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01-30-2008 - Special ~ CITY COUNCIL OF EDGEWATER SPECIAL MEETING JANUARY 30, 2008 1:00 P.M. CITY HALL CONFERENCE ROOM MINUTES CALL TO ORDER Mayor Thomas called the Special Meeting to order at 1:00 p.m. in the City Hall Conference Room. ROLL CALL Mayor Michael Thomas Councilwoman Debra Rogers Councilwoman Gigi Bennington Councilwoman Harriet Rhodes Councilman Ted Cooper Acting City Manager Tracey Barlow Interim City Clerk Lisa Bloomer City Attorney Carolyn Ansay MEETING PURPOSE Present Present Present Present Present Present Present Excused The purpose of the meeting was to hold interviews and discuss the position of City Clerk. Tyna Hilton Mayor Thomas informed Ms. Hilton the Council was going to ask her some questions. Councilman Cooper did the introduction. He stated they trying to establish a more relaxed atmosphere. In this part of the interview they are going to ask questions. Everyone is going to get the same questions. There is right or wrong answer. They are an informal group and with a vast variety of life and business experiences. are not evaluating how well they answer the question. is really their personal belief on the job. are no come They It Councilman Cooper started off the interview by asking Ms. Hilton to tell them something that is not on her resume. Our Charter requires that City Clerk reside in the City limits. This wouldn't be a problem for Ms. Hilton because Page I of 48 Council Special Meeting January 30, 2008 she already lives in the City limits. Councilman Cooper asked Ms. Hilton her feeling on the Charter as far as the citizens are concerned. If they were to waive that caveat and extend the job to somebody out of the City limits, he asked what her position is as perspective City Clerk. Ms. Hilton feels that being a resident for many years, a taxpayer, a City employee, that it should be somebody who has a whole heart and soul in the City and lives in the City and deals with the same things they deal with whether it's lowering taxes or raising taxes or lowering garbage bills or raising them they should be affected like everyone else. Councilman Cooper stated it basically brings them closer to the problems at hand. Ms. Hilton stated and would understand and could be more compassionate within the problems because they are having to live with them and deal with them and having to hear from the residents, they would be able to understand where they are coming from. Councilman Cooper confirmed she looked at it as an important issue in the Charter. Ms. Hilton informed him yes. Councilman Cooper then asked Ms. Hilton what the qualities are that are required for a City Clerk and which of those qualifies she possesses? If she were to outline the City Clerk's position as she sees it right now and set priorities on what she sees those areas are and then what she would do with those and what about her would allow her to get that accomplished. Ms. Hilton thought it was a very intense position. It is very community minded and should be very professional. It's the City image. The City Clerk should be what the City wants to portray as their image, a positive and professional image. When you come into the City Clerk's office and you are requesting information or when they are doing voting, all the aspects of the City Clerk should be very professional. She feels she can portray that professionalism and compassion. It needs to be a compassionate position. Being able to understand the concerns and aggravations of the residents. They have to be able to sit in those residents' shoes. They don't have to agree with them all but you do have to be able to sit in their shoes and understand where they are coming from. With 23 years of working with the Public Works Department, she feels that as far as being compassionate and understanding where the residents are coming from, she possesses that quality. Page 2 of 48 Council Special Meeting January 30, 2008 Councilman Cooper asked Ms. Hilton about the timely nature of documentation that is needed as far as the Council is concerned. He asked her feelings on that. Ms. Hilton felt it should be the highest priority. She feels priorities need to be set and work within deadlines. She thinks that currently Lisa does a wonderful job but it is one of the highest priorities. As City Clerk, whoever it may be, they would be working for the Council. Whatever their priorities and goals are are what needs to be met. Councilman Cooper stated as you know this position entails many confidential issues that pertains to the citizens, the Councilmembers, the Mayor and many different Department Heads, including your own City staff. He asked her if she could sketch out two or three key strengths that would assure the Council she would uphold the integrity of the office when speaking to either one of the five listed. He presented an example by explaining he is a citizen that comes in and he has an issue with Mike Thomas and understand he works for a developer. How can this be? Is this legal? Ms. Hilton stated if she does not know and may not know that answer, she is not afraid to ask anybody. That is her biggest thing. If she doesn't know the Council will know and she won't be afraid to tell any of them she doesn't the know answer to that. She will find out the answer. She is a good researcher and can find the answer out. She may know where to find out and she is not afraid to ask. She would not answer unless she was absolutely 100% sure. Councilwoman Bennington asked her how she would pacify the citizen if he wanted an answer. Ms. Hilton stated she would be truthful and tell him she doesn't know. She doesn't sugarcoat it. If she doesn't know anybody is able to know she doesn't know. Will she find the answer out, 100%. She is not afraid to say she doesn't know but for him to give her his name and number and she would get it straightened out and find out for him. Councilman Cooper stated it turns out Mike has a Vice President job with Don Mears of Restorations and he's our Mayor Thomas. Mayor Thomas presented the example of Don Mears giving him permission to hunt out there. Councilman Cooper stated so right away there is some public perception but they don't know all of the truths of it. He wants to get to the bottom of it because he is irate and wants to find out what is going on. How can this guy sit on the Council? Page 3 of 48 Council Special Meeting January 30, 2008 Ms. Hilton stated she would have to find out if it was true. They all know how rumors fly around communities and cities. If confirmed then she would have to research and find out the legalities of what he was doing and if it created a conflict of interest. If it did it would be handled from there. If did not, then the irate resident unfortunately would have to be told it is okay and whether he likes it, we're sorry but it is okay and is within the guidelines of City and that is what they have to work with. The resident may not feel comfortable with it and may have a problem with it but if it fits within the City guidelines then they tell the resident it fits within the city guidelines and they can take it from there. Councilman Cooper stated quite honestly any of the Council would have to recuse themselves when they have to vote on an issue when it pertains to that particular area. She would have to know that but she was right to look for the answer first. Mayor Thomas stated Councilman Cooper brought up a couple of interesting things. He runs the Miami Tract Hunt Club which borders up to Restorations. One of the first things he did was ask the Attorney whether or not he could vote on the issues. That is when the other Attorney with Foley & Lardner said he could. It is hard to recuse yourself from a vote. Councilwoman Bennington stated you have to have a vested money and benefit from it. Mayor Thomas stated he said he could and to him that would be a conflict of interest. He would be giving him favors and he would be owing him favors. Councilwoman Bennington asked Mayor Thomas if he could declare that there may be a possible conflict of interest. Mayor Thomas stated he would think they would try to stay out of it. Mayor Thomas asked Ms. Hilton if she realized with this job she was going to have to work some odd hours for Council meetings and there is going to be some travel involved. He asked her if she was prepared to do this and if it was going to be a problem. Ms. Hilton stated she does understand the odd hours. It doesn't create a problem with her as far as they usually know ahead of time. If not, she can always make accommodations for whatever is needed. She is not against any travel that would be needed for the Page 4 of 48 Council Special Meeting January 30, 2008 position of City Clerk and any other workshops that are needed. She realizes it would be her duty to be there and it does not create a problem for her. Mayor Thomas stated in his workday he sets goals that he wants to accomplish that day. She probably does the same thing. Let's say you are going through your day and one of the Councilmembers came in and said they needed immediate action on something. He asked her what she would do. Ms. Hilton stated she would unfortunately have to reschedule. She has worked many years and you start out with a great list and what happens is things do come in and they have to be able to set the priorities. The five of the Council are all individuals and all have different needs and different goals. She would have to fit within what the goals and needs are of the Council. Mayor Thomas stated what she was telling him was that with her personality that would not stress her out. Ms. Hilton informed him no. Councilwoman Bennington stated what if two of them came in and they both had something to be done right away. Ms. Hilton stated now they are putting the stress on. That is when she would put Lisa on one and she would do the other. Councilwoman Bennington asked her how she would make that decision. Ms. Hilton explained she would have to prioritize by how long the task would take. She would have to look at which one would be needing the longest of your time. Mayor Thomas asked Ms. Hilton how she would characterize her management style. Ms. Hilton stated probably task oriented. She is very list oriented. It feels good to scratch one of the tasks off. She stated task oriented and putting things in priority and making sure those things we all think are the most urgent sometimes aren't and they have to be careful. She has to look at her list once she has made it to make sure it is in the right order. Ms. Hilton commented on thinking she lost her calendar over the Christmas break. A calendar is very vital part of her. Councilman Cooper wanted to expand because he was looking for specifics there. He understands she has a things to do list and you have to in any kind of management position today. When they talk about management styles and management philosophy, there will be two young ladies to Page 5 of 48 Council Special Meeting January 30, 2008 run this department. Indirectly she interacts with everybody in City Hall and everybody in City Hall could be a director, a support group task or General Employee. He asked her when she is managing how she sets those goals on how she deals with that each type of person and how would she prioritize that and what she feels her management philosophy is. Ms. Hilton stated she does think they have to take all of it into consideration because one may be a director and one may be a General Employee. It goes back to priority. You do have to know your boundaries with all. She feels that she gets along with all, whether be it be the City Manager all the way down to the General Employee. She doesn't have a problem dealing with any of them. She doesn't look at if one of the employees were to come in and ask her a problem she wouldn't say no because it was just an employee. Councilman Cooper stated if it was out of the scope of her job description. Ms. Hilton stated she would do her best to still help or guide them in the right direction. Get them where they need to be and help them do what they need to do. She feels the more you teach the more you encourage. Make them feel good about whatever they are doing. Whether it's Council, the City Manager, the girls out front, whoever, they all need the encouragement to know that they are doing a good job. Councilman Cooper confirmed she was saying she was not the dominant type who was going to bark orders at folks and that some of them, like himself, are take charge type people and run with it. Ms. Hilton stated she runs with things but she isn't one of these bulls in a China shop. Councilwoman Rhodes asked Ms. Hilton what sets her apart from the other candidates for this position? Ms. Hilton stated she has 23 years of service here. She loves this City. She has taken a lot of pride over the years. She has accomplished her Bachelors Degree. She has a lot of compassion for the employees, residents, and people in general. She does want to set this department. She would like to have the City be portrayed as very positive. She thinks she can do that. She has done that with the employees at Public Works. She turns situations around. She thinks it would be a good thing to be on a lot more of the positive notes more and more. She feels it is important for people to take pride in the City and join in the discussions rather than always wanting to be harsh. Page 6 of 48 Council Special Meeting January 30, 2008 She thinks that being community minded, she could help change some of that. Councilwoman Rhodes asked her if she was more comfortable working with data or collaborating with other individuals. Ms. Hilton stated that was a tough one. She loves people. She loves to communicate and help people get things accomplished as well as them help her get things accomplished. She also loves to research and to be working on a project and collect all the data and see how it all falls. If she had to choose she would choose to work with people but the other does not scare her. Councilwoman Rhodes asked Ms. Hilton in the overall day-to- day operations of this position, with limited resources, how she saw her role as City Clerk. Ms. Hilton stated as an honor as far as the City goes. The City Clerk does hold the City seal. She thinks that in a lot of ways that has been minimized. She doesn't think it has shined as well as it should. She thinks the department and Council and Mayor should shine and should be positive instead of just a department. It should be community minded and more involved in the community with different volunteer organizations and different community minded organizations that can really do a lot of good. With limited funds, those are usually the ones that can help out the most to get things done. Councilman Cooper stated if he were to throw out five qualifications for a candidate and she were to pick her top three she feels she is, what would be her top three if he said image, task orientated, community eager, enthusiasm, hard worker. Ms. Hilton stated hard worker, community orientated, and task oriented. The toughest part of that was remembering what he said. councilwoman Bennington stated all managers need to evaluate staff. What methodology do you use in the process and how do you perform a corrective action? Ms. Hilton stated as far as the methodology, she wants things done a certain way. She would be evaluating the staff on not just how much they did, but the quality. She doesn't feel anything should come out of the City offices without being the best of quality. Being double and triple Page 7 of 48 Council Special Meeting January 30, 2008 checked to make sure that whatever is coming out is the best they can do. She is probably the most critical on that portion. It would be as far as their compassion for the residents, co-workers and such. Councilwoman Bennington then asked her how she would perform corrective actions. Ms. Hilton stated her first thing is to try and problem solve. She may not know why this particular employee is having a problem. If you know what problem is, sometimes that can solve it all. She wasn't saying always. Councilwoman Bennington stated she has just hired someone to help her at her office. She has a certain way she wants things done. She has showed them to her and let her do them. Then she finds out she is not doing it exactly the way she wants it done. How do you correct that? Ms. Hilton stated she has a baseball theory. Her theory usually is three strikes. We are all human and she can be shown something and maybe she misunderstood. She will go back and maybe it was her communication to the employee. She would re-communicate it so that way she feels she has done her job. We all communicate in different ways and it could be that she miscommunicated. The third strike, she would probably, depending on the procedures, write up or do something like that. She again mentioned possibly not communicating the right way what she wanted done. Councilwoman Rhodes asked her if she had a problem with giving employees the wear with all for independent thinking. Ms. Hilton stated 100%. If she has an employee who will take the bull by the horns, she would be the first one to say she doesn't want them to take the bull out of the pasture until it is ran by her. Councilwoman Rhodes stated you say you have a certain way of doing things. She asked her if she had a problem with her employee saying she does it that way but they may have a better way. She asked her if she would listen to them and evaluate whether that is a better way or not. Ms. Hilton stated she believes that if they don't listen to their co-workers because they are the ones that are actually doing it. She isn't saying her way is the only way. She has a certain way she likes things done. Councilwoman Rhodes informed her she was trying to get at her flexibility. Ms. Hilton stated most definitely. Councilwoman Bennington stated in other words if her employee could show her a better way then she is Page 8 of 48 Council Special Meeting January 30, 2008 willing to accept that. Councilwoman Rhodes stated or why their way is more comfortable for them and doesn't corrupt the final product. Ms. Hilton stated she files totally different than anybody else. She understands everyone of them would file different. They have to adapt to those things. They are the ones dealing with that particular area. There are certain things that have to be done a certain way. She spoke of agenda packets having to be handled in a certain way. If it is A, Band C of how it gets done, as long as C is the final product and it is the same, she is fine with it. Councilwoman Rhodes wanted to see if she was more into micromanaging. Ms. Hilton stated if the final product isn't coming out the way it should from the department, not as much as the process of how it is being done. It is more of she doesn't want to sign anything to her name and she doesn't want anything coming out of her department that doesn't meet the best of quality. Councilman Cooper stated all managers need to evaluate Staff and what methodology. If you have a great employee and something happens and the workload falls off they may institute to do that review earlier to find out what the problem is. She asked her if she would host a meeting with Lisa to find out what the problem might be. Ms. Hilton stated absolutely. Councilman Cooper confirmed she would be a compassionate manager and find out all of her concerns. He asked Ms. Hilton if she would have the management skills to set objectives for Lisa to get out of this problem area. Ms. Hilton stated yes sir, 100%. Councilman Cooper asked her what objectives she would set. Ms. Hilton stated it would depend on what the problem might be. If it was work related they would need to set goals for her to try to eliminate some of the problems. She used interruptions as an example. If she is trying to do minutes and continually getting interrupted. She knows she does well now but if that became a problem for whatever reason, they would need to look at finding a quiet spot for her and her stepping in. Maybe they would be able to find a different way. There has to be way to help her eliminate the stress or the onset. Nine out of 10 times you can talk with the employee if they are receptive. Sometimes you have employees that are not receptive to wanting to tell them what the problem is. If it is a personal problem that is when it gets a little bit rougher. We are all human and all have personal problems. Donna is there if she didn't want to talk to her. Human resources is right next door Page 9 of 48 Council Special Meeting January 30,2008 and very confidential. She thinks they can be worked through. As far as waiting until there is a major problem, once you see someone's work has started to alter, she thinks is the time to nip it rather than wait because then it gets too much for the employee. Then they feel overwhelmed because their work is behind whatever the problem is is escalating. It's best to try to nip it as quick as you can. As a manager you need to be very observant of your employees. You need to know your employees enough to know when their work has altered. Councilman Cooper stated the hard part of that solution is they have a job to do. Regardless of personnel, someone is the boss and the buck stops. He has gone through his review, followed his concerns and set his objectivesj he asked her how tough she was in instilling the solution time frame. Ms. Hilton stated it would depend on what the objectives were and what the problem was. It is a case-by- case problem. Councilwoman Bennington stated in the City Clerk's office one of the jobs is to handle elections. In elections you have candidates, all kinds of candidates. Some make demands. Some of them are nasty and some are nice. Some don't know what they are doing. How do you see the City Clerk handling all this? How would you handle this particular stress factor? Along with the elections you have all your other duties you have to do. Ms. Hilton stated stress is a huge factor of the City Clerk's job. She believes that 100%. She works well under stress. She works well with a lot of people making demands of her. As far as all of them coming in at once, she felt this goes back to priority and letting them know that she understands their needs. Here are some of the things she is going to need for them to do while she gets their needs met. That may be they are going to need to come back in an hour or come back tomorrow, depending on what the circumstance is. We are a staff of two. She feels if they approach it in that way, they are still going to have some that will bite your head off and some that are not going to be happy. They don't want to wait that thirty minutes or come back tomorrow. She feels they have to be firm but be nice, be polite and let them know that even though they feel it is the most important thing at that moment, they are not the only one that has a most important thing at that moment. Page lO of 48 Council Special Meeting January 30, 2008 Councilwoman Bennington stated Susan was very good at handling everybody without anybody knowing how she personally felt about anyone. How do you do that? Councilwoman Rhodes stated keep your mouth shut. Ms. Hilton stated after the last portion of the interview she was talking and said to her the biggest part of being City Clerk is being able to be a good listener and not being involved. What someone is passionate for someone else may not be. She may not be passionate for any of it or she may be for all of it but that's not for her to intertwine. It's for her to meet Council's goals. It was be a good listener. It is a critical part of the City Clerk's job to be a good listener. Councilwoman Bennington asked Ms. Hilton to describe an instance in which she had a significant impact on a situation inside or outside her job. Ms. Hilton commented on negotiating for the employees as far as the contracts go. She has done it a few years and has been the representative and had to sit and negotiate with City Managers, Finance Directors and Union people and still try to understand that the City has a limit and the employees have a limit. She has been able to do that with great success over the past nine years. That is a huge impact she feels for management and the employees. Councilwoman Rogers asked Ms. Hilton when building productive relationships, what she felt was the most important thing. Ms. Hilton stated truthfulness, honesty, loyalty and dedication. Councilwoman Rogers asked how she would go about building that establishment that there is trust and loyalty. Ms. Hilton stated by always being truthful and if called upon or being there. Not sugar coating it. If they are talking about a relationship and being truthful, if she doesn't know she doesn't know but will find out. Being dedicated as far as always there when needed. She thinks that loyalty comes along once the relationship has been built. You know if the other person going to be loyal. Councilwoman Rogers stated on the flip side in building a productive relationship, have you ever attempted to do that and it failed? If it did what did you do that you think was the reason for the failure? Ms. Hilton felt failure would probably come from lack of commitment. When the relationship was not building, it maybe wasn't one that she felt needed to continue on so it didn't prosper and it was probably lack of commitment. Page 11 of 48 Council Special Meeting January 30, 2008 Councilwoman Rogers stated or maybe reading the other person to. She then asked Ms. Hilton how she would go back motivating a group of employees to do something they didn't want to do. Ms. Hilton stated encouraging, boasting, and making the dreaded chores and the dreaded jobs not the dreaded jobs. It's all in the way you approach the employees. If you demand them, usually they aren't wanting to do it as much as if you pitch in and say let's do this. The key word is us. From her own past experience her guys will do just about anything she asks them to do. A lot of it has to do that she has shown them she would be loyal to them. She is not going to ask to do something unless she needs them to. Councilwoman Rogers stated what if you ask something over and over and the person continually puts it off or has excuses. How would you come back at them and say this hasn't been done yet and this really needs to be done. Ms. Hilton stated she would approach it in the fact of why they haven't. Is there a problem? Is it that maybe it's a project that entails collecting data and they don't like data collecting? Is it that this is a project that you have to make a lot of phone calls and don't want to talk on phone. There must be a problem. If this employee does anything else, there must be something about this particular project that is either scaring them or they are dreading. They all have jobs that they keep putting at the bottom of the list because they are dreading having to do that chore. She felt they needed to figure out why they weren't doing it. Most people do want to comply with the wishes of their directors. Councilwoman Rogers stated or sometimes it is just the task they dread period or they are intimidated by. A lot of times someone needs to be told that those things you don't want to do that you know you have to do are the ones you want to tackle first. Ms. Hilton putting at bottom of list. Councilwoman Rogers asked Ms. Hilton how could a supervisor establish communication with staff. What is the number one thing you can do to establish communication? Ms. Hilton stated face- to-face talking. In the communication world of today, the email and the cell phone are great. She thinks that you have to talk one on one, face to face and tell her what is going on and what they need. Tell her the happy things that are going on and what they like about their duties. They have to keep the line of communication open both ways. They need to know what you desire but they also need to know what they desire and what their goals are. They need to have their own goals along with her goals. Councilwoman Rogers liked her response of communicating face to face. Page 12 of 48 Council Special Meeting January 30, 2008 In this world of technologYI you canlt see the personls face or body language and she feels that is key. Ms. Hilton feels you get a better response if you are talking to someone face to face. She feels e-mail is a vital part of our world today but that some things donlt need to be done bye-mail. Councilwoman Bennington stated in the past there has been conflict between the City Manager and the City Clerk's Office. She has heard it was said to various City Managers that she didnlt work for them. She asked Ms. Hilton if that should happen and if she was in that position and had a problem with the City Manager how she would handle that. Ms. Hilton stated she would go face to face and try to solve it between the two of them first. If that didnlt workl she would go to Council and ask for advice. She should be able to solve it herself. In the real world she may not be able to. Councilwoman Bennington stated if he were telling her to do something she felt was inappropriate or illegall would she go to Council. Ms. Hilton stated in a heartbeat. She wants to make sure that whatever she puts her name on is correct and legal. Some of it will be brand new to her. Her philosophy is no question is a dumb question. Councilman Cooper stated Ms. Hilton has been here a long time. He asked her personal feeling about the rumor mill presently affecting the City and what would she do to dispel rumors. Councilwoman Rhodes stated she didnlt like that question and didnlt feel she should have to answer it. Councilman Cooper asked why not. Councilwoman Rhodes stated a rumor mill is just thatl a rumor and it has no basis in fact. Councilman Cooper stated the point is how you handle it is the pointl not the rumor. Mayor Thomas agreed that the rumor mill affects the City. He also didnlt think she should have to answer that. If she could solve that we would be all right. Councilman Cooper stated if each director were on board of the same opinion on how to solve itl it would be solved. Councilwoman Bennington stated itls easy to solve. They just donlt pass it. Councilwoman Rhodes stated you deal with facts, you donlt deal with rumors. Councilman Cooper stated in this positionl she would be interacting with Statel County and elected City officials. What special qualities do you have that would allow such interaction to consummate with integrity and social grace Page 13 of 48 Council Special Meeting January 30,2008 when confronted with a situation. Ms. Hilton stated she currently deals with DEP, EPA, and the County officials so she didn't feel that she would have a problem continuing to do it. Ms. Hilton informed Council she appreciated their time very much and she knew they had a very difficult job to do. As much as they voiced they wouldn't want to be in her shoes, she wouldn't want to be in their shoes either so it does go both ways. Mayor Thomas called a ten-minute recess at this time. The meeting recessed at 1:55 p.m. and reconvened at 2:07 p.m. Councilwoman Bennington informed Councilman Cooper that the notes he was taking had to be public record. Councilman Cooper informed her as they answer, some of the questions are more difficult than others and he had no problem giving them to Lisa. He thinks this is an important position. He doesn't b~lieve he wants to leave it all to memory because he believed everyone of the candidates was very closely matched right now. His biggest concern was Deputy City Clerk Bloomer. Bonnie Wenzel Mayor Thomas informed Ms. Wenzel they would be asking a few questions. Councilman Cooper stated they are an informal group. They come from a vast variety of life and businesses experiences. They are not evaluating how well they string answers together. Councilman Cooper stated our Charter requires that the City Clerk live in the City limits. Ms. Wenzel informed him she does live in the City limits. Councilman Cooper asked how important she saw that provision in the Charter as far as the City Clerk being a resident of Edgewater. Ms. Wenzel believed it was pretty important because Department Heads and most City employees when there are emergencies in the City are required to be here. If you live an hour or two away you might not be able to make it. If you are right here in the City, chances are they are here and don't get to leave but if they do have to come back in there are times when it is important for certain people to be here Page 14 of 48 Council Special Meeting January 30, 2008 quickly to take care of the situation. With that aspect, she felt it was very important. Councilman Cooper asked if she felt it was so important that it should be a consideration that should never be waived. Ms. Wenzel informed him not necessarily never waived no. Councilman Cooper then asked Ms. Wenzel what the qualities are that are required for the City Clerk and which of these qualities she felt she possessed? Ms. Wenzel believed ,the City Clerk should be people oriented. They all have to deal with the public on a daily and they have to know how to handle that. Organization is key. She believed that communication with citizens, Council, Department Heads, and everybody that you come into contact with you have to have very good communication skills. She believes she is a people person. She is very organized. If you look at her office it won't look like it but she knows where everything is. If they ask her for something she can get it very quickly. It's organized chaos. She again stated communication is key and she does her best to communicate clearly with whom she speaks to. It doesn't always happen but she does try. Councilman Cooper commented on Ms. Wenzel stating she is a people person, well organized and a good communicator. Some people are neat freaks with their desk but may not be as efficient. Councilwoman Rhodes felt those were three very good qualities. Councilman Cooper stated this position entails many confidential issues that pertain to citizens, Councilmembers, the Mayor, and many Department Heads including City staff members. He asked her to sketch out two or three key strengths that would assure Council she would uphold the integrity of the office. Ms. Wenzel stated she has had experience in that. There have been things that she has been told that on the Department Head level, when she has gone to staff meetings, that were not to be repeated at that point. She does pride herself. If there is something that is not supposed to go any further than her, it doesn't go any further than her. She looks for that in other people. If she were to tell someone something that was not to go any further, she doesn't expect anything less of herself or other people. Mayor Thomas asked Ms. Wenzel if she realized the position calls for some odd hours. She has been to the Council Page 15 of 48 Council Special Meeting January 30, 2008 meetings and she realized sometime they last longer than expected as well as some travel. He asked Ms. Wenzel if she could handle these and if it would be any problem for her. Ms. Wenzel informed him she didn't believe it would be a problem for her. She has a child and a very good family support system. She does the Planning & Zoning Board meetings and it has never been an issue. She doesn't foresee it becoming one. Mayor Thomas stated he is an organized person and he has a set of goals that he wants to accomplish each day. He makes . -- a list that he carries with him. Councilwoman Rhodes stated she would lose the list. Mayor Thomas stated let's say one of the Councilmembers comes in and said they need immediate action on something. She already has her priorities set of what she wants to accomplish that day. What if he comes in and one of the Councilmembers come in and they both have things they feel are important. He asked her how she would handle that. Ms. Wenzel stated she deals with that often. So often she comes into work with what she is going to do and nothing happens because other fires appear. They constantly have to reprioritize. That is key but there is also staff that if she has to be doing two things at once, she could also get help. Sometimes she can't which she realizes is something she would have to do. She would have to go back and talk to each of the Councilmembers and inform them of the situation and ask them if there was any leeway.. If there is, she would take care of the one first. If they both have to be done at the same time, hopefully it would be something Lisa would be able to help with and they could get it done together in time that everybody needed it. Mayor Thomas asked Ms. Wenzel how she would categorize her management style. She informed Mayor Thomas that was kind of hard to answer because she is not a manager. She could tell them what she hoped it would be and the type of manager she has seen that she looks up to. That is someone who is willing to give guidance when you need it. They all don't know everything and also take on some of the work if someone is overloaded and something needs to get done, she believes the manager should be able to step in and help out. She believes if someone is doing something wrong, that they should be told. That is what she looks for for her. If she is doing something not quite right tell her because she can't fix it if they don't let her know she has been doing it wrong. She would also want to do that. She Page 16 of 48 Council Special Meeting January 30, 2008 feels a good manager would have to be cooperative with their employees and understanding. Things happen. If an employee has a situation, you have to be able to let them take care of it and continue the job. You can't just let it sit. The Manager would have to step in and make sure the work gets done if it is someone else's job. Councilman Cooper made up a philosophy. As a Manager, Lisa is your only employee. He believes no employee comes to work or takes a job to do a lousy job or be a bad employee. He truly believes lousy management makes for bad employees. She is coming into an office that is specialized and there are not a lot of employees. If she were to take that philosophy, how would she make something like that fit in the City Clerks job where she is going to talk to everybody, citizens, State officials, Ann McFall's office and people calling in from allover the place, the Council, how you would instill that philosophy. Ms. Wenzel stated she would try to do everything she just described to make sure she was not a lousy manager. She would never want to become a person who becomes a supervisor and a tyrant. Councilwoman Bennington stated sort of like we had here. Ms. Wenzel stated she was not going to comment on that. She would want someone to pull her back and ask her who she is becoming. She doesn't want to be that type of person. She doesn't want to be someone that says they are the boss and they have to do everything she says they have to do, someone that constantly tells you what to do and how to do it but does nothing. Councilwoman Rhodes asked Ms. Wenzel what sets her apart from the other people they are interviewing. Ms. Wenzel stated she is an extremely hard worker and will help anyone in anyway as long as she can. If she is capable of helping that person, and has the time and a boss that allows her to help that person she is very dedicated. She is here every day. She believed she was very dedicated. Councilwoman Rhodes stated she has heard that about her so she knows she is telling the truth. Councilwoman Bennington mentioned her never being in management and therefore not having any bad habits. Councilwoman Rhodes asked Ms. Wenzel if she was more comfortable working with data or collaborating with others. Ms. Wenzel stated a little bit of both. Data is great. She thinks it is more helpful to collaborate with others. Page 17 of 48 Council Special Meeting January 30,2008 You can sometimes go in with this is how I think something is supposed to be done but after talking to other people you do find that there might be a better way or the way it was working is the right way to go and it's not worth changing. It's good to get different opinions and ideas from people because everybody has different experiences, background, education, and ideas and may have dealt with a similar situation. Councilwoman Rhodes asked Ms. Wenzel if she would rather sit in an office with information and process the information or would she rather deal with people? Ms. Wenzel informer her she would rather deal with people. Councilwoman Rhodes stated in the overall day-to-day operations of this position, with limited resources, how do you see your role as City Clerk? Ms. Wenzel stated hopefully being able to find more resources whether it be at this point because she has not been a City Clerk before, she would hope that other City Clerks in the area would be able to help her out. She would be able to utilize their knowledge and the knowledge of other people within the City to get what needs to be done, done in a timely manner. Sometimes without the resources, you just have to find another way to do it and get it done with whatever you have to work with. Councilwoman Bennington stated all managers need to evaluate their staff. She asked Ms. Wenzel what methodology she would use in the process and how would she perform correction actions. Ms. Wenzel stated they have a form so she would utilize that. She mentioned having to do one on herself before and it being easier to fill one out on someone else other than yourself. She would start with the form and she felt they would have to expand on that depending on the position the person works in. That is not an end all. Councilwoman Bennington suggested they talk about having to deal with Lisa. Ms. Wenzel stated based on not knowing how she works right now because she has worked with her so often, she would have to look at how she and I interact with each other. She would be asking her to do things for her and delegating work to her, how she responds to that, how she responds to her, and how the work gets done. She thinks attitude is a big part of an employee on a day-to- day basis, attitude with the public, employees, and Page 18 of 48 Council Special Meeting January 30, 2008 herself. She thinks they would have to look at how often they are here, how often they call in sick and leave early and all of those things would have to be taken into consideration. If they are not here the work is not getting done or it is falling back to someone else or herself. Councilwoman Bennington stated if she found her lacking in area that needs to be corrected, how would you go about correcting it. Ms. Wenzel stated she would go about that the way she wants people to go about that for her. If there is something that needs to be corrected they would sit down and talk about it. Maybe there is a reason why it is not being done correctly that she wasn't aware of. There are instances where they find daily that they are getting information from people that is not correct and than that will cause a problem with what she may be doing. She would find out what the problem is and why it is not being done correctly and discuss it and try and find a way to fix it. She didn't believe in going in and telling someone they have done it wrong and they have to do this way because she said so. That has happened to her before and it's not good. Councilwoman Bennington stated one of the main jobs of the City Clerk is to deal with elections. How would you deal with all of the different personalities of all of the candidates coming in or want to be candidates coming in and putting all this added work on top of her every day and still maintain integrity. Ms. Wenzel believes you have to have a good attitude and know if they are coming in screaming because something wasn't right or if they missed a deadline, which happens, you have to take it where it comes from and not let it get you down. You have to deal with them in a civilized manner and fix the situation and not dwell on it. If they leave , if they have been mad or are wanting eighty five million things from you and they leave and you still have other things to do, if you let it get to you nothing is going to get done. Councilwoman Bennington commented on Ms. Wenzel dealing with seven members from the Planning & Zoning Board. Councilwoman Bennington asked Ms. Wenzel to describe an instance in which she has had a significant impact on a situation inside or outside her job. It doesn't necessarily have to be a good impact. Ms. Wenzel asked if she could think about it for a second. Councilman Cooper Page 19 of 48 Council Special Meeting January 30, 2008 stated and it doesn't have to be about the job. Ms. Wenzel stated she never thought about that before. Councilwoman Rhodes told her to take her time. She mentioned Ms. Wenzel's child. Ms. Wenzel told her that was what she was thinking about was her child. She hoped she has had a significant impact on him. She believed she has. A lot of what they do is Boy Scouts, which was something she hadn't planned on getting involved with originally. She planned on being one of those parents that dropped off their kids, sat in the back and let them do their thing. They started out with pack that was a disaster. Nobody was in charge. The boys did not get to do their fundraisers because nobody knew how to get stuff. A friend of hers took over the pack and she kind of got sucked into it. They ended up putting the pack together. The difference in it has been amazing for all of the children. when they first started they didn't get to do their Pinewood Derby. They did a Rain Gutter Regatta, which didn't turn out the way they planned. All of their fund raisers, and the Blue & Gold, which is a big celebration. They didn't get to do any of that stuff for years. They had their den meetings and that was it. They brought it together and got much more involved then she originally planned. She ended up being the Advancement Coordinator going to the round table meetings with the Boy Scout Counsel and getting all that information and putting it together for all of the children. The last two years they have had great years. They have done a lot of fun stuff and have made a lot of money with their fundraisers to where the parents don't have to pay for anything if they actually get involved in the fundraiser. You always have some that don't want to do it. Councilwoman Bennington stated she didn't know anything about that. Mayor Thomas stated he was a Cub Scout and Boy Scout. He asked Ms. Wenzel how she found all of that stuff out. Ms. Wenzel informed him the Internet. They started looking on the Internet and finding out all of the things the children were missing out on. They found about the round table meetings that Counsel puts on every month that is actually for the leaders. They started going to those and getting the popcorn and the candy bars. They even came up with some of their own fundraisers. Councilwoman Bennington felt that showed a lot of initiative. Mayor Thomas asked if he was still in Cub Scouts. Ms. Wenzel informed him yes. Councilwoman Rhodes stated her mother was a den mother and it's not easy. Ms. Wenzel Page 20 of 48 Council Special Meeting January 30, 2008 stated it is a lot of work. They didn't plan on it but it just evolved. Mayor Thomas stated it sounded like they did well because that is really a male thing. Ms. Wenzel stated their pack is all mothers. Councilwoman Rogers stated she was a Brownie leader for two years and she was very busy. Ms. Wenzel stated there is a lot to it to give them the full benefit of what they can do. Councilwoman Rhodes felt it was great that she stepped up like that. Councilwoman Rogers stated it is tough having the mom going into the little boy's world. It was much easier for her getting into doing things with the girls. Councilwoman Rogers asked Ms. Wenzel in building productive relationships what she would think is one of the most effective things she can do to build a productive relationship. Ms. Wenzel stated communication. You have to communicate with whomever you are trying to build a relationship with. Councilwoman Rogers asked if she has ever attempted to build a productive relationship and it failed. If so, what does she think she did to have it fail or maybe something she didn't do. Ms. Wenzel stated she didn't think she had ever had that happen. She tries to be very open to other people's feelings and their insights depending on the situation. She feels you can learn a lot from everybody and she tries to stay open to that. Councilwoman Rogers stated then she has been very fortunate then in work place as far as working. When you go out to work you always want to build a productive relationship with the people you are working with. She questioned her never having any negative coming back. Ms. Wenzel stated she has been very fortunate that everywhere she has worked she has gotten along with everyone. Not to say she wants to be best friends with everyone but she has always been able to get along well. She thinks it is very important that even if you may not want to be that person's best friend, when you are in a work situation with them you put that aside and have to act appropriately and professionally. Mayor Thomas stated he felt trust was a very important thing in a relationship. He asked Ms. Wenzel how she would build trust with him. Ms. Wenzel stated the way she would with anybody that what I say is what I mean. If she told him she would do something she would do it. If she was told something that was to go no further, it's not going to Page 21 of 48 Council Special Meeting January 30, 2008 go any further. She is a true person. She is true to the people that she is around. She would expect that from others also. Mayor Thomas stated on dealing with peoplet do you trust everybody or do you have to take some time before you trust that person? Ms. Wenzel stated she typically would have to take some time. You always like to believe everybody is trust worthy but unfortunately they are not. She believed you have to earn trust and that is based on your actions. Councilwoman Bennington stated so if she had a citizen come in and start telling her something and she didntt really know themt and they came in to make a public record request, in the process they started telling her thingst would she take it with a grain of salt or would she tell anybody else what they have said or would she try to check out what they said or would she just say thank you. Ms. Wenzel stated depending on what they were saying. If it was something that needed to be looked into, she absolutely would look into it to see if it was something that needed to be addressed or if it was just somebody that got mad on their way over and didntt like their neighbor just because they didntt like them and was complaining about them. She felt it would depend on the situation on what it required. If it required for her to keep it to herselft then that is what would have to happen. If it was a situation that needed to be looked into and even if she had tOt sometimes you have to look into things without people really knowing what you were doingt you would have to do that. She felt it would depend on the situation and what was said on how it would be handled. Mayor Thomas presented her an example. He likes to hunt and Restorations is part of the City of Edgewater. Letts say someone came in and said Mr. Mears is letting Mayor Thomas hunt out theret which he felt would be against the ethics. What would she do about that? Ms. Wenzel stated she would look into whether he could hunt there or not. Itts private property. She would have to look into whether within the city limits someone could hunt on the property or not. She would also have to look into the ramifications of if it got out that they were letting him or someone hunt out theret the ramifications of what would come out of that with the way people talk about things on how that was dealt with. If someone was breaking the law and that was pointed out to hert she couldntt turn a blind eye to that. Page 22 of 48 . Council Special Meeting January 30, 2008 Mayor Thomas asked Ms. Wenzel how she would handle it if it was true. He would think it would be an ethics violation that he has given him something and it would turn out he probably would vote in his favor on something. Ms. Wenzel stated if it was him being the Mayor and being her boss, she couldn't go to him and ask him what to do about that. That would be a little bit awkward. Councilman Cooper stated her concerns seem to rely on the categories of perception. She would have the right to ask Mayor Thomas about that. Ms. Wenzel stated and she would have to but it would be awkward. Councilwoman Bennington stated suppose someone came in and told her they heard this and she asked him and he was doing it and Mayor Thomas says no and then she finds out he actually was doing it. Mayor Thomas stated it wouldn't be a trustful relationship. Ms. Wenzel stated unfortunately things like that will happen. She can't put him on a lie detector to find out if it's true. Councilwoman Bennington stated she would just take his word for it as the Mayor. Ms. Wenzel stated trusting him as someone she knows better than a person that came in off the street that she has no idea who they are, whether it would be any of them. Councilwoman Bennington stated that's loyalty. Councilman Cooper stated but you have investigated it enough to collectively find out the real information and then even if the Mayor was lying to her she would hold that in her little box of bags and know that it was there. Councilwoman Rhodes asked Ms. Wenzel what she would do if she knew the Mayor was lying to her. Ms. Wenzel stated if he was lying to her about something that was unethical and illegal, for her own conscience she would have to say something. Councilwoman Rhodes asked her who she would say something to. Ms. Wenzel stated she didn't know who that would be. She didn't know if it would have to go to the other Councilpeople or the Police Chief. She was not sure how but she would consciously herself not be able to know something like that was happening that she knew about and not do anything. Councilwoman Rhodes stated first she would talk to the Mayor and if she knew he was lying to her she would go to the City Manager. Mayor Thomas informed her he wouldn't lie to her. Page 23 of 48 Council Special Meeting January 30, 2008 Councilwoman Rogers asked Ms. Wenzel if she wanted to motivate Lisa to do something that she didn't want to do, how would you motivate her. Ms. Wenzel stated she would find out what her favorite snack is. It would depend on what it was. She would try and find a way to not necessarily make it easier for her to be able to do that specific thing but at least make it not seem as horrible and help her with it if she needs to do make it a little bit easier and let her know it won't be as bad as she thinks. Councilwoman Rogers stated what if you told her to do it and she procrastinated and a week later she finds out it is still not done and it needs to be done. How would she get her motivated so she would do it? Ms. Wenzel stated she try not to let it go that far without knowing it wasn't done. She would not let it get to the last minute. She would periodically see how it was going. If she is not really wanting to do something, she would first explain why it needed to be done for whomever it needed to be done for and not necessarily what the consequences are if it is not done, not to say the consequences to her but the consequences to whatever the project may be not getting done and maybe look at it to see how it could be done a little bit differently to make it easier where she wouldn't mind doing it may certainly help to get it done. Councilwoman Rogers stated the suggestion she gave to the previous candidate is to explain it is something that has to be done. If you don't like it the best thing to do is the sooner it is over, then you do not have to think about it. Councilwoman Rhodes and Mayor Thomas always do the things they don't like first. Councilwoman Rogers stated yeah and get it done. Councilwoman Rogers asked how a supervisor could establish effective communication with staff. Ms. Wenzel stated always being open and when something needs to be presented to them that it is done right away and talking to them all the time. Even if it's not always about what has to be done or what the job is. Just always being there if they need her. That they be there when she needs them and just always being there and making sure they know. Councilwoman Bennington stated keeping the lines of communication open. Councilwoman Rogers asked if they had a procedures manual for the City Clerk and Deputy City Clerk. There might be Page 24 of 48 Council Special Meeting January 30, 2008 something they don/t do every day that they have to go back and do and to be consistentl it/s good to be able to go back to see how something was done. Personnel Director Looney mentioned the operating procedures manuals that are in each department. Acting City Manager Barlow wasn/t sure how up to date they are. Councilwoman Rogers felt it would be good to look at. Ms. Wenzel stated in the Planning Department she does have books on the process for the Comp Plan Amendment. They have specific guidelines they have to follow. She actually did for herself make a manual specifically for that. In the beginning it was so she knew what to do. They did not do them very often. Councilwoman Rogers stated one of her clients there is more than one way to tackle something. When you are dealing with accounting and numbers I you want to be consistent. If they don/t do it all the time nobody is sure how to do it there is a procedure. If they come up with a better procedure then change it and put a date at the bottom and then file the other one behind it so if there is ever a reason to go back and look for something. It could be in the way the minutes are being done. She hopes the next City Clerk comes in and tackles that. That is an area of concern for everyone. They are not saying it has not been done correctly. They are just saying there might be a better way to do it. Ms. Wenzel stated she always tries to do those especially with things they don/t do often. Ms. Wenzel stated if she does get the City Clerk positionl that book will be there for the next person and they will be able to make surel specifically on this case that the Comp Plan Amendment gets out. Councilwoman Rogers stated when it comes time again for new candidates wanting to run for office there should be a procedure because there is a book she is going to give to the candidates and various thing she will do in the interim and reminding them about financi~l reports. Something she thinks is unique. She doesn/t receive e-mail at home from the City. She has it come here and it is printed out and put in her box. If there is something that is of great importance I Susan would call her or shoot her an e-mail. She thinks that is important because some of them only check their boxes once a week and if there is something date driven then it is important. Councilwoman Bennington stated in past there has been some friction between City Managers and the City Clerk. If she had a problem with the City Managerl how would you handle it? Ms. Wenzel stated she would try to talk to the City Manager first and see if they couldn/t fix the situation. Page 25 of 48 Council Special Meeting January 30, 2008 Try to figure out why there is a problem. Councilwoman Bennington asked Ms. Wenzel if she would ever tell him it's not her job and he's not her boss. Councilman Cooper stated suppose she couldn't fix it. Councilwoman Rhodes stated what if he or she was not amenable. Ms. Wenzel stated she would have to look at how much of a problem it was. Councilwoman Rhodes stated what if he is just being arbitrary and wanting her to do something she feels like is not her job and he or she is not going to give an inch on it. Ms. Wenzel stated if it was something she felt she should not be doing, then she would need to speak with Council on that because they are her boss. Councilman Cooper stated coming up, let's say she got the job. She is going to be looking at the vote. Ann McFall wants to put all the elections on even years. She is going to have to deal with an issue whether a person loses a year or gains a year, how they are going to get that out to the public and how that can be perceived. The Charter Review Committee has to be put together again. She has policy and procedures manuals that have to be looked at and she has to organize the department so the two of you can work at a much higher efficiency level. That is an over whelming task. When things overwhelm her like that he asked how she deals with it. Ms. Wenzel stated she kind of thrives on that. She would much rather have all of those things to get done with deadlines then the idle. She finds she does better under that type of pressure. If she gets a whole bunch of stuff dumped on her desk that has to be taken care of, the first thing she would do is look at when does everything have to be done. That way she can then prioritize what has to be done by when, figure out how long each thing is going to take, because everyone of then will have different time frames that it is actually going to take them to accomplish. That would be her starting point, to figure out when everything has to be done, how long it is going to take. You have to do one thing at a time even though all day long you may be working on each of those things. Even if you just take 15 minutes to take care of something you would then move on to the next one. Councilman Cooper stated so it wouldn't scare you. It would be something she enjoys working under pressure and she feels it is a challenge. Ms. Wenzel stated she didn't know why but she does. Mayor Thomas thanked Ms. Wenzel. Councilwoman Rhodes thanked her and informed her she did a good job. Whether Page 26 of 48 Council Special Meeting January 30, 2008 she gets the job or not, she wanted her to know she did an exceptional job in representing herself. Mayor Thomas called a ten-minute recess at this time. The meeting recessed at 2:50 p.m. and reconvened at 3:03 p.m. Robin Matusick Mayor Thomas informed Ms. Matusick this was going to be very informal. The Council was each going to ask her two or three questions and they would start off with Councilman Cooper. Councilman Cooper stated they are informal group. They come from a vast variety of life and business experiences. They are not evaluating them on how well they can string answers together. Councilman Cooper stated our Charter has a requirement that the City Clerk must live within the City limits. Ms. Matusick was the only candidate that lives outside of the City limits. She also has a unique situation and he understood why she could not move. The City doesn't want her horses. If Council were to entertain waiving that requirement in the Charter for her, does she feel it is proper and if so, why? Ms. Matusick stated she would hope they would waive it because they felt she was the best applicant for the position. She has large animals. Edgewater does not have any agriculture area. Even her residential animals exceed the number allowed by the City codes. Councilman Cooper asked Ms. Matusick what qualities are required for a City Clerk and which of these qualities she felt she possessed? Ms. Matusick stated qualities. Councilman Cooper stated that is the way they worded it. Take the City Clerk's job instead of taking it as things you have to do within the job. The qualities of this job that he looked at were loyalty, integrity, dealing with the outside concerns, dealing with State officials. As a Paralegal she has experience doing that. If she were to look at those qualities of what this position and the image should uphold, what would she bring to it. Ms. Matusick stated loyalty and integrity should be with any job. She feels Page 27 of 48 Council Special Meeting January 30, 2008 she brings all of the qualities Councilman Cooper mentioned. She does interact with different officials and municipal entities. She has always used extreme professionalism and she has never had any situation arose from any actions that were taken. Councilman Cooper stated this position entails many confidential issues and pertains to citizens, Councilmembers, the Mayor, Department Heads, including City staff. He asked her to sketch out two or three strengths that would assure Council she would uphold the integrity of this office. Ms. Matusick stated she believes in extreme confidentiality in all situations. Some things that aren't necessarily confidential, she considers confidential. What usually goes on in her office stays in her office. If action needs to be taken, it's taken with the appropriate party. Mayor Thomas stated knowing that the job requires working odd hours, late hours, and some travel. He asked her if she had any problem with that. Ms. Matusick informed him no. She attended City Council meetings before Council decided they wanted the City Attorney back. Her daughter is old enough to take care of herself and doesn't live with her. Mayor Thomas asked Ms. Matusick if she was selected as City Clerk, she is going to have to prioritize things. He makes a list of goals he wants to accomplish that day. He was sure she probably did the same thing. He presented an example of if he came in and she was working on her goals for that day, and he comes in and tells her he needs something immediately. Better yet, let's say Councilwoman Bennington comes in right after him and says she needs something done now. He asked her how she would handle that. Ms. Matusick stated it would depend on what was needed. It would have to be put in order. If she felt one was more important than the other, she would ask them to wait a few minutes or she would get back to them that afternoon. They would both be done in the shortest possible ti~e frame. It would just depend on the amount of the priority: Councilman Cooper confirmed she would prioritize the list. Ms. Matusick stated it is a continual ongoing basis when you do something like that. She does tasks each day and things to do lists with reminders and she is constantly adjusting depending on what comes up at the last minute. Councilman Cooper stated the Mayor's task Page 28 of 48 Council Special Meeting January 30, 2008 is more important and Councilwoman Bennington's is more demanding. How do you handle it? Ms. Matusick stated reason with either one you need to. Councilwoman Rhodes stated she would hope no Councilmember would add, if they didn't absolutely have to, to the stress of an employee. Ms. Matusick stated any time she has worked with anybody everybody has been extremely reasonable. Mayor Thomas asked Ms. Matusick how she would categorize her management style and what she would do to instill trust in each one of them. Ms. Matusick stated she would hope she would already have that. She would continue to act as she does. Always loyal and always willing to do anything extra that is needed. She doesn't watch a clock. She would hope that everyone would continue to respect her. Councilwoman Rhodes asked Ms. Matusick what sets her apart from other the candidates for this position. Ms. Matusick stated that was hard. She felt everybody was very good. All City employees are good. She feels she has a little boost because she already does the meeting notices and Council agenda packages. She has extra knowledge there that some of them don't have. She feels a lot of the stuff the City Clerk's office is intertwined with the City Manager and City Attorney's office, that helps a lot there too which different lien issues and so on and so forth. Councilwoman Rhodes asked Ms. Matusick if she was more comfortable working with data or collaborating with other people. Ms. Matusick stated it doesn't make. a difference. She would prefer individualized with people. Councilwoman Rhodes asked Ms. Matusick in the overall day- to-day operations of this position with limited resources, how she saw her role as City Clerk? Ms. Matusick stated she would have to see what budget is. She didn't have an idea what budget is there. Limited resources. The way it works with the majority around here is you all pitch in and do whatever you need to do regardless of the situation. If there are no funds available, there are no funds available. You just pick up an extra chore, whatever comes up that needs to be done. Councilwoman Bennington stated all managers need to evaluate their staff; in this case it is Lisa. She asked Page 29 of 48 Council Special Meeting January 30, 2008 Ms. Matusick what methodology she would use in the process and how she would perform corrective actions if she found her to be lacking in something? Ms. Matusick stated she doesn't see that happening. Councilwoman Bennington asked her how she would evaluate her first. Ms. Matusick felt in any situation you are always evaluating any process that is going on. If they are in the middle of a project and something needs to be corrected, you would address it at that time. She would discuss it with whomever she needed to discuss it with. If they needed additional help she would step in and do whatever is necessary. If it falls on death ears then it would be a different situation. Maybe additional counseling to get everybody back on board. Councilwoman Bennington stated the City Clerk's position has a lot to do with elections. On top of everything else you are dealing with, during elections you have to deal with all the different candidates and personalities and all the demands. How would you perceive that to be in addition to your regular job? It's an added stress. Ms. Matusick stated it would be part of it. Councilwoman Bennington asked her how she deals with the different personalities of the candidates. They have some that don't know what they are supposed to be doing when they come in and some that tell her what she should be doing. Ms. Matusick stated she would make sure they are doing what they should be doing and what is required of each candidates. If 'they are more knowledgeable she would have to make sure she got her point across in the best manner possible. If they still question her authority or opinion, there is no problem with calling the Eleotions Department to clarify the situation. Councilwoman Bennington asked Ms. Matusick if she felt she could keep neutral with the different personalities. This was one of Susan's strongest points. She has never seen her show favoritism to anyone no matter how obnoxious they are. Ms. Matusick stated they have to do that now when people call in on complaints. By the time she or Acting City Manager Barlow get them back in their offices, they have probably been through everyone and by the time they get to them they are not happy individuals. Councilwoman Bennington asked Ms. Matusick to describe an instance in which she has had a significant impact on a situation, inside or outside the job. It doesn't have to be a good impact. Ms. Matusick stated before the City wasn't very good at collecting outside debts that were owed to the City. They put together and accomplished the lien Page 30 of 48 Council Special Meeting January 30, 2008 process so they have avenues to collect on different types of outstanding debts. She feels that was a major accomplishment for them to do. With the help of Tim, they even got the lien database online and on the system so everybody can track into it. Councilwoman Bennington asked what her input was in this whole process. Ms. Matusick stated she got all the lien situations going, figured out who owed what, inputted all the different types of liens and got the ordinances together to go forward with them. Councilwoman Rogers stated based upon your experience how do you find the best thing you can do to build a productive relationship? Ms. Matusick stated in that position, she would think that as long as you work with everyone and try to help everyone and prioritize what they have and what needs to be done in a timely manner, she thinks they can get it done. She feels everybody would work well together to get it done. Councilwoman Rogers stated in her experience of working to build a productive relationship, has she ever experienced where it has failed and if so what she though was the problem for the failure. Ms. Matusick stated lack of communication. That is when you get whoever is involved back together and find out what you can do to get it back on track. Councilwoman Rogers stated if Lisa was to do something or she assigned a task to Lisa and it was something she didn't want to do and it had to be done, how would she motivate her. Ms. Matusick stated she ask for her help and the way Lisa is she is always going to be right there to help out. Councilwoman Bennington stated what if she had something she dreaded doing. Ms. Matusick stated if an employee absolutely refused to do it no matter how you tried to convince them, she would offer by example. You have a project you don't want to do. I'll swap with you. She can do the same thing. If she doesn't like it, she will take on yours and you can do this one over here and that way to her it is making an extra step. You are showing that employee you are willing to take on exactly what they are having to do. Councilwoman Rogers stated what she mentioned to the other two candidates was that when there is something that you have been assigned to do and you don't want to do it, sometimes you need to realize it has got to be done by you and the best thing to do is just do it. The one thing you Page 31 of 48 Council Special Meeting January 30, 2008 don't want to do, do it and get it over with and then it's not hanging over you. Councilwoman Rogers asked Ms. Matusick how can a supervisor establish effective communication with the staff. Ms. Matusick felt they needed to be as open as possible with staff. All staff needs to know what is the priority list, what needs to be accomplished and who will be accomplishing what. The time frame it needs to be done in and make sure you get together and keep the line of communication open and get it all accomplished. Councilwoman Rogers stated she mentioned before about the procedures manual. She understands it is very outdated. She asked Ms. Matusick how she felt about procedures manuals. Does she think it would help in the City Clerk's position? Ms. Matusick stated yes. There is one procedure out there that is not consistent citywide and that is public record requests. That would be one of her goals after she got in and prioritized whatever else was hanging out there. Everyone does their own public records procedure. It is just not consistent. They should all be through the City Clerk's office. Even if one department does it in a little different way, the City Clerk is still the keeper of the record and they should know who has applied or obtained a public record to try to make it more consistent. Councilwoman Rogers agreed. Councilwoman Bennington stated she thought all public record requests had to go through the City Clerk's office. Ms. Matusick stated they are supposed to but they found out recently that they all don't. She made mention of someone coming into the Police Department to request a report but this not being classified or logged in as a public record request. Councilwoman Bennington stated at the Police Department they have always done it that way as far as she knows. She confirmed Ms. Matusick was saying that any public record request that is made in any department at the very least the City Clerk's office should be notified of it. Ms. Matusick stated even if they kept a log. She hasn't really looked at it. They just through some recent stuff found out everyone is not consistent. Councilwoman Bennington stated the City Clerk and City Manager's office are two separate departments. If she as City Clerk had a problem with the City Manager, how would she handle it? Ms. Matusick stated she try and work it out Page 32 of 48 Council Special Meeting January 30, 2008 with the City Manager one on one. Councilwoman Bennington stated what if it couldn't be worked out. Ms. Matusick stated if it couldn't be worked out and she felt she had utilized every means possible to work out, if it's personal it's one thing. If it is professional it is another. If it is professional then she would have to inform her bosses, the Council. Councilwoman Bennington questioned her letting a personal issue go. Ms. Matusick stated she was saying that is different. A personal issue would be between the City Manager and City Clerk. Councilman Cooper felt Ms. Matusick was a difficult person for placing in this position because he feels she is a priority person in where she is right now. If this position were not made for her, would she also be amenable to where Council may instruct City management to make a position more of an administrative assistant in the City Manager form of government. He asked if she would be amenable to that and if so which she would prefer. Ms. Matusick stated she would always be interested in any offer of the City. She loves working for the City. She felt it was hard to say. It would depend on what the offer would be. How can you decide? Councilman Cooper stated it was a concern he has. Ms. Matusick stated without knowing what the offer might be it would be hard to make a determination. Yeah, if they make it the same pay range and she would not receive the offer of the City Clerk position, sure. She would still be willing to go forward back in City Manager/City Attorney's office. Councilman Cooper stated if they were equal and both on the table today, where would she lean. Ms. Matusick asked Acting City Manager Barlow where he would want her. Ms. Matusick stated it depends. Councilwoman Bennington felt that question wasn't fair. Mayor Thomas and Councilwoman Rhodes weren't sure that that was a fair question. The City Manager makes that decision. Councilman Cooper stated this job is going to enter 'into a slew of difficulty. Ann McFall's office wants the votes on even years and this has to be accomplished as soon as possible. They have already lost two quarters. The Charter Review has to be done. The policy and procedure manual is 18 years old. Just to organize the department Page 33 of 48 Council Special Meeting January 30, 2008 and get in a proper structure and flowing better, that has to be looked upon. All of that is objectives and priorities that have to be set. Taking all that into consideration how would you deal with that? Ms. Matusick stated get them accomplished. Councilman Cooper asked how. Ms. Matusick stated spend the amount of time you need to spend if you are the director to get the job done, whether it's staying here late, coming in early, or taking work home. Councilwoman Rhodes stated like Nike, just do it. Mayor Thomas thanked Ms. Matusick. Ms. Matusick thanked the Council for the opportunity. Mayor Thomas commented on when he comes down to City Hall and the City Manager is in a meeting he goes to Ms. Matusick. She knows the answer or gets the answer. She is very intelligent and he thought she could do a really good job there. She has one problem. She won't move and that is in our Charter. He thought she would be a very good asset as an Assistant City Manager or whatever. Councilwoman Bennington stated or an Assistant to the City Manager. Councilman Cooper commented on getting the benefit of the Paralegal experience. Mayor Thomas commented on having to give her a raise to do that. He thinks they would be saving money if they chose one of the other two applicants. Councilman Cooper stated where he is in a quandary over this is they only have one job to give right now. When he brought the question up a long time ago, it shouldn't be something that they exclude her from the position unless as a group they know they are going to instruct the City Manager that they really need an assistant. Councilwoman Bennington thinks the number one issue should be do they want to waive that issue with the Charter. That is their most important issue. Councilwoman Rhodes agreed. Councilwoman Bennington stated if they agree as a whole they are not willing to waive that. Councilwoman Rhodes stated that takes Ms. Matusick off table. She talked to Ms. Matusick about this. She wrestled with this. She also talked this over with her husband this morning. She got out the oath where they swore to uphold the Charter of this City. She has a real problem with the Charter and she has not been able to find her way around it. Councilwoman Bennington stated she talked to Ms. Matusick too when she originally applied. She told her that her biggest problem was that she doesn't Page 34 of 48 Council Special Meeting January 30, 2008 live in the City. For whatever reasons, she is not willing to move into the City. She informed her that is the number one reason she wouldn't vote for her. The other issue she has is she thinks she is too valuable where she is now. Councilwoman Rhodes agreed but didn't think that should be their concern. She is applying for this position and she ought to be considered for this position. Maybe those other people are very valuable in their positions but they don't deal with them enough to know how valuable they are. Councilwoman Rhodes felt they needed to look at it on the base if she wants this job. They have to decide if they are going to waive that requirement or not. Councilwoman Rogers felt it wouldn't be economically feasible to ask anybody to move into the City for a job. After reviewing the Charter and realizing the possibility of waiving that would only come into possibility in their minds if there wasn't anyone qualified. They have three people that are qualified and two are residents. They know that can't be. She would rather have Ms. Matusick where she is at. Councilwoman Rhodes stated in their consensus and talking, Ms. Matusick is off the table so they need to decide between Ms. Wenzel and Ms. Hilton. Councilman Cooper stated if they were to take both of the remaining applicants, Ms. Wenzel and Ms. Hilton, and had to do a one word description of that person what would they put on those two face sheets for each one. Councilwoman Rhodes felt they were both comparable. Councilman Cooper stated he was looking for if you had to come up with a one word answer on the two remaining individuals, that was their most positive trait, that would make them most accessible for this job, what would it be. Nothing derogatory. Why they should be the best for this job in a one-word answer. Councilwoman Rhodes was willing to tell them whom she would choose and felt she doesn't need to go through the word games. Councilman Cooper stated there is always a reason why you hire. It shouldn't always be who has the qualification skills as the most. They have so many other avenues. They have to gel into this job with a two-person job. This person's personality has to fit with so many diversified people, not just the Council. This person is going to be talking to everybody. Mayor Thomas stated and she is going to be representing our City. Councilman Cooper stated it is a very important task. If they take those three things and say it is that simple, they are Page 35 of 48 Council Special Meeting January 30, 2008 assuming everybody can do the job and he believed they are at that point. Who best takes in the other two objectives and best satisfies them where they feel most comfortable about it. She is going to be operating independent of the Council most of the time. He wants the one he feels can operate. Councilwoman Rhodes stated they are all doing that already. Councilman Cooper stated they asked for his opinion and he is giving it to them and now they are trying to cut him off. Mayor Thomas stated he already knows who is the best qualified in his mind and who did the best in the interview and who is eager for the job. Councilwoman Rhodes stated so did she. Councilwoman Rogers felt they were both driven and were both eager. Every positive word they could say, she couldn't say for one that she wouldn't say for the other. Councilman Cooper stated the one has more positives on one side than the other one has and the other one has some other positives that the other doesn't have. When you make that choice, which is more important. That is what they should do. Councilwoman Rhodes thinks they are all doing that. She feels when she makes her choice she doesn't need to explain why she made her choice. Mayor Thomas stated he was voting for Ms. Hilton. Councilwoman Rhodes stated she was voting for Ms. Wenzel. Councilwoman Bennington stated she was voting for Ms. Wenzel. Councilwoman Rogers stated she was voting for Ms. Wenzel. Councilman Cooper stated he was voting for Ms. Wenzel. Councilwoman Rhodes thought they were all bringing different things to the table and they all have different ways of making decision and one is no more right than the other one. She thinks almost every positive thing you could say about one you could say about both. They were very close and she has her own reasons. Councilwoman Rogers commented on being very happy because these are three people that already work for the City and they are outstanding. Everyone of them. Page 36 of 48 Council Special Meeting January 30,2008 Acting City Manager Barlow stated so by consensus it sounds like by majority vote and they have it by roll call to identify who voted for who. If by chance that Ms. Wenzel is not interested or they don't get where they want to with the pay, are they comfortable moving into the number two slot, Ms. Hilton. Council was okay with this. Acting City Manager Barlow stated most recently unfortunately some of the discussion has occurred before they got into this process. What he is doing is on the heels of amendment I, anticipating that and some other planning is, a while back they moved the Building Official to a part time status and extracted some savings there and was able to replace that with some clerk work. He is in the process, he has been talking with Darren about, he was considering doing the same thing. That development growth has slowed down, going part time where they can extract some additional savings. Part of that was possibly bringing Ms. Wenzel up into more of a leadership role and grooming her on the Planning side. She had a lot of desire there. He didn't want to confuse her going through this. He wanted her to have the fair opportunity to have that opportunity to choose which direction she wanted to go. Councilwoman Bennington asked Acting City Manager Barlow if he was saying she didn't know. Acting City Manager Barlow stated not until recently but he at least disclosed it because he was being fair to everyone. He encouraged her to go through. Councilwoman Rhodes had no problem with that at all. Acting City Manager Barlow stated when he orchestrates this with Darren he is going to go part time here. He is concerned as well as any other City employee as it relates to Amendment 1 that he might not have job. He was smart enough to go out and maybe secure some private work. He begged him that we still need his services here. Mayor Thomas stated so they are going to offer it to Ms. Wenzel unless they can't come to terms. Councilwoman Rogers stated offer what to Ms. Wenzel. Acting City Manager Barlow informed her City Clerk. Councilwoman Rogers was back to the Planning Department. Councilwoman Rhodes stated she is going to get to choose if she wants to be the City Clerk. Councilwoman Rogers asked what the position would be in the Planning Department. We are not losing Darren. Councilwoman Rhodes stated Darren is going to part time. Councilwoman Rogers thought she Page 37 of 48 Council Special Meeting January 30, 2008 understood Acting City Manager Barlow as saying her position was going to part time. Acting City Manager Barlow stated he could be going part time. That is something they are discussing right now to extract some efficiencies there. If Darren decides to do that and go part time, he would have to elevate Bonnie to more of a leadership role or supervisory role. Councilwoman Cooper felt it felt into a similar situation as Ms. Matusick. Councilwoman Rogers mentioned Ms. Wenzel's degree that she is seeking at UCF is Political Science. Councilwoman Rhodes thought it was public administration. Councilwoman Rogers thinks that would be more conductive for somebody in the City Clerk position than Planning because she is not going for engineering or architectural type things. Acting City Manager Barlow stated most of her studies have been in that line of planning. She has had an interest with that now. This would have been a step up for her. That is a decision she has to make. Councilwoman Bennington asked if she knew that this is maybe in the plans. Acting City Manager Barlow stated she knows part of that. Councilwoman Rhodes felt they were very lucky in that Ms. Wenzel and Ms. Hilton were to so close and so qualified. If Ms. Wenzel wants to do this, she doesn't feel like they are losing anything if Ms. Hilton is the City Clerk. Acting City Manager Barlow stated first Council was going to give him direction of where to start for the offer. If they don't get to number one and they want them to go to number 2. They will tell him where they want to start the salary at. The last part of this session if they want is to look at the changes that were made in the contract agreement. If they are good with that, they would use that to execute. Councilwoman Rogers felt if Ms. Wenzel was going to look at two options, they would have to give her two salaries. The bottom line is money. Councilman Cooper asked if this option is actually on the table. Has Darren told him he is going part time. Acting City Manager Barlow informed him no, they were working all that out. He projected with Darren going part time that it would be a $30,000 savings to the City. Councilwoman Rogers asked Acting City Manager Barlow if he bumped her up what would her salary be. Councilwoman Bennington stated she is making $37,000 almost $38,000 now. Acting City Manager Barlow stated she would probably in the ball park of about $50,000 per year. Page 38 of 48 Council Special Meeting January 30, 2008 Councilwoman Rhodes asked what Ms. Hilton makes. Councilwoman Bennington informed her $43,770.00. Councilwoman Rhodes suggested they offer $46,000 for both of them. Mayor Thomas felt they should offer $50,000 due to this being a lot of responsibility. Councilwoman Rhodes stated when they got to the contract she was going to make mention of this because she didn't read it in the contract with regard to a probationary period being put on. If they kept her she could bump up. Councilwoman Rogers agreed with $46,000 offered to each. She questioned if one of them had already gone through some of the municipal clerk training. Councilwoman Bennington stated no. She pointed out that Ms. Hilton has a Bachelor's Degree. Councilwoman Rhodes stated Ms. Hilton is making $43,770 now. She suggested they offer her $48,000. Mayor Thomas stated upon successfully completing the probationary period they will make it $51,000 or $52,000. Councilwoman Rhodes suggested they go with $50,000 and make it $52,000. Councilwoman Rogers didn't like $37,000 to $46,000 and $43,770 to $46,000. They have to be good negotiators of the City's money. If they got Ms. Wenzel they would be able to get her at $42,000 to start. She is coming from $37,000 to $42,000. That is a $5,000 increase. Why bump her to $46,000 right off the start. Mayor Thomas stated because of the job involved. Councilwoman Rhodes stated they are going to have to offer both of them the same amount. Mayor Thomas asked what the Clerk was making in New Smyrna Beach. Councilwoman Bennington stated she is making $56,000 and has 15 months as the City Clerk. Port Orange is $56,000. Councilwoman Rhodes stated but they don't know what their experience was coming in to those jobs. Mayor Thomas stated Holly Hill is $48,000 and has three years experience on the job. Councilwoman Rogers stated even though they feel Ms. Wenzel first, Ms. Hilton has had supervisory experience and Ms. Wenzel hasn't. Councilman Cooper commented on having two things to accomplish. They have the probationary period, Page 39 of 48 Council Special Meeting January 30, 2008 which he felt was excellent. The other thing is . successfully completing the City Clerk's training program. Mayor Thomas stated upon successfully completing the City Clerk's training program and the probationary period they will bump her up to $52,000. Because of the time it takes to obtain the certification, they would skip the certification and go with successful completion of the probationary period. Councilwoman Rhodes suggested a six- month probationary period. Ms. Looney stated the normal in a promotion is six months. Councilwoman Rogers felt they should offer it to Ms. Wenzel at $42,000. If Ms. Wenzel doesn't take it then they are going to have to offer it to Ms. Hilton for more than what she is making. Acting City Manager Barlow stated they could evaluate and benchmark her formal education if they would like. Councilwoman Rhodes stated if they are asking somebody to do the same job and they are willing to pay somebody else less to do the exact same job that you would pay somebody else. Acting City Manager Barlow commented on it being based on the formalized education. Councilman Cooper felt the offer should be equal. He suggested coming in at $45,000 and put the caveat that they would be bumped up to $50,000 one they complete the three-year program. Mayor Thomas stated no three years, six months. Councilman Cooper felt $5,000 in six months was a huge jump. Councilwoman Bennington stated that is a lot of responsibility. Mayor Thomas agreed. Councilman C?oper questioned if the job is worth $50,000 a year. Councilwoman Bennington commented on it being equivalent to the City Manager. Councilwoman Rhodes suggested they go to $50,000 at end of her probation. Councilman Cooper commented on these being huge raises. Councilwoman Rhodes commented on every City Clerk in this County making more money than that. They are expecting this person to do the same job that they paid somebody $76,000 a year to do. Mayor Thomas entertained a motion regarding the salary. Councilwoman Rhodes asked if they should make motion of who they are going to hire first. Mayor Thomas stated they Page 40 of 48 Council Special Meeting January 30, 2008 already did that. Councilwoman Rhodes stated they didn't make a motion. Mayor Thomas entertained a motion on who they are going to hire as City Clerk. Acting City Manager Barlow stated they are putting her into a position that has not materialized yet. He is talking to Darren. None of this is finalized and shouldn't be a consideration. Councilman Cooper stated if Ms. Wenzel takes the job at the $47,000 or whatever they offer at this stage of the game and this job comes up that Mr. Barlow is talking about and it's comparable and let's say her first love is Planning & Zoning and she wants to bounce back. He questioned Councilwoman Rhodes thinking it is a no brainer because they could then hire Ms. Hilton. Councilwoman Rhodes stated if they are reading her, she didn't think she was going to do that. If that is her plan, then why start her out as a City Clerk. Councilman Cooper stated they couldn't surmise what her plan is. Councilwoman Rhodes stated but they could ask her. They could say if she was offered is Planning & Zoning her first love. If she was offered a comparable salary in Planning & Zoning, would you rather do that than be City Clerk? Why can they not ask that? Councilman Cooper stated they just got done beating him up for asking Ms. Matusick the same question. Councilwoman Bennington stated she spoke to Ms. Wenzel and she applied for this position because she was as far as she could go in the Planning Department. Councilwoman Rhodes stated now they are saying they are going to take it further. Councilwoman Rogers stated she doesn't want to go forw~rd and have her in this position for six months. If they have the opportunity to go backwards, they can't just take Ms. Hilton and stick her in as City Clerk six months later. They would have to start the process allover again. Maybe what they need to do is give it another week and Acting City Manager Barlow should talk to Darren. Councilwoman Rhodes stated it doesn't matter if they talk to Darren. They need to talk to Ms. Wenzel. Maybe she doesn't want to do that. Councilman Cooper stated it's not going to be slow over there very long. Acting City Manager Barlow informed her it was on the agenda for discussion on Monday. Page 41 of 48 Council Special Meeting January 30, 2008 Councilwoman Bennington felt this thing with Ms. Wenzel and the Planning Department. It's just smoke in the air. It is nothing permanent. If they pick Ms. Wenzel then that is what they need to address. Keep it simple. She didn't think the money issue should differentiate between either one of them. They should determine how much they are willing to pay for that position and whoever comes in that's it. She thought Mayor Thomas suggested they start them at $46,000 or $45,000 and then after the six-month probation raise them up. She feels that is the simplest way to do it. Councilman Cooper stated this will have to land on it's own feet. Councilwoman Rhodes felt they should direct the City Manager that the Planning position is less pay than the City Clerk. She felt it should be. Acting City Manager Barlow explained once she vacates a position, she doesn't have the right to automatically go back. He feels they create the opportunity but don't make the decision for them. Create the opportunity based on what the Council found as the best candidate and let them make that decision for themselves. Councilwoman Rhodes asked how much the new Finance Director was going to be paid. Acting City Manager Barlow informed her he was coming in at $72,000. He further commented on his credentials. Council agreed on offering $46,000 with an increase to $50,000 after six months. Mayor Thomas entertained a motion on who they are going to hire for City Clerk. Councilman Cooper made a motion to select Bonnie Wenzel for the City Clerk position, second by Councilwoman Rogers. The MOTION CARRIED 5 - 0 . Mayor Thomas entertained a motion on the starting salary. Councilwoman Rogers moved to start the position at $46,000 and after six months probationary period they increase that person's salary to $50,000, second by Councilwoman Bennington. The MOTION CARRIED 5-0. Page 42 of 48 Council Special Meeting January 30, 2008 Acting City Manager Barlow asked for direction. He asked if that doesn't work out if the Council wants him to negotiate the same deal with Ms. Hilton. It was the consensus of Council to do that. Councilwoman Rhodes asked if they could add to this for Acting City Manager Barlow's direction that if it does fall through for Ms. Wenzel and they do have to negotiate with Ms. Hilton that there be some salary leeway negotiation there. Mayor Thomas asked how much Ms. Hilton was making. Councilwoman Bennington informed him $43,000. Mayor Thomas felt that would be a good raise. Councilwoman Rhodes stated it should be but she might say she doesn't want to do all the extra work for not enough extra money. Councilwoman Bennington stated they have established a City Clerk. In her eyes the tops are $50,000 for a new one coming in. Councilwoman Rhodes stated she was asking if they wanted to negotiate the salary. Mayor Thomas asked Acting City Manager Barlow if they could discuss some other things. Acting City Manager Barlow suggested they talk about the contract. He asked if they were comfortable with the changes City Attorney Ansay made. He commented on the additional changes as referenced to Ms. Wenzel being she is not part of the old pension plan. They have verbiage that identifies a defined contribution. Councilwoman Rhodes stated they needed to put somewhere In the contract about the probationary period being six months. Mayor Thomas entertained a motion to accept the contract. Councilman Cooper commented on Item A and felt it should be a specified time frame of twelve months, not an open ended contract continued upon completion of a proper review process and evaluation. Right now that paragraph says you have a contract for life. Councilwoman Rhodes stated until such time as they terminate someone or they leave. Councilman Cooper felt it was wide open. It automatically renews. If they do it on a time frame, then they satisfy the termination things that are in there but they also have a way to look at this on a review and evaluation process after twelve months. It doesn't say it has anything to do with job. It just says they will do an evaluation and they still keep the job whether it is good, bad or indifferent. Page 43 of 48 Council Special Meeting January 30, 2008 Acting City Manager Barlow stated from a professional standpoint he would be careful there to have a contract that could terminate in 12 months. They are only talking $50,000. He wasn't sure who would gamble that knowing that they could be released. Councilman Cooper stated there isn't a job out in the world that if you got the job and fail horrendously in an evaluation and they give you the notices, you are going to keep it. Contracts are worded to protect the person from doing a lousy job. He feels that is wrong. Councilwoman Rhodes didn't know how he saw that. Acting City Manager Barlow stated there is no severance. Councilman Cooper stated there is no severance but when you read the evaluation area it has no strength. Councilwoman Rhodes stated they have the strength to fire them. Councilman Cooper stated if they had a proper evaluation done, he wasn't saying they have to terminate. Why do they always think the worst. They can get things out of an evaluation by doing it correctly. They can motivate, instill and outline. They can train an individual through evaluations. They evaluate with no clout. Councilwoman Rhodes stated doesn't the evaluation, the fact you're your job depends on it have some clout. Councilman Cooper stated it doesn't say that. Councilwoman Bennington felt if they were going to evaluate her on an annual basis, it should be tied in with the salary increase. Councilman Cooper stated they have to have some type of clout for the evaluation. Councilwoman Bennington stated it should say if the evaluation is good then she gets an increase. Councilman Cooper suggested they let City Attorney Ansay pull it out and word it correctly. Councilman Cooper felt they shouldn't use firing all the time. Councilwoman Rogers stated not to renew the contract is the term. Acting City Manager Barlow stated that is tough for an employee to understand. Councilman Cooper stated most employees get evaluated twice a year. Councilwoman Bennington stated they had a City Manager's contract and they evaluated him every year and his raise was based on his evaluation. Councilwoman Rhodes stated that is not a problem. Councilman Cooper felt they had to have the evaluation and have some clout to it. Councilman Cooper asked if Item C could be adopted once a proper review Committee has absolved the said person of any purposeful or intent should such findings be positive on the City's obligation. In here they say they can break the law and the City will pony up whatever lawsuits are and Page 44 of 48 Council Special Meeting January 30, 2008 whatever the attorney's costs are. They are kind of saying there is no way they are going to hire a person they believe is going to intentionally come in and break the law. With the education and schooling they have to have, they now have knowledge of what is the law and what isn't the law and they have to take some personal responsibility for acting in accordance thereof. Councilwoman Bennington stated you can break the law without really intending to. Mayor Thomas suggested since Councilman Cooper had some things he wanted to write down suggestions on the draft and they will review them and give them to City Attorney Ansay. The ones they think are valid or not valid. Councilwoman Bennington stated that is going to extend the time. Mayor Thomas suggested they give him a time limit and asked Councilman Cooper how much time he needed. Councilman Cooper stated he could give it to City Attorney Ansay tomorrow. Councilwoman Rhodes stated she had one word she wanted to change in the contract. Mayor Thomas asked about Monday night because then they want to look it over. Acting City Manager Barlow stated if he already had his notes and Councilwoman Rhodes had one word. If they give it to him he could get it to City Attorney Ansay and she would have it complete by Monday night. Under the City Attorney report she could go over it. He will try to get the changes and get them into Council's hands before Monday so they have another opportunity to evaluate them. Mayor Thomas felt Councilman Cooper was trying to look out for the City from the mistakes they made with the other contracts. Councilwoman Rogers felt what Councilman Cooper was trying to bring to their attention was where it said safe, harmless and indemnify the City. If they do something they want them to be held accountable for it. She agreed. Councilman Cooper stated he doesn't want the City to always be the one because they would be less apt to do anything. If they check something twice if they knew they might be held responsible. Mayor Thomas confirmed they were going to make the additions or deletions and give them to Acting City Manager Barlow. Acting City Manager Barlow wanted to make sure they were clear as to whether or not Council wants a terminating date Page 45 of 48 Council Special Meeting January 30, 2008 on this contract. Mayor Thomas stated no. Councilwoman Bennington stated no. Councilman Cooper felt they could do it on a year-to-year basis. Councilwoman Rogers stated Councilman Cooper doesn't like it because it is open ended and he would rather it renewable every year. Councilman Cooper suggested putting in the caveat that if they don't give them the thirty-day notice it is automatically renewed. He feels it gives them some avenues. Councilwoman Rogers suggested they ask City Attorney Ansay. Councilwoman Bennington went back to the compensation and annual increases where it says annual pay increases will be granted at the rate the City Council approves. She felt that sentence should be taken out and it should be with satisfactory evaluations. Councilwoman Rhodes stated under Performance Evaluation, Item A, annually the City, City Manager and City Clerk shall define such goals. She suggested they take City Manager out and make annually the City Council and City Clerk shall define such goals. She felt the City Manager should be left out. Acting City Manager Barlow stated but the Council still has the opportunity to work with the City Manager on goals. Councilwoman Bennington stated so until they look at it again they can't go to Ms. Wenzel with the contract. All they can tell her is they picked her and will bring negotiations back. Mayor Thomas questioned being able to tell her the salary. Councilwoman Rhodes felt they should tell her. They hired her. Councilwoman Bennington suggested bringing her in and telling her. Acting City Manager Barlow stated he could also share with Ms. Wenzel some of the changes they are looking at. Mayor Thomas commended the Council on working together as a team. Councilman Cooper and Councilwoman Bennington coming on board just two months. He feels like the City has progressed enormously. He applauded them and the whole Council working as a team. Before they had some animosity. He appreciated the effort. He feels they are progressing Page 46 of 48 Council Special Meeting January 30, 2008 so fast. He is so proud and sleeping good at night. He would like to if they can do the Assistant to the City Manager thing. Councilwoman Rhodes stated they can't do that. Acting City Manager Barlow has to. Acting City Manager Barlow stated he and Personnel Director Looney would start working on a'draft. Mayor Thomas wanted to instruct Acting City Manager Barlow to start looking for a Police Chief. Councilwoman Rhodes thought he wanted to wait until the new City Manager is hired. They have a Police Chief that has a contract until March. Acting City Manager Barlow confirmed he would like to wait until March to keep it clean. Councilman Cooper stated he is being asked a million times a week if Mike Ignasiak was available and if they want him back or not. Councilman Cooper asked if that is a positive or a negative. Acting City Manager Barlow stated it doesn't make any difference at this point. We have a Police Chief that is effective until March and he is available to him as a consultant if need be. He will be coming back before Council at the first meeting in March for Council to give him direction on how they want him to put together the City Manager selection process. Councilwoman Rogers asked if there would be a Committee for the hiring of the Chief of Police. Acting City Manager Barlow informed her it depends if he hires the position or another City Manager does it. Councilwoman Rogers would like to be on that Committee. Councilman Rhodes informed Ms. Wenzel she just got five new bosses. Councilwoman Rogers informed her that was if she wanted it. Councilwoman Bennington stated pending acceptance of the contract. Councilman Cooper informed her the City Clerk position was being offered to her with all things considered. There are some minor contract changes that Tracey would go over with her. The Mayor has satisfied a salary. Mayor Thomas stated they would like to start at $46,000. Upon satisfactory completion of a six-month probationary period she would be elevated to $50,000. Councilwoman Bennington informed her they have to negotiate the contract. Page 47 of 48 Council Special Meeting January 30, 2008 Acting City Manager Barlow informed her she didn't have to make a decision now. They just wanted to let her know. He commented on giving her an opportunity to look at the contract. Councilwoman Rhodes stated they needed it pretty quick. Ms. Wenzel thanked the Council and commented on being extremely overwhelmed. She was very appreciative. Councilman Cooper informed her she deserved it. Ms. Wenzel again thanked the Council very much and informed them she appreciated it. Councilwoman Bennington informed her they hoped they could work out the contract with her because they don't want to do this again. ADJOURNMENT There being no further business to discuss, Councilwoman Bennington moved to adjourn. The meeting adjourned at 4:13 p.m. Minutes submitted by: Lisa Bloomer Page 48 of 48 Council Special Meeting January 30, 2008