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08-13-2007 - Regular CITY COUNCIL OF EDGEWATER REGULAR MEETING AUGUST 13, 2007 7:00 P.M. COMMUNITY CENTER MINUTES 1. CALL TO ORDER Mayor Thomas called the Regular Meeting to order at 7:00 p.m. in the Community Center. ROLL CALL Mayor Michael Thomas Councilwoman Debra Rogers Councilman Dennis Vincenzi Councilwoman Harriet Rhodes Councilwoman Judith Lichter City Manager Jon Williams City Clerk Susan Wadsworth City Attorney Carolyn Ansay Present Present Present Present Present Present Present Present INVOCATION, PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE There was a silent invocation and pledge of allegiance to the Flag. 2. APPROVAL OF MINUTES There were no minutes to be approved at this time. 3. PRESENTATIONS/PROCLAMATIONS/PLAQUES/CERTIFICATES/DON ATIONS There were no Presentations at this time. 4. CITIZEN COMMENTS The following citizens spoke: Dot Carlson, 1714 Edgewater Drive, commended the police officer that showed up at her house Wednesday night. One of her cats was killed by two pit bulls. The officer, a young lady, was very prompt and very good and they are still looking for the dogs. She wanted to commend them on Page 1 of 38 Council Regular Meeting August 13,2007 a good job and she hopes this doesn't happen to a lot of people. There are dogs in her neighborhood running loose as well as stray cats. She plans on trapping as many as she can, having them fixed, and setting them free. Mayor Thomas asked Ms. Carlson if she was pleased with the City services. Ms. Carlson informed him absolutely. Mayor Thomas stated the problem is there are still dogs running around and that is against City Code. Ms. Carlson informed him she thought she knew where the goods lived. She hasn't followed up on the report but she intends to. She knows where the dogs went. Mayor Thomas asked if the matter was still under investigation. Ms. Carlson informed him she hoped so. She spoke to Animal Control the next day. William Glasser, 1703 Needle Palm Drive, stated back on the second of July he inquired about why we have a 30-mile per hour speed limit in Florida Shores when the City Code of Ordinances says all streets shall be 25 mile per hour with a few exceptions. The Chief of Police was kind enough to do a little research and maybe with the help of somebody at City Hall with a good memory. Back on September 21, 1964, the City Council under new business discussed raising the speed limits in Florida Shores. At some point after some discussion where folks made some strange thoughts, one gentleman said he felt the speed limit should be 30 miles per hour all the way through. He also stated there are a number of children in Florida Shores now and you have to be very careful. It seems like that is a dichotomy to him. One other gentleman said it was hard to drive a car that slow. After that, one of the Councilmen who later became Mayor, asked that they take a poll of the audience, who were from Florida Shores by raising their hands. By a large majority they voted to have the speed limit 30 mile per hour throughout Florida Shores. He read Ordinance 569 that was adopted back on August 21, 1967. Mayor Thomas informed Mr. Glasser he ran out of time and asked him if he would be able to conclude during the second section of Citizen Comments. Mr. Glasser informed him he would. 5. CITY COUNCIL REPORTS Councilwoman Rhodes commended the Police Department for their handling of the bank robbery. The robbers never got a chance to rob the bank. She got it on good authority Page 2 of 38 Council Regular Meeting August 13,2007 that our Police Department did an excellent job. She commended them for their willingness to step in and take preventative action. Councilwoman Lichter had nothing at this time. Councilwoman Rogers had nothing at this time. Councilman Vincenzi had nothing at this time. 6. CONSENT AGENDA A. Law Enforcement - Manatee Conservation Grant - approve application for $5,703.16 in grant funds which may be used for on-the-water law enforcement efforts. Examples of appropriate usage of funds are for overtime salaries for on- the-water law enforcement officers, boats, GPS units, fuel for boats, laser radar guns, and tough notebook type computers for tracking citations, etc. Police Chief Taves made a presentation regarding the Manatee Conservation Grant, which can be used for on-the- water law enforcement efforts. He commented on efforts that are being made to educate the public. Councilwoman Lichter asked if they are still just doing half of the river or if they can do both sides. Police Chief Taves informed her they are in agreement with Volusia County in the waterways. They can go where needed but they stay right to Edgewater and basically half of the river. If there is an emergency in the backwaters they will respond. As far as their enforcement purposes, it is just the Edgewater jurisdiction. Councilwoman Lichter stated but even if it is just Edgewater, they can't do both sides of the river. It is very restrictive. Police Chief Taves informed her they enforce it. They can enforce it. They haven't been out there enough times on regular patrol to get into it but these moneys will help them. Mayor Thomas asked if they are going to have one officer and if he would be marine trained and if they are going to allow this for any officer to go out there. He would be in favor of this if they limit it to one person that is Page 3 of 38 Council Regular Meeting August 13,2007 properly trained. Police Chief Taves informed him we currently have about five officers that have been trained through the Coast Guard on the use of the boat and marine trained and they have gone to classes with the Sheriff's Department and Fish & wildlife on issuing citations. Mayor Thomas asked about responding to complaints in the backwaters. What if they go out of our jurisdiction. Are we going to be sworn in by the Sheriff's Department. Police Chief Taves informed him they already have that agreement to respond to emergencies with the Sheriff's Department and the Coast Guard. Councilwoman Lichter asked if they pay matching funds on this or if this money was given to us. Police Chief Taves informed her this is given to them. With the way the numbers come out, he is going to have to come up with $11 and change. Councilwoman Lichter asked if they send one person out or two. Police Chief Taves informed her two. With the way they have been doing it now it has been one law enforcement officer and one paramedic from the Fire Department so they can respond to any type of emergency. Councilwoman Rhodes moved to approve the Consent Agenda, second by Councilwoman Lichter. The MOTION CARRIED 5 - 0 . 7. PUBLIC HEARINGS, ORDINANCES AND RESOLUTIONS A. 2nd Reading, Ord. No. 2007-0-05, Sid Peterson requesting an amendment to the Comprehensive Future Land Use Map to include 79.18I acres of land located south of the Taylor Road and Glencoe Road intersection as Low Density Residential with Conservation Overlay (lg. scale compo plan amendment) (1st reading 4/16/07, Item 7C) cont. from 7/30/07 City Manager Williams explained Item A, B, C and Dare being continued until August 20, 2007 as a result of a pending response from the Department of Community Affairs. City Attorney Ansay read Ord. 2007-0-05 into the record. Page 4 of 38 Council Regular Meeting August 13, 2007 Councilwoman Lichter moved to continue Ord. 2007-0-05 until the August 20th meeting, second by Councilwoman Rhodes. The MOTION CARRIED 5 - 0 . B. 2nd Reading, Ord. No. 2007-0-06, Sid Peterson requesting an amendment to the Official Zoning Map to include 79.181 acres of land located south of the Taylor Road and Glencoe Road intersection as RPUD (Residential Planned Unit Development) and approval of associated RPUD Agreement for villas at the Lakes (rezoning) (1st Reading 4/16/07, Item 7D) cont. from 7/30/07 City Attorney Ansay read Ord. 2007-0-06 into the record. Councilwoman Lichter moved to continue Ord. 2007-0-06 until the August 20th meeting, second by Councilwoman Rhodes. The MOTION CARRIED 5 - 0 . C. 2nd Reading, Ord. No. 2007-0-07, Glenn Storch requesting an amendment to the Comprehensive plan Future Land Use Map to include 20.281 acres of land located south of Two Oaks Drive and north of 27th Street as Low Density Residential with Conservation Overlay (lg. scale compo plan amendment) (1st reading 4/16/07, Item 7E) cont. from 7/30/07 City Attorney Ansay read Ord. 2007-0-07 into the record. Councilwoman Rhodes moved to continue Ord. 2007-0-07 until the August 20th meeting, second by Councilwoman Lichter. The MOTION CARRIED 5 - 0 . D. 2nd Reading, Ord. No. 2007-0-08, Glenn Storch requesting an amendment to the Official Zoning Map to include 20.281 acres of land located south of Two Oaks Drive and north of 27th Street as R-3 (Single-Family Residential) (1st reading 4/16/07, Item 7F) cont. from 7/30/07 City Attorney Ansay read Ord. 2007-0-08 into the record. Page 5 of 38 Council Regular Meeting August 13,2007 councilwoman Rogers moved to continue Ord. 2007-0-08 until the August 20th meeting, second by Councilman Vincenzi. The MOTION CARRIED 5 - 0 . Councilwoman Rhodes suggested the Council keep these agenda items for next week so they don't get duplicate copies of them and kill more trees. Councilwoman Rogers stated she gives them back and then she gives them back in the notebook. E. 1st Reading, Ord. No. 2007-0-14, proposing an Amendment to the Charter of the City of Edgewater providing for exceptions to the prohibition against new building heights in excess of 35 feet City Attorney Ansay read Ord. 2007-0-14 into the record. City Manager Williams made a staff presentation. Councilwoman Lichter feels this is a very necessary amendment and proposal. She thinks they are going to be hindered and sued but basically hindered in terms of schools, hospitals, businesses, etc. She feels it still keeps the flavor or the feeling of what the group wanted in terms of residential. She sees absolutely nothing wrong with it. She hopes they can word it in a proper manner so the citizenry understands it. Councilwoman Rogers stated the last time they came up with an exception to the 35-foot height amendment, she didn't approve of it because the wording was ambiguous and it didn't pass. She thinks this wording is better but could be improved a little bit more so. They are wanting something to pass and to allow commercial, public, semi- public and industrial to exceed 35 feet. When you get into retail stores, that concerns her. She feels someone might later on down the road try to create a second floor apartment, which would then become a residential dwelling. At this time it doesn't look like this could happen but further on down the road it could. She spoke with City Manager Williams this morning to see if they could break this down to have one question to specify each zoning classification that would be exempt. She asked City Attorney Ansay if she could do that or if this could be worded in such a way that it is so clear that no attorney could come in and misconstrue this so that a retail Page 6 of 38 Council Regular Meeting August 13, 2007 business could have some kind of residential dwelling above it. That is what they clearly do not want to happen. Mayor Thomas stated they would need a consensus from Council before they ask the City Attorney to do that. He asked City Attorney Ansay if it would be possible if they had Council consensus to do that. City Attorney Ansay informed him they could break it down. She thought the way it is worded now in one measure was intended to try and be all encompassing so it didn't get to be too much. If they wanted to have it broke down into multiple measures as alternates that could be done as well. It wouldn't change the legality of the language as it is drafted now whether it is in one single measure or multiple measures. Councilwoman Rogers stated the last time they lumped it together and it didn't pass. They are wanting to definitely make sure commercial and industrial etc can come in here rather than having to come back to the drawing board. She feels it is going to be a little bit confusing. Not as bad as last time but she is wanting to erase the ambiguity. City Attorney Ansay felt from a strategical standpoint there is merit to breaking it down that Council can determine. From a legal standpoint either way it would work. Councilwoman Rhodes stated that doesn't solve the issue of a retail store due to it being commercial. If you say yes to commercial, you say yes to retail stores and that doesn't stop the apartment on top of the store. She doesn't envision that but she guessed it was possible. Councilwoman Rogers stated it is because last time they were talking about this that is exactly what was in the wording. City Manager Williams felt what they may be referring to would fall into a more appropriate zoning classification of mixed use. They originally proposed the amendment last time with the language of mixed use and it was determined at that point in time that it was ambiguous due to the mixed use classifications that would allow properties to exist under that classification. They went back and modified the language to the extent to exclude mixed use so it would become somewhat more clear to the residents in voting. He reminded Council that this language was drafted in Page 7 of 38 Council Regular Meeting August 13, 2007 conjunction with the survey that was conducted just recently as well. Councilwoman Rogers stated didn't pass and they don't a year trying to do this. extra steps to get it done her concern is last time it want to be sitting here again in They may just have to take a few right this time. Councilwoman Rhodes felt if they broke it down then they needed to give an example of what each use is. She didn't know if this gets cumbersome. City Manager Williams felt they have attempted to do that with the language in the ballot question that stipulates including but not limited to retail stores, fire and police stations, hospitals and manufacturing facilities. Councilwoman Rhodes suggested they include schools too. City Manager Williams stated they have limitations on the number of words contained in ballot language and what requirements are necessary in ballot language to remove any interpretations of confusion or misleading language as well. City Attorney Ansay stated persuasion is often an issue that gets local governments with these measures as well. If the language is overly persuasive it can be shot down as well. There is a fine line there that they walk in making sure it doesn't become persuasive. She feels as a policy matter it is up to the Council if they want to break it down into different measures. She commented on having a certain number of words for each measure. If they break it down they will have more words to devote to each ballot measure. They could be more descriptive if they had one that applied to each zoning use. She also mentioned having voter fatigue. She feels there often is a desire to get them into one because folks sometimes get flustered if they have to go through a number of ballot measures at one time that are cumbersome to read through. Councilman Vincenzi asked what the deadline was for this to decide to get it on the ballot. City Clerk wadsworth informed him it had to be to the Elections Department by September 7th. City Attorney Ansay informed him it would be today and next week for second reading. They only have two meetings between now and that date. Page 8 of38 Council Regular Meeting August 13,2007 Councilman Vincenzi didn't have any objection to talking about it. He honestly doesn't see how they can predict or enumerate every possible problem that might come up. If you get too specific and you have five or six or seven things for people to vote on they get voter shock and start checking all yes or no or they think they are trying to pull something over on them. He had no problem discussing it more and trying to reach a consensus on it. He feels this is fairly clear. He further commented on residential over commercial and seeing it in New Smyrna on Flagler Avenue and in Orlando. He feels that is a potential problem and he has no problem discussing it more but they need to reach a decision. Councilwoman Rhodes stated maybe that needs to be addressed in it, the residential over commercial. She thinks it does get too cumbersome. Voters aren't stupid. She doesn't think they need to break it down that much for them. Mayor Thomas opened the public hearing. The following citizens spoke: Dave Ross, 2803 Needle Palm Drive, stated in addition to the wording the last time he thought there were two or three reasons why it did not pass. He thought the primary reason and he knows several people told him and still to this day a lot of people believe that condominiums fall under commercial zoning. They don't have copies of the LDC. They assume condominiums are commercially zoned. Last time the major war was about condos. He feels they have to make it abundantly clear to the voters, and he wasn't saying it needed to be worded in the amendment, that condominiums are not included in commercial. They are residential and will not be exempted from the 35-foot height. Mr. Ross stated the News Journal made a grave mistake last time. He personally spoke with the editor and the only excuse he could come up with was they felt that he was told by his editorial board that there were legal problems with the wording and they were afraid the City would get sued. He feels they were afraid to admit they made a mistake in recommending that it not be voted. He hopes this time the News Journal will correct. The third problem was it was in conjunction with the other amendment, which mudded the water. The people that voted yes for it were totally Page 9 of38 Council Regular Meeting August 13,2007 afraid that if they voted yes for it, it would negate what they were voting for on the others. The water is much clearer this time. Just be sure they understand condominiums are not exempted and he felt they would get it to pass. Councilwoman Rhodes informed him it is in the wording of the amendment that condominiums and hotels are residential. Mike Visconti, 316 Pine Breeze Drive, stated he believes they have learned a lesson since that amendment took place. He has said many times that the 35-foot height has hurt Edgewater. We have pending lawsuits, developers not building in our industrial parks or commercial areas. He feels the reason this all began was because of the 90-foot high condos going along the river. If they had compromised, instead of 90 feet come down to 50 feet, don't exceed 50 feet. Going up 50 feet was preserved anywhere from 50% to 70% of the greens. He believes this amendment should be rectified and made clear where in the height a condominium and make them a special case. Let Planning & Zoning and the City Manager figure out and think of where the condos should go and how high the condos should be. Not to exceed 50 feet. If you limit them to 35 feet you aren't going to get the. He asked why they don't entice people like Kohls. Kohls is trying to come into Florida. Kohl's is a beautiful department store. They don't have a Kohl's close by. They travel out of the City to go shopping. Why can't we have it right here in Edgewater. Instead of being against all this he feels they should go forward and let Edgewater reap what comes in to Edgewater by revising the Charter. Dot Carlson, 1714 Edgewater Drive, representing ECARD, stated if they can put this horse in the barn and keep it there she felt they would all be happy. She spoke of Mr. Ross mentioning condos. She has no problem with hotels being included under the 35-foot height limit too. She is glad but questioned if a hotel is considered commercial. She asked if that would muddy the water on the language. She asked if hotels were considered commercial. City Manager Williams stated you look at the specific area that it falls within, out towards 1-95 would certainly fall into a business commercial. In a residential setting, you would probably have some neighborhood districts you would have to address these types of exceptions. From their Page 10 of38 Council Regular Meeting August 13,2007 perspective, they would not allow hotels within a residential setting. Ms. Carlson asked about office buildings and how close they are going to be to residential areas and if they were going to have a limit on where they go. City Manager Williams stated they are going to fall within the commercial business. Ms. Carlson feels even if they put them along u.s. #1 it is going to impact residential areas. City Manager Williams stated they would not be permitted in a residential area. Ms. Carlson asked him if he was talking about out by the interstate. She knows Restoration is going to want some tall buildings. City Manager Williams stated they would put them in the proper zoning classifications as they fit. Business commercial is where they would place those types of facilities. Ms. Carlson informed the gallery that ECARD has gotten their numbers for their petitions. They do have enough numbers to get it on the ballot for the 1-95 density. She hopes they can get that done as soon as possible. Carol Ann Stoughton, 2740 Evergreen Drive, stated for the audience, they have not had a Target or Lowe's or anything of its type. We will not get it in the next ten years because she hears a yard time is given to these corporations that want to come in. The gentleman that owns the Motorcycle Freight business says he was approached and the City fought it. Those buildings are not over 35 feet. The petition, the height amendment has nothing to do with these companies coming in here. Our City and every city is in a state of budgetary crisis. People are moving out of Florida more than they are moving in. Coral Trace has 35 homes that the people have skipped town because they can't pay their mortgages or insurance. Before they think of constantly putting more homes in here she feels they need to encourage as others have said to bring in businesses. She asked why they don't have some type of a committee that tries to get people to build in our City. Give them free taxes for four or five years. Bring those companies in for people to work that are here now. As far as she is concerned this development that Mr. Peterson wants to bring in, that should have been annexed into New Smyrna. She feels it is time they think about soliciting corporations, places for people to work. She feels that is where they should put their goals this coming year. Page 11 of 38 Council Regular Meeting August 13,2007 Councilwoman Rhodes informed her we have an Economic Development Board that does solicit businesses. Jim Sylvester, 2209 Orange Tree Drive, stated in Sunday's paper he read an article and a Mr. Rick Michael, a County Economic Development Director, stated that there are tons of companies that want to move into Volusia County and they can not find any land that is zoned for industrial use. He asked if the Economic Development Board has any contact with Mr. Michael. If they do, why are none of these companies coming to Edgewater? Councilwoman Rhodes stated they have a whole industrial park that is zoned for industrial use. Councilwoman Lichter stated the industrial park was put in there for that purpose. Sometimes you put out money to make money. The Economic Development Board has done all these things that Councilwoman Rhodes has mentioned. Companies come and big places come when they see that there is the population that can support what they are doing. You can't push down proper growth that won't hurt the City and think they are going to get industry, economic development and all to come in. One thing leads another. She commented on when Beall's second hand department store came in. They jumped for joy. The 35-foot height limit is absolutely harmful and that is what they are discussing right now of what they can do about that. She had a vision and so did Economic Development of this being a boating community, with all kinds of things in the industrial park relating to boating. For the first time, New Smyrna was thinking wow they got something going. You take City money to make money. A person here that was damning our industrial park has just said give away this, give away this to entice people here. That is what they were trying to do by putting in a road and a little fill dirt. We have a very good Economic Development Board but they get pushed down every time. Councilwoman Rogers asked Mr. Sylvester to give them a copy of the newspaper article and she will contact Mr. Lott and ask Mr. Lott to follow up. Gigi Bennington, 121 Virginia Street, stated she has a copy of all the answers to the survey that was done. According to the survey, there are 58% of the people that are in favor of the exception. She agreed with Mr. Ross that in order to get this to pass the Council has to be very proactive in making people understand. She proposed a Page 12 of38 Council Regular Meeting August 13, 2007 slight change to the way it is worded. This is based on attending the Planning & Zoning Board meetings and the survey. People seem to be concerned about the river and the view and the coast. She proposed the ballot question should read "The Current Edgewater Charter does not allow any new buildings over 35 feet in height. Should the exceptions be amended to allow exceptions west of u.S. #1 for business commercial public semi public or industrial buildings included but not limited to retail stores, fire and police stations, hospitals and manufacturing facilities. All you are adding is west of u.S. #1 and delete the 35-foot restriction on residential buildings such as condominium and hotels because the zoning won't allow it east of u.S. #1. She proposed if they define the area because of the public concern and the results of the survey, they are liable to get a better response. They really do need to really educate the public on this. She suggested they condense it to west of u.S. #1 and then the zoning and the Comp Plan would take care of all of the other restrictions. They are taking away the concern of developing east on the river and blocking the coast and endangering the coastlines. Councilwoman Lichter felt they needed to be more specific because west of u.S. #1, when you say that means the west side over of u.S. #1. They have businesses on u.S. #1 on the east side. That has to be explained much better. Ms. Bennington stated they are drawing a line that people understand. No buildings over 35 feet are going on the east side but on the west side they are allowing these buildings they have outlined. Councilwoman Rhodes thought what Councilwoman Lichter was saying was that people may misconstrue it to mean that just the west side of u.S. #1 gets the tall buildings. Along the u.S. #1 corridor. Ms. Bennington suggested maybe they needed to emphasize clearer west of u.S. #1. Councilwoman Rhodes liked her idea. Ms. Bennington stated at least it takes away the worry about the coastline and the east side. Perd Heeb, 115 N. Riverside Drive, asked if they have the wording. He asked if they could put it on the screen. Mr. Heeb stated he wanted to make one point because a lot of stuff has been talking about Economic Development and to tell you that a business or industry looking to relocate does its homework and when they look at Edgewater one of Page 13 of38 Council Regular Meeting August 13,2007 the criteria they are going to look at is how restrictive is this community. If I want to build this building am I going to have a problem? The point of the matter is am I going to have to jump through hoops to get anything done in this community. He felt this community has sent a message to everybody in the world that we are a restrictive community. We don't want growth. We don't want economic development and you are not welcome. The only way they are going to get rid of that is for Council to campaign to fix this problem. Bill Glasser, 1703 Needle Palm Drive, stated if anybody ever writes an ordinance or amendment to the Constitution or Charter that a lawyer can't screw up or a court can't overturn, let him know because he wants to start looking for the start in the east and the second coming of Christ will be here shortly. He feels part of the problem that people see that are against some of the things that go on defined as smart growth or whatever you want to call it, the problem being that we have a Comprehensive Plan that was pretty comprehensive but developers come in here and write our Comprehensive Plan to do whatever it is that they want to do. You rezone property to make it whatever the developer wants. He went on to present examples of this. If Council is going to permit all kinds of businesses or manufacturing or whatever to come in here, they ought to control where it goes very carefully. The guy that always gets screwed in this is Joe the taxpayer because nobody really cares about Joe the taxpayer. Jack Hayman, 3003 Travelers Palm Drive, Volusia County Councilman, agreed with Councilwoman Rogers and Councilman Vincenzi wholeheartedly on their perspective of what is going on here today. He agreed with most of what he has heard from the citizens who have preceded him to the microphone. The issue is the economy of Volusia County. The issue of the City of Edgewater's issue is the same only in worse greater magnitude than that of the County. A gentleman earlier talked about economic development and Mr. Michaels has been very active as well as the Economic Development Board. He commented on Edgewater Marine staying in Edgewater now because the Economic Development Board and Mr. Michaels and the owners of some private properties and the company itself have been able to get together and work out some amicable solutions. The staff has played an important role as well as the Council to make this successful through their willingness to participate Page 14 of38 Council Regular Meeting August 13, 2007 and invest in the companies so they can go and grow tomorrow. That company is one of the highest paying companies in the whole County. If they are going to have economic development and this is what the Volusia County Council is working on and this is what most of the cities are wrestling with now. He isn't going to argue the 35- foot height limit but he will argue and will suggest is that the term mixed use. Mixed use is not what he heard and what he saw and the interpretation of what would be allowed. He feels this is something that warrants a little more thought and discussion. They need to define what mixed use is and under what mix goes with what and what use goes with what mix. He commented on having some apprehension about the condos along the river. He spoke about not being able to see the river anymore once he gets to Port Orange due to construction. If they are going to be a community at the edge of the water, he suggested they look at preserving and protecting the edge of the water for future generations. Mr. Hayman stated economic development is the name of the game and in order to achieve it they have to have infrastructure. They need to preserve the infrastructure and more importantly the capacity the City has today. The County is going to work with the City on that. They are the City's partner now for water and sewer and they intend to be good partners but they have to have the needs for the future. He hears people suggesting an east side/west side city. You can't have two cities. You can't have two masters. If you create a city that is a new town and you maintain what you have in the old town, the new town is going to support the old town because the old town's property values and the returns on the investments of the investors in that area will gradually and slowly recede to the point where you are going to be taxing who and the property values where. You will lose your ad valorem on the old part of the community. You will lose your General Fund money because you won't have the revenues to support the rejuvenation and revitalization of the infrastructure. This is what Edgewater needs. Edgewater has an aging infrastructure and has to replace an aging infrastructure. It is going to take a partnership to do this. It is going to take the partnership of Edgewater, Volusia County working with Edgewater, the business and commercial entities and the private citizens. Page 15 of38 Council Regular Meeting August 13,2007 Mayor Thomas asked Mr. Hayman how much longer his presentation was going to be. Mr. Hayman informed him as long as it takes. Mayor Thomas informed him his time was up. Mr. Hayman informed him he would summarize now and thanked him for his indulgence. Mr. Hayman stated the only thing they didn/t address was they need to finalize what they mean by mixed use. If they even have a 35-foot height limit and they are looking for exceptions I they have to define the exceptions I which they have done very well. They have created independent nodules and independent areas that do nothing but one independent thing. That isn/t what they want. They want to be able to mix and match. He feels there is nothing wrong with having retail and above that having some place for people to live. Affordable and work force housing is made for that. Mr. Hayman stated the ballot that they should be looking at and the verbiage they should be talking about is going to be crystal clear in the next few weeks because they are going to see his colleagues and himself with an initiative on how should they grow and what is green building and what are they going to do to create the sustainable communities that the legislature says they must have. Right now Edgewater is not a sustainable community. They do not meet the test. Not many cities do. The test simply is what are your infrastructural assets and liabilities and what is your concurrency. He feels the Council should delay this decision until they can decide what is mixed use and decide how they are going to put these different uses together in a matrix that makes up a town. Pat Card I 3019 Willow Oak Drivel stated he strongly supports the relief the Council was searching for from the current all encompassing 35-foot height limit. He hopes they will consider mixed use. That is certainly not a new concept but in an environment where real estate costs are high and our natural environment is so valuable it/s a natural. He commented on the mom and pop stores that had storage and living quarters above their stores. He remembered there being a lot in the little towns he lived in. Another advantage is you begin to develop neighborhoods again. To have this you have to encourage it. One of the problems they face is finding a place that young people can afford to live while they are establishing themselves. That some people refer to as work force housing. Mixed-use structures lend themselves to smaller Page 16 of38 Council Regular Meeting August 13,2007 and less expensive housing. If they don't think that affordable housing for people who provide your service is important, think of what it takes to buy or rent a 1,600 square foot home today. They must compensate people well enough to purchase or rent those homes or offer them less expensive housing. He then commented on the foreclosures and the people who are over extended on their credit. It is just a matter of time or changes in the economy that drive them into a financial failure. He lives on a fixed income like most retirees in this community. They must address this problem and mixed-use development is an alternative, imaginative approach. He then commented on the u.s. #1 corridor from Turgot to the Gabordy Canal needing to be revitalized. He feels mixed use is the right thing to do but it may not be the winning thing to do. It very well may be the killer. He didn't now what the Council would do but it is their decision to make. They elected them as their representatives and they can't hide behind the phrase the people made them do it. He hates when a vocal minority that is willing to say anything to get their way holds a city hostage. That is a democracy when the electorate is uninformed. He hoped they voted their consciences this evening. Agnes Witter, 223 Flagler Avenue, stated she also favors supporting a second look at mixed use. A couple of years ago while she was on the Internet reading the Chicago Tribune, a Home Depot owned a shopping center that was in an area of town that was going down hill and they decided to revitalize that shopping center. They added two more stories on top of their building all around the shopping center. She further commented on what was included in the shopping center. It really worked out nice and it kept all the citizens in one area. With the future of energy going to cost more, they should be looking at providing things like this in our City that people will not only be able to afford to buy or rent but be able to walk for the amenities they want to attend to and to save on the cost of a gallon of gas. Mayor Thomas closed the public hearing. Councilwoman Lichter stated when Councilwoman Rogers mentioned how explicit they should be about eliminating mixed use and what it meant, all she could think of is the many cities she has seen in Europe where there are art galleries on the top and a loft up above. As Ms. Witter Page 17 of38 Council Regular Meeting August 13, 2007 just said, she has just seen so many mom and pop businesses with people living upstairs. She doesn't see the evil of it. She feels what the public was against were the condos on the river. She thinks they practically say that by saying the 35-foot height restriction shall apply to residential buildings such as condos and hotels. She doesn't want to add the word mixed use. She feels some day they may have this whole square be what it should be, the center of town. She commented on New Smyrna having a historic, old, center of town. She dreams of City Hall being here and it may be a little higher or it may go across the street and be very special because the name of the City is Edgewater. She doesn't think they should eliminate the word mixed use because she thinks there may be a development or something where it is appropriate. The more complicated they make this the harder it is going to be to understand and sell. She feels it is almost pretty good the way it is now. Councilwoman Rhodes stated they could approve this, change the wording and approve this on second reading. They aren't held to tonight coming up with wording. She was confused. She never heard Councilman Vincenzi and Councilwoman Rogers ask that mixed use be put in the language. Mixed use is not in the language. Councilman Vincenzi stated he never said mixed use but that is what they are talking about. Councilwoman Rogers stated what she was saying is the way it is worded somebody could get away with a mixed use. If that is the intent and she doesn't believe that is the intent of why that was drafted. Councilwoman Rhodes asked Councilman Vincenzi if he wanted mixed use added. Councilman Vincenzi feels they should consider it. It's not a bad idea but he also thinks the main objective is to get past the 35-foot height limit. If they start throwing terms that people don't understand, it will get rejected again. He feels that may be something to be considered in the future. He thinks it is not a bad thing. He has seen a lot of developments and retail uses that have mixed uses that are good. He referred to Flagler Avenue in New Smyrna. He isn't interested in that right now but if he was 25 and that is what he could afford that would be great. He feels they have to think of all walks of life. Page 18 of38 Council Regular Meeting August 13,2007 Councilwoman Rogers doesn't feel it will pass the way it is. That is why she was saying to break it down. Councilman Vincenzi feels the main thing now is to keep it simple. Councilwoman Rhodes doesn't think they can accommodate every scenario and ensure voters vote for this. This language in her opinion is clear. City Manager Williams feels a lot of what they have in before them in terms of proposed language is based off of our past experience. They over the last year have had a number of debates to the extent that this 35-foot height amendment as limited the City's ability to grow. They have talked about the problems it presents from a public/semi- public perspective to the extent that if they brought forward an initiative to build a City Hall, they could not exceed 35 feet. If they brought forward an initiative to expand the library at its current location, they could not exceed the 35 feet. From that perspective he thinks they have tried to do some education on the effects it has on these specific zoning classifications. He agreed mixed use has great benefits and it is certainly something the city has to look at but they have touched on that. He feels it involves a great deal more of education on their behalf of the citizens to understand what mixed use really is and what it really represents. There is nothing that prohibits the Council to bring back that initiative next year in and of itself that says shall the Charter be exempted to allow mixed-use development to exceed 35 foot. Councilwoman Lichter asked about schools. City Manager Williams informed her they could add the language of schools as well. City Attorney Ansay stated one of the reasons why they didn't include schools is because schools aren't subject to the height limitation anyway. They are governed by the Statewide building code. They don't want to throw schools out there and be accused of being overly persuasive and pulling at people's heartstrings when it arguably doesn't apply to schools anyway. Councilwoman Lichter made a motion to accept Ord. 2007-0-14 as written and put it on the ballot as quick as they can, second by Councilman Vincenzi. Page 19 of38 Council Regular Meeting August 13,2007 The MOTION CARRIED 4-1. Councilwoman Roqers voted NO. There was a ten-minute recess at this time. The meeting recessed at 8:20 and reconvened at 8:30. F. Resolution 2007-R-09, Supporting DBCC in its application for a Bachelor of Science degree in Education City Attorney Ansay read Res. 2007-R-09 into the record. City Manager Williams made a staff presentation. Councilman Vincenzi asked if they need the City's approval for this. City Manager Williams stated he didn't necessarily know that they needed the City's approval but they want the City's support. Councilwoman Lichter stated it is probably one of the best things that have come in front of them. She thinks sometimes they are hiring in this State and it is one of the problems with education that they are hiring people that go to general four-year colleges and are good in a particular subject. What they don't get when they get this type of education is how children learn and how do you motivate children. She feels this is going to improve education in this State. She has been saying they need teachers colleges. Mayor Thomas entertained a motion. Councilwoman Rhodes moved to approve Res. 2007-R-09, Supporting DBCC in its application for a Bachelor of Science degree in Education, second by Councilwoman Lichter. The MOTION CARRIED 5 - 0 . G. Resolution 2007-R-10, Approving a $1,500,000.00 Line of Credit with Bank of America and authorizing execution of associated documents City Attorney Ansay read Res. 2007-R-10 into the record. Finance Director Brett Tanner made a staff presentation. He went over two changes to the resolution. Page 20 of 38 Council Regular Meeting August 13, 2007 Councilwoman Lichter asked who has the authority to go out and borrow the money or take the money out of there. Finance Director Tanner informed her the Mayor would have to sign the agreement with Bank of America and the City Clerk. City Manager Williams explained the amount of cash reserves that we physically have on hand are at a level they have found to be uncomfortable. This buys us some insurance as they have talked about in the event of a natural disaster so they can respond accordingly to that. They would bring back any request to draw down these funds for Council's approval just to provide an additional layer of security at the Council's request. Councilwoman Lichter stated when they voted the first time on the millage rate, they were saying something that they think they can live within this budget. She is having that kind of trouble of under what circumstances they would be pulling it out and who has the authority to pull it out. City Manager Williams explained their intention is to have a pool of money available to us in the event they have another situation like in 2004 where the City was impacted with hurricanes where they had a significant draw on our cash reserves. This would allow them the opportunity to reach in there and grab those funds so they can continue to provide those services that are essential during a recovery effort of that nature. Councilwoman Lichter stated she would pass but she is a little unhappy. Councilman Vincenzi asked who is responsible for making the decision to draw money if needed. City Manager Williams felt that would boil down to him. He would be in consultation with the Mayor and they would probably call for a special meeting in the event that they have to pull down these resources. As they have pointed out on numerous occasions there was a total of about $1.1 million citywide that they had the ability to lay their hands on and of that money $900,000 was in the General Fund and there was $200,000 in the Refuse Fund. They clearly pointed out to Council that there was about 19 days of reserve funds available in the event of a major catastrophe. As they would do in any emergency situation, they would reach out to the Council for the approval but there may be a time when they have to pull down those funds and then bring it back for Council's approval. Page 21 of38 Council Regular Meeting August 13, 2007 Councilman Vincenzi asked under what circumstances would he be allowed to draw on that money. By giving City Manager Williams the ability to borrow $1.5 million at the drop at the hat, he isn't saying he would for any type of frivolous circumstances but maybe some extra security needs to be in place. Mayor Thomas stated he does not like to borrow money because he knows you have to pay that money back with interest. He then told a story about a $2.5 million check he had in his possession that was to go to the City and he made Ms. Matusick wait at City Hall until he got there with the check. He doesn't like to deal with big sums of money so the public can feel comfortable that City Manager Williams will not borrow it unless it is extremely necessary. Councilman vincenzi stated he believes City Manager Williams won't borrow it without a very good reason and Mayor Thomas won't borrow it without a very good reason but what if he doesn't run in two years or doesn't get elected and they get somebody else up there that doesn't feel the same. City Manager Williams assured him the Council would authorize the use of those funds. They could come forward and say they won't spend any money responding to these disasters before Council approves it or they could have the trust in him that he is going to bring it back to Council that is the auspices with which they would operate under. Councilman Vincenzi stated it wasn't that he didn't trust City Manager Williams. He just feels they have a responsibility to the taxpayers to be a little more fiscally responsible. City Manager Williams feels they are limited by some of the decisions that the Council is making and that is why they have brought forward this proposal to buy the insurance. He thinks that is something they have been harping on over the last year with the importance of building the cash reserves and putting more money back into the budget process to allow that to happen. They are working towards that very diligently. They are also hampered by a number of different budgetary restraints as they go forward. Mayor Thomas commented on seeing the need for the City Manager and the Mayor. Page 22 of 38 Council Regular Meeting August 13,2007 City Manager Williams commented on the purchasing policy that is in place that limits his ability up to $15,000. Councilwoman Lichter stated the Mayor in this form of government has two functions, to run a meeting properly and also to represent the City Council in ceremonial type of occasions. That is his written function with a soft type of Mayor. Consequently she believes that by cell phone, when this kind of emergency is coming, she thinks it should require contact with the City Council and that should be tried before he has the authority to borrow money or anybody else serving as City Manager. City Manager Williams stated it would be. It is consistent with the purchasing policy he has just identified. They are all governed by the purchasing policy that is in place that limits each one of their abilities to a certain threshold to spend money. Councilwoman Lichter feels the legislative body should have a vote in that situation. Councilwoman Rogers stated things happen. They have another $1.5 million debt. She asked what it equates to millage wise, about .75 mills to one whole millage point. She asked if they have ever had a line of credit like this in the City. City Manager Williams informed her no, he didn't think they ever had the current level of cash reserves that they have had that they have brought forward to Council in several different formats over this last year expressing the concerns they had. Councilwoman Rogers stated here they are in the midst of a budgeting process. City Manager Williams has already let them know the condition they are in with the pensions again. She has a concern with this amount of money and putting them out there for more debt. She feels City Manager Williams would be very good at managing it but he has a problem with this amount of money and they have a reserve requirement in this City in the Charter. Mr. Tanner informed her this is under the Charter. The Charter is $1.7 million. He explained there are many other cities that do this every year. Councilwoman Rhodes stated that doesn't make it right. Mr. Tanner stated last year in October and November they became very low on cash. To the point it was unacceptable. Page 23 of38 Council Regular Meeting August 13, 2007 Councilwoman Rogers commented on when you borrow you pay interest. They just got done establishing a minimum millage. Was the interest for this figured in there? She didn't think so. Mr. Tanner informed her it was not. Councilwoman Rogers stated she would have thought it would have been wiser for them to approve this before they set the millage. Mr. Tanner commented on having to make payroll and pay the bills and they got close last year not to be able to do that. Councilwoman Lichter stated they aren't saying they can't borrow it. She is saying the means of them borrowing it without checking with the City Council should be implemented. City Attorney Ansay pointed out in the resolution that it does require Council approval. She also commented on the purchasing policies that are in place. Councilwoman Lichter stated she wasn't getting that answer from the two gentleman in charge of finances and apologized for missing that. Councilwoman Lichter asked who the bond counsel is. City Attorney Ansay informed her the bond counsel is the counsel for the lender. Most of the cities do this in terms of a hurricane. She commented on FEMA moneys and having to put the money out initially and being reimbursed back from FEMA. She also commented on if there are issues relating to emergency expenditures and being able to call a special meeting in 24 hours to authorize something if it hadn't previously been authorized. Councilwoman Rhodes asked why they wouldn't wait until they needed the money to do this. City Manager Williams commented on coming so close last year to not meeting payroll that they had to put something in place to allow them the ability to do that. They have talked about the cash reserves and what they have on hand. He spoke of having an obligation to respond in the case of a disaster. Councilwoman Rhodes asked about being able to do this quickly if they needed to. City Attorney Ansay felt they could probably do it in a few weeks but with a line of credit like this with a government agency they aren't Page 24 of 38 Council Regular Meeting August 13, 2007 pledging their ad valorem revenues it requires the document before them. This has been a three-month process. Councilwoman Rhodes stated she objects to paying for the money while the money sits there and they don/t use it. Mayor Thomas asked how much it is going to cost. Mr. Tanner informed him $31000 a year if they don/t use any of it. City Manager Williams felt they could take a harder stance towards their budget that they are getting ready to go forward and try to do a number of additional cost reductions above and beyond what they have proposed to guarantee they are going to have excess funds in the budget. The consequences of that Council has expressed to him on numerous occasions they don/t want to take and do. Councilwoman Rhodes stated in the event of a natural disasterl they said this has to go because they aren/t pledging our ad valorem taxes. She asked if they could go to the bank and get a loan and pledge our ad valorem taxes at that point in time. City Manager Williams explained with the bank they are approaching right now that has taken two to three months to get in place. Councilwoman Rhodes stated she doesn/t like this and there has to be another way to do this that doesn/t cost them money for nothing. She pointed out they may never use this money. City Manager Williams stated they could certainly go back into the General Fund budget and he thinks the consequences. Councilwoman Rhodes stated she is saying other than the General Fund budget. City Manager Williams informed her citywide he thinks is the problem. This problem was not created overnight to put us in that position. All they are asking for is a little bit of insurance to allow them the opportunity to respond in the event. They aren/t going to pull money down without Council/s approval. Councilwoman Rhodes stated they may never use any money. City Manager Williams stated and that is the cost of. Councilwoman Rhodes stated it is going to be the cost of insuring that. She asked if they could go to an insurance company. City Manager Williams was sure there would be some costs associated with that also. Mayor Thomas stated it would be luxurious if they were self-insured. Just like the insurance policy on your Page 25 of 38 Council Regular Meeting August 13,2007 house, you are paying that. You aren't going to get it back but you know if there is damage your costs are going to be covered. Mayor Thomas stated he didn't like it and didn't like the cost but he felt it was a need that this City needs in this time. Councilwoman Rhodes feels it is a cushion they need. She just objected to paying for it. City Manager Williams stated thy have presented this budget to Council that would provide about a half a million dollars they hope with some modifications to a retirement plan. They can go back consistent with what the limitations are on the cash reserves in the Charter and focus on a $1.5 million make up in one year. He didn't think this Council in what they have expressed to him over this last year are willing to do what is necessary to get that in place. They would eliminate positions. Councilwoman Lichter made a motion to approve Res. 2007-R- 10, approving a $1,500,000.00 Line of Credit with Bank of America and authorizing execution of associated documents, second by Councilman Vincenzi. The MOTION CARRIED 4 -1. Councilwoman Roqers voted NO. 8. BOARD APPOINTMENTS A. Citizen Code Enforcement Board - nomination by Councilman Vincenzi to fill the remaining term of Gene Mirabella due to resignation (expires 5/21/2010) Councilman Vincenzi moved to appoint Lawrence Leaf, second by Councilwoman Rhodes. The MOTION CARRIED 5 - 0 . 9. OTHER BUSINESS A. Award of Bids and Contracts for Construction of Base Leg Drive and Rowan Way - approval of Notice to Award Bids from March 2007 and authorize Mayor or City Manager to execute associated contracts with Progressive Contractors for Rowan Way (Driveway "A") in the amount of $367,865.00 and Page 26 of38 Council Regular Meeting August 13,2007 with Halifax Paving, Inc. for Base Leg Drive in the amount of $1,347,556.35 David King, Quentin Hampton Associates, made a presentation. He recommended the award of those two bids. Mayor Thomas asked if this was part of their contract negotiations with the sale of the property. City Manager Williams stated they have clearly identified the use of the proceeds of the first check from the sale of the remaining acreage in ParkTowne to fulfill the obligations the City has for the construction of Base Leg and to provide access along the drainage canal, also known as Rowan Way or Driveway A. They had originally proposed prior to the sale to satisfy these obligations via debt so by using the proceeds from the sale of ParkTowne they are estimating savings associated at about $850,000 over a 15-year period. Councilwoman Lichter stated the last bid of voting they did in Florida Shores, they took the lowest bid possible and the result was that pavement didn't last as long as previous paving jobs. She asked if this lesser price because of lesser quality of pavement. Are they dealing with the same thing? Mr. King informed her they all bid on the same specifications. Mayor Thomas entertained a motion. Councilman Vincenzi made a motion to approve staff recommendation to enter into contracts with Progressive Contractors Inc. and Halifax Paving Inc. for necessary improvements required for ParkTowne Industrial Center, Rowan Way (Driveway A), Base Leg Drive (Massey Parcel Improvements) Bid #07-ES-02, second by Councilwoman Rogers. The MOTION CARRIED 5 - 0 . B. Award Contracts for Continuing Engineering Services - award contracts with five (5) engineering firms resulting from the May 2007 requests for proposal and authorize the City Manager to execute the associated agreements and authorize Quentin Hampton to act as the City Engineer Director of Environmental Services Terry Wadsworth made a staff presentation. Page 27 of 38 Council Regular Meeting August 13,2007 Councilwoman Rhodes stated they are also recommending that Quentin Hampton be the City Engineer. Mr. Wadsworth explained that was a recommendation from the City Attorney due to specific requirements for a City Engineer outlined in the Land Development Code. Councilwoman Rhodes asked how Quentin Hampton is going to be paid to do it. She asked if they would be paid by the job or if they were going to be paid a retainer every month. City Manager Williams asked if she was asking if they would be paid above and beyond what a traditional engineer would be paid during their normal scope of duty in providing that review. Councilwoman Rhodes stated right now they do it on an as needed per job basis. She asked if Quentin Hampton is going to get over and above that or if they would get a stipend or something to be the City Engineer. City Manager Williams thought that was left open as they are requesting to enter into those contract negotiations, that will be something they negotiate and it will be brought back to Council in the form of work orders as they have been done in the past and they will clearly identify those costs above and beyond that specifically identified in terms of serving as the City's main engineer. They bring back every time a work order for Council's approval as they have done in the past. If there is a fee to be charged above and beyond that they will clearly identify that in the work order. Councilwoman Rhodes stated if they are going to charge us to do that could they find somebody that maybe wouldn't charge us to do that. Mr. King explained the services they have been providing would be on an as needed basis. They aren't in the business of having to be on retainer. It will be a case-by-case, project-by-project basis. Councilman Vincenzi made a motion that the City enter into contract negotiations and award contracts to B & H Consultants, CPH, Quentin L. Hampton Associates, Inc. and Tinda1e-01iver Associates for continuing professional engineering services to cover the remainder of the current fiscal year in addition to the next three fiscal years ending September 30, 2010, with an option for extension of services at the end of three years. Page 28 of38 Council Regular Meeting August 13,2007 Councilman Vincenzi asked if they had to do the second item separate. City Attorney Ansay informed him he could make it part of the motion with regard to Quentin L. Hampton Associates, Inc. that they would be serving as the designated the City Engineer. Councilman Vincenzi included in his motion that Quentin L. Hampton Associates Inc. be appointed as the City Engineer, second by Councilwoman Rhodes. The MOTION CARRIED 5 - 0 . C. Award Contract for Agent of Record relating to Employee Benefit Broker Services - pursuant to the Request for Qualifications for an Agent of Record and recommendation of the Review Committee to award contract with Brown and Brown Insurance and authorize the Mayor or City Manager to execute the agreement Interim Personnel Director Donna Looney made a staff presentation. Mayor Thomas asked the representative from Brown & Brown why they should choose them. Tony Griffin, Brown & Brown, commented on being located in Volusia County and representing other cities in Volusia County as well as 230 cities in the State of Florida. They hope to save dollars for the City of Edgewater and they have the ability being located so close here to understand the importance of what works for every employee. Mayor Thomas stated when he sat in on Brown & Brown's presentation it looked like a win-win situation to him for the City employees and for the City government. He appreciated them coming to the meeting tonight. Councilwoman Lichter asked where their office was. Mr. Griffin informed her it was in Daytona Beach. Councilman Vincenzi asked Mr. Griffin to go over what their function is going to be. Mr. Griffin informed him their function is to present the City and the employees as they negotiate with health insurance and other ancillary insurance companies. He commented on Brown & Brown handling the City's property and casualty insurance for ten Page 29 of38 Council Regular Meeting August 13,2007 years and they have had great success in lowering rates. He spoke of the City having a terrific plan in place. Councilman vincenzi asked why Volusia Health Network was so much more money. He used to have Volusia Health Network when he was a professor at Embry Riddle and it was good coverage. He asked how come it is so much money and why they can't negotiate for a better deal. He asked if that was part of their function, if the City were to solicit different health benefit coverage. Mr. Griffin explained that is exactly their function, to solicit competition in order to drive the rates down and get better benefits. Mayor Thomas asked about Brown & Brown having someone that was available all the time for City employees to contact if they had a question. He was really impressed with that. Mr. Griffin informed him that was true. He commented on the broker, Jenn Botting, living right in New Smyrna and she is known to go out and see people specifically when they have a problem or go to the doctor's office and resolve the issue. They have made their name on service and working for the City and not the insurance company. City Manager Williams disclosed he has a family member that works for Brown & Brown. She is not an employee of the benefits division nor did she participate in the draft of the RFP's. Mayor Thomas entertained a motion. Councilwoman Lichter made a motion to authorize the City Manager to enter into a contract with Brown << Brown and authorize the City Manager to execute the engagement letter with Brown << Brown Insurance, second by Councilwoman Rhodes. The MOTION CARRIED 5 - 0 . Councilman Vincenzi informed Mr. Griffin he wanted them to speak to City Manager Williams about other insurance, Volusia Health Network possibly, with regard to price and coverage. D. Approval to Purchase 2 Eastern Shores Lots - approval for the purchase of these 2 lots will Page 30 of 38 Council Regular Meeting August 13, 2007 improve the Eastern Shores Stormwater Project and authorize the Mayor and City Manager to execute the appropriate closing documents Director of Environmental Services Terry Wadsworth made a staff presentation. Councilwoman Rogers stated it indicates that a budget amendment is required or that it is not required. City Manager Williams informed her a budget amendment would be necessary in this case providing that in total this fund exceeds what was appropriated. Councilwoman Rogers stated looking at the last sentence of the background it states the owner of the property agreed to accept the price that the property appraisers office valued it at. That tells her it is coming in under market, which she feels is a good thing. Also, the function of this property is going to benefit the citizens in a very necessary way. She is for this. Councilwoman Lichter asked for clarification of where the property is. Mr. Wadsworth informed her the residential lot faces on Eaton Street. The entrance to the pond itself is off of Dayton Street. They are separate parcels but they were sold together. They could separate it later on if there is a need. As it stands now they would like to utilize both lots in designing the stormwater improvements for that area. Mayor Thomas asked if the City had any choice than to do this for the proper stormwater drainage. Mr. Wadsworth informed him they need it to lock in the grant funding. Mayor Thomas entertained a motion. Councilwoman Rogers moved to approve the purchase of the property along Dayton Street and Eaton Road for $46,431 and authorize the Mayor or City Manager to execute the documents for the transfer of ownership, second by councilman Vincenzi. The MOTION CARRIED 5 - 0 . E. Vision/Strategic Plan - discussion from Council regarding the creation of a Visioning Committee Page 31 0[38 Council Regular Meeting August 13,2007 Mayor Thomas stated when he was running for Mayor he thought about starting an environmental committee and then when he saw how many committees the City had, it was a cluster of them and he thought it would be wise to start another committee. He then commented on the suggestion of the members that would serve on the Visioning Committee. He would be in favor of this if they put the member at large with an environmental background. Councilwoman Lichter stated she used to be on the Council on Aging and thought they did away with that group. There is still someone up there in charge but the group as far as meeting isn't in existence. She will be voting against this. She thinks they have a Planning & Zoning Board that has been challenged, authorized and told to put a plan together for the City. She thinks that they have numerous boards that also add to that, such as Economic Development. She thinks when people get elected to the Council from four different districts representing every area of the City that they also bring something to the group. She thinks they have more planning and more committees that are not necessary. She thinks they have put them through a process now, meeting at the airport where they said what they wanted and then they had other questionnaires got to the citizenry. She feels when people run for office they shouldn't be locked in to something forever because circumstances change. The ten years she has served on Council have changed but many of her visions haven't changed. She feels it is Council's responsibility and Planning & Zoning's responsibility and certainly they should listen to anyone with a plan. She feels they must be flexible and not lock themselves into something. Five good people on the Council should be able to do this supported by boards that are given the job to do it. Right now the Planning & Zoning Board has been given that direction to do it. She feels they are going to be going in all kinds of direction with this. She is not in favor of one more committee. Councilwoman Rhodes agreed with Councilwoman Lichter. She doesn't think it could hurt anything to have this committee. All ideas are welcome and needed. She thinks a vision statement and a mission statement is something the Council could do. She feels that might help focus at times when they want to go off in a direction that maybe is not the way they should be gong. She doesn't have a real problem with it but she doesn't see a huge need for it. Page 32 of 38 Council Regular Meeting August 13,2007 Councilman Vincenzi also agreed with Councilwoman Lichter. We do have committees that are charged with these duties. The City Council is supposed to be part of visioning and planning and creating mission statements. He doesn't have anything against another committee. He doesn't see any real productivity coming out of it that isn't covered already. He didn't think he supported it. Councilwoman Rhodes liked the idea. Councilwoman Rogers agreed with everyone at this point with one addition. When you have committees, the Council, when you have anything, you have to create agendas, minutes, and more paperwork. Around and around they go and nothing gets accomplished. She believes this is not necessary and she believes they have enough people within their committees and departments that they are already doing the job. They need to open their ears and give more opportunity. Mayor Thomas stated he forgot to get the staff report and asked City Manager Williams if he wanted to say anything. City Manager Williams stated he understood Council's perspective. He went back to when he was appointed last year as City Manager and the number of discussions they have had throughout the year. The City lacks a vision. Maybe a committee isn't necessarily what they need to establish that vision. They know how they have done business up to this point. They are looking at maybe a new approach. What is the harm with the Council's assistance in developing a vision statement for what they want the City to look like in fifty years? It is a broad statement and covers all the things they all look forward to. They can look at that and say are all the decisions that are being made today consistent with the vision they have established for what the community is to look like. Through that then they can come in and develop mission statements to accomplish Council's vision they have established and then they can hold a strategic planning session that begins to narrow the focus to accomplish the mission of the vision. They can establish goals and objectives. He feels it establishes a blueprint for Council and staff to pursue and to follow and to always look back at what they want to be. Page 330[38 Council Regular Meeting August 13,2007 Councilwoman Rhodes stated it would change and evolve over the years. It should be constantly evolving and flexible. City Manager Williams stated the goals to achieve that mission should. He read the example he provided as a vision statement. He feels the flexibility and the evolution they are looking at there is in the goals to achieve what that vision has been established. He thinks that is what they are looking for. City Manager Williams informed the Council they could establish the vision statement. Councilwoman Lichter stated Planning & Zoning has been asked in a sense to do something like that. She feels things have to be flexible. Those are goals that every City wants. It's how you accomplish them and the order you put them in that each City Council has a right to decide. City Manager Williams felt what they were trying to bring forward is an idea that the Council represents everybody's ideas. Councilwoman Lichter commented on a youth services group as well as a senior group they had in Connecticut and having things more on a County level in Florida. She commented on having City, County and State in Florida and only having City and State in Connecticut. She feels the Council should be able to do this with the help of Planning & Zoning and Economic Development. She commented on wanting to do away with the Beautification Committee in the past and it being incorporated with the Recreation/Cultural Services Board and they are now moving forward. She feels people come with new ideas and have the right to state their platform. City Manager Williams didn't think they were trying to take anybody's right to do that. He thought all they were asking for was something they can point their fingers and say are the decisions being made today consistent with the vision that has been established. Mayor Thomas asked City Manager Williams if he needed a motion to deny this. City Manager Williams informed him he would prefer one. Mayor Thomas suggested they let it die and revisit it later. City Manager Williams thought they then had the ability to go back to these boards and different folks that are saying why isn't there a vision statement. They presented it to them and Council doesn't want to adopt it into a form of a motion. Page 34 of 38 Council Regular Meeting August 13, 2007 Councilwoman Rhodes made a motion to draft a vision statement and mission statement but that they don't need a committee. Councilwoman Lichter stated she would like to add with the help of Planning & Zoning but she believed they were asked to do it. Councilwoman Rhodes stated and they may adopt that one but it is just her opinion that the City Council of this City adopting a visioning statement isn't going to hurt one thing. The MOTION DIED due to the lack of a second. Councilman Vincenzi made a motion to reject the idea of a Visioning Committee to draft a vision statement and steps for creating a mission statement based on the fact they have boards and City Council that should be doing that and should do it in the near future, second by Councilwoman Rogers. Councilwoman Lichter confirmed they were rejecting it. The MOTION CARRIED 4-1. Councilwoman Rhodes voted NO. 10. OFFICER REPORTS A. City Clerk City Clerk Wadsworth reminded everyone that they have the City Council seats for District 2 and District 4 coming up and qualifying begins on August 27th at 9:00 a.m. and ends at noon on September 6th. B. City Attorney City Attorney Ansay had nothing at this time. C. City Manager City Manager Williams went over the Summary of Sale for ParkTowne. City Manager Williams then commented on the widening of 10th Street and a meeting he had with Mr. Brinton from Volusia Page 35 of 38 Council Regular Meeting August 13,2007 County on July 25th. Due to high construction costs and a number of constraints, Phase 2 from Myrtle to U.S. #1 of 10th Street is in jeopardy unless the City as well as New Smyrna comes forward and participates in the cost share to the tune of about $1.4 million from each city. Councilman Vincenzi asked City Manager Williams if he was going to let them know Edgewater wasn't going to do it. City Manager Williams stated he told him they would support his efforts in some legislative action from the State in funding that road due to the fact that you have DBCC and Volusia County on 10th Street. That road really doesn't come into the City of Edgewater at this point in time although it is proposed to do so. He thinks they have committed their assistance in traveling to Tallahassee to petition for some State Funding. They told him they would look at other sources. Mayor Thomas asked if there is any portion of that road in the City of Edgewater. City Manager Williams informed him currently there is not but there will be with the new proposed alignment. Mayor Thomas asked if the canal was part of the City. City Manager Williams informed him the canal is the dividing line. The road will swing south of the canal into the City and they supported that alignment however they were very candid with Mr. Brinton that they didn't care to see it swing into Edgewater. They will participate in seeking funds for those folks but they didn't obligate the City to $1.4 million. City Manager Williams informed the Council they had a budget workshop scheduled for this Thursday, August 16th from 5 p.m. to 10 p.m. He requested they move the budget workshop to Friday, September 7th due to the fact that they have a number of pending items that are yet to be determined. Councilwoman Rogers asked what time they were planning to do this. City Manager Williams informed her they could start at 8 a.m. He felt they could finish in a half a day. It will be in its final format. Councilwoman Rogers asked if they could start at 8:30 a.m. instead of 8 a.m. Councilwoman Rhodes asked if they could do it at 9 a.m. It was the consensus of Council to start at 9 a.m. Page 36 of 38 Council Regular Meeting August 13,2007 City Manager Williams reminded the Council they have a meeting next Monday. Councilman Vincenzi informed City Manager Williams he would not be at the meeting because he will be on vacation celebrating his 25th wedding anniversary. 1) Tentative Agenda Items There were no Tentative Agendas to be discussed. 11. CITIZEN COMMENTS The following citizens spoke: Eric Bosse', 2718 Vista Palm Drive, commented on a brief he prepared regarding privatization and the effects it has on municipalities. He asked the Council to take time read it. Councilman Vincenzi stated he knew they talked about looking into it but he seriously didn't see it happening. Councilwoman Rhodes didn't either. Councilman Vincenzi understood Mr. Bosse' being worried about it. William Glasser, 1703 Needle Palm Drive, stated the last time he was at bat he was reading some excerpts of Ord. 569. He stated in the Code of Ordinances it states the speed limits in the City of Edgewater shall be 25 miles per hour. He asked if Ord. 569 negates a show of hands from the meeting in 1964. Councilwoman Rhodes felt if it wasn't written down it didn't count. Mr. Glasser asked if it would be possible to put this on the ballot and give the voters in Florida Shores a chance to vote yeah or nay whether they want the speed limit 25 or 30 miles per hour. Councilman Vincenzi asked Mr. Glasser if his objective was to lower the speed limit to 25. Mr. Glasser informed him he has been complaining for 25 years about speeding on the streets. He commented on receiving stupid answers from people over the years. State Statutes say the City can do what it wants that isn't illegal yet nobody will do their job. He asked that it be put on the ballot to see if the people want it then maybe the City is obligated to do it for a change. Page 37 0[38 Council Regular Meeting August 13, 2007 Councilman Vincenzi stated he was trying to figure out what Mr. Glasser wanted to do so they could determine what needs to be done. If his objective was to lower the speed limit, he asked that they find out what needs to be done and then they could discuss it and possibly do it. Mr. Glasser stated his objective is he would like to have sidewalks. Councilman Vincenzi stated he would like to have sidewalks too but some things aren't possible. Councilwoman Rogers stated the other thing Mr. Glasser brought out was that on Riverside Drive there are sidewalks and it is 25 mph and that is what is in our ordinances. Florida Shores is 30 miles per hour and there are no sidewalks. At first he was just wanting Florida Shores to be at least 25 miles per hour or make Riverside 30 miles per hour so at least it's comparable and then of course to work on putting more sidewalks in Florida Shores. There are some coming in now because of what is going on with the public schools and everything through the MPO but she didn't think they needed to put it on the ballot to get the speed reduced to 25 miles per hour based on the fact of what Mr. Glasser presented and how it got up to 30 in the first place, by a show of hands. City Manager Williams agreed to look into it. 12 . ADJOURNMENT There being no further business to discuss, Councilwoman Lichter moved to adjourn. The meeting adjourned at 9:50 p.m. Minutes submitted by: Lisa Bloomer Page 38 of 38 Council Regular Meeting August 13,2007