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01-07-2008 - Regular dct CITY COUNCIL OF EDGEWATER REGULAR MEETING JANUARY 7, 2008 7:00 P.M. COMMUNITY CENTER MINUTES 1. CALL TO ORDER Mayor Thomas called the Regular Meeting to order at 7:00 p.m. in the Community Center. ROLL CALL Mayor Michael Thomas Councilwoman Debra Rogers Councilwoman Gigi Bennington Councilwoman Harriet Rhodes Councilman Ted Cooper Acting City Manager Tracey Barlow Deputy City Clerk Lisa Bloomer City Attorney Carolyn Ansay Present Present Present Excused Present Present Present Present PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE, INVOCATION There was a silent invocation and pledge of allegiance to the Flag. 2. APPROVAL OF MINUTES A. Special Meeting of September 24, 2007 . Councilwoman Bennington moved to approve the September 24, 2007 Special Meeting minutes, second by Councilwoman Rogers. The MOTION CARRIED 4 - 0 . B. Regular Meeting of October 1, 2007 Councilwoman Rogers moved to approve the October 1, 2007 Regular Meeting minutes, second by Councilwoman Bennington. The MOTION CARRIED 4 - 0 . C. Special Meeting of November 7, 2007 Councilman Cooper moved to approve the November 7, 2007 Special Page 1 of 40 Council Regular Meeting January 7, 2008 - , Meeting minutes, second by Councilwoman Rogers. The MOTION CARRIED 4 - 0 . 3. PRESENTATIONS/PROCLAMATIONS/PLAQUES/CERTIFICATES/DONATIONS There were no Presentations at this time. 4. CITIZEN COMMENTS The following citizens spoke: Mike Visconti, 316 Pine Breeze Drive, stated he had been away for the Christmas holidays. As they may have noticed his wife was not here tonight. She was admitted into a nursing home in North Carolina. He spent the Christmas holidays with his family in Connecticut. He arrived home on December 30th late in the evening and the next morning he read the news in the Observer from December 19th, Edgewater City Manager ousted, Police and firefighters union claim no confidence in Williams. On December 26th the Observer again, Very bitter Edgewater City FallOut Continues - the Police Chief resigns. The Daily News Journal - Edgewater witnessed a year of leadership change. In Councilwoman Gigi Bennington and Theodore Cooper, Out City Manager Jon Williams and Police Chief John Taves and also retiring City Clerk Susan Wadsworth and her husband Terry Wadsworth. He asked what is happening to our hospitality City. How much is it going to cost the City and where is the money going to come from? For the City Manager he presumed a year salary plus the Police Chief $90,000 plus and money for their replacements. He feels the City is in deep trouble. What is the Council and Mayor going to do about it? He had a recommendation for a Police Chief. He suggested Edgewater's former Police Chief Michael Ignasiak. He stills lives in Edgewater and may want his job back. He would like to see them follow this up. He suggested enticing Lisa and Robin to become the City Clerk. Maybe Ken Hooper might want to come back to be our City Manager. Who knows? Maybe the City Manager and Mayor can wave a magic wand and make the City a place where they can be proud and safe. He lives in Edgewater, the Hospitality City. Dominic Capri a , 606 Topside Circle, wanted to know the salary information department and division which was printed November 7, 2007. We claim and he was sure they were sure right that they gave a 3% increase for everyone, which he knows is not true. There were some that were more than 3%. He asked if that 3% when this was done was included in the November calculations. Councilwoman Rogers stated the 3% across board is accurate. Anyone he would have seen that received a higher raise wasn't Page 2 of 40 council Regular Meeting January 7, 2008 because of it being a raise. It was because of position changes. That is what was indicated to Council from the previous City Manager. 3% was stable. Mr. Capria stated the City Manager got more than 3%. Councilwoman Rogers stated no, he got 3%. Mr. Capria wasn't going to argue with that but he was telling her it was more. He again asked if the 3% was included in the November calculation? Councilwoman Rogers informed him yes. It was supposed to have been. They were not included in the audit reports that were presented to Council when they did the budget. They were told and what they went for was 3%. Mr. Capria stated and it is included in the November calculations. Councilwoman Rogers informed him it should be. The way she understands it. Mr. Capria asked about negotiations. Where do they stand with the negotiations with the Fire and Police Department? In all due respect to Tracey, is he negotiating that contract? Interim City Manager Barlow stated currently with the Police Department negotiations they are waiting for their representative to respond to the last offer. The Fire Department has not even started drafting a contract to present to the City. Mr. Capria asked him if he would be negotiating it. Interim City Manager Barlow informed him no. Mr. Capria stated thank God because he shouldn't be. Mr. Capria stated Councilwoman Bennington promised to go and raise their speaking term to five minutes. He knew she had been busy but asked when she was going to start on that. It was one of her campaign issues. Councilwoman Bennington stated she never said that. Mr. Capria informed her she did. Councilwoman Bennington stated no she didn't. Mr. Capria again informed her she did. Carol Ann Stoughton, 2740 Evergreen Drive, wondered if Council had had a chance to check the debt. She never gets these answers. In a minute Interim City Manager Barlow could answer. How come they can fire people and intimidate them? The morale here is the pits. They fired two men who did a good job in our City. By firing them certain people like Mr. Tenney and Ms. Dewees got anywhere from $8,000 up in raises. Yet they fired them before Christmas. One man just got his social security and the other one the City is fighting and they didn't even make $20,000. It's a sad state of affairs. They use a pitchfork and drive a tractor. They went to Burger King to take a rest stop. Yet they have people that harass and follow these workers who are the people that work in our Hospitality City. That is a sad state of affairs. She would like to see these two men come back in and work for the town. There are other men that shake in their boots because Mr. Tenney goes after them. She feels this has got to stop. With regard to the fact that we have no money Page 3 of 40 Council Regular Meeting January 7, 2008 in this town, the firemen's raises were $104,672 but we have no money. The Police raises were close to that. How much money comes into this town? She heard it is $12 million. She hears it is about $9 million to run the town. Nobody seems to know what is going on. She thinks Interim City Manager Barlow will do a good job. As far as the morale goes, the Mayor came in because he wanted to hire Mr. Williams because that is what he wanted. Ignasiak went out. The morale is the tubes, the pits and everything. Things have got to change. The Mayor created the morale problem in this town. They have got to stop this nepotism. She would like to see those two men get back in town and she would like to see the garbagemen make what New Smyrna Beach makes. They don't even make $11.00 per hour. Do they have the same union? The men that work in all these other departments, if you aren't in the Fire Department or Police Department, you make diddly squat in this town. Yet they can have City Managers go on, put us not in the know. They don't even tell them what the debt is and they want severance pay. Mr. Williams didn't do his job. Sorry. 5. CITY COUNCIL REPORTS Councilman Cooper read a prepared statement for his report. (Attached) Councilwoman Rogers stated as far as what occurred on December 17th regarding the City Manager, there were many employees that have come forward and they were alleging harassment. They were also alleging threats that were made to them if they did not do certain things, what was going to happen. These are alleged. As the Police Department and Fire Department came to the meeting and gave the votes of no confidence in addition to those reports she just mentioned and other things that were going on, the Council pertaining to terms of the contract were allowed to terminate the agreement with Jon Williams for just cause or not for just cause. At the same time knowing these things were going on Mr. Williams was also allowed to terminate. He had heard the rumors in the past. He even mentioned to her on the evening of December 13th about the rumors. He even went so far to say, to allege, to accuse her of soliciting votes and even mentioned Sunshine violation to her. That was a bit much especially since the rumors were around for such along time. Again alleged, lie they are everywhere. The truth is much harder to find. Lies are everywhere. That evening what occurred was a combustion with the Police Department here, the Fire Department here and the employees speaking out. We do have better morale in the City. It was a certain amount of peace the next day coming into the City Hall. Tracey Barlow has a reputation with his Fire Department. There is peace in the Fire Department. She wants to Page 4 of 40 Council Regular Meeting January 7, 2008 see peace in City Hall. She wants to see City Hall in Edgewater have a better reputation. She lives here and she is on the Council. She doesn't want the Council to have the reputation of being a joke. It's been said. People coming forward. Letters, hate mail. They are not clowns. They are intelligent. They are unique individuals. That is why they were elected to this position, to be unique. She said at a forum when she was campaigning to run for her seat around October 2005, it was held at the Edgewater Landing Clubhouse and the City Manager at that time, Ken Hooper, was sitting in front of her in the front row and there were various questions asked. She responded that she would be iron. Iron sharpens iron. It doesn't mean it is going to be easy. It means she is here to try to make it better. She is not trying to point things out. She is not asking questions in the financials to make fun of anybody or label anybody. The previous Council prior to her being elected had a reputation of not being iron. They did not ask questions. Things were passed and there didn't seem to be conflict. Now they have Council that asks questions. Now they have Council that is trying to get the truth. It is harder to get the truth. All they want is the truth. They want the real and they want translucent. She believes the citizens deserve it. If they don't start carrying on business in this manner, it will continue to affect the City and the stigma. We are definitely not Oak Hill. She will fight to prove that. She wants the City to go forward. We have a lot of development that is going to be going on and they have a lot of development that is stagnant. As soon as the economics and different things turn around building construction and things will go forward. She wants to be able to say when her term is up in 22 months, she wants to say that it improved. As far as the City Manager's departure and the way that it was done. She wouldn't have wanted it that way. She wanted the best. She wanted to believe in Jon Williams and she believes he has a lot to offer but unfortunately it wasn't for the City of Edgewater. It wasn't his time. She believes they need to go forward. She is going to encourage Council that when they are looking for the next City Manager to take the reins, they better take their time. They didn't take their time in the past. They need to be prudent, wise and very careful on this next selection. She would like to have Tracey Barlow stay on as City Manager. Unfortunately she thought his passion was with the Fire Department. He is here for now and doing a very good job. Councilwoman Bennington stated she was not going to start off trying to defend anything that has taken place in the past. As an elected official they are all up there do what they deem is in the best interest of the City and that is what they have done. There is a lot of accusations, innuendos, and half-truths out there. They can't justify every action. That is not their job. Page 5 of 40 Council Regular Meeting January 7, 2008 Their job is to take the information they have and make the best decision they know how. That is what they have done. In response to Tracey Barlow, they couldn't ask for a better City Manager. He has taken things that they have been trying to get done for months and years and given them answers in the short period he has been here. She cannot say enough for him. She cannot say enough for Bill Bennett who has taken over as the Interim Police Chief. The whole attitude of this City and their employees has totally changed. People are happy. They are smiling. The people that don't know can say whatever they want. The union negotiations have opened up again where they had been closed down before. They are moving forward. She hopes that the citizens will take this with an open heart and help them move forward to make Edgewater the City it can be and was. Mayor Thomas stated he heard all three Councilmembers say three words. We must move forward. 6. CONSENT AGENDA There were no items to be discussed on the Consent Agenda at this time. 7. PUBLIC HEARINGS, ORDINANCES AND RESOLUTIONS There were no Public Hearings, Ordinances or Resolutions to. be discussed at this time. 8. BOARD APPOINTMENTS A. Police Pension Board - Councilwoman Bennington appointment due to the resignation of Malecia Williams Councilwoman Bennington nominated Jeanne DelNigro to serve on the Police Pension Board. She spoke to the Board and to Jeanne. She couldn't make the meeting because she dislocated her shoulder today. She contacted her today and she would be more than happy to serve. All of the other applicants were at least two years old. Councilwoman Bennington moved to appoint Jeanne DelNigro to the Police Pension Board, second by Councilwoman Rogers. The MOTION CARRIED 4 - 0 . B. Economic Development Board - nomination by the Mayor to fill a vacant seat due to the expired term (09/27/2007) of Robert Lott, who seeks reappointment Page 6 of 40 Council Regular Meeting January 7, 2008 Mayor Thomas stated he couldn't say enough about Mr. Lott. He is doing an excellent job. He is the Chairman of that Board and he would like to reappoint him. Councilwoman Bennington moved to reappoint Robert Lott to the Economic Development Board, second by Councilwoman Rogers. The MOTION CARRIED 4 - 0 . C. Planning & Zoning Board - nomination by Councilwoman Rhodes to fill the remainder of Gigi Bennington's term that expires on April 5, 2010 This item was postponed until the next meeting. 9. OTHER BUSINESS B. Separation Agreement - Council review/approval for City Manager Jon Williams separation Mayor Thomas moved Item 9B up on the agenda to be discussed before Item 9A. City Attorney Ansay stated at the meeting on December 17th the Council directed her to proceed with negotiating a separation agreement with Mr. Williams. Many of the terms in the original employment agreement with the City Manager were relatively straightforward and clear. She sat down and prepared a draft agreement that had the majority of the terms. It was blank as to amounts, she didn't have those and they had to go to Personnel to get that information. She created a document. They went back and forth, the Former City Manager and herself, over some of the terms and ultimately came up with the proposal that is in the agenda packet. The separation agreement in its most basic form provides for releases that are both mutual between the City and the City Manager and that they release him from any liabilities and he releases the City from any liabilities. The main part of the agreement provides for the payment of the severance provisions under the agreement and also for the payout of the annual leave that is remaining with the City Manager. The payment for the severance provision is listed in one lump sum. The other payment that relates to the leave, which is personal, sick and vacation time, was actually spread out over a number of weeks, about 21 weeks. That was something that is not necessary, under the contract could have been and should have been a lump sum. For a number of reasons the City Manager agreed that could be paid out over a period of time. That was one of the issues of negotiations that he put in there. The other issue has to do with the provision relating to consulting. Under the original Page 7 of 40 Council Regular Meeting January 7, 2008 employment agreement with the City Manager, there is a clause in there that provides if the City Manager is needed to provide any consulting, witness or other support to the City after his departure, the City shall pay what is considered a reasonable fee for that. Originally there was a higher number proposed. When she suggested that it should be lower Mr. Williams said that was fine and that is how they wound up at $150. She did some discussion with some other cities as far as what they pay. The $150 is at the lower end of what those services are. That was the other issue that was not in black and white in the original agreement. That required on her part some discretion on her part and ultimately it is up to the Council. Councilman Cooper pointed out that Jon Williams was in audience. He confirmed that this was agreeable with everybody. Mr. Williams informed him yes. He asked City Attorney Ansay if her sign of approval was on it. City Attorney Ansay confirmed it was agreeable with Mr. Williams. City Staff has confirmed the numbers. From the numbers perspective they support the numbers. Ultimately three out of four Councilmembers tonight will determine whether it is acceptable to the City. From a legal perspective she certainly puts her stamp of approval on it. Councilwoman Bennington asked if the $150 per hour and all associated travel expenses and incidentals. What does incidentals mean? City Attorney Ansay stated incidentals include if Mr. Williams is required to go to Orlando to appear in Federal court and has to pay for parking or pay a fee to get into a parking garage, that would be an incidental cost that he incurs that are relevant to that particular expertise. It would not mean purchasing him a fax machine or computer. It is generally viewed as costs that are incidental and necessary to that appearance. Councilwoman Bennington stated she understands there are several lawsuits or things that are coming up that Mr. Williams may have to appear for the City on. The associated travel would be his travel expenses. Is that a per diem or his actual expenses? City Attorney Ansay stated it would be in accordance with whatever way the City normally handles travel expenses. The details on how they would have him reimbursed can be handled by whoever in the City normally handles that. Ultimately, the City is in complete control over whether or not he gets paid. The advantage rests with the City. If he submits something and the City doesn't care for it, they are in complete control the way this is drafted. Councilwoman Bennington asked if travel expenses would be considered overnight expenses if he were required to stay over Page 8 of 40 Council Regular Meeting January 7, 2008 night. City Attorney Ansay stated if he is required, yes. Councilman Cooper stated the section in the agreement is quite extensive for the public. In reference to suing, Jon has basically absolved himself of any claims on anything there from the City. He believes the agreement is more than fair. It was what was in his contract and when you have a contract you have to honor it. They can argue the contract all they like but the next time you write a contract make it different. City Attorney Ansay has done an excellent job. She covered their butts extensively in the settlement. That is why he rushed the judgment to get this over with and alleviate Mr. Williams of any more embarrassment this may be causing. Councilwoman Bennington agreed that City Attorney Ansay has done an excellent job. The contract they have with Jon is horrendous. She would have never agreed to the contract he got. She has no problem with the terms. Councilwoman Rogers stated in the separation agreement at the top of Page 2 she wanted to clarify where it indicates pertaining to without cause. Pertaining to the area where it talks about from all claims demands actions causes of actions and then it says hereby releases and forever discharges the City. If someone were to go against Jon Williams then the City is not going to be held responsible. Is that the way that is to be interpreted? For any of his actions while he was a City Manager. Thereby he is putting the City aside and saying the City would not be on the hook. City Attorney Ansay referred to Paragraph 3 in the agreement. The City Manager is releasing the City from any liabilities associated and then it goes on to list the various things that are delineated. This is a release that the former City Manager is giving in favor of the City. Councilwoman Rogers stated so the Manager is releasing the City. If he was still a Manager and someone were to take action against him, then the City would defend. In this case the City wouldn't because he is releasing the City. City Attorney Ansay stated that is a different issue. She presented an example. If the City Manager feels that he was wrongly terminated and wants to sue the City for damages he has incurred. The City Manager feels that throughout the process he has been defamed or slandered by the City what the agreement is saying is the former City Manager cannot bring a suit against the City for those types of damages. What Councilwoman Rogers is talking about is if they keep reading through the bottom of that paragraph it has an exception about indemnification as set forth in his employment agreement. His employment agreement provides that even after he is terminated if he is in anyway sued as a result of his duties as City Manager, the City will continue to Page 9 of 40 Council Regular Meeting January 7, 2008 incur the costs to defend him as well as any damages in terms of indemnification that may be awarded as a result of those actions, which is common. You would never get a City Manager to work for you if that weren't the case because it is in their official capacity. That wouldn't extend to things that were outside of that. Councilwoman Rogers stated if they go back to the employment agreement or the City Manager agreement on Page 5 under Indemnification where it refers to unless the act or omission involved willful or wonton conduct. At the top of Page 7(b) (1), where it says the City Manager's employment with the City except as follows where the City Manager exceeds the scope of his authority. If he were to exceed the scope of his authority and would have displayed omission involved willful or wonton conduct, then the City wouldn't be supporting him or wouldn't be liable to pay for legal services. City Attorney Ansay stated the Indemnification is specifically described. There are three pages of language in the agreement and those terms apply. Yes the clause related to willful and wont on conduct would govern as well as the provision in the last Paragraph B. Councilman Cooper asked if it is real tough to prove that. Councilwoman Rogers stated the truth is always hard to prove but provable. City Attorney Ansay stated the bottom line is if there was ever a dispute the terms of that language would have to be interpreted by someone. Councilwoman Rogers stated in the employment agreement the $500 travel allowance for personal use of his vehicle for travel. She did a public record request and she found out that there was some mileage reimbursement done by the previous City Manager and then she asked if the $500 travel allowance he received, if he had turned in mileage records and he did not. That would be considered under IRS code a non-accountable travel plan. The $500 would need to be added to his W2 and subject to Social Security and it was so that $500 being that it was subject to Social Security and Medicare was really another form of compensation. It wasn't a travel allowance. If it was it would become an accountable travel allowance and mileage records would have needed to be turned in. Since mileage records were not turned in it was considered non accountable and it was subject to Social Security and Medicare. It was not a true travel allowance but it was a non-accountable travel allowance, which by all description and means there were never mileage records presented so it was just an additional $6,000 per year with no need for accounting records or mileage records because Social Security and Medicare was paid on it. There were mileage reimbursement checks written to the previous City Manager. In the future they need to be very specific in that. Page 10 of 40 Council Regular Meeting January 7, 2008 City Attorney Ansay stated she had heard from the City Paralegal, who confirmed the same thing that it was in there. Most of the contracts she has negotiated and written for City Managers and Superintendents, and Executive Directors of government agencies that typically they are provided a monthly car allowance because they drive so many trips and it becomes not a wise use of your City Manager's time to write down every mile they travel. Almost every contract for that high level managerial position she has ever done, if they check in New Smyrna Beach their City Attorney and City Manager have a similar type provision. The monthly car allowance covers what is usually defined as local travel. They will also often see reimbursement for per diem if they go to a conference in Orlando or Jacksonville where they are claiming for their mileage and hotel because the mileage exceeds what is under the normal local umbrella. Most contracts have that distinction. She didn't know of any of the specifics about what mileage they are claiming she guessed it would be mileage because under his contract the car allowance provided for his local travel but if it was outside 50 miles round trip, he would under his contract have been able to claim that. That is typical in these types of contracts. Councilwoman Rogers stated she went further and asked if there was a lot of travel and she was told there wasn't. It seemed unique to her that there was some mileage reimbursement done when he was already receiving $500 a month travel allowance. Her concern regarding the willful wonton conduct and the City Manager exceeding the scope of his authority, she believes with things that are going on in the City at this time and with the audit they have going on and further inquiries that they not approve the separation agreement tonight and that they can look at this at a later time after some additional investigation has been done. There is nothing that says they have to approve this tonight. Councilwoman Rogers made a motion that they not approve this agreement. Mayor Thomas informed her he was going to open it up for public comment. He then opened the public hearing. The following citizen spoke: Carol Ann Stoughton, 2740 Evergreen Drive, stated it is a sin that this contract was approved in the first place. She knew Mr. Vincenzi and the Mayor were part of it. They didn't give any severance to the poor guys they fired. They don't give them gas allowance. She feels the job that was done was overpaid. She Page 11 of 40 Council Regular Meeting January 7, 2008 thinks the Council, to protect the taxpayers, should cut this separation down to the bare bones. It is a sin what has happened here. They have no answers. They don't know their debt. They don't know their operating expenses. They never got answers from Hooper to Williams who hid everything in the past. Never told the people. What a City, what a shame. Mayor Thomas closed the public hearing and entertained a motion. Councilwoman Rogers moved to suspend approving the separation agreement tonight and put it after the audit has been completed by the City auditors and approved by the City Council after City Council has reviewed it, second by Councilwoman Bennington for discussion. Councilwoman Bennington stated the agreement City Attorney Ansay worked out with Mr. Williams, Councilwoman Rogers was wanting to table it until they get an audit report to find out exactly where they stand. Councilwoman Rogers stated exactly. Councilwoman Bennington stated and not giving him any compensation up until that time. Councilwoman Rogers stated according to the newspaper it said he would be getting approximately $39,000 a week in sick and vacation. Councilwoman Bennington stated but that is in the severance. Councilwoman Rogers stated she understood that. That is a tough one. There are just so many questions that have been unanswered. Some of the employees that have come forward indicating they have been threatened and harassed, they need as a City Council to investigate these claims. Are they valid? If these things are true then they need to do something about it rather than approve the separation agreement and later find out these allegations are true and they already have paid him. Then what do they do as a City? They are using taxpayer money and they have City employees that have these allegations out there. If they don't come forward and don't put it in writing, they can't do anything about that. Since the allegations are out there they need to come forward. If they don't in this period of time, this gives them and the Auditors time to do what they are doing as well. Councilwoman Bennington stated if they approve the separation agreement, anything that comes up after they approve it and legally separate from him, they can't go after him for and they can't hold him responsible for anything that should come up through the audit, unfair labor practices. City Attorney Ansay felt there was some confusion between the terms and the way the contract reads. The only way they can legally get out of payment of severance to Mr. Williams under the contract the City approved is if he were terminated as a result of the conviction of a felony or if he were removed from office by the Governor. Absent those two things happening, there is Page 12 of 40 Council Regular Meeting January 7, 2008 nothing legally they can do to stop the inevitable under the way the contract was drafted. If they have an audit result that comes out that says under his tenure the City made money, lost money, completely bungled the money, or hid the money, unless he was convicted of felony before they terminated him or unless he was released from office by the Governor, this contract provides they must pay him. The provision related to willful and wonton. That has to do with the City's continuing liability to defend and indemnify Mr. Williams after he leaves. If Council pays out under the contract and then they find that there is some lawsuit brought against him as a result of some unfair employment practice, if it were to fall within one of the exclusions, then arguably the City's responsibility to indemnify and hold him harmless would not apply. That does not change their underlying obligation to pay him. They have to be careful not to confuse the two. That is something that could go forward for years, the indemnification issue. That is not going to get resolved today or tomorrow or potentially years from now. The agreement does not provide when they have to reach an agreement under the severance provisions. However, there is that 30-day notice provision that they had to give Mr. Williams. She thinks if they went beyond the 30-day period or much beyond that, the agreement contemplates once he is terminated he is entitled to the severance package. If they go much further beyond that she feels they would be putting themselves in more exposure then they would if they did not act. Mayor Thomas stated if they did not approve this tonight and he sues the City, they are setting themselves up for paying out more money. Councilman Cooper stated exactly. Mayor Thomas stated because then they would have to pay the City Attorney or whoever. Councilwoman Bennington stated plus they may have to pay his attorney fees. Mayor Thomas stated he was trying to save the citizens and taxpayers money. Councilman Cooper stated the contract was an iron-clad contract. They let a contract go through by previous Council that was voted and accepted with very broad latitudes. This Council now really realizes that and is going to be a little more frugal with what latitudes are there but a contract is a contract. He has left positions in his life and never got that kind of money but he didn't have a contract that was iron clad like that. They are stuck with pay up what you honor. Councilwoman Bennington stated the motion she made was to honor his contract. Councilman Cooper stated the motion was to suspend it. Mayor Thomas informed her she seconded the motion for discussion. Page 13 of 40 Council Regular Meeting January 7, 2008 Councilwoman Bennington stated she was talking about the original motion to terminate him. Mayor Thomas stated there is a motion on the floor and a second to suspend. The MOTION DIED 1-3. Councilman Cooper, Mayor Thomas, and Councilwoman Benninqton voted NO. Mayor Thomas entertained a motion. Councilwoman Cooper made a motion that they honor the agreement that was made between Jon Williams and Carolyn Ansay has worked out an agreement and settlement, that they honor that agreement and pay Mr. Williams, second by Councilwoman Bennington. The MOTION CARRIED 3-1. Councilwoman Roqers voted NO. Mayor Thomas called a ten minute recess at this time. The meeting recessed at 7:55 p.m. and reconvened at 8:05 p.m. A. Appeal of Vested Rights Determination - ASD Properties Management, Inc. - ASD Properties (Rodney Jones & Bradley Jones) filed the appeal of the City Manager's Vested Rights Determination on October 22, 2007 for the property owed (110+ acres) located East of Old Mission Road & South of Josephine Street, finding no rights to have vested (tabled/continued from 12/17/2007) Mayor Thomas apologized to Rodney and Bradley Jones for having to wait. City Attorney Ansay asked for them to come to the front. sure they were going to have some things to say. She was City Attorney Ansay stated they have an appeal of a vested rights determination related to ASD Properties Management Inc. She presented a summary for a legal perspective. If there were any planning issues or issues relating to the property itself, Mr. Lear was present. There is a substantial set of information. In the packet is a copy of relevant provisions of the Land Development Code that deal with vested rights determinations. They are in the enviable position of being the first Council to handle an appeal of a vested rights determination. This provision of the Code is relatively new and has never been triggered before. They are going at this for the first time. The provisions of the Code are quite clear and are actually found in a lot of other cities with similar type processes. Page 14 of 40 Council Regular Meeting January 7, 2008 What they have before them is an applicant that applied under the Land Development Code to the City Manager for determination of whether or not the property in question was vested under the provisions of the Land Development Code that had changed during the development or ownership process in this particular case. In the packet they have the original request the City received for a vested rights determination, which was provided to the City by Tye Harris, of Storch, Morris and Harris, a letter dated July 10, 2007. They also have an affidavit that was included with the original packet from Mr. Harris that was signed by Rodney Jones on July 12, 2007. After they received that packet she discussed the matter with staff and staff reviewed the information and they were a little unclear as to all of the issues in the request. She contacted Mr. Harris and asked him to provide some further indication of some specific issues. Behind that is a second affidavit and some additional information that the City was provided. What they are dealing with is a property that is seeking under our vested rights provision of the Code a determination that vested rights exist. There is a specific provision of the Code they are operating under, Section 21.07-03 (a) (2). She then read this section of the Code. There are other provisions in the Code where one can be given vested rights if they have already had a development approval or a permit in place. Those don't apply here because those weren't in place. They are solely operating under that provision of the Code. When the former City Manager reviewed all of the information and applied it to that provision of the Code, he did not believe the property had any vested rights. There was a letter from the City to the applicant stating that there was a determination that no vested rights exist. The Code provides that once the City Manager makes a determination if that determination is adverse to the applicant, the applicant can appeal to Council. The applicant has filed that appeal. The appeal is before Council to make a determination as to whether or not they want to uphold the previous determination made by the City Manager or reverse that previous determination made by the former City Manager. The Code is very specific as to their abilities to consider information. She directed their attention to the fact that the Code provides in any appeal that the review is supposed to be solely based on review of the application and the evidence and support thereof. The Code is specific and that is typical in appeal proceedings. When you have appeals for instances of cases at a trial court, the appellate court is getting the mater and they can only base their decision based on what written findings they have before them as opposed to starting a whole new review before them tonight. That is the way the Code reads. Beyond that if there were any questions she would be happy to answer. She was sure the applicant had a pitch they would like to make to Council. Page 15 of 40 council Regular Meeting January 7, 2008 Mayor Thomas asked Mr. Lear if they had a map or slide that shows where the property lies. The Council had it but he wanted it shown to the public. Mayor Thomas asked Rodney Jones if he wanted to lead off. Rodney Jones, 5809 Antigua Drive, Port Orange, introduced himself. Councilman Cooper asked to butt in. He wanted to ask Interim City Manager Barlow if he had been able to find anything to the contrary of the information they have brought forward to them at this point today. Interim City Manager Barlow stated he hasn't had the opportunity to do an extensive review. In the short amount of time he has been here he has deferred to Carolyn and Darren. Councilman Cooper wanted to make sure something hadn't popped up since that they didn't know about. Mr. Jones stated they started this project in 2005 with the City of Edgewater. He originally approached the City to give him a letter to decline water & sewer or he could go to the City of New Smyrna Beach. At that time they were in the County. New Smyrna Beach was going to provide them with water & sewer. They were told by the City of Edgewater that they would not give them that letter and to come and talk to them. They did and this is with Ken Hooper. Also Darren Lear and Terry Wadsworth were there and a few other department heads. They wanted to annex them into the City well aware they wanted a mobile home park. They are trying to have affordable housing for the City of Edgewater. At that time the City of Edgewater did not have affordable housing. It is still their goal to have that. He didn't know what other issues the City Council may have but he was here tonight to answer them. Mayor Thomas asked Mr. Jones if he had any thing else to add. Mr. Jones stated they have been working all along with the City and have been annexed into the City. They did their Comp Plan with the City. When the City Council changed hands, they hit a stopping point. They were working on their stormwater at that time to get it finished. The subdivision to the south of them, Fort Macaulay was working on the stormwater. They have gotten their PUD agreements without having their stormwater approval. They had asked several times to be put on the agenda in which they were and then they were bumped off the agenda. He didn't have a good reason why except for that they didn't feel they would get their stormwater approval. After the fact they did get it. They reapplied and were turned down because of the new 100- Page 16 of 40 council Regular Meeting January 7, 2008 year flood plain. Mayor Thomas stated he was going to ask for discussion from Council and then he was going to ask for public comments. Councilman Cooper pointed out that Mr. Jones had brought a gentleman with him tonight. He asked him his position. Scott Ross, counsel for ASD Properties, 1000 Legion Place, Orlando, stated he was here representing the applicant. He stated Mr. Jones was speaking for himself but he could give the legal position that ASD Properties was pursuing today and will pursue subsequently although he understands they anticipate some public comment and the Council wanted to talk amongst themselves. He didn't want to take up more time than he needed to. Mayor Thomas informed him they would give them time for rebuttal. Councilman Cooper stated he wanted to make sure he had and the public had sound understanding of the way they understand it. They annexed the property into the City and made tax money off of Mr. Jones. He asked him if he thought because of annexing or his understanding was because of annexing that his plans would have gone forward and a new flood zone wouldn't have mattered and that he should have been approved. He asked if that was the understanding he had through communications. Mr. Jones informed him yes. Councilman Cooper asked Mr. Lear if the understanding was that he didn't recall any promises made by Mr. Hooper or Mr. Williams. Mr. Lear stated no one made promises. Councilman Cooper asked if it was at all even talked about that this shouldn't be a problem. Mr. Lear stated basically it was talked about what the process is and how you get a property annexed, land use change and rezoning. Councilman Cooper stated and his feeling is still along the same lines as Mr. Williams was previously to disallow this. They are recommending the Council say no or he asked if they have changed their mind in light of new things that have happened. There are many issues involved that the public mayor may not be aware of. He hoped they could clear them up tonight and get everything on the table. This is tricky for our City. He asked if there was any change. Mr. Lear informed him no. Councilman Cooper confirmed with Mr. Jones that he felt under all the understandings they were going forward, they purchased the extra land, they have 10 acres. He had a long conversation about this with Mr. Jones to find out if they did do something wrong. There are 10 acres in front along Mission Road that they are not going to develop at all. This partakes more of the back triangle section. Mr. Jones stated out of that 60 acres on the property is wetlands Page 17 of 40 Council Regular Meeting January 7, 2008 and is preserved and already St. Johns approved. He then pointed out where the main development is going to be located on the property. Mr. Jones asked Mr. Lear when they had that meeting, did the City not ask to annex them in to the City at that time. Mr. Lear questioned Mr. Jones having to address his questions to Council. Mayor Thomas informed Mr. Jones to ask him. Mr. Jones wanted to know if at the time they had their original meeting and Mr. Lear was there, did the City not ask them to be annexed into the City? Mayor Thomas asked Interim City Manager Barlow if he wanted to instruct Mr. Lear to answer that or not. Councilwoman Bennington asked if the original meeting was with Mr. Hooper. Mr. Jones informed her yes. Interim City Manager Barlow stated his concern would be do they want to discuss speculations or even understandings that may have occurred at that meeting. He questioned if it was Mr. Hooper, Mr. Lear or Mr. Wadsworth who solicited annexation. Mr. Jones informed him Mr. Hooper. Interim City Manager Barlow asked Mr. Lear if he recalled. Mr. Lear recalled that they said they would accept the application for annexation. Councilwoman Bennington wanted to make sure she understood and stated Mr. Jones applied to the City for them to sign a release so they wouldn't service them under the utilities contract. Mr. Jones informed her yes. Councilwoman Bennington stated and then they had a meeting with Mr. Hooper, Mr. Wadsworth, Mr. Lear and Liz McBride and at that point he was under the impression that they solicited him to come in and be annexed into the City rather than give them this waiver that they won't service them. Mr. Jones stated most definitely. Otherwise they would not be here today. Councilwoman Bennington stated that is why they proceeded with the annexation request. Mr. Jones stated yes it is. Councilwoman Bennington stated the only reason. Mr. Jones stated yes. Councilman Cooper stated is it not true that they wouldn't be able to utilize the City of Edgewater utilities unless they did have proper property bordering the City. Mr. Jones stated they had to be in the City of Edgewater to be served with it was his understanding. Councilman Cooper stated so they knew that and then purchased the additional acreage and then asked for the annexation under the understanding everything would go forward and they would also utilize the City for water & sewer. Mr. Jones informed him that was true. Page 18 of 40 Council Regular Meeting January 7, 2008 Councilwoman Rogers stated it seems pretty straight forward to her. In these vested rights when they are dealing with relying in good faith and reasonable reliance and he met with the City Manager that was sitting at the time. Prior to him doing the annexation request, he presented his case to Mr. Hooper. She remembered conversations with Mr. Hooper on this. It started before she got on Council. When she started on Council, she remembered Mr. Hooper talking about that land and the mobile home park. At one time they were going to have it be a senior citizen mobile home park. Later on that was when they got into it becoming affordable housing. Mr. Jones stated affordable housing for seniors and a mobile home park. He stated they are going to call it a manufactured home. Councilwoman Rogers asked if the land was going to stay in Mr. Jones ownership. Mr. Jones informed her it was. Councilwoman Rogers asked if Mr. Jones was aware of the new overlay and the different studies that PEC has recently done. Mr. Jones informed her yes. Councilwoman Rogers asked him if he was aware that a lot of his land was in the bowl. These manufactured home residents may then be required to get flood insurance. Even though they won't own the land, they will own the manufactured home that is on the land. Mr. Jones confirmed that was true. Councilwoman Rogers asked if there was anything since he will be land owner of record that they will have to do to help them that could help defray the cost since this is going to be considered low income housing for those future potential residents. They are going to then be required to have flood insurance but since he owns the land and they own the manufactured home, she wasn't sure how that works. She asked Mr. Jones if he had looked into that. Mr. Jones stated he hadn't looked into that but the elevation of their road going through there would be about nine and that is the elevation of Mission Road. Councilwoman Rogers recalled when Mr. Hooper did the study and that was referring to the crown of road. Mr. Jones stated the center elevation of Mission is 9 and the center elevation of their road is 9. The manufactured homes would be at least at elevation 11. Councilwoman Rogers stated she was thinking of 36 inches above grade. Is it in that? Mr. Jones informed her yes. They just finished a project in ParkTowne and the floor elevation of their business is 9. It is the same as the road at Mission Road. Councilwoman Rogers asked if the manufactured homes would be brought in on wheels. Mr. Jones informed her yes. Councilwoman Rogers asked if the wheels would then be removed. Mr. Jones informed her yes. Councilwoman Rogers asked if they would then get the HUD seal. Mr. Jones informed her that is required yes. Councilwoman Cooper stated the standard up from the ground level, which would be 9 is two more feet and that is how they get the 11. Mr. Jones informed him yes. Page 19 of 40 Council Regular Meeting January 7, 2008 Councilwoman Rogers stated her big concern is the low income housing they want and knowing they are going into this that those residents will very well be required to have flood insurance or the four corners of the property to have an elevation survey done so if they are within a certain range they won't be required to have flood insurance. Councilwoman Bennington asked how could they do that if they don't own property. Councilwoman Rogers stated it doesn't matter. They will still need to show and prove that. Mr. Jones stated it's a possibility. He was not aware of all the hoops they would have to jump through to prove that. If the house elevation is higher than what the flood elevation is maybe they would not have to have flood insurance. He didn't know. Councilwoman Rogers stated what she was thinking of is these future residents wanting for them to have some kind of a provision in the homeowners or something like that that would mean that that liability of that cost to prove that those manufactured homes are within a certain elevation above the grade of the land, that Mr. Jones would be the one responsible for that so it would then save the future residential homeowners. Mr. Jones stated as soon as they set precedence on one, then of course the rest would follow. Councilwoman Rogers stated so having something like that put into an agreement so these future low-income housing residents would then be able to receive the benefit and not have the costs passed on to them. She wants the developer to pay for that. Mr. Jones was sure they could work something out. Councilwoman Bennington stated this whole problem came about because in the middle of this the land use changed or zoning codes changed. She asked if that is what happened. Mr. Jones informed her yes. Councilwoman Bennington asked Mr. Jones if he was made aware that the changes were coming. Mr. Jones stated yes he was and he tried to get on the agenda. He got on the agenda several times and he was bumped off the agenda. He didn't understand why except for that the Planning Department didn't feel they would get their stormwater calculations correct, which they did. Councilwoman Bennington confirmed this was his feeling and that they didn't say that to him. Mr. Jones stated he couldn't get a definite answer from them on that. Councilwoman Bennington stated so that is the basis of their vested rights. Mr. Jones informed her yes. Councilwoman Rogers asked Mr. Lear if he was aware of this being bumped off the agenda and if there was a delay due to the possible delay on them receiving the stormwater. She asked if that was true and if Mr. Lear recalled anything. Mr. Lear stated Page 20 of 40 Council Regular Meeting January 7, 2008 they started drafting the PUD agreement around the same time to include language for flood plain compensating storage, which would then end up in the September II, 2006 Land Development Code amendments. The City Engineer at the time told their applicant's engineer, Zev Cohen, that even though they had the St. Johns permit they had not necessarily met the flood plain compensating storage requirements and requested they get a modification to that permit with St. Johns. That never happened. They got an email from the City Engineer that asked them not to approve the Oakwood Cove project until Zev Cohen could provide evidence that the permit had been modified based on the current compensation storage proposal. That is why it didn't go forward. Mayor Thomas asked how many acres were there. Mr. Jones informed him 110 acres. Mayor Thomas then asked how many were preserved in wetlands. Mr. Jones informed him roughly 60. Mayor Thomas commented on the problems they have had in Mission Oaks with drainage and flooding. Mr. Jones stated the top of the lift station in Mission Oaks is at elevation 6. Mayor Thomas stated this is part of the Turnbull Hammock system, which is on the Smart Growth's target. The Turnbull Hammock is a big drain that goes into the Indian River. Mr. Jones' property is in that system. When it gets to Edgewater and New Smyrna Beach it starts fingering out. He has walked the property many times. He asked if there is still deer on it. Mr. Jones informed him there are lots of deer. Mayor Thomas stated he is concerned with how low property is. They are going to have to elevate the road and then where are they going to drain all of the water to. Mr. Jones stated that is their stormwater compensation. That is the whole reason for having that. He stated Mr. Lear was talking about Zev Cohen meeting the requirements. They did meet the requirements for that. He didn't know why he didn't have the notification of that. It was after the fact of the PUD meetings they had scheduled. It wasn't before so yes they did meet those requirements. Mayor Thomas opened the public hearing. The following citizens spoke: Carol Ann Stoughton, 2740 Evergreen Drive, stated Mission Oaks is suing the City. They are suing Jon Williams. They have to cart sludge away from Mission Oaks. Their drainage is so poor they flood. She didn't know how much they were paying to remove the sludge. They are in the County and the County will do nothing on that road where the gulleys are to drain the water away. They would like to be annexed because the County doesn't want them. Mission Oaks, those poor people, they flood as soon as it rains. She has walked that property herself. The land is as God made Page 21 of 40 Council Regular Meeting January 7, 2008 ---l it. The drainage is the pits. They are absorbing what wasn't done by the County. Now they are going to build all these houses and those people are going to get flooded. Look at what Coral Trace did to the guy with the motorcycle storage business. There is another trailer park before that that is going to get flooded. There is no place for this water to go. She suggested they carefully go in there and look and see. She isn't against a developer developing low-income homes but is he going to put in the schools and the roads and where is he going to get the dirt from and then where is the water going to flow. They need to think this over. We are in enough of a mess. No matter who promised what, she doesn't think it was a good deal. Maybe Mr. Hayman will help them and let them stay in the County. Dominic Capri a , 606 Topside Circle, stated since it is privately owned and they are looking for the City to give them utilities, he was assuming that was water & sewer only. He lives in a manufactured home and he knows what they pay. It does not include street lighting, retention pond care, or the repairing of the streets. If it is private that means they will be responsible. He is not against them building. It's not a tax base because the only taxes they will get are taxes on the land, which the developer pays. They are not going to get taxes on the home. In their situation they get taxes on a home. He fought a case for five years so he thought he knew what he was talking about. He is not against them doing it. He asked the approximate cost to buy these homes? Councilwoman Bennington stated they are not going to be for sale. You bring your own manufactured home in and you rent the property. Mr. Jones stated there would be new manufactured homes there that would probably run in the range of $40,000 to $50,000. Mr. Capria confirmed Mr. Jones would be selling them. Mr. Jones confirmed that was right. Brad Jones, 1815 May town Road, Oak Hill, stated he loves this town to death. He has a lot invested in this town. Councilwoman Rogers talks about disinformation. He felt he needed to set some people straight. The City of Edgewater hauls sludge from Mission Oaks. They haul it away from there for a reason. Mission Oaks used to be supplied by New Smyrna Beach. New Smyrna Beach no longer receives sewer from that lift station so that lift station has to be emptied. That is why they haul sludge away from there. As far as where the water will go when they build this mobile home park is why they hired an engineering firm. They figured out stormwater calculations. They will be digging retention ponds. You can't go anywhere in Volusia County and not see a retention pond. It was put there to collect the runoff so it doesn't go into the river. They try to save the river because it is an economic boom for Edgewater, New Smyrna Beach and Volusia County. As far as affordable homes, you can't go in Florida Page 22 of 40 Council Regular Meeting January 7, 2008 Shores and buy a house for $100,000 anymore. If you do you are renting it because you are paying taxes and insurance and they are playing flood insurance on over half of Florida Shores. Those payments exceed what most people pay for lot rent in a mobile home park. The people that want to move into mobile home parks want to move in for a reason. They don't want to mow big yards. They want someone to help them. Affordable housing doesn't necessarily mean people down and out on their luck. A lot of times it means someone has reached an age that they don't want a large home to take care of and pay taxes on. As far as the taxes go, they pay the taxes. There isa tax base there. The City doesn't have to take care of the roads because they are private roads. All the City of Edgewater has to do is collect money for their sewer & water and property taxes and supply Fire and Police services. What a win win situation for the City of Edgewater. They aren't out repaving roads in Florida Shores every five or six years because they have dump trucks running up and down them building new homes. They did until the economy went the wrong way. They are just asking to help the City. They have brought business to this town through their industrial parks. He appealed to the Council to help them along because they believe the previous Council when they said they wanted them, they would help. By denying it isn't going to help them. He felt by them spending $1 million already to invest in the City he felt that showed a lot of commitment. He doesn't see a lot of businesses running to Edgewater spending $1 million. Ms. Stoughton asked if they were paying for schools too. Mr. Jones informed her it is fifty-five. Do you have children when you are 55? Councilwoman Rogers stated she didn't have any comments or conversation regarding the sludge. That was Carol Stoughton. Her comments were pertaining to the elevation. Dot Carlson, 624 Arts Center Avenue, stated if the promises made to these gentlemen, that is probably not a good idea. promises were made by previous City Managers, she asked who engineering company was. Mr. Jones informed her Zev Cohen. Carlson stated if promises were made and they can prove the promises, they were asked to annex in. Other properties were asked to annex in. These are going to have to be honored. Either way if they have the rights, they have rights. If it is affordable housing we need it but they still know how she feels about the wetlands. She wished them all the luck in the world. were If the Ms. Jack Hayman, Volusia County Councilman, District 3, stated he had two concerns about this project. He recognized this was a request for reconsideration of a previous decision. Point 1 is Page 23 of 40 Council Regular Meeting January 7, 2008 the wetlands area. They have recently spent a lot of taxpayer money and are going to spend a lot more to create what they are going to call the GIS wetlands map. They already know what the elevations are in Edgewater and Southeast Volusia County. They are on the average 12" lower than the Federal flood plain elevations. That is one of their concerns. The other concern is the relationship with this property and adjacent properties all the way up past SR 44 and further north into Spruce Creek. That relationship is known as the Turnbull Basin. They have done a very good job over the years of disrupting the natural flow and benefit of that to the point where it is very destructive. Contrary to what was said earlier about Mission Oaks, the County has been very much involved with it. He has personally been very much involved with it. They have personally stopped the developer from putting any more manufactured homes in there because of their concerns about his practices and the impact on the Stormwater Management Plan, which is almost non-existent. They have expressed these concerns previously because of other areas that this City has been talking about developing and servicing with developers. The flood plain is a very important issue for them. He will not support this and he will go to his colleagues in Volusia County and ask them to object to it for consistency because it doesn't meet their standards on stormwater management and flood plain management. The next thing they are concerned about is consistency. Consistency is the ability of this City or any government, even if they annex or not, if they have a contract for utility services that they have to meet that obligation. If it is in the development stage they are asked to guarantee service. That is where the problem lies. There has been some discussion about asking if they could or could not and if they can't give them a letter saying they can't because of the capacity of the Water Plant, reuse water and the Wastewater Plant. In 2005 the Legislature said you have to have concurrency or in your 10 year capital improvement program. When the development order and c.o. are issued you better be able to turn it on for that development and the residents. If you look at what is on the plate for Southeast Volusia County, New Smyrna Beach, Edgewater and Oak Hill that is in the process and in the pipelines coming through, there is a serious question about all of Southeast Volusia and its capacity to meet any concurrency standards that might happen. What this means to the City of Edgewater is if you don't have something in the ten-year program today that will meet the capacity to include this and any other adjacent projects remembering you also have utility service responsibility for Mission Oaks, which they haven't got there yet. That is why they are going and pumping two and three days a week sometimes the lift station. The lift station is serving as a repository but has no place to push it so they have to dump it out. That occurred because when they did Josephine and 10th Page 24 of 40 Council Regular Meeting January 7, 2008 Street, the construction to improve the roadway for the high school, they discovered that New Smyrna Beach was given by order of the court the responsibility to service this area. Their lines were in the way and they were inadvertently terminated. The City of New Smyrna Beach working with others decided the most expedient thing to do was to let Edgewater service the area. Edgewater inherited that responsibility. He knows Edgewater has a plan that in the very near future they have the permits in place and they will have a temporary overland service set up for that area to take care of their wastewater problems. With wastewater or concurrency and flood plain considerations, let's move on to workforce and affordable housing. Volusia County is very concerned about affordable housing and workforce housing. ~hey are working with the cities to help try to create a universal plan for our community where they can help and partner in that affect as well. If you say you are going to take 50 acres of the 110 and devote that to workforce housing, he would say this isn't the time to make that determination. The question before the House is do they reconsider the previous decision. He is very concerned about these issues and he would be remiss if he didn't stress his opinion and pledge and tell these gentlemen that Volusia County would be glad to work with the City and the individuals to help address their concerns about the flood plain and also their concerns about concurrency. They are a partner with the City of Edgewater. They work with Edgewater with the Southeastern part of County. That is part of their concurrency that they have to meet as well. Councilman Cooper stated he would like to continue to ask a few more questions of Mr. Hayman. He brought up an interesting thing that has concerned him when he talked to Mr..Lear about doing everything they possibly could to maybe move this project forward and what would have to happen. They were talking about his PUD. He asked Mr. Hayman if he was implying that working between the County and the City of Edgewater and the Jones' that they might raise the elevation or maybe the manufactured homes be at 36" instead of 24". Mr. Hayman informed him no. Councilman Cooper then asked if he was talking about larger retention ponds or special plumbing for running this water off. County Councilman Hayman stated what it takes is you have to make an assessment of what the wetlands really consist of. They have to classify the wetlands. They have to look where the water comes and where it goes. They do that through looking at the elevations. They have the manmade obstructions and manmade features that help facilitate it. It's not a simple task. It's a very difficult task. The water knows no bounds or jurisdictions and this is what creates the concerns of the County. He agreed with Mayor Thomas 100% about the Turnbull Basin. The City of Edgewater has a large part of the Turnbull Basin. It's not just this City. Page 25 of 40 council Regular Meeting January 7, 2008 New Smyrna Beach passes it to Edgewater. Edgewater passes it to the County, and the County passes it to Oak Hill. Ultimately it ends up in the heads of the Indian River. They have to eradicate that mindset. This is our Turnbull Basin. That means collectively sitting down and working out solutions to rectify the problem. Concurrency has already been established in 2005 by the Legislature. They have to count up the number of gallons they have, the consumptive use permit and all those things the Development Department has agreed to and the obligations they have made. If these gentlemen have done that they are somewhere in the pipeline. If they have made that obligation or their predecessors have, the Manager can't do this. The Council does it. Mayor Thomas stated what they are talking about when they are building roads and elevating, they are building many dikes in that system. The Water has got to go somewhere. He has seen it wet and the water goes all the way and it rushes. We haven't had a wet year. He doesn't see how they can approve something that is in a flood plain. Councilman Cooper stated it sounds like it's an engineering situation that they would have to take another look to see how they are channeling the water and he is going to look at the Jones'. They had the engineering firm on that was those types of studies done where the County could be a little more lenient which would help them with a decision. Mr. Jones stated Zev Cohen did all studies. They already had their St. Johns approval for the project. Councilman Cooper asked if that was prior to the flood plain change. Mr. Jones informed him yes. They also had the Army Corp of Engineering approval. Councilman Cooper stated and the new one that Darren eludes to has not been done to show it is still okay or not okay. Mr. Jones stated the time they applied for a PUD nothing had been changed by City Council. Within a couple months after that they actually had all of their stormwater calculations correct and submitted them to the City of Edgewater. Councilman Cooper stated he understands prior to the zoning change. Is there, knowing the property, anything Mr. Hayman sees engineering where these gentleman would have a caveat or someway possible to go forward with a project? Do you see any loopholes? County Councilman Hayman stated he is not qualified to address that. They have made assertion that they have Water Management approval and the Army Corp of Engineers approval and he would say that is all well and good. The development process requires local approval. The reason they get those through is because they have a system where they must do things a certain way in a certain time frame. It takes them longer to make a determination than St. Johns because of the criteria they use is much more strenuous and detailed. They have 16 or 17 checks they go through on it. St. Johns and the Army Corp does not. They look at it from a different perspective. They each look at it in a different light. Irrespective of what they have done already they still Page 26 of 40 Council Regular Meeting January 7, 2008 have to get the local chop, which is done in much more detail. He is not qualified to look for loop holes. The Council has to make the decision. The discussion about Mr. Hooper doing this or not, he was a professional. He knows the man and he thinks if he made some offer there would be a written record. That is out of character for any Manager to do that without having some sort of record or recommendation from staff. The Council are the only ones that can make the decision. They can offer annexation and utilities, all a Manager wants, but Council approves the budget and the capital projects and programs and they are the ones that have the final chop when it comes to land development use and growth management matters. Councilman Cooper stated he is trying to get down to the basics on it. He was in agreement with City Attorney Ansay on the vested issue. He is looking at that as we aren't there but on the same token perception is reality. He doesn't want Edgewater to look like a City that turns down builders one after another. He wouldn't want to go forward with project that was going to hurt families in the future. They have to look at that to see whether there is something that can be done. County Councilman Hayman stated theirs is an ethical issue. They want to be fair to all concerned. They want to do the least amount of harm. They can never deviate from the Comprehensive Plan and the Land Development Code. If they look at those they will see that the merit of what staff has done previously should be supported today. If they have made their due diligence discoveries and used the criteria outlined in there, he would say they are compelled to use that information. If they heir and don't use that information, they are vulnerable through some of the litigation. They have to go back to the Land Development regulations and it tells them what the requirement is that they must use to make a decision. The Planning & Zoning Board uses the same criteria. Councilman Bennington stated they went through every step of the Planning & Zoning Board and were approved through every aspect by the Planning & Zoning Board. She feels all of the talk they are going through is very important and they need to consider it. They are here for a vested rights issue. Nothing else. Did they comply and do they have the vested right to develop this property per our Comprehensive Plan, per our Planning & Zoning Board recommendations. That is what they need to address. That is the only issue they need to address. The Planning & Zoning approved everything or they wouldn't be here asking for vested rights. Mr. Lear stated they didn't approve the rezoning. They approved the annexation and the land use. Councilwoman Bennington stated they are asking for vested rights on the land use? Mr. Lear Page 27 of 40 Council Regular Meeting January 7, 2008 stated they have the land use, they have the density. Councilwoman Bennington asked what the vested rights were that they were asking for. Mr. Jones stated to continue with the project. Mr. Lear stated to develop it per the Code before it changed on September 11th. Councilwoman Bennington stated so the question is do they have that right or not. Councilman Cooper stated do they believe it was privy conversation or is it in writing some place. Councilwoman Bennington stated they came into the City and the Planning & Zoning Board annexed them. The Council had to agree to the annexation. Councilman Cooper feels it seems very difficult to understand whether there was conversations held that would make them think one way or the other. Councilwoman Bennington felt whether there were or not at this point is immaterial. She agreed with Ms. Carlson. If they were promised something she feels they should uphold it. They don't know. They have their sworn statements but they don't have a record of Mr. Hooper. Mr. Lear is saying he doesn't remember. It's a matter of they need to make a decision based on the facts they have before them and not rely on memories. City Attorney Ansay stated they needed to make a decision based on what is in the record and what is included in the agenda tonight. There has been a lot of discussion about issues that relate to the project but quite frankly they aren't there yet. Tonight's decision is whether or not Council feels they are vested and are going to reverse the decision that the City Manager made that they were not vested. Councilwoman Bennington stated if they agree they are vested, does that mean they are going to allow them to develop it prior to the September II, 2006 Code. City Attorney Ansay stated if they determine they are vested, the changes that were made on September II, 2006 don't apply to the project at that point. Councilman Cooper stated the new flood plain would not apply to the zoning as it was changed. Councilwoman Bennington stated she knows that area is a flood area. She has been here a long time and has seen a lot of places flood. They want economic development and to be business friendly. They have a company here that has invested a tremendous amount of money in Edgewater already, in ParkTowne and in this project. Are they going to consider that? Is that something they need to consider? They can't consider whether it is going to flood or not either. City Attorney Ansay stated the Council's job tonight is not to consider whether it is going to flood or whether or not the project will ultimately serve the best needs of the citizens of Edgewater. Their job tonight is to determine whether or not under the legal parameters of the Code they feel the Jones' Page 28 of 40 Council Regular Meeting January 7, 2008 brothers are vested from the changes that took place on September 11th. That entails whether they think there was sufficient evidence in the affidavits they submitted that they established that they in good faith relied upon some clear and unequivocal act or promise by the City and have made a substantial change in position. Based on her conversations with the previous City Manager who made this decision, everybody agrees they meet the second criteria, which is have changed their position. They have invested a tremendous amount of money, which is one of the important prongs of the test. She thinks the question she heard the Council 'struggling with is whether or not the statements made by staff and also beyond the statements, they have the applicant asserting whether or not the mere act of approving the rezoning and the land use designation change were also essentially an act or promise by the City to create that vested rights status. If the Council sees it differently than the City Manager, they overrule it. If they don't, they are back to where they were before and that is that they are not vested and so the new changes would apply. Councilwoman Bennington stated but they are also in a position where they are damned if they do and damned if they don't. City Attorney Ansay stated they are in a very difficult position. Councilwoman Bennington stated the way she is reading the existence of vested rights, she is of the opinion that they have vested rights. They have given affidavits. They don't have any affidavits to deny what they said. They have agreed to do whatever they have asked them to do to protect this and hold the City harmless, to continue with this. She feels they have vested rights. Councilman Cooper stated as he understood the new flood plain and the PUD that is submitted to Mr. Lear for the project. He assumed that was for prior to the new flood plain. Mr. Lear stated the original PUD draft, correct. Councilman Cooper stated if he votes vested okay here tonight he has to live with that and he runs the risk of high water problems and messing up the basin and the travel of water. He asked Mr. Lear what he sees if there is anything in the PUD that has not been approved yet that he would like to see before he could say there are some gray areas they would have to demand. He realized they could still do that if he is correct. Mr. Lear informed him the PUD agreement has not gone to the Planning & Zoning Board or Council. He felt he needed to ask the applicant as well. If they were willing to put the flood plain compensating storage language in their PUD agreement as it is in the Land Development Code. The other issue right now is the net density calculation. Any lands within the 100-year flood plain don't get counted in rural properties. That is a major issue as well. One way to look at it is to let them go back to the original densities as they were determined previously but still have the compensating storage language in Page 29 of 40 Council Regular Meeting January 7, 2008 the PUD agreement. Councilman Cooper asked if the compensating storage is something that can actually be done. Mr. Lear stated it has to be outside the 100-year flood plain adjacent to them. He wasn't sure if there was other property adjacent to it. They could do that. Councilman Cooper stated it doesn't look that way. That would be tremendously difficult for them. He asked if additional retention areas would solve the problem. Mr. Lear stated not for a flood plain. Councilman Cooper asked about liability. Mayor Thomas stated that was his question. If they do approve that and everything around them gets flooded is the City liable? City Attorney Ansay stated if they approve the concept tonight that the project is vested, that in and of itself she didn't believe causes them. liability. It is a legal determination whether or not they are vested. The City can't be swayed on that issue because they think the other properties might flood or because they think there might be liability. If they determine they are vested and then they go through the development process and they enter into a PUD agreement with the City that is when they are going to have to address those issues. If they fail to do so that is when she thought there could be problems. She spoke about having FEMA issues to contend with that were discussed at the last workshop that they want to make sure they don't get in trouble with. If there were flooding related issues that is when those need to be addressed. They can't be legally swayed by the fact that they think there might be flooding in determining whether they are vested or not. They have to look at merely whether they believe they had that promise or those acts taken by City led them to believe they were going to get all of those approvals. If they think that is the case then they reverse the City Manager. If not then they uphold it. Councilwoman Bennington stated if they say they are vested, they still have to go through all the planning and meet all of the criteria before September 11, 2006. City Attorney Ansay stated they would have to comply with all of the criteria prior to September 11, 2006. Councilwoman Bennington stated so all they are really deciding tonight is have they laid the paperwork and the groundwork whether they think they are vested or not. City Attorney Ansay confirmed that was right. Councilman Cooper asked if they were less liable if they went by the old Code then if they made changes to the new Code to adhere to the project or make the project better. Councilwoman Bennington asked how can you do that? City Attorney Ansay stated let's assume eventually there would be properties neighboring this development that flooded and suffered damages. She thought the question was if Council found them to be vested so that the old provisions of the Code applied and they were complied with through the process and Page 30 of 40 council Regular Meeting January 7, 2008 then that happened, would they be more or less likely to be liable than if they said they aren't vested and have to comply with all the new provisions of the Code but then cut them some slack in the development process. She feels they would be less liable in the latter scenario, which is say no tonight but then cut them some slack. They would basically be saying they would apply the new rules to them but they would cut them slack on them. She feels this causes some willful act on the City. That is different than saying they are vested so the rules never applied to begin with. If they are vested as a matter of law a neighboring landowner who is flooded can't say they were negligent in applying something that doesn't apply to them. The net result of it is if they assume for a moment someone is going to be harmed, suffer damages and want to sue the City, the City's chances of being liable are less likely if they say they are vested and they don't apply then if they say they aren't vested and they bring them back in a couple of weeks and tell Darren to figure something out, they want these boys to be able to develop. Councilman Cooper stated if they honor the old Code they are in a lesser liability state and say they are vested because they would be honoring Code that they were approved for. If they don't and they give Darren seven or eight points they want to change, they are in a liability because they are going against their own site and map. City Attorney Ansay stated she would generally agree. Councilwoman Rogers commented on the mention made of this being bumped off the agenda. On September 11, 2006 they did the new Land Development Code. She recalled various developers that came forward immediately that wanted to have a determination whether or not they had vested rights. When they were bumped off the agenda, were they wanting to come forward to have that determination? Mr. Lear stated that was the PUD agreement. Councilwoman Rogers stated so they weren't wanting to come forward at that time like other developers to discuss whether they had vested rights. Mr. Lear stated the other developers had their PUD agreements adopted. Councilwoman Rogers stated their PUD was not adopted. She believed at one point they made a determination if the PUD was not adopted they had no vested rights. City Attorney Ansay stated as to height they did. Councilwoman Rogers stated that was the reasoning and logic they used to base their decision at that time. She is looking for consistency and logic. They used that logic, the PUD being approved as of September 11th to determine whether or not there was vested rights for the people wanting to build in excess of 35 feet. That was the logic they used at that time. That may be something they need to think about when they are doing this. She was wrestling with this. They were bumped off the agenda. She realizes and feels they relied in good faith and reasonable Page 31 of 40 Council Regular Meeting January 7, 2008 reliance. They have to look at what is given to them. At the same time in this letter they are talking about Mr. Hooper's statements. They have had arguments a lot with developers that say Mr. Hooper promised this and promised that. If it wasn't in writing and she didn't see Mr. Hooper here giving evidence to the contrary so. Mayor Thomas stated this is not an easy decision. The Jones' are good people and good business owners. They came under some rules and then the rules were changed on them. He feels this is unfair. He can't get over where they want to build. Councilwoman Rogers stated she is wrestling with I like this but I don't like that. She liked the fact that they were bringing in manufactured homes so it won't create those non-pervious surfaces. Councilwoman Bennington stated they couldn't think about that. Councilwoman Rogers stated they are still thinking about even though they are not supposed to because they are going to be blasted for all those things they aren't supposed to think about anyways. City Attorney Ansay stated they are dealing with a big issue that will very likely result in litigation tonight if decision isn't one the Jones' brothers are happy with. The decision is based strictly on whether or not the evidence before them, the discussion on conversations, the acts of approving annexation and the acts of approving the Comprehensive Plan change, but falling short of the ultimate PUD agreement whether that in and of itself was sufficient to give them an act or promise they felt they could rely on and go out and spend all that money. They don't want to have a record that reflects a lot of other conversation, with all due respect to the Jones' brother, the first thing they are going to do is run into court and say hey judge the Council was swayed by the fact that there are affordable housing issues or a lot of deer on the property. That is not what issue is before them. Councilwoman Bennington stated they are asking for the existence of vested rights under Land Development Code Section 21.07- 03(a)(2). Councilwoman Bennington made a motion that give them vested rights based on them complying with this Section of the Code. Councilman Cooper asked Councilwoman Bennington to say that again. Councilwoman Bennington stated she makes a motion solely on the basis that they comply with this section of the existence of Page 32 of 40 council Regular Meeting January 7, 2008 vested rights per our Code. City Attorney Ansay stated that they have complied. Councilwoman Bennington stated right that they have complied. City Attorney Ansay stated that they have met that criteria. Councilwoman Bennington stated solely that they complied with this criteria. She informed the Council she was protecting herself. Councilman Cooper stated he was going to second the motion because he wanted to open this for discussion for one more question he was concerned about. Councilman Cooper stated if they give the vested rights on the simple issue and that is what they are up to, he is concerned with the things that Jack brings up and the Mayor brings up and he is concerned with the people that may be living there and the people around them. He asked Darren and the Jones' any stipulation, if elevation had to be higher or if the modular homes had to be higher, if additional liabilities for any if the flooding within area where somehow a clause they would put in their contract, if additional infrastructure had to be spent, would you be willing to go that mile. If Darren came back with four or five items and this Council considered the vested rights issue just like Councilwoman Bennington mentioned and that was submitted to them, do they have in good faith that they would work with them and go forward that way. The Jones' brothers agreed to work on those issues, yes. Councilman Cooper stated and you will comply and come forward as long as it isn't totally ridiculous that it would be so cost effective that the project wouldn't go forward. He asked Mr. Lear if this floats any bridges with him. Interim City Manager Barlow felt he was putting Mr. Lear in a situation where he is going to provide direction or a decision on a planning and development order that that may be before them at a later date. He didn't know that that was a fair position to put him in. The MOTION CARRIED 4 - 0 . Mayor Thomas stated the Jones' brothers were led down the primrose path. You can do this and you can do this and then the rules changed on them. They know how he feels about those wetlands. He thinks somebody told them something and they invested a lot of money. Councilwoman Rogers stated they had good faith and reasonable Page 33 of 40 Council Regular Meeting January 7, 2008 reliable upon the information. There was a ten-minute recess at this time. The meeting recessed at 9:20 p.m. and reconvened at 9:30 p.m. Due to the rest of the meeting not recording, the following minutes are done based on notes taken at the meeting. B. Separation Agreement - Council review/approval for City Manager Jon Williams separation This item was previously discussed on the agenda. C. Approval of Work Order #2007-03 - for Quentin L. Hampton Associates, Inc. For the Stormwater Master Plan - Letter of Map Revision (LOMR) and authorization for the Mayor or City Manager to execute Deputy Director of Environmental Services Brenda Dewees made a staff presentation. Councilwoman Bennington moved to accept the recommendation of Ms. Dewees, second by Councilwoman Rogers. The MOTION CARRIED 4 - 0 . D. City Clerk Position - discussion on interview process Interim City Manager Barlow made a staff presentation. The Council was presented with 12 applications. He wanted them to discuss amongst themselves and provide him with a short list between four and five that he can bring back at a later date, at the January 28th meeting to conduct interviews from there. He would like them to select a workshop date to further discuss applications and then they could go into a Special Meeting to create a short list and bring those people back before Council for interviews. Councilman Cooper had some concerns about the interview process. He felt two or three candidates may eliminate themselves by answering certain questions. At the workshop they could bring a short list and have those folks available in the workshop and afterwards, when they are dismissed, they could talk amongst themselves as far as best possibility for the City. Interim City Manager Barlow informed Councilman Cooper they would not be dismissed. This would be done in the public under the Sunshine. The purpose of the workshop would be to determine the rules and responsibilities of the City Clerk and make sure they are on the same page with what they are looking for and then from Page 34 of 40 Council Regular Meeting January 7, 2008 there they could go into a Special Meeting and start to discuss and select those applications and what they expect of the City Clerk. They could then have some discussion to create a short list and bring them back for an interview at a later time. They would discuss and ask questions of the applicants. They could hold a meeting after to discuss which ones have removed themselves from the process. Councilman Cooper felt the priority was have a contract again so they should do was how bad do they need a City Clerk. the process. to set the criteria and that first. His concern He commented on reversing Councilwoman Bennington stated they haven't worked under any other City Clerk except Susan. She worked under two different City Clerks. The City Clerk is a very important position. It is a Charter position. She feels they need to have a workshop with all of the Council so they each know what they expect out of the City Clerk. This is a very important thing. They are on the brink of moving forward. There is going to be a lot of new things coming up. She feels everybody has an idea of what they expect. Susan gave them a breakdown of some of her jobs. She thinks they need to decide what they as a group expect out of a City Clerk before they can pick people out. They need to decide how much they are going to pay and the benefits and negotiate a basic contract. Councilman Cooper commented on the City Clerk being valuable to the Council and the public. He commented on how tough the job and the stress it puts on an individual. He mentioned getting some temporary help while the process goes forward. They are agreeing to minutes that are two months old. He mentioned the Clerk having classroom training with Ann McFall. He didn't want to have them go another month. He wanted to have this done by the end of this month. Interim City Manager Barlow asked the Council to set a date for a workshop and for them to give him direction. He and City Attorney Ansay could work on contract. They are looking at Thursday, January 17th at 1:00 p.m. for the workshop. Councilwoman Bennington felt it would be a good idea to do like they do in negotiations with a round table and not sitting up at the dais so they can look at each other and discuss things. Councilman Cooper commented on doing it in the Sunshine and getting input from the citizens. January 17th was fine with him. Councilwoman Bennington again mentioned the round Table. Councilwoman Rogers would like the City Clerk applicants to come in and they can ask them questions freely. Interim City Manager Barlow suggested they schedule interviews for January 28th. This Page 35 of 40 Council Regular Meeting January 7, 2008 will be a workshop so they do not have to accept public input. It was the consensus of Council to hold interviews on January 28th. Councilman Cooper commented on the City Attorney's time. He felt something could be submitted rather than having her tied up. City Attorney Ansay explained the goal of the workshop is to go through the twelve applicants and reduce that down to a manageable number to short list and interview. She doesn't need to be present for that. Councilman Cooper asked about setting the criteria and the contract. City Attorney Ansay stated they could discuss the terms of the contract and that she would provide samples to look at. It is not important for her to be here. Councilwoman Bennington commented on discussing the terms they would be willing to negotiate. Susan's contract was way back twenty years ago. She had no current contract. She feels they need to decide what they are willing to offer. She felt some may drop out. Interim City Manager Barlow informed the Council they had three goals, for the Council to come up with a consensus of what they expect of the City Clerk, discuss what they want to see in the contract with the City Clerk and to short list the applications they currently have. Mayor Thomas felt the contract was of the utmost importance. Interim City Manager Barlow informed the Council the Charter suggests the Clerk live within the City limits unless the Council excuses that. That is something else for them to think about. Councilman Cooper commented on moving forward with the City Clerk and in the Charter this being a reassessment year and the need to reactivate the Charter Review Committee. He wouldn't want to move forward without the City Clerk. Interim City Manager Barlow agreed to put everything together for January 17th and they could still have the interviews. The City Attorney should start negotiating the contract by the beginning of February. 10. OFFICER REPORTS A. City Clerk Deputy City Clerk Bloomer had nothing at this time. B. City Attorney Page 36 of 40 Council Regular Meeting January 7, 2008 City Attorney Ansay had nothing at this time. C. City Manager 1) Tentative Agenda Items b. Update on Animal Shelter Interim City Manager Barlow informed the Council he was still gathering facts. He would have a more comprehensive report on January 28th. Councilman Cooper asked Mayor Thomas for his permission to spearhead this. There is a complete outline to get done and done correctly. He would like to be a part of that. Interim City Manager Barlow informed him they would discuss this on January 28th. They will do some fact finding. He will be looking for assistance for the five Council to spearhead this. He commented on finishing the fact finding and progressing forward. He will draw lines in the sand. He will also need until January 28th. Councilwoman Cooper stated he was tentatively going to request the Animal Control Board invite them to a meeting and they can lay down the priorities or outline things they need to start looking at and getting done. When this consummates it will already be in the works. Interim City Manager informed him the Animal Control Board is a separate board. Councilman Cooper stated there are a lot of dedicated folks that want input. He doesn't want to exclude folks but he does want to utilize those assets and start giving them assignments. Interim City Manager Barlow informed him they are not there yet. Councilwoman Bennington asked about the early separation. She mentioned not doing anything with it. Interim City Manager Barlow stated he was looking for direction from the Council. Councilman Cooper commented on going through a contract upheaval. His general feeling was it wasn't really a contract he would have written himself. He mentioned all of the directors having contracts. He feels they need to look at all avenues. He would like to look at all the contracts. He spoke of having a severance policy that isn't so extravagant. By setting the policy it relieves the City Manager of falling into these things that end up costing the City $150,000 or $160,000. Councilwoman Bennington explained the employee early separate retirement options had to do with the early retirement buyouts. Interim City Manager Barlow commented on this being two separate issues. Councilwoman Bennington referenced early retirement separation incentives in other cities. She also commented on the Page 37 of 40 Council Regular Meeting January 7, 2008 existing contracts being previous contracts that were offered to the directors. Interim City Manager Barlow recommended bringing this back to Council at a future date. They could give him parameters and he could negotiate a contract with more of a template. Councilman Cooper commented on the incentives offered to employees to retire early. He likes that but he doesn't want to see anybody else leave. Councilwoman Bennington stated they can't afford it. She commented on Interim City Manager Barlow having so much on his plate. She suggested they don't put it on the agenda for a while and let it set until after the audit and mid year where they know where they stand financially with regard to early retirement separation options and early buyouts. Councilman Cooper suggested they put all three together and get Donna in personnel involved and start workshops accordingly. Interim City Manager Barlow commented on prioritizing. They are thin staffed right now. Councilwoman Bennington felt this was not a hot issue item. Councilwoman Cooper suggested they attack it with the other three items and put it to bed rather than keep reviewing it. c. Reminder that next Council meeting was re-scheduled from January 21st to the 28th Interim City Manager Barlow reminded Council the January 21st meeting was rescheduled to January 28th. Interim City Manager Barlow wanted to tentatively schedule a 5:30 workshop to hold interviews on January 17th. Councilman Cooper commented on having a dual interview. He suggested they work on January 17th to establish a date for interviews. Mayor Thomas commented on having a VCOG meeting that started at 5:00 p.m. This was a very important meeting that he didn't want to miss. d. Cancel or reschedule the February 18th meeting due to Presidents' Day Holiday Interim City Manager Barlow informed Council of the holiday on February 18th. They can either cancel it or move it to February 25th. Councilwoman Bennington suggested they wait until it gets closer Page 38 of 40 Council Regular Meeting January 7, 2008 to see what they have. Interim City Manager Barlow commented on Councilman Cooper's inquiry status on various projects. He received an organizational chart today. Interim City Manager Barlow then went over the hiring process timeline for the City Manager. Mayor Thomas asked how much a consulting firm would cost. Interim City Manager Barlow informed him approximately $20,000. Councilman Cooper asked if the Range Riders fall under that. Interim City Manager Barlow commented on playing phone tag with Range Riders. City Attorney Ansay commented on there being a cost associated to the Range Riders but she didn't think it was that high. 11. CITIZEN COMMENTS The following citizens spoke: Agnes Witter, 223 Flagler Avenue, stated she has been told that in prior years the City was looking to replace a City Manager. If they contacted the League of Cities and told them they were looking for City Manager that they would do the footwork for them at no charge. She asked Gigi if she knew anything about this. Councilwoman Bennington stated she knew they offered help but she didn't know if they charge. Ms. Witter suggested they look into this to save money. Interim City Manager Barlow mentioned this being the Range Riders she was referring to. Carol Ann Stoughton, 2740 Evergreen Drive, commended Tracey for his honesty and his leadership that she has seen tonight. It took her years to find out the City's debt. She was told tonight what the debt was as soon as she asked him but she wouldn't say what it is. Ms. Stoughton felt Lisa Bloomer deserved accommodation. She is not paid enough for what she does. She wished she would have taken the City Clerk job. She feels she should get a merit increase holding up fort. She is the most pleasant person she has ever seen. She does everything you ask for. Interim City Manager Barlow commended City staff and mentioned that everybody had stepped up to the plate. Mike Visconti, 316 pine Breeze Drive, informed Council that in the State of Florida the funds for Medicaid are frozen. There is a waiting list of two years. He asked the citizens and the Page 39 of 40 Council Regular Meeting January 7, 2008 Council and the news reporters to write to their State representative to Governor Christ that they need more facilities for this. He spoke of this being already over a year old and he hasn't heard a thing about any progress being done. He spoke of alerting the people that we need bigger facilities and more facilities and they have to have someone look into this and where they could get the funds unfrozen and this waiting list could be less of a waiting list. He brought his wife to North Carolina and her daughter lives there and in two months she got her mother in a facility in North Carolina. He just wanted to make people aware. Mr. Cooper helped him out a great deal through Fairgreen where his wife was for two months. It was too expensive for her to be there. He was bringing this up to have the people aware of what is going on in the State of Florida. 12 . ADJOURNMENT There being no further business to discuss, the meeting adjourned at 9:58 p.m. Minutes submitted by: Lisa Bloomer Page 40 of 40 Council Regular Meeting January 7, 2008 " Council Mtg. 1/07/08 In my report I feel I must address some of the concerns and issues raised by the most recent turn of events in our city. First due to the Holidays and the more recent turmoil most of the directors and general employees were engrossed in re-aligning the city to move forward. Even during this time of uncertainty the attitudes were improved over night and people began to dig in to do a job. I have managed to meet with Mr. Barlow our new city manager on some of the issues I presented to the public last month. I also had an opportunity to discuss in detail up and coming events with our city attorney as well as the Planning & Zoning Director, Darin Lear. At this time I want to make the public aware that all of the points I presented to you are now under consideration and being researched for implementation. The cooperative nature that the new city manager has attacked our city's problems should be commended. I want to personally thank Tracy Barlow, the Department Heads, and the employees, that have made themselves accessible to me for information and questions about my suggestions. I am excited about the upcoming workshops and a new attitude of Moving Forward to make our city all that it should be. I believe in tonight's meeting the citizens will be able to see a more open and positive approach to issues that face this city and all cities in Florida. On a more negative note I feel compelled to respond to the recent concerns and rebuttal in the community. No matter which side of the employee, City Manager, and the Police Chief issue you supported, I want the citizens to know that everything that could have been done was attempted by me. Once Mr. Williams made it clear that he was content '. with an immediate response by council and just wanted the matter concluded, he virtually wrote the outcome. As to some accounts that imply I am guided by special interest groups is simply false. My purpose is and has always been to make a better place where I live, and I live here with you all in Edgewater. I have presented ideas and revenue generating programs that have the potential to bring substantial dollars to the city, this year, and without any cost to the taxpayers. . . So the accusation that I will raise your taxes is also a false. . . I am here fighting for the citizens and the city. I see opportunity in the difficult times ahead, and a chance that if we now do our jobs with intent and enthusiasm, Edgewater will be ready and able to satisfy decisions passed down by state & county, as well as improving our Advelorum tax percentages. More importantly handle the ever encroaching growth that we need in our community. I want the citizens to work with this council, I want committees and advisory boards to get more involved, and we must keep the attitudes of our city's employees and services at the highest possible point. This will be a very long hard drive ahead and many things are going to seem out of place and new, but we must stay focused on the goal. Once again we have to ask for folks to roll up their sleeves and offer their expertise and keep an open mind to change. As we begin an employment search that will mean everything to our city we need for those of you in the audience to step forward and make us here on this panel aware of the talents you have out there, I believe we have a city manager right here residing in our city, and we need a person that can bring experience and an understanding of the difficulties we have created and now need to repair. We must move forward. The dynamics of the person we seek is real management skills with the proven record of success. Superior knowledge of government is not what Edgewater needs. I want you to know in an attempt to make things better and bring balance we need a completely different approach of leadership, training, and negotiating skills. 2 " . . ... Please I ask you as a community to come together now and lefs make the best of it, and build a city we all can be proud to live in. Thank You for my time, Mr. Mayor 3