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12-03-2007 - Regular CITY COUNCIL OF EDGEWATER REGULAR MEETING DECEMBER 3, 2007 7:00 P.M. COMMUNITY CENTER MINUTES 1. CALL TO ORDER Mayor Thomas called the Regular Meeting to order at 7:00 p.m. in the Community Center. ROLL CALL Mayor Michael Thomas Councilwoman Debra Rogers Councilwoman Gigi Bennington Councilwoman Harriet Rhodes Councilman Ted Cooper City Manager Jon Williams City Clerk Susan Wadsworth Deputy City Clerk Lisa Bloomer City Attorney Carolyn Ansay Present Present Present Present Present Present Excused Present Present INVOCATION, PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE There was a silent invocation and pledge of allegiance to the Flag. 2. APPROVAL OF MINUTES A. Regular Meeting of September 10, 2007 Councilwoman Rhodes moved to approve the September 10, 2007 minutes, second by Councilwoman Rogers. Councilwoman Bennington asked if they legally could vote on the minutes if they weren't at the meeting. City Attorney Ansay informed her yes. The MOTION CARRIED 5-0. 3. PRESENTATIONS/PROCLAMATIONS/PLAQUES/CERTIFICATES/DON ATIONS Page 1 of 45 Council Regular Meeting December 3, 2007 A. Presentation by Bob Williams, CEO of Bert Fish Medical Center regarding Inpatient Pediatrics Bob Williams, CEO, Bert Fish Medical Center, stated unfortunately there is a misinformation campaign going on. It is being waged in this community. It is a campaign that apparently is designed to hurt the hospital with negative and some untruthful statements. He has been informed that several of the Council had received telephone calls or letters as part of this misinformation campaign. He wanted to set the record straight. The children of Edgewater and throughout Southeast Volusia County have been and are and will be treated at Bert Fish Medical Center. In the last year they saw over 5,000 children come through their emergency room. In the year to come that number will increase. Every single one of those children will receive the highest quality care and attention from a very professional staff of nurses and doctors who work in the emergency room. If a child or grandchild or any child is sick or injured in this community, do not hesitate to bring them to Bert Fish. He commented on what recently occurred. Over several months their very smart and loyal medical staff leadership worked with Hospital Administration to discuss the best possible way to deal with those few children who in the course of a year might have to be moved from their emergency room to what is called an inpatient bed, which is upstairs in their hospital. The experts they rely on say that as they move forward that if a child requires hospitalization and needs to move out of their emergency room and into an inpatient bed, the child is best served by being in a hospital where there is a large number of pediatric nurses and physicians who focus only on children and who have the proper equipment, training and experience to treat those most precious gifts, your children and mine. Because they don't have a large number of pediatric admissions each year, their staff can't keep competency and skill levels in pediatric care. They cannot consider a nurse competent in pediatric care if he or she does not practice that care on a larger number of children every year. The medical staff and nurses they count on to know such things recommended that they continue to treat all children who come to their emergency room but for those 50 or so children a year that will require inpatient care, because they are so sick or injured that they have to go to an inpatient bed in hospital, they will facilitate the transfer of the child to Halifax or Arnold Palmer Children's Hospital. Halifax has a very popular Page 2 of 45 Council Regular Meeting December 3, 2007 '- Speediatrics Program. It is complete with several pediatric specialists. Those specialists are individuals they don't have in Southeast Volusia County. Everyone knows the great reputation of Arnold Palmer Children's Hospital in Orlando. He suggested they be clear on numbers. While they have over 5,000 pediatric visits in their emergency department every year, the number of children that have been admitted up into the hospital, out of the emergency department was only around 50 this past year. When someone says they are talking about 25% of our population, they are trying to mislead them. This decision surrounds only 50 children a year, wh~ch is an average of 1 per week. If someone tells them they have an entire floor of their hospital that is closed, they aren't dealing with fact. Every floor of Bert Fish Hospital is open and operational. Bert Fish Medical Center has never had a pediatric unit up in the hospital. Children are not little adults. It's not a smart thing to put children in an adult intensive care unit, which is populated with adults who bring a wide variety of infections and other bad things when those adults are admitted to the intensive care unit. They have determined, collectively at Bert Fish, to put a child in that setting is actually placing that child at more risk and they and parents don't want to do that. This recent decision means they will actually be doing a better job for their children because of the expansion of service they will develop in the emergency room. In the first quarter of next year, they will open the first ever Twilight Pediatric Program at Bert Fish in New Smyrna Beach. That program will provide care for our children when pediatricians and other doctors have gone home for the day. That Twilight Pediatric Service will be staffed with pediatric nurses and a pediatrician and will be a Godsend for parents and children in Southeast Volusia. They agreed the implementation of these most recent decisions could have been communicated better, not only to the medical staff but throughout the entire community. He apologized and stated clearly in the future they will do a much better job at communicating going forward. Tonight it is about setting the record straight so there is no confusion. Do not let a campaign of misinformation lead you or any other resident of Edgewater to believe they cannot bring their child to their hospital. They can and should. They can feel safe and confident about bringing their children to the emergency room or next year the Twilight Pediatric Service, when it begins in the first part of 2008. He also had with him Dr. Tom Ownby. He was there in four roles, a Page 3 of 45 Council Regular Meeting December 3,2007 taxpaying resident of Edgewater, a parent, the Chairman of Southeast Volusia Hospital District Board, and a well respected long-standing physician in our community. He thinks between the two of them they are confident they could answer any questions the Council might have. He thanked the Council for their time and attention. Councilwoman Rhodes stated Mr. Williams said children are going to get better care now. What about all the children in the past? Did they not get adequate care? Her child has been in Bert Fish over a period of 20 years several time. Mr. Williams asked about the care she got. Councilwoman Rhodes stated fine she guessed. She is still alive. How come on this day in this year care is not adequate but prior to this day and this year the care was deemed adequate? Dr. Ownby stated the majority of the pediatric patients treated at Bert Fish got excellent care. The problem is a child could look okay and then the child goes bad on you. A child can get extremely critically sick very fast. Those children have no business being in Bert Fish because they don't have a pediatric intensive care unit. Most all of the pediatric patients have received excellent care. Every once in a while they have had to transfer a patient out that was very seriously ill. It is difficult to transfer a seriously ill patient out. They are very unstable. There is a potential of them dying on the way to Halifax. Finally everybody said for that percentage of patients it's not worth risk. They don't know if a patient is going to go bad or not. They don't want a really bad pediatric case to be in Bert Fish. They don't have a pediatric care ICU or regularly fully devoted pediatric nurses. They only have one pediatric doctor on staff. They don't have any pediatric sub specialists to take care of those critically ill pediatric patients like they do at Halifax. When you first admit a patient you can't always tell that they are going to do well. They can't tell if they are going to go bad. That is the basic problem. They didn't want to wait until something bad happened. The doctors and nurses have looked at this for quite a while. They are trying to do the right thing for children. Councilwoman Rhodes commended them for that. She stated that Mr. Williams just said that the Twilight pediatric clinic that starts next year is going to have pediatric nurses and pediatricians. Dr. Ownby stated those are to treat outpatients. They have nothing to do with inpatient admissions. They are not going to come down here and be on staff. They are outpatient pediatricians. There Page 4 of 45 Council Regular Meeting December 3,2007 is a big difference between outpatient pediatrics and hospital pediatrics. Councilwoman Rhodes stated but yet all pediatricians treat outpatient pediatric patients and most of them treat inpatient pediatrics. Dr. Ownby stated Dr. Garcia-Pilcheck does not admit pediatric patients to any hospital. She does outpatient pediatrics, which is fine. She is an excellent pediatrician. Councilman Cooper stated as the population grows and the City fills and they are handling Southeast Volusia County, isn't there a hospital regulation or restriction that mandates that they start acquiring proper pediatricians according to the population in the area and they provide that service. Mr. Williams asked what mandate he was referring to. Councilman Cooper stated he runs nursing homes and he seems to be mandated by everything. With our population growing and Bert Fish being with them as long as they have been with us, it would seem normal that they would be soliciting from the community of pediatricians and doctors in this area that they would have proper staffing within the hospital so a family doesn't have to in a very bad case run all the way to Orlando with the traffic to visit their son or daughter. He was concerned with the term facilitate getting them there. Dr. Ownby just reiterated that that is not something they want to do be doing but that is exactly what they just told them they were going to do. Mr. Williams stated Councilman Cooper runs nursing homes and is familiar with nursing homes and hospitals are ten times as regulated than nursing homes. Hospitals are regulated all the way around with agency after agency nationally and statewide, federally. There is no mandate that says what Councilman Cooper said. They have always dealt with pediatric patients in the emergency room. They deal with any patient that comes to the emergency room. Every patient that comes to the emergency room gets treated. That is going to continue forever. When a patient presents to Bert Fish's emergency room, the question becomes does Bert Fish have the resources, the specialists, the equipment, the facility to care for that patient. Regardless of what age they are. That has to be determined by the physicians in the emergency department. If they do, they are treated in the emergency department and they go home. If they can't go home and they are so sick and they have the resources, they are admitted into the hospital and they have physicians that can do surgery Page 5 of 45 Council Regular Meeting December 3, 2007 that is necessary. Cardiologists can do the cardiology. If any patient needs a level of care that Bert Fish cannot provide they arrange to transfer that patient to a facility, a hospital, some place in Florida, whether by helicopter or by ambulance where they can get the care they need. They don't do neurosurgery. They will stabilize the patient and transfer that patient. Likewise cardiovascular surgery, they don't have cardiovascular surgeons. Part of it is that back to pediatrics, when have a child that is treated in the office or after hours type of office, that is an outpatient child. Pediatricians do most childcare in their offices throughout the country. When that child is so sick and so injured and they are brought to their emergency room, most of time, 5,000 visits a year, they are able to treat them in the emergency room and then they are able to go home. They are more sick than if they went to their doctor's office. There comes a point where just like they are so sick and so injured and need so much care that they don't have it. They believe that parents want their children in the best place possible to get that care. That is the whole principle. They don't have the numbers of pediatric inpatients up in hospital. They have lots of numbers of the urgent care pediatric, 500-a year. If he wants open-heart surgery, he is going to go some place where that surgeon does open heart surgery. He would like the surgeon to do it every day of week, not once a month. That is the whole principle. Councilman Cooper stated he thinks the concern raises. They are providing the care. If they can stabilize a patient, whether 1 day or 101 years old, they stabilize and transfer. His concern would be if a child falls out of a tree and he has a real bad compound fracture and he has lost a lot of blood, could they treat that? Mr. Williams stated the answer is yes. Councilman Cooper stated do you have that capability and expertise in the hospital to take care of individual until they can stabilize and transfer that patient. Mr. Williams stated that is the misinformation campaign that has been going around. They have always done that and always will do that. Councilman Cooper asked if there is a time period or is it a number for the hospital that they need to get to before they will have a full-blown pediatric wing. Mr. Williams stated there is not a magic number for that. Someone asked them the other day, they are here in Edgewater and Southeast Volusia being faced with big influx of people. Page 6 of 45 Council Regular Meeting December 3, 2007 They get to a point where they would have high volumes of children that need to have inpatient care they obviously would readdress that at point in time. At this point in time with the numbers they have and the issues they are talking about, the medical staff and the administration would be irresponsible to take a chance on your child next time per chance something went wrong when he was in the hospital. They are taking the responsible position of making sure that nothing bad happens with these small children. Dr. Ownby stated there are some anti tax people in here. He is too. Some of things they are talking about in the future may necessitate more tax money. They can't have one side and the other. There are two factions in there and they are stuck in the middle on this. Councilwoman Rogers stated when they initially begin talking it sounded to her like it was a lot of statistics. He said because there has not been a large number of admissions because there are 50 patients per year. Then he went on to say about the better job for our children and basically that is a cost savings, a benefit to Bert Fish. Then as other Councilmembers have brought up the population increase. Edgewater, New Smyrna Beach, Port Orange, granted it is closer to Halifax but some parents may want to send their kids this way. They also have Oak Hill. Her concern is what can they do to accommodate the need they have here. They are doing certain things by taking in patients in the emergency room, and treating them and stabilizing them and transporting them, and they mentioned Arnold Palmer. What if someone has Florida Health Care Plans, does Arnold Palmer accept that. Arnold Palmer is in Orange County. Councilwoman Rhodes stated they do accept it. Her daughter has been there. Councilwoman Rogers stated she was asking Mr. Williams if Arnold Palmer would accept Florida Health Care. She asked him if that was true. Mr. Williams stated there are two different types of transfer, emergency room to emergency room transfer. Councilwoman Rogers stated wouldn't that reduce the amount of insurance coverage. If you go out of the area or network, you don't always get that same percentage. Wouldn't it reduce the amount then the person is going to have to put more out of pocket. She asked if anyone has anyone looked into that. If you go out of area sometimes it is 50%. Page 7 of 45 Council Regular Meeting December 3, 2007 Mr. Williams asked Councilwoman Rogers how much out of pocket might it be. The question is this is it worth $100 or $50 for his child to be at risk. It's not. Councilwoman Rogers stated she knew that but what she was referring to was if somebody had to be transferred and they had surgery, would the insurance then only pay 50% and then you are putting out 50% of what the total surgical cost is. Mr. Williams stated he understood the question but he couldn't answer it 100%. Every child in Florida has the ability to be covered with some type of insurance. There are no charity children. Councilwoman Rogers stated if they had the care that is needed at Bert Fish and it was a Florida Health Care Plans there would be less liability on the part of the parent. There are people losing homes because of the adjustable rate mortgages. What are they going to do now? Lose homes because they have liens filed on it because they can't afford to pay the medical bill and then they are having to deal with the financial end as well as the needs of child. She is just looking further down. Dr. Ownby stated Florida Health Care is a main subdivision of Halifax Hospital. Councilwoman Rogers stated she was referring to Arnold Palmer in Orlando. Dr. Ownby asked why anybody's child would be sent to Arnold Palmer. There are some highly, highly specialized things that Arnold Palmer does that even Halifax doesn't do. If Halifax doesn't do them, they sure aren't going to be doing it. They do want their child taken care of no matter what it costs. If they have Florida Health Care they would need to talk to their insurance people. Councilwoman Rogers stated they just did this and didn't plan for it. Dr. Ownby stated what Councilwoman Rogers is telling him is that somebody is going to go to Arnold Palmer. That means they would never have what we need here. They wouldn't be staying here anyway. Councilwoman Rogers stated based upon what Bert Fish Medical Center has recently done with this new rule, if she understands this correctly, is people that have the health insurance now, don't have enough time to change their health insurance and plan for this kind of emergency. Bert Fish made this change recently. How long ago the change was made? Mr. Williams suggested they go back to the original question. They are just throwing all kinds of questions out. He asked Councilwoman Rogers which question she would like him to answer? Councilwoman Rogers asked when did you Page 8 of 45 Council Regular Meeting December 3, 2007 make this effective and when they did it did they think about the additional burden that the consumers in this area are going to have to put out if their child has to be transported to a hospital in Orlando, specifically Arnold Palmer. She already knows the answer and he has already given it. He doesn't know and didn't look into it. Mr. Williams assured her that 99% of the patients that were in their hospital over the last year or close to that, 80%, got put in hospital are going to be treated in emergency department. Councilwoman Bennington stated they are talking about emergency admitting, kids that have come through the emergency room. They are saying right now they only have 1 pediatrician in the area that does in office treatment. Mr. Williams stated they have one pediatrician on their medical staff, Dr. Carithers, who routinely has chosen to admit his patients into Bert Fish. Councilwoman Bennington stated Dr. Carithers was her granddaughter's pediatrician. Now they are taking his ability away to admit his patients into the hospital and they have to go to Halifax. He has to either travel up there and the patient's parents have to go up there on a regular basis while they are admitted or it's added cost. In that aspect by doing the Twilight clinic they are talking about, here again they are talking about emergency admitting. They are limiting the pediatricians that would want to come into this area by not offering them the ability to have pediatric care at our hospital. Mr. Williams stated it may sound that way. If they had their surgeons and anesthesiologists here tonight, they would say when any pediatrician, Dr. Carithers and they do have another pediatrician in New Smyrna that just opened her practice as well as Dr. Pilchek. When Dr. pilcheck has to admit a patient into the hospital, where does she admit that patient? She admits that patient to Halifax for the reasons they are talking about. If they had their anesthesiologist here tonight he would tell them of the 50 patients that were in the hospital last year, 11 of them needed to be put to sleep for surgical procedure by a surgeon who doesn't have pediatric training or pediatric experience. Councilwoman Bennington stated she understood that. Her point was by stopping that, which they have had ongoing forever, admitting them, they have taken away a resource of pediatricians that would want to come in to our area, they are forcing them to go to Halifax when they would rather have doctors here for in-office treatment because of that reason. Mr. Williams stated they would Page 9 of 45 Council Regular Meeting December 3, 2007 too. They have sat down with Dr. Carithers and worked out a way that he understands that most of the patients that he has been admitting can be dealt with and treated very well in this expanded emergency room environment. They don't have to go upstairs in the hospital. Councilwoman Bennington felt Mr. Williams was missing her point. They are taking that resource away. Mr. Williams stated the only resource they are taking away is the ability for, most of the time their emergency physicians, not the pediatricians, a child comes to the emergency room sick or injured, 99.9% of the time they are going to deal with that child in the emergency room. The .1% means a child is so very sick that they need care they can't provide there anyway. Councilwoman Bennington stated what it boils down to is they don't have the numbers. Mr. Williams stated that is exactly what they are saying. They don't have the numbers of inpatient kids that are really sick and injured so their nurses, anesthesiologists, surgeons and cardiologists, all the medical people that back up the pediatrician that they mayor may never see. Councilwoman Rhodes stated over the last year they had 11 kids that were put to sleep and had surgery. Obviously that anesthesiologist and that surgeon felt competent to do that. If they didn't, that shouldn't have happened to them. She doesn't understand how on this day they aren't competent but last year at the same time they were. Dr. Ownby stated if they would have been at the Hospital Board meeting, they would have heard doctor after doctor stand up and address this. The surgeon says he doesn't have adequate pediatric experience anymore to do that. Councilwoman Rhodes asked why those patients weren't transferred to Halifax? Dr. Ownby stated it is very hard for a doctor to get a patient transferred. It is very hard to transfer a sick child from Bert Fish to Halifax under those circumstances. That is why the doctors were feeling very uncomfortable with the situation. The ICU nurses that had to take care of the children were feeling very uncomfortable. Councilwoman Rhodes stated and they just became uncomfortable this year. Why weren't they uncomfortable ten years ago? Dr. Ownby guessed they didn't want to go through this. Councilwoman Rhodes stated they aren't going through anything. They already did it. Dr. Ownby stated he has better things to do than stand up there and be barbequed. Councilwoman Rhodes stated she was trying Page 10 of 45 Council Regular Meeting December 3, 2007 to find out why when the care was adequate last year and why is it not adequate this year. People in the audience stated money and no profit. Councilwoman Rhodes stated and she understands it is money. Mr. Williams stated so that is the real question, money? Councilwoman Rhodes stated she didn't know what other reason it could be. Councilwoman Rogers stated because there wasn't a large number of admissions. Mr. Williams mentioned adequate care. If they wanted adequate care they probably could have continued it. Councilwoman Rhodes stated she wants the very best care for her child that she can get. If the very best care wasn't at Bert Fish they should have said they couldn't give her the very best care and that they needed to go to Halifax. She would have been out of there in a New York minute. Nobody ever said that. Mr. Williams stated and now the medical staff has stepped up to the late along with the other medical staff members and surgeons and are saying that. Councilwoman Rhodes stated so for twenty years her kid got adequate care instead of good care but now they are going to rectify the situation. Mr. Williams stated Councilwoman Rhodes asked the question and he answered it. He didn't want to get into a heated debate. He would be glad to talk about it and they could sit down and get into all details. In terms of dollars since everyone thinks this is a business decision. How much money do you think that the hospital paid for pediatric care last year? Councilwoman Rhodes stated she had no idea. Councilwoman Bennington asked Mr. Williams when he says the hospital, exactly what he meant, the hospital or the taxpayers. Mr. Williams stated both. The taxpayers in Southeast Volusia, property owners, send in a check and that money covers forty percent of the on compensated care of everybody that cannot afford care, not just pediatrics. The other sixty percent is covered by the hospital. Councilwoman Bennington stated when you get right down to it the hospital is the people that use the services that their insurance pays or they pay themselves. They charge people to use hospital. Mr. Williams stated sure. Councilwoman Bennington stated so the people that don't have insurance or can't afford to pay, our tax dollars pay for them, that covers 40%. Mr. Williams confirmed that was what he had just said. Councilwoman Bennington asked where they get the other 60%. It is from the people that pay to use hospital facilities. Mr. Williams stated it is from the insurance companies, it's from Medicare. Councilwoman Bennington stated what Mr. Williams was saying is the taxpayers one way or another pay for the hospital. When he Page 11 of 45 Council Regular Meeting December 3,2007 says the hospital pays, he means the whole community at large pays. Mr. Williams stated the community at large through tax dollars contribute to about 10% of the revenue of the hospital. He didn't want to get into a tax discussion. He wanted to go back to pediatrics and pediatric care, they send more money out of here towards Healthy Kids to cover it, Mental Health services to cover it, then they do spending for the 50 admissions. This is not a business issue. Councilwoman Bennington stated so what has happened is the surgeons, anesthesiologists, and nurses have all stepped up and finally said they don't feel comfortable with level of care they are providing the pediatric patients. Mr. Williams stated when they are up in the bed. Councilwoman Bennington stated once they go through the emergency. Mr. Williams once emergency says they need to admit this patient because they are so sick absolutely right. Councilwoman Bennington confirmed that was how they finally came to the conclusion to take this step. Mr. Williams stated it is the medical staff and the nursing staff that have said. Councilwoman Bennington stated have finally stepped up and said they aren't comfortable. Mr. Williams stated that is the whole situation. Councilman Cooper stated Bert Fish is a community hospital and like they just established the money is paid whether it be the insurance, whether it be the taxpayer, whatever. His concern is although they have done this program and going forward with it, has anybody set the program when the Twilight Pediatric wing will become a full blown pediatric wing where full services will be provided to this community. He wanted to know when. Mr. Williams stated the Twilight pediatric service will in affect be a doctor's office after hours and weekend service. Councilman Cooper stated so it is just going to be an extension of the emergency care. Mr. Williams confirmed that was correct. Councilman Cooper again asked what is the plan for a full- blown pediatric wing to take care of the children of this community. Mr. Williams asked if he was talking about up in the hospital. He stated they have no current plans for that. They don't have the volumes or the money. They don't have a reason to do that right now. Councilman Cooper stated he is a professor of long term planning and it's not even a plan. Mr. Williams stated they do not have a current plan to put in a pediatric wing. They will look at that as the volumes of pediatric patient needs grow. Page 12 of 45 Council Regular Meeting December 3, 2007 Councilman Cooper stated what he is looking at is, maybe they have not noticed all the new schools they have just built and there is going to be a lot more kids coming to our area and it seems like a need that the community would be wanting. Dr. Ownby stated the Hospital Board of Commissioners has a regular Strategic Planning Board meeting every couple of months or every month and those types of things are addressed on a regular basis. As soon as the numbers and the demand justifies it to provide adequate, a very good excellent service, he assured him that the Hospital Board of Commissioners will start providing some impotence to the medical staff and administration to do this. They have to have to have numbers. Councilman Cooper stated they would love to have it in that Board's plan and get it out for discussion and let the community know there is something coming sooner or later. Dr. Ownby stated their crystal ball is broken right now so he didn't' know when that will happen but he assured him they have the Strategic Planning Committee meeting on a regular basis and they are always looking to the needs of community to expand their services. Councilman Cooper stated he feels inept to not knowing what the number would be, how many children verses population. Dr. Ownby stated it's not right now and that is clear and probably not next year. The way the Hospital Board is structured they meet in Strategic Planning as well as quality committee issues on regular basis and they are always looking at things. Mayor Thomas thanked Mr. Williams and Dr. Ownby and informed them when they build a hospital in Edgewater, maybe they will plan a pediatrics wing. Mr. Williams stated keep those babies coming. 4. CITIZEN COMMENTS The following citizens spoke: Delores Maylone, 204 S. Myrtle Ave, New Smyrna Beach, stated even though she is not a resident of Edgewater she hoped they did not mind that she came to the Council tonight. She was speaking about the loss of pediatric inpatient services that the Board of Governors of Fish Hospital, which is also the Southeast Volusia Hospital Page 13 of 45 Council Regular Meeting December 3,2007 Taxing Authority, voted to discontinue at their last meeting with Mayor Sally McKay, two New Smyrna Beach Commissioners, and the City Manager John Hagood present. The attendance by these officials at any hospital meeting may have indeed been a first. Edgewater has an even greater ratio of children than does New Smyrna Beach. That vote had an even greater impact on Edgewater. The vote was unanimous over the objections of many mothers and of Dr. Carithers, who appealed to the Board to investigate the hospital administration's indifference to the need to improve Fish's inpatient pediatric care. It seems to her they circle the wagons and addressed none of the documented concerns presented to them. Fish has admitted to allowing their pediatric services to fall to a substandard level by not hiring doctors and training nurses to provide adequate service to children as do other hospitals. To her this practice is unethical and unnecessary. Her daughter works at Flagler Hospital in St. Augustine. She works on a floor that delivers babies, cares for pediatrics and provides women's health. She is trained by the hospital to care for all different types of patients. Hospitals recruit and pay doctors who are seeking to set up practices in a community. Yes the pediatric inpatient admissions may be down at Fish but the reason for this is their very own policies. They have created this problem and now our children and families pay for it. There are three pediatricians in Southeast Volusia Taxing Authority. One was recently hired by the hospital. This doctor and one of the other pediatric doctors who practice in our community chose to send patients to Halifax because of Fish. This also relieves them of other responsibility of providing inpatient care. Doctors are paid much less by insurance companies for providing hospital care than they do for office visits. Mayor Thomas informed Ms. Maylone her time had run out and that she could continue her presentation at the end of meeting. Ms. Maylone stated in fact doctors are rewarded when they do not admit children to the hospital. This is a sad case. She agreed to finish her presentation later. Until such time as she is allowed to do so she was going to substantiate the paperwork she had which substantiates everything she was saying tonight so that it is not just her word of mouth. Page 14 of 45 Council Regular Meeting December 3,2007 Chris Balmer, 148 William Street, stated the Orlando Sentinel has reported that the City of Edgewater has $4.7 million in a State fund that invests pretty heavily into mortgage backed securities. He wasn't sure if the Council, the City Manager and or the Interim Finance Director were aware. That fund was about $20 to $25 billion was removed from fund over the last 30 days. It stands at about $25 billion. That fund because of the withdrawals over the last 30 days from other city governments around the state because it invested in mortgage-backed securities, they froze that fund last week. That freeze is removed tomorrow morning at 8 a.m. He hopes the City is looking at removing our $4.7 million from that State fund that invest in mortgage backed securities. He suggested they look at that. Mr. Balmer stated he didn't know what happened in the past at Bert Fish. He knows the doctors and nurses that were there twenty years ago aren't there now. If in fact that hospital cannot provide an adequate level of care upstairs and the nurses, doctors and administration are telling them that, he doesn't ,care what cost to have his child treated. He commended the staff for letting them know that and making the appropriate decisions. Hopefully they will develop a plan for the future. Dominic Capria, 606 Topside Circle, commented on some salary increases that he wanted answers to such as a Deputy Director who went from $33,000 to $59,000, a $25,000 increase. He wondered why. Mayor Thomas asked which Deputy Director he was referring to. Mr. Capria informed him that was all it said. Mr. Capria then mentioned the Accountant going from $33,000 to $49,000, a $16,000 plus increase. The Personnel Director $44,000 to 59,000, a $15,000 increase. plant Operator $23,000 to $31,000, a $7,000 increase. Fire Rescue Firefighter/Paramedic $31,000 to $40,000, a $8,900 increase. He would like some answer why. He agreed they deserve increases but felt these increases were exorbitant. He again wondered why and wanted answers. Mr. Capria then gave the Police Chief credit for going out and getting answers from the community on what should be done. He hasn't been approached. He feels they have officers at the meetings to keep order but felt they should have one outside because cars are being keyed. His for one Page 15 of 45 Council Regular Meeting December 3,2007 and he knows of others too. Carol's is another. He feels that is terrible. He hates that because they won't face them face to face. He feels the people who did it are scumbags. Carol Ann Stoughton, 2740 Evergreen Drive, stated in June in their water bill the City said they were in the process of planning budget reductions, 10%, 20%, and 30%. Mr. Capria was reading off the salary information by Department and Division. What is sad to say here is the sanitation men who make $8.30 to $8.60. That is a sin. They make $12.60 an hour in New Smyrna Beach. She feels that is going to be part of plan whereby the men don't stay and we will end up with Waste Management, which is where she came in five years ago. Sad to say but the firemen's raises alone come to $104,672. The Police raises came to $67,816. How does that coincide with 10%, 20% & 30%? She wasn't knocking raises but if don't have the money. She totaled it up and it came to $457,933, which she wanted on the record. She was hoping the reporter would report it. That was just in raises. She added up how many million dollars in salaries, not counting perks, which was $6,924. They are really talking about $9 million in raises. She doesn't know where they are getting the money from. They have never been able to find out what is going on. They don't know what fund it is in. Where it's at? They sell land in industrial parks for $55,000 an acre when you can't even build a house on a lot for $75,000 an acre. Ms. Stoughton stated as far as the hospital goes they had a Dr. Choi who was going to do kidney work there. The hospital is for profit but the hospital would rather spend more money to decorate the lobby. In New Jersey where she came from, they had a 300-bed hospital. They had a pediatrics department. She is a nurse. They were sufficient. They had continuing education in the hospital. It's a sin that they can't provide the children in our community a place to be taken care of instead of being shipped out of town. She thinks the hospital is now going to be refused or Florida Health Care is not going to be allowing their customers to go to Bert Fish. Something must be going wrong somewhere. Linda Small, 1629 Willow Oak Drive, had a question regarding Bert Fish's situation. She asked Mr. Williams how many children are in the indigent care program at Bert Fish? She heard him say earlier that there are no children Page 16 of 45 Council Regular Meeting December 3, 2007 in the State of Florida who don't qualify for insurance. She was assuming they don't have any children in the indigent care program at the Southeast Volusia Hospital District Taxing Authority. Mr. Williams stated every child in the State of Florida is covered under some kind of insurance program. It is safe to say that every child that comes to Bert Fish have had opportunity to be on some type of insurance program or Medicaid. If they are not when they come to Bert Fish they show them how to get on an insurance program of some sort so they aren't a charity care patient. There should be no charity care patients. In other words, kids without some kind of coverage. Ms. Small stated so they have no children on the program. Mr. Williams stated there are a lot of kids that they take care of in the whole program at Bert Fish but those children for the most part have some kind of insurance, be it Medicaid or something else. Ms. Small stated so her understanding is then that the 40% of the costs associated with the indigent care program or the on compensated care program at Bert Fish, that they are taxed for on their tax bills by the Southeast Volusia Hospital taxing District, none of that 40% goes to cover a child under the age of 18. Mr. Williams informed her that was not correct. Ms. Small stated the answer then is that they do have small children under the age of 18 in the indigent care program. She made two points for their consideration. She didn't know how many of the 50 children that were required to be admitted to Bert Fish last year were in uncompensated care program. Every time an individual, adult or child, is transferred from Bert Fish to Halifax because they can't be admitted for some reason, they are required at Bert Fish to pay Halifax for transfer and that is part of their tax. The other thing is depending on the numbers of indigent care children that will have a tremendous impact and financial hardship on those families that have to go to Halifax. Mike Visconti, 316 pine Breeze Drive, congratulated Councilwoman Bennington and Councilman Cooper for being elected to Council. He wished them a lot of luck for all the work they have ahead of them. It is going to be real tough but he wished them all the luck in the world. Make a good job in Edgewater. Thank you for being on the Council. Page 17 of 45 Council Regular Meeting December 3, 2007 Mr. Visconti asked if he could speak on Item 9, the YCMA Grant. Mr. Visconti stated according to this, they have $87,461 for playground equipment for the YMCA. He asked if this was just for the YMCA or if it could be for the Shuffleboard Court. Mayor Thomas informed him they were going to discuss this when it comes up. Robert Pogg, 2925 Yule Tree Drive, stated he didn't think he voted for any of the Council. He voted for Mayor Thomas. He told him not to ask him to vote for him two years from now because he will tell him he is doing a lousy job. He knows the City wants to build a building here for Bert Fish close to Oak Hill. Unless they come up with a plan for pediatrics, he wouldn't give them the right time of day. If they don't have a plan why should they help them do something? They are paying for them right now and he is getting nothing out of them. He has two children. They went to the hospital and sat there for two hours before his kids got taken care of. He went to Bert Fish because he had a heart attack. They were going to send him home. His doctor doesn't want anything to do with Bert Fish anymore either. Mr. pogg asked if he could speak on Number 7. Mayor Thomas informed him they would do it when they get there. He is going to bring up stuff they are going to discuss and suggested he do it when they get there. Mr. pogg stated it was mentioned about raises. He feels Number 7 is a good deal. He suggested the employees give back their raises and then they won't have to do number 7. He agreed with the Police Department and Fire Department. He feels they need the raise. They are protecting and helping the citizens. The rest of them drive around in pickup trucks all day. Bill Glasser, 1703 Needle Palm Drive, stated back in February the Council was discussing about having City Staff at City Council meetings and how many needed to be there. He thought after some period of discussion they said only certain ones needed to be there. Others who might have a question asked in their particular area, the City Clerk made a recommendation or suggestion that if the person that Page 18 of 45 Council Regular Meeting December 3, 2007 could answer question was not there, the citizen asking the question would get a card from the City Clerk and they were supposed to get an answer within 48 hours. At the time they said this was going to be trial run. Everybody by consensus said they agreed to do this. He was wondering if it is still their policy to do this. Mayor Thomas informed him yes, as far as he knew. Mr. Glasser stated he has come down here on occasion and asked questions and nobody gave him a card or an answer. Nobody on the Council asked any questions about what his problem was. He was wondering if they had a question do they go to City Clerk here or just come to City Hall the next day and ask for card. Who is going to answer their question because he has got lots of questions? He came down and asked about the impact fee for sidewalks. He believed someone asked the City Manager to look into it for him. He handed it off to Finance Director. Two weeks later he comes to a Council meeting and the Finance Director sat beside him and said he heard he had a question and asked him what his question was. He told him what question was. He figured he was going to get answer but then he read in the paper a couple days later where it referenced the former Finance Director. He said well he wasn't on somebody's to do list now. He came down and put a public record request in to get the information that he was looking for where this was not on the 2006 or 2007 Budget but magically appeared on 2008 budget after they inquired about it. He asked if there is a plan of what they are going to do about sidewalks? Mayor Thomas asked Mr. Glasser a question. He stated he frequently walks his dogs and he was walking by his house the other day and he walked out to greet him to see if he wanted to talk about anything and he kept on going. Mr. Glasser said Mayor Thomas asked him how he was doing and he said fine. Mayor Thomas stated he was giving him an opportunity to chime in. Mr. Glasser stated what good was it going to do? He wants the people to hear what his concerns are. Mayor Thomas stated that's what I thought. Mr. Glasser stated encourage more people to express their concerns. After Mayor Thomas was elected he walked his dogs by Mayor Thomas' house. He was cutting the grass and never looked at him. Mayor Thomas stated he might have been cutting the grass. Page 19 of 45 Council Regular Meeting December 3, 2007 Mayor Thomas called a ten-minute recess at this time. The meeting recessed at 8:07 p.m. and reconvened at 8:16 p.m. 5. CITY COUNCIL REPORTS Councilwoman Rogers stated she is on the Metropolitan Planning Organization and what they are going to try to do these next couple of years is if they are on boards they are supposed to give an update or report. The MPO board meets once a month. On December 10th at 5:30 there will be a public information review period where individuals can come and go to the Florida Department of Transportation and listen to a district wide public hearing for Brevard, Flagler, Lake, Marion and Volusia County, so they will then get information about the long-range plan. It is a five- year program that they are going to be discussing. She stated from SR 44 from Riverside Drive to Peninsula, this doesn't have to do with Edgewater. Very little that they do at the MPO currently has to do with Edgewater. For those that go to the beach or travel into New Smyrna Beach, SR 44 from Riverside Drive to peninsula Avenue is going to be resurfaced. Councilwoman Rogers stated there are going to be a few programs, some paving and lanes were supposed to be changed on 1-95 from the half mile north of SR44 to south of 1-4, that was supposed to be lanes being added and rehabilitating the pavement. It was supposed to start in 2008 and has now been pushed to 2011. Councilwoman Bennington asked City Manager Williams the status of the City Clerk position. What is happening with that? She would like to be kept abreast of that on a regular basis. City Manager Williams stated currently they have advertised and to date they have two applicants in house, nine from outside. He suggested Council consider closing applications this time next week. That would allow sufficient time for City Clerk Wadsworth and himself to go through the applications and present them to Council for their consideration ultimately to plan on an interview process. Councilwoman Bennington asked if City Manager Williams was asking them to close them next week. She asked if he needed a motion for that. City Manager Williams informed her he could take a consensus or by a show of hands or a motion would be perfect. Page 20 of 45 Council Regular Meeting December 3,2007 Councilwoman Bennington moved to close the City Clerk applications next Monday, second by Councilman Cooper. The MOTION CARRIED 5-0. Councilwoman Bennington stated when they approve the minutes and she knew Deputy City Clerk Bloomer does minutes. The last minutes they approved were September 10th. She asked why they aren't current with the last meeting and what do they have to do to get them current so when they vote on the last meeting they have them in front of them in case they want to refer to anything. Deputy City Clerk Bloomer stated she does the best she can. She is the only person that does minutes. We just went through a period in September where they had four meetings. Her job also consists of many other duties beyond doing just minutes. She does what she can when she can. Councilwoman Bennington asked what they need to do to help her get these current. She questioned if once they are caught up they can be current in the near future. Deputy City Clerk Bloomer explained she was trying to get caught up. She was three or four meetings behind. Once she gets there her goal is to stay on top if it but things come up and things happen such as phone calls, public record requests as well as other things. She again stated she does the best she can. Councilwoman Bennington stated she wondered if there was problem that they could correct as the Council to help bring them. Deputy City Clerk Bloomer stated fewer meetings would probably help. Councilwoman Bennington stated how about more meetings. Councilwoman Rhodes stated they need to hire her an assistant. Councilwoman Bennington then commented on workshops. She noticed when she was attending Council meetings and running that they have regular meetings but very few workshops where they sit around and.casually discuss some of the issues coming up so everyone have consensus and they can hash some of these things out so they don't have to duke it out up there. She would like to see them schedule monthly workshops or as issues come up and address them. Mayor Thomas asked if those have to be in Sunshine and be public and advertised. Councilwoman Bennington commented on the way they used to do workshops. There were no motions made. It was just discussion over an issue and get a feel. Then if they wanted to have a Special Meeting after it to take action on something they could. A workshop is just a Page 21 of 45 Council Regular Meeting December 3, 2007 general feeling so everyone knows where everyone stands on an issue rather than have lengthy Council meetings. Councilman Cooper reported that he and City Manager Williams met last week. There has been a lot of campaign promises. One of the things they talked about were workshops, workshops with each Councilmember at every workshop and a Director and city Manager Williams at every one of them. They are trying to meet with every Director, every Board and every Committee to plan a way to bring the City out of a hole and move forward as far as prosper as much as they can. At the workshops they are looking for ideas. City Manager Williams is in the process of putting that together. He hopes everyone of the Council will step up. It will cause more meetings. He believes they need to do that to get on the right track and get the Committees working right and get the directors on the same path. He feels it will also help with the morale problem they are having. Councilwoman Bennington stated the workshop minutes do not have to be as precise as Deputy City Clerk Bloomer is making the regular meeting minutes. They can be general. Councilman Cooper stated it is just something else she has to do. Councilwoman Bennington stated they can be general. Deputy City Clerk Bloomer has very precise minutes. They are almost verbatim. Deputy City Clerk Bloomer commented on having complaints in the past that there is not enough information. It also helps for research purposes in the future. Councilwoman Bennington stated it saves time in the long run. She doesn't have a problem with that. She would like to see them as current as possible. Councilwoman Bennington stated the City Manager sent on 11/14 several items. She would like to find out the status. One of them is the Animal shelter. She asked the status of that right now. City Manager Williams informed her the RFP's are due in tomorrow. Once they receive them they will write them and determine a course of direction. Councilwoman Bennington asked when they could expect to hear something. City Manager Williams stated hopefully by December 17th or sooner. Councilwoman Bennington asked about the Mission Oaks Agreement and what was going on with that. City Manager Page 22 of 45 Council Regular Meeting December 3, 2007 Williams informed her he and Terry talked. The application was being delivered Friday for Terry to sign. It will be submitted to the Department of Environmental Protection. Once the permits are issued, they will proceed with the installation of the force main. Councilwoman Bennington commented about an article she read in the newspaper about these residents complaining about not knowing about the switch from New Smyrna Beach to Edgewater. She asked if they have all been notified and if they were being kept abreast of everything that is going on. City Manager Williams stated they are up to date on the information. Really the issue at hand doesn't necessarily center around our service in terms of wastewater. It deals with the actual stormwater retention issues that exist out there. It can't be fixed with the installation of the force main. They anticipate some of those problems being addressed when Oak Leaf begins construction out there. Councilwoman Bennington stated the last time she was on the Council this subdivision wanted to come in and annex and they didn't because of those problems. Councilwoman Bennington stated maybe with the workshops they won't need this but they used to be kept abreast by the City Manager the status of each department. The Fire Department used to give Council how many rescue whatever. If they are going to have these workshops, ongoing, maybe they don't need that. If they aren't, she would like to see status reports. When a citizen stops them on street and they ask them something, at least they have some knowledge of what is going on. Councilwoman Bennington stated sitting out in the audience, she had a real problem with some of the citizens. She does not want to deny any citizen the right to speak and address the Council. If they are operating under Roberts Rules of Order there is an order to it. She would like to see them if they are not then they need sit down and discuss what type of rules they are going to operate on. When someone from the audience jumps up at a Council meeting and says point of order that is disrupting a public meeting. The Council is here to do the City's business. They give the citizens ample time to discuss things with them. She would like them to take a stronger stance so they can get to business and they don't have these long meetings. Mayor Thomas stated he would be glad to. Councilwoman Bennington stated so they are operating under Roberts Rules of Order. Mayor Thomas informed her yes. Councilwoman Bennington Page 23 of 45 Council Regular Meeting December 3,2007 stated when somebody comes up and they address the Council, they are to address them, not the staff. Mayor Thomas informed her that was correct. Councilwoman Bennington wanted that very clear. She doesn't like idea of them thinking coming up there and thinking they can just talk and ask anybody anything whenever they want. They need to go through the Council. Mayor Thomas stated when they come up and point their finger or ask staff a question, he informs them they need to address the whole Council. Councilwoman Bennington stated some of them haven't been doing that from the perspective of sitting in the audience. Councilwoman Rhodes stated the Pension Board met on the 15th of November. They received an amendment to the pension plan, which addresses the accrued money the people get when they retire and continue to work and they still accrue. Their Attorney advised them since Principal got them into this mess to let Principal get them out of this mess. Principal submitted an amendment to the Pension Plan. Part of that amendment, the very last paragraph, addressed the fact that Principal wasn't going to take any responsibility if it wasn't legal. The Board approved the amendment but sent it back to Principal striking the last paragraph. As far as she knows they haven't heard back from them. They are supposed to meet after they hear back from them and go from there. One of things discussed by Bogdahn, who is the consultant to all the pension plans in the City, suggested they set forth a policy for distributing funds in different places, like with the mortgaged back securities. She didn't know if they were in those. In order to make more return on their money to have a very broad policy that Principal will follow in disbursing the money. They are going to come back to the Board with that in January. Then they talked about electing a secretary because nobody volunteered. They were going to look at the bylaws to see what the process was and apparently they don't have bylaws. Who knew? They are going to address that issue as well. Councilwoman Rhodes commented on going to the employee's free lunch. It was a good lunch. She enjoyed that lunch. Steve Cousins and Tommy Smith cooked it on the barbeque grill. There were some great desserts there made by other employees. Whoever made the brownies they did a real good job. She feels they need to recognize that City Manager Williams funded it out of his own pocket to the tune of a few hundred bucks. She thanked City Manager Williams for Page 24 of 45 Council Regular Meeting December 3, 2007 doing that. She felt everybody had a really nice time. She would like to see more of them. Councilman Cooper commented on it being a busy month. On November 11th he was asked to represent the City at the Veterans Day affair. It was the largest they have had to date. It was super to be there and he was proud to be asked to be there and he spoke for a few minutes. The Mayor of Oak Hill was there. It was a very respectful ceremony. The turnout was one of the best. Councilman Cooper stated he attended the first Committee meeting of the YMCA. They have some good news going on there. He commented on the rumblings at the overall condition. Sitting down with their Board and talking with Herman Mitchell, he expects a rather large donation this week. That money is going to be used to put right back into the YMCA and do some sorely needed maintenance. Speaking with Mr. Williams on this, they thought it might be an excellent time to work a co-op work group together with the City functioning workforce. If they can do that together the amount of money the Y is about to pony up will go a lot further making that building look the way it should look. He is expecting that to come to fruition in the next couple of days. It is on the agenda tonight too so it would be nice if they coincide. He has been meeting with the City Manager over the last couple of weeks on advancements and moving forward. Part of the program is they have requested weekly meetings of a member of each Councilmember. He was throwing that out here tonight. Each one of the Council will step up and meet with the Director and the City Manager to discuss future and ideas and long term planning. They want to take it one step further and meet with the Committees and Boards as well. They can't talk about anything they vote on but they can talk about ideas and revenue making ideas. City Manager Williams is working on a plan to start these weekly meetings. He has dedicated a month to this right now. He needs to get it done in a month and start these things. If the Councilmembers can't always attend he would give them all his time to go after as much as they can. Councilman Cooper then commented on another function they were asked to speak at, Wreaths Across America, on December 15th. It is probably one of the greatest campaigns he has ever heard of. A gentleman in Maine started putting wreaths on the Arlington Ceremony for every veteran. It Page 25 of 45 Council Regular Meeting December 3, 2007 has expanded now to 240 locations, with over 200,000 or 300,000 wreaths being placed. They will be there in force. Councilwoman Bennington asked where they were going to be. Councilman Cooper informed her there are two or three facilities, one in New Smyrna Beach, one at the Edgewater Cemetery, and one in Daytona. He further commented on their website being outrageous in what they really do. Mayor Thomas commented on the Volusia Council of Governments Smart Growth Committee meeting he attended today. VCOG is represented by 16 cities. The Smart Growth Committee is represented by five Mayors, five City Managers, one school board member, and one County Councilmember. He was very proud to be selected. They talked about Map A today. They are trying aggressively to get that going. He asked today how many acres were in it. 20% of Volusia County is in this. 73% is either in Federal lands, State lands, County lands or conjunctive lands, which can never be built on. He would like to see more. They are working on this aggressively getting it started. The Smart Growth Committee has been around forever but they are putting the spurs in the horse and getting things underway. Mayor Thomas reported on the VCOG meeting that was held on November 26th. They had a presentation from the School Board. Alan Taylor from Tallahassee gave an in depth presentation on what the new tax reform ballot is going to be about and how much it is going to hurt the School Board. It is going to hurt the School Board phenomenally. They have already laid off school crossing guards. They are talking about having to layoff 80 teachers and they can't afford to do that. The politicians in Tallahassee are trying to not give you tax reform. They are trying to shift the burden from the property tax to the sales tax. They are trying to hide things. They all need services. They all drive the paved roads and they have to have stop signs and stop lights. They have to have those things and those things are paid by taxes. They know they have to pay taxes. The thing he talked about the most was over the past 40 years the inflation level of property went up to 8% until two years ago when it bubbled and went up to like 20%. Now the appraisal of your property made the property tax go up and therefore the politicians are trying to do a quick fix because the people are hollering. The Volusia Tax Reform was there and they said that they are not going to support the constitutional amendment going on the ballot Page 26 of 45 Council Regular Meeting December 3,2007 on January 29th. They want to give it to the Constitutional Tax Reform Committee, which are not politicians, which is going to come out with a good some form of equitable tax reform, not a shifting of the taxes. Hopefully they can have something down the road to vote on that will not be a political play. Ms. Small stated she is a member of the Volusia Tax Reforms Board. It is true. They have made a decision at an executive level to not support the constitutional amendment that they will attempt to put on the ballot January 29th. They feel it is not adequate. It is a sham. It is a deal made in back rooms by the leadership of the State in Tallahassee. They have in fact come to the citizens to take it from their schools when they are continuing to protect their special interest groups. Make no mistake that the State could in a heartbeat provide all of the funds needed to run our communities, our county, our schools, and our hospitals if they would just eliminate the special exemptions they have given special interest groups of sales tax in this State, in a heartbeat. They would no longer have a financial issue in the State of Florida. They don't have the guts to do it. They are more entrenched then ever and they will not support them. They have met twice and will meet again in January in Orlando with the Constitutional Budget Committee that serves the State and they look to step up and make some demonstrative changes. They have challenged part of the constitutional amendment and it should be in court within the next two weeks. Mayor Thomas stated the School Board told him when they first started levying the School Board taxes that the State was funding most of it, 57%. Now it has shifted where the cities are funding 57% and the School Board is funding 43%. Ms. Small stated the State isn't going to do with less money. They are going to do smoke and mirrors about where they get it from. They can't support that. That isn't what they are about. That is not long term meaningful tax reform. It is nothing but a bunch of garbage and they are tired of it. Councilwoman Bennington stated she liked the idea of a citizen doing his report for him. She thought that was cool. 6 . CONSENT AGENDA Page 27 of 45 Council Regular Meeting December 3,2007 There were no items to be discussed on the Consent Agenda at this time. 7. PUBLIC HEARINGS, ORDINANCES AND RESOLUTIONS A. Resolution #2007-R-16 - approval of this resolution which specifically references the potential special assessment program and reserves to the City the ability to impose assessments in the incorporated area of the City. Approval does not obligate the City to use the method or impose a special assessment, it merely preserves the right to use non-ad valorem assessments City Attorney Ansay read Res. 2007-R-16 into the record. City Manager Williams made a staff presentation by going through a Powerpoint Presentation. Councilwoman Rhodes asked if EMS would be the larger portion of fire protection. Fire Chief Barlow stated with different studies he has seen, fire protection can be calculated anywhere between 50% to 70%. Although they may utilize pieces of equipment and personnel for EMS they are still staffed and prepared for that fire protection component. Councilman Cooper asked if it has to be so limited. Why can't it be broadened to EMS as well as Police. City Manager Williams stated State Statute prohibits the use of these type of fees for EMS for Police at this point in time. City Manager Williams continued his presentation by describing what they would have to do next. They would have to approve Resolution 2007-R-16, notify the Property Appraiser of the City's intent to use non ad valorem assessments, obtain the Attorney General's opinion on the use of non ad valorem assessments, the status of the Constitutional Amendment, and determine the overall impact of the Constitutional Amendment and proceed accordingly. Councilwoman Rogers agreed with the fact that the Property Appraiser is asking for an opinion on this. She does not see this as anything other than another form of taxation. She understands that with what they are going to be seeing in January, if it is voted and our taxes do get lowered, Page 28 of 45 Council Regular Meeting December 3,2007 they are going to have to find other ways to provide services in the City. She thinks there are other ways to do it. They need to look at what they are paying for in the City and prioritize what their needs are, not turn around and come up with another fancy way to tax the citizens. Everyone is having to budget and having to live on less money nowadays with the way the prices are going up and now we have this huge problem sitting out there with mortgage interest. She didn't know the percentage of citizens that have adjustable rate mortgages. She was concerned that when these rates adjust again that they are going to have some really serious issues locally and she sees this as a potential problem with this fire assessment. That this is another form of a tax. She would rather for them to look real hard at the numbers. The citizens do not have an opportunity or the luxury to go out and charge somebody whenever they have to budget so why should the City be able to do something the citizens cannot. She doesn't want to see it happen. Councilwoman Bennington informed Mr. Williams this wasn't on their first agenda. An article was done in the paper. She wanted to slap his hand publicly because she felt this should not have been left out. She didn't care what the reasons were. When things like this are left out of their agenda and the paper gets it first it gives the citizens the right to think they are trying to pull something on them. She thinks they need to be up front about everything. She doesn't ever want to see something like this happen again with something as important as this. Councilwoman Bennington feels the Special Taxing District is probably the best way for them to keep track of revenue and what they are spending money on. What better way than if you have the special assessment. They know exactly how much they are paying for fire services. It's line itemed and right there in front of you. In theory they should be cutting back on ad valorem taxes, which is what they should do if they go forward with this. She doesn't have a problem with them getting their ducks in a row in case they need this. Councilwoman Rhodes agreed with Councilwoman Bennington. To do this, they are going to have to compensate by lowering the millage rate. This is not an extra tax. This should be in conjunction with the millage rate. In doing this she feels it is a more fair tax because you're not Page 29 of 45 Council Regular Meeting December 3, 2007 taxed on the value of your home. Your neighbors tax won't be any different than your tax. It's a more fair way of providing this service. She agreed they need to have their ducks in a row. This is going to do nothing to set this in motion except that it gives them options if they need them. She feels that is important. Councilman Cooper agreed and believed they needed the option. He asked City Manager Williams if it is a proper conclusion where if you add this, you have to adjust the ad valorem rate accordingly downward. Is it a dollar for dollar? City Manager Williams stated as he pointed out it is not dollar for dollar. They have an EMS component that is part of the division of Fire Services. As the Chief pointed out it may cover 75%. Councilman Cooper stated it is in one aspect a way to add additional tax. They have to pay for it. He understands the need have to have something in there if the State continues to do what they are doing. City Manager Williams suggested if it generates a million dollars it would be incumbent upon Council to lower the millage rate to the extent that it provides a million savings. It may only cover 75% of the costs associated with providing the services that are out there. As they talk about the different levels, on the level of EMS advanced and basic life support what level would this community want and be willing to pay for and then they staff those services appropriately from that perspective. Councilman Cooper asked Fire Chief Barlow how he sees this. Does this look like a positive for his department and a good way to move forward? Fire Chief Barlow stated a lot more research needs to go into it. This doesn't commit us and gives us an opportunity to continue that research and position them if they have to go this way at a later date. The citizens know when they pay that fee it goes for the Fire Department. It is nice to have a little more transparency on the fire side to continue to provide those services to the community. He is definitely willing to continue the research. Councilman Cooper asked him if he believed it was a positive action. Fire Chief Barlow informed him it can be a positive action but there is a lot more research. Mayor Thomas stated the State has mandated us to go down and they didn't even meet that. You have to be able to pay your bills. He feels like this is another tax. They have to have the option open. The people came forward and said Page 30 of 45 Council Regular Meeting December 3, 2007 they want the current level of services Police Departments are providing. They the meetings that they want the current going to have to find alternative funds levels of services are being continued. in stone. This is a viable option that for that should be open. that the Fire and have told them at levels. They are to make sure these Nothing is written he will be voting The following citizens spoke: Robert Pogg, 2925 Yule Tree Drive, stated he is an ex- fireman. He has heard this before up north, the same thing. What do you do? You hit the Fire Department You hit the Police Department. You shake up all the neighbors in town. They are scared they are going to lose it. He informed City Manager Williams to turn around and put his glasses on and look and see where he can start cutting. There is no reason to put another tax in this town. Mayor Thomas informed Mr. pogg he needed to address the Council. Mr. pogg asked Mayor Thomas if it was the City Manager's idea. Councilwoman Rhodes stated no, it was hers. Mayor Thomas stated his too. Mr. pogg asked why they want to come up with this. So they could scare the people so they get more money. He is fed up with this. Every time they turn around they advertised for two people to have their places refilled but they missed one. They missed the City Manager's job. He has gone through a half a dozen City Managers and he has yet to see one come in here and say that we are going to cut taxes. Councilwoman Bennington informed him this is comments on this subject. Mr. pogg informed her he had his three minutes. He informed Councilwoman Bennington he did more Roberts Rules of Order than she did. Mayor Thomas provided Mr. Pogg with a first warning. Mr. pogg stated Councilwoman Bennington wanted to go home and go to bed. Councilwoman Bennington informed him she did not. This is to address this resolution only. Mr. pogg stated they have been through this before. The last time he got thrown out so it makes no difference to him. Mr. pogg asked the Council to just once sit down and go through the budget and see where they can cut. Taxpayers in Edgewater are losing their homes. He has four on his Page 31 of 45 Council Regular Meeting December 3, 2007 street that can't pay their bills and the City wants to tax them even more. He feels they should all be ashamed of themselves and should quit and let somebody in here that is going to think of the people and not the special interest groups in this town. He is not only talking about this but also other projects that are going on in this town right now. Mr. pogg informed Councilwoman Bennington it's been a pleasure. He was sorry if she couldn't go to bed early. Councilwoman Bennington informed him she doesn't go to bed early. Mr. pogg informed her she should. Carol Ann Stoughton, 2740 Evergreen Drive, knows Councilwoman Bennington is new but will do good job. They don't get answers. They don't get them here. There are a lot of questions they ask and the Council can't give it to them. They will get answers. They have a right to stand here and ask questions. Councilwoman Bennington stated under Roberts Rules of Order they are addressing this resolution. She has ample opportunity and she would be glad to meet with her. Ms. Stoughton stated her clock was running. Councilwoman Bennington informed her she wasn't addressing this issue. Ms. Stoughton stated she was going to address this issue and she didn't want to be threatened with the Police. She had a solution. She has been threatened once before. Councilwoman Bennington stated that is what they want to hear. Ms. Stoughton informed Councilwoman Bennington to let her talk and that she was out of order. Right now she knows that Flagler County, excuse me Mayor, Flagler County's Fire Department, she met with them. Did anybody ever hear of EVAC? They did away with EVAC. EVAC gets $500 per person to take them to the hospital. Our men are qualified. We have in our budget $323,000 a year for the past four years that goes to EVAC. Why can't our boys who are qualified and certified handle that and we get the money back from the insurance companies. That is what is being done in Flagler County. She feels they ought to check what is going on. Flagler County has done away with EVAC. For $300,000 we can buy a rig and service people right here. That is cost savings in their tax budget. Councilwoman Bennington agreed with Ms. Stoughton. Ms. Stoughton informed her she was still talking. The persons that come up here never get answers. They have questions and would like them answered. She has been asking what the Page 32 of 45 Council Regular Meeting December 3,2007 debt was for years. She found out again it was $45 million. Now they have an un something budget which is not totally correct yet and it is supposed to be $40 million. People in this City are losing houses left and right because of taxation. She stated Mr. pogg is raising his children alone and he has enough to pay. He doesn't need any more taxes or ad valorem put on his property. Mike Visconti, 316 Pine Breeze Drive, stated they keep talking about taxes. He commented on cutting taxes a little while back. The tax cut amounted to $27 a year they in Edgewater saved on their tax bill. If they pulled all that money together without cutting taxes, Edgewater would have $800,000 to pay for the services they are looking for now. Linda Small, 1629 Willow Oak Drive, stated regarding the non ad valorem assessment resolution, since this is putting the cart before the horse and they don't know what is going to wind up on the January 29th resolution. Why do they have to do this now? Why can the research not continue and depending on what actually happens the end of January, then address it at the next appropriate Council meeting. Why do they have to have this right now? She has a problem with non ad valorem assessments. Already they have started with the well it doesn't cover 100%. It will be up to Council whether it is a dollar for dollar revenue neutral situation. She would prefer not to leave that decision to Council. If they feel that strongly about it why don't they establish a taxing district. Non ad valorem assessments are not a special taxing district. If they need to separate out the Fire Department, then come up with a proposal for a new taxing district for the City of Edgewater and therefore that would guarantee that the millage rate would be established and City's other tax millage rate would be reduced accordingly rather than leaving it to a non ad valorem assessment. This will turn out to be an out of control tax that they will regret. It's coming. Whether they are on the Councilor not, she promised it would happen. Ms. Small had one other issue she would like to bring up regarding the resolution. She didn't think they have in the last two months done their fiduciary responsibility in City government to hold the line on expenses. She thinks for them to attempt to present this to the community with the information they have with the raises that have Page 33 of 45 Council Regular Meeting December 3, 2007 happened in City Hall in Edgewater, one person got a 50% increase. It is an accountant who went from $33,000 to $49,000 a year. When they are looking at numbers like that it is a hard sell. If they were on the numbers and were working hard to reduce, they might be able to sell this but they don't believe it. Dominic Capria, 606 Topside Circle, stated #3 obtain attorney general's opinion on use of non ad valorem assessments. That is the cart before the horse. Let's get that opinion. They knew this when they did the budget. Why didn't they do something about it then? We are banking on how the people are going to vote January 29th. That is all they are banking on. Assuming it does pass, which he doubted it would. Come budget time next year the Council is going to have to do something to reduce it even further. There is no question about that. But nobody is saying well how much are they going to get back on the sales tax when they do it. That's an important point. He doesn't know how many dollars are going to be there. He has asked that question at the tax office more than once and he cannot get an answer. He feels they are putting the cart before the horse and that they should wait and see what is going to happen before they do this. If they vote to do it and January 29th they vote, they are going to have months before anything happens. Ferd Heeb, 115 N. Riverside Drive, stated basically he thinks they are in the right direction. He thinks they need to act on this. There is a scientific axiom that says every action will have a reaction and any action without proper research and study will have unintended consequences. He would like to see them add step 6 to make sure they consult, research and study before they take action. He feels Fire Chief Barlow is right. Dave Ross, 2803 Needle Palm Drive, stated Ms. Small and Mrs. Rogers are 100% correct. It is nothing but an additional tax. If they think he believes for one minute that there will be a dollar for dollar reduction, then he is an idiot. There is no way and once they get it on the books it is a way that so far the State Legislature is hands off and it is going to go up and up. You can count on it. Mr. Ross informed Mayor Thomas he would ask the City Manager if no resident is going to be charged over $50 per Page 34 of 45 Council Regular Meeting December 3,2007 year because that is what he has insinuated here tonight. He would like to know if it is going to be closer to $100 or $500 per year. He would be glad to pay $50 per year for fire protection. It isn't going to happen. He would be careful. He understands the necessity that they need to do this before January 1st if they really want to do it next year. If they vote this in tonight, they will do it next year because the paid consultant is going 'to get paid to tell them to do it. They are going to pay him to tell us to do it. He isn't going to say don't do it. Mr. Ross stated if this City doesn't know what our Fire Department is costing us annually, what in the world is our Finance Department doing? Mayor Thomas closed the public hearing. Councilwoman Bennington agreed with Ms. Stoughton wholeheartedly about EVAC. They can't do anything because it is a County contract. She would love to see our EMT's transport. She hates paying the money. She has had to use it and she hated it. Regarding Mr. Capria's question. They have to do by January 10th to notice that they may be considering doing it. Everybody is crying about how much they pay in taxes. The $50 figure is just for presentation. It is not a true figure. The study would have to determine what the true value is for each property owner. City Manager Williams confirmed that was correct. Councilwoman Bennington stated they don't know that right now. What they are trying to do, as guardians of the taxpayer's money, is equalize everybody so nobody is paying more or less than anyone for the same services. If the citizens feel this is wrong and they want to have the up and low and everybody gets the same service but doesn't pay the same price, they are entitled to that opinion. -They are trying to equalize that. She will guarantee she will not vote for this if they don't lower the ad valorem taxes almost dollar for dollar. All she is saying is let's look at this as an alternative way to fund a department that everybody in the City has said they want the quality of service to stay the same. If they are hit on January 29th, where they have to cut back again, something is going to have to give. It is going to be the Fire Department, the Police Department and on down the line. If that is what the citizens want that is what they will get but don't cry to Council and say they are cutting services when they are trying to equalize everything. Page 35 of 45 Council Regular Meeting December 3,2007 City Manager Williams stated this resolution merely communicates the Council's intent to use this if they so desire. There are a number of other processes that they must go through before they even determine a course of direction and a tremendous amount of research that is still yet to be done. Councilwoman Bennington informed Ms. Small this is not a special taxing district, it is an across the board assessment. She recognizes the difference. Ms. Stoughton commented from the audience and Mayor Thomas informed her she was out of order. Mayor Thomas entertained a motion. Councilwoman Rhodes moved to approve Res. 2007-R-16, second by Councilwoman Bennington. The MOTION CARRIED 4 -1 . Councilwoman Roqers voted NO. 8. BOARD APPOINTMENTS There were no Board Appointments at this time. 9. OTHER BUSINESS A. Community Development Block Grant (CDBG) - 2007/2008 Subrecipient Agreement - approval of the agreement to use allocated funds of $87,461.00 for playground equipment at the YMCA and authorize the City Manager to execute the associated documents Interim Finance Director Malecia Williams made a staff presentation. City Manager Williams pointed out the description indicates the playground equipment is at YMCA. That is just a point of reference. It will be located on the City's property right at the east area east of the existing YMCA facility, north of where the Hawks Park Ballfields are. It is not exclusive for YMCA members. It is open to the public and will remain open to the public. Page 36 of 45 Council Regular Meeting December 3, 2007 Councilman Cooper stated the problem he has with this and you take advantage of a grant whenever you can. He feels it enhances the YMCA and their pocketbooks. He asked if the children would be allowed to utilize this whether they are a YMCA member or not. City Manager Williams stated it is for all of our citizens whether they are paying or non paying members. It benefits the YMCA but is not exclusive to the YMCA or YMCA membership. Councilman Cooper felt if they made that well known to the community then it is a good thing to have it there for the children. He feels it shouldn't be something the YMCA considers their now domain and it enhances their membership. City Manager Williams stated it will enhance the park there for our citizens whether or not they are members of the YMCA. Mayor Thomas entertained a motion. Councilwoman Bennington moved to accept staff's recommendation for the playground equipment at Hawk's Park, second by Councilwoman Rhodes. City Attorney Ansay asked for clarification and stated approval of the agreement she assumed was part of motion. Councilwoman Bennington informed her yes. The MOTION CARRIED 5 - 0 . B. Employee Early Separation/Retirement Options - Council discussion/determination on establishment of formula for early separation/retirement options This item was pulled from the agenda. City Manager Williams stated this may be a good time to discuss the opportunity for a workshop if Council so desires. They have some additional research they need to do regarding the establishment of the formula for early separation/retirement options. He would be glad to look at some dates in future to deal with that. Councilwoman Bennington stated she was available anytime. Councilwoman Rhodes would like to do it like they did Page 37 of 45 Council Regular Meeting December 3,2007 tonight, at 5:00 p.m. on December 17th. Councilwoman Rogers stated she may not be here on 17th and has already given her notice. City Manager Williams stated they would do proper notification and schedule it for five o'clock. He would have someone from his office confirm that with Council tomorrow. Councilman Cooper asked if the labor lawyer would be there as well. City Manager Williams stated he would not plan on him being there at this point in time. If that is something Council desires, he could see if he was available. Councilman Cooper stated anything they work out they can send back to him for review. City Manager Williams informed him certainly. 10. OFFICER REPORTS A. City Clerk Deputy City Clerk Bloomer had nothing at this time. B. City Attorney City Attorney Ansay had nothing at this time. C. City Manager City Manager Williams reminded Council that they have Resolution 94-R-01 that is in place regarding rules and journals and how citizens and employees are supposed to address the Council. If this is something Council is interested in he could put it back on the agenda and look at it for possible revisions and discussions. They don't have to do it on 17th. If they haven't gotten a copy he could certainly provide that to them. Councilwoman Bennington stated she would like a copy. City Manager Williams stated tonight it was brought up about the SBA's decision to not allow transfers and withdrawals as a result of an old fashion run that was taking place in light of a report that was done by Bloomberg that indicated that the SBA had invested in undervalued commercial paper. The financial strength of the whole SBA was called into question. As it was pointed out there was a tremendous amount of local governments that Page 38 of 45 Council Regular Meeting December 3,2007 were making a run on their moneys that were invested from the perspective of it may hamper operations and they may not be able to make payroll. He assured Council that they do have enough money in their General operating account at Wachovia to make sure operations are not interrupted at one point or another. He and the Interim Finance Director met this morning and as soon as they can liquidate, they will liquidate and place it into an inactive account that will be active at Wachovia that will be interest ~earing and they will reallocate once they resolve the issue of our investments. We currently do invest our money according to an investment policy that was approved by Council in 2002 and it is consistent with State Statutes. He would provide Council with a copy of that as well. As they unravel the situation he will keep Council abreast on it. Councilman Cooper confirmed City Manager was saying that Tuesday, as Chris has tentatively recommended, they are going to make a withdrawal. City Manager Williams stated if they can get every dime they have they are going to take every dime they have and put it in another fund and hold onto those funds. All the money we have with SBA is restricted funds. Those types of funds are what we have invested with SBA. If we can get all of our money we will take all of our money and park it into another one of our accounts at Wachovia until they can resolve the issue and move forward. City Manager Williams stated it has been a rough year. As a token of our appreciation, he is making the decision to close City Hall on December 24th and December 31st as Employee Recognition days. He hopes they can help boost the morale if there were no objections from Council. Councilwoman Rhodes confirmed they would be paid days. City Manager Williams informed her yes. It was the consensus of Council to allow the employees off on December 24th and December 31st. 1) Tentative Agenda Items There were no Tentative Agenda Items to be discussed at this time. 11. CITIZEN COMMENTS Page 39 of 45 Council Regular Meeting December 3, 2007 The following citizens spoke: Dominic Capri a , 606 Topside Circle, stated Community Development Block Grants and that somebody asked about the shuffleboard courts and didn't get an answer. Why is it not being worked in? City Manager Williams stated that area does fall within the target area of the CDBG funds. He would have to do some additional research to see if that is something that could be incorporated into that facility, that park over there. Some of the challenges that do come to mind is they did have some environmental constraints that did not allow us to have full use of property. They are currently going through the study to see if scrub jays were still there. Mr. Capria asked about Roberts Rules of Order and if they are or aren't controlled by City Charter and Roberts Rules of Order. Mayor Thomas informed him yes. Mr. Capria stated well then when somebody calls for a point of order they are in their rights. Chris Balmer, 148 William Street, stated he is the poster child for a point of order and if you donate to a candidate you don't always get a break. He never thought he would be up there talking about freedom of speech. The Council in the past has changed the five-minute rule to three minutes at the beginning and end of meetings over the past few years. At one time they made a run at getting it eliminated from the beginning of meetings and moved to the back of the meetings only. They voted that down and that isn't what they want. Roberts Rules of Order point of order when a member thinks the rules of the assembly are being violated he or she can make a point of order and raise a question of order and that is to the Mayor. When he did, the Mayor correctly responded he didn't think it was valid and they continued the meeting. It was not an attempt to disrupt the meeting. It is the citizens exercising their rights under Roberts Rules of Order. He agreed people needed to address the Mayor and Council and be respectful of the Council as well as City staff. They are trying to do good job. Half the people that get up and speak he doesn't agree with what they want or say. The other half he does but everybody has their three minutes at the beginning and their three minutes at the end and they Page 40 of 45 Council Regular Meeting December 3, 2007 should be able to speak for that allotted time as long as they are speaking respectfully. Robert Pogg, 2925 Yule Tree Drive, informed the Mayor and Council he would like to have them do him one favor, stop lying to the residents of Edgewater. Please change the sign from Hospitality City to Taxation City. Good night. Mayor Thomas stated it is a free country and if he didn't like it he could move. Mr. pogg asked Mayor Thomas if he wanted to buy him out. Mr. pogg stated he just spoke his peace and if the Mayor didn't like it that was tough. All they are doing is taxing him. He informed Mayor Thomas if he didn't like it they could go right out the door. Mayor Thomas stated he was for that. Chief Taves thanked him for his comments. Mr. pogg stated he wasn't afraid of anybody. David Ross, 2803 Needle Palm Drive, informed Councilwoman Bennington he would like to applaud her suggestion for more publicly advertised Council workshops with staff. It's needed. It will accomplish a lot. He had a question about Mr. Cooper's suggestion of Council meeting behind closed doors with staff. If he understood him correctly, it would be on issues that will not be voted on. His concern is, he doesn't know how they can talk about any item of City business and know it won't be voted on three months later. He suggested respectfully that this Council keep every conversation it has, every communication between Councilpeople, in the Sunshine. As a matter of fact, he would like to see a lot more Council/staff conversations in the Sunshine. Because Councilmembers can talk to staff. The next thing you know all five Councilpeople have communicated through staff. That is in the closet and it happens every day. It has been happening in Edgewater. When Mr. Mayor was elected he vowed to see that that stopped. He suggested there be very limited conversation about City business unless it is in this room in front of the public. Pat Card, 3019 Willow Oak Drive, disagreed with Mr. Ross. The reason he disagreed is that if this is in fact occurring, all of the Council are sworn to uphold the Charter. Part of that boils down to understanding what a Page 41 of 45 Council Regular Meeting December 3, 2007 conduit is. He was sure City Attorney Ansay would be more than happy to explain conduits to everybody because if an individual is acting as a conduit, it is against the law. Everyone of the Council has the responsibility to see to it that it stops and is punished. Conduits are not allowed. That means he can't tell you what she said to him about what you are going to vote on. That is a conduit. He was sure City Attorney Ansay would address this. Mr. Card stated he hears an awful lot of talk about taxes. He moved here in 1998. His taxes were $1,497 a year for his home in Florida Shores. They are $1,640 this year, nine years later. His gas bill was $50 per year for budget when he moved here. It is $270 per month now. That isn't anything to do with taxes. His taxes are a bargain still. There is no free lunch. If the people of Edgewater are not willing to pay for the services they bought when they came here, it is their fault. Taxes are taxes. Dave's right about the ratchet affect the taxes. What nobody has addressed in regards to this is this would be a very regressive tax if it is done this way. Carol Stoughton, 2740 Evergreen Drive, asked if we are presently operating under our Charter? Do we have an answer to that? This is with the Reserve Funds or any funds. Councilwoman Bennington stated it was being researched right now and she would be able to answer it tomorrow. Ms. Stoughton stated we have a City Manager who should know the answer. What are we operating under right now? Are we between 15% and 25%? She guessed that was a question they would have to keep researching and going into public records and getting answers. That is a sad State of affairs. With regard to Flagler County they got rid of EVAC as well as Edgewater can get rid of EVAC. She suggested they research it. That can bring in moneys to help fund our City. Again she has no answer. What is the City's debt? She will ask until the day she dies. They have an unaudited report and that report is it finished? How much is the City's debt? She keeps asking. They have no answers. They are paying over $131,000 for a Finance Manager to give them answers. She didn't think he knew the answers. Bill Glasser, 1703 Needle Palm Drive, stated if he slighted the Mayor he was sorry. He thinks he was concentrating on bringing Fritz's choker collar up. There was a dog up the street and he has been attacked so many times that he goes Page 42 of 45 Council Regular Meeting December 3, 2007 into the cocked mode every time he sees a dog that he thinks is going to attack him. Mr. Glasser stated at the November 5th meeting he was attempting to put a little levity into the meeting where he was discussing his voting adventures when he voted early. He made some comments about people that he had talked to at the Division of Elections in Tallahassee and at the Volusia County Department of Elections and things they had told him in response to his questions. The comments the City Attorney said in response, he wasn't sure he understood those comments. What he heard was that the people he talked to were not necessarily or they didn't know if they were qualified to answer his questions. Since we have no minutes, he couldn't refer to what the minutes said. When they are researching things and talking to people in government, whether they be Federal, State, County or City, does he have to vet their credentials or does Council have to do it to make sure the answer he gets is worth getting an answer. Councilwoman Bennington stated point taken. Delores Maylone, 204 S. Myrtle Ave., New Smyrna Beach, stated City meetings in Edgewater are much more interesting than those boring ones in New Smyrna Beach. Hospitals recruit and pay doctors who are seeking to set up practices in the community. She didn't know that but knows that now. The pediatric inpatient admissions may be down at Fish but the reason for this is their very own policies of recruitment, hiring and training. The doctors in the OR don't get enough practice on PEDs because the pediatricians they have recruited are sending the patients to Halifax. That is a strange thing but that is what is going on. Three pediatricians in our communities, one was recently hired by hospital and another pediatric doctor choose to send their patients to Halifax because of Fish and it relives them of the responsibility of providing inpatient care. If these doctors send them to Halifax they are out of the loop. Doctors are paid much less by insurance companies for providing inpatient hospital care than they do for office visits. They are rewarded when they do not admit children to hospitals. This turns over the care of our children to doctors who are unfamiliar with our children and the parents with them. This brings up issues of trust. She wants her child's doctor involved with care. Fish has said they continue to provide ER Pediatric care to Page 43 of 45 Council Regular Meeting December 3, 2007 Southeast Volusia's children as they always have. She was sure they would as they are mandated to do so by Federal law. They have said they would also return outpatient pediatric care under the new name of Twilight Care some time in future. This will definitely be an improvement as our children have none here now. Have you considered traveling back and forth to Daytona with a very sick child for outpatient care? These things to her to be examples of gross mismanagement and administrative neglect by Fish. When Fish unilaterally cut services to 25% of our population, our children, that's it. They notified the community and their own staff one month after their request to change their license was granted by ARCA. After, their own staff. She feels they violated public trust by not following proper procedure and by not giving proper notice to the community or even the insurance companies so that timely adjustments could be made in decisions concerning healthcare. There are parents in the community who have chosen certain insurance companies and pay higher premiums because Fish accepts these companies. When Fish stopped delivering babies they gave the community two years notice. This also gave the hospital time to adjust demographic information they use when applying for various grants and funding sources. Their grants are out of whack by doing this. Halifax's CEO has stated this move will overtax his available resources. Halifax may have to scramble to provide needed care as disease does not just go away. Some of Southeast Volusia Hospital Tax money should go to Halifax. Because Fish's Southeast Volusia Hospital Taxing Authority has demonstrated such a lack of sensitivity to our community's needs, she asked that the Council use caution in working with this hospital and in writing any future agreements with them. She also asked them to contact our County Councilmember and State Representative and the cities of Oak Hill and New Smyrna Beach to work towards bringing another hospital to your area City assuring them they will do all they can to assist the effort. Certainly this move by Fish has partially written any certificate of need necessary. This may help to have a Board, which is more involved with administrative decisions and more proactive and sensitive to the communities needs and the hospital's communication and various quality of care problems. Hopefully then our residents, our most vulnerable, our children will have their rights protected. She asked the Council to please read over the things she submitted as proof of what she is saying. She didn't know a thing about healthcare until four weeks ago. It has been Page 44 of 45 Council Regular Meeting December 3, 2007 a lot of research. The papers and documents she has gotten have been totally without assistance from Fish. Ferd Heeb, 115 N. Riverside Drivel stated there would be a forum Wednesday from 5:00 p.m. to 7:00 p.m. at the Brannon Center on the new Constitutional Amendment with a Powerpoint presentation by the Tax Assessor and speeches by Representative Hukill. 12 . ADJOURNMENT There being no further business to discuss, Councilwoman Councilwoman Rhodes moved to adjourn. The meeting adjourned at 9:45 p.m. Minutes submitted by: Lisa Bloomer Page 45 of 45 Council Regular Meeting December 3,2007