10-20-2008 - Regular
CITY COUNCIL OF EDGEWATER
REGULAR MEETING
OCTOBER 20, 2008
7:00 P.M.
COMMUNITY CENTER
MINUTES
1. CALL TO ORDER
Mayor Thomas called the Regular Meeting to order at 7:00
p.m. in the Community Center.
ROLL CALL
Mayor Michael Thomas
Councilwoman Debra Rogers
Councilwoman Gigi Bennington
Councilwoman Harriet Rhodes
Councilman Ted Cooper
Acting City Manager Tracey Barlow
City Clerk Bonnie Wenzel
Assistant City Attorney Michael Ciocchetti
INVOCATION, PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE
Present
Present
Present
Present
Present
Present
Present
Present
There was a silent invocation and pledge of allegiance to
the Flag.
2 . APPROVAL OF MINUTES
A. Regular Meeting of September 8, 2008
Counci~woman Rhodes moved to approve the September 8, 2008
minutes, second by Counci~woman Bennington.
The MOTION CARRIED 5-0.
3. PRESENTATIONS/PROCLAMATIONS/PLAQUES/CERTIFICATES/DON
ATIONS
A. John McKinney, Finance Director - to give the
City's quarterly investment report
Finance Director John McKinney discussed the City's
investments and where we stand. In April the Council
passed an investment policy that had three key points to it
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Council Regular Meeting
October 20, 2008
and that was safety, liquidity and yield. He assured
Council and the public that we are completely safe in all
of our money. We haven't lost any of our total pool of
cash and/or investments and we have maintained a reasonable
rate of return over the past twelve months. In November
2007, the SBA with the State of Florida pretty much had a
collapse and due to that, the previous City Manager/Finance
Director did wisely move all of the money out of the SBA
they could and into our bank with Wachovia. Long term
strategy that might not be a wise thing to do but in the
past two months with the sub prime and the mortgage backed
securities that there has been a complete collapse and the
stock market has dropped 2,000 or 3,000 points. Some
cities that heavily invested in the mutual funds and stocks
have seen 33% declines in their investment pool. We have
not lost one dime. He referred to an Interoffice
Memorandum he did to Acting City Manager Barlow regarding
the FY2008 Fourth Quarter Investment Report. He referred
to Graph 1 and stated the Fed Funds rate has dipped down
from last year a high of 4.5% and they are now trading at
just over 1 1/2%. The SBA has maintained the last two
quarters a 2.43% rate of return. Wachovia has guaranteed
us a 1.85% rate of return. We could be earning a little
bit more money in the SBA but he went to a seminar with
Federated who is now running the SBA and they are urging
all local governments to come back to them now that they
have taken over and they are hoping to have everything
through the State of Florida and the regulatory pieces of
how they are to operate in place by the end of this year.
SBA has two pools, A & B. Pool A was heavily into the sub
prime market/mortgage market and we currently have $68,000
in there and we have been getting about $2,500 to $5,000
back every month. They are hoping to eliminate/terminate
Pool B by December. He then referred to Graph #2. He
pointed out 97% of our funds are currently residing within
Wachovia. They had at the end of 9/30/08 just shy of $10
million. On 10/1/08 he made $4.5 million in debt payments.
We are now roughly sitting on $5 million cash in the bank.
When November 30th rolls around and we get our first ad
valorem tax distribution, they will look into going back in
to the SBA with a laddered approach to earn a little bit
higher rate of return. We are completely safe in our
current cash reserves and balances.
Councilman Cooper questioned the money he was talking about
in the SBA being what they mandated that they couldn't draw
it all out and the $68,000 was what was left over. Mr.
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Council Regular Meeting
October 20, 2008
McKinney referred to Page 2, Table 1 with regard to the
Investment Allocations.
Councilman Cooper asked Mr. McKinney if the SBA has changed
some of their rules and regulations and put in more
safeguards. Mr. McKinney informed him prior to Federated
corning on board there was no oversight, rules or
regulations. He is limited to 20% on the mortgage-backed
securities. They could go to 100%. They purposefully have
safeguards in place on the maximum percentage they can
invest for that very reason. They had no committee
oversight they had to report to and there was no audit
being done by a second party, it was all internal.
Councilman Cooper asked Mr. McKinney if he was saying on a
move back with the money, new safeguards have been put in
and he imagined the government would be imposing even
stronger safeguards. Mr. McKinney referred to an excerpt
of an article that he feels fits Edgewater to a T. If they
go with SBA or Florida Safe, they are transferring money to
and from on a 30/90 day cycle. They are the ones that are
paid to have the strategies worked out on the rate of
return. If Wachovia can give us 1.85%, as long as we can
exceed that in today's market we are doing pretty good. A
month ago he was going to go out and buy all these
treasures and increase our year and now they are down to
trading at almost 1% on a one-year treasury. It doesn't
make sense to move from Wachovia at the present time.
Councilman Cooper stated with the volatility in the stock
market, it is going to bounce up and down for another month
or two. Mr. McKinney commented on government bonds being
worthless right now.
4. CITIZEN COMMENTS
The following citizens spoke:
Barb Herrin, 465 Wildwood Drive, New Smyrna Beach,
introduced herself as the new Chairperson for ECARD.
Dorothy Carlson was a good friend of hers and she asked her
to carryon her work. Richard Burgess is their new Vice
Chair. She brought to their attention the letter their
attorney delivered to them today and she asked that these
questions be investigated and placed on an agenda in the
very near future so they all can find out the answers to
the questions.
Page 3 of 38
Council Regular Meeting
October 20, 2008
David Mor~ey, 312 Shangri La Circle, representing Shangri
La Village Homeowners Association, confirmed they met with
Mr. Barlow and several City staff in Stormwater. They are
at the moment satisfied and will take his word that things
will move forward in that direction.
Mr. Morley further stated with improvements and increasing
traffic on u.s. #1 outside of their development, there is a
major traffic safety issue. They have closed the cut
through across from the old Regions Bank on Thomas Street.
That has completely disrupted traffic in that area. Last
week they contacted DOT in Deland and they have addressed
the initial part of their concerns. They had signage up
still showing the cut through existed and people have been
driving through there. He had copies of a reduction of the
traffic study. There was a 50-page traffic study presented
when EW was put in, which they didn't object to. This had
nothing to do with the business part. They need some sort
of traffic control between Indian River and Park to slow
down traffic and make a traffic break. They are taking a
position as a Homeowners Association with FDOT of what they
would prefer. They were wondering if the City Council had
plans or a preference on this so they aren't off chasing
something different than the Council is. They would like
to coordinate with the City and the City's best interest.
He knew they didn't have direct control or impact on them
but hopefully they will also listen to the City. They are
going to ask for a stacked light at Marion, Shangri La or
Turgot Avenue. One of those three needs a traffic light.
The traffic study supports it however the traffic study
they did and all the plans Edgewater approved were
contingent upon the Thomas Street cut remaining. By
removing the cut they are pushing up to 40 cars during rush
hour to their turn to U-turn. All the cars that used to go
to the car wash now have no place to go in or out of. They
are using Marion, which FDOT already classifies as an F
Level intersection, even before this. With the new traffic
that will be generated by the business park and the removal
of the Thomas cut, Marion is incredibly overloaded but a
lot of the traffic is being diverted to them and when the
bank opens their entrance will be overloaded. They were
asking for assistance or how the City plans to handle
traffic flow on u.S. #1. The traffic study documented u.S.
#1 is already at capacity. After this the traffic study is
at 99% of u.S. #1 passing them. Their intersection is only
rated a 0, with Thomas remaining in place. Mr. Morley
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Council Regular Meeting
October 20, 2008
asked them to make it an agenda item or consider it in the
future and direct to appropriate staff if they have it that
wants input on this before they go off on their own and
pursue an agenda that may not be in the best interest of
the whole City. They would like to work with the Council.
Acting City Manager Barlow brought the Mayor and Council up
to speed on some of these issues. He asked Mr. Morley for
a copy of the 50-page report in its entirety. Mr. Morley
informed him they paid for a copy from City Hall. The
Planning Department has the original. Acting City Manager
Barlow asked him if he was talking about the one that was
done at Turgot Avenue. Mr. Morley informed him it was for
EW Business Park.
Acting City Manager Barlow stated within the last six
months they had requested FDOT to do a study in an effort
to put a traffic light at Turgot Avenue. That study came
back and recommended it did not meet the qualifications for
a traffic light. He asked Council to give staff an
opportunity to go back in there and look at the traffic
study Mr. Morley was talking about. They will put together
if there is an opportunity for a tactic if the Council
wants to partner with local businesses or the residents in
that area. It is regarding the intersection cut through at
Thomas, which was closed off by FDOT unbeknownst to the
City that that plan was even in the works. It was
independent and separate from our approval. The permitting
requirement on that was totally FDOT.
Councilwoman Rogers stated Mr. Morley said at the very
beginning regarding the water issue that he presented to
Council and then she also presented to Council that they
have his word. She asked what his word means and what is
going to be done about the water situation on Shangri La
property.
Acting City Manager Barlow informed her he was going to
bring this up under his report. Councilwoman Rogers asked
if they could do it now so Mr. Morley didn't have to wait
until the end of the meeting. Mayor Thomas didn't have a
problem with that.
Acting City Manager Barlow stated he and staff with
Brenda's crew had met with Mr. Morley and other residents
last week to evaluate the situation. Their concerns were
that a neighboring commercial business, that water was
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Council Regular Meeting
October 20, 2008
spilling over into their subdivision. They evaluated the
situation and talked to the Vice President of the company
there and talked to them about some improvements they
request that they make to increase capacity in their
stormwater system. They also went into Shangri La and they
have discovered it is an old subdivision and they have had
stormwater issues in there for many years, since the mid
1980's. Tommy Smith, Stormwater Superintendent, has found
some areas in backyards and worked with the residents where
they have altered some of the conveyance and stormwater
flow.
Councilwoman Rogers stated she walked it and took pictures
and she didn't recall it was altered on the Shangri La
side, just on the G & W side. Acting City Manager Barlow
informed her it was altered on the Shangri La Side.
Acting City Manager Barlow stated Mr. Smith was in there
the next day and was able to evaluate Shangri La to find
out where the flows were stopping. One even had a portable
shed in what used to be the conveyance system. They have
even found one area where water was leaving Shangri La
going under the wall and going onto the G & W property. He
mentioned there being multiple different opportunities. He
has pledged to Mr. Smith as being a top priority is to work
with them and get them to make some corrections there and
they are working with G & W to make some corrections there.
He is pretty confident they can get a good handle on that
situation.
Councilwoman Rogers stated her biggest concern is that at
the rear end of the property the retention pond was
overflowing and the retention pond seemed awful small for
the amount of non-pervious concrete that was laid out. Did
anybody go back to the initial permit from St. Johns to see
if the retainage area was adequate for something that was
previously there but maybe something changed? She was
talking about G & W's retention. Shangri La's retention
pond was not overflowing, it was G & W's. Acting City
Manager Barlow stated it appears that G & W's retention
pond is probably the capacity, which was permitted for the
impervious surfaces there. Obviously they have drove on
some of those other areas and compacted some soils.
Councilwoman Rogers stated so they have not expanded any of
that drive from behind the building. She finds it strange
that from the road to the rear of the property that they
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Council Regular Meeting
October 20, 2008
had a concrete slab or asphalt from the road to the rear.
Acting City Manager Barlow informed her it appears to be
asphalt. Councilwoman Rogers asked if it was that way when
the initial retainage pond was permitted by St. Johns.
Acting City Manager Barlow informed her he had not dug that
deep into it. The objective was to correct the stormwater
and that issue and that is what they are doing. They are
creating capacity. Councilwoman Rogers asked what kind of
improvements are going to be done to help eliminate this
water issue on Shangri La. Acting City Manager Barlow
stated they are working with G & W to increase the
stormwater capacity within that one stormwater pond.
Councilwoman Rogers asked if they would be expanding the
retention pond. Acting City Manager Barlow informed her
they would be expanding the capacity. He wasn't sure if
they were going deep, wide or tall. Councilwoman Rogers
asked if they would be going back to St. Johns because they
can't just do that willfully. Don't they have to have
permits? Acting City Manager Barlow informed her there are
some minor modifications they can do before they trip the
St. Johns threshold and they have been compliant with that.
They are also going into Shangri La. The back part of that
you can drive the back of Shangri La and you can see that
the soil stays moist. It is close to the water table.
They certainly would not build a subdivision based on the
stormwater standards of that subdivision that was built
back in the late 1970's or early 1980's. We don't do those
anymore because we learned from history. You can stand at
the top of the drive coming into Shangri La and look down
the hill and Florida doesn't have many hills. They are
going to work with some of those. Mr. Smith was there the
next day and looked to see where the water had stopped
flowing. All of the neighbors they talked to that had
issues in their backyard seemed to be very appreciative.
Councilwoman Rogers wanted to hit upon the thoughts and
ideas she brought out at the last meeting. She felt the
retainage pond was not adequate and she suggested and is
now going to ask that the initial permit be pulled and they
see what conditions have changed from the time the initial
permit was pulled to what conditions are there now. On the
east side of the property where they have improved and they
have obviously brought in soil to bring up the elevation
and they brought in the rock, that created another water
problem for Shangri La. Did anybody look at any of that?
Acting City Manager Barlow stated they looked at all of it
and came up with solutions to fix both ends. It is going
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Council Regular Meeting
October 20, 2008
to take work on both sides. Councilwoman Rogers feels G &
W has done something that has encroached upon Shangri La.
She sees St. Johns not being contacted and Acting City
Manager Barlow is saying minor modifications can be done
and in all her years of dealing with St. Johns she never
knew they could just go out and do something and change
without going back to St. Johns unless the initial permit
ahs been pulled and if that hasn't been done how do they
know what minor modifications they can do. If they are
telling them to do it, that puts the City at liability.
Acting City Manager Barlow agreed to go back and do some
research and put that project on hold so they can dig
through that at Councilwoman Rogers' request.
Mayor Thomas stated he had several complaints from
businesses in the shopping plaza across from Shangri La
about the closure. He did some research and it is not our
street, it is DOT's street. He asked if they asked the
City's input. Development Services Director Darren Lear
stated that was the only way they could get the permit.
The only way they could get approval from the City was to
get a DOT permit.
Councilwoman Rhodes suggested that Acting City Manager
Barlow continue working on solutions to the problem as well
as doing what Councilwoman Rogers' is asking him to do. She
didn't think one necessarily eliminates the other one. She
feels it is important. We are getting into the season now
where it is hopefully not going to be as wet so maybe some
of those problems can be corrected before it becomes wet
rather than putting it off. Acting City Manager Barlow
stated he was just concerned of maybe some exposure he may
expose the City with St. Johns River Water Management. If
there are those concerns he can stop the project and start
that research and come back to Council.
Councilwoman Rogers stated she wouldn't stop it. Why would
you tell them to do something if you feel that they can
start doing something and it will start benefiting Shangri
La, by all means. She didn't like it when he mentioned
improvements and his word. Nowadays there are a lot of
promises made by our two previous City Managers and they
are dealing with it. They need to put something in writing
so they don't have this problem creeping up in the future.
The St. Johns River Water Management District permit needs
to be looked at. What was it initially permitted for? She
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Council Regular Meeting
October 20, 2008
feels something has changed since the initial permit was
pulled. Acting City Manager Barlow didn't want to alter
those if those suspicions are there until they can continue
that investigation.
Councilman Cooper agreed with Councilwoman Rhodes as far as
moving forwarding and remedy the problem for the residents
in Shangri La. They shouldn't slow that down in any
fashion or form. He asked Councilwoman Rogers if she
believes there mayor she wants to know if there was
something that was done after permitting or not with
permitting from G & W that they might have raised.
Councilwoman Rogers stated they definitely did on the east
side of the property. Her concern by just looking at it,
where the concrete is or asphalt from the road to the rear
behind the structures, it goes all the way to the rear and
she can't imagine that would have been permitted and
allowed because the retention pond is so small. She
believes they created more of a problem. She wasn't saying
don't do something to help Shangri La. Continue what you
are doing but let's not be short sighted and not look back
at the initial permit and see if something has happened
that needs to be justifiably fixed right now. We have a
lot of development corning into this City and if they don't
fix these little things how can they take on larger things.
Councilman Cooper commented on three months ago asking for
a study for DOT to put a traffic light at Turgot Avenue and
they kind of shot them right out of the water. He knows
there is a timeframe for doing a re-study. He asked Mr.
Morley if he would rather have the traffic light at Turgot
or if it was better for him for something to be done at
Shangri La Drive. Serving on the MPO and talking
constantly with the DOT people, his first thought was to go
back and say they just did a study and they closed off this
road, which makes their study fallible. Can we re-look at
that traffic light there again? He is trying to expediate
something. He wanted Mr. Morley's opinion. Mr. Morley
informed him they don't want to be counterproductive if the
City is pursuing an agenda. The study that was generated
there that they approved for EW Business Park but then the
study did not project the closing of Thomas, he feels the
best odds are that FDOT will have to agree to a traffic
control of some sort at Marion, even though they would
prefer it at Turgot or Shangri La. He further commented on
Marion being an F intersection so it is already deficient.
Everything else is pushing what they consider deficient at
Page 9 of 38
Council Regular Meeting
October 20, 2008
99% capacity. It is already over capacity because people
coming out of Marion can not safely get out of Marion and
cross u.s. #1. That is what the study shows. By diverting
all the Thomas cut through detours to Marion, those people
are never going to get out of Marion. There are 46 in one
hour trying to exit left turn and cross the Marion cut
through to go northbound in the peak hour. They are going
to divert about 50 more cars an hour to left turn down
there so they are going to have several hundred cars trying
to turn at Marion. It does not meet their classification.
They don't really care. Anything will be a traffic break.
If the City has a preference, he would think they would
want Turgot. Councilman Cooper informed him they went
after Turgot because of the functions back there and
knowing that is going to get busier. It also breaks up
U.S. #1 to get to Indian River Boulevard. Mr. Morley feels
their best approach might be Marion because it is a
deficient intersection and the study this year proves it.
They approved those plans knowing that was a deficient,
dangerous intersection and it is only going to get worse
once the new bank opens and now that they have closed
Thomas, all of the snowbirds that have come back do not
know that Thomas cut is closed and every day cars are
cutting through there and they have not marked it as not a
cut through. They are riding through the sod and getting
stuck out there. Councilman Cooper commented on it being
summer when they had the survey done and the snowbirds not
being here.
Mayor Thomas stated they have to have a traffic survey
through DOT. Mr. Morley informed him that they said they
will but they don't want to be counterproductive with the
City. DOT has started calling them but they don't want to
step on the City's toes. They would like to work with the
City. They feel the City working with them will have
better success.
Councilwoman Bennington stated before they go pointing
fingers at anybody violating any codes or doing something
they shouldn't have done, they need to make sure. Talk
about putting us at liability. By publicly accusing a
company of doing something that maybe they had the right to
do. Councilwoman Rogers stated she wasn't publicly
accusing. She informed Councilwoman Bennington she could
walk out there and look at it. If you want to go toe to
toe, walk out there and look at it. She didn't take the
time to and they received letters well in advance.
Page 10 of 38
Council Regular Meeting
October 20, 2008
Councilwoman Bennington stated they just needed to be
careful. She wasn't saying they did or didn't but they
need to make sure that they know what they are talking
about before they do that. Councilwoman Rogers informed
her she does.
Councilwoman Bennington told the Shangri La Homeowners
Association that she really appreciated them coming up with
this and being willing to work with the City. They realize
they need a traffic light. She hoped the City would be
more than happy to work with them. She believes the City
should be working with the Homeowners Association and the
City should be working with the Homeowners Association. She
hopes they can resolve their stormwater issues to
everybody's satisfaction without any accusations to anyone.
Bi~~ G~aser, 1703 Needle Palm Drive, stated back when they
were discussing the utility rate increase he forgot to ask
a question or bring to their attention under the sewer
fees, it said $350 per gallon. He was quite apprehensive
when he got his utility bill but he realized his sewer
hadn't gone up to $17,000 so he assumed they meant $3.50
per $1,00 gallons for the sewage. It was on Page 5 of the
Resolution. He assumed some eagle eye proofreader had
already found that error.
Mr. Glaser asked if anybody knew anything about PAC's.
have a new PAC in Edgewater, Political Action Committee
they aren't registered with the Department of Elections in
Tallahassee. He asked if anyone knew why not.
We
and
Mr. Glaser asked what union was representing our
firefighters. Acting City Manager Barlow informed him the
International Association of Firefighters. Mr. Glaser
asked if it was IAFF. Acting City Manager Barlow informed
him that was the acronym.
Mr. Glaser stated he has seen some signs, Firefighters for
Obama, so he wanted to make sure before he no longer made
his contributions.
Vernon R~, 219 Shangri La Drive, wanted to comment on Mr.
Morley's suggestion for u.S. #1. That they would do
everything possible to work with them to see what they can
do to get a traffic light up there. It would really be
appreciated. He asked to be kept posted.
Page 11 of 38
Council Regular Meeting
October 20, 2008
Acting City Manager Barlow agreed to work with Mr. Morley
on that. He will put that report together with the most
recent one that FDOT did. City staff is committed too.
They agree Marion or Turgot would be two of the most ideal
locations to break up that traffic.
Domdnic Capria, 606 Topside Circle, stated when they got
the raises in the Enterprise Fund he was led to believe and
he still believes that the stormwater was going to raise
16%. He is only talking about pennies but it is the
principle. He figured it out to be 16.66%, not 16%.
Mr. Capria stated the Finance Director did a great job so
they have got $5 million cash in the bank and it was
discussed a month ago with Mr. Barlow. He feels if they
have that kind of money in the bank which is great and
wonderful but why did the millage rate go up so high. Why
couldn't they use some of that money to keep the millage
rate lower?
Finance Director John McKinney stated they are required by
the Water & Sewer bonds to hold $1.2 million in cash
reserves for a rainy day. They have $1.9 million required
for the General Fund and when you take into account the
special revenue funds, when it comes down to it on a $36
million budget annually, to have $5 million at 9/30, that's
not a whole lot. Not when they consider they put $110,000
just in salaries every two weeks, plus pennies, plus the
$1.6 million they put in the pension. We are down to $3.2
million right now.
Mr. Capria stated it seems like they have to do something
about that.
Mr. Capria then stated Restoration cannot be done to
conformity with the dwelling units per 20 acres and thus
Hammock Creek would be forced to abandon development. They
knew this when they started this. Why are they complaining
now? It's a little late isn't it? We are voting for this
and voting for that. The City is against them so they are
against the City. It just doesn't make sense.
Caro~ Ann Stoughton, 2740 Evergreen Drive, stated she
didn't know if the Council saw the letter from the City of
New Smyrna Beach dated October 15th from Mark Rakowski,
Development Services Director. His certain concerns were
Page 12 of 38
Council Regular Meeting
October 20, 2008
our watershed, the floodplain development, needs analysis,
transportation and potable water. Yet you people decided
you are all going to work together. Sad to say, as these
poor people with their water problems, the City has to
continually pay for and spend taxpayers' dollars to rectify
problems that builders and developers leave. She asked for
a public records request. Mr. Hooper who was our City
Manager, who was part of Professional Engineering, who
really wasn't our City Manager but they paid him through a
company. She saw he was still getting paid for projects as
late as 2008 as $39,000. She can't understand who paid for
the new brochure. It's a group called a Vision Group. She
hoped they didn't pay for it. She also has two letters
that appeared in the Vision book and where it is told that
if this development goes through we will need another
Police Department and Fire Department equal to what we have
here. She thinks they need Acting City Manager Barlow back
as Fire Chief and they should be hiring a City Manager who
is not connected in any way to any developer and see that
our City is running properly. Not people that run around
to secret meetings, of which she has many pictures, in
favor of the developer. She thinks they should start
looking for a City Manager. She thinks they should know
how much the City has paid the City Attorney to fight
against our citizens and charge the taxpayers. It is a sad
state of affairs when the City is pushing something when
the people didn't want it.
5. CITY COUNCIL REPORTS
Councilman Cooper stated all of his committees have been
canceled or postponed until later in the month. They had a
4 ~ hour workshop on October 15th with the MPO as far as
long range planning, looking at things for 2035. All of
the cities and their representatives were there. There
was great give and take. Universities were there pushing
their models on how it is determined. He suggested people
check out the MPO's website and review some of this. There
was a lot of discussion about road improvements, light rail
and things of that nature. These are all things that will
affect us all in the next 20 or 30 years.
Councilwoman Rogers stated she is taken back by a letter
from Leslie Blackner. It is dated the 19th. She asked when
they got it? Acting City Manager Barlow believed it was at
9:30 this morning bye-mail. Councilwoman Rogers stated
that was a lot for them to digest and to be giving them
Page 13 of 38
Council Regular Meeting
October 20, 2008
tonight. She suggested if they ever get anything like
that, that the Council be notified about these types of
letters rather than seeing all of this stuff given to them
the night of a Council meeting.
Acting City Manager Barlow stated as soon as it was brought
to his attention, it was turned over to the attorney as
well. She is researching the authenticity of some of the
exhibits, the validity and the accuracy of some of the
accusations in there. It is way premature for anybody to
make a comment regarding any of that. He thinks based on a
59 page document, he thinks it would be a pretty aggressive
assumption to think the attorney could do the research and
be here tonight to make that presentation for that.
Councilwoman Rogers stated her big concern is the timing of
this because they are going to be going over some items
regarding Restorations later tonight and this letter is
very serious. She just glanced at it and hit a few things
and it is enough for her to take a hard swallow.
Acting City Manager Barlow cautioned her jumping
conclusions based on what she is seeing on that.
Attorney is doing the research for the Council.
be back with a report on this.
into
The
She will
Councilwoman Rogers asked Acting City Manager Barlow if he
would be going over any of this due to there being
allegations about her as well. She saw where she was
billing us and we are billing Restorations. She didn't
understand why we are billing Restorations and why she
isn't billing Restorations. Acting City Manager Barlow
informed her absolutely not. He wasn't sure that was an
accurate statement in there. He wasn't going to put any
credibility into that. Carolyn is reviewing it and is
going to go over it with Council. He is going to review it
as well. His schedule didn't permit him an opportunity to
read it.
Councilwoman Rogers asked what the time frame was going to
be. They need to respond to this. If any of the
allegations are truthful they need to do something
immediately. Acting City Manager Barlow informed her they
would have plenty of time for City Attorney Ansay to
respond to that for them prior to a development order being
issued.
Page 14 of 38
Council Regular Meeting
October 20, 2008
Councilwoman Rogers informed him she wasn't concerned with
a development order. She was concerned that the City is
paying for bills for somebody else and it isn't like the
City has all this money. You can see what is happening to
our reserve.
Councilwoman Bennington informed Councilwoman Rogers she
was bringing up something she just glanced at.
Councilwoman Rogers stated she was glancing at it and it
was her time to ask a question. She told Councilwoman
Bennington not to go personal. She didn't want to go there
wi th her.
Acting City Manager Barlow stated he spoke to City Attorney
Ansay this morning when they received it and she is
researching the authenticity of the exhibits and the
validity of the allegations.
Councilwoman Rogers asked if they could speed it up rather
than wait for the development order. Acting City Manager
Barlow informed her it was a priority for City Attorney
Ansay and that she also didn't receive it until 9:30 this
morning. She understands the urgency.
Councilwoman Bennington had nothing at this time.
Councilwoman Rhodes had nothing at this time.
Mayor Thomas stated he was requested to attend the
Commission meeting of New Smyrna last Tuesday night. He
really fought with a decision by crossing lines with
another municipality. Upon the Council's consensus at one
of the meetings about working together, he went before the
Commission and said he wasn't pro or con. He informed them
if they had reservations and the City of Edgewater has
reservations that they didn't mind sitting down at the
table with them and working everything out. They voted
unanimously to sit down at the table with them and work
everything out.
Mayor Thomas then reported that he attended the WAV meeting
on Wednesday morning. He then passed around stickers. He
also mentioned being able to request more on WAV's website.
They also voted to spend $10,000 on rain barrels from
approved dealers. He spoke about giving out $20 vouchers.
WAV wants to be very proactive in water conservation.
Page 15 of 38
Council Regular Meeting
October 20, 2008
Their Executive Director is going around to schools giving
demonstrations and presentations to the school children
about water conservation. It's hard to change our ways.
We are water wasters. If they can teach the children how
to conserve water, he feels that is a very proactive
stance.
Mayor Thomas reported on attending the Mayor's meeting
today where they discussed problems within the cities.
Councilwoman Bennington reminded him he also went to the
Hob Nob.
Councilwoman Bennington stated the Hob Nob was sponsored by
the Chamber and the candidates got up and gave ten minute
dissertations. It was very interesting.
6. CONSENT AGENDA
A. Professional Services Contracts for Surveyors -
Addendum #1 (Extending the term for one year)
B. Approval to piggyback on the Orange City
bid/contract for gasoline and diesel fuel to use
Exum Energy Inc., for the purchase of gasoline
and diesel fuel
Acting City Manager Barlow made a staff presentation
regarding Items A & B of the Consent Agenda.
Council woman Rhodes moved to accept the Cons en t Agenda,
second by Councilwoman Bennington.
The MOTION CARRIED 5-0.
7. PUBLIC HEARINGS, ORDINANCES AND RESOLUTIONS
A. Edgewater United Methodist Church requesting a
Special Activity Permit for the Christmas Under
the Palms event to be held on December 13, 2008,
at 211 N. Ridgewood Avenue
Acting City Manager Barlow made a staff presentation.
Due to there being no comments, Mayor Thomas opened and
closed the public hearing.
Page 16 of 38
Council Regular Meeting
October 20, 2008
Councilwoman Bennington moved to grant the Special Activity
Permi t, second by Council woman Rogers.
The MOTION CARRIED 5-0.
B. Light of Calvary Church, requesting a Special
Activity Permit for a Fall Festival to be held on
November 22, 2008 at 2140 N. Ridgewood Avenue
Acting City Manager Barlow pointed out that the address was
not correct. The address was 2140 S. Riverside Drive.
This will be the first time for this organization to have a
Special Activity.
Mayor Thomas asked about traffic problems on Riverside
Drive. Acting City Manager Barlow didn't think there would
be any due to not anticipating this being an extremely
large event. It will be monitored. If they request
additional permits in the future then they can address some
of those things.
Councilwoman Bennington asked about the amusement rides.
Development Services Director Darren Lear informed her it
was mostly bounce houses and inflatable slides.
Councilwoman Bennington moved to grant the Special Activity
Permit, second by Councilman Cooper.
The MOTION CARRIED 5-0.
8. BOARD APPOINTMENTS
There were no Board Appointments at this time.
9. OTHER BUSINESS
A. Ratification of the Coastal Florida Public
Employees Association Agreement (General
Employees Union Contract)
Acting City Manager Barlow made a staff presentation. The
only change to the agreement from last year is the
employees will receive an additional floating holiday.
The other change is the 3% wage increase.
Councilman Cooper asked if anyone was present from the PEA.
Mayor Thomas informed him Tyna Hilton was present.
Page 17 of 38
Council Regular Meeting
October 20, 2008
~a Hi~ton, PEA Representative, explained the Union wanted
to do the minimum but also protect the employees. The 3%
was what was budgeted so that is what they went with. She
further explained the extra day is a give and take type of
a thing.
Councilman Cooper thanked Personnel Director Donna Looney
for her help with this and expressed his appreciation for
this being a relatively easy one to pass and go forward
with.
Ms. Hilton wanted to thank the guys.
Councilwoman Bennington agreed with Councilman Cooper and
expressed her appreciation for their willingness to go
through with this as fast and as relatively painless as it
was.
Due to there being no further comment, Mayor Thomas
entertained a motion.
Councilman Cooper moved to approve the Coasta~ F~orida
Pub~ic Emp~oyees Association Agreement for fisca~ year
2008-2009, second by Counci~woman Rogers.
The MOTION CARRIED 5-0.
B. Review of draft Vision Plan as obtained from the
two Community Visioning Workshops
Acting City Manager Barlow briefly commented on the draft
Vision Plan that everybody in the City was invited to
participate in. Many in the audience participated and he
appreciated everybody's effort towards the draft product.
The goal is for them to walk through where we are in some
of the draft and some of the findings from the workshops.
At the December 8th meeting they will present a completed
Vision Book for the City of Edgewater, which will allow
staff, once it is adopted, to actually start to put plans
together going forward as it relates to future zoning
areas.
Acting City Manager Barlow then turned the presentation
over to Greg Witherspoon & Chelsea Seifert from Canin
Associates.
Page 18 of 38
Council Regular Meeting
October 20, 2008
Greg Witherspoon, Canin Associates, commented on the two
workshops that were held. He walked through the plan by
highlighting some of the items such as defining a main
street, creating access to the river, historic buildings,
inclusion of a new community park along the main street,
creating some gateway features at u.s. #1 and Park Avenue.
They are looking at getting revisions and reworking the
plan per any comments in preparation for the December 8th
meeting.
Councilman Cooper stated so far all of the visioning and
the multiple meetings they have had and all of the drawings
they have done, has it cost the City any money at this
stage? Mr. Witherspoon didn't believe it had. Acting City
Manager Barlow confirmed it had not. Councilwoman Rhodes
commented on paying for pizza. Acting City Manager
confirmed they paid for pizza, donuts and sandwiches.
Councilman Cooper stated it has been no cost to the City
and this visioning project was attended and meant for the
residents and the Council to have some input at different
looks. U.S #1 offers a whole new look to property. As
they look today they have for sale signs allover it. Some
of these things they have to start planning for and start
saving money for to be able to have any of that stuff come
to fruition.
Mr. Witherspoon stated this is a Vision Plan. This is an
idea of what could happen. The issues they would have to
tackle as citizens and City staff aren't solved by saying
this is the vision we want to go forward with. There is a
lot of work that still has to be done to create an
effective implementation plan to realize this vision well
into the future.
Acting City Manager Barlow commented on one of the goals of
staff being once they get direction from Council this is
where they want to go. One of the first steps on staff's
part would be to start to do a u.s. #1 overlay. He then
referred to the overlay on SR 442.
Councilman Cooper solicited the newspapers to get as much
information out to the citizens as possible so the website
can be looked upon by our 22,000 citizens and maybe get
some more input so they see they are trying to do their
darndest to long range plan for some things and now is the
time to offer changes and offer different ideas or solicit
Page 19 of 38
Council Regular Meeting
October 20, 2008
the comments from the citizens that were at the meetings
and the input that was determined during those meetings.
He feels it would be a great thing if the newspapers could
help them out.
Acting City Manager Barlow stated this is a 20-year plan.
This plan will stay dynamic and will continue to massage it
as time goes on.
Councilwoman Rogers referred to Item 7, an amenity for all
and where they indicate that the park must be redesigned to
allow greater use and then they go on to say not just the
boating community and they explain it is going to be a
large shaded, public green and exterior boardwalk with boat
docking capability. She commented on buildings and a lot
of green on the drawings as well as where boats could pull
up along the seawall where they have a wooden walkway on
the perimeter. She asked where the boat docking facility
would be since this is indicating that it will have boat-
docking capability. She asked where they would be
launching the boats from? They obviously won't be
launching it from there. On the website it indicated they
are planning on making the boat launching facility or
leaning towards it in the 20 years, that it would be then
at Menard May Park. Menard May Park is used by a large
majority of citizens of this City in ways this park can't
be used currently and it wouldn't be used in the future
because there are people that go there and swim and fish
and they pull up and park and it is a shallow park. Along
the perimeter of the park it is very shallow. It is not
conducive of becoming a boat launching facility. They must
have something else in mind.
Mr. Witherspoon stated as part of the vision sessions they
had on the last day, that was a big issue and in fact there
was quite a bit of discussion. He didn't believe there was
a final resolution on how to fully achieve the vision from
a boat ramp standpoint. There was discussion of Menard May
Park. There was discussion of another potential site
further down the river.
Councilwoman Rogers stated Menard May Park is listed as
number one on the website. She has a personal interest.
She lives across from Menard May Park and she owns the
property on the south end of it. There are also deeds and
covenants that run with that land where nothing can be
built over three feet and there is more.
Page 20 of 38
Council Regular Meeting
October 20, 2008
Councilwoman Rhodes felt everybody agreed at that meeting
that there needs to be a boat ramp. Menard May Park was
mentioned as an alternative source and Councilwoman Rogers
has some valid points but all of those things could be
worked out. Councilwoman Rogers was concerned because it
was listed as number one.
Councilwoman Rhodes informed her on that day it was number
one but that doesn't mean it has to stay number one until
the end of time. It was number one of a list of many that
they discussed that day.
Acting City Manager Barlow stated the Comprehensive Plan
dictates so many launching ramps along with parking spots.
He further commented on opportunities down the river that
they can discuss between now and 20 years from now.
Mayor Thomas felt this was very similar to a dream. They
have to have money to make those things happen.
Councilwoman Rogers stated when it says that it will have
boat-docking capability when they are going to have
launching they need to have parking. Right now there is
parking available for the park across the street. They
need to have something this size and Menard May is not even
close to it.
Councilman Cooper stated it is a visioning and they want to
solicit citizens' comments as well as Council comments.
They knew the boat launch was very important to Edgewater
and didn't want it to go away. They knew they had to
reposition it if they were to look at the park activity at
Kennedy Park. They have to plan ahead and move forward.
They don't want to get rid of the boat launching. Most of
our industry here is boats.
Mr. Witherspoon commented on the need to have an overall
Parks and Recreation Master Plan. One of the first things
that is a potential next step is for the city to actually
engage upon that type of activity and when they think about
a Parks and Recreation Master Plan, a true needs assessment
and evaluation of different potential sites and all of
those kinds of issues associated with a boat ramp should
absolutely be a part that.
Page 21 of 38
Council Regular Meeting
October 20, 2008
Acting City Manager Barlow commented on this being a draft.
They can certainly take Menard May Park out of the final
book and leave generic language that other locations will
be evaluated for a boat launch.
Councilwoman Rogers stated most of Kennedy Park is the boat
launch and the boat parking. Acting City Manager Barlow
stated the consensus that participated in the vision is
they didn't want that to be a boat launch. They want that
to be a park. The Comp Plan says the City still has to
have so many ramps and so many parking spots. They don't
have anything that says they have to be at that location.
Councilwoman Rhodes felt they did a really good job of
listening to what they said and coming up with the Vision
Plan. This says what everybody said at that meeting. They
did a really good job conceptualizing what was said. They
did what the City asked them to do.
Mayor Thomas did a poll and asked how many were at the
visioning session, how many liked the concept and how many
did not like the concept. The results were about even for
who liked or didn't like the concept.
Councilwoman Rogers stated ultimately it's what can be done
at Menard May and what cannot be and that can't be done at
Menard May so oh well. Councilwoman Rhodes stated Menard
May may never even enter the picture. This has nothing to
do with Menard May. Councilwoman Rogers stated there
aren't too many other places on Riverside Drive where they
could put in a boat launch.
Mayor Thomas asked for citizen comment.
The following citizens spoke:
Caro~ Ann Stoughton, 2740 Evergreen Drive, stated she
didn't know who paid for this. They had a project called
ParkTowne Industrial Park that we are still in debt by
another City Manager. It's nice to have a vision. She
doesn't care for the contact person, our City Manager. She
didn't know who this man was or who he represents. She
thought he represented Mr. Canin. She checked and went to
Park and they aren't too happy with Canin Associates there.
She saw in a vision project the City of Stewart. She
called the County and the City. They never did any work
there. They bid on a job and Villa Construction got the
Page 22 of 38
Council Regular Meeting
October 20, 2008
job. Circuit City had a vision too and today they are
closing down 160 stores. A vision is great if the City and
taxpayers do not have to pay for it. She has a $25,000
paid for Ford Hybrid. She would like a Cadillac. She
feels this is way out of line. You can't park behind City
Hall. It all looks cute but she feels Restoration is
behind this.
John Tay~or, 2529 Silver Palm Drive, stated he is a boater
and he has used this ramp for years. He is aware of Menard
May Park. His concern is it is too shallow. It seems like
a huge waste of money to try to dig out or build another
boat ramp when you have one that works. He feels the money
would be much better spent redoing what we have. He thinks
outside of that, the mainland side of it looks fine but he
thinks it is just a waste of time and money to try to
create something that we already have. He thinks this
works fine and needs a little bit of prettying up.
Spending taxpayer money to reinvent something somewhere
else that is already there that works fine is kind of the
definition of insanity to him.
Councilwoman Bennington commented on being in the process
right now of prettying up Kennedy Park and making it more
accessible for the boats.
John Cordeiro, Pine Tree Drive, stated he understood Don
Mears from Restoration was financing this vision project
and paying all these people. He asked if he is going to
pay for all of the construction or are the taxpayers going
to pay for it.
~ke Visconti, 316 Pine Breeze Drive, stated when they had
the two meetings for the vision, in the audience they had
75 people at the first meeting and they had 32 people at
the second meeting. It was advertised for months by the
City Manager. Where were the people? The people didn't
show up. He commented on the people trying to envision
Edgewater in the future. Edgewater needs a main street,
something for Edgewater that we haven't got. This is going
to take place as a 20-year project anyways. Some of them
won't be here but the vision is for the future of our
children, grandchildren and the future is for Edgewater.
Edgewater does need some sort of a main street. We haven't
got anything right now. He commented on there being a lack
of participation at the meetings but as soon as something
Page 23 of 38
Council Regular Meeting
October 20, 2008
comes up they have this negative attitude. The people
speak they say and the people have spoken.
Jack Hayman, 3003 Travelers Palm Drive, County Councilman,
asked who paid for the study. Acting City Manager Barlow
stated it was disclosed when they entered into the
agreement and at the beginning of both workshops.
Restorations sponsored half of it and the second half was
the Central Florida Sustainable Communities Initiative,
which is backed by Canin Associates.
County Councilman Hayman stated the community needed to
know this. He brings it up because it is an important
point. They have had several people speak to the question
of who is doing this and they suspect that there is an
ulterior motive. During the time he was Mayor they were
interested in bringing Barnett Bank into the community. He
was designated as the person to call on Barnett Bank and
try to encourage them to come down and look at our City and
listen to the deal we had for them and it was a good deal.
They made their trip down and they called him and asked him
to come up and have lunch. He went to Daytona and they had
lunch and they said they liked the City but that we had a
terrible looking u.S. #1. They told him if he straightened
out u.S. #1 they would build a bank. They showed him
pictures of three derelict buildings that were north of
here. Then they showed him some other buildings further
south that were derelict. They showed him some unsightly
things. His colleagues on the Council at the time said
they had to take down those buildings and they did. Then
they filed the liens on the property and the property
owners had to satisfy those liens. There were some in
Florida Shores they did the same thing. He commented on
seeing a lot of banks coming into Edgewater now. They
smell money and they smell success. They have to have a
vision to know where they are going to go. They need a
vision because the State legislature back in 2005 told all
of them through Florida Chapter 163 that they enacted that
says they want sustainable communities in this State. They
also want to preserve and protect the rural area and they
don't want any more sprawl. They are saying the cities and
counties need to work together to redevelop the cities. He
commented on the new infrastructure that was put into the
City when he served as Mayor a decade ago. He commented on
forty and fifty year old infrastructure that was in place a
decade ago that still has not been replaced. They have
Page 24 of 38
Council Regular Meeting
October 20, 2008
relined the sewer lines, he didn't know how many times on
the north and east end of the town.
Mayor Thomas informed Ms. Stoughton if she interrupted one
more time that he would send her from the meeting. Ms.
Stoughton informed County Councilman Hayman that is three
minutes were up. Mayor Thomas informed her he was running
the meeting not her.
County Councilman Hayman agreed to summarize. He then
commented on boat launching. Volusia County as well as the
Port Authority and Inland Navigation District have invested
heavily on boat launch sites here. Before they tear one
out they need to talk to those people. They don't take
kindly to having taxpayer money tore up. The idea of
reinventing the City and creating a central City is an
important idea. That is what the State is driving us to
and that is what they are telling them they are going to
have to do. How do you pay for it? Tax Increment
Financing. It is a partnership between the counties and
the cities. The County helps the City reinvent and
recreate the infrastructure. If there is one thing he must
criticize this rendering for. He doesn't see people on
bicycles. He sees parking spots and asphalt and pavement.
They need to get rid of that and convert that to places
where people have bicycles. If they could cut the parking
area in half and create additional space for people to live
and recreate, what would they have? A much better town and
they would accommodate more people and it would be just as
comfortable as it is now.
Acting City Manager Barlow further commented on who funded
this being disclosed. It's not a new concept to Edgewater.
He commented on three local businesses donating $15,000 for
the fireworks show. It is nothing unusual to partner with
local businesses or other entities. This is just the tip
of the iceberg. This is just starting the process. There
is a lot of work to be done. He then commented on the u.S.
#1 overlay, which is going to take consultants and
facilitators. He plans on bringing in all the property
owners on u.S. #1 and help us help crop the overlay on
U.S.# 1. That is going to take facilitators too. He is
open to suggestions.
Councilwoman Rhodes stated she knows they didn't pay for it
and she knows they don't have to do it. They aren't
obligated to put this into practice. She feels they need a
Page 25 of 38
Council Regular Meeting
October 20, 2008
vision. They need a long-range plan. Now we have one.
She suggested if they have a place to put their focus then
they can put their resources into making that come true.
Mayor Thomas stated even though they can't complete the
full dream they may be able to complete half the dream. He
is very pleased at the proactive stance that Acting City
Manager Barlow has taken on the direction.
Domdnic Capria, 606 Topside Circle, stated he would be real
fast because he knew he would only be given three minutes.
He isn't going to get more than three and he respects Mr.
Hayman. If he goes over three minutes he is told sit down.
Mayor Thomas informed him if he had the experience County
Councilman Hayman had then he would listen to Mr. Capria
too. Mr. Capria agreed with him 100%. He feels three
minutes is three minutes and he doesn't care who it is.
Mr. Capria commented on Mr. Visconti's comment regarding
being negative. Sure it is negative. Why shouldn't it be
negative? They come here meeting after meeting after
meeting. Like he has said before. People can get up and
they listen to them. Some of them will get up and they
pretend to listen to them but they do not. Carol Stoughton
just got up and asked a question and wanted an answer and
did not get it. Mr. Hayman gets up and he respects him and
asks the same question and he gets an answer.
Dave Ross, 2803 Needle Palm Drive, stated this is a vision
for downtown area, this is not an Edgewater vision as it is
titled. They don't know what is going to happen between
the south end of that and the city limits of Oak Hill.
What is your vision for the riverbank all the way from here
to the Oak Hill city limits? What is your vision for south
U.S. #1 all the way to the Interstate? That is Edgewater
folks. This is just a tiny little part of Edgewater.
Don't call it an Edgewater vision. It's not. What's your
vision for the rest of the acreage out where they are going
to build little Miami? He doesn't hear anybody talking
about an Edgewater vision. Call this what it is. A
downtown. Will it accommodate 75,000 to 100,000 people?
That is what the expected population is to be in the City
of Edgewater within twenty or twenty-five years.
Mayor Thomas asked Mr. Ross if he attended the Visioning
Session. Mr. Ross informed him no. Mayor Thomas commented
Page 26 of 38
Council Regular Meeting
October 20, 2008
on the map they had at the Visioning Session of the entire
City limits and they put the problem spots and the visions
on the entire City limits. This is just one little piece.
Chelsea Seifert, Canin Associates, commented on the
Preference Mapping exercise they did at the first Vision
Workshop and why they focused on this area.
Mr. Ross stated he wasn't criticizing this. He asked if
they were going to bring the City of Edgewater Vision to
the Council for comments in a public hearing. Acting City
Manager Barlow commented on out of the two workshops they
ran out of steam just on this area. His goal is if they
end up getting enough sponsorship and time and
participation he would like to see the whole City of
Edgewater vision but that is many hours of work.
Mr. Ross stated his only criticism of this, and he isn't
for it or against it, that it says Vision Edgewater. It's
not. It is Vision Downtown Edgewater. He feels that needs
to be made public too.
Mr. Visconti stated he came into this City fifteen years
ago and when he came into this City on u.S. #1, Mr. Hayman
just talked about how u.S. #1 as at the time. It was a
mess. He joined the Beautification Committee and his
vision was u.S. #1 had to be beautified. Mayor Hayman at
the time, Mr. Visconti brought in a tape that took 45
minutes for that tape to show Edgewater what u.S. #1 looked
like and what south of Daytona looked like. If they didn't
have that vision at that time u.S. #1 would have still been
fifteen years ago. Not only did they beautify u.S. #1,
they also beautified SR 442, even though it was enlarged
they appropriated the money for the Department of
Transportation and got $225,000 and beautified SR 442.
They still want to beautify u.S. #1 but the funds are not
there. They can't do it. They can't plant the trees
because they have to be a certain size. They have to go to
the Department of Transportation and get their okay. In
the past five years, u.S. #1 has stayed just the way it was
five years ago when they beautified it.
Mayor Thomas was getting ready to let Mr. Capria know he
had already spoken and Mr. Capria informed him Mr. Visconti
got up twice. Mayor Thomas apologized. Mr. Capria
informed him not to be sorry. He wouldn't have gotten up
if he didn't. He is only going to be 30 seconds as usual.
Page 27 of 38
Council Regular Meeting
October 20, 2008
He respects Mr. Visconti even though they are on opposite
sides of the fence. They didn't used to be but somehow he
got closer to the people that are against what they are
trying to do. He wished Mr. Visconti a lot of luck. He
heard through the grapevine that he is moving out of
Edgewater. He told Mr. Visconti to tell the Council. Mr.
Visconti informed him they already knew.
Richard Burgess, 2724 Juniper Drive, stated it looks like a
nice vision but the bigger problems the City faces
overshadow how happy they should be about something like
this. We are about to take our town and double its size
and increase the amount of services that we provide, the
cost of providing those services, the cost of Fire, Police,
water, sewer, drainage, etc. What inevitably happens
through expansion and growth like that is you get caught up
with an inability to predict the actual cost of the
infrastructure in the newer parts of town. What happens is
you can go up and down u.s. #1 in Florida and about 80% of
the u.s. #1 corridor looks like crap. Normally it is
because it gets left over and they don't have money to
spend on it because they have expanded in other direction
and things cost more and they end up with problems and
people and it never works out exactly like you want. The
keyword he heard that people need to focus on is
sustainability. If they can't manage and maintain a budget
in a city and keep things nice without a city growing, you
will certainly never maintain and expand it and make it
look beautiful like this allover town as you grow. It
just won't be done. There are reasons why some of them
don't want to see the town doubled over night. They just
know it never works out as nice as everyone says it will.
That's aside from the environmental impact and the fact
that there are water shortages. There are a million
reasons not to and very few to do it, other than it gives
you just a spurt of cash up front and it gives a few people
a really big bank roll.
Acting City Manager Barlow stated he was looking for some
consensus. He commented on taking out the reference to
Menard.
Ms. Seifert stated for them to move forward, she would like
to have everyone's comments to Tracey and to them within a
week so they can make revisions to the plan and present
them back to Council.
Page 28 of 38
Council Regular Meeting
October 20, 2008
Councilwoman Rogers asked if had a TIF deed for a portion
of the property. That would be something to look into. If
they did have a TIF deed that would give the City rights to
go out further than what we have currently. She spoke of
dealing with the water agencies. They could probably fill
and extend that park and perhaps achieve some of this and
keep the boat launch. That's an idea and something to look
at. She has a TIF deed out 197 feet on her property. That
takes you within 10 feet of the channel.
Acting City Manager Barlow commented on traffic calming
devices that would be located in the downtown area and
there being a concern of the boat trailers driving down
residential streets to stay away from the downtown area.
He feels there is plenty of opportunity.
Councilwoman Rogers referred to the Wilkinson
this being a large massive piece of property.
Boat launch and then across the street one day
being used. There aren't houses around there.
property and
Imagine.
it's not
Councilman Cooper fee~s they need to get off the specifics
of wha t everyone wants. This was a conceptua~ design and
it's a good design. The Ci ty needs to start p~anning on
having a vibrant downtown and a progressive area. He
hates to see concepts thrown out but he wou~d ~ike the
citizens to review this and make comments and then the
Counci~ wi~~ ~ook at it as they go forward. Nothing is
cemented in stone. He doesn't want to see them take
anything off of here because the who~e concept was to give
them a ~ook to s tart ~ooking forward of things tha t migh t
happen. Not things tha t are going to happen tomorrow.
None of this may ever happen but they have to start
p~anning otherwise it wi~~ ~ook the same as it does right
now.
Mayor Thomas asked if that was a motion. Councilman Cooper
informed him yes. Counci~woman Rhodes seconded the motion.
The MOTION CARRIED 5-0.
Mayor Thomas called a ten-minute recess at this time. The
meeting recessed at 8:50 p.m. and reconvened at 9:00 p.m.
10. OFFICER REPORTS
A. City Clerk
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Council Regular Meeting
October 20, 2008
City Clerk Wenzel had nothing at this time.
B. City Attorney
Assistant City Attorney Ciocchetti commented on the City
being involved in a vested rights determination with
SeaGate for the River Club development. They were
successful in representing the City in that matter. Ms.
Ansay circulated a memo that should answer any detailed
questions.
C. City Manager
Acting City Manager Barlow presented an update on the mold
in the cro building. They are going to have to corne back
and put a whole new roof on it but there are several
buildings within the City that was budgeted for replacement
so they are going to bundle those together for a better
deal so they are going through that bidding process. He
spoke of the cost to mitigate the mold being between $9,000
and $12,000. We are also bidding those services as well.
He commented on one of the things they are looking at to
kill the mold without having to rip out the walls.
Acting City Manager Barlow informed Council the pest
control companies would no longer be utilizing the
reclaimed water. They have since stopped that practice and
are going to go back and readdress it on determining what
kind of metering and offer that service that can be metered
and charged. They have dismantled the disbursement
apparatus and it will have to be relocated.
Acting City Manager Barlow commented on looking at the
opportunity to update the City seal. He had copies in
front of Council on the current City seal along with some
suggestions for a new one. They can talk about the
designs, ovals verses circles, captain's wheels, the
internal and they can talk about the banner.
Acting City Manager Barlow commented on the City seal not
only being on the City facilities but also on the capital
equipment and letterhead and envelopes, uniforms, etc. as
well.
Acting City Manager Barlow stated the point of the city
seal is to brand and market your City. Quality is
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Council Regular Meeting
October 20, 2008
extremely important to him as they look at any type of
branding opportunity for the City.
Acting City Manager Barlow asked for comments and
suggestions from Council.
Councilman Cooper asked if on the artist renditions, rather
than make copies could they could get everything in pdf
files so they could change the colors to black and white so
it is crystal clear so they aren't dealing with copies.
Acting City Manager Barlow informed him when it comes out
of here they can but let's say that you have something that
you have a color City seal on and somebody else outside of
here duplicates what can you do the best to protect your
identify and the quality of it. It loses its rendition.
Councilman Cooper asked Acting City Manager Barlow if he
was able to do any big cost factors if they were to decide
on a logo change. Acting City Manager Barlow informed him
when he does it he wants to transition it in and it may
take a year to do it at essentially no cost.
Councilman Cooper asked if he felt it might be a concept he
might put on the website and let the citizens pick. Acting
City Manager Barlow wanted direction from Council first.
Councilwoman Bennington asked what the captain's wheel on
the platform was in one of the artist renderings. Acting
City Manager Barlow informed her this was at the exit off
of I-95 as well as there being one at SR 442 and U.S. #1.
Councilwoman Bennington stated she never noticed it. She
didn't like that on the logo.
Acting City Manager Barlow commented on favoring the oval
and it being Tuesday before Fantastic Signs, who is doing
this at no cost, could do that and present that. He asked
for direction on what Council likes and doesn't like.
Councilman Cooper stated he didn't like any of them. He
liked the bottom right hand corner with the ships wheel
design around the circle and leaving the banner. The oval
is an eye catcher. He feels the overall concept with the
ship's wheel would be unique.
Mayor Thomas liked the last one.
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Council Regular Meeting
October 20, 2008
Councilwoman Rogers liked the last one but she would
substitute the sailboat for something that is a little
conducive of what is out there and also make it oval.
suggested replacing the sailboat with a fishing boat.
more
She
Councilwoman Bennington liked the oval design but she
doesn't like what is in the oval design. If she had to
pick out of the four, she would also pick the last one.
She wasn't so coolon the sailboat with the sunburst. She
liked the banner, the palm tree and the water.
Councilwoman Rhodes liked the oval as well. She thinks the
ships wheel would look stupid oval. She didn't think she
could substitute. She liked the ship's wheel that ties in
all of the stuff at the exit off of 1-95. She suggested
they leave the sun, change the boat to a fishing boat with
possibly a fisherman on it and make it oval.
Acting City Manager Barlow commented on playing with them
once he gets some direction from Council.
Mayor Thomas commented on doing the ship's wheel being all
encased or would they be fingers. The fingers would tend
to rip off. Acting City Manager Barlow commented on not
having City patches but having stickers and the embroidered
emblem. Councilwoman Rhodes stated some day they might and
suggested they look into the future.
Mayor Thomas suggested keeping it as simple as they can for
the cost effectiveness and still be aesthetic to the eye.
Acting City Manager Barlow presented an overview of where
we are and where we are headed regarding the Restoration
update.
Acting City Manager Barlow would like to set up a joint
workshop with the City of New Smyrna Beach. He felt this
was an opportunity to enhance their working relationship
with New Smyrna Beach going forward. Acting City Manager
Barlow informed Council New Smyrna would like to hold the
workshop on November 12th at 3:00 p.m. in the Community
Center.
Councilman Cooper stated with the broad range of ideas and
things that are being brought forward allover the entire
Volusia County area he started to put together a formula
for a Tri City Advisory Board. He was wondering if the
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Council Regular Meeting
October 20, 2008
Council might want to entertain looking at that where they
include Edgewater, Oak Hill and New Smyrna Beach in these
types of meetings and talk about progress and how it would
affect all three cities. He has been here 27 years. As
Port Orange did that massive growth in the beginning they
had little talks with New Smyrna and it started a problem.
New Smyrna has done a lot of growth and Edgewater hasn't
been included in a lot of those talks. Now they are asking
for those talks because if we move forward we will
basically get our economic share of those properties. He
thinks the way this County is going to grow that they need
to look at all three cities and maybe look at formulating
an advisory board and starting working at that. He had an
outline and objective that he would like to accomplish. He
would like to submit it to Council and see if it is
something they might want to look at.
There was a brief discussion regarding including Oak Hill
and the help Edgewater has done for Oak Hill in the past.
Councilwoman Rhodes commented on not only including Oak
Hill but also paying their way. Mayor Thomas wasn't sure
how much participation they would get from Oak Hill. They
aren't at many County meetings and he very rarely sees them
at anything. He stated they could invite them.
Councilwoman Cooper felt all they could do was not exclude
them and leave the door open.
Councilman Cooper commented on the presentation he and Mr.
Heeb made to the Oak Hill Commission and the questions they
asked being good questions. He feels they may be changing
their viewpoints down there and a lot of positive intent
being brought forward. He feels it might be the opportune
time to come with an advisory board that supports the three
cities and get experts involved to talk about how they are
going to move forward. Mayor Thomas asked if they could
invite Oak Hill to their joint meeting. Acting City
Manager Barlow stated the purpose of this meeting with New
Smyrna Beach is to talk about Comp Plan consistencies. He
mentioned working with Steve Dennis to facilitate as they
have done in the past where they had the New Smyrna Beach,
Edgewater and Oak Hill and they talk about four topics.
Councilman Cooper briefly commented on some of his ideas
for the advisory board.
Councilwoman Bennington asked Councilman Cooper what he was
asking the Council, if they as a Council liked the idea?
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Council Regular Meeting
October 20, 2008
Councilwoman Bennington felt it was something they needed
to check out and that it was a good idea if it could be
accomplished.
After some discussion on a date to hold the workshop, it
was the consensus of Council to hold the workshop on
November 12th at 3:00 p.m. in the Community Center.
Mayor Thomas informed Council he would not be at the
meeting on Monday November 27th due to being at the VCOG
meeting. He asked if anybody else would like to go.
Councilwoman Bennington agreed to go in Mayor Thomas'
place.
Mayor Thomas wanted to address the stormwater going up 16%.
He was very proactive in that. He felt they needed to be
proactive with their stormwater runoff. They are talking
about storms and the water they need to evacuate. He met
with Mayor Coleman today from Debary and they had over 100
houses under water. 50% of those will not be rehabitated
because of the severe damage that was done. They spent
over $4 million getting the water out of those
neighborhoods. He wants to be proactive to make sure that
every house in Edgewater is safe from being flooded.
Councilwoman Rhodes agreed.
11. CITIZEN COMMENTS
The following citizens spoke:
Dave Ross, 2803 Needle Palm Drive, asked Acting City
Manager Barlow what he anticipated based on the Restoration
schedule the earliest date they would be looking at issuing
a development order. Acting City Manager Barlow didn't
have a good answer but agreed to get him one.
Mr. Ross stated he suggested it would be prior to the
development order before they would have the attorney
answer the question in the letter issued by Ms. Blackner.
He was curious why it would take them 6 months to answer
that letter. Acting City Manager Barlow informed him she
may have an answer tomorrow.
Caro~ Ann Stoughton, 2740 Evergreen Drive, stated PEC, from
2005 to March 2008, how much money are they going to
continue to spend on stormwater master plans. It seems
like how much can you dig, how much can you flow and how
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Council Regular Meeting
October 20, 2008
much can we afford to pay these engineers who keep getting
money out of our tax dollars for stormwater master plans.
With regard to the Mayor's comment that he doesn't want to
see any community go under water, Debary should have never
built where they built in the first place. That is why
they need to seriously consider where they are going to
think about even entertaining building west of 1-95. It's
all and still is swampland.
Ms. Stoughton asked what happened to the money that was
collected for the shuffleboard court. A lot of people have
asked her for that money because the money came from
insurance policies and they still don't have the
shuffleboard court back.
Jack Hayman, 3003 Travelers Palm Drive, Volusia County
Councilman, responded to Councilman Cooper's excellent idea
about getting together and collaboratively working on
regional solutions to development need and challenges. He
reminded Council that the idea that they create another
agency or organization to reach out to the community and
help in the conduit of discourse back and forth may not be
the best idea. By law they have a planning agency. Their
planning agency is charged with looking into the future and
reporting back to this Council and telling them exactly
what needs to be done at the present, mid and long time
frame. The Planning & Land Development Agency is their
planning agency and they work for Council. With the staff
to bring to Council plans that will continue to ensure that
we have a prosperous and healthy community. The Planning
agencies of the County and the sister cities to the north,
south and west all are growing together by the Florida
Comprehensive Plan, the local Comprehensive Plans and the
planning process. They want to make sure each city is
consistent with what their land use intentions are via i.e.
development intentions are and that they are congruent in
concurrency with their infrastructure and their ability to
sustain that growth. The idea and the difficulty they are
having is bringing them all together and having them talk
in a coordinated fashion. Volusia County and Brevard
County are coming together to look at the Miami Land
Corporation and they are also going to be looking at
Restoration. Brevard County has a large piece of the Miami
Land Tract and they are concerned about how they are going
to water these people, sewer these people and accommodate
the transportation needs. It's commendable. Councilman
Cooper talks about an inclusive process and they are going
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Council Regular Meeting
October 20, 2008
to have an inclusive process. They will see this week that
Volusia County and Brevard County are going to have a
Memorandum of Understanding about the development process
and procedures on the west side of 1-95, i.e. Miami Land
Corporation. They will see them invite regionally people
to the table, the cities to the table and they will ask
them to meet with them and their staffs to proceed those
meetings to facilitate that outcome. Don't ignore the fact
and don't make the planners and advisory boards feel like
they have been omitted in the chain of events.
Councilwoman Bennington asked County Councilman Hayman if
he was suggesting that they establish ad hoc committees.
County Councilman Hayman stated he was not suggesting that.
He is saying they have it. The mechanism is in place and
is provided by Florida Statutes. They have to ensure the
connectivity is in place. The first step is to make sure
the boards in each city are communicating. Then what they
have is the policy makers giving their vision and guidance
and then what you end up with is consistency, which is what
they want desperately. The Mayor did a marvelous job with
the Manager with New Smyrna Beach the other day. It wasn't
expected to go that way. The idea that they reached out
and said let's start talking, they need to start now. That
did it. That changed the whole political atmosphere. They
have two Mayors that need to do the same thing with the
Mayor of Oak Hill.
Councilman Cooper stated he didn't mean to misrepresent.
They aren't looking to alter any of that or usurp any
authority. He is looking for major avenues for economic
development and better water management and how there could
be collaborative natures between the cities. Also look at
the community Fire and those types of things and Police as
well that could be collaborative agreement and contracts in
management. Those are the areas that would involve more on
a City basis, not usurp the City agencies they do an
excellent job with but to look at everything else. He
doesn't want to change any of the committees that are doing
a fine job but he wants to try and pinpoint and be more
detailed on things they can help the community on an
economic basis for a long range and the type of industry
and business and the things we miss out on, medical
universities, things of that nature.
Mayor Thomas stated there is nothing wrong with the lines
of communication. He stated County Councilman Hayman said
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Council Regular Meeting
October 20, 2008
they have a lot of those in place. He has a meeting
monthly with the Mayors and City Managers of Port Orange,
New Smyrna, Edgewater and Oak Hill is invited but he has
never seen them at the table. They meet once a month to
discuss the local problems. He commented on some of the
other County agencies that are involved such as VCOG, VCOG
Smart Growth Committee, the Water Authority of Volusia and
the MPO.
Councilman Cooper was looking for more focused situation
towards the individual three cities that are going to
experience the majority of the growth in the next twenty
years in the southern Southeast Volusia County.
Councilwoman Rhodes suggested implementing this with what
they already have. She is seeing a whole nother layer that
is convoluting the picture. The last thing they need is
another layer of government. We have many avenues. They
have to talk and communication is essential but maybe with
the boards they already have they can accomplish that.
Councilman Cooper stated half of him agrees with her but
the other half says they have been doing that. What ends
up happening is every individual has their own little
program and they fight for their own little program.
Collectively they need to come together as a community and
bring their community effort forward to collectively do
things that are going to play out into the long range
planning of everything. He believes something as small as
this that doesn't have to usurp anybody's authority can
accomplish so much more for three little cities that need
the kind of growth and expansion in the right direction.
He further commented on needing industry and wanting clean
and green industry in Edgewater.
Councilwoman Rhodes suggested getting the Economic
Development Board in Edgewater to get with the Economic
Development Board in New Smyrna Beach in Oak Hill and the
Economic Development Board in the County together. They
have the apparatus in place. They just need to use it
differently.
Councilwoman Rogers felt it was a good idea and it was
different. They need different because what has been going
on isn't working. She suggested Councilman Cooper meet
with Acting City Manager Barlow and go forward.
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Council Regular Meeting
October 20, 2008
12 . ADJOURNMENT
There being no further business to discuss, Councilwoman
Rhodes moved to adjourn. The meeting adjourned at 9:45
p.m.
Minutes submitted by:
Lisa Bloomer
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Council Regular Meeting
October 20, 2008