09-24-2007 - Special
CITY COUNCIL OF EDGEWATER
SPECIAL MEETING
SEPTEMBER 24, 2007
7:00 P.M.
COMMUNITY CENTER
MINUTES
CALL TO ORDER
Mayor Thomas called the Special Meeting to order at 7:00
p.m. in the Community Center.
ROLL CALL
Mayor Michael Thomas
Councilwoman Debra Rogers
Councilman Dennis Vincenzi
Councilwoman Harriet Rhodes
Councilwoman Judith Lichter
City Manager Jon Williams
City Clerk Susan Wadsworth
City Attorney Carolyn Ansay
Present
Present
Present
Present
Present
Present
Present
Present
INVOCATION, PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE
There was a silent invocation and pledge of allegiance to
the Flag.
Mayor Thomas announced that they have new carpet and new
chairs in the Community Center and they would like to take
care of them as best as they can. Only drinks with lids
will be permitted in this facility.
PUBLIC HEARINGS
1. 2nd Reading on Ord. 2007-0-15, adopting final millage
rate of 5.20 mills per $1,000 of assessed taxable
value
City Attorney Ansay read Ord. 2007-0-15 into the record.
Finance Director Brett Tanner made a staff presentation.
Mayor Thomas opened the public hearing and asked for
Council comments.
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Council Special Meeting
September 24, 2007
Councilwoman Lichter stated she had a thought concerning
some of the way the public has responded to the Council and
directed some remarks to them. She thinks everyone should
try to understand that she is a senior. She needs the fire
and police services as much as anyone else. She is a
citizen and a taxpayer and she cares. She is doing the
best she can with what the State has directed them to do.
She has the same needs, the same feelings and she is trying
the very best she can in an honest manner. That is what
she has done for the City for ten years. When they talk to
each other, she tries to give them the utmost respect. 99%
of the public gives the Council the utmost respect. The
other 1% makes it like they are not human and not caring.
She knows they all may differ on things but she really does
care and she thinks she speaks for her fellow Councilpeople
as well.
The following citizens spoke:
Dominic Capri a , 606 Topside Circle, stated he is also a
senior citizen. Maybe Councilwoman Lichter or others
misunderstood what he said at the last meeting. He said
there was room for lowering the tax rate and he gave
examples. He thinks the City Manager did a good job on it.
He wants to make the point he is also a senior citizen and
all he was trying to say is the Council should have done
more homework than they did because it is already proven
that if they did, the tax rate would have been lowered.
Linda Small, 1629 Willow Oak Drive, stated that the State
mandated roll back rate is 4.89%. She understands that the
5.2% is -3.2% over the roll back rate. Even though the
legal counsel has advised them that because they had the
appropriate vote there may not be a penalty for failing to
reach the State mandated roll back rate, if the
Constitutional Amendment passes in January the 4.89% and
the 5.2 the difference 3.2 will be right off the top of
next year's budget for failing to reach the mandated roll
back rate so they begin next year minus 3.2%. It is stated
that way in the legislation to keep Councilmembers from
year over year not achieving the roll back rate by virtue
of their majority vote. She thinks probably it is going to
come to a legal challenge at some point but she feels
certain that had they focused on the 4.89 as much as they
focused on the 15% reserve to comply with the Charter that
they perhaps could have also achieved the 4.89% mandated
roll back rate.
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Council Special Meeting
September 24, 2007
Carol Ann Stoughton, 2740 Evergreen Drive, stated she
thinks now is a good time to congratulate the fact that
they went in and proved there was money in different funds
and now the police and firemen don't have to be threatened
with the loss of their jobs that they are finally proving
that there are moneys there and they are finally starting
to show up.
Mayor Thomas commented on what Ms. Small said.
Mayor Thomas stated he was in a VCOG meeting at 5 p.m. and
one of the candidates, a member of the School Board, got an
e-mail that said a Leon County judge had ruled that ballot
amendment unconstitutional. He asked if anybody heard
that. Councilwoman Rogers stated it is true, the property
tax. They aren't going to have it on the ballot.
Mayor Thomas stated but that's not to say the Legislature
doesn't have Plan B and Plan C. Councilwoman Rhodes stated
but will they agree on it. Mayor Thomas stated they had
until October 29th to do that.
Mike Visconti, 316 pine Breeze Drive, congratulated
everyone, the Council and City Manager Williams, and anyone
else who was involved with the new carpet and new chairs in
the community Center.
Mr. Visconti stated he looked up his tax record since 2004
and at that time the rate was 6.4 mills and the rate went
down. According to his estimation and what he pays in
taxes, he saved $81 a year, which is less than $1.50 a
week. When they lower the tax and divide the money up with
the citizens of this City, the tax rate is so small, maybe
$20. If they didn't lower the rate and kept it as it was,
the City would have more money, it would be one lump sum of
$800,000 instead of him saving $1.50 a week. He feels they
should look into that in the future. They can't do much
about the property tax. He suggested doing away with it.
Instead they should have a State tax, and maybe raise the
State tax to 8% and let everyone pay their share of the
taxes. The property owners wouldn't have to be burdened
every year with the property tax. He feels they should
look out for the City and the City's interest.
Mayor Thomas closed the public hearing and entertained a
motion.
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Council Special Meeting
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Councilwoman Rogers moved to approve the second reading of
Ord. 2007-0-15, second by Councilman vincenzi.
The MOTION CARRIED 5 - 0 .
2. 2nd Reading on Ord. 2007-0-16, adopting final budget
for fiscal year 2007/2008
City Attorney Ansay read Ord. 2007-0-16 into the record.
City Manager Williams commented on how they have arrived at
the final budget. They believe if everything comes through
as they planned they are projecting their cash reserves
will be at the minimum level of $1.9 million or exceed the
minimum level by $121,000. He commented on a meeting he
had with the Directors on September 14th and began a last
push to achieve this minimum requirement for the Charter as
it is specified. They set a goal at the Town Hall meeting
of a 10% reduction over FY 2007. When they met with the
departments, they removed the increase contribution to fund
the general employees defined benefit plan and compared the
proposed 2008 figures to the 2007 to determine which
departments were successful in actually achieving a 10%
reduction as they originally identified in the Town Hall
meeting. Of those they went back to the department heads
and said for those that achieve the 10% they said thank you
for your hard work. For those that did not achieve the 10%
reduction, they sent them back to the drawing board and
asked them to think about how they would achieve those
reductions over the weekend and they would meet on December
17th and that they were to reduce those reductions in
writing so he could provide them to Council and the public.
They meet on Monday. The Department Heads submitted their
requests. Some of those recommendations involve the
elimination of some very high profile positions. They left
the meeting and said go ahead and start notifying the
employees. It should have been communicated to them that
this was subject to the final decision that would be made
tonight. The Departments did what they were asked to do.
They began to notify their employees. He went home and
pondered the consequences of some of the recommendations.
He looked at the numbers again and scheduled a meeting for
Tuesday morning so he and the Finance Director could sit
down and go over the proposed numbers again. He asked him
to confirm the ending cash balance. They looked at the
actual request for reductions from each department and
began addressing some of the high profile positions with
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Council Special Meeting
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the department heads and informed him he didn't know if he
could support it, and that the citizens and Council would
not support this. They set some new targets and sent that
out the door with the Department Heads and informed them
they had a deadline to get the final budget in place and
that they had to advertise it in accordance with TRIM
compliance. While it may have been a little over anxious
in notifying some of the employees, the end result is that
they were able to come back to the table and not recommend
that some of those high profile positions be cut. They
have before them tonight actually how and whose department
the cuts were made from and the dollar amounts each
department had to come up with. They had to add back in
the requirement to fund the General Employees Defined
Benefit Plan. He commented on a meeting he participated in
with the General Employees Defined Benefit Plan. He feels
confident telling the Council and the citizens that
modifications will be forthcoming. Right now Principal is
drafting those modifications. They believe there will be a
contribution towards cash reserves of about $222,000. He
commented on the $601,000 that each Department was
requested to come up with. The Department Directors were
present if they had any questions.
Mayor Thomas stated he heard it was like pulling teeth.
City Manager Williams informed him it was tough. He was
very proud of the Department Heads and employees for coming
forward for making suggestions and recommendations. There
hasn't been anything easy about the budget process. The
topics that they have had to address are highly
controversial and in some cases there is no way they can
approach individuals without being offensive or coming off
as somewhat threatening. They had to respond. Situational
management if you will. He commented on the economy and
what has happened in a short period of time. He feels this
group of managers has responded to that. If they come out
of this fiscal year increasing their contribution to cash
reserves with the way the economy has reacted this year, he
feels that is impressive.
Councilwoman Lichter stated the only thing she might
suggest in the circumstances that happened this past week,
is after City Manager Williams talked to the department
heads and ex-amount had to be cut from that particular
budget, maybe instead of right away informing an individual
that that was the person that would get the ax, that it
might have been a little more diplomatic and not so heart
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September 24, 2007
wrenching if they just sent out to their employees or met
with their employees and let them know it looked like they
might have to cut this much out of the budget and they were
going to try to do everything they could to work around
people but that they weren't saying it wasn't going to
happen. It happened and in the end it didn't have to
happen. It is a heart-wrenching thing to think you are
going to be laid off and then you're not laid off. She
felt they could handle that in a more diplomatic manner.
City Manager Williams agreed 100%. It's an emotional
roller coaster. There is a lot of passion that goes into
putting the numbers together and trying to make projections
for next year and they walk away from every situation with
an experience and something to learn from it and they will
certainly do something different in the future.
Councilwoman Rhodes stated she spoke to City Manager
Williams more this week than she has since he became City
Manager. This has been exceedingly difficult. She knows
what it's like to have politics and other people decide
your fate. Very often you don't have any input. Her job
is not to be a policeman's wife. Her job is to represent
the taxpayers and to do their will. When it is all said
and done the taxpayers pay the freight for all of them and
that is who they need to answer to at every level in this
City. There is a saying. Put your treasure where your
heart is. When the taxpayers decided the amount of tax
they were going to pay by virtue of the whole process
through the Legislature, that is their treasure. They
decided what services they can offer to this community.
While every department had the luxury of just concentrating
on their department and seeing the things that are
happening within their department and their lives, sitting
there she has to look at all of the departments. When the
water is bad, the water department is who you want. If you
are being robbed the police department is who you want. If
your house is on fire, the Fire Department is the most
important to you at that time but all these departments
have to work together to make the City function and to
provide the services the taxpayers pay for. Are they
paying for less services? It might end up that way but
that is what the taxpayers chose so that is what they have
to do. She is fully conscious that these are people's
lives and that money comes out of your pocket and when you
work for a city it stinks because you don't make much to
begin with so you take some away and you really don't make
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Council Special Meeting
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much. She understands that but the person in Finance
doesn't make much, the Firemen doesn't make much, the
Policemen doesn't make such. How do you decide which one
is more important? Circumstances decide that for you. If
it was left up to her, it's anybody that their job requires
them to give their life for somebody else. That is the
most important job in the world, be it a solider, a
policeman, or a fireman. That is their job everyday. But
they aren't the only ones in the City. They are the ones
they see and they are very valued but there are so many
other people that work in the City for the Water
Department, the Finance Department, Personnel. Personnel
is down to one person now. People think Parks & Recreation
is kind of frivolous and not that big of a deal but when
the grass in the medians gets up so high and this town
looks like a dump then Parks & Recreation is going to be
very important. She feels City Manger Williams and the
Department Heads, employees did a wonderful job. She
thinks they cut it to the bone. Her heart goes out to the
people that are affected by this. If any taxpayer wants to
give more money so she can increase benefits or increase
salaries, she would be more than happy to do it. The money
they get is the money they have to spend and this is the
most fair and the most economical way to do it in her
opinion. They talk about Economic Development and raising
revenues in the City and they need that more than anything
but they cut Economic Development's budget 90%. Unless
they are going to put some money behind it, it isn't going
to happen. She feels in the coming year they need to focus
on what they need to do to make this happen and then they
need to do it so they don't have to do this anYmore.
Councilman Vincenzi feels this has been one of the most
challenging years he has had on the Council. They have
people in the audience all the time that say they did okay,
and could have done more. He thinks they have looked at
each department and put pressure on Department Heads more
than they should have and they have done a decent job. He
thinks one of the things that nobody on Council wanted to
see was anybody lose their job, especially in key vital
positions like public safety. There is a balance that
needs to be met every year and this year happened to be one
of the roughest he has ever encountered. He feels they did
the best shot they could. He was talking to Mr. Visconti
the other day in Publix and he gave him the same speech he
gave, which he thinks is great. He admires people like him
that says instead of lowering taxes and it only makes a
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difference of a dollar or two a week to go ahead and raise
them and keep them up there. He told him for every time he
gets up there, he gets a call after the meetings from some
poor person in town that can't afford their mortgage
payments anymore and they ask him how they can raise the
taxes when they can't afford food or their mortgage. You
have to find a balancing act somehow and he feels they
tried to do the best they could on Council. He thinks he
is done pressuring people for this year, except City
Manager Williams. He is happy with the budget the way it
is. He thinks this is a good budget and one of the first
times they really had 15% reserve cash as a reserve. That
isn't to say that money won't be dipped into later on in
the year if things like on-going contract negotiations
don't go the way they are supposed to or other things
happen. It's nice they have the reserve. The Charter says
they need it and they should have it. He wants to see the
budget go through and to get the City moving again.
Councilwoman Rogers stated there has been a lot in the
newspaper regarding the Fire Department. Her big concern
is that they are to be a team. The Fire Department and the
City Manager and the Police Department and City Manager.
That is a communication. She feels communication has been
broken down with the Fire Department at this point. When
she looks at the numbers from the first and second public
hearings, the night of their first public hearing they were
given a budget as soon as they sat there and it was a
different budget. The Friday before the first public
hearing they received a budget for their budget workshop.
Between that Friday night and the first public hearing
numbers changed. Fortunately she had at the first public
hearing a copy of her budget. She asked a question at that
time why specifically the Fire Department, between the Fire
Administration and Fire Operations, numbers went up $85,000
and then she asked why the Police Department numbers went
up $185,000. Now when they can see the comparison between
the first and second public hearings, it shows the Police
Department shaved off approximately another $50,000 and in
her recollection they still received a net gain of
$135,000. The Fire Department went up $80,000. They are
losing $355,000 in Fire Administration and Fire Operations.
The net gain is a loss of $275,000. If they are going to
increase police by $185,000, if they would have done the
same for the Fire Department they would only be dealing
with a negative $175,000 below instead of the amount they
are dealing with. She understands there has been all these
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issues about overtime. She asked Fire Chief Barlow if he
had spoken previously about this at any time to the Finance
Director or City Manager. She feels it seems they had to
do a lot in a short period of time and that is a huge
amount of money to take a hit this fast, this hard.
Fire Chief Barlow stated he has been communication with the
Finance Director and City Manager as far as some of the
cuts and budget adjustments. Councilwoman Rogers asked
Fire Chief Barlow when it was first brought to his
attention that he would have a cut this large. Fire Chief
Barlow stated he has been working with the City Manager and
Finance Director through the whole process along with the
other Department Directors in trying to extrapolate as much
savings as they can in the budget. The first largest cut
was on Friday. They were requested to have additional cuts
and to present back to the City Manager on Monday.
Councilwoman Rogers stated they were given a memo where a
memo was given to Fire Chief Barlow on September 19th. She
asked if that was the memo and subject he was talking
about, the alternative to the firefighter scheduling. City
Manager Williams stated they met Tuesday morning after he
met with Bob and said here is the alternative schedule that
was brought forward for them to evaluate that with that
memo attached from that perspective. Fire Chief Barlow
stated he provided that packet to him on Tuesday and asked
him to evaluate and respond back. He is in the process of
putting together the response.
Councilwoman Rogers stated Fire Chief Barlow is still
working on response and they have just approved the millage
and now they are approving a budget. So too late more or
less. The money is being cut. She asked if she was
hearing this correctly. Fire Chief Barlow informed her if
she was talking about the Fire Department budget he
believed it was being established and he assumed there
would be other opportunities for budget adjustments that
would probably be brought back before Council.
Councilwoman Rogers asked him about adjustments to increase
or decrease the budget. Fire Chief Barlow explained he ran
several different scenarios and he couldn't decrease his
budget anymore without any further reduction in services.
Councilwoman Rogers stated she wasn't asking for any
further. She feels it is a lot to do in a short period of
time and the firemen are very concerned for their jobs and
the longevity of everything in the department. Fire Chief
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Council Special Meeting
September 24, 2007
Barlow stated that was part of the discussion he and City
Manager Williams had on Tuesday. He provided additional
funds if he could assure that all firemen had their job and
that he has.
Councilwoman Rogers asked Fire Chief Barlow how he felt
about going into the next year with the numbers he has for
his department. Fire Chief Barlow stated the budget that
is presented there has no overtime backfill, which means if
any employee is off it will reduce the daily staffing from
the current eight they have now. They pledge to do the
best they can with the resources provided to them.
Councilwoman Rogers stated her concern and her hope is that
they don't have the same scenario next year so they need to
take steps now so they aren't in the same position with the
Fire Department next year and having to give it to him at
the end and having him push and go backwards and forwards.
They have to be more proactive. She encouraged him to
communicate with the City Manager and provide the Council
with copies of any communication as the year progresses and
as his budget is modified. Fire Chief Barlow stated he
wasn't going to discard the multiple renditions of budget
he has this year and he agreed to provide those as that
occurs.
Councilwoman Rogers expressed her concern with the Leisure
Administration and Leisure Operations. She asked if the
shuffleboard courts were included in this. She was
informed no.
Councilwoman Rogers then commented on the 89.5% reduction
in Economic Development. She understands there was a large
line item removed for the membership for the Southeast
Volusia Chamber of Commerce but they are not putting out
the correct message to the Economic Development Board and
these business people that are trying really hard to bring
business into the City. It may not look as if they have
succeeded every year because they can't quantify it but
they have struggled and worked very hard.
Councilwoman Rogers asked Bob Lott, 'Chairman for the
Economic Development Board, what the Board could do with
$1,600. Mr. Lott informed her they could do one direct
mailing to their own businesses. He thought there was some
confusion last week. The largest piece of his budget is
the Chamber of Commerce contribution and people may think
Page 10 of22
Council Special Meeting
September 24, 2007
it's just like a membership fee. They do a tremendous
amount with the Economic Development Board. They help them
with the County. He put together a package for each one of
the Councilmembers to explain to them this isn't just a
membership so they can go to a BRA or a ribbon cutting.
There is a tremendous amount of effort going into tax
reform. They were in Deland and Tallahassee and he didn't
see anyone from the Council in Tallahassee. He feels it is
very important to communicate with their State government.
This is what the Chamber does for them so the Council
doesn't have to go. He recalled someone saying this is the
toughest year they have seen as far as the budget and the
taxes. There are only three things they can do. Increase
the tax base, increase the millage rate or cut the
services. It's that simple. They really need to send a
better message out to the State and the Nation that we are
a place people would want to bring their business and their
families. They are asking him to go out and get high-end
jobs. They don't want the low-end jobs. He asked where he
is going to put them and where they are going to live.
They need to build that infrastructure in this City. It's
not just about asking businesses to come. It's about
developing this City to make it a place that people want to
live. Once they paint that picture, then they have to go
and tell the story. They have an awful lot of work to do
and he feels they are going a little bit backwards.
Councilwoman Rogers asked how many people in the audience
think they should put the extra $15,000 back into the
Economic Development Board so the City can still be a
member of the Chamber of Commerce.
City Manager Williams then commented on the cash reserve
requirement in the City Charter. He again commented on the
excess above the minimum of $121,000. They have talked at
length about their emerging capital needs, the lack of
proper funding to begin for the replacement of the very
method by which the services are provided such as cop cars,
fire trucks, lawn mowers, etc. That is what the $121,000
was targeted as. They could take that money, after they
have adopted the budget, they can do an amendment and put
the money back in the line code for Economic Development
and the Chamber dues, which he feels are extremely
warranted at this time. They are going to start messing
with the excess moneys that they need to fund for their
emerging capital needs. That is his recommendation. It is
certainly something that could be done with relative ease.
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Council Special Meeting
September 24, 2007
Councilwoman Rhodes feels Economic Development gives them a
return on that investment. City Manager Williams agreed
100%.
Councilwoman Lichter stated no one knows more than she does
how the Chamber has helped them. To change that right now
she feels would be disastrous. They have 22,000 people in
this City and they are asking how many people want to put
their hands up in this room to increase a particular thing
on the agenda. There are things they could do to help
small businesses in this community and it wouldn't cost
them a nickel. It has to do with more efficiency with the
permitting process. There are things that can be done
without spending money. She feels that is important and
the Chamber is important but what is more important is what
they have to weigh at the moment. They do not want to lay
off a person at all so you can't do everything when you are
told to roll back. Things can be done to help small
businesses and businesses without it cost very much money
on their own for the minute.
Mr. Lott stated he didn't come up there to ask the Council
to change this tonight. The Chamber is going to be there
for the Council. They aren't going to abandon them. They
are part of the community of Southeast Volusia County. All
they are asking is if they find a way and find the money in
the budget down the road, they would like to make sure they
don't forget what they do.
City Manager Williams commented on removing the estimated
figures and changing them to actual numbers as they
finalize this fiscal year. They may find out very shortly
that the $1.2, that they were a bit conservative and that
it actually is a $1.3 number. As they start finalizing
some of those numbers throughout the fiscal year he thinks
the opportunity exists for them to keep in mind some of the
items they have identified to remove from the budget. They
would like to keep the opportunity to keep the lines of
communication open with Mr. Lott and the Chamber in an
effort to come forward and find the necessary funding.
Councilwoman Rogers feels it is very important, especially
with the development that is going to be coming into this
City, the developer that is west of 1-95. She asked Mr.
Lott if he has spent any time with Mr. Mears or talked to
him regarding the proposed development that is going to be
west of 1-95. Mr. Lott informed her absolutely.
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September 24, 2007
Councilwoman Rogers was concerned with the people that are
here, specifically trades people and small businesses that
don't want to travel out of the area to work. What
Councilwoman Lichter said as far as her asking the
audience, it is kind of unique because that question has
been asked of the audience many times and never has it been
picked on as it has been until tonight. They have not had
any thing come about in this City to bring in what she was
suggesting. It's not something that happens over night.
She believes the people on the Council have worked very
hard to push and do things. It is a process. The fruit of
their labor is going to show up in the next couple of
years. She doesn't think this amount of money is that
much. Last year they did two things that she voted no on.
One was when they gave $12,000 to ACT and then they find
out later a building gets sold and they are merging areas
because they don't have enough funding. Was our money well
spent, absolutely not? She then commented on the $15,000
that was spent to do surveys in the City. She would rather
see the money spent within the City so they can help drum
up businesses and networking and things like that.
Councilwoman Rogers would like to see that line item added
back so they can fund the Chamber of Commerce one more
year. She informed Mr. Lott to communicate to her.
Councilwoman Rogers commented on being busy and the
different meetings that are attended by the Mayor and
Councilmembers. After every couple of years people get
moved around and maybe it is time a Councilperson gets
involved with the Economic Development Board so they can
help drum in businesses into this area. That is what is
going to help with the tax base, not the developments. Not
like a business is.
Mr. Lott stated as always any Councilmember is invited. It
is an open meeting and a public meeting and they relish the
Council's input and the opportunity for them to attend
their meetings.
Councilwoman Rogers stated but if you had a Councilperson
with you when you do certain things it may help. Mr. Lott
stated it always does.
Councilwoman Rhodes stated when they started the budget
process the directive that was given to every department
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September 24, 2007
head was to cut their department by 10%. Some made it and
some didn't and some didn't even come close so they had to
cut more but no one department was asked to do anything
another department wasn't asked to do. The way the
Department Head did it, that was his option. That was
direction from Council to the City Manager. This wasn't
something the City Manager dreamed up. At the end of the
process when the budget came back and they had it last week
it occurred to her in talking to Mike Hayes that they
started out with 10% budget cut in every department, why
doesn't that still apply. That is how this got started.
This is where they are now.
Mayor Thomas asked for all the City employees and
Department Heads to stand up. He asked them if this
sounded familiar to them. Sleepless nights. Knots in your
belly. Emotion and pain. He's been there too because when
he got here he adopted everyone into his family. He
apologized for what they had to do. It was not easy for
him. He felt some of that pain but they got there. He is
very proud of each and everyone of the employees. He gave
them a round of applause. He thanked everyone.
Councilwoman Rhodes stated they want money, not applause.
Mayor Thomas opened the public hearing.
The following citizens spoke:
Ted Cooper, 3028 Mango Tree Drive, also applauded the
employees and Council for doing a very difficult task. He
spoke in support of Mr. Lott and the Chamber of Commerce.
They want to bring business in. They want certain business
in. They want green and clean business in. Perception is
reality. They have to look like what they want and they
aren't doing that. He realizes it costs money and they
have to go after it. Anybody in business knows you have to
spend money to make money so they have to take a different
look.
Mr. Cooper went over what City Manager Williams brought up
earlier. He stated he said could they get a hands on or
reality pitch from the local department heads on what this
really means minus the number jargon. He would like to
know how the services are going to be affected by these
cuts, by the individual department heads. They are also
our long-term management people. He looks for them for
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September 24, 2007
long term planning. Part of the problem today is they
didn't have enough long term planning for this problem. If
Ms. Small is correct, they need some more long term
planning very fast. He would like to hear from the
Department Heads individually what this means to the
citizens and how they are going to fix it from this point
forward.
Chris Balmer, 148 William Street, stated he wanted to
confirm some facts because he was confused. Apparently
they are projecting their reserve requirement to be met at
$1.9 million and above and beyond that they are going to
have an excess of approximately $121,000. At first you
would say great job to everybody. He was confused how they
have an excess of $121,000 and they haven't met the State
roll back number. They are cutting firefighters from
trucks. He commented on the level of service going down.
They have also cut the Economic Development Board budget.
So the City has $121,000 in a savings account. Above and
beyond that the City has $1.9 million in a savings account.
If it was his savings account, he would be spending that
money. He doesn't know what constitutes to use the $1.9
million but if they are changing the level of service of
the Fire Department. If they are cutting Economic
Development Board which is going out there trying to get
businesses to come into this community to grow the tax base
and they aren't meeting the State requirement, which next
year will be a further penalty to the City, he can't think
of another good reason why to use that $1.9 million.
Dave St. Mier, 1914 Juniper Drive, stated if they want to
increase anything you have to spend money to make money.
They have to give the Chamber the funds to get out there.
They all say they want to bring things into the City but he
questioned what exactly is being done to do it. He doesn't
see much improvement. He thought a couple of meetings ago
someone challenged someone to come up with some creative
ideas to do something for the good of the City. He hasn't
seen anything creative yet. In life nothing ever goes
down, things go up such as milk and gas. Unfortunately,
there are some people who do live here that are limited
means but they may have to face the fact that they cannot
afford to live here anymore. They can't keep going on the
same taxes. If everything stayed the same they laid off
ten people. The expenses are still going to increase.
They have to keep raising the tax base to get this in.
They are cutting the City's services to the bone. There is
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no more money to cut. They have to raise the money and
bring stuff in to do it.
Agnes Witter, 224 Flagler Avenue, stated if they were in a
make believe world they wouldn't be worrying about all
these problems. Unfortunately it is the debt that they
have been handed and they have to handle it the best they
can. People are upset because property taxes have gone up.
Whose fault is it? Basically it's an increase in property
values that was brought about not by the residents who have
resided here two, ten or fifty years. It's what happened
with the real estate market. They are all paying the
price. They can complain all they want but they are where
they are at. This is going to be a tough year for the City
She asked City Manager Williams if there are any debts or
anything that will be reduced in sufficient amounts this
year to make next year easier on them.
City Manager Williams stated if Ms. Witter's question
refers to debt in terms of loan payments, certainly there
are. He commented on selling the remaining acreage in
ParkTowne. That was financed over an 18-month period. We
are due to get another payment next year in August of about
$1.2 million. All of that money that is collected from
that payment will be sent directly to FIND to reduce the
amount of outstanding debt. Within another six months from
that period they will receive the final paYment.
Ultimately resulting in a total reduction of debt in the
General Fund of 30%. There seems to be some confusion out
there with regards to the City's debt. When the City
approaches the debt they have, they approach it under each
one of the funds, the General Fund, the Water & Sewer Fund,
the Refuse Fund and the Stormwater Fund. Those are
businesses in a sense under the umbrella of the city.
Every year they are able to meet our debt service paYments
and they have met those paYments forever. If the City was
not capable of meeting those payments, in the CAFR there is
a management letter that is issued by the auditors. There
would be a comment in there that said the City was not able
to meet those payments and therefore they may be in default
of certain agreements. They are making provisions. They
make provisions in the budget that is before the Council
tonight. All of their debt service requirements are out
there and are funded.
Ms. Witter stated if there are expenses that they incur
this year for new equipment of some sort, they can assume
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then that next year they won't have to spend that money so
they would be able to use money next year towards
reinvesting back into something that Mr. Lott was speaking
about, the Chamber, or into departments. She asked if
every year would be as rough and tight as this year or can
they envision next year will be a little bit better and the
year after that will be a little bit better.
City Manager Williams stated they are trying to get into a
more of an optimistic outlook. As things go on and the
threat of additional property tax reform before us, he
thinks they have to plan for a worst case scenario to some
extent. He has participated in most recently a luncheon
that was held by the FLOC and Ken Small was one of the
folks making a presentation. They are going to have him
here on the 18th to do some revenue enhancement training and
to take a whole different look at the way they conduct
business today. He is saying if in January this
constitutional amendment is not successful you can bet the
next Legislative Session they will have a tremendous amount
of bills on the floor to address the property tax reform
issue. If it isn't successful then on the next election in
November 2008 they will come back at it again. Everybody
in the industry today and his colleagues, when they
discussed this, the general feeling is they will probably
be dealing with this for the next three years. One of the
sayings Mr. Small said was for years cities have been
holding strategic planning sessions to expand the services
that they currently provide today. They are going to have
to go back into those strategic planning sessions and
change their outlook and start redefining their core
services to look at how they achieve some of the cost
savings that are going to be mandated as a result of tax
reform.
Jim Sylvester, 2209 Orange Tree Drive, stated a redneck
from the Smoky Mountains in North Carolina where milk costs
the same and gas costs the same however property taxes are
lower. In North Carolina they actively encourage small
business to come to their area. They advertise in trade
magazines outside the area in the northern states where it
is cold. They spend money advertising. By cutting the
Economic Development Board's budget they have planted the
seeds to starve this community.
Gigi Bennington, 121 Virginia Street, stated the last
public hearing the Council had, it didn't seem to be a
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primary issue that they met their Charter requirement. The
City Manager didn't seem that concerned. Now all of a
sudden they are meeting it plus. Part of that is a numbers
game. She is a numbers person and has gone over this. She
applauded the Council for sitting through this. Numbers
and things have been switched around. The resurfacing
program has been deleted and put into the Charter reserve.
We have no resurfacing plans for this next year on any of
the roads. The animal shelter was taken from under the
General Fund and put into an Enterprise Fund at $771,000,
$500,000 is the money they have the bond for already. They
are assuming they are going to have this amount of money if
this and this and this meet. They adopted a balanced
budget on the first reading and now they are looking at a
different balanced budget with different figures and some
of the items have been deleted prior to their knowledge.
This reserve money they have is our savings account. What
some of these people are asking is if something happens,
where is that money going to come from? The reserve fund?
They are cutting funds and services to build up an
imaginary figure to satisfy the budget. Several people
stated the Charter. Ms. Bennington stated it wasn't a
concern the last time they had this meeting. Councilwoman
Rhodes stated it has been a concern of hers every year she
has served on Council. Ms. Bennington stated they haven't
met it every year and they have accepted it. Councilwoman
Rhodes stated she never accepted it. Ms. Bennington
informed her she meant the whole Council, not just
Councilwoman Rhodes individually. The whole Council has
voted to accept a proposed budget previously that didn't
meet all of the State requirements and the Charter
amendment. Now all of a sudden it is a big issue. The
people need to know this is imaginary. These are just
assumptions. All of this is based on assumptions and
moving money around to make it look good for the City.
Sue Williams, NSB Resident, Legislative Chair for the
Southeast Volusia Chamber of Commerce, stated she has heard
a lot about encouraging the small businesses. They have
had volunteers at all of Edgewater's meetings. She could
tell them a difference in small business that has been
encouraged and has been a success. It has been on the
City's books for four years to encourage businesses to move
here. It's called the Residential Planning Zoning. No one
ever took advantage of it. It was up in front of the
Planning & Zoning Board this year. They had volunteers
here that spoke on behalf and encouraged it and now they
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September 24,2007
have a new small business, the kind of business the City is
looking for and that they helped encourage.
Mike Visconti, 316 pine Breeze Drive, stated at one time he
wrote an article about the taxes solution. It is
inevitable that they have to pay their taxes and die.
Death they can't control. Taxes they could. United we
stand, divided we fall. They divided the tax base, they
divided the tax money, they distributed along to everyone
and it is so small where they are talking about now they
could have had $800,000 in the budget that they divided.
Also the saying goes a half a loaf is better than none.
Instead of letting someone go, either cut their pay a
little bit and take a half of the loaf instead of the whole
loaf.
Pat Card, 3019 Willow Oak Drive, stated by cutting this
budget to the bone what they have done is defer a good deal
of a number of things that need to be done in this City.
If you don't maintain your roof, it leaks. If you don't
fix the leak, water comes in, it gets in the ceiling and
you get some mold. If you don't fix it after that it falls
in on somebody and you get a $100,000 workmen's
compensation claim. What happens when you don't fix the
roads? Eventually they get so bad in Florida Shores that
they have to do a special assessment and assess everybody
in Florida Shores to repair the roads there. If they
aren't going to repair roads, that is what is going to
happen. What happens when a 220-pound lady starts not
being able to focus her eyes properly and is talking
slurred and they only have two people on a truck to come
out from the Fire Department as the first responders? What
happens then? Two people can't lift a 220-pound woman. He
wants them to understand every time they cut people in the
emergency area they really cut it to the bone. Somebody is
going to die as a result or be a vegetable for the rest of
their lives because they have lost part of the time in that
golden hour that they have to recover people from strokes.
The City has one of the finest emergency medical provider
groups in the State. Don't let it to go hell in a basket.
Mayor Thomas asked City Manager Williams if the State
mandated that they go to 4.89 and that it took a 4 person
vote to go to the 5.2. City Manager Williams informed him
that was correct.
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Linda Small I 1629 Willow Oak Drivel stated there are 220-
pound men also. She wanted to address an individual who
continues to talk about how his property taxes only went
down $1.50 per month or $20 per year. She explained that
the reason property taxes didn/t go down any further is
because the taxing districts that come under the State
referendum did not lower their taxes to the State mandated
rate. The City of Edgewater is at 5.2. The mandated rate
is 4.89. Gap. The taxes didn/t go down. Bert Fish they
hit the State mandated rate but they got 3.2% more money
than they did last year. You have Volusia County who went
below the State mandated rate. This person also likes to
say that only $.25 on every dollar comes back to the
community. Quite candidly she goes to Volusia County tax
meetings and she is the only Edgewater resident therel
except her husband. She doesn/t believe the State went far
enough in mandating taxing .districts. They gave exemptions
basically to some taxing districts. The School district
has a reduced enrollment and they increased their budget.
St. John/s doesn/t come under the State mandate and their
budget went up 315% year after year. She hasn/t gone to
Palatka to tell them how she feels about that but she might
next year. If the taxing districts had all gone to the
State mandated rate, there would be more of a reduction in
the property taxes. If the constitutional amendment
doesn/t pass in JanuarYI perhaps the State Legislature will
go back and correct the problems they have created by
exempting certain taxing districts from participating in
the roll back rate.
Mayor Thomas thought Councilwoman Rogers could make her
motion and include the $15/000. He asked City Manager
Williams if she could do that.
City Manager Williams stated he thought the item at hand
was to adopt the budget. If they adopt the budget as it is
proposed, as they close this meeting and open up their next
meetingl then they can go back and address the additional
funding requirements for Economic Development as they have
described. He informed the Council it would come out of
the projected cash reserves of $601/000. They have the
ability to really address as much items in the budget to
the tune of $121/000. If they go below thatl they are
going to be below the required minimum to maintain 15%
Charter reserve requirements. His recommendation would be
to pass the budget as it is proposed certainly recognizing
that there are some needs to go back and look at additional
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September 24, 2007
items. He will keep the communication open with Mr. Lott
and the Chamber and place that on the list as an emphasis
to be done and any other items that come up.
Mayor Thomas entertained a motion.
Councilwoman Lichter made a motion to accept Ord. 2007-0-
16, which adopts the final budget, second by Councilwoman
Rhodes.
Mr. Balmer called for a point of order. He didn't think
they could adopt the budget knowing they are going to
change it. He asked for a legal opinion on that. He
believed the budget had to be fixed and then adopted
correctly.
City Attorney Ansay stated if the budget is adopted now and
there is a desire later to amend the budget in any regard
that could be dealt with at a later action. Mr. Balmer
questioned it being done an hour later in the next meeting.
City Attorney Ansay informed him they could.
City Manager Williams stated typically their processes are
this simple. Budget amendments they can take two different
approaches and the policy they have taken in the past is
they have a General Fund budget that is proposed at $13
million. At the end of next fiscal year if that is well
under the $13 million there is no need to do a final
amendment to it. You do final amendments when the proposed
expenditures exceed what they have adopted tonight.
Through the Charter he has the authority to do line item
transfers as long as it doesn't change the total value.
That is regular practice.
Mayor Thomas stated there is a motion on the floor by
Councilwoman Lichter, seconded by Councilwoman Rhodes. He
asked for a roll call vote.
The MOTION CARRIED 5 - 0 .
ADJOURNMENT
Mayor Thomas entertained a motion to adjourn.
There being no further business to discuss, Councilwoman
Rhodes moved to adjourn. The meeting adjourned at 8:24
p.m.
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Minutes submitted by:
Lisa Bloomer
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