed to City Manager Williams that next year they
have a zero base budget plan and that they use that for the
next year. What they have in front of them are estimates.
Friday she was given a budget. Tonight she was given
another budget. They have this that they are working on.
This tells her that the Finance Director and City Manager
are still working on this. She believes they can do better
and trim the fat and she believes with the plans the City
Manager is going to look at next year, there is more to it
than that. City Manager Williams has been bringing a lot
of things to their attention and she commended him for
that. She wants City Manager Williams to accept the
challenge and get them to the roll back. She really feels
that he can.
Councilwoman Rogers felt they needed to talk more about the
Animal Shelter. Our Attorney has a letter that he gave to
everyone of them where they gave an opinion, which she
asked him to explain to the public.
Assistant City Attorney Palmer stated they were asked the
specific question to give their opinion of what the City's
options would be if the City could not construct the Animal
Shelter for the $500,000 which was the maximum debt
approved by the public by referendum. He went over the
three alternatives they outlined. 1) for the City to
allocate any supplemental funding for the shelter from the
City's General Fund or from other sources 2) The City could
hold a supplemental referendum requesting permission of the
voters for additional millage to provide for more debt to
build the facility or additional funds to construct the
facility or 3) if it wasn't possible to build the shelter
for $500,000 to entertain a motion to abandon the project.
It was their recommendation that if that was the course
Council was going to take that it happen at an advertised
public hearing.
Councilwoman Rogers stated they have already expended funds
for a designer and that design has come back and they were
told it would cost the City approximately $750,000 so now
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they are back to the designer incurring more costs so the
designer can come back and tell us that they can build a
facility smaller so they are within their $500,000 but in
the interim as they go back and forth they are spending
more money. Plus they have an Animal Services
Administrator at a salary of around $50,000. She didn't
know if she was full-time staff or not. City Manager
Williams stated she was full time. Councilwoman Rogers
stated plus she is receiving benefits. Plus something that
was never identified before is the worker's compensation
that would be associated with the volunteers. Initially
the City was going to have the Animal Shelter built on
property that they later found out it wasn't suitable. The
City then purchased property from the County for a certain
specific purpose. Conveniently under the old
administration two to three acres of that land was put
aside for the Animal Shelter. There are a lot of costs
associated with this. She hears in the future it would pay
for itself. Did growth pay for itself? Does growth pay
for itself? Are we incurring expenditures? Are we
incurring things now to pay for this? Yes. Are we in a
situation now where we can afford it? She didn't think so.
She asked the status now on the second design for the
facility because the first facility cost too much. City
Manager Williams stated they submitted a plan. When they
estimated the cost to construct the animal facility,
economic times were quite different. He thought the
estimate was about $100 a square foot, which would provide
for a 5,000 square foot building. Through that the design
began. Three or four years later the cost of construction
has risen drastically. They got the preliminary cost at
$750,000. They sat back down and said they only had
$500,000. They have maintained $500,000. Through that the
building has shrunk in size but the overall design has
stayed intact. They don't want the stage being set for
future years of expansion. They went back to the table and
looked at some alternative forms of construction. The
design hasn't changed. To date, we haven't received any
additional costs as a result of that. They are waiting on
the estimates for construction. They are committed to
holding that line at $500,000. Those moneys are budgeted
in this budget under the Capital Projects Fund where there
is a separate accounting for that money. We have had the
first year of millage rate levied on the properties. Last
year it was done at .06. This year through the increase in
taxable value the millage rate will come down and each year
thereafter it will come down. The City hired an Animal
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Services Administrator because they started providing the
service. They have everybody in a temporary shelter and
they do a very good job with the facility they have
provided for them at this point in time. They had planned
for the facility to be located at the old landfill. Once
it was approved and through engineering and due diligence
it was discovered it wasn't a suitable location. He
commented on other properties they tried to look at that
the City owns. He commented on the opportunity that came
up to the south to purchase seventeen acres, that was
purchased out of the Water & Sewer Fund, and it was
determined at that point in time to co-locate that facility
there which would also be co-located with future expansions
to the south for public safety facilities.
Councilwoman Rogers asked how much they spent for the 17
acres. City Manager Williams and Director of Environmental
Services Terry Wadsworth estimated $300,000. Councilwoman
Rogers mentioned this being another cost in addition to the
$500,000 for the portion of the land that is being used for
the shelter. She asked how much they spent on the first
design that failed to meet their needs because of the
$500,000 construction cost. City Manager Williams stated
the first design was practical and useable and they will be
using that design. Councilwoman Rogers stated but it is
too big so they are going to have to do something. City
Manager Williams stated it may scale down in size.
Councilwoman Rogers stated but there are still costs
involved in architect fees and then there would be another
cost associated with second drawing and then when they
quantify these things and really look at the reality of
this, the citizens were thinking $500,000 that is not a big
dollar amount. They are probably looking at a million
dollars before this is over. City Manager Williams wasn't
comfortable estimating that at this point.
Councilwoman Rogers asked about this being accounted for
separately in the budget. City Manager Williams informed
her it was. Councilwoman Rogers don't we also have a
separate fund set up for the Animal Shelter. City Manager
Williams explained they have a separate department set up
to account for the operations. Councilwoman Rogers asked
if the design fee would be within that or if it is charged
to the General Fund. City Manager Williams stated he had
to go back and research that. It should be charged there.
Councilwoman Rogers stated it would be charged to the
General Fund or the Animal Shelter. City Manager William
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stated the Animal Services Department is a department that
is under the umbrella of the General Fund, which is no
different than the Police or Fire Departments.
Councilwoman Rogers stated so if she pulled up a separate
accounting of the Animal Fund, she would be able to see and
identify the design fee and perhaps an allocation of the 17
acres that the City spent for that land for the Water &
Sewer Fund that they took two to three acres from. City
Manager Williams stated that isn't a standard business
practice they do here and that hasn't been done.
Councilwoman Rogers stated what she was getting at was they
aren't looking at the costs the way it was presented to the
citizens. That is what they are supposed to be doing.
They had this attorney give them an opinion on something
and they have done nothing with it. She felt they needed
to have a complete accounting of every expenditure
pertaining to the Animal Shelter. She suggested they put
it on the agenda at another time, public notice that they
are going to talk about this and realize and let the
citizens know. They voted for it. If the City isn't
handling it correctly, they need to bring it to their
attention and ask if they still want them to continue with
this. She doesn't want to discontinue something without
taking it to the citizens but she thinks the citizens
deserve the opportunity to know what this really costs.
City Manager Williams suggested to Council that if it is
something they want brought up in a future public hearing
that somebody make a motion and they go through the roll
call.
Councilwoman Lichter stated it's not on the agenda tonight.
Councilwoman Rogers said it doesn't matter. Last week
something wasn't either.
City Manager Williams explained they are really here to
adopt the budget. They are getting outside of what they
are supposed to be doing. Councilwoman Rogers stated this
is a big thing. If they do this, this is a good way for
them to say they can get to a roll back because now they
are going to look at the numbers and they have the auditors
coming in to expand the scope and they need to look at
these numbers heavy. She spoke of receiving calls from
City employees. She isn't down on City employees and she
isn't down on their pension. She is down on the management
of these things and the fact that they haven't been told
correctly some of these problems. They need to make it
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transparent and fix it. If you have a problem you can't
hide it. You have to tell the truth and get on with it.
City Manager Williams explained the purpose of the meeting
is to adopt the budget. They have brought forward
opportunities to give the Council and to the roll back
rate. They can quantify these items within the budget. By
law they have to present a balanced budget. It is very
difficult for staff to say next year we will have or won't
have hurricanes. What they have presented, they feel like
they can quantify. It is Council's pleasure whether or not
they want to go to full roll back rate. These are the
targeted quantifiable items they are going to cut within
this budget irregardless of whatever scenario is brought
forward and approved tonight, any proposed capital
expenditures will be shoved to the third quarter of the
fiscal year. They will do a mid-year budget review. They
will look at the revenues verses expenditures and then they
will consider any items that were removed from the process
tonight that can be put back. First and foremost the
priority is to adopt the budget. Secondarily is to have
enough funds that they can still provide the services they
are offering right now without any reduction in those
services.
Mayor Thomas stated they have strayed off the subject and
closed the public hearing and entertained a motion on the
budget.
Councilwoman Rogers made a motion to go to the roll back
rate of 4.95.
Assistant City Attorney Palmer stated just as a point of
order. At this time prior to entertaining motions to adopt
the millage rate, separate motions to amend the budget need
to be considered. For each of those motions they should be
considered separately and allow time for Council and public
discussion prior to a vote. At this time they shouldn't
vote to approve the budget but only to make amendments to
the tentative budget that was adopted at the September 11th
meeting. They can be general motions in the sense of amend
the tentative budget in accordance with whatever slide they
saw or any other manner that the Council sees fit.
Councilwoman Rogers stated so you would amend the budget
before you set the millage rate. Assistant City Attorney
Palmer stated you have to amend the tentative budget before
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you can establish a final millage and then they would adopt
the final budget.
City Manager Williams informed Council they had two
scenarios that were presented to them for achieving those
roll back rates. He placed on emphasis on if it is
Council's pleasure to do the roll back rate, they decide
they do not want to do Base Leg Drive, which he thought
they would expose themselves to litigations, lawsuits and
ultimately courts may rule to produce that road as they
were contractually obligated. Second scenario is that he
will be forced to eliminate positions to the tune of
$145,000 and that is the stage that will be set,
consideration that they have five days before the start of
the fiscal year and they would be notifying employees very
directly.
Councilwoman Rogers stated as far as Base Leg goes, so they
are contractually obligated. Is there a date or
performance time mentioned in that. City Manager Williams
recalled there were performance dates that were specified
and they have already passed. Assistant City Attorney
Palmer confirmed that was correct.
Councilwoman Rogers asked how long ago. Assistant City
Attorney Palmer stated the purchase agreement between the
City and Massey was dated February 19, 2003. The
construction of the easterly 500 feet of the above-
described road from its intersection with ParkTowne
Boulevard shall commence within four months from the
effective date and shall completed within ten months of the
effective date. The remainder of Street B shall be
completed within two years of the effective date.
Councilwoman Rogers stated then it should have been
completed by February 2005.
Councilwoman Rogers stated the motion is that they are
supposed to be amending some item in the budget or in this
case the different examples, he as given them. The budget
at 4.95 per $1,000 with Base Leg Drive removed. A lawsuit
hasn't come to the City yet. She isn't going to totally
say they are never going to do Base Leg Drive and that they
aren't going to do it, but what she was saying is that as
time goes on she believes they are going to find more money
and that they can probably get started on this before the
fiscal year end. She doesn't want to commit to this now.
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She wants to do the 4.95 and she wants to work. She wants
it at 4.95.
City Manager Williams stated point of clarification.
Councilwoman Rhodes stated but that's not roll back. City
Manager Williams addressed to Councilwoman Rogers that she
had addressed roll back rate, which is 4.9219.
Councilwoman Rogers stated roll back and that they go with
the example that says Base Leg Drive removed and she asked
if she needed to explain the other items they are going to
cut out because some of this isn't there anyways such as
the police officers and the vehicle lease. Assistant City
Attorney Palmer suggested she consider a motion to amend
the adopted tentative budget. Councilwoman Rogers stated
they have three pages that talk about 4.95. Assistant City
Attorney Palmer stated as distributed by the City Manager
at the September 11th meeting to be consistent with the
budget proposals set forth tonight under City staff's
report for a budget at 4.95 per $1,000.
Councilwoman Rhodes stated 4.95 was not what she wants.
She wants 4.9219. Councilwoman Rogers stated that is the
roll back and that she was right.
Councilwoman Rogers made a motion that they go along with
the budget at 4.9219 per $1,000 with Base Leg Drive
removed.
The MOTION DIED due to the lack of a second.
Mayor Thomas entertained another motion.
Councilman Vincenzi made a motion to amend the budget as
per recommendation of the City Manager to 5.45, second by
Councilwoman Rhodes.
The MOTION FAILED 2-3. Councilwoman Rogers, Councilwoman
Lichter and Mayor Thomas voted NO.
Mayor Thomas entertained another motion.
Councilwoman Rogers made a motion to do a budget at 4.95
per $1,000 with Base Leg Drive removed, second by
Councilwoman Lichter.
Councilwoman Rhodes stated it is 4.95, not 5.95.
Councilwoman Lichter withdrew her second.
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September 25, 2006
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Mayor Thomas asked if there was a second. The MOTION DIED
due to the lack of a second.
Mayor Thomas asked if there was another motion.
Councilwoman Rhodes made a motion to split the difference
between 5.45 and 5.95 and go with 5.70. Assistant City
Attorney Palmer stated that motion would have to include
the specific changes to the adopted tentative budget.
Mayor Thomas confirmed that City Manager Williams didn't
address a budget to go there. Councilwoman Rhodes asked if
she could just say with the intended budget considerations
that need to be made to do that. City Manager Williams
stated they would have to take a recess, retype an
ordinance and amend the budget.
Councilwoman Rhodes stated at 5.45, she had to really
search her conscience because they have a Charter
obligation to have a Reserve Fund. Ms. Stoughton stated
you haven't had it all along. Mayor Thomas informed her
she was out of order. Councilwoman Rhodes stated we have
it now and her intention is to keep it. That is an
obligation they don't have an option for. Her hesitancy in
going lower than that is hurricanes or any other emergency
we might have. Road resurfacing and she is of the opinion
they need two more police officers. Her point is that to
run the City into the ground is not her job and she is
termed out. This is not political. Her job is to see that
when she leaves this that this City is a solvent City.
That they have all the services they need and require. She
agreed with Mr. Visconti about the one day a week trash
collection. They tried it five years go and people were so
up in arms that they couldn't do it. Many things have been
tried over the year and they are still trying. In good
conscience she can't go lower than 5.45 and she felt
Councilman Vincenzi made a good point. That is obtainable
and we might be able to survive it and not be wiped out if
an emergency comes along.
Councilwoman Lichter made a motion that they amend the
budget so that the rate would become 5.95 in accordance
with the slide that was presented tonight.
The MOTION DIED due to the lack of a second.
Page 28 of 28
Council Special Meeting
September 25, 2006
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Councilwoman Rogers made a motion since the 4.95 and 4.92
wasn't approved, that they go to a 5.25 and they will use
the difference between 4.95 and 5.25 for Base Leg Drive and
then as staff is going through the numbers, because again
these are all estimates. She was sure they would find the
additional difference they need so they can crate Base Leg
Drive. She made a motion that they go to 5.25, that they
additional amount over the 4.95 would be allocated toward
Base Leg Drive.
Councilwoman Rhodes stated but once again they don't have
the 5.25 amended. Councilwoman Rogers stated they use the
4.95 and then the additional funds they get over the 4.95
would be used for Base Leg Drive.
Assistant City Attorney Palmer stated if that is the
consensus and the motion to amend the budget in a way that
is not depicted, certainly in the charts that City Manager
Williams provided, he suggested the motion should be a
direction to staff followed by a recess to rework the
budget in accordance with the millage proposal.
Mayor Thomas stated there is a motion on the floor.
Councilwoman Rogers stated and then they do a recess so
they can.
Mayor Thomas stated it had to be seconded. The MOTION DIED
due to the lack of a second.
There was a brief discussion about Base Leg Drive. City
Manager Williams stated they would have to entertain a
motion to amend the budget to a different millage rate.
They would have to recess and go back and crunch the
numbers to be able to tell them what that accommodates and
then bring it back to Council and address that at that
point. They put together a number of scenarios of 5.7, 5.3
and 5.2 all those just didn't come through.
Councilwoman Rhodes stated they have to come to a
consensus. Mayor Thomas stated he has met with City
Manager Williams and they have gone over and they have
shaved and shaved. He says he has to have 5.95 in order
to operate the City. He strongly suggested someone make a
motion at 5.95 with a goal that next year this time they
are at 5.45.
Page 29 of 29
Council Special Meeting
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Councilwoman Rogers made a motion that they amend the
budget to 5.25. She understood the Finance Director and
the City Manager is going to have go to go back and rework
the numbers. Budget at 4.95. They use those numbers. The
dollar amount they are going to receive which is an
additional .3 mills, whatever that amount is will go to
Base Leg Drive. It's not like they have to do a whole lot.
Just tell her what .3 mills is going to bring to the City.
She believed it would be pretty close to the cost of Base
Leg Drive.
The MOTION DIED due to the lack of a second.
Councilwoman Lichter stated Councilwoman Rhodes made
motion earlier that she didn't know what happened to
amend the budget to a figure between 5.45 and 5.95.
thinks there might be, by looking over the lists, a
of things that aren't as important as other things.
a
it, to
She
couple
Councilwoman Lichter made a motion to amend the budget to a
figure between 5.45 and 5.95. Mayor Thomas asked her if
she had a figure. Councilwoman Lichter stated something
that is half way. Councilwoman Rhodes stated she couldn't
make the motion because they didn't have a scenario. They
can make the motion if they give the scenario for 5.45 with
the extra quarter mill going to road resurfacing.
City Manager Williams stated if it is Council's pleasure to
amend the budget at 5.45, these are quantifiable items they
can target that they have to cut out to present to them a
balanced budget. They will go through the fiscal year.
They will look for opportunities for savings, efficiencies
throughout that fiscal year. Any savings they achieve then
they can start allocating back those quantifiable items
that they have removed from the budget. If it is so
approved that it is road resurfacing, they can accommodate
that. Tonight, at this process, they have to quantify that
dollar amount. They remove those items and they can look
at that down the road. It will be this time next year when
they are looking at that just to verify that all of the
revenues are coming in as they projected.
Councilwoman Rhodes stated if they make it 5.70, then they
are guaranteed the road resurfacing. It isn't if the money
is there.
Page 30 of 30
Council Special Meeting
September 25, 2006
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City Manager Williams asked for clarification if they just
described 5.45. Councilwoman Rhodes stated Councilwoman
Lichter was wanting to know about between 5.45 and 5.95.
She was trying to explain how to make that motion.
City Manager Williams stated they would have to go back if
they amend the budget right now and calculate that
difference and they will tag a quantifiable item to it
tonight.
Mayor Thomas stated what they needed to do if she makes a
motion and it gets seconded, then they will take a recess.
City Manager Williams stated if it is passed to amend it,
they will go take a recess and start crunching numbers and
they will look at what they are going to give up tonight.
If that is not acceptable, they will re-amend the motion
and go back through the process again.
Counci~woman Rhodes moved to amend the budget to 5.70,
second by Counci~woman Lichter.
The MOTION CARRIED 3-2. Counci~woman Rogers and Counci.lman
Vincenzi voted NO.
Mayor Thomas called a ten-minute recess. City Manager
Williams informed him it might take longer than ten
minutes.
The meeting recessed from 9:15 p.m. until 10:05 p.m.
City Manager Williams went over the General Fund Revenue
and Expenditure Summary with regard to changes to be made
in order to accommodate the 5.70 mills. (Attached)
City Manager Williams informed the Council they still have
police officers in the budget, equipment associated with
them and all of the other capital expenditures other than
the little bit of money that was removed. They also have
$200,000 for road resurfacing as well. He asked what
Council's pleasure was.
Assistant City Attorney Palmer stated at this time if
Council desires to make a motion to amend the tentative
budget that was adopted on September 11, 2006 in accordance
with City Manager Williams' proposal now would be the time
for the motion. After the motion and second they should
move to Citizen Comments.
Page 31 of31
Council Special Meeting
September 25, 2006
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Mayor Thomas entertained a motion.
Councilwoman Rhodes confirmed that this still keeps the
Reserve Fund. City Manager Williams informed him this
estimates that at the end of this fiscal year, they will be
at the required minimum for our Charter Reserve. He
couldn't begin to describe for certain that they will be
able to be there. They are very comfortable that they are
now five days within the close of the fiscal year. They
have looked at revenues and expenditures and they feel like
they will be there. Again it is an estimate. They may go
through the audit process. The Financial Statements may be
issued and they may be below the required minimum. If they
are, they will go in and stop any capital expenditures that
are remaining in the budget to accommodate for that.
City Manager Williams stated the third quarter of the
fiscal year would be the first opportunity to spend any
money related to capital.
Mayor Thomas again entertained a motion.
Councilwoman Lichter made a motion to accept the change to
the amended millage rate of 5.70 and that would include the
changes that staff has made to accommodate those figures.
Assistant City Attorney Palmer stated just for
clarification this motion would be to amend the tentative
budget that was adopted on September 11, 2006 and not adopt
the millage rate yet.
Councilwoman Lichter stated she would make that motion.
Assistant City Attorney Palmer stated it would be to amend
the adopted tentative budget.
Councilwoman Rhodes seconded the motion.
Mayor Thomas asked for Citizen Comments.
The following citizen spoke:
Dominic Capria, 606 Topside Circle, stated he was a little
confused on the amended budget and asked if that meant if
it is amended, they can not go up on it, the 5.70. City
Page 32 of32
Council Special Meeting
September 25,2006
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Manager Williams informed him no. Mayor Thomas informed
him they were amending the 6.15 to reflect 5.70.
Mr. Capria asked City Manager Williams if he meant 15% in
the minimum Reserve Fund. City Manager Williams informed
him that was correct.
Mr. Capria asked how much is in the General Fund now
compared to last year. City Manager Williams informed him
they believed there would be a little over $2.2 million.
Mr. Capria asked how much was in the Stormwater Fund. City
Manager Williams didn't have an answer for him. Mr. Capria
stated they transferred $100,000 twice. City Manager
Williams informed him no they didn't. He explained he was
talking Stormwater and the transfers from the Water & Sewer
Fund. They have lowered those transfers by $200,000 so
they are taking less money from the Water & Sewer Fund and
putting less money into the General Fund. It was
originally proposed at $1 million. That is what he
believed was the $200,000 that Mr. Capria was describing.
Mr. Capri a informed him it was.
Caro~ Ann Stoughton, 2740 Evergreen Drive, stated she
wanted to know exactly how much is in the Reserve Fund.
City Manager Williams didn't have that answer. Ms.
Stoughton stated but you are the City Manager. How much
was there this time last year when he was Finance Director?
Aren't they supposed to, according to Charter, keep a
minimum balance of 15%? She thought she heard City Manager
Williams say earlier they didn't have 10% but they may at
the end of the year have what is required, which is 15%.
City Manager Williams stated the last issued audited
Financial Statements they had 10.01%. If you take the
revenues and calculate them year to date and subtract the
expenditures year to date that is how you would determine
your fund balance. They described at the workshop that
figure changes daily and will change daily until they get
to the end of the fiscal year and could possibly even
change pending the outcome of the audit. Ms. Stoughton
informed City Manager Williams her time was going while he
talked.
Mayor Thomas informed Ms. Stoughton she let him by asking
the questions.
Ms. Stoughton stated she thought when you had a Charter
those amounts had to be there at all times. She wasn't
Page 33 of 33
Council Special Meeting
September 25, 2006
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there to assail him but it just goes to show that a few
Councilpeople and people in the audience are putting a
little pressure. She was sure they could eventually get
there and find hidden moneys and bring it up to reduce the
taxes for the taxpayer. She stated we are not in
compliance with the Charter right now.
City Manager Williams stated she brought up a really good
point, which is really an indication of no justification to
lower the millage rate. He thought they were trying to
describe that they felt comfortable enough based off of
estimations to make that recommendation. The City's not at
the required minimum at this point. It is very tough for
him to continue to recommend a reduction in the millage
rate based off of that fact.
Councilwoman Rhodes stated she thought they were. City
Manager Williams stated it is estimation. Councilwoman
Rhodes stated that is all they have to go on right now.
She knew he couldn't guarantee but she was asking him to
give her his best shot. He told her was at this point, in
his estimation, that by the end of this fiscal year they
would be at 15%. City Manager Williams stated if they go
on what they know is certain, they know for certain that at
the end of fiscal year 2005 they were at 10.01%. Based off
of that, they shouldn't be considering any reduction in the
millage rate. If they want to base that off of an
estimation as they are sitting there tonight, they are
basing that as an estimation. Councilwoman Rhodes stated
they are five days from the end of the fiscal year and that
City Manager Williams should have a pretty good estimate.
City Manager Williams stated he felt fairly comfortable
telling them that.
Councilwoman Rhodes stated after the hurricanes, they
weren't solvent at all. They had their Reserve Fund that
and much of that was used and until they recouped from FEMA
to bring it back up but every year she sat there and she
didn't ever remember them being at the 15% figure. Every
year she said they needed to be at that figure. That was
something that was not negotiable and it never happened.
It has to happen. There is no option. She stated her
understanding was if they are within 1% of it, they are
very close to it based on City Manager Williams estimate
five days out from the end of the fiscal year. She asked
if that is so based on his estimate.
Page 34 of 34
Council Special Meeting
September 25, 2006
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City Manager Williams again stated it is an estimate. He
did not know what would come out of the audit. He didn't
know what proposed adjusted journal entries would take
place. Assuming everything is correct, he estimated they
would be at 17 or 18%. Councilwoman Rhodes believed he was
pretty darn close.
Linda Sme~~, 1629 Willow Oak Drive, stated on the website
it says September 30, 2005 the Reserves were $6,690,288.
She asked City Manager Williams if he knew what it was at
mid-year. City Manager Williams informed her he didn't
know where she got that number. Ms. Small informed him it
was on the website. It was filed by Mr. Hooper and City
Manager Williams at the end of the fiscal year last year.
City Manager Williams stated it probably included multiple
funds. $1.1 million is what the reserve balance was for
the General Fund.
Ms. Small asked what budgeted surplus was. We planned for
a budget surplus obviously. City Manager Williams
explained budgeted surplus in governmental accounting they
talk about excess revenues over expenditures. When they
look at our revenues verses our expenditures that is what
they are projecting as a profit. They were being very
conservative with that because they knew they were shooting
at a moving target with the fund balance. If they didn't
get there in 2006 they knew the mandate would be there in
2007. That was the area they targeted for the fund balance
reserve.
Ms. Small stated at the end of the year, whatever surplus
they have, is that rolled over anywhere into the next
fiscal year budget or is that redistributed into investment
funds and enterprise fund and reserve funds. City Manager
Williams explained that reserve would get transferred
directly to what they are talking about as reserves
tonight. The focus of discussion as it relates to reserves
right now is strictly on the General Fund. The Charter
specifies you have to have 15 to 25%.
Mayor Thomas closed the public hearing.
Mayor Thomas stated there is a motion on the floor and a
second. He asked for a roll call vote.
Page 35 of 35
Council Special Meeting
September 25, 2006
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The MOTION CARRIED 3-2. Counci~woman Rocrers and Councilman
Vincenzi voted NO.
Assistant City Attorney Palmer asked if there were any
other amendment motions to the budget.
Assistant City Attorney Palmer read Ord. 2006-0-28 into the
record. He stated for the record the name of the taxing
authority is the City of Edgewater, the rolled-back millage
rate is 4.9219 mills, the percentage by which the proposed
millage rate exceeds the rolled-back rate is 15.81% and the
millage rate proposed by the ordinance is 5.70 mills.
Assistant City Attorney Palmer stated the Mayor should now
entertain a motion to adopt Ordinance 2006-0-28,
establishing a millage rate of 5.70 mills for fiscal year
2006-2007 and then entertain public comments and Council
discussion prior to a vote.
Counci~woman Rhodes moved to approve Ord. 2006-0-28,
estab~ishing a mi~~age rate of 5. 70 mi~~s for fiscu year
2006/2007, second by Counci~woman Lichter.
Councilwoman Rogers disagreed and felt they should be lower
than that.
Due to there being no citizen comments, Mayor Thomas opened
and closed the public hearing.
Mayor Thomas announced there was a motion on the floor and
it had been seconded. He asked for a roll call vote.
The MOTION CARRIED 3-2. Counci~woman Rogers and Councilman
Vincenzi voted NO.
Mayor Thomas asked for a motion to adjourn.
Assistant City Attorney Palmer stated they had to set the
budget first. He read Ord. 2006-0-29 into the record.
Counci~woman Lichter moved to approve Ord. 2006-0-29,
second by Counci~woman Rhodes.
Due to there being no citizen comments, Mayor Thomas opened
and closed the public hearing.
Page 36 of 36
Council Special Meeting
September 25, 2006
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The MOTION CARRIED 3-2. Counci~woman Rogers and Councilman
Vincenzi voted NO.
Mayor Thomas again asked for a motion to adjourn.
City Manager Williams informed Council they needed to
entertain a motion to amend the original motion that
Councilwoman Rogers made during the first special meeting
to go out for RFP's or solicit RFP's for auditors.
Councilwoman Rhodes asked if they wanted to do this or wait
for the meeting.
City Manager Williams informed her they did it during the
Special Meeting last time so he thought it would be. Mayor
Thomas asked Councilwoman Rogers if she wanted to do that.
Councilwoman Rogers informed him she did.
Counci~woman Rogers stated ~ast time she made a motion that
they bring in an accounting firm, an audi ting firm to audi t
entire~y the financia~ statements. She is going to amend
that motion. As she had mentioned ear~ier, the CPA firm
tha t the Ci ty has performing the audi t has never been asked
to expand the scope and they have a~ways been asked to do
the rni n i""-71fI ~eve~ of audi t. Her proposu is tha t they use
them and request that they expand the scope and in defining
tha t, in the Genera~ Fund there are severa~ transfers in
and transfers out. She be~ieved there is a vuue that they
consider materia~ of around $20,000 and so therefore any
transfers in or out of the Genera~ Fund that exceed $20,000
they need detai~ed breakdown scope. Hha t she is ~ooking
for specifica~~y. In the Genera~ Fund is a separate
accounting of everything that has to do with ParkTowne
Industria~ or the ParkTowne property, the purchase, the
sa~e, where the payments went. One item she has a~ready
brought out in the open is the $1.18 mi~~ion that we
recei ved ~ast year for SlUe of property when $500,000 of
that went to debt service. Where did the ba~ance go? If
they knew where it went, they wo~dn't have a millage ~ike
we do right now. At ~east she hoped they woul.dn't. She
was a~so wanting them to begin ~ooking at the Stormwater
Rec~aimed Water Fund. We have a ~ot of debt attributed to
that fund. We receive revenue. She wants to see that those
revenues are being used to reduce that debt. She wants to
fee~ comfortab~e wi th that.
Page 37 of37
Council Special Meeting
September 25, 2006
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City Manager Williams stated when you say Stormwater
Reclaimed Water Fund. He thought she was mixing funds. He
asked if she meant the Water and Sewer Fund. Councilwoman
Rogers informed him yes. She stated they had ta1ked in a
meeting they had ~ast week regarding the pension and there
are severu items there that the auditors rea~~y haven't
de~ved into or made comments on because again they were not
asked to. We have three separate funds with the Ci ty or
three dirrerent p~ans and some or these p~ans or
departments have more than one p~an ~ike the defined
contribution and derined beneri t p~an are part of the
benefi ts that is offered to the Genera~ Ezrp~oyees. We uso
have the Fire Department. We a~so have the Po~ice
Department. She isn't ~ooking at issues right at this
moment in the Po~ic. Department or the Fire Department.
She is ~ooking specifica~~y at the General Ezrployees
Pension. She asked JIB. Leazy to look at that further and
give them soma infozmation regarding it and they can get
that infozmation rrom the City Manager. She was sure that
he has information from the actuaz'y and maybe JIB. Leary
co~d read the past year's cnmrftAnts when they are working
on this year's audit. She has a~ready made mention or the
An.;mal Shelter. She has asked for City starf to go back
and do that since it is relatively new and it Bho~dn't be
that hard ror them to go back and track. A1.l expenditures,
whether it is indirect or direct. ftlat is her motion.
Mayor Thomas stated all that. Councilwoman Rogers stated
all that. They had to because the auditor is sitting here
and she needs to know where they are going with this.
City Manager Williams informed Council if they had any
questions for Ms. Leary, he felt she would be only too glad
to answer them or if they would like to add some areas to
expand the scope.
Councilwoman Lichter asked if she had a second. Counci~
Vincenzi seconded the motion.
Councilwoman Lichter asked for discussion. She stated she
thinks it is a whole new ball of wax here. It sounds like
a totally different audit and she wasn't sure she wanted to
vote until she had some idea of what they are talking about
in price with this situation. She was sure it's a
different price. She wasn't sure if the rest of the
Councilor she wanted to go with the present auditor or if
Page 38 of38
Council Special Meeting
September 25, 2006
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this goes out to bid. She wasn't sure if they are over the
line of a totally different contract.
Mayor Thomas stated he was confused.
Councilwoman Rogers stated if they go outside, their City
Manager at the last meeting told them they are looking at
$40,000 to $60,000. We are already engaged with McDirmit
to perform the audit. They have always been asked to do
the bare minimum. During the meeting she had with them,
they didn't seem reluctant. They seemed very pleased and
willing to cooperate with us and work with us and more than
willing to open up and look at things. They are auditors.
This is what they want to do. Why do the bare minimum and
give it the rubber stamp? Her feeling is that this will be
a less expensive way to get this accomplished.
Councilwoman Rhodes and Councilwoman Lichter stated but how
much is it going to cost? Councilwoman Rogers stated right
now they don't know because she has just, she is putting
this proposal out there and they can ask her to come back
and give us a price.
City Manager Williams stated he certainly didn't think he
could speak for the firm itself but he had a feeling that
an expansion of their scope of services will probably
involve a separate engagement letter with costs associated
with it. He informed Ms. Leary if she would like to speak
to that she was welcome to do so.
Ke~~y Lea~, McDirmit, Davis, & Puckett, stated some of
what they are asking would go back several years so yes
City Manager Williams was right, it's separate. It's what
they call an agreed upon procedures. It would be a
separate engagement from the normal audit that they do.
She would need to sit down and like on ParkTowne, just say
how many years back and what would they have to look at.
Councilwoman Rogers stated what she is looking at is that
they have received sales and the money came in and the
money should have went to reduce the debt on that and it
wasn't used to reduce the debt. It was almost like it was
a business venture that the City engaged in. They got an
extra $600,000 last year and spent it however they pleased.
It did not go directly back to reduce the debt on ParkTowne
and that is poor stewardship.
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September 25, 2006
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Mayor Thomas stated excuse me, they aren't debating this.
He thought he understood her motion now. Last time
Councilwoman Rogers made a motion to get an outside auditor
to come out and we all voted for it to audit the auditor.
Now she is amending the motion. This is our auditor now to
get her.
Councilwoman Rhodes stated so you want her to audit her
audit. Councilwoman Rogers stated no. She is asking her
to expand the scope because they have never expanded it
before. Mayor Thomas informed Councilwoman Rogers she was
directing her to do specific things right. Councilwoman
Rogers informed him yes. Mayor Thomas stated he
understood.
Ms. Leary stated they, as a CPA firm, they just went
through a peer review where another audit firm audits their
audit and they got a perfectly clean opinion. It would be
kind of pointless for the City to pay a lot of money to
hire another auditor to audit them. They have been through
that procedure. They have to every three years. It is
standard procedure.
Councilwoman Rogers asked Ms. Leary to explain to the
Council that since they have done the audit for the City
that they have not been asked to go to this level.
Councilwoman Lichter stated that is her question. What you
did for the City, is that what you generally do for other
cities or do they do this more in-depth type of thing? Ms.
Leary stated a traditional audit, they audit ten other
cities and they have certain procedures they do but they
don't necessarily go into the depth of some of the things
they are wanting them to go into. They can and they have
been engaged before to do those additional procedures.
Councilwoman Rhodes felt she was making the point that this
City does the same as every other City. Ms. Leary informed
her yes. Councilwoman Lichter stated that is the general
type of audit that you do. Some people want more
information and ask for it but generally Edgewater in the
past years has been getting what you do for other cities.
Ms. Leary stated exactly and it is sent to the auditor
general's office and they accept it.
Councilwoman Rogers stated during their meeting, Ms. Leary
welcomed the opportunity and at the same time she let it be
known that no one from this Council has ever spoken to her
Page 40 of 40
Council Special Meeting
September 25,2006
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and asked for things to be explained. She was sure if they
wanted to go comparing these other cities that the auditor
represents probably don't have the mess that we have.
Councilwoman Rhodes stated they are our auditors and they
say we don't have a mess. Ms. Leary stated well that is
not true, if you read the management letter comments they
have had for years they have had recommendations about the
Charter, the 15%. Councilwoman Rogers stated and the
million dollar transfer out of stormwater into the General
Fund, which she has been told has nothing to do with it but
it does.
Councilwoman Rhodes stated but none of that has anything to
do with what she was wanting her to look into.
Councilwoman Rogers stated yes it does because she is
looking at it.
Mayor Thomas stated Councilwoman Rogers is asking for some
specific points to be investigated and he doesn't have any
problem with that if she wants to amend her motion.
Councilwoman Rhodes stated she doesn't have a problem with
it either. She would just like to know how much money it
is going to cost.
Mayor Thomas stated there is a motion on the floor and
asked if there was a second. Councilman Vincenzi seconded
the motion again.
Mayor Thomas asked for a roll call vote.
The MOTION CARRIED 5-0.
Carol Stoughton stated she would like to go on Citizen
Comments. They haven't had a chance all night.
Mayor Thomas told her to corne right ahead.
The following citizens spoke:
Caro~ Ann Stoughton, 2740 Evergreen Drive, thanked the
Councilmernbers that voted for this and she thanked
Councilwoman Rogers for bringing it up. They have things
to find out. What has happened for the past six years.
Where the money has gone, where the money is, where it is
allocated to, where the sales went. The public, the
taxpayers have a right because it hasn't been done before.
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September 25, 2006
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.. IT .
Thanks for stepping up to bat because they have a right to
know. She would also like to see where the money went and
asked if they are done with Professional Engineering
Consultants with all the stormwater expenses. She felt
that was a waste.
Matthew Negedly, 540 Coral Trace Boulevard, applauded the
Council. He felt the scrutinization has been great. While
tough at times, this is good. This is good, healthy
democracy. The unique irony in that, he agreed they need
to look at all the numbers, but they just approved expended
rolls that they don't know how much it is going to cost.
He agreed with the spirit but they have no idea how much it
is going to be.
ADJOURNMENT
There being no further business to discuss, the meeting
adjourned at 10:40 p.m.
Minutes submitted by:
Lisa Bloomer
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Council Special Meeting
September 25,2006