10-01-2007 - Regular
CITY COUNCIL OF EDGEWATER
REGULAR MEETING
OCTOBER 1, 2007
7:00 P.M.
COMMUNITY CENTER
MINUTES
1. CALL TO ORDER
Mayor Thomas called the Regular Meeting to order at 7:07
p.m. in the Community Center.
ROLL CALL
Mayor Michael Thomas
Councilwoman Debra Rogers
Councilman Dennis Vincenzi
Councilwoman Harriet Rhodes
Councilwoman Judith Lichter
City Manager Jon Williams
City Clerk Susan Wadsworth
Assistant City Attorney Michael Ciocchetti
Present
Present
Present
Excused
Present
Present
Present
Present
INVOCATION, PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE
There was a 'silent invocation and pledge of allegiance to
the Flag.
2. APPROVAL OF MINUTES
A. Regular Meeting of July 30, 2007
Councilwoman Lichter moved to approve the July 30, 2007
minutes, second by Councilman Vincenzi.
The MOTION CARRIED 4 - 0 .
3. PRESENTATIONS/PROCLAMATIONS/PLAQUES/CERTIFICATES/DON
ATIONS
There were no Presentations at this time.
4. CITIZEN COMMENTS
There were no Citizen Comments at this time.
Page 1 of 13
Council Regular Meeting
October 1, 2007
5. CITY COUNCIL REPORTS
Councilwoman Lichter had nothing at this time.
Councilwoman Rogers had nothing at this time.
Councilman vincenzi had nothing at this time.
Mayor Thomas reported on the VCOG Smart Growth Committee
meeting he attended today. They have got Map A about 99%
complete. They are going to talk about TDR's at the next
meeting, Transfer Development Rights. Then they are going
to try to move on to Map B.
6. CONSENT AGENDA
There were no items to be discussed on the Consent Agenda
at this time.
7. PUBLIC HEARINGS, ORDINANCES AND RESOLUTIONS
There were no Public Hearings, Ordinances or Resolutions to
be discussed at this time.
8. BOARD APPOINTMENTS
A. Planning & Zoning Board - nomination by
Councilman Vincenzi to fill a vacant seat due to
the expired term of Pat Card (9/27/07), who seeks
reappointment
Councilman Vincenzi moved to reappoint Pat Card, second by
Councilwoman Lichter.
The MOTION CARRIED 4 - 0 .
9. OTHER BUSINESS
A. Water/Wastewater Chemicals - staff recommending
approval of Notice of Award bid to: O-N Minerals
(Luttrel) Company for the purchase of High
Calcium Quicklime for an estimated annual
expenditure of $139,638.64, and to Airgas
Carbonic for the purchase of liquid carbon
dioxide for an estimated annual $30,375.00, and
for the Mayor and/or City Manager to execute all
associated documents
Page 2 of 13
Council Regular Meeting
October 1, 2007
Director of Environmental Services Terry Wadsworth made a
staff presentation.
Mayor Thomas entertained a motion.
Councilwoman Rogers moved to accept the bid for high
calcium quicklime from O-N Minerals (Luttrel) Company ror
an estimated annual expenditure or $139,638.64, second by
Councilman Vincenzi.
The MOTION CARRIED 4 - 0 .
B. Western Reserve Area Utility Project -
consideration of the abandonment of force main,
temporary construction easement, and quit claim
deed relating to this project and authorization
of the Mayor and/or City Manager to execute the
associated documents
Director of Environmental Services Terry Wadsworth made a
staff presentation.
Mayor Thomas asked how much it would cost. Mr. Wadsworth
informed him the insurance company was seeking bids from
the original contract. That portion of the line is
probably worth $150,000.
Mayor Thomas confirmed the City wouldn't be paying for it.
Mr. Wadsworth informed him it was the insurance company for
the surveyor and they are completely responsible for it.
Councilwoman Lichter asked if this is where they have the
problem with Mission Road and SR 442. Mr. Wadsworth
informed her it was in the middle of a block almost between
Park Avenue and SR 442 on Mission. It comes down the FPL
easement. It comes out a little bit to the north of where
Magnolia Village is.
Councilwoman Lichter commented on Magnolia Village having
problems. She suggested one day they should look into who
did the survey work for Mission Road and SR 442. That
doesn't look so good either.
Mayor Thomas informed Councilwoman Lichter he was talking
about a water line. Mr. Wadsworth informed him it was a
sewer force main.
Page 3 of 13
Council Regular Meeting
October 1, 2007
Mayor Thomas entertained a motion.
Councilwoman Lichter moved to abandon the force main
temporary construction easement and quit claim deed related
to this project and authorize the Mayor or City Manager to
execute the associated documents, second by Councilman
vincenzi.
The MOTION CARRIED 4 - 0 .
C. Formalize the Evaluation and Appraisal Report
(EAR) issues list as required by the Florida
Department of Community Affairs (DCA)
Janet Shira, B & H Consultants, made a presentation. She
suggested if the Council wanted to discuss the formal list,
if there was anything they wanted to add, delete or modify
any of the language before they actually take a vote on it.
Mayor Thomas stated they were reading
didn't see about the high unit value.
under Item 1 - Taxes they referred to
development as high unit.
some words that he
Ms. Shira stated
the residential
Ms. Shira stated there was a comment made that this list
was not available. They have made this list available on
the City's website and at every EAR Committee meeting in
hopes to generate public comments. They have done the best
they can to get out there with this information.
Councilwoman Lichter asked how they might change the
verbiage with regard Item 1 - Taxes and the reference to
the high unit value.
City Manager Williams suggested they could strike unit and
just say high value.
Dave Ross, 2803 Needle Palm Drive, suggested changing it to
high value unit, low density. If they are talking about
expensive single-family residences then you are talking
about low density. When you are talking about condominiums
and apartments you are talking about high density. That
would clarify the intent.
Mayor Thomas felt striking the word unit would be the
simplest thing to do.
Page 4 of 13
Council Regular Meeting
October 1, 2007
Mayor Thomas asked if there was a motion to that effect.
Councilwoman Lichter stated she didn't want to let it be
thought of if they put such emphasis on that one that they
aren't thinking of all types of housing. That might be one
way. She doesn't want other things to be eliminated.
Mr. Lear pointed out that on Number 7 the Two Way Tie they
have Housing where they are encouraging a variety of
housing.
Councilwoman Lichter suggested taking out the word unit in
Number 1.
Mayor Thomas stated the motion would be to accept this as
written except to strike that one word unit. He asked if
that was correct.
Councilwoman Lichter stated yes, that would be the motion.
Councilwoman Rogers seconded the motion.
Councilman Vincenzi stated that is just a motion to change
that one word. Councilwoman Rogers stated a motion to
accept it and change that one word.
Councilwoman Vincenzi didn't have a problem with this. He
stated once they approve this and it goes back to Planning
& Zoning they are going to have start working on these and
figuring out more detail and how to do you define high
value and how you define low municipal impact. He asked
what the next procedure is. It seems to him that
terminology can really be misconstrued.
Ms. Shira stated eventually once the EAR is written with
all these items then it will come back to Council with
their new Comp Plan and then they can direct the Planning &
Zoning Board to start tackling these things one at a time
or all at once.
Councilman Vincenzi stated once it is approved what is the
next step. Ms. Shira stated once the list is approved she
and Mr. Lear will be meeting with all the various agencies
to share it with them. Once they have understood it they
will be working with DCA to get the State to say yes these
are appropriate. Go ahead and write your EAR document,
which is basically your new plan.
Page 5 of 13
Council Regular Meeting
October 1, 2007
Councilman Vincenzi stated so it will be right in the Comp
Plan or is it developing a new one. Ms. Shira informed him
it's the process of developing an update to the Comp Plan.
Councilman vincenzi stated so at that time they can go
ahead and define what a high value thing is and what low
municipal impact is. Someone is going to have to define it
at some time. Ms. Shira stated in rewriting the plan they
would do that. The Planning & Zoning Board will probably
make recommendations to Council and it will ultimately be
the Council's decision on what those definitions are and
what the plan says.
Councilman Vincenzi stated so they are going to throw it
back over the fence with no solution again. He understands
it is a long drawn out process. Ms. Shira stated
unfortunately it is. This is the start.
Councilman Vincenzi stated he didn't have any problem with
the rewording.
Mayor Thomas stated the motion is on the floor to accept
the document submitted written as is except for striking
the word unit under Number 1 - Taxes.
The MOTION CARRIED 4 - 0 .
D. ParkTowne Industrial Center - Rowan Way and Base
Leg Drive - Construction Phase Engineering
Services Proposal
Director of Environmental Services Terry Wadsworth made a
staff presentation.
Mayor Thomas asked if it was part of the agreement. City
Manager Williams informed him yes this would come out of
the funds from the purchase of the 83 acres.
Councilwoman Rogers confirmed it was in the budget and the
request indicates it is an estimate. She asked if there
was a not to exceed amount. She asked how much was
budgeted. City Manager Williams informed her they are
hoping it doesn't exceed the $77,000. Mr. Wadsworth
explained the original proposal was for $99,000. They
negotiated it down with the engineers by being able to do
both projects. It is $22,000 less than what the original
budgeted figure was.
Page 6 of 13
Council Regular Meeting
October 1, 2007
Mayor Thomas entertained a motion.
Councilman Vincenzi moved to accept the Engineering
Services Proposal from Quentin L. Hampton for the
Construction Phase of the Base Leg Drive and Rowan Way
Projects in ParkTowne Industrial Center relative to Bid No.
07-ES-02, at an estimated fee of $77,375.00 and to
authorize the City Manager to execute engineering work
order no. 2007-01 on behalf of the City, second by
Councilwoman Lichter.
The MOTION CARRIED 4 - 0 .
10. OFFICER REPORTS
A. City Clerk
City Clerk Wadsworth announced that the meeting to be held
on October 15th would now be held on October 18th.
City Clerk Wadsworth reminded the Council that they have a
special meeting on October 10th at 6:00 p.m. to certify the
election results.
B. City Attorney
Assistant City Attorney Ciocchetti had nothing at this
time.
Mayor Thomas stated he was interested in the pending
lawsuits.
Assistant City Attorney Ciocchetti stated he knows that
their response is due within the next two weeks and that
the court has set a date for a hearing to consider the Man
Damus with regard to ECARD. He believed the court date was
October 22nd. City Clerk Wadsworth thought it was the 16th.
Assistant City Attorney Ciocchetti agreed to confirm that
and send out the information.
C. City Manager
City Manager Williams had nothing at this time.
1) Tentative Agenda Items
Page 7 of 13
Council Regular Meeting
October 1, 2007
There were no Tentative Agenda Items to be discussed at
this time.
11. CITIZEN COMMENTS
The following citizens spoke:
Pat Card, 3019 Willow Oak Drive, thanked the Council for
their continued confidence. He wondered if Assistant City
Attorney Ciocchetti would only be attending the meetings
that were less than a half hour.
Jeanne DelNigro, 3130 Tamarind Drive, stated she was very
upset because she found out tonight that one engine is down
at the Fire Station on Hibiscus. She asked if anyone knew
where the Fire Chief was. Mr. Balmer informed her he was
riding the fire truck tonight with the Captain. Ms.
DelNigro asked what he was doing on a fire truck. Mr.
Balmer stated no replacements. Mayor Thomas informed Ms.
DelNigro he was saving them money he guessed.
Ms. DelNigro asked why the fire truck was down and stated
they are jeopardizing the people's lives in the City. She
asked if they realized that by what they are doing.
Mayor Thomas stated he didn't think they had any choice
with what they did. The State mandated them to do
something and they did what they had to do. He informed
Ms. DelNigro to find a way to get him more money and he
would be glad to do that. Ms. DelNigro asked him if he
would be willing to go out and ride the fire truck. Mayor
Thomas informed her he would. Ms. DelNigro suggested he
call the Chief and get out there and ride it with him. The
City is jeopardizing the citizens' lives in the City with a
truck down. They have three men on and if something else
happens in this City they are doomed. She asked if she
could ask a fireman a question. She asked Jeff Lariscy if
on a normal working day they have five firemen. Mr.
Lariscy informed her full staffing at the other station is
five firefighters. Ms. DelNigro asked him how many they
had today. Mr. Lariscy informed her three. Ms. DelNigro
asked him if they got a call in the City today and if they
had to call another unit in. Mr. Lariscy stated they had
to call New Smyrna for automatic aid this morning. They
had to call New Smyrna to cover our City this morning
already.
Page 8 of 13
Council Regular Meeting
October 1,2007
Ms. DelNigro asked why that was happening. Councilwoman
Lichter stated because Edgewater has a cooperative plan
with cities to help each other in need. Ms. DelNigro
stated if there are only three men on and one truck is down
and say Mr. Lear is having a heart attack. They respond to
him and all of a sudden she is having a heart attack. What
is she supposed to do? Drop dead while they are taking
care of him? Common sense.
Mayor Thomas stated the people said they didn't want to pay
the taxes. It is as simple as that.
Councilwoman Lichter felt her questions aren't answered by
those of them that aren't pros. This was worked out in
conjunction with the City Manager and the Fire Chief. They
also are as vulnerable as 22,000 people and they are all
trying to make it go around. She was sure they would not
let her die. How can they be sure of anything in life.
They are doing the best they can. Each department had to
cut very important services. They have to team up with
other cities in certain circumstances. She felt it would
be a more appropriate time when the Fire Chief was there.
She suggested maybe City Manager Williams would know
better. She wasn't in on the details of their
negotiations.
City Manager Williams stated he and Fire Chief Barlow
picked up right where they left off after the budget was
approved last Monday in trying to provide some solutions.
They met Thursday. As they were meeting ring tones went
out for the fire that took place in ParkTowne. The mutual
aid agreement that we have in place worked perfectly. They
had the cities of New Smyrna, Port Orange and Volusia
County on scene and responding. He rode out to the site
with Fire Chief Barlow and he commended the efforts of our
Fire Department along with those other cities and Volusia
County that responded. It was very impressive to watch.
They did a wonderful job and are commended for that. They
are working on solutions. He and Fire Chief Barlow have
set down and approached this from an FTE equivalent and
they continue to refine those numbers and will continue to
revise those numbers in an effort to provide a solution to
the problem.
Mayor Thomas stated don't they have two stations. He then
asked how many were on duty tonight. City Manager Williams
couldn't answer that question. Typically they run with
Page 9 of 13
Council Regular Meeting
October 1,2007
eight. His proposal was that he would not backfill with
overtime as a result of vacation and sick time. He didn't
discuss the staffing level with the Chief today.
Mayor Thomas asked if the firemen could tell him how many
people were on duty tonight. Someone informed him three
personnel at each station.
Chris Balmer, 148 William Street, stated they appreciate
what the Council is doing from a budget perspective. As a
taxpayer in Edgewater he appreciates it. He thinks the
concern out there that is expressed tonight is that they
have a budget surplus for lack of better terms for $121,000
that they saw last week. They were just advised that they
saved another $22,000 on something else. They have a
fully, in theory, $1.9 million of a Reserve Fund. The
concern he thinks they are hearing is great, they have done
good. They got the tax rate lowered. They didn't meet the
State mandate but they have $140,000 extra as of tonight
and they have $1.9 million and they are having or may have
in the future some service issues. As the City Manager and
others move forward he thinks that is what needs to be
explained to people. They are doing a good job, they are
rolling back the tax rate, they are cutting taxes, people
are appreciative of that in hard economic times but at the
same time if they have some extra dollars why not put it in
the areas that count. He wasn't sure where the needs are
or how they are ranked. In his theory Fire and Police
would be at the top of that chart. If he were budgeting a
$140,000 overage in his budget and he knew they had fire
trucks that weren't in service because they aren't
backfilling those positions he would try to allocate some
of those dollars to those positions. He thinks that is the
concern from the citizens.
Mike Visconti, 316 Pine Breeze Drive, stated he thought
they already passed the budget. He made some comments
before the budget was passed about united we stand, divided
we fall. He said the tax rate wasn't enough to warrant the
tax rate. He used himself as an example saving $27 per
year. He felt that if they combined all that money
together, instead of lowering the taxes, use that $800,000
towards what they are talking about right now and they
would have the Fire Department. They would have what is
going on right now a shortage of manpower. He feels the
thing is done. If they could see their way clear to
Page 10 of 13
Council Regular Meeting
October 1, 2007
rectify this they should. This should have come up before
the budget was passed.
Councilman vincenzi stated with the staffing issue. The
arrangement with not backfilling overtime is an arrangement
between the Fire Chief and the City Manager. They agreed
to it. It is a solution. To him it is up to the Fire
Chief to come up with other potential solutions as well
such as if you need people to plan your year and cover for
people on vacation. That is a justifiable expense. He has
no problem saying hire somebody if the money is there. The
issue came up with overtime that was out of control in the
Fire Department for a variety of reasons. One being no
having enough people to staff when people call in sick or
go on vacation or go on military deploYment or whatever.
He said at a previous meeting if they have to call someone
in for overtime every time someone calls in sick or goes on
vacation, that's not right and that is a sign that
something isn't being planned or operate right within that
department. The Chief has come forward and talked to the
City Manager and come up with a solution. If he needs to
hire two people, he needs to come to City Manager Williams
and let him know he wants to hire people and what he is
going to do with them. Just to call people in as a result
of being short staffed, calling them in on overtime, is not
right and poor business operation. There are other
solutions out there that the Chief has to come forward
with. There are other issues within the City within other
departments as well such as the Police Department with
regard to being short staffed and their equipment being
degrading. That is a problem that comes up and it all
takes money. When anyone says there is $100,000 extra,
there is sort of but not really because they could spend
that pretty quick on additional people or new police cars
or whatever. Those are things that the department heads
have to come forward with. They can't keep taking the easy
route by calling someone in when someone calls in sick or
not planning properly for someone on vacation. That can't
continue and that is where they are. He is open to other
solutions and open to spending money to hire people if it
is going to serve a purpose. If the purpose is to increase
service without increasing cost other than paying the
salary for an additional person which should be offset by
paying that person and not having to call someone in on
overtime.
Page 11 of 13
Council Regular Meeting
October 1, 2007
Someone in the audience stated that was his first choice.
Mr. Lariscy stated that was Option 1.
Councilman Vincenzi stated his point is the Chief has to
come forward if there is additional still problems in the
Fire Department, which he was sure there would be
throughout the year, the Chief has to come forward with
good solutions and it has to be discussed.
Councilwoman Lichter stated although yes it is true for
their life police and fire are very important, probably the
most. There are other complaints she gets like there is no
money to fix roads and that can be a dangerous situation.
We might look like for the moment they have extra. One
problem really has to be solved and that is the Chief
working out the manning of the trucks with the City
Manager. The other problem is a department like Jack
Corder's took a 40% cut. He's not just recreation. He's a
heck of a lot more than that. He is lights and roads and
those are important safety factors also, not on quite the
same level. The minute they decided and got pressured into
putting the total amount of money in the Charter mandated
reserve fund that they really haven't had the proper amount
of money in for many years however a tough year to do that.
When the question was asked of the attorney sitting there
is this City breaking the law by not having the right
amount of money in that Reserve Fund, can it be sued.
Carolyn very quietly said yes. She thinks the die was cast
for pulling in that belt even tighter. If money surfaces,
it will get directed in the proper order by the department
heads. The Chief in a sense is the head of that department
and the City Manager. That is their job to work out and
see where it is most needed. To have someone say they are
endangering their lives, living is endangering her life
quite frankly. Sitting up there half the time is
endangering her life.
Mayor Thomas stated the State mandated them to do
something. It wasn't easy and their goal was to not cut
any positions. He asked City Manager Williams if they
fired anyone over this. City Manager Williams informed him
no. Mayor Thomas stated they left some positions open that
were open but they did not let anybody go. That was his
goal. Yes they are having to tighten their belts and it is
hurting a little bit and they need to do the best they can
with what they have. If they think bad is here now, bad
isn't here yet, bad is coming if they let the tax
Page 12 of 13
Council Regular Meeting
October 1,2007
referendum go through. They are really going to be seeing
some cutting then. Instead of getting ,up and telling the
Council to do something where there hands are tied, they
need to be talking to their fellow voters not to let that
tax referendum go through. He commented on other cities
that had to fire people. We didn't fire anybody or let
anybody go. The City was at 5.2 and it was the highest.
They were cut to the bone already and they wanted to cut
some more and they did. They didn't even go to 4.89. They
went to 5.2. He again encouraged the people to talk to the
voters. Charlie Christ isn't done yet.
12. ADJOURNMENT
There being no further business to discuss, Councilwoman
Rogers moved to adjourn. The meeting adjourned at 7:47
p.m.
Page 13 of 13
Council Regular Meeting
October 1,2007