01-16-1986
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CITY OF EDGEWATER
PLANNING AND ZONING BOARD
REGULAR MEETING
JANUARY 16, 1986
9:00 A.M.
COMMUNITY CENTER
Chairman Bennington called to order a regular meeting of the Planning and Zoning
Board at 9:00 A.M., January 16, 1986 in the Community Center.
ROLL CALL:
Members present were Messrs. Jake Wheeler, George Quaggin, Fred Finn, James
Mackie, Paul Loeffler and Don Bennington. Also present were Connie Martinez,
City Clerk and Administrator, Dennis Fischer, Building Official and Jan Morris,
Secretary.
APPROVAL OF MINUTES:
The minutes of January 02, 1986 were presented for approval. Mr. Mackie made
a motion to approve the minutes. Mr. Loeffler seconded the motion. Minutes
APPROVED 6-0.
ELECTION OF OFFICERS:
Considering the lengthy agenda, Mr. Mackie made a motion to table the election
of officers until the next meeting. Motion seconded by Mr. Wheeler. Motion
CARRIED 6-0.
SITE PLAN REVIEW SP 8525
Mr. Michael Faidley was present to discuss this site plan. Mr. Bennington read
a letter from the Building Official in reference to the shell parking area. He
recommended that the Board consider a change in the section of the code requiring
hard surface parking area to exempt locations that do not abut on an already
existing paved street with the stipulation that if the street is paved in the
future the parking lot must be paved to conform with the regulation. Mr. Bennington
said they have been requiring paved parking for one and one half years and he
didn't think it would be fair to stop now. The landscape and tree ordinance
was discussed. Mr. Faidley explained the site plan was for an addition to an
already existing business. Mr. Loeffler made a motion to accept the preliminary
site plan. Mr. Wheeler added providing he comes up with the landscaping and if
the street is paved he will have to pave the parking lot. Mr. Bennington said
said that was in violation of our ordinance which says it will be paved now.
Mr. Wheeler stated he would withdraw that last. Mr. Loeffler:stated
we are just accepting the preliminary plan. Mr. Faidley remarked he had wanted
a final. He was informed the Board could not give him final approval. Mr. Loeffler
stated that all they were doing was telling him they would go along with his plans
if it meets all the zoning. Mr. Bennington stated the motion was to give
preliminary approval pending he brings everything up to code. Mr. Faidley
was informed he needed twelve hard surface parking spaces and to landscape
the site. Mr. Wheeler seconded the motion. Motion CARRIED 6-0.
CERTIFICATE OF ZONING REQUESTS
COZ 86-01 MIKE MULLINS
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MANUFACTURE OF ROOF AND FLOOR TRUSSES
Mr. Mullins was present to discuss the certificate of zoning. Mrs. Martinez, City
Clerk and Administrator read letters which she had received objecting to the
Truss Plant. The letters were from Mrs. Erwin Hartman, Laura and Michael Chance
and Grace Manwaring, all residents of Eastern Village Mobile Park. The letters
were in reference to the noise and fumes from the Plant. Mr. Ralph Racca was
also present to object to issuing this certificate of zoning. The Board
explained that if the zoning codes were met they had to approve the certificate.
of zoning. Mr. Racca stated that noise level test had been performed by the
City and a private company. He said that the noise level exceeded the limit.
Mr. Fischer, Building Official, stated the test were performed by a independent
company which found the'plant within the noise level requirements. Mr. Mullins
stated the reason they are applyfug for a new license is the City could not find where
occupation license had ever been issued to the old company. He also stated that he
had come unprepared to anawe~ all these complaints not knowing it would be a part of
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this meeting. Mr. Mullins stated that the Code Enforcement Board had found
them in compliance with the noise level ordinance. Mr. Mullins also related that
they made offers to plant trees and erect fencing but nothing had been resolved
with the residents ~f the mobile home court. Mr. Mul+ins explained he has
eleven employees but hopes to increase it to sixteen or seventeen. The Board
found the plant to have adequate parking. Mr. Bennington stated the Code Enforcement
Board, which is basically a court, has ruled the plant is in compliance. He
said the land is zoned industry and also the Board was not issuing a license
they were reviewing the application to see if it complies with the zoning requirements.
Mr. Wheeler made a motion to approve the certificate of zoning. Mr. Loeffler
seconded the motion. Motion CARRIED 6-0.
COZ 86-02
ROBERT AND KATHLEEN POULIN
USED FURNITURE SALES B-3
Kathleen Poulin was present to discuss this certificate of zoning request. The
request was to locate a used furniture store at 928 South Ridgewood Avenue. The
parking was discussed and it was determined that parking spaces, entrances,
exits and driveway needed to be hard surfaced. The Board informed Mrs. Poulin.
that she needs to show the dimension~ of the parking, the handicap spaces,
location of the parking spaces and the paving. Mr. Wheeler made a motion to
table the COZ until Mrs. Poulin returns with the changed plans to show all the
requirements for her business. Mr. Loeffler seconded the motion. Motion
CARRIED 6-0.
COZ 86-03
JOSEPH L. GARBOWSKI
P.I.D.
TRUSS MANUFACTURING
Mr. Garbowski was present to discuss this certificate of zoning. Access to the
property was discussed. Mr. Garbowski assured the Board he was working out
access with the FEC. He also stated there was three possible access routes to
the property. The parking was discussed during which time Mr. Garbowski stated
there was about thirty parking spaces in front of the building and it is all
paved. It was stated that a truss plant had been located at this site in the
past. Mr. Wheeler made a motion to approve the COZ. Motion seconded by Mr.
Mackie. Motion CARRIED 6-0.
The meeting was recessed for five minutes at this time. Reconvened at 10:10 A.M.
with Mr. Wheeler being excused due to a family emergency.
COZ 86-04
VERNON B. DOVER
B-2 REAL ESTATE SALES
Mr. Dover was present to discuss this certificate of zoning. Mr. Dover said
this is for a real estate sales office to be located at 1804 Hibiscus Drive.
Mr. Dover stated that they have three parking spaces in the front and eight on
the side of the building. Mr. Loeffler made a motion to approve the COZ.
The motion was seconded by Mr. Mackie. Motion CARRIED 5-0.
COZ 86-05
NORMAN E. WILLIAMS ALL PRO FABRICATION (RACE CAR MANUFACTURING)
Mr. Paul Taylor was present to discuss this certificate of zoning. This business
is to be located at 821 Park Avenue. Mr. Bennington stated that Mr. Williams
had been to the Board of Adjustments for a special exception which had been granted.
The Planning and Zoning Board had reviewed his application for a special exception
at their January 02 meeting. Mr. Taylor stated they have four parking spaces,
the whole front is paved and the customers can go completely around the building.
Mr. Loeffler made a motion to approve the COZ. Mr. Mackie seconded the motion.
Motion CARRIED 5-0.
COZ 86-06 SHIRLEY JEAN KOCHIS B-3 SHIRL'S USED FURNITURE SALES
Mr. Bennington stated that this certificate of zoning application had been
withdrawn.
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Planning and Zoning Board
Regular meeting minutes
January 16, 1986
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COZ 86-07
FRANK P. BYRNE
TERRY'S HOTDOGS
(SERVICE ESTABLISHMENT)
Mr. Byrne was present to discuss this certificate of zoning. He said he
would have a mobile stainless steel hotdog cart which he would be taking home
in the evenings. Mr. Mackie asked if Mr. Byrne intended to just park the cart
there or if he would be touring the City with it. Mr. Byrne replied the wagon
will be parked there from about 10:00 A.M. to about 3:30 P.M. and he will not
be driving around the City. He stated he could get a peddlers permit from the
County and go anywhere but he wanted to stay in one location. There was a
discussion on what the Health Department would require and the traffic flow
on the highway. A motion was made by Mr. Loeffler to get more information from
the Health Department and Police Department before making a decision. Motion
seconded by Mr. Mackie. Motion CARRIED 5-0.
COZ 86-08
BARRY'S HYDRAULIC SERVICE
PAUL TAYLOR
Mr. Taylor was present to discuss this certificate of zoning. This is a hydraulic
service and repair to be located at 82l-B Park Avenue. Mr. Taylor said he was
petitioning off a part of the All Pro Fabrication Shop to use as his hydraulic
repair business. He is a partner in the All Pro Fabrication Shop. Mr. Taylor
stated he would not have machinery coming in to repair, it would be hoses he
would be replacing mostly. He added if any machinery were to be repaired the
customer would have to tear it down and bring in the hydraulics. He stated
there would be no actual drive in or walk in customers. Mr. Loeffler made a motion
to accept the COZ. Motion was seconded by Mr. Mackie. Motion CARRIED 5-0.
OLD BUSINESS:
COZ 85-58 ALFRED A. DECUBELLIS
B-3 AUTO SERVICE TYPE B
Mr. DeCubellis was present to discuss this certificate of zoning. Mr. Bennington
stated this had been tabled at the last meeting and Mr. DeCubellis was to bring
back something to show them where it is, how it is laid out and it has to
comply with the parking code. Mr. DeCubellis stated he wants the option to
repair his customers car or maybe a customers daughter's car. He said he was
not going to put up a sign or advertise because one man could only do so many
things. Mr. Bennington stated Mr. DeCubellis now has a license for used car
sales and now wants an additional license to run a garage. Mr. Bennington
said he still had not submitted anything they could use for parking. It had
been explained at the last meeting they needed a drawing showing the parking
spaces, the size of the spaces and they must meet code. He said the only thing
different was they now had some measurements and showing them where the building
is. Mr. Bennington informed Mr. DeCubellis he would need to show the parking
for both businesses. Mr. Bennington suggested Mr. DeCubellis pick up a copy
of the parking code so he would know what was needed in order for the Board
to make a decision. Mr. Bennington read from the minutes of January 02
in relation to what had been asked of Mr. DeCubellis. Once again Mr. Bennington
informed Mr. DeCubellis that he needs to show the size of the parking, the
location and how they get off the street. Mr. Loeffler noted he has plenty of
land he just doesn't show the parking. Mr. Mackie made a motion to table the
COZ until they get further information. Mr. Finn seconded the motion.
Motion CARRIED 5-0.
PRELIMINARY PLAT SP-8534
CHEROKEE RIDGE
MASSEY ENTERPRISES
R-l
Mr. Bennington stated what they needed on this preliminary plat was stormwater,
side walks and the trees and landscaping. Mr. Massey said the stormwater
was completely drawn up and sitting in Frank Marshall's office. and they had
discussed last time these would be submitted to Mr. Ferrara for his approval.
Mr. Massey informed the Board he did have the preliminary plat modified to
show the side walks and after reading the tree and landscape ordinance and finding
it applied to individual lots they made notations on the plat that each builder
will be required to comply with. This being done before the plat is registered
it becomes a part of the public record and would be binding on these builders.
Mr. Bennington said if they approve it that way it would put portion of the
landscaping on the Building Official and he normally doesn't have that on
single family homes. The Building Official said he would not have any problem
with the enforcement of the landscape restrictions on Mr. Massey's plat. Mr.
Massey stated they would like to handle the sidewalks the same way because
they would be torn up during construction. He was told he would have to make
a determination for the location of sidewalks but could pave the sidewalks
when he paves the drive. Mr. Massey related that he was going to retain the
responsibility for the sidewalks so that they would look good and be uniform
After a lengthy discussion Mr. Loeffler made a motion to approve the preliminary
plat pending engineer approval. Motion was seconded by Mr. Quaggin. Motion
CARRIED 5-0.
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Planning and Zoning Minutes
January 16, 1986
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SET BACK ENCROACHMENTS FOR THE ENTIRE CITY
Mr. Bennington said he had a couple recommendations that came out of the meetings
they had. He stated they had a meeting that lasted almost all day last Friday
with Connie, the Attorney and Himself and another one on Tuesday. He said they
were researching Pelican Cove West as to what exists and what doesn't. A couple
of things that came out of it effects the setback encroachments for the entire
City. One of the things was the minimum of ten feet on anything for fire reasons.
There was a lengthy discussion about the set back encroachment recommendations
made by the Building Official. His recommendations were: 1. Air Conditioners
3.5 feet into the yard, 2. Awnings 3 feet into the yard, 3. Balconies 5 feet
into the yard. 4. Fireplaces 3 feet into the yard. 5. Driveways 5 feet from
sides and rear property lines with the exception of zero lot lines, 6. Overhangs
3 feet into the yard, 7. Sills 1 foot into the yard, 8. Screen room, Florida
room, roofed patio (roof with three sides open) shall not extend into set backs
for that areas required zoning. The following was included NOTE: In no case
shall the encroachment exceed 50% of the minimum yard dimension. These
encroachments allowed in side and rear yards only. The definition of screen
room was included also: An addition to the existing structure most commonly
attached to the fascia board, aluminum in nature, with roof and three sides open.
The Board decided that fireplaces were part of the structure and eliminated
that set back encroachment. Mr. Fischer stated these encroachments are things that
are not normally on the house at the time of construction. While discussing
the patios and screen rooms Mr. Bennington related the Attorney said they
should just tell people they can't put things in their setback period because
if you can't put it out there you can't come back and enclose it when the
Building Official is not looking. Mr. Bennington also said this would solve
the problems like Phase I of Pelican Cove West. They are telling us they have
a problem and are asking for a solution but at the same time we want to make sure
it doesn't happen again. That is why if we change the whole thing it is going
to affect the whole City. This should be working in conjunction with the zoning
of Pelican Cove West so let's refer to that.
ZONING OF PELICAN COVE WEST
Mr. Bennington reported basically what was determined on Pelican Cove West was the
Attorney says by DeFacto or DeFault it is R-4. Because the attorney at that time
said treat it as R-4 and the fact that the City has been treating it as R-4
for like three years. He says you are zoned R-4 due to default. Mr. Bennington
stated he doesn't remember whether we actually have to physically zone it or not
but at the same time we want to make recommendations to Council how we want to
handle Phase I. I think our recommendation was that R-4A all setbacks be the same
as R-4 with the exception of patios may extend within ten feet of the rear property
line. Mr. Fischer said we are applying the same as fire separation, the sides,
and the rears. We think that there is no reason we should reduce the rear set
back less than ten feet.
Mr. Bennington related to the Board that when Planning and Zoning approved the
plat that was looked at it showed Phase I and II and showed them both as
duplexes. Now the plat that was apparently signed and on file in the County only
showed Phase I. He said he knew there was three of four days research that went
into this. He also stated that variances were granted and there was 80% talked
about and various things but basically what the conclusion was that the Planning
Board at the time looked at the whole project as R-4. It has been treated as
R-4 all along and the final concurrence was that the variances did effect the
whole project due to that 80% and also due to the fact the people were lead
to believe they were discussing the whole project. Mr. Mackie asked if this
is applying throughout the City I assume this is mostly directed to this kind v
of situation a duplex and so forth. Mr. Bennington stated right (referring to the
set back encroachments) we are talking about everything.
Mr. Bennington stated Pelican Cove West Phase II plat has been submitted to the
City for signatures. Everybody is determined that these footprints are on that
plat. On the plans approved by this Board or past Board is the only thing that
can be built there. Anything different would have to be brought back for changes
This means that things that happened in Phase I shall not happen in Phase II. Without
site plan re-approved there are some lots shown vacant that will have to stay vacant
unless there is some kind of change or approval.
Mr. Loeffler asked if we could not just accept these houses that are already
built as constructed as permanent, just accept this for those seventeen houses
and anything after that would have to come in for a special exception.
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Planning and Zoning Minutes
January 16, 1986
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A discussion ensued between some residents of Pelican Cove West Phase I, The Board
and the Building Official. Mr. Fischer said if this regulation is passed and
the proper building permits are applied for prior to construction, then there should
be only one existing building at eight feet. Mr. Fischer also related the thing
is the rear wall of the screen room will not be allowed to be installed to the
end of the present slab on the ground. You will have to take from the rear property
line bring it back ten feet pop a line on it and that is where the screen room
location will be. You will have what is called a lip or an ear on the back side.
Mr. Bennington said 'if we, delete that term the next thing down screen room, add
regular patio in there with that shall not extend into the set back for the areas
required zoning. He said that will stop it anywhere, now this will mean when
he builds a house in Phase II or if anybody builds a house in Florida Shores they
can not pour a concrete slab within the set back area. If they can't pour it they
can't enclose it. Phase I, we are going to change the zoning on it so you can do
it. If in fact he cut the wall down, it's his wall and property, he can sell those
people anything he wants. He can sell them a hundred, two or fifty feet or whatever,
but his plat can not differ from what was approved. Mr. Bennington said this man
has been told the City is not going to bend any further and if he does this again
and promises these people they can put up patios then Dennis is going to go in
and make them tear them down and they can sue the man. Mr. Bennington stated
in Phase II the set backs will be twenty feet because his variances were granted
with the twenty feet set back.
The non-conforming lots and their setbacks were discussed. Mr. Fischer explained
some of the problems he has had with the set backs such as air conditioners
being put right under a neighbors bedroom window. He said if it is not in the
Code Book they can not enforce it. Pelican Cove West and the patios were
discussed again. Mr. Bennington stated the impression he got was we have been
told to treat this land as R-4. It is R-4 by DeFacto. If you try to go zone it
something else you will have problems.
Mr. Loeffler made a motion to recommend to the City Council that Pelican Cove
West Phase I be zoned R-4 and accept the pre-existing patios as of this date.
A discussion ensued as whether this would be spot zoning. Mrs. Martinez said
she would ask the Attorney this and find out if it can be done that way.
Mr. Finn left the meeting during the discussion.
The motion was seconded by Mr. Quaggin. Motion CARRIED 4-0.
SET BACK ENCROACHMENTS FOR ENTIRE CITY
This subject was discussed before and in conjunction with Pelican Cove West.
Mr. Bennington said without passing these set back encroachments we are going
to end up with the same problem in Pelican Cove West Phase II as in Phase I.
Mr. Loeffler said yes, but the slab can't extend into the set back.
Mr. Fischer said it can now, you can pour concrete to all four corners now if
you want to.
Mr. Loeffler made a motion to recommend to the Council that the set back
encroachments and definition of screen room be adopted. Motion seconded by
Mr. Mackie. Motion CARRIED 4-0.
SET BACK FOR RIVERSIDE DRIVE
Mr. Fischer said the Board had decided that they should review the site plans
for R-lA prior to issuing permits. Mr. Fischer furnished them with copies
of a site plan of John Gross's house plans and property. He explained the site
plan. He said a portion of the total property is in Edgewater and told them
they were looking at the total property with a pie piece of the first one hundred
twenty eight feet diagonally flowing out in the New Smyrna lines. He pointed
out the house location and said the lot and the width of the house is approximately
one hundred thirty three feet. He said this is a lot that doesn't give all
the vegetation and water line. Mr. Fischer stated he has been at the location
and approximately 30 feet from the water's edge has been maintained. This is the
question when I was asking for that thirty feet from the high water mark, How
do we determine a high water mark on a piece of property such as this one up
there that rises and falls. There are some pockets with water in it from rainfall
and you notice on there on the orginial survey of the property the approximate
vegetation line and at the top of that it has the westerly right of way intracoasatl
water. Now some of that land is submerged. So what we are looking at here is a
rear set back we haven't got in concrete yet, the thirty feet to the high water
mark. Presently our book on this R-lA says in the rear of the structure to the
back of his property line thirty feet. This house location to that direct property
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Planning and Zoning Minutes
January 16, 1986
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line closest to scaling runs a hundred and fifty. Granted some of that is
submerged or sem-submerged. There is approximately thirty feet plus or minus
to t.he house location. This is one of the reasons that I think in that R-1A
zone that we ask for the average high water mark on the survey. This can be
determined by a surveyor but if we ask for mean high tide that becomes a survey
in itself. This is talking to Lucas, Cory and the rest of them. We have done
enough work up and down here that the Corp of Engineers is going to supply me
with total survey maps on their water lines. We can use those or we could
require the survey at the time to show us average high water mark but at the
present we don't have anything down.
Mr. Loeffler ask if the water line differs much from the vegetation line.
Mr. Fischer said yes, the salt water vegetation will grow in standing water.
Mr. Fischer stated he would be attending a meeting on permitting in the wetlands
in Jacksonville. He said if you build in this area or if you build in the
wetlands or other areas he usually tries to contact DER and have a local man
come down and determine just how much are or what things he can fill or cover up.
He stated if you move away from the bank itself or out in the waters
they need a dredge and fill permit. He also related these have irregular lands
it is not just direct bank or falloff. Therefore if we establish a thirty feet
to the average high water mark, a front set back of sixty five feet from the center
of the roadway to the house and if they can't meet those requirements they
will have to ask for dredge and fill permits.
Mr. Mackie said the main thing is if it extends into the water the land is no
good to nobody, it is not useable land.
Mr. Bennington said that is what he is saying the ordinance says thirty feet.
The man owns a hundred feet right now the ordinance doesn't take into fact
that ninety eight feet is under water. The ordinance doesn't address it and
that is why he suggested we change it to read thirty feet form the high water
mark. What he is saying is let's make it thirty feet of dry land. Now the
Council kicked it back for more information.
Mrs. Martinez said she believes this section of the minutes will eliminate
any of their questions.
Mr. Bennington said what we are trying to do is get away from letting them
count underwater land as dry land.
It was stated the memo to Council read "from the rear of the building thirty
feet to the high water mark."
SIGN ORDINANCE 79-0-25
The Board members stated they had not had time to study the sign ordinance therefore
a motion was made, seconded and CARRIED 4-0. to table the subject until they
had sufficient time to study.
AMENDED AGENDA
APPROVAL OF MINUTES:
The minutes of December 19, 1986 were presented for approval. Mr. Quaggin made
a motion to approve the minutes as written. Motion seconded by Mr. Loeffler.
Minutes unanimously APPROVED.
EXPIRING TERMS OF BOARD MEMBERS
Mr. Bennington stated his and Mr. Quaggins terms were explrlng in February.
Mrs. Martinez related they did not have any resumes for the Planning and Zoning
Board even though advertisements had been in the newspapers. The Board held
a discussion on the expiring terms. Mr. Loeffler made a motion to keep
everyone on the Board until they find replacements for them. Motion was seconded
by Mr. Mackie. Motion CARRIED 2-0.
Mr. Quaggin and Mr. Bennington stated they would be happy to serve another term
if re-appointed.
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Planning and Zoning Minutes
January 16, 1986
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MISCELLANEOUS:
A gentleman said he has a problem with opening his ceramic shop at the 2102
Downtown Edgewater Plaza which is in a B-5 zone. He said they tell him he is
not qualified to have it there. This business is being transferred from Park
Avenue. The Board determined that a ceramic shop would be a hobby shop which is
qualified.
The Board also discussed a Kung Eu Club to be located at the Downtown Edgewater
Plaza. They determined it would be a health club if there are no State or
County restrictions.
There being no further business to corne before the Board a motion was made by
Mr. Mackie to adjourn. Motion seconded by Mr. Quaggin. Meeting duly adjourned
at 1:15 P.M.
Respectively Submitted By:
Jan Morris
Planning and Zoning Board Minuts
Regular Meeting
January 16, 1986
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