09-10-2007 - Special
CITY COUNCIL OF EDGEWATER
SPECIAL MEETING
SEPTEMBER 10, 2007
7:00 P.M.
COMMUNITY CENTER
MINUTES
CALL TO ORDER
Mayor Thomas called the Special Meeting to order at 7:00
p.m. in the Community Center.
ROLL CALL
Mayor Michael Thomas Present
Councilwoman Debra Rogers Present
Councilman Dennis Vincenzi Present
Councilwoman Harriet Rhodes Present
Councilwoman Judith Lichter Present
City Manager Jon Williams Present
City Clerk Susan Wadsworth Present
City Attorney Carolyn Ansay Present
INVOCATION, PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE
There was a silent invocation and pledge of allegiance to
the Flag.
PUBLIC HEARINGS
st
1. 1Reading, Ord No. 2007-O-15, adopting final
millage rate of 5.3740 mills per $1,000 of
assessed taxable value
City Attorney Ansay read Ord. 2007-O-15 into the record.
Finance Director Brett Tanner made a staff presentation.
Councilwoman Rogers stated they had the budget meeting on
Friday and their biggest concern has to do with the minimum
requirement for the Charter reserve. They have not met
that requirement in quite some time. That is first on her
issue list. They need to meet that requirement. They
talked about going between a 5.2 and a 5.37 millage rate,
the difference being approximately $200,000. If they were
to go to a 5.37 and $200,000 is not going to meet their
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requirement. They need to do something now because next
year it is going to be more drastic. There were three
items mentioned in the newspaper. There is an agreement
with FOP, there is the issue going on with the General
Employee Pension Fund and then another area. She believes
they need to discuss those three areas and that is where
they need to get the money from. She doesn’t believe they
need to increase anything in the Utilities or Enterprise
Funds in order to do so. She feels they need to do this
in-house and they need to hold fast at 5.2. She would love
to go to a different level but at this point they are
trying to come down from last year and next year it has to
be lower. Rather than try to do it all next year when they
are going to have other things mandated to them, they need
to do as much as they can now.
Councilman Vincenzi stated he is going to vote for the 5.2
millage rate, not for the 5.374. Only because it is a
small amount of an increase, $200,000 and it isn’t going to
make a bit of a difference. You either have to raise taxes
quite a bit in order to make up the reserves they need and
buy capital equipment and take care of other issues. He
thinks raising it is something nobody on the Council wants
to do. It would be a lot more than 5.374. Seeing it isn’t
going to make that much of a difference, he is going to
vote for 5.2 and continue to try to keep costs under
control.
Councilwoman Rhodes stated she would also vote for the 5.2
however she thinks $200,000 is not going to get them where
they need to be but had they started $200,000 ten years ago
towards a new City Hall, they would be well on their way.
That is less money in the case of an emergency or any
natural disaster. That is less money you have to borrow
and less money you have to pay interest on. If that
emergency happens and they do need to go to the line of
credit, the taxpayers are going to pay for it but they are
going to more pay for the $200,000 then they would have to
pay now. She thinks it is in their best interest to have a
5.37 and she will vote for a 5.2 but she would like to see
a little more wiggle room than they currently have.
Councilwoman Lichter feels this vote may be one of the few
that is unanimous this evening because she also will be
voting for 5.20. However there is work to be done with
that number. She feels some of that work can be
accomplished. They have to really deal with and talk with
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and coordinate with the Police Department that is not
settled. No jobs are to be lost but there has to be a
little more softball and not so much hardball. They also
have to try very hard to do something about those senior
members of the staff that are under a special pension and
they are trying and this will account for some money going
towards, at least for six months, they have to work on the
pension to see if they can get it in line with other
pensions. Most places when you retire, you retire. She
knows that is not what was promised in the beginning but
the anticipation and what has happened is people are
retiring and staying on board because that is what was
written could be done. It has to be looked at. She thinks
when they look at two or three more factors they may see
this money goes further than they thought. If they are
going to budget for more, they are automatically going to
spend more and they aren’t going to work as hard to solve
some of their problems. She also suggested they pray that
a hurricane doesn’t really hit us. So far they have been
lucky this year. She spoke of running into great trouble
in the past with three hurricanes in one season. The worse
scenario is they would have to borrow to cover some of that
money. They did not get back what they anticipated from
FEMA. She thinks she is voting for the 5.20 and she
thinks the lesser is the better number.
Mayor Thomas asked for a show of hands of who knew what the
recommended State roll back was.
Linda Small informed him 5.37.
Mayor Thomas informed her it was 4.89 for this year. The
City Council has the right, if they vote four to one or
unanimous to go to the 5.2 which would give them a year to
get to that 4.89. They are going to be mandated to go
there next year. He also feels they need the wiggle room.
He understands they need some capital items. He stated
when he started the taxes were 6.45, which City Manager
Williams confirmed. Last year it went to 5.7. This year
they are going to 5.2 and next year it is going to be 4.89.
You can see the downward trend. They are going in the
right direction. They have struggled to keep City jobs.
He spoke of not filling positions of people that have left.
They need operating expenses where they can afford police
cars and afford the mowers and stuff. They are trying to
think ahead and provide in the right way.
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The following citizens spoke:
Ferd Heeb
, 115 N. Riverside Drive, asked what the amount of
the required reserve was. Councilwoman Rhodes informed him
$1.9 million. Mr. Heeb asked how much was in there.
Councilwoman Rhodes stated so far in this budget a little
more than $400,000.
Mr. Heeb then asked City Attorney Ansay if the Council
could pass a budget that contradicts the Charter. The
Charter says the City will maintain a reserve equal to 15%
of its General Fund. The Charter is the City’s Bible.
City Attorney Ansay stated the issue related to the Charter
reserve limit has come up before and they have talked about
it generally. She feels there is a major issue that has to
be addressed by Council when you have a Charter requirement
that says you have that reserve limit. They are also bound
by the State law and the recently passed House Bill 1B that
has certain requirements on the City. They could go above
and beyond what they are doing tonight to try to more fully
satisfy that requirement but she thinks obviously they have
to comply with unanimous requirements and try to meet the
intention of the legislation. She thinks there certainly
is an issue and it has been raised before and it is a
serious one that the City has in the Charter that needs to
be a priority for the Council and the City in meeting in
the future. In terms of it being a per say illegal budget
on it’s face, it certainly is not meeting the intent of the
Charter and if challenged she thinks there would be an
issue there. She doesn’t know that there is a challenge
out there now and she encouraged the Council to meet that
goal as quickly as they can recognizing they have exposure.
Mr. Heeb stated he wasn’t up there to create problems and
he knew how hard they were working on the budget and how
hard they were trying to reduce the millage rate. It
concerns him anytime the Council ignores the Charter. This
would be like approving a 60 condo on Riverside Drive where
you have a Charter that says you can’t do that. It’s not
his problem but he wanted the Council to be aware of it.
City Manager Williams referred to Page 9 of the budget
before them tonight regarding the year-to-date actuals.
The expenditures that have been reported to date are a
little over $9.8 million. For all practical purposes, he
rounded it up to $10 million. If they calculate and do the
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percentage they would be around $1.5 million. He went
back to last year’s audited financial statements where they
had cash reserves of about $950,000. For all practical
purposes they would start at $950,000 and add this year’s
projected revenues subtract the expenditures to come up
with the estimated fund balance as it currently relates.
He thinks the challenges they face are that they have
budget to actual variances that will take place between now
and the end of the fiscal year. We have a lot of unknowns.
They are within about 20 days of closing that fiscal year.
They don’t anticipate any major problems. They may be
below Charter but they may finish out this year being in a
very good position and be there going into next year.
There are some gray areas they can’t predict at this point
in time.
Councilwoman Lichter asked City Attorney Ansay about what
City Manager Williams has arranged with the bank in case of
an emergency to borrow. She asked if that would act as a
substitute and that is only to be borrowed if there is a
disaster type thing. She asked if that would count in some
ways as trying to meet, which they have been trying to do
since 2004, that goal. City Attorney Ansay stated if the
question is to meet what is the intent of the Charter, in
other words to have a cushion there in the event of the
storm, she thought that was the intent of staff when they
came before Council to get that line of credit put in
place. In terms of whether that in and of itself would
meet the plain language of the Charter requirement, she
would say probably not.
Councilwoman Rogers stated they just gave them a new budget
tonight and they did a budget on Friday and that was what
they used to make the decisions that they are in the
process of making. The budget they gave them Friday had a
column that showed the percentage of change difference.
The new one does not but the new one, the numbers that are
proposed for 2008 have drastically changed from what they
were using and approving on Friday.
City Manager Williams explained the drastic change is
directly related to the remaining issues he brought forward
on Friday. That would be the pension funding alone. The
budget presented on Friday presented it at under funding.
They went back and changed that from 24% to 48 ¼% and
reflected that back into this budget. That is why they see
the significant change. What that did was that forced the
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Enterprise Funds out of balance. They would then go back
and lower their transfers from the Enterprise Funds to get
those funds back in balance in order to present them with a
balanced budget tonight.
Councilwoman Rogers commented on the City Manager’s budget
going from $415,000 to $429,000. She also mentioned
Leisure Services operations being $843,000 and now it is
$893,000.
City Manager Williams commented on having one employee in
his department that is in the Defined Benefit Plan. In
Leisure Services they would have more employees so the
concentration of employees within each department and the
allocation of expenditures accordingly is what they would
see reflected there.
Councilwoman Rogers stated and this would be based upon the
FOP agreement that they put forth that has not yet been
approved, with the 3% is in there, not the 8% that they
wanted. City Manager Williams explained they went back and
reflected what their discussions were in the Executive
Session and pending the outcome of the first budget
hearing, they will then re-approach the FOP and begin their
final stages of negotiation and go forward from there.
Councilwoman Rogers suggested the next time they give them
this to give them that column that reflects the percentage
change difference.
City Manager Williams explained typically what they do is
they go through the process and they get the workpapers
from an internal perspective and then they start moving the
document into it’s final stages so they can print and pass
it out to the public and go forward from there. That is
what they see without the percentages.
Mayor Thomas informed Mr. Heeb it was a very heated
discussion on Friday and Councilwoman Rhodes scolded them
all for the same thing he did. They are trying to meet
that. There are some unforeseens that could be a plus or
minus. He feels they aren’t looking too bad.
Mr. Heeb stated he understands the problem. His biggest
concern is they are passing a budget that in his mind is
illegal. That budget by the Charter mandates that there be
sufficient revenues and excessive expenditures to maintain
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the reserve. Mayor Thomas informed him he made his point
clear a while ago. He was trying to explain that they did
discuss that.
Councilman Vincenzi stated the Council has passed a budget
that doesn’t comply with the Charter for the last six or
seven years in a row. Every time he asked Hooper whether
they had enough reserves or what their level of reserves
was he would give him a pretty good run around. The
Council has done the same thing for the past five or six
years and that doesn’t make it right. He doesn’t know what
answer they should get. They just don’t have the money to
do it right now.
Carol Ann Stoughton
, 2740 Evergreen Drive, stated Mr. Heeb
is totally correct. They have not operated with the amount
that is required according to the Charter for many years.
All the smoke and clouds have never come out to tell the
people. Four years ago she started asking questions. She
found out what the debt was last year which is $48 million.
She doesn’t know what the debt is today. She feels the
people have not been told the truth. She feels the past
City Manager didn’t tell the truth. She feels City Manager
Williams should have told what their financial status was
all along. It is just smoke and mirrors yet the people
should be informed on a monthly basis in their water bills
what is being spent, how much is there and what is in the
reserve. All of a sudden they have $400,000 in there. She
would like to know have they ever in the past six years met
the Charter requirements.
Councilman Vincenzi stated according to Ken Hooper they
have. Ms. Stoughton stated he is not here though.
Councilwoman Rhodes stated that is not true. Every single
year she scolded Ken Hooper for not meeting the Charter
requirements.
Ms. Stoughton stated they were never apprised of how much
money was in the Charter. She feels that is a sad state of
affairs.
Dominic Capria
, 606 Topside Circle, stated it was mentioned
about hurricanes and that hey have a problem. The solution
is not that big really. All they have to do is like they
always do. Transfer money from the Stormwater Fund. They
have done it before $1 million at a time.
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Mr. Capria stated he wanted to talk about the budget. The
Council has already made up their mind. They said so.
They never even waited to hear what the public had to say.
They made up their mind. That is obvious.
Mr. Capria would like to see the Council check into, not
the City Manager, the Council and come back with answers.
He commented on increases in various departments with
regard to Professional Services, Clothing, Travel & Per
Diem, Freight Services, Printing & Binding, Operating
Supplies, Promotional Activities, Educational Development,
Overtime, and Other Charges and Obligations. He wants the
Council to look into this and come back and give the
citizens answers.
Linda Small
, 1629 Willow Oak Drive, stated she has given
the Council a reference package so they would know what she
was addressing this evening. She referred to an e-mail
that was sent from Bill Lee at the Volusia Sheriff’s office
to Police Chief John Taves on April 3, 2007 regarding law
enforcement services. She commented on this not saying the
VCSO would also be responsible for any liabilities as a
result of lawsuits. She referred to the 2007 proposed
Police budget for Operations. Even if they asked the VCSO
to update their quote that would still give them from the
projected police budget $1,819,217. She believes this
surplus would cover the shortage for the Charter reserves.
She is not saying that is what they need to do. She feels
that is what they need to at least consider.
Mayor Thomas asked for a show of hands of how many people
thought the Sheriff’s Department could match the level of
service they were now getting from our Police Department.
Councilwoman Lichter commented on being in local politics
for over fifty yeas. She knows the answer to that from
experience. She sincerely believes in Home Rule and Home
Rule means you have your own personality, you have your own
Fire Department and your own Police Department but that it
doesn’t mean that on occasion they don’t share a dispatcher
with other cities. She believes everybody has thought
about that kind of thing. She spoke about serving on a
committee where they looked about combining fire. To a
degree they do it but they still keep their own
individuality. They keep Edgewater’s personality. She
feels they need to find another way to fill the hole they
call the deficit. She isn’t going to be told that she
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hasn’t considered those things. She wouldn’t want to part
with our Fire Department, our Police Department or our
trash guys. Two thousand signatures were given to her that
said they wanted our own Trash Department picking up the
trash in this City. It has been considered by her.
Councilman Vincenzi stated originally they told the City
Manager to look into it because that is something they
should do. When they talked about the level of service,
they decided it wasn’t worth it. In order to get the level
of service we get from our Police, he didn’t feel the
estimate from the Sheriff’s office was accurate. The level
of service we get from our Police is excellent and we want
to keep it in town.
Councilwoman Rhodes stated in the e-mail that Ms. Small
read it also lists the staffing they would have for this
City. She thought we had 38 sworn officers. Police Chief
Taves informed her we have 32 sworn officers. Councilwoman
Rhodes stated the way she counts it, there would be 12
officers. She then spoke of comparing apples to apples and
having equal personnel and equal response times and having
all their questions answered and then tell her what the
cost would be. It also says that this is capped so it can
only go up 5% every year but the contracts are for three
years and it says at the end of three years any raises in
personnel costs above 5% will be caught up. You could be
hit with a big bill at the end of three years. There are
too many variables where they could come back to the City
and it could end up costing them a lot more than what it
costs them right now. Until all the other questions are
answered this is something she would not even consider.
This does not satisfy her need for equal comparison.
Mike Visconti
, 316 Pine Breeze Drive, asked on his property
taxes how much money per year he would be saving with this
budget. Mayor Thomas didn’t think they could do that
because of the appraisal. City Manager Williams stated
they could if they knew his current appraised value.
Mr. Visconti stated he got his notice for the proposed tax
for 2008 and his savings is $27. If his savings is only
$27 and they divide all the money up, whatever the savings
is, in his estimation he would rather see the City keep his
part of the $27 and have the City use the money where it is
more usable instead of losing jobs or cutting services. If
they did this, the City would benefit by $800,000. He
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would like to see the City have $800,000 in one hand then
all the citizens have $3, $20 or $47.
Councilwoman Lichter stated the bill isn’t finished. That
is a suggested. The County may even change and the City’s
is going to change a little bit. It’s not quite firmed up
yet. Mr. Visconti feels it is not feasible to save that
much money. He has been in the City for almost 14 years
and he has seen the City grow. He congratulated all of the
City Councils and Mayors in the past for the job they have
done in Edgewater.
Jeanne DelNigro
, 3130 Tamarind Drive, stated we have the
greatest Police Department and the greatest Fire
Department. They cannot replace any of them. If they go
out of this City and take in Volusia County Sheriff’s, they
will not get the service they need. She asked if they were
more interested in saving money or lives.
Councilwoman Lichter stated they haven’t even suggested it.
Ms. DelNigro stated well it was brought up. Councilwoman
Lichter stated not by them.
Tamara Coone
, 472 Palmetto Street, stated the cities are in
the business to sell water & sewer to pay for police &
fire. They cannot get rid of the police or fire. They
have to have them in-house. What they have to get rid of
is some of the capital improvements they want such as City
Hall. They don’t have the money. The reason the City
thinks the roll back rate is so important is because that
is what they are mandated. What is so important is the
assessed values. Because the assessed values have
increased and the City thinks they can increase the roll
back rate to what they are mandated, it is just wrong.
They have more money because of the increased assessed
values and should be able to reduce the millage rate, keep
the fire and stop wasting their money.
Jim Sylvester
, 2209 Orange Tree Drive, feels the answer to
the budget problems is to expand the tax base by welcoming
small business and industry into our City. We have
hundreds of acres of land that is zoned for commercial use,
for business use that is sitting, growing in weeds. They
need to actively go out and bring small businesses and
small industrial operations into this City. That will
expand the tax base and solve all the problems.
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Richard Burgess
, 2724 Juniper Drive, stated they want to
make sure that people like him and others who were affected
where their 2004 taxes were $1,200 and for 2008 they are
looking at $2,800. He has a small piece of property that
has been in his family for fifty years. In 2004 the taxes
were 600 unimproved. It is going to be $3,000. He got no
pay increase. He also agreed that businesses have to come
in and that is the greatest thing. He brought a small
business here from Virginia. He collected $1 million the
past three years from attorneys all over the country and
spend it in Edgewater with six employees. He would like to
triple the size of his business. He would like to see more
information and small industrial oriented businesses get
here and he is going to make the Economic Development Board
miserable because he is going to ask to join to see what
they can do about that.
Mayor Thomas asked if anybody wanted to address his
comments about his taxes going from $600 to $3,000 and what
percentage the City is getting. He thought Mr. Visconti
would know. Mr. Visconti informed him at that time, it was
74% went to the county and 26% came to Edgewater. He
didn’t think it was fair. He thinks what they should do is
all the Mayors should get together and at least get half of
that money instead of going through the County. Half of it
should stay in Edgewater.
Due to there being no further comments, Mayor Thomas closed
the public hearing and entertained a motion.
Councilwoman Lichter moved to approve setting a millage
rate of 5.20, second by Councilman Vincenzi
.
The MOTION CARRIED 5-0
.
st
2. 1 Reading, Ord. No. 2007-O-16, adopting final
budget for fiscal year 2007/2008
City Attorney Ansay read Ord. 2007-O-16 into the record.
Finance Director Brett Tanner made a staff presentation.
There were no Council comments at this time.
Mayor Thomas asked for citizen comments.
The following citizens spoke:
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Chris Balmer
, 148 William Street, stated he was confused
how the budget is still in order if they just went lower
than what was proposed at 5.37. Councilwoman Rogers stated
they changed the budget to work with the 5.20. Mr. Balmer
asked if the budget they had in front of them this whole
time was based on 5.20. Councilman Vincenzi stated they
told them last Friday to design it around 5.20 but he
wanted 5.37.
Bill Glasser
, 1703 Needle Palm Drive, stated as he walks
around beautiful Edgewater he notices a lot of folks have
businesses in garages or in a shed behind their houses. He
sees a lot of no name trucks doing business in Edgewater.
He asked how they know if these folks are licensed to do
business in Edgewater if they don’t have any identification
on their vehicle. He commented on how it was done in West
Virginia.
Mr. Glasser presented City Manager Williams with a piece of
paper. He stated the first item was from last year’s
budget outlined in green. He was wondering what that line
item was. On the next page, it is a list of all the impact
fees the City got for last year. He asked if they collect
a sidewalk impact fee and if they do, why doesn’t it show
up on the list. If they do, how much money is in that
fund?
City Manager Williams agreed to do some research and get
back to Mr. Glasser. Mayor Thomas informed him since it
was brought up in the public, they would answer it at the
next meeting.
Mr. Glasser asked if there were any thoughts.
Councilwoman Lichter stated certain home businesses are
allowed and certain ones are not. She agreed some people
may have businesses in their garages.
Mr. Glasser stated his question was do they have their City
license and if they are contributing. Councilwoman Lichter
felt they were illegally doing it. Mr. Glasser thought so
too. He mentioned Joe the taxpayer underwriting some of
these businesses.
Matthew Negedly
, 540 Coral Trace Blvd, stated build trust
or go home. What is interesting is a proposed balanced
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September 10, 2007
budget is being voted on right now and the Fire Chief
doesn’t know if the City Manager’s proposals for cuts in
his departments is included or not. He thinks they are
trying to balance the budget on the backs of the
firefighters. In May he wrote a letter to Council and City
Manager Williams responded asking him to come to the June
th
9 meeting. He wrote “my goal for that day is to find out
exactly what the citizens of this community are willing to
pay for in terms of level of services.” The overwhelming
message that day was don’t cut public safety. The Council
agreed and let them know they too did not want cuts in
public safety. He feels a little betrayed because there
are cost cutting measures potentially the Fire Chief
doesn’t even know in the Fire Department that will reduce
their level of service in the Fire Department and they
don’t even know and it is on the table he thinks. There is
only so much pie he understands and it is all about how
many slices they are going to cut and how big are the
slices. That is why they elected them to make tough
decisions. They have asked for this position to make tough
decisions. He is asking them to keep essential services.
The Charter doesn’t say the City shall exist to be an
employer of ex-number of employees. It says we will
provide these municipal services. Our City currently falls
short of the national standard in response deployment
models for the Fire Department. They aren’t going toward
the national standards, they are going away from the
national standard. The proposal is that they won’t
backfill firefighters who are on military leave, vacation,
injury leave, whatever. They will down the number of
firefighters on their fire trucks with this proposal. That
is disappointing. They ask him to wire his house according
to that standard. They buy the fire trucks according to
that standard, the air packs, the gear but they aren’t
following the standards on the wiring in this room or the
th
response model for firefighters. On July 5, his parents
home burned in the City of Edgewater. The brave men and
women of the Edgewater Fire Department responded and
contained it to the garage. This proposal will make
Edgewater Fire Department an exterior firefighting
department. They are taking men and women off of these
rigs. It’s a shame. If this proposal was in affect, on
th
July 5 the story of his parent’s house could be very
different. They aren’t proposing to take men off of the
garbage trucks, why fire trucks? Build trust or go home.
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Councilwoman Lichter stated she was called by someone
connected with the Fire Department and she asked City
Manager Williams what Mr. Negedly was stating and she
didn’t believe it was quite all the facts. Every detail
has not been worked out. The way he explained it to her
was that where there is normally three on a vehicle if one
is sick or has to be absent the third won’t be put on at
that moment but the third is in reserve and the moment that
signal starts the third will be put on so three will
attend. She thinks the detail might have to be worked out.
It isn’t a given yet. There is no way that what he is going
to propose or what they would approve in the end could
jeopardize anyone’s house. He has to plan to try to put a
little plug in for a half hour and save a little money.
Every department is going to have to save a little money.
They certainly aren’t getting rid of firemen or cutting
that. Maybe City Manager Williams could explain it or
maybe City Manager Williams and Fire Chief Barlow haven’t
worked out the particulars yet and Mr. Negedly is jumping
the gun. She wasn’t sure.
Gigi Bennington
, 121 Virginia Street, stated she has
participated in quite a few budgets and what she didn’t
understand about this is how they could pass a balanced
budget when they have questions that aren’t answered such
as the Fire Department, whether the Fund Balance Reserve is
going to meet the Charter. She feels this whole process
that they have gone through has been shoved on them so fast
and there are so many things hanging over their heads that
may or may not take place in the balance and that is what
they are being asked to pass judgment on. If she was on
the Council she wouldn’t vote for it. She asked if they
had ever heard of vicarious liability. That means anything
they vote on can come back and they can be sued
individually for their votes. If they get the City in
trouble for a vote that they take recommended by staff and
somebody decides to go after the City they can be named
individually. She wouldn’t put herself in the position
that they are in right now based on what she has been
hearing about this budget.
Melanie Wagner
, 1614 Orange Tree Drive, stated Mr.
Negedly’s comments are right on. She is a local
firefighter. Not in the City but she does live here. She
expects the Fire Department to be able to provide the same
level of service she works for. To only put two people on
the apparatus is going backward. She commented on there
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Council Special Meeting
September 10, 2007
being questions the people need to know. When they commit
to an exterior fire attack because they only have two
people on that apparatus and it says two in two out, that
means two people inside and two people outside. They don’t
have two out. They are already getting people from New
Smyrna because the standard is fourteen people on that
scene in eight minutes. They don’t have fourteen people.
To reduce the level, she can’t even imagine the liability
they will come under when it comes down to something
happening to the people that try to protect you and the
State comes in to investigate and they didn’t meet the
national standard.
Councilman Vincenzi stated there are other things to
consider besides just the fact that the City Manager
decided it might be a good idea to cut the personnel on a
truck. What Ms. Wagner was quoting was not law, it’s a
recommendation. It is a suggestion that maximizes safety
for the firefighter and optimizes the opportunity for good
service and good response but no business in the world
automatically calls someone in for overtime when personnel
call in sick or take vacation. That is wrong. If the Fire
Department is operating under that assumption then
something is wrong. Either the overtime has to be cut out,
the personnel have to be reduced or they have to hire more
people. Overtime is not the answer. Overtime means you
are getting paid time and a half for services that someone
else would normally be getting paid straight time for.
That is costing the taxpayers a lot of money. There are a
lot of solutions to this problem and they are talking about
one potential one. He got a call from a firefighter in
town that seemed very cooperative, very open-minded and
very receptive to sitting down and talking to the City
Manager and City Council about various solutions. That is
what they need. They don’t need people telling them how
they are going to be risking people’s lives. They know the
potential liabilities and they are looking for a solution.
If you can’t offer solutions and can only offer criticism,
he really doesn’t want to hear from them.
Debby Harrison
, stated she is not a firefighter in this
City but she has used 911 calls twice before and when you
call 911 it is a disaster. It may be small but it is a
disaster. She presented examples of unforeseen things that
can happen in a disaster. She is concerned that there is a
budget here. This stuff is coming down. She asked what
are they doing to educate the people out there of what
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Council Special Meeting
September 10, 2007
their decisions are and how it will truly affect the
public. She questioned how many people knew what ALS is
and what would happen if they don’t have it. There is a
lot of stuff that people are not aware of. She understands
they should become educated but there should be more
education done to inform the people of what all these
consequences of all the decisions are for their safety.
She is concerned of her safety, her children’s safety and
everybody’s safety in this City.
Mayor Thomas closed the public hearing and entertained a
motion.
Councilwoman Lichter moved to approve Ord. 2007-O-16,
adopting the final budget, second by Councilman Vincenzi
.
The MOTION CARRIED 5-0
.
ADJOURNMENT
Mayor Thomas entertained a motion to adjourn the
Special Meeting. Councilwoman Rhodes moved to adjourn the
Special Meeting. The meeting adjourned at 8:05 p.m.
Minutes submitted by:
Lisa Bloomer
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Council Special Meeting
September 10, 2007