01-05-2009 - Regular
dO--
CITY COUNCIL OF EDGEWATER
REGULAR MEETING
JANUARY 5, 2009
7:00 P.M.
COMMUNITY CENTER
MINUTES
1. CALL TO ORDER
Mayor Thomas called the Regular Meeting to order at 7:00
p.m. in the Community Center.
ROLL CALL
Mayor Michael Thomas
Councilwoman Debra Rogers
Councilwoman Gigi Bennington
Councilwoman Harriet Rhodes
Councilman Ted Cooper
Acting City Manager Tracey Barlow
City Clerk Bonnie Wenzel
City Attorney Carolyn Ansay
INVOCATION, PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE
Present
Excused
Present
Present
Excused
Present
Present
Present
There was a silent invocation and pledge of allegiance to
the Flag.
2. APPROVAL OF MINUTES
There were no minutes to be approved at this time.
3. PRESENTATIONS/PROCLAMATIONS/PLAQUES/CERTIFICATES/DON
ATIONS
There were no Presentations at this time.
4. CITIZEN COMMENTS
The following citizens spoke:
NoraJane Gillespie, 3588 Omni Circle, representing the
League of Women Voters, stated she has read and reviewed
the Florida East Coast Regional Planning Council report
from December. She asked if the Council planned to adopt
the 99 recommendations singly, multiply or by staff. She
Page 1 of 29
Council Regular Meeting
January 5,2009
needed an explanation for equivalency matrix. She has a
copy of F.S. 380.06 if that is what the Attorney wishes to
use as the definition. She found it in the report three
times and wanted the City's official explanation.
Development Services Director Darren Lear believed Mrs.
Gillespie was referring to the Development Order that went
to the Regional Planning Council for Restoration. He
further stated that would be coming later to the Planning &
Zoning Board and to Council for two readings. It would
have to be approved by Council.
Dominic Capri a , 606 Topside Circle, commented on the
Comprehensive Plan. He wanted the Council to really look
at and consider Page 33, Objective 1.4. He then read this
Objective referring to discouraging urban sprawl and
encouraging redevelopment. It doesn't necessarily mean
they should go for more growth. In 2010 it will be on the
ballot for the citizens to vote. Do they want that growth
or not? He asked the Council to please wait and let the
citizens of Florida have their say. If they vote against
it, then it is up to the Council.
Mr. Capri a referred to a draft for the public hearing
pursuant to Florida Statutes of Wednesday, January 14th.
The time and place was not on it. He was assuming it was
here and that it was at 7:00 p.m.
Acting City Manager Barlow informed him that was correct.
Mr. Lear informed him it was here at 6:30 p.m. before the
Planning & Zoning Board.
Ben Fanselow, 321 Schooner Avenue, stated he looked at the
City's Comprehensive Plan and there were a number of pages
missing. It would take two hours to go over all the issues
in that Plan. Line 93 talks about impact fees. It is
obvious that the master developer in a number of places
does not want to pay the impact fee or wants credits
towards the impact fee. Who picks up the cost, the
citizens of Edgewater, the County or the State? Every
small builder must pay an impact fee so does the master
developer. They should hold his feet to the fire. No
permits issued without impact fees.
Mr. Fanselow commented on the coverage on square footage
they ought to find out that a salesperson takes care of
around 9,000 square feet in a department store. He didn't
Page 2 of 29
Council Regular Meeting
January 5, 2009
know where they got 1 ~ person in their square footage
area. Line 193 also talks about hurricanes and 100 year
floods. Never addresses the fact that we have hurricanes
here every year. They can't address what happens in the
hurricanes because they know flooding always occurs in
those hurricanes. The whole proposal does not address what
is going to happen in a hurricane. There are places where
the master developer has all the say and the City in
building City Hall and other things has no say on who bids
the contract. He asked who put that one in there. He
feels when they had their private meetings with the
developers, when private meetings are held and the public
is not aware of it, something fishy is going on. He told
them to go over line by line the comprehensive Plan which
in fact in many cases if they approve the water system that
they are talking about now without approving the
Comprehensive Plan, they are doing it illegally and they
are putting themselves in a position of a liability. They
don't know what they are going to build. A truck wash, a
car wash, or a bottling plant how much water they are going
to use.
Bill Glaser, 1703 Needle Palm Drive, stated he was down
here a couple of months ago and he was talking to the
Council about the roof. He felt it looked like a leak
waiting to happen. He walks his dogs every day. Last week
or the week before he noticed one of the City's tractors
coming south on Needle Palm Drive and he took a left and
headed east and he was in the inside lane. He spoke of
having a 20-mile an hour tractor on a 40 mile per hour
street. He could see the brake lights come on and
everybody start jockeying to go to the outside lane.
Apparently the tractor wanted to go to the outside lane and
he could see brake lights coming on and everyone
maneuvering to get back in the inside lane. One of these
mornings when their plugged in and tuned out folks in the
world and somebody runs into the rear end of one of the
City's tractors, fixing a roof is going to be small
potatoes compared to what it is going to cost the city to
bail ourselves out of that situation. He has asked for two
or three years if they had any employee safety handbook,
safety stand downs, yearly meetings to talk to the
employees about new things coming into the world that are
hazardous. He thought it would behoove the City if folks
would sit down and look at how things are done. They have
the same situation with the garbage trucks when they come
north south of the boulevard, they pull into the suicide
Page 3 of 29
Council Regular Meeting
January 5, 2009
lane and then they try to maneuver over to get in the right
hand lane in order to go north. He spoke of seeing the
headlights and people wondering which way the truck is
going. It might be something they might consider.
Councilwoman Rhodes felt Mr. Glaser made a good point. She
asked Personnel Director Donna Looney if they do that.
Personnel Director Donna Looney informed her there are
quarterly employee safety meetings and the individual
departments hold meetings within their department. Acting
City Manager Barlow commented on when new employees are
hired and them doing a job safety analysis that they sign
off on. We had a Safety Director many years ago and
because of budget constraints that position was eliminated.
Mayor Thomas asked if they have to go to so many hours of
refresher safety. Acting City Manager Barlow stated there
is no requirement as far as outside of the job safety
analysis. They encourage every department to do so much
safety training within the department. We don't have a
formalized program.
Councilwoman Rhodes asked if it is verifiable that this is
being done within the departments. She absolutely agreed
with Mr. Glaser that they are looking at a huge liability
down the road unless they can prove they took the proper
steps to avoid it. Acting City Manager Barlow referred to
Daytona Beach and years ago the State requiring them to
have their own version of OSHA that covered the government
employees. He commented on cities not being required or
mandated to show those documents. Unfortunately with the
accident in Daytona they will probably see changes with
that on a State level and every city is trying to enhance
their safety program and that is something they continue to
work towards. As times change and they are using different
chemicals and different hazards are coming up.
Councilwoman Rhodes felt they don't have an option as a
city. Acting City Manager Barlow commented on trying to
realign and try to develop a position or encourage someone
that can absolutely develop a safety program that can be
verifiable. He agreed to put it on the goal list and they
can work that in this year.
Mayor Thomas feels it would be money well spent. He
commented on going to refresher training courses all the
time when he worked for the State and it really helping
Page 4 of 29
Council Regular Meeting
January 5,2009
him. He concurred with Councilwoman Rhodes. If another
city has a Safety Director maybe he could come down and
they could pay him to instruct our people. Acting City
Manager Barlow agreed to do some research and work with
Personnel Director Looney. Councilwoman Rhodes suggested
Acting City Manager Barlow get a prototype of a safety
program from another city and implement it.
John Cordeiro, Pine Tree Drive, stated one day he read in
the newspaper where the Council voted and declared one
month as Water Conservation Month. The next thing he is
reading is they voted for 8,500 new houses in Edgewater.
That's not conservation. He asked the Council if they ever
thought about what would happen when those 8,500 houses are
built. When they built Venetian Bay they were going
through a little drought and they were using great big
water cannons to water their golf course. There were
houses in Samsula that were losing their water and their
wells. He feels that is something to think of. The water
situation is not going to get better. He felt the price of
a gallon of water would probably the pass the price of a
gallon of gasoline. Every development the Council allows
to suck this water out of the ground is going to hurt and
come back and bite the people of Edgewater. Chicago had
the most corrupt politicians in the country. He feels
Edgewater has taken over that now, definitely. He wanted
to know what the Council in Edgewater is getting for
supporting the developers. They don't support the
taxpayers, the voters. They sign petitions and vote and
the Council overturns it and does away with what the
taxpayers want. They know what the taxpayers of the City
want. He asked why they don't support them. It's simple.
The Mayor in Debary voted down a big project and they asked
him why he did it down and he told them because the people
didn't want it. They are supposed to be working for the
people. This is a democracy. He suggested they turn it
around and get it that way and to do what the people want,
whether they think it is right or not. He doesn't know
what is being given to the Council to vote and side with
the big developers but they aren't doing it for nothing.
They aren't that stupid. He asked what was going on? It
sure doesn't look good to him and it doesn't make the
Council look good.
Councilwoman Rhodes stated she would be the stupid one
because she isn't getting anything for her vote.
Page 5 of 29
Council Regular Meeting
January 5, 2009
Agnes Whitterr 223 Flagler Avenuer stated she has a copy of
the Table I Capital Improvement Schedule for fiscal year
2009-2013 for all the improvements they have planned for
the City. The total is $44r054r610. That sounds like a
lot of money in a five-year period. She asked for a
breakdown that would show much how much is coming from
grantsr impact fees and low interest loans. They donrt
want to think they have to pull $44 million out of their
pocket in a five-year time span.
Ms. Whitter stated she noticed in the recommendations for
Restoration that it was mentioned that accessory dwelling
units would be allowedr which she believes is like a
mother-in-law apartment or a rental unitr which was
referred to in the recommendations. It says they will not
be counted as part of the density calculation for the
development. She was wondering how Edgewater comes to a
possible amount of water that those additional units would
need. There is going to be 4r828 single-family units built
by the developers in Restoration and they donrt know how
many of those units may want a mother in law apartment or
rental apartment. How does Edgewater figure the amount of
water additional that will be needed for them? Also the
additional traffic is not counted. How do they get an idea
of what the extra impact might be as far as traffic is
concerned?
Councilwoman Rhodes informed her she thought she would get
an answer to most of her questions when it comes up. This
is only the part of the Comprehensive Plan that has to do
with this particular subject of water. That is why all
they have is what they need to make a decision based on
water.
Casey Cookr 1174 Elizabeth Streetr asked if it was the
appropriate time to bring up the mobile home park they are
going to put on Mission Road.
Mayor Thomas informed him they were going to talk about
that in depth and it would be the proper time at that time.
5. CITY COUNCIL REPORTS
Councilwoman Rhodes had nothing at this time.
Mayor Thomas asked how the employee Christmas picnic went?
Councilwoman Bennington informed him it was nice. They had
Page 6 of 29
Council Regular Meeting
January 5, 2009
quite a few show up and the weather was beautiful. The
food was good and there was plenty of it.
Councilwoman Bennington had nothing at this time.
Acting City Manager Barlow stated the employees were
extremely appreciative and it was a great event for the
employees. Councilwoman Rhodes stated they deserve it.
Mayor Thomas is kicking around changing the time of the
Council meeting to 6:00 p.m. instead of 7:00 p.m. He would
like to discuss it at the next meeting.
Councilwoman Rhodes and Councilwoman Bennington didn't have
a problem with it. Acting City Manager Barlow agreed to
talk to staff and put it on the next agenda.
Acting City Manager Barlow didn't think there was a time
identified in the Charter.
City Attorney Ansay thought it could be done at Council
discretion. There is one resolution that was passed that
deals with meeting procedures and she thought they should
check that to make sure it doesn't specify a time. If it
does they could do another resolution to essentially change
that time. She didn't think it would be a major issue.
Acting City Manager Barlow commented on working on updating
some of their meeting procedures as well. He was hoping to
have those written by the next meeting. Councilwoman
Rhodes felt the employees that had issues with it their
stuff could be moved to later on the agenda. Acting City
Manager Barlow agreed to bring it back at the next meeting.
6. CONSENT AGENDA
A. Donation of decommissioned 1998 Police Department
patrol vehicle to Embry Riddle Aeronautical
University, Medical Emergency and Disaster Relief
Team
Acting City Manager Barlow made a staff presentation.
Councilwoman Rhodes stated Embry Riddle is a private
university. With the cost of tuition nowadays why can't
they afford a car. Acting City Manager Barlow didn't know
what their budgetary situations were there. Councilwoman
Page 7 of 29
Council Regular Meeting
January 5,2009
Rhodes stated it is a private university that people pay a
large tuition to go to. While she is all in support of
helping them out, she asked how much it is worth to the
City. What amount does that take off of our taxpayers'
backs?
Acting Fire Chief Steve Cousins estimated the car to be
worth about $500. Councilwoman Rhodes stated then they
could have it.
Councilwoman Bennington moved to declare and decommission
the 1998 Police Department patrol vehicle as surplus and
donate it to Embry Riddle University, second by
Councilwoman Rhodes.
The MOTION CARRIED 3 - 0 .
7. PUBLIC HEARINGS, ORDINANCES AND RESOLUTIONS
A. 1st Reading, Ordinance No. 2009-0-01, City of
Edgewater requesting an amendment to the
Comprehensive Plan to include the Water Supply
Plan
City Attorney Ansay read Ord. 2009-0-01 into the record.
She reminded Council that per Charter any resolution or
ordinances need to be passed by three members of Council.
Acting City Manager Barlow made a staff presentation.
Brad Blais, Quentin L. Hampton Associates, stated the
Department of Community Affairs mandated that all cities
and utility providers adopt a Water Supply Work Plan that
aligns the Work Plan with the Comprehensive Plan. He went
over the highlights of the draft of the Water Supply
Facilities Work Plan. The City should begin planning for
implementation of alternative water supplies by 2017 or
2018. In the five-year planning period, which carries them
out to 2013, they need to begin the investigative process
of what are the alternative water supplies and possibly
adjusting the CUP to allow for the future development of
brackish water sources. He also commented on having
surface water sources to the east. By getting into the
lower Floridan aquifer they feel there is a more reliable
ground water quality without the seasonal variation they
are faced with with surface waters. It is an abundant
source that is not currently being utilized by the other
Page 8 of 29
Council Regular Meeting
January 5,2009
suppliers. He then commented on reclaimed water, which at
this point in time is largely spoken for. He then
commented on projects that are necessary within the five-
year planning window.
Councilwoman Rhodes referred to the table on Page 28. If
Restoration is not built, do they have a figure for annual
average withdrawal? How much is Restoration adding to
this? Mr. Blais informed her Page 32 identified exactly
what she was looking for.
Councilwoman Rhodes stated when Mr. Blais said go to the
lower water, the brackish water and he said by 2013 they
are going to need to think about that or develop a plan for
it to implement it by 2017, how much water is there? What
if every city in the County decided they were going to do
that? How long would that water last? Mr. Blais stated it
is an abundant source because it is primarily brackish and
is influenced by the coastal water sources.
Councilwoman Rhodes questioned getting the water from the
ocean. Mr. Blais informed her ultimately. It is a more
reliable source as far as the quality is more consistent.
Councilwoman Rhodes was trying to figure out how long they
have a source of water. Mr. Blais explained the amount of
water they would be looking at pulling, the ultimate demand
for what they are looking at which is the corporate limits
of Edgewater and the overall service area is probably in
the neighborhood of 4.5 to 5 million gallons. They are
looking at taking an additional 1.5 million gallons per day
from an alternative water source.
Councilwoman Bennington stated if they are pulling that,
what are other cities around them pulling in comparison.
Mr. Blais informed her countywide the total demand is about
68 million gallons per day from all public suppliers
throughout Volusia County.
Councilwoman Bennington stated if they are pulling the
permitted capacity and Mr. Blais is saying in 2013 they
need to look at repermitting our capacity. Mr. Blais
informed her every five years the CUP comes up for a
compliance update and every five years they have to address
their sources, needs and reopen the consumptive use permit.
Page 9 of 29
Council Regular Meeting
January 5,2009
Councilwoman Bennington asked if they automatically get a
consumptive use permit increased. When will it be a point
that they are pulling more water then they are capable of
replacing? Mr. Blais explained the amount that is able to
be safely withdrawn without adversely impacting natural
systems and/or existing legal users, the modeling that has
been performed by St. Johns and the hydrogeologist has
identified about 3.5 million gallons per day as being a
safe sustainable yield for this area given their demands
and those of their neighbors. They are going by the
science that is in place at this time. They will be
looking at potentially implementing alternative supplies by
2017 or 2018.
Mayor Thomas asked about the 47 monitoring wells in the
County and if this was the upper Floridan aquifer. Mr.
Blais commented on typically having clusters of wells. In
the monitoring well clusters they have surficial aquifer
wells and upper Floridan aquifer wells they are analyzing.
Very little bit is known at this point in time about the
lower Floridan aquifer and where the interface occurs and
where the confining zones are. That is the geology that is
currently being done. Daytona Beach is drilling deep wells
and New Smyrna is getting ready to drill some deep wells.
There are some ASR wells being drilled by the District that
are going down to about 1000 feet to identify what the
water quality is.
Mayor Thomas stated he has heard the upper Floridan aquifer
described as an underwater river. He asked if that would
be an accurate statement. Mr. Blais stated portions of it
are. It would be a very broad river.
Mayor Thomas stated the lower is where they have the salt-
water intrusion. Instead of taking it out of the ocean
that is what he is talking about an alternative water
supply would be to take it out of the ground and then treat
it. Mr. Blais stated getting below the fresher water and
getting to a lower quality aquifer. Councilwoman
Bennington pointed out the cost of treatment being higher.
Councilwoman Rhodes wanted to know who was going to pay for
it. Acting City Manager Barlow pointed out the funding
sources are identified in the CIP. That is why they
currently charge impact fees, which also pays for
additional upgrades and development. The developers that
Page 10 of29
Council Regular Meeting
January 5,2009
come in and create additional demands also have to pay for
that as well.
Councilwoman Rhodes stated except that when they get to the
point where because of Restoration they must go to the
lower brackish water in order to protect our water supply.
It is going to cost everybody more for a gallon of water.
Acting City Manager Barlow stated for the treatment part of
it. Councilwoman Rhodes stated if they don't come here,
then she doesn't have to pay more for a gallon of water for
20 years instead of in 10 years. Councilwoman Bennington
stated if they don't come here somebody else is.
Councilwoman Rhodes stated maybe they should pay a little
more for water so when this comes down the pike it somewhat
protects them.
Councilwoman Bennington stated when she served on the
Council 20 years ago water was an issue. Councilwoman
Rhodes stated water is always going to be an issue.
Councilwoman Bennington stated water is their gold and they
need to protect their water. Acting City Manager Barlow
commented on the difference between water they are
permitted to take verses how much water is available. They
are pushing hard through the entire region for some
alternative water supply research technology. Mr. Blais
stated there may be regional solutions that may be taken
on. He encouraged the City to stay involved and find
partners that have similar needs and that have similar
situations so they can partner and lower the cost of
implementing alternative water supplies and regional
solutions being more cost effective. As they work towards
their timeframes they need to stay involved and find
opportunities for more cost effective options.
Councilwoman Rhodes was trying to put them in a position 20
years down the road that they are not without water or they
are without water and the reason they are without water is
because they over built the City. That is her concern.
Councilwoman Bennington stated she thinks they need to stay
involved to protect our interests in making sure we get our
share of the water we need. Whether they develop or not,
everybody around them in the future will be developing and
they may drain our water if they don't stay current.
Page 11 of29
Council Regular Meeting
January 5,2009
Councilwoman Rhodes feels they should be a leader in it and
should be one of the first ones with alternate sources of
water. She doesn't think they should wait until it's at
their doorstep.
Mayor Thomas commented on ways WAV is trying to educate the
public. He spoke of educating the children in the schools
to not be water wasters.
Councilwoman Rhodes stated she is not against Restoration.
What she is against is not having all their ducks in a row.
She wants all their ducks in a row for Restoration.
Acting City Manager Barlow commented on it being a balance.
Councilwoman Rhodes stated when she says she is not against
Restoration, she isn't necessarily for it either. She is
keeping an open mind and still making up her mind on that
subject. She feels they need to go forward and plan for
the future and she feels that is important.
Acting City Manager Barlow stated if the Water Supply Plan
Consumptive Use Permit doesn't permit them to take that
much water obviously they couldn't build that development.
It's a balance.
Mayor Thomas opened the public hearing.
The following citizens spoke:
Bill Glaser, 1703 Needle Palm Drive, stated in reading
through the document he didn't see any reference to the
5,080 homes that are on the books on the website for
residential development. There is two pages worth of
developments listed on there, not counting Restoration. He
asked if that was taken into these numbers. Acting City
Manager Barlow informed him that was concurrency already
accounted for in this. Each subdivision is not
individually listed but those are already factored in as
concurrency. Mr. Glaser stated even though they are not
built. Acting City Manager Barlow informed him that was
correct. Mr. Glaser stated the numbers for how much water
they are withdrawing presently didn't jive when he did the
numbers. He came out about a million gallons a day short.
Mr. Glaser stated in this document on Page 6, which is
titled facility needs for provision of reuse or other non-
Page 12 of29
Council Regular Meeting
January 5,2009
potable water supply and it is discussing reclaimed water
services to Restoration DRI and says it will be on a
wholesale basis. The next sentence he had a question
about. It says the City and the developer will participate
in construction of transmission facilities for a water
treatment plant to the site. He asked what the City and
the developer will participate mean. Acting City Manager
Barlow informed him there are opportunities for
proportionate fair share. If the need to upsize that line
going to that development for other developments that is
where they pass those costs and they manage those costs off
of those other developments. Mr. Glaser stated so this is
not for the original running reclaimed water to
Restoration. This statement does not apply to originally
running the line to Restoration. Acting City Manager
Barlow wasn't sure he understood the question. Mr. Glaser
asked if the taxpayers in old Edgewater going to be helping
pay for the transmission line going out to Restoration.
Acting City Manager Barlow informed him no.
Dominic Capria, 606 Topside Circle, stated he said the
taxpayers wouldn't pay for it. Don't you believe that. He
stated this ordinance definitely is for the Restoration
project. Nothing but. Things he wanted to bring up were
things done in the past. When they sold water to the
County who in turn sold it south to subdivisions and
further south to Oak Hill and they were paying less than
they were paying for their water bills until he complained
and then they raised theirs up. It was 450,000 to 500,000
million gallons a day. That was something that shouldn't
have been done. He commented on wasting water. They had a
Councilmember from District 4 on the Water Authority for
years. He has brought this up time and time again.
Sprinkler systems twice a week. This time of year once a
week is enough. When people who didn't have the sprinkling
systems, he wasn't talking about reclaimed, were allowed 4
in the morning and 4 in the evening. He brought that up
and he was told they weren't using that much water. They
could do it for eight hours and they only got four hours.
If that isn't a waste, he doesn't know what is. He thinks
this is nothing to do other than the Restoration project.
Mayor Thomas asked Mr. Capria if he was talking about the
reclaimed water. Mr. Capria informed him he was not
talking about the reclaimed water. He was talking about
City water. Mayor Thomas stated he said unrestricted
regulations. Mr. Capria informed him he was talking about
Page 13 of 29
Council Regular Meeting
January 5, 2009
City water. Mayor Thomas asked who was doing that. Mr.
Capria informed him the people sprinkling their lawns.
Mayor Thomas questioned them being in violation of the law.
Mr. Capria informed him it wasn't in violation of the law.
Four hours in the morning and four hours in the evening.
That is the law and they would not change that. They still
do it today. Councilwoman Bennington asked if that was
people with wells. Mr. Capria informed her no. It is not
people with wells. It is people without wells.
Councilwoman Bennington confirmed he was saying it was
people with City water. Mr. Capria informed her it was
people with City water.
Councilwoman Rhodes stated they could water from four in
the morning until eight in the morning and from four in the
evening until eight in the evening. Mayor Thomas stated
two days a week. Councilwoman Bennington stated he was
saying it was more than they are allowed to do with the
recycled water.
Ben Fanselow, 321 Schooner Avenue, stated obviously what he
has to say has nothing to do with it. They already passed
the amendment and felt he should have been able to speak
before it was passed. That would probably be the order of
when they were asking about an amendment however he still
continues to speak. A long time ago he was in Charlotte.
He did a study with the Sierra Club, and the River
Association and the Water Associations. He learned a lot
of things. Delsalinization costs a lot of money. One of
the big problems is on the ocean side it doesn't know how
to take care of red tide. He commented on something he saw
on the History channel where people were exploring the
aquifer in Florida with scuba gear and finding the
impurities in the aquifer that exist. He didn't know where
this gentleman was getting his information. He felt he had
a good solution. He suggested they turn off the sprinklers
on all the golf courses in Edgewater. Save a lot of water.
Several Councilmembers tried to inform him there are no
golf courses in Edgewater. Mr. Fanselow continued to speak
by stating who wants your baby to drink from a lower level
type of water? The reason they will have a problem is
simple. The reason they have new flus and new epidemics is
because industrial waste finds its way in through the
oceans and the rivers and into the aquifers. There is no
way of combating those biological systems the way the
treatments plants for water are designed today. They are
based on very old designs and engineering. Water treatment
Page 14 of29
Council Regular Meeting
January 5, 2009
plants are still designed on a 1939 plan to treat your
wastewater. Somebody really hasn't done the research onto
the problems they will have with industrial discharge going
into the aquifers. If he had babies and they were living
in Florida he would take them some place else. He will not
have them drink from a lower level water. If they want to
build something that causes them to drink from lower level
water they better do a real research project on this before
they sit down and pass it for 5,000 homes. They haven't
done the study. Up there they haven't even really
understood the gallons per minute that are used by people,
the actual figure. Somewhere along the line they have to
do the research before they pass something. They only pass
something because they have private meetings behind doors
with private people. Answer that.
Councilwoman Rhodes informed him we have no golf courses in
this City.
Jack Hayman, Volusia County Councilman, 3003 Travelers Palm
Drive, stated he is pleased to hear that so many of the
citizens are so well informed about Edgewater. He has been
a member of every water authority and organization this
county has ever had. It is encouraging to know they have
so many experts in the audience tonight. He thought what
he heard was a misunderstanding about the arrangement
between Volusia County Council and the City of Edgewater.
The County does purchase water from the City for their
rural service areas they have responsibility for. In turn
Volusia County takes and collects the wastewater from the
Edgewater area on the south side of the city limits and
they treat that. It's not a free ride per say. There is a
cost differential that is looked at very carefully. It was
suggested that the County is getting a good deal on water.
The good deal on water may be a good deal because the
County is also getting the wastewater. Wastewater you
don't make money on. The enterprise is really the drinking
water and to some degree the reuse water depending on its
quality. By 2019 St. Johns says we are going to be in a
crisis in Volusia County and Flagler County especially.
They based this on a scientific modeling methodology, which
there are numerous assumptions made and not necessarily a
lot of facts about what goes in the equations to come up
with the answer of what the needs are. Don't lose sight of
the fact that we are blessed with some springs. Blue
Springs is the thing that St. Johns really focuses on.
Because of the spring they have been able to recognize the
Page 15 of29
Council Regular Meeting
January 5,2009
impact consumptive use has and discharge has on the quality
of water that enters into that spring. He then spoke of
their concern also being manatee protection, which will
influence minimum flows and levels and water use because
they constantly monitor the temperature as well as the
quality and depth of the water. The outcome is they must
have so many inches of water at such a temperature to
accommodate the manatees. We do have a real problem they
have to deal with. He was pleased the City was looking at
it and he thinks they are going to have to deal with it
collectively.
John Cordeiro, pine Tree Drive, stated he brought up water
earlier because he has been reading in the paper about the
water and the problems we are going to have and it is
serious right now. It is time the Council starts doing
something about it now, not five or ten years from now
because then it is going to be too late. All of Florida
and Georgia are going to have problems. They need to start
something now.
Mayor Thomas closed the public hearing and entertained a
motion.
Councilwoman Bennington moved to approve Ordinance 2009-0-
01 and start doing something, second by Councilwoman
Rhodes.
The MOTION CARRIED 3 - 0 .
Mayor Thomas called a ten-minute recess at this time. The
meeting recessed at 8:13 p.m. and reconvened at 8:25 p.m.
B. 2nd Reading, Ordinance No. 2008-0-13, ASD
Properties Management, LLC requesting an
amendment to the Official Zoning Map to include
110.66+ acres of land located east of Old Mission
Road, north of Mission Oaks Condominiums and
south of Josephine Street as RPUD (Residential
Planned Unit Development)
City Attorney Ansay read Ord. 2008-0-13 into the record.
Acting City Manager Barlow made a staff presentation.
Mayor Thomas opened the public hearing.
Page 16 of29
Council Regular Meeting
January 5, 2009
The following citizen spoke:
Casey Coke, 1174 Elizabeth Street, stated when they were
doing the development last time he was here for the meeting
they brought up the issue of storm runoff and water
flooding the occupants of Elizabeth Street. He wanted to
know if that had been addressed into what they are trying
to put in for the mobile home park. If this is passed for
the damage because they already know it is going to flood.
They went over this intensely at the last meeting back in
November. This room was filled with residents but he
thought they gave up because nobody was listening to them.
The last Council told them they were in New Smyrna and
their vote didn't count. If Edgewater inflicts and says
this can go on they are inflicting damage onto their
property. If so he would like the contact for the people
to have when the development goes on of whom to contact
when the damage does occur. He asked if they got out and
redesigned for the storm runoff the holdings for the road
construction for getting people in and out of this. He
brought up before on the road issue how the people would
get in and out. They already have a problem with the
school traffic blocking up the road and to put in 50 or 60
more homes would be a problem.
Mayor Thomas asked Rodney Jones to make Mr. Coke feel
comfortable about this.
Rodney Jones, 5809 Antigua Drive, Port Orange, stated they
have addressed the issue of flooding that he was talking
about. He had his engineer with him tonight and said he
could explain this better than what he could as far as what
they have done to keep any water additional from going onto
Elizabeth Street than what already goes there now from the
property.
Curtis Burkett, Project Manager, Zev Cohen & Associates,
stated they addressed this in great detail at the first
reading. The open areas are the compensating storage ponds
that they are creating, which is creating depressions in
what is now regular forest property and they are crating
depressions that are at natural grade. The water as it
fills into the wetland and then is allowed to run into
these areas. They have about just shy of a half acre of
storage after they construct these than is currently on the
site they are impacting. He referred to the map. What is
occurring is that development along Elizabeth Street is
Page 17 of29
Council Regular Meeting
January 5, 2009
built inside of what they legally cannot build inside of
because it is a wetland area and is at a lower elevation.
What they are doing in excess of the requirements is they
are bound to make sure that they do not allow water to flow
over their boundary lines on any area of their property.
Their permit that they have received from the State
agencies shows in the lOO-year storm they are reducing the
flow by almost 3 ~ cubic feet per second. In the twenty-
five year they are doing the same thing. Will they visibly
see a reduction after development? They may not visibly
see it. They would if they measured it because they are
reducing the impact to this area. They could match exactly
right on the number what that is but it is how their
stormwater design worked out with the ponds they have on
site and the fact that they are able to store them, retain
the water and release it at a slower rate. They are able
to reduce the amount of water that flows past their
boundaries instead of just meeting it. He thinks they will
enhance this area after some of the normal storm events.
Mayor Thomas pointed out that he grilled Mr. Burkett at the
last Council meeting to make sure there would be no water
going off that property onto Elizabeth Street. He has
friends that live in that neighborhood.
Mr. Coke stated he was glad to see that they are going to
try to hold more of the water. If they go down there
during an August rain storm, two or three days afterward on
the north section of this piece of property it is still
flooded in ankle deep water. He commented on raising the
property. When you raise a property up to meet the Codes,
they are adding more to what the front side already holds.
He feels the pond should compensate but he wanted to know
what happens after that.
Councilwoman Rhodes stated they couldn't get a permit if
runoff from their land will impact the land around it any
more than it already does. That is not allowed. They have
that in place already and they have exceeded that. They
didn't have to do as much as they are doing. If the land
floods now, it will probably still flood. It's not because
of them. It's because it floods. Mr. Coke stated he
understood that it floods but the part of the property that
floods is owned by these gentlemen. On the front half
where they are going to develop it they are going to raise
the ground up. Councilwoman Rhodes stated they couldn't
get a permit to do that if they were going to impact the
Page 18 of29
Council Regular Meeting
January 5,2009
land around it any more than it is already impacted.
Councilwoman Bennington stated the amount they raise their
property to raise these homes they are required to retain
that runoff on their property. From what she is
understanding, if they get flooding there now, their
project will not impact it. In fact it may help them a
little bit the way it is designed. Mr. Coke stated he
hoped so.
Mayor Thomas closed the public hearing.
Councilwoman Bennington moved to approve Ord. 2008-0-13,
second by Councilwoman Rhodes.
The MOTION CARRIED 3 - 0 .
C. Resolution No. 2009-R-Ol, Review and approval of
the Capacity Agreement between the City, Volusia
County School District and Hammock Creek Green
LLC
City Attorney Ansay read Res. 2009-R-Ol into the record.
Acting City Manager Barlow made a staff presentation.
Due to there being no comments, Mayor Thomas opened and
closed the public hearing and entertained a motion.
Councilwoman Rhodes moved to approve Resolution 2009-R-01,
second by Councilwoman Bennington.
The MOTION CARRIED 3 - 0 .
8. BOARD APPOINTMENTS
A. Citizen Code Enforcement Board - Councilman
Cooper's appointment due to the expired term of
Linda Johnson, who seeks reappointment
This item was continued to the January 26, 2009 Council
meeting due to Councilman Cooper not being present at the
meeting.
B. Citizen Code Enforcement Board - Mayor Thomas'
appointment due to the expired term of Alice
Haldeman, who seeks reappointment
Page 19 of29
Council Regular Meeting
January 5,2009
Mayor Thomas nominated Alice Haldeman to be reappointed to
the Citizen Code Enforcement Board.
Acting City Manager Barlow pointed out that Ms. Haldeman
was in the audience and asked her to stand. Mayor Thomas
thanked her for coming.
Councilwoman Rhodes moved to approve Mayor Thomas'
nomination to reappoint Alice Haldeman, second by
Councilwoman Bennington.
The MOTION CARRIED 3 - 0 .
9. OTHER BUSINESS
A. Amendment to the Agreement with the Florida
Department of Environmental Protection (FDEP) for
the Eastern Shores Grant
Acting City Manager Barlow made a staff presentation.
Acting Environmental Services Director Brenda Dewees also
made a staff presentation.
There were no public comments at this time.
Councilwoman Rhodes moved to approve the amendment to the
Agreement with the Florida Department of Environmental
Protection (FDEP) for the Eastern Shores Grant, second by
Councilwoman Bennington.
The MOTION CARRIED 3 - 0 .
B. Request to purchase Aqua Guard Barscreen at the
Wastewater Treatment Plant
Acting City Manager Barlow made a staff presentation.
Councilwoman Bennington moved to approve the purchase of
Aqua Guard Barscreen at the Wastewater Treatment Plant,
second by Councilwoman Rhodes.
The MOTION CARRIED 3 - 0 .
C. Change Order #1 to Halifax Paving contract for
Base Leg Drive in ParkTowne Industrial Center
reducing the contract price by $132,236.54
Page 20 of 29
Council Regular Meeting
January 5, 2009
Acting City Manager Barlow made a staff presentation.
Due to there being no public comment, Mayor Thomas
entertained a motion.
Councilwoman Rhodes moved to approve Change Order #1 to
Halifax Paving contract for Base Leg Drive in ParkTowne
Industrial Center reducing the contract price by
$132,236.54, second by Councilwoman Bennington.
The MOTION CARRIED 3 - 0 .
10. OFFICER REPORTS
A. Ci ty Clerk
City Clerk Wenzel stated the Volusia League of Cities
dinner they spoke about several months ago when they were
supposed to host it. They were originally supposed to host
it in March but are now hosting it on January 28th. They
changed it on us. They just let them know about two weeks
ago. They will be having the dinner on Wednesday, January
28th at JC's Riptide. The invitations would be going out
tomorrow. They are looking at 80 to 100 people attending
the dinner.
Mayor Thomas asked if Sea Treasure was in somebody's
thoughts. Acting City Manager Barlow stated they weighed
the pros and cons and because of the layout and the ability
to accommodate that. He asked City Clerk Wenzel if they
would be having entertainment. City Clerk Wenzel agreed to
discuss that with the lady at JC's Riptide tomorrow.
Acting City Manager Barlow stated they hadn't finalized and
if Council wanted they would look at that direction.
Mayor Thomas stated he knew they had plenty of room and the
food is excellent at Sea Treasure. Councilwoman Rhodes
stated the food was good at both places. She suggested
they get a bid from each of them. Acting City Manager
Barlow stated they could get a price and that it wouldn't
be any cost to the City except for those that attend from
the City.
Mayor Thomas asked if they had decided what they were going
to have. City Clerk Wenzel informed him of the choices
Page 21 of29
Council Regular Meeting
January 5, 2009
they could choose from. Acting City Manager Barlow
commented on the short time frame that they were caught off
guard with. He asked if they wanted him to proceed with
JC's Riptide. It was the consensus of Council to go with
what they had at this point. Councilwoman Rhodes commented
on when they had the dinner in the gym at the YMCA.
Acting City Manager Barlow commented on when they were
originally planning on having it in March they were going
to research those opportunities. One year they had it at
Edgewater Landings and had it catered. Because of the
short time frame they couldn't find caterers.
City Clerk Wenzel mentioned it being easier especially with
the short time frame to have everything all inclusive.
Hopefully next time they won't change it on them and they
will be able to have more time for planning on it.
City Clerk Wenzel stated she received the draft of the Code
of Ordinances from Municode today. She was going to get
that out to the department heads and have them look through
it for errors. They will get it finalized as soon as
possible and get it on the Internet and get new books out
to everybody.
Acting City Manager Barlow commented on it being accessible
on the Internet.
B. City Attorney
1) Settlement Agreement: Tripp v. City of
Edgewater - Case No. 2006-20463-CINS
City Attorney Ansay went over the Settlement Agreement in
the Tripp litigation, which was the lawsuit filed by D.
Scott Tripp and Lori A. Tripp against the City of Edgewater
related to the purchase and sale agreement for a parcel of
property in ParkTowne.
Mayor Thomas entertained a motion.
Councilwoman Bennington moved to accept the Settlement
Agreement, second by Councilwoman Rhodes.
The MOTION CARRIED 3 - 0 .
Page 22 of 29
Council Regular Meeting
January 5, 2009
2) Settlement Agreement: Jane Doe v. City of
Edgewater - Case No. 6:07-CV-327-0rl-28KRS
City Attorney Ansay went over the Settlement Agreement In
the Jane & John Doe verses City of Edgewater case.
Councilwoman Bennington commented on the City paying the
mediation fees. She questioned if it would be the City
itself or the insurance company. City Attorney Ansay
stated they would try to make a claim for it. They may
have agreed to pay that but she wasn't sure.
Councilwoman Bennington asked what the fees were. City
Attorney Ansay informed her it is typically $300 an hour.
She wasn't sure if they had received the final invoice from
the mediator. She estimated the mediation went on for
approximately seven hours plus prep time.
Acting City Manager Barlow stated it wasn't discussed
whether the City would pay for that but the insurance agent
was there and she didn't make any comment that they weren't
covering that.
Mayor Thomas entertained a motion.
Councilwoman Rhodes moved to approve the Settlement
Agreement, second by Councilwoman Bennington.
The MOTION CARRIED 3 - 0 .
C. City Manager
Acting City Manager Barlow informed Council there was a
Council meeting scheduled on February 16th, which is
President's Day. He asked if they wanted to move it or
cancel it.
Councilwoman Rhodes thought it was already moved to the
26th. Acting City Manager Barlow informed her that was in
January.
Mayor Thomas asked how much business they had.
Councilwoman Rhodes stated there wasn't that much on the
Tentative Agenda Item list. Acting City Manager Barlow
informed them if they were looking to cancel it they didn't
have anything scheduled currently.
Page 23 of 29
Council Regular Meeting
January 5,2009
Councilwoman Rhodes suggested they cancel it and if they
needed to have it they could always reschedule it.
Acting City Manager Barlow stated they would know at the
February 2nd meeting if they needed to have a meeting but he
agreed to tentatively cancel it.
Acting City Manager Barlow reminded Council that the
January 19th meeting had been rescheduled to January 26th.
Acting City Manager Barlow commented on the final version
City seal that was done based on prior Council comments.
Councilwoman Rhodes thought it was very pretty.
Councilwoman Bennington felt it looked good on the City
truck. Acting City Manager Barlow pointed out they were
looking at a one-year transition.
Acting City Manager Barlow stated one of the goals they
have talked about is the City Manager's position. He
needed direction. He wants to hold it in a public forum.
If they wanted him to advertise and let him transition back
into the Fire Chief's position he wouldn't be offended by
any means on that. If they wanted him to consider staying,
he was agreeable to do that.
Councilwoman Bennington wanted to open negotiations with
Acting City Manager Barlow to be the permanent City
Manager.
Councilwoman Rhodes stated before they hired Jon williams
she asked Acting City Manager Barlow if he would be
interested ih being the City Manager because she knew he
had what it took. He told her no. When Jon Williams was
asked to leave, she jumped on it. She didn't ask him his
permission that time. She forced the issue. She thinks
that it would be a waste of taxpayer dollars and time to
search for something when they already have what they need.
She feels Acting City Manager Barlow is exactly what they
need. Councilwoman Bennington stated he has proven it.
Councilwoman Rhodes agreed. She would be more comfortable
with this if the decision was made by all the
Councilpeople. She thinks they should wait until they hear
from them as well. She feels the other Councilmembers
should have an opportunity to express their views. If they
are against this, then they will be ignored by her.
Councilwoman Bennington felt they would be ignored by all
three of them.
Page 24 of 29
Council Regular Meeting
January 5,2009
Mayor Thomas asked if they had any legal obligations to
advertise. City Attorney Ansay informed him no. Mayor
Thomas stated if they don't, it is fine with him.
Councilwoman Rhodes stated this is going forward because
they have three right here. She feels they deserve an
opportunity to express their views. If they are against
this, then they will be ignored by her. Councilwoman
Bennington felt they would be ignored by all three of them.
Acting City Manager Barlow stated at this point there are
two options. They can wait and rehash this idea when they
are all here or they can give direction to the City
Attorney to start drafting what they think a City Manager
contract would look like and then just ink in the name and
dollar figure and whether or not it is advertised.
Somewhere down the road they are going to have to do a
contract with someone.
Councilwoman Bennington asked City Attorney Ansay to start
working on a contract for the City Manager.
Acting City Manager Barlow stated as it relates to
contracts, back in January they had some discussion as it
related to and it was on the heels of the exiting of the
other City Manager and they had some conversations in
reference to contracts for directors. At that time the
Council expressed a concern and gave a consensus on
direction that they weren't interested in contracts for
directors. The challenge is that they have a couple of
interim directors under contract now as Deputies or
Assistants. Obviously they aren't going to want to step
away from those contracts. He didn't know if that was
still Council's position on contracts. If they had an
issue with one particular area of a contract they could
talk about that and maybe they could work through some
resolutions on that.
Councilwoman Rhodes stated she never wanted to step away
from a contract. She feels the Department Heads should
have contracts. She thinks they need them for job security
if nothing else to make them feel more comfortable. If it
was her she wouldn't want to work without a contract
especially with politics being involved. She thought the
problem was with the severance. She would like to see that
Page 25 of 29
Council Regular Meeting
January 5,2009
revamped. Other than that, she has no problem with
contracts.
Councilwoman Bennington asked Councilwoman Rhodes if she
wanted to see the severance revamped on the two existing
contracts. Councilwoman Rhodes stated they couldn't revamp
theirs. Acting City Manager Barlow cautioned them
revamping the current contracts. Going forward they could
look at a different severance program than what they had in
the past. Councilwoman Rhodes doesn't have a problem with
severance but she felt their severance was too large. She
knows they can't revamp the contracts they are currently
under.
Councilwoman Bennington commented on Brenda being one of
the people that have a contract but her contract wasn't as
a department head. Acting City Manager Barlow stated to be
fair he has two people in the interim positions now and
they were both Deputy Directors. Obviously they aren't
going to give up that contract to be a department director
without a contract. He commented on doing a minor
modification to the contract to address the title and
obviously the salary. He didn't know if they would budge
or that it would be fair to ask them to change the
severance side of it.
Councilwoman Bennington stated if they are going from one
job title to another title is their contract valid. She
understood they wouldn't want to give that up but she
wouldn't want to lose them for that either. That sort of
ties their hands.
Councilwoman Bennington asked if Finance Director John
McKinney had a contract. Acting City Manager Barlow stated
absolutely not. He listened well in January when they told
him no.
City Attorney Ansay asked if their contracts were for the
Deputy positions or the Interim positions. Acting City
Manager Barlow informed her for the Deputy positions. City
Attorney Ansay stated so they are essentially serving in an
acting capacity as opposed to an interim capacity.
Acting City Manager Barlow pointed out the Directors that
have contracts and the Directors that don't have contracts.
Page 26 of29
Council Regular Meeting
January 5, 2009
Councilwoman Rhodes feels that lS wrong. Either they all
should have a contract or none of them should have a
contract. Acting City Manager Barlow agreed.
Mayor Thomas remembered saying no more contracts and asked
if that was a resolution or a vote. Acting City Manager
Barlow informed him it was direction Council gave him in a
workshop. Mayor Thomas questioned not violating anything
they did. Councilwoman Bennington thought that was a knee
jerk reaction from the severance and the lucrative
contracts that were given. She feels if Tracey accepts and
everybody says he is going to be the City Manager and he
wants to bring these other department heads on, the ones
that don't have contracts, they need to establish contracts
with them. She believes they do need contracts.
Councilwoman Rhodes stated they need severance but they
don't need a year's severance. She feels that is
exceSSlve.
Acting City Manager Barlow stated about a year ago when he
did the research one of the programs he favored was where
it is more of a step, such as one month per year of service
in that position with a cap on it. He felt that was an
option. They can also define whether it is one-year
service in the role of director verses an employee with the
city. If they promote within they may come into a
director's role with 15 years of service.
Councilwoman Bennington stated the three of them are going
on the assumption that Acting City Manager Barlow will be
the City Manager. Acting City Manager Barlow told her not
to do that. It doesn't matter who is here. Think beyond
him.
Councilwoman Rhodes stated it shouldn't be predicated on
Acting City Manager Barlow, it should be predicated on the
position.
Councilwoman Bennington felt some of the positions are
going to be predicated on who is our City Manager. Acting
City Manager Barlow stated and that is fair. There may be
some there that may not step into or agree to take it full
time until the City Manager position is secured. He
doesn't know that he will promote those individuals up if
it doesn't look like he is interested or Council is
interested in him. He wasn't sure it was fair for the next
individual as well.
Page 27 of 29
Council Regular Meeting
January 5, 2009
Acting City Manager Barlow agreed to work with City
Attorney Ansay and they will come up with a draft director
contract for future directors. Councilwoman Rhodes felt
every contract should be the same. Acting City Manager
Barlow stated they were but they had some concern with the
nine-month severance with a ten-year employee.
Councilwoman Bennington thanked Personnel Director Donna
Looney and Finance Director John McKinney for taking the
job with no contract.
Acting City Manager Barlow commented on the free
commercial they were doing to promote Edgewater.
Clerk Wenzel played for Council a rough draft of
video
City
the video.
Councilwoman Bennington asked if DBCC could be included
since it is in Edgewater.
Councilwoman Rhodes felt they should have different music.
11. CITIZEN COMMENTS
The following citizen spoke:
wilma Grooms, New Smyrna Beach, suggested they should have
something about the ball fields and the YMCA is in
Edgewater. Mayor Thomas informed her the YMCA was included
in the video. Acting City Manager Barlow informed her they
only showed two of the five tabs in the video.
Ms. Grooms suggested putting clubs in there for the older
people. Acting City Manager Barlow didn't know that they
had anything on that. He commented on organizations in
Edgewater that do bingo and senior softball.
Councilwoman Bennington suggested putting the Animal
Shelter in the video.
12. ADJOURNMENT
There being no further business to discuss, Councilwoman
Rhodes moved to adjourn. The meeting adjourned at 9:18
p.m.
Minutes submitted by:
Page 28 of29
Council Regular Meeting
January 5, 2009
Lisa Bloomer
Page 29 of 29
Council Regular Meeting
January 5,2009