12-12-1985
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CITY OF EDGEWATER
BOARD OF ADJUSTMENT
December 12, 1985 7:00 p.m.
MINUTES
The Chairman called the meeting to order at 7:00 p.m. in the
Community Center, Edgewater.
CALL TO ORDER/ROLL CALL
Members present were: Richard Moran, J'immie Newell, Louise Mart in,
Alice Murphy, Robert Garthwaite. Mr. Savini was excused, Mr. Wolfe
was absent.
Also present were Mrs. Lloyd and Mrs. Clark, residents of Pelican
Cove West; Mr. Geil, applying for a Variance; Mr. and Mrs. White,
from Orlando, Florida.and Frank Opal, interested citizens.
...
APPROVAL OF MINUTES
Mr. Newell made a motion to approve the minutes of November 14, 1985,
seconded by Mr. Moran. Motion CARRIED 5-0.Mrs. Martin made a motion
to approve the minutes of a Special Meeting held November 19, 1985,
seconded by Mr. Newell. Motion CARRIED 5-0.
Mr. Garthwaite announced we would get right to old business.
OLD BUSINESS
Requests for 12 foot variances by Mr. and Mrs. Edward Clark of 808
Egret Court and Mrs. Eilleen Lloyd, of 810 Egret Court, to install
screen rooms at the back of their property. Mr. Garthwaite announced
this had been discussed at our last meeting, and the builcting
official had made a recommendation at that meeting that the
set backs be changed, and that Council had sent it back to the
Planning and Zoning Board who will make recommendations. Mr. Fischer
stated Planning and Zoning is considering making this into an R4-A
zoning district, which will allow ten foot set backs instead of
twenty.
Mr. Garthwaite then stated that at the last meeting, the Board
discussed the question as to whether we should go by the 25 foot
set backs as stated by the Code now, or by the 20 foot set backs
and that according to the City Attorney, the Board was informed
they should go by what was originally platted, which would be
twenty foot set backs.
Mrs. Murphy stated perhaps the set backs will have to be eight feet,
as some of the slabs were only eight feet. Mr. Garthwaite explained
he understood that is what the people were asking for, but what the
Planning and Zoning Board is going along with, he does not know.
Mrs. Murphy then answered she had been at the meeting and all those
with less than ten feet will have to go for variances unless they
want to chop it off. Mr. Newell stated he had been at the meeting
also and understood there were about sixteen or seventeen people,
some of whom had already built, with less than ten feet.
Mr. Garthwaite then asked Mrs. Lloyd and Mrs. Clark if they wanted
to withdraw their applications; if they wanted to go ahead with the
hearing tonight; or thirdly, they could ask for a continuance.
Mrs. Murphy stated the Planning Board seemed sympathetic to their
request but the question seemed to be if they are going to make it
eight or ten feet. Mr. Newell stated it will be some time before
Council makes its decision, perhaps until February.
Mr. Garthwaite then asked Mrs. Clark if she had any statements to
make and Mrs. Clark explained she had twenty feet, a 12 foot slab
in the back, 12 x 30, which leaves her with eight feet. Mr. Newell
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stated Mrs. Clark will be one of the ones who will only have
eight feet. Mrs. Clark stated her neighbor already has built
his and Mr. Garthwaite stated if the Council does not approve
an eight foot set back and it is brought before the Code
Enforcement Board, he more than likely will have to tear it
down or cut two feet off, which everyone agrees is terrible.
But Mr. Garthwaite explained we just can't allow people to
violate the Ordinances of the City of Edgewater, say they are
sorry, pay a fine, and then let them have what they want.
Mrs. Clark stated Mr. Carder ~~ still building houses with just an
eight foot setback, and Mr. Garthwaite stated something like
that would be up to the Code Enforcement Board, that if Mr. Carder
is wrong, he is wrong. Mr. Newell said Mr. Carder had come up
with the recommendation for the Planning and Zoning Board that
they present this set back problem to Council, and that the
Planning and Zoning Board can't change it, it has to be changed
by Council. Mr. Newell explained they have to have a public
hearing, etc., and it will probably go on until February.
Mrs. Clark asked if a continuance would cause a lot of trouble, as
her husband is very ill. Mr. Garthwaite explained that it would
just be set up for the first meeting after Council makes a decision.
Mrs. Murphy asked that if we worked on it tonight, and we refuse
itJ and Council rezones it, then what. Mr. Newell added then Mrs.
Clark could build it. Mrs.Clark then asked if she received a
variance tonight, could she go on with the building. Mr. Garthwaite
said we must first follow the book, and that a variance is very
hard to get.
After much discussion, Mrs. Clark and Mrs. Lloyd requested a
continuance of the request for a variance and the continuance is
for a period until rezoning by Council. The secretary was instructed
to notify Mrs. Clark and Mrs. Lloyd when Council acts on the rezoning.
John Scherz request for variance of 12 feet for a screened patio at
905 Egret Court. Mr. Scherz did not appear. Mr. Garthwaite asked
to continue this case for one month, and to ask Mr. Scherz if he wants
to withdraw his request.
Luis C. Geil, request for a 13 foot variance at 612 North Ridgewood
Avenue, to build a professional building.
Mr. Garthwaite stated that for general information, Mr. Geil has a
letter stating he is representing M. A. Dickson, Inc.; that this has
been advertised and that abutting property owners have been notified.
Mr. Garthwaite then asked Mr. Geil if, looking at his plot plan, the
South side of the property is where he needs the variance, and that
on the Southwest there is a house, and Mr. Geil answered y~? that is
correct. Mr. Moran stated he could not see the posted sign, and Mr.
Geil said it is on the front tree. The secretary was asked to prepare
two signs in the future when there are two streets involved. Mr.
Garthwaite then asked members of the Board if they had any questions,
and Mrs. Murphy questioned Mr. Geil if it is his intention to have
professional offices, and if doctors are to be there,. they will
have to have five parking spaces each and one for each employee.
Mr. Geil stated there will be no doctors there. Mr. Moran asked if
the old building that is there now is going to stay there, and Mr.
Geil stated no, it is going to be taken down. ~rs. Martin stated
she just had the same question as to whether the old building is
being taken down and Mr. Geil assured her it was.
Board of Adjustment Minutes
of December 12, 1985 Meeting
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Mr. Newell then asked how many square feet is covered on this, and
Mr. Geil said the building is 5744 square feet. Mrs. Murphy said
she was still concerned that medical offices would eventually move
in there and the parking would not be available, and that is her
biggest concern. Mr. Geil stated his proposed offices are 600 square
feet, with some at 1100, and they are just too small for doctor's v
offices. Mr. Geil also stated if they apply for an occupancy license
they have to prove they have enough parking and they do not. Mr.
Newell stated they are having this same problem in another section.
Mr. Geil stated again they are not looking for doctors. Mr. Garthwaite
stated as far as parking is concerned, that is really up to the City,
and Mr. Geil said the Planning Board is looking into this also. Mr.
Geil also stated the eastern half to the south had a 10 foot ~et back
in about 1980, and the adjacent building to that had a 10 foot set
back; and that there are three houses there with less than 10 foot
set backs. Mr. Garthwaite explained a lot depends on when the
houses were built, and Mr. Geil said one was just built about three
years ago. Mr. Geil set forth an opinion that the zoning is intended
for a larger parcel of land than these smaller individual lots, and
believes it is the wrong type of zoning. Mr. White, who is an
abutting property owner, asked if he could see the plot and was
given one to study. Mr. Moran then asked Mr. Geil how many offices
will~bein the building and Mr. Geil replied there will be nine
offices of six different sizes.
Mr. Garthwaite then asked Mr. White to step forward and he stated
his name was Thomas White, and that he is the owner of property
known as Lots 2 through 6, and that he is here from Orlando. He also
stated he would like to talk variances first, and believes they are
zoned B-5 and shouldn't be, as the set backs are too small. He
explained rather than changing the zoning, they have apparently
decided to take it to the Variance Board and that he has nothing
against that, but he does want the record to show that when he comes
forward for a set back, he should be entitled to the same variance
without getting the property rezoned from B5 back to B3. Mr. White
stated the second thing was the City of Edgewater has an easement
underneath that building that is to furnish sewer to his property.
He also stated that in January of 1982, the property owner of the
property this is to be built on, came before the City and had an
easement abandoned for that sewer without notifying him. He also
stated it only comes to him, that is the only reason the sewer is
there. He stated they then came back, realizing they had not
notified him, and rescinded the easement. Mr. White went on to
explain that they further found there was a house located on top of
that easement, another reason for doing away with the easement, but
that he is still without sewerage. After quite a discussion, Mr.
Geil explained that future plans call for a sewer line directly to
Mr. White's property. Mrs. White then expressed the thought that
she feels very insecure about a variance being granted before this
problem of sewerage is settled. Mr. Garthwaite then interrupted and
stated he would like to make it clear that if a variance is granted,
special conditions can be attached which would protect the rights
of Mr. and Mrs. White. Mr. White stated again he was not against
the variance and can understand Mr. Geil's reason for requesting
one, but he just wanted to state his question with respect to the
sewerage, as it seems to have been forgotten by Council and Mr.
Garthwaite added he doesn't know how Council is handling it.
Mr. Garthwaite then asked if there were any further questions from
anyone and as there were not, he asked the Board to turn to page
1644 of the Code Book to make a determination on each criteria.
(a) Special circumstances do exist. Mrs. Murphy believed the
narrowness of the lot ~isturbed her, and Mr. Garthwaite said yes,
you could look at it another way and say the largeness of the
building. Mrs. Murphy asked to be called later on during the
Board of Adjustment Minutes
of December 12, 1985 Meeting
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-meeting. :Mr. ,Moran stated special circumstances do exist.
Mr. Newell stated also that these circumstances exist, to which
Mrs. Martin agreed. Mrs. Murphy then stated she is just trying
to justify the fact that Mr. Geil's land is different, and Mr.
Garthwaite added he does believe this is something that should
be rezoned. He also stated if someone wants to build a large
building on a small lot, it is not a hardship, and if we grant
a variance for one, we would have to grant for all. Mr. Geil
stated there are only two houses left. Mrs. Murphy then returned
to the question of building a large building on a small lot, and
whether it is a hardship that justifies a variance, and Mr.
Garthwaite answered the City Attorney has stated it has got to be
a legal hardship. Mr. Geil answered that if he cut the building
into two or three short pieces, the width would still not allow
him to build the building. Mr. Garthwaite then stated that Mr.
Geil had come before the Board before for a variance and he had
another plan at that time. He then asked Mr. Geil if he had one
now. Mr. Geil answered no, this is it. Mrs. Murphy then asked
Mr. Geil if it was possible his clients would not purchase the
land if the variance is not granted, and Mr. Geil said they would
appeal to the Council, probably for rezoning. Mr. Garthwaite then
stated he would have to vote No, that special circumstances do not
exist and asked Mrs. Murphy if she had given a vote. Mrs. Murphy
stated she cannot find special circumstances do exist ~nd will have
to vote No.
(b) Str~ct application would deprive the applicant of reasonable
rights. .commonly applicable to other properties in the same
district. Mr. Newell stated since the others are almost all gone,
he would have to say yes on that. MIS. Murphy asked if they were
grandfathered in and Mr. Garthwaite said yes, he believed so,
although some have been built since then, and how they got in with
less he didn't know. He also stated that bordering on Live Oak
there are three homes, and the one right next to this property has
been there quite a while, while one has been very recent. Mr.
Garthwaite then asked if the Board believed strict application
would deprive the applicant, and Mr. Newell answered Yes; Mr.
Moran, Yes; Mrs. Martin, Yes; MrS. Murphy, Yes; Mr. Garthwaite, Yes.
(c) Special circumstances and conditions do not result from the
actions of the applicant. Mr. Garthwaite stated he would have
to vote No on that, as the size of the building Mr. Geil is building
is causing his problems. Mrs. Martin voted Yes; Mr.. Moran Yes; Mr.
Newell stated he believed it did not result from him, as far as the
land was concerned. Mr Garthwaite then said we must go back to the
ground rules and read from the Code Book, "Application of District
Regulations", Section 302.00. He then went on to state Mr. Geil
does have a problem in that the lot is too narrow; it does not
meet the requirements of B-5, minimum lot size of 2 acres; and he
needs the 13 foot variance to meet the 25 foot to any other
properyline. Mr. Garthwaite then stated we will get back to
Section (c), Special circumstances do not result from actions of
the applicant; Mrs. Martin, you are saying Yes, they do result or
do not result? Mrs. Martin answered "Do net'; Mr. Newell stated his
should be "Do not", same thing with Mr. Moran; Mrs. Murphy asked
if they built something on that lot, the widest they could build
would be 45 feet for width if they conformed with the 25 foot set
back. Mr. Garthwaite stated this would not be reasonable if they
allowed for parking. Mrs. Murphy expressed the thought that this
zoning ordinance is kind of confusing and after a discussion on
this point stated it is one thing to say he is building too big a
building and yes, it is his fault; but it is another thing to say
it wouldn't be practical to build anything narrower; then it wouldn't
be his fault. Mr. Garthwaite added, as Mrs. Martin said, the best
use of the land, and it might not be a bad idea to go ahead and
rezone that piece of property, except for the Winn-Dixie and Dollar
Store. Mr. Garthwaite then went on to review what the Board has
done up ,to this point:
Board of Adjustment Minutes
of December 12, 1985 Meeting
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Sub-paragraph (a), Mrs. Murphy said it does not meet. the
requirements; Mr. Moran, Mr. Newell and Mrs. Martin said
it does; Mr. Garthwaite said it does not. Under (b) Strict
applications of the provisions of this ordinance would deprive
the applicant of reasonable rights, we had four Yes's on that,
it does meet the criteria. (c) Special circumstances and
conditions do not result from the actions of the applicant,
Mrs. Martiv says that it does; Mr. Garthwaite said No; Mr.
Newell 'said Yes; Mr. Moran said Yes, and Mrs. Murphy had not
decided on her vote. Mr. Garthwaite said he believes it should
all be rezoned in that area, as he does not believe it is correct.
He also stated to take the whole section and rezone it B-3, which
would do away with that two acre business, too. Mrs. Murphy then
stated on (c) she believes it does not meet the criteria. Mr.
Garthwaite then went on to (d) that granting of the variance will
not cause substantial detriment to the public welfare or impair
the purposes and intent of this ordinance. Mrs. Martin stated
she believes it meets the criteria; Mr. Moran, the same; Mrs. Murphy,
Yes; Mr. Newell believes it will not; Mr. Garthwaite stated he would
have to vote No, we would be impairing the purposes of this ordinance;
(e). . that granting of this variance would constitute a grant of
special privilege that is denied by this ordinance to other lands,
structures, or building in the same district; Mrs. Murphy stated
it would constitute a special privilege, and that it would not
meet the criteria; Mr. Moran said No, also; Mr. Newell said Yes,
because we have others that have the same distance, and that he
would have to say it will not; Mrs. Martin said Yes' arid Mr. Garthwaite
said No.
In regards to the five criteria, Mr. Garthwaite then stated we are
ready for a motion. Mrs. Martin made a motion we approve the request
for a variance and include the sewerage along the southerly property
line as a special condition, with a six inch PVC pipe to the property
line of Mr. Thomas White. Mr. Newell seconded the motion. Mrs. Murphy,
during roll call of the motion, brought to the Board's attention
that if anyone voted No on anyone criteria, they have to vote No
on the Motion, and Mr. Garthwaite agreed. The Motion to approve DID
NOT CARRY 2-3, with Mr. Moran, Mrs. Murphy and Mr. Garthwaite voting
~o. Mr. Garthwaite suggested to Mr. Geil that he see the property gets
rezoned, that whole piece of property. Mr. Geil said he will have to
take some action, as when he sees how this whole thing functions, he
doesn't believe everyone is convinced.
Mr. White then stated we are talkiog about many pieces of property
here, five or six; if he sold his property,25 foot sides, to some-
one else, where would you get your setbacks? He also stated the
problem is rezoning that block. Mr. Garthwaite stated the Council
can rezone, and probably what the Board would recommend to Council,
rather than going through and granting variances on the remaining
property. The secretary was then instructed to send a memo to
Planning and Zoning outlining what happened this evening, and that
the Board would like their consideration in rezoning from B5 to B3,
for better use of land and to conform with the existing uses in that
area, excluding Winn-Dixie to Yelka; if Planning and Zoning approves,
to send it on to Council.
The Board then discussed the procedure for applying for variances
and agreed the public is not aware of the criteria to be met; that
the criteria should be more simplified. Mr. Garthwaite suggested
the Board spend some time on what they would want in the five criteria.
Mr. Garthwaite then explained to Mr. Geil that all five criteria
must be met; that all five must be answered Yes, and that if you say
No to just one of them, you have to vote No. Mr. Geil stated he
still questions this. Mr. Garthwaite went back to the five criteria
question and suggested this be tabled until after the holidays. There
being no further business, Mr. Newell moved the meeting be adjourned,
seconded by Mrs. Martin. The meeting was then adjourned at 8:45 p.m.
Board of Adjustment Minutes
of December 12, 1985 Meeting.
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