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10-18-2007 - Regular CITY COUNCIL OF EDGEWATER REGULAR MEETING OCTOBER 18, 2007 7:00 P.M. COMMUNITY CENTER MINUTES 1. CALL TO ORDER Mayor Thomas called the Regular Meeting to order at 7:00 p.m. in the Community Center. ROLL CALL Mayor Michael Thomas Councilwoman Debra Rogers Councilman Dennis Vincenzi Councilwoman Harriet Rhodes Councilwoman Judith Lichter City Manager Jon Williams City Clerk Susan Wadsworth City Attorney Michael Ciocchetti Present Present Present Present Present Present Present Present INVOCATION, PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE There was a silent invocation and pledge of allegiance to the Flag. 2. APPROVAL OF MINUTES A. Regular Meeting of August 13, 2007 Councilwoman Rhodes moved to approve the August 13, 2007 minutes, second by Councilwoman Lichter. The MOTION CARRIED 5-0. 3. PRESENTATIONS/PROCLAMATIONS/PLAQUES/CERTIFICATES/DON ATIONS A. Ken Small, Florida League of Cities, Financial Services Manager - Issues in Tallahassee & Property Tax Reform City Manager Williams introduced Ken Small. He stated he is the Financial Technical Assistance Manager with 31 years Page 1 of28 Regular Meeting October 18, 2007 in finance and taxation pertaining to municipal and county governments. He is the former City Manager for the City of Mulberry. For the past 23 years he has worked for the Florida League of Cities as a lobbyist and he is also an expert in finance and taxation. Today they had the pleasure of conducting revenue enhancement seminar training which allowed staff to take an in depth look at the available sources of revenue to the City. One thing that is clearly evident as a result of this training is they will be challenged to constantly evaluate the method by which they are to deliver services from this point and in the very near future and long term. Ken Small/ Florida League of Cities/ Financial Services Manager/ stated they had a long day today. They started at 8 and finished at 5. They covered a lot of things. What is driving this is the issues going on in Tallahassee from the Florida legislature not to mention the property tax crisis that we have been in from the dramatic run up in property values from the real estate market going back to 2000 or 2001. Most cities are looking at ways to reduce their property tax burden on their citizens and their businesses. When you look at surveys throughout the country property taxes are perceived to be the most unfair tax in the United States. One reason is why do people feel that way. Most people will say it is because unfairness. It treats people and businesses dramatically different. When they get into the times they just had with the gigantic run up in property values these unfairnesses come out and you can see them night and day. He has been through this crisis. The first time started in 1978 through 1982. They had a lot of experience dealing with it at that time. There are so many similarities today. One of the big differences was back then the Florida Legislature was very eager to help local governments with the issue. They were eager to create new revenue sources to reduce the property tax burden. We are running into now the Legislature doesn/t seem to want to go that route and they are looking at trying to make dramatic cuts in tax bases coming up with new exemptions and such. The bottom line is if they are going to be faced with reducing property taxes/ whether they chose it themselves or the Florida Legislature helps them do it/ those loss of revenues/ there are only three options to deal with it. The first option is you replace it with new revenues that are not property tax based. The second option is you cut expenses such as services and personnel or look at a Page 2 of28 Regular Meeting October 18, 2007 combination of additional revenues and cuts in services. Those are the three options they have to do with that. The property tax issues they are facing in Tallahassee he sees lasting a long time, for many years. They have the Florida Legislature right now in Special Session. As of this morning, the coalition that they had of coming up with something to put on the ballot fell apart and the House and Senate are at odds and don't know what to do. What has made it interesting is the FSU Miami football game is Saturday and the Legislature has to get out of the hotel because of fans coming in. They are pressed with that and then coming back later. This collapse of a compromise is really putting them in a bad position. That is just Special Session. The Legislature is going to come back next session in 2008 with a bunch of other things on dealing with the different crisis they have here including insurance. There is a Constitutional entity called the Taxation and Budget Reform Commission. There are 25 voting members. They have been appointed and have been meeting around the State Florida. Their job is to come up with some potential Constitutional Amendments, in the area of budget, taxation, and efficiency. They are also looking at recommendations to the Legislature. They have to be finalized by May 4th so there is still a lot of things that could go on there. The Speaker of the House Rubio has indicated that no matter what happens with this Special Session if a Constitutional Amendment to do dramatic changes to the property tax structure, even if it passes, he is saying he is going to lead a citizen initiative that is going to come back to put something on the 2010 ballot. One of the things they are looking at is a property tax proposal called 30, 40, 50. Any homeowner 62 or older their taxable value on their home would be only at 30% of market value. All other homesteaders would have their property appraised for tax purposes at 40% of value and everybody else would be at 50%. If that were to occur, there would be a substantial drop in the tax base, which the millage is applied to. They have heard of the roll back rate. The whole concept with the roll back rate is they always assume the tax base is going to increase every year from inflation and growth. The problem is with the big run up they have had in property values. He has already seen some counties and a number of coastal cities, their current budget process, their tax base actually fell. The home prices are falling. The condo market in Panama City Beach has collapsed. The assessed value for tax purposes when they got their TRIM bill recently was far Page 3 of28 Regular Meeting October 18, 2007 above what they could sell their house for now. The issue is the roll back rate only works as a roll back if the tax base goes up in order to bring in the same revenues the next year. If the tax base falls and over the next couple of years they are really expecting tax rates or the assessed values of properties to fall as it works out with the way the real estate market is currently going. There is going to be an equilibrium where prices will fall and tax bases will shrink. The roll back rate is going to become a roll forward rate in order to bring in the same dollars with a shrinking tax base the millage rate has to go higher. That will be interesting seeing how people react to that. Mr. Small then commented on the City's tax base. They have some interesting statistics they used for the 2006-2007 fiscal year because the new property tax information hasn't come out yet. When he looks at the City on a per capita taxable value that is taking the tax base and dividing by permanent population. The State average is a little over $91,000 per capita on taxable value. The median, which is half or more half or smaller, is about $65,000. The City's tax base is a little over $50,000 per capita. The City has a weak tax base. He compared the per capita in New Smyrna Beach and theirs being at almost $137,000 per capita. Their tax base on a per capita basis is almost triple of Edgewater. That means they can go with a much lower millage rate and raise the same dollars Edgewater raises at a much higher millage rate on a per capita basis. When he looks at how much property taxes are actually levied by the millage rate, per capita taxes levied is $288. New Smyrna Beach is $551, almost double. On a per capita basis using permanent population they pay almost twice as much as Edgewater does. While they might say our tax rate is high the actual amount of property value that can be applied to it, Edgewater is relatively low which then shows they have a much lower property tax per capita that is actually levied. The State average is $466. Edgewater is well below the State average. What can they do about the tax base? They talked about that today. Redevelopment is one of those. When they look at options to increase the tax base. Some cities say they want to annex their way out of the problem. That isn't always an option. Other cities try to deal with their central area that is in need of redevelopment. Go in there and find ways to encourage people to rebuild newer and more dense type things and that increases their taxable value. Increasing commercial, Page 4 of 28 Regular Meeting October 18, 2007 industrial and upscale residential are other ways of dealing with increasing the tax base. It's not something they can do over night. These things sometimes take decades to accomplish. There is no easy way out of that particular one. When they look at if they want to decrease the dependency on property taxes, there are other options. The biggest complaint he has always seen on property tax is that it is unfair. The use of special assessments to fund fire services, street lights, stormwater, those type of things, the courts have mandated that property has to derive the benefit from it but more importantly the whole basis that makes a special assessment legal has to do with it must be fairly and reasonably apportioned among those who receive the benefit. It is based on the benefit received. The courts have ruled for it to be legal it has to be fairly and reasonably apportioned. If it's not, it's not legal. Assessments is one of those fairness tools. If you pay little or no property taxes, they wouldn't like special assessments. A lot of communities have been looking at converting their fire service away from property tax towards an assessments basis. Another area he is always trying to allow cities to look at is to develop a full cost recovery program. The concept behind user fees is a cost recovery program of user driven services. Some people say if you utilize that you are going to nickel and dime me. Those are user driven services. They could do away with user fees and raise property taxes but not everybody uses user driven services. The concept has always been if you use it, then you pay for it. The thing they need to look at is if they are going to use that type of concept, they need to recover the full cost. There is an awful lot of indirect cost that can legally be apportioned to the various services. He presented examples and explained these are all part of the City and they have overhead that under an indirect cost program, they apportion out that to all the different operating areas and where they recover the cost they pick up that proportionate share of it. It works very well. The underlying affect he always tries to get across to folks is if they set the user fee on what it costs to do the service, it is going to be pretty high and it is going to be higher than the other cities around us so let's look at what the other cities around us are doing. They don't know what they are basing their cost on. They could have set it 10 years ago by looking at their neighbor cities. If they don't recover the full cost and have to subsidize the cost, it is the property taxpayer that is picking up difference. It is Page 5 of28 Regular Meeting October 18, 2007 always going to fall on the property taxpayer if they don't recover the full cost of user driven services. One of the things that he has talked over with several City Managers is over the last number of years cities have utilized strategic planning and goal setting, and a lot of times when they go through these visioning things of what they create their City, there is a big price tag with it. One of the things he suggested was with the future of where they are going and people are talking about wanting to reduce taxes and only having a limited amount of money and they want to cut property taxes where they can. He thinks folks might want to consider strategic planning in reverse. It is putting the same resources and time into reanalyzing what they are as a City and what they want the City to be given less revenues in the future from property tax and the reduction of dependents on property tax. Maybe they need to look at redefining what their core mission is and identify what is important and what would be nice but they don't necessarily need to have. There are things cities do that make them different from other people. Look at those and prioritize what is important and what they maybe don't need to do. They have three options, increase revenues, reduce services or some of both. Reducing services requires something like strategic planning and the involvement of the community to say they aren't going to have this unlimited amount of taxes in the future and maybe they do need to redefine things. It is going to be an interesting decade ahead for local government and in the next couple of years. They don't know where it is going to go. Three days ago he thought the Legislature cut the deal and that was going to be on January 29th and things can change very quickly. He then asked if anyone had specific questions in the revenue realm or the Legislature. Councilwoman Lichter stated Mr. Small mentioned the Tax Committee and all the meetings she attended in terms of what is happening in Tallahassee, there has been this talk of they should have waited until they heard from the Tax Committee and he said May. She asked if he was getting any clues or if they were talking about anything unique and if anything was coming out of the group that was mandated to do this. Mr. Small stated the former Speaker of House Allen Bence is the Chair of that Committee and they are basically taking their queue from the leadership of the Legislature that they need to back off and let the Legislature solve the Page 6 of28 Regular Meeting October 18,2007 property tax problem. Although constitutionally they were created to deal with those types of problems. He didn't have a clue where they were going. Councilwoman Lichter felt that wasn't encouraging. Mr. Small stated if the Legislature fails to do something and they can't get it on the ballot on January 29th they have to get a 3/4 affirmative vote from the House and Senate. Those votes seem to be disappearing. The Democrats hold a real thing here. Their argument was and it sounds like the House is bringing them into the fold and saying tell them some of their ideas they had. One was they didn't need the new doubling the homestead exemption. They need a homestead exemption based on 40% of the median price of a home in your county so that in Dade County where property values are so much higher than they are in a rural county, one exemption wouldn't fit the whole state. They are saying it should be based on that. They were never heard during session. Now when they need their votes in order to put it on the ballot they seem to be much warmed up to this. That seems to be part of the House proposal right now is to look at something like that. Mayor Thomas informed Mr. Small they appreciated his time. Mr. Small thanked them for having him. B. Presentation By Randell Brown, Regional Director, State of Florida, Department of Financial Services (Daytona Office) to discuss recent changes in the "My Safe Florida Home programn Randell Brown, Regional Director, Florida Department of Financial Services, 135 Executive Circle, Daytona Beach, representing Chief Financial Officer Alex Sink, made a presentation regarding changes in the "My Safe Florida programn that have come about since March. He started presentation by providing some background information. commented on the changes to the criteria for the grant. Home his He Mr. Brown explained even if people aren't eligible, they still need to get the free wind inspection. The report will tell them what they need to do to hurricane harden their homes, the approximate cost of those repairs and the amount of discounts they can get from the insurance company. He further commented on a study they have done around the State regarding there being an average savings of 18% on the wind insurance premium. He stated he had fliers and informed everyone how to apply for the free wind Page 7 of 28 Regular Meeting October 18, 2007 inspection. inspections grants. It The State has done over 100,000 and they have paid out over $4.4 is well worth the time to apply. wind million in Councilwoman Lichter asked if manufactured homes were entitled to this. Mr. Brown informed her they were not. Only site built homes are eligible for the grant and the wind inspection. Councilwoman Lichter stated there are so many in State that seniors are living in and where there is the most damage. She thought they might be eligible at least for the inspection. Mr. Brown informed her there was a program through the Tallahassee Community College with the first go around but that program was stopped for whatever reason. It is only site built homes now. Councilwoman Rogers stated Mr. Brown indicated he had a brochure. Mr. Brown agreed to leave them on the table in the Community Center. Councilwoman Rogers suggested the City duplicate the flier and put it into the newsletter to the residents of Edgewater in addition to having the News Journal do an article about this. City Manager Williams agreed to put the information in the newsletter and asked that it be sent electronically and he would have it put on the City's website. Councilwoman Rogers also wanted something put in the newspaper because she feels some people don't really pay attention to the newsletter. Mr. Brown stated he could come down and give other groups a presentation. Dominic Capri a , 606 Topside Circle, felt it wasn't fair that they only do site built homes and not manufactured homes. He thinks that Mr. Brown did a good job and should be checking into why not manufactured homes. They pay taxes just as much as the site built homes. Some of them pay higher taxes than the site built homes. He would like Mr. Brown to check into the reasons why. Councilwoman Lichter stated they own the land under their houses so they pay regular taxes. Mr. Brown stated this is a Legislative act. He asked who the Legislator was in this area. Councilwoman Lichter stated Dorothy Hukill and Evelyn Lynn. Mr. Brown stated these are the people to go to since this is a Legislative act. They can work the Legislature and have this changed if it is able to be changed. He wasn't sure why the program stopped. Mr. Capria stated they said there were lack of funds and they Page 8 of28 Regular Meeting October 18, 2007 were dropped and now it is coming back again. They applied and they told them lack of funds. Mr. Brown stated evidently they applied too late because that program through Tallahassee Community College only lasted three or four months. C. Police Chief Taves presenting plaques of appreciation for participation on beautification of the Police Station to Bertha Morin (C.A.P.S. Volunteer), The Yard Shop, Crown Tree Service and Coronado Paint Company Police Chief Taves commented on what the C.A.P.S. volunteers do. He commented on Bertha Morin cleaning up the outside of the Police Station. She solicited contributions from local companies to get the job done. He commented on paint received from Coronado Paint. The Yard Shop gave them red mulch. Crown Tree Service donated the use of their basket truck to pressure wash the CID building. Ms. Morin also donated some of the plants she had in her own yard to help beautify the front of the building. Police Chief Taves asked if David Dill was present from Coronado. He was not. He then asked if Jenny Jones from the Yard Shop was present. She was not. He then recognized Dan Grisell and Billy Goodwin from Crown Tree Service as well as Bertha Morin by presenting them with a plaque. He informed the Council they would deliver the other plaques to the individuals that were not present. Mayor Thomas moved Item 9A up on the agenda. 9A. Review/determination by Council relating to potential modifications to the General Employee Defined Benefit plan with Principal Financial Group Jack Ascherl stated Principal is telling him now they have gotten the basic information they need and they expect to have the draft of the Amendment as generally outlined in that retiree option page, they expect to have that by next week. It will be sent to the City and himself at the same time. They will be able to take a look at and meet with the Committee to see what amendments or changes have to be made. Essentially it is doing what the Retiree Options says. They wanted him to make sure the City understood they are working off of originally Scenario 1. They want Page 9 of 28 Regular Meeting October 18, 2007 to do a second actuarial cost estimate for this, which is what the Committee wanted. They will be working with the current figures the City is providing to them. The actuarial offset is for future accruals only. They also had the part about these people that are here through September 30th that they are getting the final increase, which was not in the original quote they gave before. With all of that hopefully it will be something that will be in the realm of what the goal is to get this accomplished. They should have the amendment next week, the actuarial evaluation will come a little later, once they get the new numbers and things from the City and the final outcome on what they want to do with it. Councilman Vincenzi stated they met a week ago Thursday and they are in limbo waiting for Principal to supply those figures. As soon as they get those they are going to meet. If they have them by next Friday they will meet the following Thursday, November 1st. They will discuss the changes and hopefully decide on a course of action. City Manager Williams stated they are certainly pursuing these modifications with an end result in mind. Obviously to get the modifications approved as it directly impacts their FY2008 operating budget. Mr. Ascherl referred to Options 1, 2 and 3 that were in the Retiree outline. He stated they are trying to put some general language to cover that but it is kind of difficult to put this in an amendment of the retirement plan saying they have the option of a pay raise or something like that. They are giving language that says it would be negotiated with the City. City Manager Williams stated that information was brought to his attention earlier in the week. He thinks if they are going to get the buy in they need from the employees and the comfort level with these modifications, they suggested they parenthesize and say for example a pay raise being moved over to the Defined Contribution but that information would be negotiated with the City. Mr. Ascherl stated it might say if they resign from the Defined Benefit Plan effectively they are eligible to go into the Defined Contribution Plan or whatever else the City might work out with them. 4. CITIZEN COMMENTS Page 10 0[28 Regular Meeting October 18,2007 The following citizens spoke: David Ross, 2803 Needle Palm Drive, informed Councilwoman Lichter he was looking forward to Saturday evening. He asked for a point of clarification. When there was a discussion about the exemption on the 35 foot height amendment, he believed Councilwoman Rogers was inquiring as to the concern of using commercial buildings for residential use and that if whatever the Council eventually lands or decides that the Land Development Code will allow commercial to go to assuming this passes, if they decide on 50 foot, 60 foot or 100 foot and for commercial the question never was answered to his knowledge that if it is commercial and there is a store on the first floor and you have four, five, six or ten stories above that with condominiums in it, will this be acceptable. He never heard an answer to that. He would like an answer within the next 1 minute and 24 seconds if possible. Councilwoman Rhodes thought that would go in the Land Development Code. City Manager Williams stated Mr. Lear was available to address that question. Mr. Lear stated it was his understanding that no residential was allowed. Mr. Ross stated no residential zoning would be permitted to be built. If it is commercial use, today people are living in commercial buildings legally. City Manager Williams thought he may be describing mixed use. Mr. Ross stated it doesn't have to be zoned as mixed use. If it is zoned as commercial can you reside in it legally? Mr. Lear stated it is not permitted in the commercial zoning. That is a legal non-conforming use that was carried on since before the Land Development Code was changed. Mr. Ross asked when it would cease. Mr. Lear informed him when that use ceases. Bill Glasser, 1703 Needle Palm Drive, stated he was looking for some information regarding the upcoming elections. He looked on the City's website and it says they are having a Regular (General) Election. He wondered if this was something unique to Edgewater. He didn't know if some poor, underpaid, overworked employee didn't know what word to use so they said it was a Regular General Election. He looked at other counties in the State and of the 57 counties that are holding elections in 2007, which is an odd year, 57 of them are having or have had General Elections. At this point he was very confused. He thought Page 11 of28 Regular Meeting October 18, 2007 maybe someone in Tallahassee could answer his question. He talked to a lady by the name of Bradshaw at the Division of Elections in Tallahassee and she explained the State Statutes to him. He spoke of things he found out not applying to municipalities. The State gives cities the responsibility and authority to hold their own elections based on their Charter and ordinances. He spoke of having some constitutional scholars from the audience, one even was a County Councilman, who chided them for thinking they could have a General Election in an odd year. He asked when a General Election is not a General Election. Is it just not a General Election when the City doesn't like a citizens' petition and doesn't want to put it on a ballot? Edgewater is holding a Regular General Election. He knows they are tired of hearing this but he is tired of hearing some of the excuses he has heard. He thinks it was very sad when there was nobody on the Council that had the intestinal fortitude to stand up for the voters who got the petition signed. Mayor Thomas informed Mr. Capria he had been talking in the back and it has been disturbing him. If he expects them to listen to him then he needs to sit back there and be respectful to them. He informed him this was a warning to him. Dominic Capri a , 606 Topside Circle, commented on the City Charter Reserve Fund. He knows he should know and either he missed that meeting or he didn't hear it because he was talking too much. The moneys that were put in the Reserve Fund to make up the 15% or whatever to make it legal, did that come from the sale of ParkTowne or did it come from some place else? Mayor Thomas asked Mr. Capria if he wanted them to answer that now. Mr. Capria informed him yes. City Manager Williams stated they sold the land and got our first distribution. As they discussed many times they took what was necessary to begin the funding of Base Leg Drive and Rowan Way so that money has been moved over into the Capital Projects Fund. The regular revenue was accounted for in the General Fund. They are focusing on cash. That is what the reserves are intended to be is 100% cash. With the final audit, they will do a budget to actual comparison and be able to better define the actual source of those cash reserves at that point in time. Mr. Capria stated in other words he isn't going to get an answer tonight. Page 12 of28 Regular Meeting October 18, 2007 Mr. Capria stated there are rumors that the Finance Director has resigned. He asked if that was true and asked why or if it was because of personal reasons. City Manager Williams stated he resigned and the resignation letter they have indicates he has decided to pursue his education. Carol Ann Stoughton, 2740 Evergreen Drive, stated she sat next to Mr. Capria and never heard him speak loud at all. She felt that was very rude. Perhaps he didn't hear some of the questions or answers that were given and he may have spoken to her or someone else. He didn't make annoyances in the back room. Mayor Thomas stated he was disturbing him. Ms. Stoughton stated excuse me she has the floor. Ms. Stoughton stated with regard to their budget, their police and their firemen. She made the suggestion once before. She feels the City should check with Volusia County. She has added up the police salaries are over $2,100,000. The firemen $1,720,000. She thinks they should go to the County and ask what they are paying or start outsourcing so they can help the taxpayers with their taxes and pay some of these salaries. She asked how much they get back from the County towards paying for our police and fire. She won't get an answer because nobody knows. It is a sad state of affairs that with these amounts they can't go to the County and ask them to help us out. With the taxes going down on the houses and the people moving out, where do they expect to get the moneys to keep these salaries in play? They have to go to the County and try to get them to kick in more money. If we give them $1 we get $.25 back. When she ran for office she had sixty signs stolen, gas dumped on her windshield and a flat tire. She feels this is a sad state of affairs in this City. Mayor Thomas stated the people have spoken. Dave St. Mire, 1914 Juniper Drive, asked Councilwoman Lichter if she was looking forward to retirement. Councilwoman Lichter stated it doesn't seem like it is ever going to end. Mr. St. Mire stated the last time he was here there was a gentleman that got up and accused the Council of being Nazi's. He thought there was a hammer and sickle hanging up there. Before this gentleman is ever allowed to speak in this room again he owes the Council, this room and the City an apology. The last meeting was getting kind of long and at the end of the evening quite a Page 13 of28 Regular Meeting October 18, 2007 few people wanted to speak. There was one Councilmember who used up 35 minutes of time trying to speculate as to what the City Manager was doing behind closed doors. It's none of anybody's business if he wants to pay pogo behind his closed door. He felt he was severely embarrassed by the insinuations and accusations in front of ,the whole Council and everyone that was there. He hopes they won't waste this amount of time again and use this time for important business of the Council. If something like that is in somebody's mind, they need to address the person personally and out of sight of the Council. Mr. St. Mire then commented on the people from ECARD. If they can't afford to live here there are other places in Florida or Georgia to go. They can't expect the City to come down with its expenses to allow them to live here. If they can't afford it they need to move out. 5. CITY COUNCIL REPORTS Councilwoman Rogers had nothing at this time. Councilman Vincenzi had nothing at this time. Councilwoman Rhodes stated her problem is not what he does behind closed doors. It is none of her business except when her tax dollars are paying for it. The only time she can discuss anything with any other Councilmembers is in public. She agreed. She did talk to him in private. They discussed it last year. She wanted to discuss it with the other Councilmembers. She doesn't have any other option. She would be more than happy to do it behind closed doors. She was not intending to embarrass City Manager Williams. She was intending to see that the reasons the taxpayers do not have to pay in instances of moral turpitude. Almost every contract under the sun has a morals clause in it. That was all she wanted. Councilwoman Lichter stated in terms of what is going on with the watered down Water Authority. For ten years she has taken Louise Martin's place on the Water Alliance. Councilwoman Lichter has served on the Water Alliance and the Water Authority. Yesterday was her last day in that capacity. She spoke of the problems they need to be aware of. It is a watered down Water Authority at the moment because the cities have not followed through with all working together with one heartbeat. It started with Page 14 of28 Regular Meeting October 18,2007 Daytona Beach breaking away and they have formed with the cities that buy water from them, a separate group on the east side. After that happened on the west side, they have constantly had this east side, west side syndrome of division with wetlands in between. The west side has formed a get together of three of the cities to talk about water situations and what they might do as a group. New Smyrna Beach has always believed in the united front of a water WAV group. New Smyrna Beach has not paid their last year's dues to the Water Authority and as of yesterday, they will getting a letter from the lawyer that they owe that money, which is leaving Edgewater by itself in this situation. She wanted to make some suggestions that would help them from being totally isolated, which she feels they are at the moment. She always, when it came to important decisions, talked them over with Mr. Wadsworth and the previous City Manager before an important water decision was made. She knew the Legislative aspect of it but she didn't know the financial or technical aspect of it. She always talked it over and felt this was good advice. She informed City Manager Williams that the Managers' meetings are vital for him to attend because that way he knows what is going on. What is going on at the particular moment is the TAC group, one person from each City are meeting, and they happen to disagree with St. Johns assessment of how bad the water situation is. They all know that in 10 to 12 years there will be a problem. It looks like St. Johns is going on possibilities maybe, not definite concrete facts. The TAC Committee has suggested that there be a study of all the cities being involved to see exactly what is underground and what it looks like. No more guessing. That will be brought up at the Managers' meeting and the next TAC meeting. They are a bit isolated. The aquifer that is under us doesn't stop with Volusia County. It is also up there in Seminole and Flagler and we are part of Brevard. She doesn't want to give up the thought that some day we may be doing something across the County level. We do not have to be isolated if we need to do something to help Edgewater. She feels they need to keep their eyes on this. She believes naturally they will end up working together but there will be some rough times in between. Councilwoman Lichter stated being called a Nazi, to her, nothing could have hurt her more. We are five generations in this country. Her great grandmother came from Germany and they are Jewish. When that man said that to her she has the same feelings in her arms now that she had when he Page 15 of28 Regular Meeting October 18, 2007 said that. If that woman didn't decide to come here during the Civil War, she would not be sitting on Council for ten years. It was like a double stab to her that he said it. She brought it up to him when it was the debate. She asked Mr. Cordeiro if he knew what he said to them. He said he didn't say it. There was an audience full of people that heard that and it is in the record. That is hurtful to her. She serves on the Council and has served on legislative bodies for a reason. She serves because it is her particular personal way of saying thank you to America for the freedoms we have. She does well in dealing with people and in being on a legislative body and it is her way of saying thank you to America. She has enjoyed many minutes with this group and past groups. Many minutes have not been so pleasant. She thanked everyone for giving her the opportunity of serving for ten years. Mayor Thomas stated he thinks the Water Authority is a very important body. What they are seeing is the other cities pullout because they are selfish. They want to pullout as much of that aquifer as they want to pullout. Here in Edgewater they are doing things such as the water restrictions and promoting xeriscaping. He thinks that is a very important thing. He plans on having an executive meeting after the election where they will divide up the boards and share the load. That is his plan on that. The Nazi thing touched him too. His father fought in World War II against the Japanese and the Nazis. It is unfortunate that the pendulum has swung so far in the other way that somebody could get up and say that. That is the way our country has gone. Councilwoman Lichter stated she has suggested to WAV a Water Summit. She feels there are a lot of new people on board and a few years back they had in Port Orange, a Water Summit and she thought they were going to work on that so they can hear a summary of all these things and many more that she has been telling them. There was a fifteen-minute recess at this time. The meeting recessed at 8:00 p.m. and reconvened at 8:15 p.m. 6. CONSENT AGENDA There were no items to be discussed on the Consent Agenda at this time. Page 16 of28 Regular Meeting October 18,2007 7. PUBLIC HEARINGS, ORDINANCES AND RESOLUTIONS A. Public Hearing, Nancy Lee Hansen on behalf of the Edgewater United Methodist Church, 211 North Ridgewood Avenue, requesting a Special Activity Permit for their annual Christmas Under the Palms Arts & Craft Show for December 8, 2007 Development Services Director Darren Lear made a staff presentation. Nancy Lee Hansen, 711 Egret Court, had no comments. Councilwoman Rhodes disclosed she was a member of this church. Due to there being no comments, Mayor Thomas opened and closed the public hearing and entertained a motion. Councilwoman Rogers moved to approve the Special Activity Permit for the Edgewater United Methodist Church for their annual Christmas Under the Palms Arts & Crafts Show for December 8, 2007, second by Councilwoman Rhodes. The MOTION CARRIED 5 - 0 . Councilwoman Rogers felt the Christmas Under the Palms was one of the best they have in the area. B. 1st Reading, Ord. 2007-0-17, Washington Park rezoning - amending the Official Zoning Map to include 42.55 acres of land located south of 35th Street and east of Travelers Palm Drive as R-3 (Single-Family Residential) Assistant City Attorney Ciocchetti read Ord. 2007-0-17 into the record. Development Services Director Lear made a staff presentation. Councilwoman Lichter questioned them making the lots larger. Mr. Lear informed her right now they are platted as 50 feet and they are making them 75 feet. Councilwoman Lichter asked if that was the only difference between those two zonings. Mr. Lear informed her R-2 requires 80 foot wide. They will be going to 75. Councilwoman Rhodes Page 17 of28 Regular Meeting October 18,2007 stated they are making them smaller. Mr. Lear stated it is going to a smaller requirement but right now they are platted at 50 feet. Mayor Thomas asked if they could build on 50 feet. Mr. Lear informed him not in the City so they have to rezone. They had the old plat when they were in the County. Councilwoman Lichter asked what the other differences were between R-2 and R-3 besides the width of the lot. Mr. Lear informed her the depth, 125' verses lIS' in the R-3. He informed Council the property owner's engineer was also available to answer questions. Mayor Thomas opened the public hearing. Councilwoman Rhodes stated she spoke to Ms. Matusick today and whoever makes the motion has to add to the motion that the Voting District is 4. On the paperwork it says two but it's not. Mayor Thomas closed the public hearing and entertained a motion. Councilwoman Lichter moved to approve Ord. 2007-0-17, amending the Official Zoning Map to rezone property from R- 2 Single-Family Residential to R-3, which will increase the lot width, which property will reside in voting District 4, second by Councilwoman Rogers. The MOTION CARRIED 5-0. C. 1st Reading, Ord. No. 2007-0-19, Massey - rezoning (airport area) - amending the Official Zoning Map to include 136 acres of land located along Air Park Road, Skyway Drive and Park Avenue as I-I (Light Industrial) Assistant City Attorney Ciocchetti read Ord. 2007-0-19 into the record. Development Services Director Lear made a staff presentation. Mayor Thomas opened the public hearing. The following citizen spoke: Pat Card, 3019 Willow Oak Drive, Planning & Zoning Board member, stated they have to believe that the Massey Airpark Page 18 of28 Regular Meeting October 18, 2007 lS one of the most valuable jewels in this City. Anything they can do to continue to effectively promote that asset, they ought to consider doing it. He favors this. Mayor Thomas closed the public hearing and entertained a motion. Councilwoman Rogers moved to approve Ord. 2007-0-19, amending the Official Zoning Map to include 136 acres of land located along Air Park Road, Skyway Drive and Park Avenue as I-I (Light Industrial), second by Councilwoman Rhodes. The MOTION CARRIED 5 - 0 . D. 1st Reading, Ord. 2007-0-20, Amendment to Articles III and XVIII of the Land Development Code to allow further consistency with RP (Residential Professional) zoning classification Assistant City Attorney Ciocchetti read Ord. 2007-0-20 into the record. Development Services Director Lear made a staff presentation. Mayor Thomas opened the public hearing. Councilwoman Lichter stated several times in the text of the ordinance, the word scrivener's is used, that they made errors. She asked what a scrivener is. Mr. Lear informed her who writes and types the ordinance. Assistant City Attorney Ciocchetti informed her it was a fancy way of saying there was a type-o. It sounds better than saying there was a type-o. Mayor Thomas closed the public hearing and entertained a motion. Councilwoman Rhodes moved to approve Ord. 2007-0-20, Amendment to Articles III and XVIII of the Land Development Code to allow further consistency with RP (Residential Professional) zoning classification, second by Councilwoman Lichter. The MOTION CARRIED 5-0. Page 19 of28 Regular Meeting October 18, 2007 8. BOARD APPOINTMENTS There were no Board Appointments at this time. 9. OTHER BUSINESS A. Review/determination by Council relating to potential modifications to the General Employee Defined Benefit Plan with Principal Financial Group This item was previously discussed on the agenda. B. Ingress/Egress and Fire Hydrant Maintenance Agreement - Riverside Village - review/approval by Council of the Agreement between the City of Edgewater and J.C. and Rosemary Carder Development Services Director Lear made a staff presentation. Mayor Thomas disclosed he met with Mr. Carder today. He pointed out where the driveway would go and where the driveway would be closed. The City is going to take over the fire hydrant. Due to there being no comments, Mayor Thomas opened and closed the public hearing and entertained a motion. Councilman Vincenzi moved to accept the proposed changes as stated, second by Councilwoman Rogers. The MOTION CARRIED 5 - 0 . 10. OFFICER REPORTS A. City Clerk City Clerk Wadsworth had nothing at this time. B. City Attorney 1) Memorandum relating to Potential Professional Liability Action Against Actuary Page 20 of 28 Regular Meeting October 18, 2007 Assistant City Attorney Ciocchetti commented on the memo in the agenda packet regarding the potential cause of action against an actuary for a professional liability. He informed the Council to direct any other questions to City Attorney Ansay. 2) Discussion on Jones representation Assistant City Attorney Ciocchetti explained Rodney Jones is seeking a Vested Rights Determination from the City. City Attorney Ansay previously represented Mr. Jones in an unrelated matter. They want to disclose that to Council and have the Council authorize the Mayor to enter into a waiver of any conflict of interest. They want to be overly cautious. They are asking the Council to grant the Mayor permission to sign off on any potential waiver over any conflict of interests that might arise. Councilwoman Rogers asked what areas he was looking to have the vested rights. City Manager Williams stated it is referencing a piece of property he owns slightly south of 10th Street. Councilwoman Rogers asked if it was where the athletic place is. Mr. Lear informed her it was north of Mission Oaks. Mayor Thomas confirmed that City Attorney Ansay was not representing them now and was representing the City. She just wanted to make the Council aware that she represented Mr. Jones in the past. Assistant City Attorney Ciocchetti informed him that was correct. An Attorney by the name of Scott Ross, who was associated with their firm, Mr. Jones is Mr. Ross' client. Mr. Ross was a partner of their firm and is now a partner of a law firm in Orlando and he has continued representation of Mr. Jones. He stated City Attorney Ansay assisted Mr. Ross at one point with the representation with Mr. Jones on a separate matter, unrelated. Assistant City Attorney Ciocchetti stated Mr. Jones and his related companies and Mr. Ross have signed off on any potential conflict of interest. Just to be overly cautious, they are asking for the same from the City. Councilwoman Lichter asked what Assistant City Attorney Ciocchetti wanted the Council to do. Councilwoman Rogers Page 21 of28 Regular Meeting October 18, 2007 stated give permission for the Mayor to sign a waiver. Councilwoman Lichter stated fine, she saw no conflict. Mayor Thomas entertained a motion. Councilwoman Rhodes made a motion that the Mayor can sign off on a conflict of interest in the representation of Carolyn Ansay with regard to Mr. Jones, second by Councilwoman Lichter. The MOTION CARRIED 5-0. Assistant City Attorney Ciocchetti commented on the Zeller/Greene lawsuit. The plaintiffs have agreed to voluntarily dismiss their suit without prejudice. The City filed a counter claim in that matter seeking permission to voluntarily dismiss our counter claim. They will reach finality of this matter. They can do this by consensus or a motion. Councilwoman Rogers asked if they dismissed theirs without prejudice, if the City was going to dismiss theirs without prejudice. Assistant City Attorney Ciocchetti informed her absolutely yes. Mayor Thomas entertained a motion. Councilwoman Lichter moved to authorize them to voluntarily dismiss this suit without prejudice, second by Councilman Vincenzi. The MOTION CARRIED 5 - 0 . Assistant City Attorney Ciocchetti stated on the ECARD petition west of 95. There was oral argument before Judge Roush this week and they are waiting on a ruling. C. City Manager City Manager Williams informed Council they are in the midst of finalizing an educational campaign for the City's proposed Charter amendment regarding the 35-foot height amendment. They have begun to mail out some educational information to absentee voters. They are scheduling a Town Hall meeting for November 1st at 7 p.m. to provide education to the voters prior to going to the polls. City Manager Williams stated they met with the FOP today and they made some mutual concessions. They feel like have Page 22 of28 Regular Meeting October 18, 2007 a very good contract, which they have sent back to their employees for ratification. The items of significant interest that remained open prior to negotiations were relating to overtime, injuries, sick and vacation cash in, holiday wages and the duration of the contract. They added some language that vacation leave that has not been submitted to prior to 14 calendar days shall not be considered hours worked for overtime. Injuries and employees on worker's compensation will be kept at full pay for 90 calendar days instead of 135 working days. They had the ability to cash in unlimited sick time. They brought back the old policy at the request of the FOP and that was once the employees hit the max of their bank, as an incentive for not using the time, they would be paid an extra days pay. That incentive was brought back. They changed the cash in for vacation from an unlimited amount to 80 and 84 hours respectively. They changed the holiday. If a holiday falls on employee's day off, rather than receiving that day in pay they will take that day off within 120 calendar days. with regard to wages. Obviously they are 18 days into the new fiscal year so retroactivity was a big concern. The FOP brought forward the suggestion that if they were to accept the 3% would the City be willing to pay retroactivity. He conceded to it and said as long as they ratify the contract within the next two weeks. The duration of the agreement would be for three years. Every year they would reopen wages for future discussion because of the uncertainties regarding property taxes. Each side will have the option of opening two additional articles. They have had a little bit of a wrench thrown in the works. While this was going on the employees in the Police Department were actively considering switching to another union. They held the vote and it is his understanding the Teamsters is the new union that will be voted in. They don't know what will happen with this contract at this point in time. City Manager Williams advised Council of the fund raising initiative going on for Billy Bowers Memorial Fund, who was a 21 year old man who perished in car accident in July. He was in his 3rd year at UCF pursuing a physical education degree and he was instrumental in developing a lot of the programs at the YMCA. He was very active in our community, especially with the youth. They had their first fund raiser and have raised over $3,500 to date. They are scheduling a second one for November 10th with the hopes of raising an additional $2,500. They are actively soliciting Page 23 of 28 Regular Meeting October 18, 2007 local contractors for donations. They have received pledges for a variety of materials and services at a reduced cost or for free. He wanted to present the idea if Council wishes to entertain a motion of waiving all permit fees and associated costs with the donation of the Memorial that is going to take place at the Hawks Park facility. It will be a gazebo. There will be architectural plans and it will go through the formal review cost. He thought it would be a nice contribution should Council wish to entertain that motion. Councilwoman Rhodes had no problem with this. It is for the public use. Councilwoman Rhodes made a motion that all permit fees be waived for the Memorial, second by Councilwoman Lichter. The MOTION CARRIED 5-0. Mayor Thomas stated they are supposed to be updated on the Shuffleboard Courts at every other meeting. City Manager Williams informed him it was in his in-basket and it did not make it to the Council agenda. He agreed to include it on the next agenda. It was an oversight on his part. Mayor Thomas stated the Police Department took on a new policy and each officer on the day shift has to make two citizen contacts and one business contact. He saw it and really got excited. Nobody better knows what is going on in the community than the citizens and business owners. He asked when it started. Police Chief Taves informed him Monday. Mayor Thomas read an e-mail from a citizen that already commented on this. Mayor Thomas stated he had somebody mention we have a beautiful entrance coming off SR 442 but when you come in the north side, there is a sign that says Edgewater City limits. He didn't know what they could do about it. Councilwoman Rhodes stated the Chamber was supposed to put signs there. City Manager Williams stated as a result of the widening of 10th Street, the old shopping center was purchased by Volusia County and it has been identified when funding is available it could potentially be a stormwater retention pond. He has discussed with Gerald Brinson on multiple occasions that the City would be interested in partnering with making that a nice entryway feature into Edgewater. They are constantly making their presence and their wishes very well known. Councilwoman Rhodes thought the College might want to partner with them as well. In Page 24 of 28 Regular Meeting October 18, 2007 exchange for some help, maybe they are on the sign with an arrow showing how to get there. Mayor Thomas stated he is proud of Edgewater and people get confused and think New Smyrna Beach is Edgewater. He thinks a really nice sign like on SR 442 would be really nice. Councilwoman Rhodes agreed. They addressed that a long time ago and you see what happens. Councilwoman Rogers stated they all received a letter from the Pet Society in reference to the animal cages. She asked City Manager Williams if he had responded. City Manager Williams informed her they had not. They are compiling their costs to present back to them. Part of the agreement they struck with them with returns to this money, is they provided staff, a backhoe, and shell for the project, and they are identifying the costs and quantities that were provided in providing that cost back to them. Councilwoman Rogers asked if that was initially discussed. Councilwoman Rhodes stated it was about animal cages. City Manager Williams stated that is their interpretation. Councilwoman Lichter stated they have met now and have kind of reconciled the situation. The Finance Director left in the middle of this whole thing. Councilwoman Rogers stated she wanted to make sure they aren't going to get another letter that indicates they haven't responded. City Manager Williams stated he would like the opportunity to speak with each Councilmember individually privately before discussing this publicly. Councilwoman Lichter asked when bids were going out for the shelter. City Manager Williams stated last time staff met, they set a two-week deadline for the RFP to be finalized and advertised. To his knowledge, that two week deadline will be next Tuesday. They hope it will be finalized by next Tuesday. Councilwoman Lichter stated otherwise they are going to be hearing from her sitting in the audience. 1) Tentative Agenda Items There were no Tentative Agenda Items to be discussed at this time. 11. CITIZEN COMMENTS The following citizens spoke: Page 25 of 28 Regular Meeting October 18, 2007 Bill Glasser, 1703 Needle Palm Drive, stated he is not a member of ECARD. He gets upset when people give him a hum job and essentially tell him to sit down, shut up and pay his taxes and also tell him since he wasn't born and raised in Edgewater he doesn't deserve an opinion. Back on October 3rd, the Firefighters held a meet the candidates forum. He was reading the headline that said residents all ears at public forum. It said they had about 80 folks show up. He commented on the headline for New Smyrna Beach being Voters pack in to hear hopefuls. They must have had like 2,000 people show up in New Smyrna Beach and it was sponsored by the League of Women Voters and the New Smyrna Branch of the American Association of University Women. They had about 100 people show up. A different person wrote each article. Their perspective on what folks are packing in and folks are just all ears is pretty funny. Dominic Capri a , 606 Topside Circle, commented on the City sending something out to the people to educate them about the 35-foot height limit. He asked what it would cost the taxpayers and who was going to write it. He stated memorandum related to Potential professional liability action against actuary which memo was given to City Councilmembers. He asked for someone to tell them briefly what that was. Councilwoman Rhodes informed him they asked their Attorney to look into possible litigation against the actuary who gave them the pension numbers. City Manager Williams stated Council approved hiring a political consultant, with the survey that was sent out, and that individual has helped draft that information and they have budgeted for it appropriately in the FY2008 budget for $5,000. Mr. Capria stated if the people aren't educated now they never. will be. Dave St. Mire, 1914 Juniper Drive, stated he understood there was a push being made to extend SR 442 west. From his recollections of dealing with the County in past, he thought there was a projection that had been there a long time to take this over and connect into Deltona. To him, being here through several fires and hurricanes, we really don't have the westward exit from this area. He asked if anything has been pursued any further on extending that to SR 415. He feels by doing so they may get more important traffic coming in generating bigger businesses to be built on SR 442. There was a sign out there at one time for this push and it has disappeared into thin area. Councilwoman Lichter stated the thin air is called wetlands. Page 26 of 28 Regular Meeting October 18, 2007 Councilwoman Rogers stated the bottom line lS money. Councilwoman Lichter stated the signs were on private property. Mayor Thomas asked Councilwoman Rogers if she had any other information due to sitting on the MPO. Councilwoman Rogers stated no money. Mayor Thomas stated they would have to cross Spruce Creek Swamp. Councilwoman Rhodes stated in effect it would have to be a total bridge the whole way. Councilwoman Rogers stated there are still three different studies. Carol Ann Stoughton, 2740 Evergreen Drive, asked if they are using the same firm they used the last time to select people a supposed vision that they paid $12,000 or $13,000. City Manager Williams stated he didn't know the name off the top of his head but informed her yes. Ms. Stoughton asked if they ever put those things out to bid. City Manager Williams informed her the City is not required to do it under $50,000. Ms. Stoughton asked why they chose that person. City Manager Williams informed her they worked with all the cities when they came together to address the Volusia County Charter Amendments. They are very reputable. They have a very good track record. Ms. Stoughton asked if they would be consulting as they have in the past with the firefighters and S2 Advertising also for this campaign. City Manager Williams stated he had no conversation with S2 Advertising so that is a false statement. He will talk to all the employees about the importance of this height amendment as it relates to the City's future regarding Economic Development. Ms. Stoughton stated and you will never stop trying to shove it down the voters. Irregardless, Jerry Doty, S2 Advertising. She had e-mails from City manager Williams to him. City Manager Williams stated he didn't talk to Jerry Doty. He responded to Don Mears. He doesn't personally know Jerry Doty. Ms. Stoughton stated she didn't say whether he knew him personally not but his name, Mr. Mears name, which is Restorations. She asked City Manager Williams if he ever checked to see that Lowes was not accepted in New Smyrna Beach. She asked if they could ever go and try to get those companies to come here instead of annexing houses. Do they ever try to get businesses in our town? City Manager Williams felt the timing of Ms. Stoughton's question was good. He had breakfast with Jack Hayman, the Mayor of New Smyrna Beach, Ken Parker and they talked about the possibility of bringing Lowes to the City of Edgewater and they also talked about Walmart. Ms. Stoughton informed him they are not over 35-foot. Page 27 of 28 Regular Meeting October 18, 2007 Pat Card, 3019 Willow Oak Drive, commented on where his parents were born. His daddy once told him there are two kinds of people in the world. One kind tries really hard to do things and lots of times screw it up. The other group just bitch about it all the time. Mayor Thomas stated his daddy told him you can fool all of the people some of the time and some of the people all of the time but you can't fool all of the people all of the time. 12 . ADJOURNMENT There being no further business to discuss, Councilwoman Rhodes moved to adjourn. The meeting adjourned at 8:55 p.m. Minutes submitted by: Lisa Bloomer Page 28 of 28 Regular Meeting October 18,2007