09-24-2007 - Regular
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CITY COUNCIL OF EDGEWATER
REGULAR MEETING
SEPTEMBER 24, 2007
8:35 P.M.
COMMUNITY CENTER
MINUTES
1. CALL TO ORDER
Mayor Thomas called the Regular Meeting to order at 8:35
p.m. in the Community Center.
ROLL CALL
Mayor Michael Thomas
Councilwoman Debra Rogers
Councilman Dennis Vincenzi
Councilwoman Harriet Rhodes
Councilwoman Judith Lichter
City Manager Jon Williams
City Clerk Susan Wadsworth
City Attorney Carolyn Ansay
Present
Present
Present
Present
Present
Present
Present
Present
INVOCATION, PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE
Due to having already said the pledge of allegiance at the
Special Meeting, Mayor Thomas opted not to do it again.
2. APPROVAL OF MINUTES
There were no minutes to be approved at this time.
3. PRESENTATIONS/PROCLAMATIONS/PLAQUES/CERTIFICATES/DON
ATIONS
There were no Presentations at this time.
4. CITIZEN COMMENTS
The following citizens spoke:
Susan Hounsom, 3115 Travelers Palm Drive, stated she was at
a shop on Riverside Drive and she saw this and she was okay
with it until she got to the third page. She asked to
present it to Council for them to look at and review.
Mayor Thomas asked her to hand it to City Clerk Wadsworth.
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John Cordeiro, 1515 Pine Tree Drive, stated his big
question is west of 1-95 the County did a study on all that
land and they paid over $100,000 to do that study. They
had an outfit in New Smyrna do it. All the results of that
study was it is non-buildable. All that land. How come
now it can be buildable. Because Edgewater wants to let a
developer build 9,000 homes out there.
Mayor Thomas asked Mr. Cordeiro if he wanted his question
answered on his time. Mr. Cordeiro informed him he wanted
an answer. City Manager Williams didn't know where Mr.
Cordeiro was getting his information from. That
determination has not been made at this point in time.
Mr. Cordeiro stated it most certainly was. He saw the
study. Mayor Thomas asked Mr. Cordeiro if he had the facts
with him. Mr. Cordeiro informed him no but agreed to get
them. City Manager Williams stated the study he maybe
referencing may be the Marshall study but he didn't know
that the decision had been made.
Mr. Cordeiro stated he does know why nobody wants to lower
the taxes. Because everyone wants to protect their
salaries. Some people make $140,000 and some make $70,000
and they don't even live in the City or pay taxes in the
City. He doesn't like his tax money paying an attorney to
take his rights and his freedom away from him on the
petitions. He doesn't think to use taxpayer money because
1,800 people signed the petitions. Just forget about them
right? Use City money to pay an attorney to take his
freedom and democracy away from him. It's not right. He
asked City Manager Williams if he thought it was right.
Mayor Thomas informed him he had to address the whole
Council, not just City Manager Williams.
Mr. Cordeiro stated there are so many unethical, immoral
and corrupt things going in this City. The Edgewater
hospitality thing should be taken off the wall and put up a
hammer and a sickle and a swastika because he feels that is
the kind of government they have here now.
5. CITY COUNCIL REPORTS
Councilwoman Rhodes had nothing at this time.
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Councilwoman Lichter stated there is a gal that collects
the money for utilities and she is what you call a temp
employee and her name is Christine. She never saw a more
efficient, better, cheerier worker in her life. She
complimented her tonight. She asked Personnel Director
Looney to let her know she thinks she is doing a wonderful
job. She came in the other day to pick up her packet and
there was a line out front. She was here for around seven
minutes and when she left Christine had taken care of the
whole line.
Councilwoman Lichter commented on a Green Development
Workshop she attended at the Daytona Beach Community
College on September 14th. She commented on what the word
green means in terms of development. It means efficiency
in terms of such things as electricity, water, and
environment. All aspects of building homes and how you can
make them green. The developers are now cooperating
especially in Volusia County with water. She commented on
a program called Florida Star in Volusia County. It was
one of the best programs she has ever been too. WAV was
part of sponsoring it.
Councilwoman Lichter feels it is sometimes confusing for
the taxpayers when it is put in the newspaper that if you
have a house that is worth $150,000 and your taxes are
going to be something like $600, it doesn't say Edgewater
taxes. Now her phone starts ringing because people are
concerned because their taxes may be twice that amount.
She feels they should specify Edgewater taxes because of
people paying taxes to other agencies as well.
Councilwoman Lichter commented on wanting to say something
about the discussion she has previously been subjected to.
In terms of the Reserve Fund, she has been sitting there
for years where they did not put the total sum in the
reserve fund. They have worked out a loan system that City
Manager Williams is going to be able to borrow from.
Several people at the last meeting brought up very strongly
from the audience that they were not living up to their
Charter requirements. That person asked City Attorney
Ansay if the City could be sued because of that. This City
is in such a state with being sued by so many entities. In
her mind, they could be sued for not living up to their
Charter obligation. She thinks that is when City Manager
Williams switched gears and looked at the budget again and
informed them what they should do.
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Councilwoman Lichter commented on a lot of the things in
the budget needing more money, which we don't have. We are
being sued by a lot of entities. Besides all those extra
dollars in potential suits this year, which they don't know
how they will be settled or where that money is going to
come from. Some of these things that are being done by the
very petition that was referred to by the gentleman that
spoke about them before, doesn't make the City so welcoming
to business. Business does not go where they feel you want
to stay and people have a legitimate desire to do this but
nothing stays the same in life but they don't want to go to
a City that says they want to be a quaint, little seaside
town. It's never clearly quite been like that before.
There has always been some kind of business local industry
and many things here. When you are dealing with a Walmart
or a large store or a big business they aren't particularly
looking for that community and they have to be aware of
that. They want business and they say halt, we really
don't want you here.
Councilwoman Rogers had nothing at this time.
Councilman Vincenzi had nothing at this time.
Mayor Thomas commented on attending Frank Bruno's luncheon
of the Mayors as well as the VCOG meeting. They spoke
about taxes and how they are doing it and budget and they
are trying to solve these problems. It's not just us.
Everybody is feeling the pain.
Mayor Thomas stated he spoke to a woman reserve officer and
she told him she the Police Department buildings pressure
cleaned and got the Crown Tree Service to donate the truck
and she got everything donated to have that pressure
cleaned. Police Chief Taves informed Mayor Thomas she is
not a reserve officer she is one of the CAPS volunteers.
Mayor Thomas stated he appreciated what she did and the
effort that the volunteers did.
6. CONSENT AGENDA
There were no items to be discussed on the Consent Agenda
at this time.
7. PUBLIC HEARINGS, ORDINANCES AND RESOLUTIONS
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A. Public Hearing, Stonecipher Enterprises on behalf
of Earthquake Magoon's, 132 West Park Avenue,
requesting a Special Activity Permit for their
annual Biketoberfest Oyster Roast for 2007
Development Services Director Darren Lear made a staff
presentation.
Due to there being no comments, Mayor Thomas opened and
closed the public hearing and entertained a motion.
Councilwoman Rogers moved to approve the Special Activity
Permit to allow Earthquake Magoon's to have an annual
Biketoberfest Oyster Roast to be held October 20th, second
by Councilwoman Rhodes.
The MOTION CARRIED 5 - 0 .
B. Public Hearing, No Name Saloon Enterprises, LLC
on behalf of No Name Saloon, 2001 South Ridgewood
Avenue, requesting a Special Activity Permit for
Biketoberfest for October 15, 2007 through
October 21, 2007
Development Services Director Lear made a staff
presentation.
Mayor Thomas asked for Council comment.
Mayor Thomas commented on reading they were expecting
thousands. He guessed the Police were prepared with a
plan.
Councilwoman Rhodes stated lots of overtime. Police Chief
Taves stated it is going on their bill if there is.
Mayor Thomas opened the public hearing.
The following citizen spoke:
Pat Card, 3019 Willow Oak Drive, asked what arrangements
were being made for the sound monitoring and who was paying
for it this year.
Fire Chief Tracey Barlow stated Code Enforcement would be
present as in the past at that location and the City will
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be reimbursed for any overtime hours, which they have
signed and agreed to.
Mayor Thomas closed the public hearing and entertained a
motion.
Councilwoman Rhodes made a motion to grant the No Name
Saloon a Special Activity permit for October 15th through
October 21, 2007, second by Councilwoman Lichter.
The MOTION CARRIED 5 - 0 .
C. Resolution #2007-R-13, First Amendment to
Interlocal Agreement for Public School Facility
Planning - amending the Agreement dated March 19,
2003 to comply with Senate Bill 360 and the
School Planning Charter Amendment
City Attorney Ansay read Res. 2007-R-13 into the record.
Development Services Director Lear made a presentation
regarding Item C - Res. 2007-R-13 and Item D - Ord. 2007-0-
18 due to them being interrelated.
Councilwoman Lichter commented on attending the local
workshop concerning this. At first she thought it would
have more to do with growth. The core of it she believes
is concurrency. It's not just a matter of growth. She
spoke of schools that are clustered or together will be
consistent in what they offer children with regard to class
size, subject matter and quality of education. They want
to make sure that the children in the schools in a rural
area get the same education as intercity.
Mr. Lear stated what they are dealing with right now is the
growth part with the level of service standards.
Councilwoman Lichter asked what their area is. Mr. Lear
explained they have different zones for elementary schools,
middle schools, and high schools. We are in the southeast
portion.
Mayor Thomas asked if they have a choice. City Manager
Williams informed him no.
Mayor Thomas opened the public hearing.
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The following citizen spoke:
NoraJane Gillespie, representing the Southeast Volusia
League of Women Voters, stated she has attended everyone
of the School Board meetings. Edgewater's zone for Indian
River now extends to Williams Road in Oak Hill. That is to
allow Burns to take on the growth to the south county line.
Reed Pattilo has just been changed. Their zoning allows
Edgewater to go north from Edgewater Public to Mission Road
and out 10th Street. That will now be Edgewater Public's
north line. The school at SR442 will be a K-8, two-story.
Look for it in 2010.
Mayor Thomas closed the public hearing and entertained a
motion.
Councilwoman Lichter moved to approve Res. 2007-R-13, First
Amendment to Interlocal Agreement for Public School
Facility Planning - amending the Agreement dated March 19,
2003 to comply with Senate Bill 360 and the School Planning
Charter Amendment, second by Councilwoman Rhodes.
The MOTION CARRIED 5 - 0 .
D. 1st Reading, Ord. #2007-0-18, CPA-0703 - City of
Edgewater requesting an amendment to the
Comprehensive Plan to include a Public School
Facilities Element and to the Intergovernmental
Coordination and Capital Improvements Element
City Attorney Ansay read Ord. 2007-0-18 into the record.
Development Services Director Lear made a staff
presentation for Item D - Ord. 2007-0-18 under Item C -
Res. 2007-R-13 due to them being interrelated.
Due to there being no comments, Mayor Thomas opened and
closed the public hearing and entertained a motion.
Councilwoman Lichter moved to approve Ord. 2007-0-18, CPA-
0703 - City of Edgewater requesting an amendment to the
Comprehensive Plan to include a Public School Facilities
Element and to the Intergovernmental Coordination and
Capital Improvements Element, second by Councilwoman
Rhodes.
The MOTION CARRIED 5 - 0 .
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8. BOARD APPOINTMENTS
There were no Board Appointments at this time.
9. OTHER BUSINESS
A. Other Business - Goals/performance objectives for
City Manager for FY 2007/2008 to be set by
Council
City Manager Williams informed the Mayor & Council that he
had included in the packet a copy of his agreement with the
City. The goals that the Council set for him last year at
this point in time and the status of each one of those
goals in a memo basically describing that pursuant to
Article 4, Performance Evaluation of the attached agreement
for the City Manager, Paragraph A requir~s the City Council
to evaluate the performance for the previous year and
define goals and performance objectives for the upcoming
year. Paragraph B requires that the City Manager provide
an update on efforts put forth to achieve the goals and
objectives previously set by Council. He referred to the
copy of the City Manager's goals for 2006/2007 that were
signed by Council last year with a brief summation relating
to the completion and/or status with each. He asked for
Council's pleasure.
Councilwoman Rhodes felt it was very comprehensive. She
stated she called City Manager Williams today and asked him
exactly what he wanted from this because she wasn't exactly
sure. These are all the goals that the City Council set
for City Manager Williams at the beginning of the last
fiscal year. Underneath of the goals that were set is what
he did to achieve those goals. She stated they have the
list of the goals and what City Manager Williams did to
achieve them and on the agenda it says that he wants goals
and objectives for fiscal year 2007/2008, for this coming
year.
City Manager Williams confirmed that was correct.
Councilwoman Rhodes asked him if he wanted a discussion of
his achievements for the past year?
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City Manager Williams was open to whatever Council's
pleasure was with regards to the status of those current
goals.
City Manager Williams explained what he has tried to do
just to make this somewhat of an easier document to look at
is recalling last year when the original goals were set
they kind of went around the room and everybody had an
opportunity to describe what their goals were. What they
tried to do is go back and lump those goals into like kind
goals that the Council had established for him and then the
bold italicized summations with dates etc. are underneath
to communicate to them what actions they took on which
dates to try to attempt that.
Councilwoman Rhodes again asked City Manager Williams if he
wanted a discussion of his goals from last year or if he
wanted new goals for this year.
City Manager Williams informed her he would like to have
both.
Councilwoman Rhodes felt City Manager Williams did almost
everything they asked him to do. Some she thinks he was
reaching for a little bit here. She used continuing
education as an example. She spoke of him planning to
attend but not attending anything yet.
City Manager Williams informed her no and referred to
budgetary constraints.
Councilwoman Rhodes commented on having better
communication with our House and Senate representatives.
She mentioned City Manager Williams and Senator Lynn having
a discussion.
City Manager Williams stated he participated with the Mayor
and Councilwoman Lichter on a couple different occasions
and conversations with the whole delegate up in Tallahassee
regarding the property tax reform issues so forth as
permitted.
Councilwoman Rhodes felt he should have wrote that down.
She feels City Manager Williams had the most difficult year
as did all the department heads and all the employees had
the most difficult year. She thinks it was almost
superhuman that he was able to accomplish and she pointed
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out he took the wrath from the Council and the wrath from
the employees for the things that had to be done. She
didn't have any goals right now for next year. Her goal is
to get through the budget and wanting to be on sounder
financial footing. She thinks they are headed in that
direction. She wanted the employees to know with money in
their hand that they are appreciated, that they are going
to suffer through this year but next year it's going to be
better. They're going to either bring in new revenue and
beef up economic development so that they can bring in new
revenue. They are going to have a larger tax base. They
are going to have lower assessments. Whatever it takes to
bring more money into the City so that they can accomplish
a sounder financial footing and by that she meant she wants
the Charter requirement met. She feels the Charter
requirement met and the State mandate has to be their
threshold. She would like to see if it's possible that
they go over and above that. She also would like to see
that if something happens and at the end of this year they
come in with more money than they thought they were going
to. In other words the Charter requirements met, they have
a start on a Capital Fund so that they can replace vehicles
and equipment and if there is money over and above that she
would like to see a minimum set for a capital requirement
fund yearly and over and above that any money she thinks
should be given to the employees in the form of a bonus of
some sort. That money should be divided between them
because they took the biggest hit for all of this. She
would also like to have a workshop where the Council sits
and discusses with City Manager Williams more definitive
goals, more strategic planning like they did before. She
stated her head has been so full of budget that it's been
hard for her to see past money at this point and she would
like to have an opportunity to refine some thoughts.
City Manager Williams commented on having an election
coming up and some of the faces will change certainly and
his thought process for that is to certainly conduct
another strategic planning session as they did in January.
Just for clarification purposes he asked if that is what he
is that Councilwoman Rhodes would like to do.
Councilwoman Rhodes stated she would like to do it at a
later date but that's up to Council. She stated she
thought City Manager Williams accomplished what they asked
him to accomplish and her recommendation would be that he
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would get the same raise that all the rest of the employees
are gOlng to get, 3%. That's it.
Councilwoman Lichter stated 80% has been able to be
accomplished. She felt 20% was really tied into money that
they don't have. She was talking about road funding which
is if anything shows up in extra money she feels they can't
let it all go by or they will be digging cars out of those
holes. It's got to really be addressed. She thinks that
maybe people haven't had time to look at her historical
interests. She was the one who wrote that one. Seek more
grants specifically in terms of historical things. She
commented on working so hard for that mural. That mural
cost $5,000 and it was called Judy's pretty picture but it
was appreciated by everyone that saw it and it reflected
Edgewater. There are things that can be done here without
getting grants. She always had an idea that if they could
put some kind of tape that could go into people's cars that
are visiting or staying at the motel that shows the
historic landmarks in this City maybe with a mural, maybe
with an identification. It could include Edgewater, Oak
Hill, and New Smyrna. It could be fundraising. We do have
historic things here and she's been in places out west
actually Oregon where they did put something in the car and
followed the trail. There are ways to make money with
history. It's what people that now come to Florida want to
see, cultural things and history things etc. She thinks
they missed the boat a little bit on that but she thinks
City Manager Williams had so many other interests his first
year. She feels he has done a good job with the temporary
shelter. It is looking better. Our new manager-animal
control person, Johnny Dail, has been able to get it to
balance somewhat better financially but she thinks that the
public's getting restless. She's getting restless. The
volunteers are getting tired and restless. The animals are
in good shape. They're happy. But when they don't have
air for themselves and hot water for themselves and things
they've got to move on it. The same applies to the
shuffleboard courts and she knows he's trying but that has
been a very slow process and a tiring one and it's not
anyone's fault. It's just so many things have happened.
But now it's time to put their finger on the button there.
City Manager Williams responded by assuring the Council and
the residents that they are making progress with that. He
had a meeting this week with staff to go over the RFP and
put it in its final form.
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Councilwoman Lichter asked City Manager to
those letters mean. City Manager Williams
RFP is Request for Proposal.
explain what
informed her an
Councilwoman Lichter stated a request for proposal of any
type of structure they could build. City Manager Williams
stated Public Works projects and City Attorney Ansay may
want to add to this is to assure the folks that there is a
State Statute that requires all Public Works projects of
this nature to be bid and therefore they are going to go
out via an RFP and solicit proposals for contractors to
come in and build the shelter using a design build concept.
There were challenges. They've had emirate of issues that
have developed that have forced delays of one or the other
and that they've had to be in what he would call mop up
stage here to get this thing on the path of righteousness.
So that's kind of a very short history of what's going on
there without getting into the details and being here until
one or two in the morning. But we are meeting. It is
moving forward. The money is in the bank. It's down at
Wachovia bank. There was a requirement that they set it up
into a different account and hold those funds separately.
Mr. Tanner will love this but for anybody that would like
to see all the reconciliations that were done on that money
he would be happy to meet with them and give them a copy of
all that information.
Councilwoman Lichter stated she wasn't questioning where
the money is but she knew some people in this community
have.
City Manager Williams had also heard it. He's heard it so
it's there. Isn't it Brett? Mr. Tanner agreed it's there.
City Manager Williams stated but just to try to put some
assurances on that. Councilwoman Lichter thanked him.
Mayor Thomas asked Councilwoman Lichter if she was
complete. Councilwoman Lichter stated she was complete
except other things in here. Not goals. She also had
questions on salary and other things later.
Mayor Thomas asked Councilwoman Lichter if she wanted to
set up a strategic workshop. Councilwoman Lichter stated
well how much longer am I going to be here? She was saying
that in two senses. She really wants to be alive to see
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the shovel go in the ground for the shelter.
dream.
That's her
Councilwoman Lichter stated she was going to say move it in
square but move it. But she will not be here to make those
decisions. She thought she had another month and she was
taking her leave after ten years. She spoke of serving
four years before serving on Council on the Planning &
Zoning Board and she has served her community. She didn't
think she wanted to make those kinds of decisions.
Councilwoman Rogers stated she was happy with the format
that City Manager Williams has put this together as far as
the goals, what he has done so far and then those goals
that he hasn't met, he just kind of left it there with no
comments but the previous City Manager didn't seem to be as
conscious about this as this City Manager is. Good bad or
in between he is trying and she could see that and she is
happy to finally find out what happened to the dredging
material. A lot of different little things she was curious
about in the past she never got clear answers on. There
are still things she wants clear answers on and she was
sure that she would get them if she digs and digs. But one
thing that they were going to do after the last audit was
complete was have an expanded scope in some areas and one
of the areas was ParkTowne and of course now ParkTowne is
sold and she didn't pursue that because our audited
statements came back to the City later than what they were
initially promised to us to come and be presented and due
to the fact they were already into the next budget cycle it
was just fruitless to go back and start expanding the scope
and looking at things. But she was concerned with the fact
that they have the 57 employees in the Defined Benefit Plan
and all the issues that have been brought out to light
recently and the fact that things are having to be
modified. She was concerned because she believes those
areas were not normal. They were reoccurring. They were
not normal and they were never in the financial statements
regarding the Defined Benefit Plan and everything. Those
employees did have a right but unfortunately they are
having to do what they have to do because of the economics
of the situation. So she knows that they have a three-year
contract with the CPA firm but she would hope that City
Manager Williams could look through things and see what
they can do so that they can replace that firm so they can
go forward. She feels it's necessary. And in so doing
have something set up internally Mr. Tanner as far as
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trying to keep up with these fluctuations so that they are
not in this same situation next year. And that they have
to continually hurt employees because if they don't start
doing something now and monitoring it, she means it's
volatile, it's changing. They have to do something. So
replace the firm and come up with something where they
could measure the performance or get the information and be
able to present that and as far as a workshop to discuss
goals and whatnot she thinks it is necessary and it's
something they should probably do after the first of the
year. She believes that would be a good time to do it and
as far as communication with department heads, she brought
up the issue with the Fire Department and the Police
Department and it appeared that there wasn't a
communication problem with the Police Department on these
budget numbers. And there was a problem with the Fire
Department and she doesn't want to see that happen again.
She wasn't up there to go pointing fingers or this or that.
She really would rather be the bridge to fill the gap so if
they need to revisit that and have a workshop so the
Council can understand more about the mechanics of the Fire
Department and the two and the three and the this and the
that. She heard what Mr. Card had said about if two
emergency personnel are going out to a site and they really
need three and they have such an emergency, she doesn't
want to have on their hands that somebody died or that
somebody suffered a stroke. So she wanted to understand
that more and she's had so many phone calls and
conversations that it's not something you just grab and
grasp. You guys understand it but she thinks that the
Council needs to be better educated in those areas and at
the same time she would hope the communication gap could be
narrowed. So that's it.
City Manager Williams stated in reference to the
involvement or the monitoring of the budget and
fluctuations and changing economy etc. etc. the department
heads are going to find this as a bit of a surprise because
he hasn't had the opportunity really to sit down and
discuss this but thinking internally how they can do things
differently and improve the communication not only with the
Council but to our citizens. Our operating procedures in
terms of the finances is they go through a traditional
close now every month which is something that you see out
in the private accounting worlds. Once those books have
been closed for that period essentially that means all
reconciliations have been done, all transactions etc etc.
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have been done. Looking at a mechanism, that once Mr.
Tanner gives the signal for the close, then the very next
meeting following the signal of the close that the
department heads appear before the Council and do a
presentation. A presentation on exactly where they are
with their budgets, what they are responding to
economically and how they are incorporating those changes
providing Council with the necessary statistics that are
pertinent to each one of the business units that they know,
operate and manage. Just to keep an open line of
communication going. He is already working on that as a
change for next fiscal year. They have just heard it for
the first time tonight. He would like the opportunity to
talk about the pros and cons with them certainly and the
challenges that present them. From a financial perspective
the emphasis is definitely placed on the fact that they
need to be monitoring their budgets and making the
appropriate modifications daily, weekly, monthly in some
cases it may be as frequent as that. And be able to
communicate how they are adjusting etc. etc. That's kind
of the direction they are already heading in.
Councilwoman Rogers commented on last year asking for City
Manager Williams to give them a quarterly report on the
residential and the commercial projects. She asked if they
could also have a report regarding the debt service and
they can talk about that because she's got some ideas as
far as the format of it. Her biggest concern is that the
City incurred this debt and service fees were supposed to
be coming in to help reduce that debt and the rate of that
reduction has been slowest at best and they need to look at
that so that in the future when they have other needs that
are unforeseen. Right now she would say it is going to be
very hard for them to meet those needs when they still have
this debt hanging over their heads. And it is kind of if
you're getting back into an accounting principle, matching
revenues and expenses and what was the life of that asset
that created that liability and are they paying that debt
down because eventually they've got to fix that asset or
modify it in the future to give them long term benefits
again. She feels they need to look real hard at that debt.
So the debt, the pension and a new CPA firm.
City Manager Williams stated on the RFP for the firm and
this is something that came up last year around this time.
Timing is everything with that. Right now the Finance
Department as of your action tonight on that financial
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budget will take off their budgeting hat and now put on the
auditing hat and they have already set the year-end audit
into motion. They've got the auditors due out here
Wednesday so that process is going on. When they met this
time last year this time most of the audit schedules have
been developed for all the other cities and the firms and
certainly another firm would come in and apply. But that's
going to prolong everything. He suggested and recommended
for the Council's consideration, that if understandably the
need to go out for an RFP and recognizing the goods
associated with that. He suggested they do it after the
audit and make it a primary objective that next year when
they're going into this that they have a new firm sitting
there so they don't delay the issuances of the financial
statements even more. Because that's what it's going 0
take. It's going to be a major learning curve that the new
auditors are going to have to get over. Even if they audit
every other city the audit and the methods that we have
used are going to be different because they apply
differently to different firms.
Councilwoman Rogers stated she would like to talk with City
Manager Williams more about this privately because she
thinks that they are just pushing off the inevitable again
and right now they have done a lot of things this year, a
lot of results have occurred, ParkTowne being sold etc. and
she didn't like how that was sold but anyways she thinks
that they may need to talk about this like really quick
because they can get somebody in here and she I thinks it's
important for them to go into the future because her gut
feeling is that there is some more things missing.
City Manager Williams stated if Council tells him tonight
by a majority to go out for an RFP, tomorrow morning he
will dust off the RFP and clean it up and they will head
out that way and look at the terms of the contract, get
with the legal counsel and begin the process. Just sitting
here suggesting to the Council that he thinks it would be
in their best interest, the City's best interest, and the
staff's best interest to wait until they have concluded
this year's audit just due to the timing and the learning
curve and all the new oxes that are going to change.
Councilwoman Rogers stated but they were late giving them
last year's audit so even if they get a new auditor and
they need a few extra months, the people that did it last
year were experienced and they didn't give it to them. It
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was 60 days plus later than what they told us. So here
they were the experienced ones and look at how long it took
them.
City Manager Williams stated they would be happy to do it.
If the Council tells him me by majority vote here tonight,
he will certainly start the process tomorrow.
Councilman vincenzi stated he was more than willing to wait
to a time when it's more conducive for business to run
smoothly and for the next audit cycle.
Councilman Vincenzi stated as far as evaluation, he thinks
City Manager Williams has done a great job especially since
he's a fairly new City Manager. He thinks he has had a lot
of difficult problems to tackle. He thinks he's attacked a
number of them and succeeded in if not solving the issues
then at least bringing them to light so they know what the
problems are. He commended him on that. He heard City
Manager Williams needs a little bit of training in dealing
with department heads and demeanor and things like that but
that will come with experience. Overall he thinks he's
done a great job. As far as goals for next year he thinks
a workshop would be the wise thing to do. He didn't know
about waiting until the first of the year but definitely
after the election, see who he has to deal with and they
can be part of the new goal setting process. As far as a
raise, he thinks it's fair if City Manager Williams gets
what other employees are getting.
City Manager Williams asked that Council put that into a
motion as well.
Councilwoman Rhodes assured him they would. They're going
to wait for the Mayor to finish his.
Mayor Thomas asked City Manager Williams if he could do
this job in three days a week. Our last City Manager was
only here three days a week and City Manager Williams has
given his all. He guaranteed it. He asked City Manager
Williams if he has had sleepless nights lately or if he had
had any knots in his belly, if he had felt any pain or felt
any emotion? He informed him he had. He knows he has
because he has shared it with him. It's not easy. He
commented on the employees being his family too. City
Manager Williams is the head of his household. They gave
him a budget. They gave him a grocery list and he's got to
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get there and get it done. We were doing good. He
informed City Manager Williams how proud he was of him.
He then presented a scenario. It's like you were driving a
car down the road. Okay we hit a little bump. Lawsuit.
Flat tire. We fix the flat tire, we're going on, we're
making progress. Okay and then we go rrrrr boom we have a
wreck. The legislature says you're doing this. We go how
are we going to do this? We've got major damage folks.
We've got to do bondo. We've got to do headlights. We've
got to keep this car on the road and guess what he did it.
He did it. And guess what he didn't tiptoe around any
problems. He hasn't done it politically. He's hit
everything straight on and guess what folks he's honest and
he has my vote of confidence and he has my vote of trust
and he thinks for a young, inexperienced person to come in
here and do that, he is proud of him.
City Manager Williams thanked him.
Mayor Thomas also wants to do a workshop after the election
for next year's goals. So we need a motion to what? What
do we need a motion to do?
Councilwoman Rhodes stated he asked for a consensus on
Councilwoman Rogers' and Councilman Vincenzi gave his
opinion but and that seemed to settle it so.
Mayor Thomas wanted to wait and think it over more as far
as the RFP.
Councilwoman Rhodes agreed with Councilman Vincenzi. She
is of the firm agreement that every so many years they
should change auditors regardless of whatever they think or
whatever's going on. She is always of that believement.
She feels the timing is bad on this.
Councilwoman Lichter stated although she will not be
involved in a general principle she thinks City Manager
Williams should make that decision of when and it doesn't
have to be tomorrow. He knows best all the things that
feed into the decision. She told him to decide when.
Councilwoman Rogers stated she wants to have it as a goal
because she thought as Council they were supposed to direct
City Manager Williams and that he doesn't direct them.
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Councilwoman Rhodes asked City Attorney Ansay a question.
She stated last year she and City Manager Williams
discussed that she wanted a morals clause in this contract
and they never could come up with one. She asked City
Attorney Ansay if she could draft something and if it's
okay with City Manager Williams. She stated this is not a
deal breaker but informed City Manager Williams if he was
sleeping with his secretary or whatever. Someone in the
audience pointed out that he didn't have one.
Councilwoman Rhodes informed City Manager Williams it
doesn't fall under the illegal category but it does fall
under the immoral category and she doesn't want to pay him
a year's severance pay while he's Bill Clinton. And she's
not going to pay it to City Manager Williams if he was
doing the same kind of crap.
City Manager Williams asked who is the judge and jury on
that one? Councilwoman Rhodes informed him she was. She
is real liberal about those kinds of things.
City Manager Williams asked her to clarify the judge and
jury a little bit.
Councilwoman Rhodes stated that's why she was asking City
Attorney Ansay if she could draft something up maybe in the
appropriate language that all of them can agree on.
Councilwoman Lichter asked City Attorney Ansay if she had
ever done that. Councilwoman Rhodes stated there's morals
clauses in almost everything.
City Attorney Ansay agreed to try to do a search. She's
done several City Manager contracts and executive directors
and she didn't know that she had ever had or seen a morals
clause. Councilwoman Rhodes stated she didn't know what
else to call it.
City Attorney Ansay used Bill Clinton as an example. There
are probably people in the audience who think he should
have been thrown out of office for that and there are
probably people in the audience who think you know quite
frankly that wasn't really the point of his job. That is
where the difficulty comes in from a legal perspective
comes but she agreed to try to find something.
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Councilwoman Rhodes feels if it's going on in that office
over there then it affects the job. If it's going on in
the motel down the street she doesn't care.
Councilwoman Rogers stated Jon is the City Manager. She
asked him if they have designations like certified public
accountants have designations and morals and ethics.
City Manager Williams stated he is a member of the ICMA and
the ICMA has a Code of Ethics that is established for City
Managers and certainly they can bring it forward and let
the Council look at it when they meet.
Councilwoman Rhodes suggested they put that in his
contract. If you violate the ICMA ethics then they don't
have to pay him.
City Manager Williams feels that one of the things that
they have to evaluate is them becoming a fully recognized
ICMA City and the actions associated with that.
Councilwoman Rhodes informed City Manager Williams he could
be dismissed with or without cause but in the case of the
Council dismissing him they can only. Cause is only if
you're thrown out by the State or by the Governor or you
commit a felony. There's a whole lot of gray area in there
that's not appropriate behavior for a City Manager and
there's nothing in here that releases this City from any
liability of that.
City Manager Williams stated as City Attorney Ansay pointed
out there are morals that some folks may find offensive.
Councilwoman Lichter stated maybe they're talking ethics or
another word than morals because what's accepted in one
community may not be accepted in another. She believes
that's a very touchy thing to use the word morals. Maybe
they're talking ethical beh~vior or something else.
Councilwoman Rhodes stated look at it this way. She
informed City Manager Williams this was no reflection on
him. He knows she doesn't think this of him. Let's look
at it this way. Jon's having sex with somebody in his
office, let's say another employee in his office. Somebody
else walks in on them. A Councilmember walks in on him and
says alright Jon you're out of here, we're not tolerating
this. Well guess what, if they do that and all of Council
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agrees that they do that, we have to pay him a year's
severance pay and she doesn't want to pay him a year's
severance pay for that.
City Manager Williams wanted to make sure that Kelly does
not get any of this wrong tomorrow in the paper because he
has a wife at home. Councilwoman Rhodes stated she didn't
know how to be more delicate about it. She apologized.
Councilwoman Rhodes stated see, if he would have just said
yes we'll look into that we would have never gone this far
into this conversation.
City Manager Williams stated as she said it wasn't a deal
breaker when they started right.
Councilwoman Rhodes stated that's what she said.
doesn't think Jon's that kind of guy so she's not
that worried about it but you never know.
She
really
Councilwoman Lichter stated well we're not talking about
just Jon. Councilwoman Rhodes was talking about anyone
that serves in that position.
Councilwoman Lichter suggested maybe a word ethical or
something else might be better. Again she is going to say
what to her is immoral may not be to someone else. She
feels they are getting into things that are a very touchy
area. You want to spell out how we wouldn't want him
anyone in the position stealing money. That's ethical or
whatever the proper word. Criminal I don't know but moral
is a very touchy one because it's such differences.
Mayor Thomas asked City Manager Williams if he had to
follow a Code of Ethics?
City Manager Williams confirmed being a member of the lCMA
he has to follow a Code of Ethics.
Councilwoman Rhodes stated she has always heard it called a
morals clause.
Councilwoman Rogers stated any professionals.
Councilwoman Rhodes stated you could call it whatever you
want. Just make sure that they don't have to pay him if
he's not behaving.
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Councilwoman Lichter asked if there is a precedent and any
place where it's done.
Mayor Thomas again asked City Manager Williams if he had to
follow a Code of Ethics.
City Manager Williams again informed him he follows the
lCMA Code of Ethics.
Councilwoman Rhodes suggested they put that in his
contract.
Mayor Thomas asked how many people on the Council wanted
that in his contract.
City Manager Williams felt they needed to go back and look
at it with the Attorney and then come forward.
Councilwoman Rhodes stated all he has to do is put one line
recognizing that he knows he violates the lCMA Code of
Ethics.
Councilwoman Lichter stated she would have to read what
that says. She doesn't know what they are.
City Manager Williams stated by being a member he has
already attested to the fact that he subscribes to the lCMA
Code of Ethics. Certainly something in that they will
approach but he couldn't certainly tell them today that he
was amenable to something of that nature.
Councilwoman Rhodes stated you're not going to be amenable
to be held fiscally accountable for following the Code of
Ethics.
City Manager Williams stated other issues the Council has
described is that they want him to receive the same raise
that he negotiated with the employees.
Councilwoman Rhodes made a motion that City Manager
Williams receive a 3% raise, second by Councilwoman
Lichter.
The MOTION CARRIED 5-0.
10. OFFICER REPORTS
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A. City Clerk Wadsworth
City Clerk Wadsworth had nothing at this time.
B. City Attorney Ansay
City Attorney Ansay reported on the pending litigation the
City has with Mr. Zeller and Mr. Greene. This is the case
where the City was sued related to the height limitation as
it applied to their property in ParkTowne. The court
entered a judgment last week resolving two of the four
issues in that suit. Making a determination that they do
indeed had vested rights, which was the position of the
council earlier this year when it adopted the resolution
that ParkTowne was one of the vested properties. There
still remains two additional issues that were raised in
that suit that have not received court determination. One
was whether the height amendment was legal and valid and
the other was whether or not Council had the ability to
grant that vesting status to begin with. Because the
plaintiffs have received what they wanted, which was a
court determination that they are vested, she pretty much
foresees that they will probably dismiss their remaining
claims. The City counterclaimed also asking the court to
make the determination that they had the legal authority to
pass that resolution. There is no point in continuing with
a lawsuit and incurring costs to make that point. Nobody
else is challenging the fact that they have that authority.
It was her recommendation that they settle those remaining
claims or dismiss them. They will dismiss theirs. They
got what they want. They are basically where they were the
night they passed the resolution saying they were vested
anyways from a legal standpoint. She thinks the owners
wanted to have that coming from a judge and now they have
it. She feels that case will go by the wayside.
City Attorney Ansay commented on the copy of the recent
complaint filed by ECARD that she provided to Council. She
recommended that she will be in touch and will meet with
each one of them individually if they have any questions
before the next meeting. They will be proces~ing it,
reviewing it, and getting read to prepare a response when
directed to do so by the court.
C. City Manager Williams
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City Manager Williams stated on October 15th he would be out
of town. They will need to move that scheduled Council
meeting or if Council so desires to have one for the month
of October they can do that.
Councilman Vincenzi felt they needed to reschedule it.
City Manager Williams informed him he could reschedule it
to October 22nd if that fits in the Council's schedule.
Councilman Vincenzi stated that would be fine with him.
Councilwoman Rhodes informed him she wouldn't be there for
the next meeting. It was okay to move the meeting to
October 2 2nd.
City Manager Williams reported that Ken Small would be
working with the departments on October 18th. He comes in
and does a presentation to the Council and citizens
regarding what he has found and what he suggests as
recommendations for revenue enhancement. They have been
trying to nail down whether or not he does that after
working with the department heads. If that is the case
they will move the Council meeting to a Thursday night, and
hold the meeting on October 18th. Otherwise they will have
the meeting on October 22nd.
Councilwoman Lichter asked how much that costs. City
Manager Williams informed her about $300. It's not a
significant amount of money in respect to what you get out
of it.
1) Tentative Agenda Items
There were no Tentative Agenda Items to be discussed at
this time.
11. CITIZEN COMMENTS
The following citizens spoke:
Bob Lott, 2112 S. Riverside Drive, stated he didn't know
who was responsible but he really appreciated the softer
seats. Councilwoman Rhodes stated insurance paid for those
and City Clerk Wadsworth picked them out.
Jim Sylvester, 2209 Orange Tree Drive, stated they only
have about ten days before the October 4th meeting held at
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o Q
the Fire Department to meet the candidates. He was
informed the meeting was October 3rd.
Mr. Sylvester stated the candidates are going to be elected
at the next election and are going to change the face of
this City as they know it. Two people will have the
opportunity to make tremendous impact on the direction this
City takes. He urged everyone to attend that meeting and
meet the candidates and find out where they are coming from
and what they are promising. When they promise something,
make them accountable for their promises.
Mr. Sylvester stated Councilman Vincenzi said City Manager
Williams needed a little work on dealing with the employees
and the department heads. He suggested if he turns down
the 3% raise, it would make him look like a hero to the
guys on the garbage trucks.
City Manager Williams stated he thinks that opens the door
for all of the management team, directors included, to sit
down at a round table discussion to discuss all of them
foregoing their raise this next fiscal year in an effort to
recognize all of their employees and that money be put back
in to a pot for recognition. He is willing to discuss that
with the department heads and see what they as a management
team will come up with.
Bill Glasser, 1703 Needle Palm Drive, stated he keeps
hearing these comments about making the City beautiful and
so forth. He thought they spent $220,000 out at 1-95 to
beautify the entrance to the City. He commented on the
Florida shores Truck Center not being very appealing. As
they develop that area he feels they should pay attention
to making it look better than a truck dump.
Mr. Glasser stated he spends a lot of time walking around
Florida Shores. As he walks along the Boulevard, he asked
who was responsible for maintenance of the Boulevard, such
as cleaning up the trash along the curbs and the grass
growing up through the sidewalks. If it is the State or
the County, what kind of dynamite does it take to get them
off their duff to clean it up and make it look a little
better.
Mr. Glasser asked who was responsible for mowing the City
right-of-way in front of vacant lots. Councilwoman Rhodes
informed him the City. Mr. Glasser stated for lots that
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have houses built on them, who is responsible for
maintaining the City right-of-way. Councilwoman Rhodes
informed him the City but they have no money. They are
asking homeowners to maintain it. Mr. Glasser stated he
has been doing the job for the City. He commented on a
property on Lime Tree Drive, north of the Boulevard, where
a lady lost her husband a year or so ago. At the corner of
her lot between her and the next house, there are weeds a
couple feet high, cardboard boxes and stuff like that in
there. He thought she couldn't cut the grass anymore and
asked if the City could clean it up since it is on City
property. Councilwoman Rhodes suggested Mr. Glasser
contact Code Enforcement.
Dave St. Mire, 1714 Juniper Drive, stated he didn't think
anybody in this City has had their constitutional rights
violated. The gentleman is old enough that he should first
hand remember who and what the Nazi's were, what they did
and how they ran their country. He doesn't think the City
is run by a bunch of Nazi's. For the man to sit there and
call the Councilor City a bunch of Nazi's that is
obnoxious, rude and uncalled for. He feels he owes the
Council and the City an apology for his behavior this
evening.
Mr. St. Mire commented on reading the paper where someone
in the room tonight has had their free attorney file a
lawsuit in District 7 against the city over this dumb piece
of property on the outside. He asked if anyone from ECARD
grew up in Edgewater and if they have lived in the City
over 20 or 40 years. How dare these people come into the
City for those of them that grew up here and tell them how
to run the City, how they should buy property or not buy
property, and what they should and should not develop. He
doesn't think they have the right to do that. They say the
people have spoken. The last he knew he thought the City
had a population of 22,000. Ten percent is the people?
It's not even a start. He is going to make it a personal
object to see if they can get the percentage rate raised to
majority so it takes more. If the people would take 10% of
the time they waste on something this frivolous, think of
what they could do for the good of this City and what they
could bring in.
Dot Carlson, 1714 Edgewater Drive, stated her ancestors got
here in the 1800's. She lived in Seminole County in
Sanford. She has been here twenty years plus. It is a
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nice place to live. She grew up in Seminole County. She
won't live there anymore. They used to have bears in
their backyard. This is a nice town and it still is and it
can be. They can grow at a rate they can afford. Not at
the rate of masses. She told them to give it their best
shot. She has had it all. She has had the lies,
deceptions, name-calling and she can take more.
Councilwoman Rogers informed the people that there is a
forum tomorrow at the FOP building on Mission Road at 7:00
p.m.
Mayor Thomas asked if it was open to the public. Chief
Taves stated it is to meet the candidates. Mayor Thomas
stated he doesn't know if it is open to the public.
Officer Blazi informed him it was not open to the public
and was only for the membership.
There was a brief discussion regarding this meeting not
being open to the public.
Gigi Bennington, 121 Virginia Street, stated the Chamber of
Commerce is going to be having a candidates forum to on
October 30th. She knows of two right now.
Mayor Thomas asked if the forum on the 3rd at the Fire Hall
was open to the public. Ms. Bennington informed him yes.
City Manager Williams recalled back on May 30, 2007 he
drafted a memo to Council based off of experiences and
conduct being displayed at the Council meetings
specifically relating to Res. 94-R-01, Section 5 - Rules of
Debate and Section 6 - Addressing the Council. He informed
the Council he could post it on the website just as a
reminder for the citizens that wish to come and make
presentations before the Council as a refresher and
reminder that they do have a resolution in place that
outlines the conduct that they should follow.
Mayor Thomas asked City Manager Williams if they want to
talk they should sign in and put down their topic.
City Manager Williams explained it addresses how to address
the Council and what manner they are to conduct themselves.
It is outlined in the resolution. It does not require any
signing in or anything of that nature.
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Councilwoman Rhodes doesn't feel it is going to stop any
name-calling. Mayor Thomas stated you have a freedom of
speech in the United States of America. He tries to
control that but when somebody already blurts something out
it makes it hard. He tries to handle it the best he can.
Councilwoman Lichter stated you have freedom of speech but
you can't yell fire in a theater if there is no fire. You
have freedom of speech up to a point. To be called a Nazi
to her is the most insulting thing in the world.
Councilwoman Rogers stated she could top that.
Councilwoman Lichter stated she wonders how far she could
take that with that man. She started this meeting by
asking if they could have a little decency and they are
called Nazi's. He moved here and he ought to move away
from here if he really doesn't like it. That is how she
has felt since day one. The worse City to live in. The
worst place to be. Then get the hell out of here.
12 . ADJOURNMENT
There being no further business to discuss, Mayor Thomas
adjourned the meeting. The meeting adjourned at 10:07 p.m.
Minutes submitted by:
Lisa Bloomer
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