01-26-2009 - Regular
CITY COUNCIL OF EDGEWATER
REGULAR MEETING
JANUARY 26, 2009
7:00 P.M.
COMMUNITY CENTER
MINUTES
THE MINUTES FOR THE FIRST HOUR OF THE MEETING WERE DONE
FROM NOTES TAKEN BY THE CITY CLERK AT THE MEETING DUE TO
PROBLEMS THAT OCCURRED WITH THE CD.
1. CALL TO ORDER
Mayor Thomas called the Regular Meeting to order at 7:00
p.m. in the Community Center.
ROLL CALL
Mayor Michael Thomas Present
Councilwoman Debra Rogers Present
Councilwoman Gigi Bennington Present
Councilwoman Harriet Rhodes Present
Councilman Ted Cooper Present
Acting City Manager Tracey Barlow Present
City Clerk Bonnie Wenzel Present
City Attorney Carolyn Ansay Present
INVOCATION, PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE
There was a silent invocation and pledge of allegiance to
the Flag.
2. APPROVAL OF MINUTES
A. Regular Meeting of October 20, 2008
Councilwoman Rhodes moved to approve the October 20, 2008
minutes, second by Councilman Cooper
.
The MOTION CARRIED 5-0
.
B. Regular Meeting of November 17, 2008
Councilman Cooper moved to approve the November 17, 2008
Regular Meeting minutes, second by Councilwoman Rhodes
.
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Council Regular Meeting
January 26, 2009
The MOTION CARRIED 5-0
.
C. Executive Session of November 17, 2008
Councilwoman Cooper moved to approve the November 17, 2008
Executive Session minutes, second by Councilwoman Rhodes
.
The MOTION CARRIED 5-0
.
3. PRESENTATIONS/PROCLAMATIONS/PLAQUES/CERTIFICATES/DON
ATIONS
A. John McKinney, presenting a plaque to Kathy
Miller for her years of service to the City of
Edgewater
Finance Director John McKinney read and presented a plaque
to Kathy Miller for her over 18 years of service with the
City.
4. CITIZEN COMMENTS
The following citizens spoke:
Mike Visconti
, 316 Pine Breeze Drive, commented that the
new City logo was nice. He added that the renovations to
the building looked beautiful. He stated that several
years ago he helped raise funds for the fountain that was
erected on SR 442 and US 1. When SR 442 was widened the
fountain was removed and not put back. He suggested to
Council that maybe it could be put in front of City Hall.
Dominic Capria
, 606 Topside Circle, stated there was
$156,000 in telecom fees that City overpaid. He requested
that money be put for the shuffleboard courts. He asked if
we received that money.
Finance Director McKinney informed him no. He stated
$57,000 has been received and the rest would come over 3
years.
Mr. Capria asked how many applications where received for
the for City Manager position. Acting City Manager Barlow
stated he did not know. He added that it was on tonight’s
agenda to discuss the hiring of a City Manager.
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Council Regular Meeting
January 26, 2009
5. CITY COUNCIL REPORTS
Councilman Cooper had nothing at this time.
Councilwoman Rogers had nothing at this time.
Councilwoman Bennington stated the League of Cities dinner
was very nice, there was a good turnout.
Councilwoman Rhodes had nothing at this time.
Mayor Thomas stated he attended the WAV meeting and had
some handouts for anyone interested. He stated that St.
Johns was backing off, however they where still trying to
pass a rule that reclaimed water be treated like potable
water.
City Attorney Ansay stated the DEP Secretary indicated they
would call the districts to tell them to stand down. The
rule is premature, however at this time the district has
not formally withdrawn.
Mayor Thomas spoke about the Police Department goals and
accomplishments he received from Interim Police Chief
Bennett. He told Interim Police Chief Bennett he did a
good job.
6. CONSENT AGENDA
There were no items on the Consent Agenda at this time.
7. PUBLIC HEARINGS, ORDINANCES AND RESOLUTIONS
A. Resolution No. 2009-R-02, Opposing and protesting
the efforts of Miami-Dade Country to amend
Section 180.191, Florida Statutes, to ban the
utility surcharge on water and sewer customers
outside municipal boundaries
City Attorney Ansay read Res. 2009-R-02 into the record.
Acting City Manager Barlow made a staff presentation.
Mayor Thomas opened the public hearing.
The following citizen spoke:
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Council Regular Meeting
January 26, 2009
Dominic Capria
, 606 Topside Circle, stated he did not
disagree with the surcharge. If the law is passed, we’re
done. He did not understand what we’re fighting. He asked
if we charge Volusia County the surcharge? Acting City
Manager Barlow stated there was a wholesale agreement with
the County.
Mayor Thomas closed the public hearing and entertained a
motion.
Councilman Cooper moved to approve Res. 2009-R-02, second
by Councilwoman Bennington
.
The MOTION CARRIED 5-0
.
st
B. 1 Reading, Ordinance No. 2008-O-15, Hammock
Creek Green, LLC requesting approval of a
Development Order pursuant to Section 380.06,
Florida Statutes for the Restoration Development
or Regional Impact for real property generally
located northwest of the intersection of I-95 and
SR 442
City Attorney Ansay read Ord. 2008-O-15 into the record.
Acting City Manager Barlow made a staff presentation.
Mayor Thomas stated he attended a meeting last week with
the developers of Restoration and the State. He stated that
Development Services Director Darren Lear has to follow the
requirements of Florida Statutes for a DRI. He added that
the proposed development received unanimous approval from
the ECFRPC as well as from the Planning & Zoning Board.
Acting City Manager Barlow stated tonight was a draft only.
Pages from the document where provided to Council tonight
with changes.
Ted Brown
, complimented staff on their hard work. He spoke
of the process for DRI approval. He stated they have
reached an agreement with the RPC. He added that even
though Volusia County and New Smyrna Beach have no vote
they have tried to work with them on this project. He then
went over the requirements of the development order. Mr.
Brown then went over a power point presentation on the
project. (Attached)
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Council Regular Meeting
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Mayor Thomas called a recess due to City Clerk Wenzel
having problems with the CD. The meeting resumed at 8:00
p.m.
Pierce Jones
, University of Florida, went over a Powerpoint
presentation. (Attached) He explained their role in this
is to look at specific practices that relate to energy and
water efficiency, natural resources, conservation and
issues of that type. They do not endorse projects they
endorse practices. He reminded Council what most
development projects look like.
Mr. Jones then commented on energy and ways to reduce the
load and make a more efficient community. He further
commented on water supply and water quality.
Mike Dennis
, President and Senior Scientist, Breedlove
Dennis & Associates, commented on the environmental issues.
He highlighted where they are in the process and where they
have come from. He spoke about the site, species, the
plan, the process and the assurances.
Mr. Brown read from the record of the East Central Florida
Regional Planning Council as to comments made by Charles
Lee of the State Audubon. He presented City Clerk Wenzel
with a complete transcript of the testimony and the
presentation at the East Central Florida Regional Planning
Council as well as a copy of the Powerpoint presentation.
Mayor Thomas commented on the way he would be handling
further comments.
Councilman Cooper thanked the gentlemen for their expertise
bringing this project and having the perseverance of
everything that has gone. He gave thanks to Mr. Lear, his
department, the Planning & Zoning Board and the citizens.
He feels this is an excellent project being brought
forward. He spoke of not having any questions because of
this being reviewed in great length many times.
Councilwoman Rogers stated her concern initially was
dealing with the potable wells and the sewer lines but
after the report came out, they are indicating they are
going to be paying for all the costs, everything. The four
well sites reserved, they are saying everything is going to
be paid for by the developer. Mr. Brown informed her if it
is in the development order they will pay. Councilwoman
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Rogers stated listening to Mr. Jones referring to the
runoff of the treatment for the landscape, she didn’t hear
anything proactive on their side that is indicating what
they are going to do to counteract these things that will
occur as far as the runoff. That is a concern and there
doesn’t seem like there is a remedy for that.
Mr. Brown asked Mayor Thomas if he wanted them to answer
the questions as they come up or he could make an inventory
of all of the questions and address them at one standing
point. Councilwoman Rogers responded by saying probably as
they are asking them because they are fresh in their minds.
John Florio
, Senior Vice President, Donald W. McIntosh
Associates, 2200 Park Avenue, Winter Park, believed working
together with the University they have not only found ways
to address it but when they couple their program with St.
Johns criteria it is over and above most current criteria.
He then commented on source control, which means
prohibitions on the use of certain types of fertilizers and
pesticides, which is included in the development order and
will be included in their site mitigation and monitoring
management plan and the covenants and restrictions on the
property. Beyond that they have the stormwater management
system, which is required by St. Johns to meet outstanding
Florida water standards. Beyond that the systems that have
been developed by the University regarding environmental
treatment of stormwater as it discharges through various
swales and vegetation types and the like, in concert with
Dr. Dennis’ mitigation plan and the Restoration effort,
effectively will have several trains of treatment between
rainfall to discharge. He spoke of this being mandated on
the project.
Councilwoman Rogers wanted to make sure because a lot of
times it’s like pass the buck. She doesn’t want to have it
just referenced. She wants it spelled out and clear. Mr.
Florio stated and enforceable. Councilwoman Rogers stated
that is why they need it to be very clean and concise.
When they are depending upon another agency that is when,
if something were to occur later on, it is always up for a
matter of interpretation. Mr. Florio then commented on
there being three or four levels of intervention with this
program. There are many eyes on the program and each of
the components are critical to obtain the objective, which
is to rehydrate a series of wetlands that have been
significantly altered and in doing so create a water budget
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that minimizes the waste of the water, which is the
resource. That is all spelled out in that document as best
as they can today.
Councilwoman Rogers commented on the concern with the
traffic. What they are presenting tonight and what they
have talked about before is the trolley system and how they
are planning to create an environment whereby someone is
walking going from their residence to work and they are
saying if they go this route it will take five minutes and
if they go this route it will take ten minutes. She asked
if they had more statistics as to how many units they would
have there rather than just talk about it. They need to
have something more than just estimate.
Don Mears
, G S Florida, 300 International Parkway, Lake
Mary, stated they hadn’t done a unit count on the five or
ten minute walk area. The target they have always used is
the multi-family product and product that is going to be
attached and your higher density product that is generally
within the first two or three blocks of a transit corridor
which is where they have a greater amount of people coming
into those areas that will use the trolleys for work,
school or for getting to the edge of the property. They
hope in the future when they have enough critical mass that
Votran will be there with a bus and maybe take them to the
west side of the town or the I-4 corridor and eventually be
able to catch a train in Deland and stay out of the car all
the way downtown if they decide to go downtown.
Councilwoman Rogers asked if they thought about doing any
type of transit between the community on the west side to
the community on the east side. Mr. Mears commented on
three meetings they have had with Votran, which is where
they see the gap. Councilwoman Rogers felt that would help
resolve some of their traffic concerns. Mr. Mears
explained Votran is saying to them that until they can
create those rooftops and they see that there is ridership
then they will put a route in there.
Councilwoman Rogers commented on having an abandoned
railroad and that possibly being something that could be
utilized for the trolley. Acting City Manager Barlow
commented on this already being used for Rails for Trails.
Mr. Mears commented on a rubber tire vehicle that is used
in Orlando that could make that link for them also in the
future if Votran doesn’t have the ridership.
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Councilwoman Rogers mentioned the comment made about City
Hall being relocated to be within the Restoration
development. It sounded to her like they would be willing
to pay for everything as far as the building construction
would go. If it were not to be located in the Restoration
Development they would be willing to award approximately
$750,000. She asked if that was true and what he intended.
Mr. Mears informed her that was correct. He thought there
was an upset fee of $750,000. Councilwoman Rogers asked
what kind of square footage they were talking about if the
Council approved it being built in Restoration. $750,000
if you build it offsite verses building it here and they
are going to build the complex. She asked if there had
been any talk about that.
Acting City Manager Barlow informed her no. He commented
on this being a lengthy discussion when they spoke about
the development order. He commented on a couple of
concerns he had with regard to people wanting City Hall in
the area of Air Park Road and SR 442. If he got direction
from the Council that they wanted the City Hall to be
located in Restoration, that is when they would work with
the developer and do a special needs analysis.
Councilwoman Rogers commented on it being presented as
$750,000 or all of it. When they quantify that and put a
dollar amount on all of it if it was built within
Restorations, it is obviously going to be more than
$750,000. Acting City Manager Barlow commented on that
being one of the reasons they left it as an option in the
development order. There is no commitment either way now.
Councilwoman Rogers felt it would sound better if they made
it be part of the development order and made it be within
Restoration because the City will get more of a value.
Mr. Mears stated the last couple of City Halls that he has
built in similar size population communities at build out,
assuming in 20 years Edgewater was close to 50,000 or
60,000 people, those City Halls they built were anywhere
from 7,500 to 10,000 square feet. The City Hall that was
10,000 square feet was in a community where they had about
68,000 residents. He commented on this being something
they need to sit down and discuss what the needs are of the
City. They clearly wanted to make an incentive to anchor
City Hall in their community from day one. They thought it
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January 26, 2009
was a big part of what they wanted to show there. Building
a municipal facility that is tied to a City Hall makes
sense to anchor, a Town Center they want to build. If they
build a City Hall for 5,000 square feet somewhere he
thought they would get quite a bit built for $750,000. If
they need a City Hall that is 7,500 square feet they would
be talking about $1.5 million. Councilwoman Rogers stated
if they are willing to build it and pay for all of it
within Restoration, that is a no brainer. Mr. Mears stated
clearly that is a decision the City will have to make at
some point in time but that is the option they have right
now.
Councilwoman Bennington commented on City staff putting in
a tremendous amount of time with this. The development
order is so comprehensive. She couldn’t think of anything
she would want to see in it that isn’t in it. She is
looking forward to seeing the project move on. She thinks
it is going to enhance the City. She didn’t know if she
wanted City Hall out there. She would like to leave that
open for the future because they don’t know what will
happen in the future. She thanked Mr. Mears for coming to
the meeting and presenting it to Council and the time and
effort and willingness he has given to the City to adjust
this as many times as it has been adjusted to meet what
they see they want in the City.
Councilwoman Rhodes agreed with Councilwoman Bennington.
She has never seen a development order this comprehensive
ever. That is a testament to all of those that worked on
it.
Councilwoman Rhodes stated Dr. Jones said he doesn’t
endorse projects, he endorses practices and he endorses the
conservation practices of this project. She asked him if
he saw anything he didn’t like or wouldn’t endorse. Dr.
Jones informed her no. When they start looking at the site
mitigation and management plan, that is the next step and
beyond that they have the planned unit development order.
There are several layers to this. He is being educated by
this process too. He spoke of being at the meeting of the
East Central Florida Regional Planning Council. He agreed
with all of the eyes looking at the project. He agreed
with it thoroughly. They have had word versions of the
development order and there is language in the development
order that is his. His hands are all over it. These
projects are going to go a long time before they are fully
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developed. The specific items he has pointed out, the
reason he pointed them out is because those are things he
has seen nowhere else.
Councilwoman Rhodes would recommend that every RPUD they
write in this City should include those conservation
practices. That should go without saying.
Councilwoman Rhodes asked what this development does to the
rest of the property values in the City? Mr. Mears
explained in his past experience the surrounding areas of
those communities abutting their master plan communities
have gone up in value and have attracted a lot of
commercial business.
Councilwoman Rhodes was concerned with the roughly 5,000
homes in Florida Shores. She asked who would buy those
homes when they can buy Mr. Mears’ homes. Is that going to
devalue those homes so they will be the most affordable
homes? Mr. Mears felt Florida Shores was always going to
have a certain product nitch in itself. He thinks that
what is going to happen is the entire area is going to be
lifted over a period of time. He feels the entry-level
buyer is still going to want to live in certain areas.
They have a choice whether they want to live closer to the
water or live in Florida Shores. They are going to have a
lot of people starting out that may want to go into Florida
Shores. Councilwoman Rhodes stated that is what they would
be able to afford. Mr. Mears informed her that is market
driven. He couldn’t tell them what would happen today on
them being successful and what the appreciation level of
Florida Shores will be. He has to believe if they are
investing that much money in the area and they are starting
to see more business and more jobs created, in his opinion
it has to do nothing more than appreciate the level of the
existing homes.
Councilwoman Rhodes asked Mr. Mears if he had any numbers.
She then decided she would rather speak to someone that
doesn’t have a vested interest. Mr. Mears suggested she
look at some of the master plan communities he has been
involved with throughout his career and she could get
online and start looking at valuations around there.
Mayor Thomas referred to and read Page 9, Line 17 of the
Development Order. He asked how they were going to
complete that task. When they say Restoration, he
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envisions old Florida. He asked Dr. Dennis if that is what
he envisions.
Dr. Dennis stated he envisions a prairie, a Savannah type
look where they have a lot of native grasses and herbaceous
species and scattered pine trees. In amongst that they
would have the bayheads and the cypress stones and the
strands of wetlands.
Mayor Thomas stated if they just leave that alone they are
going to have a growth of vegetation. He commented on
having to have some type of fire buffer for the community.
He asked who was responsible to keep the vegetation down.
Dr. Dennis stated the SMMP sets that up and sets up the
entity and the funding mechanism for doing that. That is
in the development order that that will happen. In putting
this together they envisioned that fire would be a part of
this. This is not something where they can say they
restored it and walk away. It’s an on going every year,
every day kind of process. They would envision fire being
a part of it, which will in addition to the environmental
aspects of that which will be so positive it will have the
extra benefit of fireproofing the neighborhood if you will.
Mayor Thomas asked if they were considering controlled
burns on the property. That is a plus for the environment
and the wildlife. Dr. Dennis stated they believe it can be
done. He also confirmed the timberlands would have to be
thinned and cut. Then there will have to be roller
chopping and some bush hogging to get the fuel loads down.
Once those are down, then they will be able to use
controlled burns and they should be able to begin to
restore assemblance of the native vegetation on it. Mayor
Thomas asked if this would be done in phases. Dr. Dennis
stated they would have a plan and a phase to do that and
they will begin on it the first day and he would anticipate
when they get the Water Management permit that will be
phased with the Restoration activities as they impact the
wetlands. They are going to have wetland impacts to carry
out the plan. He is envisioning a process that starts and
continues.
Mr. Brown pointed out within the context of the development
order they must deliver the conservation easements within
five years. It has always been a concern and an issue that
they get far enough into and understand what the process is
that they are in a position to do that.
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Mayor Thomas commented on the pine trees on the property
sucking the water out. He expressed concern with removing
all of the pine trees and this changing the relativity of
the flood plain. Dr. Dennis explained the pine trees are
pumps out there now. When they cut the pine trees back,
the trees taking the water out of the ground will slow down
and they want it to because they want the groundwater table
to rise back up. He commented on the flashy system that is
out there now and the plan they envision. The pine trees
have been taken into account and models have been ran to
address that.
Mayor Thomas asked about having some site containment. He
asked about having a Plan B and questioned where that water
is going to. Mr. Florio referred to Map H. He commented
on the water that enters and leaves the site. The goal is
that the treatment from the residential and developed
portions enter into the stormwater facilities that are set
up for water quality treatment. He further commented on
how the ponds are all interconnected.
Mayor Thomas confirmed that the water flow from the Spruce
Creek Swamp would not be affected. Mr. Florio stated they
are not increasing the discharge off this property in any
direction from the predevelopment rates anywhere. Volusia
County has a similar concern that they are well aware of on
discharges to the north. They are managing the water to
the best of their ability but they need the ability to
recover that volume over a longer period of time. They
will have the storage capacity to handle the major storms.
After the peak of the storm, when the canals subside and
the offsite water systems subside, they will be able to
discharge at a much lower rate with no impact to the
offsite properties. None of the State or Federal agencies
will allow them to have offsite impacts from this project.
Mayor Thomas asked what alternate water supply is planned.
Mr. Florio explained the City staff has been working very
hard on the utilities plan starting with the application
and ultimate approval of the City’s Consumptive Use Permit
and the recent completion and transmittal of the Water
Supply Facility Work Plan, which is the City’s ten year
vision of providing utilities for the City of Edgewater.
This project has capacity for Phase I. They will have to
work with the City of Edgewater to develop the capacities
required to serve the later phases. They believe
alternative water supply is more than just picking another
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January 26, 2009
source. The sources are what are being stressed. He then
spoke of working with the sources that use the most
efficient water standards they can but it also means
retrofitting some of our older systems and potentially some
of the older residences through incentive programs and
other things that are addressed in the City’s Water Plan.
He then listed some of these incentives, which are a very
large part of a conservation effort that St. Johns
recognizes as an alternative water supply. He spoke of
pursuing with the City’s help and approval to modify the
City’s Consumptive Use Permit to provide for the long-term
capacities needed to serve Restoration. That is almost an
immediate task. He spoke of needing to find the
conservation plans that they can help implement. He
commented on if need be, looking at the possibility of
using brackish water supply, potentially salt water supply
with additional treatment systems. He stated the City’s
plant capacity right now is at about 5.0 million gallons
per day and adequate to supply the City’s long-term need
including Restoration, it’s the methods that they get there
that need to be addressed. The City of New Smyrna, the
Water Authority and Volusia County are all willing to work
together to find alternative water sources. He spoke of
the City identifying a dozen alternatives in the Water
Supply Plan that are implementable and cost feasible
answers to the water supply problem.
Mayor Thomas asked if there was any consideration. He
spoke of getting our water from the Floridan aquifer. The
lower Floridan has salt intrusion. He would think they
need to be planning right now for some type of
desalinization plant or something. He is worried about
that. Mr. Florio stated it is a good worry. Based upon
the numbers they reviewed from the City’s current and
future projections the City’s shortfall is a very small
volume. Not to say over a long horizon of time
desalinization will not be an answer, in the City’s
particular case based on their flow rates it is a very cost
prohibitive answer to what is in effect a fairly small
volume deficit. They believe through good implementation
of water saving devices and water resource management they
might bridge that gap without the need to spend the kind of
capital they would for desalinization based on the City
facility. Regional is a different issue.
Mayor Thomas stated he believed he would rather brush his
teeth and use the toilet than have a new City Hall.
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Mayor Thomas commented on them meeting with the School
Board and having 85 acres set aside for a school site. He
asked if that would be enough. Mr. Brown stated they don’t
have a dog in that fight other than responding to SaraLee
Morrissey and her telling them what is enough. Volusia
County is presently experiencing as are many counties in
Florida a decreasing in school population. They believe
they have set aside enough land in this development because
they look at it regionally.
Mayor Thomas asked someone to explain the equivalency
Chris Walsh
matrix to him. , Kimly Horn & Associates, 851
Dunlawton Avenue, Port Orange, stated the equivalency
matrix is a matrix that has been designed to allow them to
change between different uses. It ensures that the traffic
impacts are not going to be increased.
Mayor Thomas asked Mark Rawkowski to come forward and if he
had some concerns.
Mark Rawkowski
, Development Services Director, City of New
Smyrna Beach, stated all they are going to ask for is
continued cooperation with the City. They have met with
City staff several times.
Acting City Manager Barlow stated he and Development
Services Director Darren Lear did meet today with Mr.
Rawkowski and the City Manager of New Smyrna Beach and they
have assured them they will continue to work with them and
they will be participants at meetings in all the areas that
would impact New Smyrna.
John Thompson
, Planner with Volusia County, presented
Council with a letter they prepared regarding concerns they
picked up on during their review of the development order.
City staff and the development team have been working for
the last several years with various State agencies and
other local governments and the County to get this project
where it is tonight. They are to be congratulated for
that. The County will continue to be a partner in this
project as they move forward. They picked up on some
differences between the recommended conditions of the
ECFRPC final report and what is in the development order.
The changes they have recommended tonight take care of two
of their four concerns. They need some time to work with
City staff to understand why those remaining two changes
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January 26, 2009
were made and bring the people in from the County that
really need to speak to it with regard to stormwater and
transportation.
He respectfully requested the Council direct City staff to
work with County staff to work out any issues relative to
the two remaining concerns they raised prior to adopting
nd
the development order on February 2.
Jack Hayman
, 3003 Travelers Palm Drive, County Councilman,
congratulated the Mayor for how far he has come. He is
proud to be the City’s representative. It is his belief
that Restoration will set the stage for other developments
throughout the State in dealing with the population
explosions, environmental concerns and the economy we have
to deal with today not to mention transportation and other
things. He expressed his support of this project. His
staff has informed him they have some concerns about some
inconsistencies in verbiage between what was published in
the final agreement order for the East Central Florida
Regional Planning Council and what they have here today.
He is convinced they have in the past and will continue to
work collaboratively with the City of New Smyrna Beach and
Edgewater. His colleagues and fellow County Councilmembers
will be very satisfied with the final outcome.
Councilman Cooper stated they just got the draft a few
minutes ago. In the last two items the gentleman spoke of,
he asked if they have had a chance to review them yet and
asked Mr. Hayman if he was suggesting that the DRI be
suspended. Mr. Hayman stated he is suggesting they move
forward and go onto the second meeting. He commented on
the way the system and the process works. In the second
and final reading is where they solidify everything. Now
it’s time for the experts to really earn their pay.
Mayor Thomas asked for citizen comments.
The following citizens spoke:
Elizabeth Donahue
, 3326 Umbrella Tree Drive, commended
Councilwoman Rhodes for bringing up something that she has
been trying to get answered for a while. She has attended
several meetings. She has asked if this was going to split
Edgewater in half. It sounds almost as if everything is
going to be Restoration. What is going to happen to the
rest of Edgewater? If this goes belly up, we are co
obligators. If that happens if there are any expenses the
Page 15 of 41
Council Regular Meeting
January 26, 2009
city has to pay for it. Councilwoman Rhodes informed her
she thought she was wrong. She has seen no language that
says the City is obligated for any expenses. They are
obligated for every expense. Ms. Donahue asked if wells
were included if they had to be put in. She was informed
yes.
Councilwoman Rhodes commented on it saying in the developer
order if there is no water for Phase 2, Phase 2 does not go
until they find the water. Ms. Donahue stated when she
asked the question she didn’t get an answer.
Barbara Herrin
, Chairperson ECARD, read a written statement
into the record expressing opposition to the first reading
of this Ordinance/Development Order for the Restoration
project. They asked the Council to table this ordinance
until the Comprehensive Plan Amendment 2008-O-10 has
received approval by the Department of Community Affairs.
A copy of the written statement was given to City Clerk
Wenzel.
Mike Visconti
, 316 Pine Breeze Drive, asked if there was
any possible way for the single-family homes and other
homes to catch the rainwater for the people that live in
those places. He sells the rain barrels. He spoke of
people having a place to get water for their plants.
Mr. Visconti thinks Edgewater is blessed to have a
developer to look into Edgewater and to have faith in
Edgewater for this big project that he is trying to develop
called Restoration. Edgewater is looking for revenue.
They have it in Restoration. Edgewater is looking for a
north and south corridor. Restoration is beginning one
north and south corridor. Edgewater is looking for
recreation and green area. They have a big green area for
recreation with lakes and retention ponds and trails.
Edgewater is looking for shopping centers. This is a city
within a city. He felt Edgewater would be glad to go there
and do some shopping in the course of a day. Edgewater is
looking for work, for jobs for all trades. There it is in
Restoration. We need jobs. Let’s look at the economy the
way it is today. It is really hurting everyone. He is 84
years old and will not be here to enjoy Restoration but he
hopes his children and grandchildren will.
Dominic Capria
, 606 Topside Circle, read a list of
questions he wanted to ask. Mr. Capria added a fourth and
Page 16 of 41
Council Regular Meeting
January 26, 2009
fifth question. His fourth question was about available
housing. They keep saying available housing but they never
give any prices. He would like to know some of the prices.
His fifth question was Section 101(a) of the City Charter
and if they will conform to the City Charter on the 35-foot
heights. He hopes so. He also hopes they can negotiate on
the sewer lines for the developer to pay for the larger
lines and he thought they would. As far as City Hall,
$750,000, he thinks they can negotiate that and they will
pay that because they want this project really bad. He
presented a copy of his questions to City Clerk Wenzel.
City Attorney Ansay informed Mr. Capria with regard to his
first question that she could not speculate on what their
feelings are. Since the DCA issued its’ ORC report there
have been numerous meetings in Tallahassee and as late as
last week in Edgewater with folks from the lowest level of
staff all the way through the secretary of the department.
There have been changes to the original Comprehensive Plan
Amendment that was presented and transmitted to DCA, many
of which were designed to respond to some of those
concerns. At this point, that dialog remains open. As of
today there have been communications with DCA and
ultimately the way the process works is if Council were to
pass on second reading of the Comprehensive Plan amendment
next week it would then go back to DCA and they will at
that point find out whether they are “satisfied”. Since
the ORC report came out there has been a tremendous amount
of dialog and DCA has worked with the City and the
developer to try to resolve those issues.
Bill Glaser
, 1703 Needle Palm Drive, referred to and read
from Page 49 of the development order and asked about a
community development district (CDD). He reads this that
City staff has recommended this. Looking at Florida
Statutes 190, it says that it is not the intent of the
legislature to have CDD’s formed that will be detrimental
to the welfare of the City and the residents of the city.
To form one of them they have to present a petition to the
City requesting this be formed. Is the City staff
recommending that if they form one of these CDD’s that
there doesn’t have to be a petition or if there is a
petition they will approve it without any public hearings.
City Attorney Ansay explained the procedures for
establishing a CDD are very specifically set forth in the
Statutes. They can’t change that. She thinks in her view
Page 17 of 41
Council Regular Meeting
January 26, 2009
of the language is that they think that a CDD is a possible
mechanism for which the developer can ensure that the
infrastructure and growth out there will be paid for by the
properties that will benefit from it. There are over 500
CDD’s in the State of Florida. They are used to ensure
those improvements are paid for by the people who live
there and not by the people that live down the street. In
her view what the language says is that they will as one of
the parties under the Statute that can object will not do
so without having some basis to do so and they are
basically saying at this point in time this a viable and
legitimate source for the developer to ultimately turn to
finance those improvements. She thinks they can’t by
contract change the Florida Statutes and the hearings that
will be required will still go on under the Statute.
Councilwoman Rogers asked if this had something to do with
what they are going to be dealing with next week, the
creation of a sustainable community development. City
Attorney Ansay informed her not at all, this is a
completely different deal. This is something the developer
decides to do and go through the process.
Councilwoman Rogers commented on this being the first time
the City of Edgewater has had something like this. City
Attorney Ansay commented on this also being new to Volusia
County. She thought Indigo was the only one.
Carol Ann Stoughton
, 2740 Evergreen Drive, stated Mercedes
Homes has filed for bankruptcy. She told the Council to
keep that in mind when they make their decision. She then
read Policy 1.4.2: of the Comprehensive Plan. She feels
they are not adhering to the Comprehensive Plan. This
corporation that is trying to build this is a foreign
limited liability company of the Miami Corporation. Their
registered agent is CT Corporation. Then they have Hammock
Creek Green Holding Company yet Mr. Mears has signed an
application in 2007 as owner. She can’t find his name
anywhere in the Florida Department of State Division of
Corporations nor does she see that this Corporation is
located in Lake Mary. She feels the City should be
checking as to the validity of this supposed developer.
She spoke of this property being wetlands and feels they
should remember that. She thinks Mr. Mears is the broker
or the salesman or the organizer and all of this was first
organized with funds given to the Fire Department. She
feels there are a lot of opaque, non transparent goings on
Page 18 of 41
Council Regular Meeting
January 26, 2009
with this developer. She spoke of a scheme that growth
makes the new people get paid for by the old people that
live in the town. We don’t need this. We don’t need it
with our water or our infrastructure. We already have
debt. Is this new city going to be a city without debt?
When this was in the County, they should have observed what
was going on out there and they never did.
Agnes Witter
, 223 Flagler Avenue, stated the CDD, City
Attorney Ansay said that it would follow the regular
procedures the City has for public hearings if a decision
is made to use a CDD. City Attorney Ansay stated if the
CDD is elected by the developer they will follow the State
Statute in order to get that formation. Ms. Witter asked
if a CDD had been developed yet that the City was aware of
for Restoration. City Attorney Ansay informed no. Ms.
Witter stated the Development Order addresses alternative
solutions such as mending the development order to provide
some relief for the developer if they are unable to meet
the jobs, the housing ratio goals and it states that at the
point where they are going to have to issue a final plat
and/or a commercial site plan approval as they reach the
th
6,000 residential unit. She asked if the final plat means
th
after the 6,000 home is developed or prior to building.
Mr. Brown commented on getting four looks at the project.
Ms. Witter stated she spoke to City Attorney Ansay at the P
& Z meeting and she asked her to get a layman’s definition
of co-obligor. City Attorney Ansay went back and looked at
the language related to CDD’s. There has been some concern
based on the sentence that starts the paragraph that
somehow the City would be a co-obligor for the
infrastructure where the paragraph is designed to make the
CDD co-obligor if one is ever formed. Instead of worrying
how to define co-obligor was to just delete it altogether
and she thinks what they would propose to do is at the end
of line 23 on Page 49 just delete as a co-obligor
hereunder. Her view of the way the sentence reads now it
is clear the City does not become an obligor for the
infrastructure. It is the CDD that would step in the shoes
of the developer under the terms of this agreement in the
event that it was formed and those steps were taken for the
infrastructure. To clean up the sentence they are going to
delete that phrase. She has run that by Mr. Brown and he
concurred that would be acceptable.
Page 19 of 41
Council Regular Meeting
January 26, 2009
Richard Burgess
, 2724 Juniper Drive, read a written
statement into the record expressing his concerns about the
Restoration development.
Robert Lott
, 2112 S. Riverside Drive, Chairman, Economic
Development Board, commended Council and staff for the two
years of work that has gone into this project. There were
many questions they have heard over and over and they have
researched them and molded this project into what it is
today. He spoke of small towns not being able to continue
to exist unless they have something to increase the tax
base. He mentioned the $84 million in taxes this project
will bring once the build out is complete. He then
commented on the .65 jobs per dwelling. He has never seen
any developer make any kind of commitment like that. He
spoke of Edgewater having no commercial/industrial
inventory and now we will have it. He then spoke about the
economy.
Councilwoman Rogers commented on the .65 job to housing
ratio. She recalled when that was said to them there was a
comment that it was consistent with Volusia County now.
She asked what the unemployment rate was in Volusia County
now. One statement knocks the other. She feels they need
to revisit and look at that because maybe the .65 is not a
good estimate. If we have unemployment in Volusia County
now, then .65 is not good enough.
Pat Card
, 3019 Willow Oak Drive, commented on 67% of the
site going into a conservation easement. The conservation
easement is going to have at least three organizations that
will have to vote to make any changes on it, the City the
Water Management District and the County. If we are real
lucky maybe one of those attorneys from New Smyrna Beach
will convince the Audubon Society that they might come on
board too and then they would have four. Could you imagine
getting all four of those to agree to change something on a
conservation issue? 67% of that is going to stay. They
didn’t say there was another 8% going to be in those lakes.
It is going to be birds with long legs in the lakes. There
aren’t a whole lot of those around anymore and they will
get attracted back to that area. They haven’t seen much of
him lately because he is convinced that this Council is
voting with their mind and logic, not their heart today.
He thinks in their midst they all know that this is good
for this City. He has lived in a bunch of different
places. He has been on alot of different properties. He
Page 20 of 41
Council Regular Meeting
January 26, 2009
spent between 25 and 30 hours at this property. He hasn’t
seen too many pieces of property that farmers have messed
up as bad as they have messed that one up. Let’s get it
back the way it was when they wrote the book “The Tales of
Old Florida.”
Marcia Barnett
, 124 Flamingo Road, business owner in
Edgewater, Economic Development Board member, chairman for
Citizens for a Better Edgewater. She commented on there
being so many people that are so excited about this
project. She is always positive and always sees the glass
half full. She is so happy they have hope. Without the
hope of something new and the plan for something new we
really don’t have anything. She read something she read
today. She urged them not to be surprised. Let’s plan and
let’s succeed.
Donald Schmidt
, 1723 Lime Tree Drive, former Mayor,
congratulated the Council. He has stayed away because he
was tired of hearing what happened before and all of the
debt they did. They were planning for the future. He met
Mr. Mears in 2004. His and Councilwoman Rhodes’ signatures
are on some of the papers that kicked this whole thing off.
He had an idea. He has always had thoughts. He referred
to “442 – West We Must Go.” He heard the words they are
creating a dumb bell. Maybe they can call it a smart bell.
They can’t do anything between I-95 and Florida Shores. We
are in an unfortunate situation but a fortunate situation
at the same time. They have the opportunity to create
another arm of Edgewater. He commented on how cool the
trolley system would be. The future is scary. Nobody
wants to take those steps sometimes. If after five years,
everything this group has done and the meetings they have
gone to, if they all can’t have it right by now or at least
have the platform for it, Edgewater will stay the little
sleepy town where the taxes will keep going up where people
are complaining they can’t afford to live here but they
don’t want anything else. He feels Edgewater is better
than that.
Mayor Thomas entertained a motion.
Councilwoman Rhodes moved to approve Ordinance 2008-O-15,
second by Councilwoman Bennington
.
The MOTION CARRIED 5-0
.
Page 21 of 41
Council Regular Meeting
January 26, 2009
Mayor Thomas called a ten-minute recess at this time. The
meeting recessed at 9:58 p.m. and reconvened at 10:10 p.m.
8. BOARD APPOINTMENTS
A.
Citizen Code Enforcement Board – Councilman
Cooper’s appointment due to the expired term of
This
Linda Johnson, who seeks reappointment.
item was continued from the January 5, 2009
meeting
Councilman Cooper nominated Alice Haldeman.
There was some confusion as to who was being reappointed,
Linda Johnson or Alice Haldeman.
Acting Fire Chief Steve Cousins confirmed it was Ms.
Johnson who was up for reappointment. Ms. Haldeman was
th
already reappointed at the January 5 meeting.
Councilman Cooper nominated Linda Johnson for
reappointment.
Councilwoman Rhodes moved to approve Councilman Cooper’s
recommendation to reappoint Linda Johnson, second by
Councilwoman Bennington
.
The MOTION CARRIED 5-0
.
B. Library Board – Councilwoman Rhodes’ appointment
due to the passing of Irene Mackie, whose term
expires on April 17, 2009
Councilwoman Rhodes nominated Marilyn Fausti.
Councilman Cooper moved to approve Councilwoman Rhodes’
recommendation to appoint Marilyn Fausti, second by
Councilwoman Bennington
.
The MOTION CARRIED 5-0
.
C. Library Board – Councilman Cooper’s appointment
due to the resignation of Delores Shaw, whose
term expires on December 6, 2010
Councilman Cooper nominated Mary Person.
Page 22 of 41
Council Regular Meeting
January 26, 2009
Councilwoman Bennington moved to approve Councilman
Cooper’s recommendation to appoint Mary Person, second by
Councilwoman Rhodes
.
The MOTION CARRIED 5-0
.
9. OTHER BUSINESS
A. ParkTowne Industrial Center, MGM/Edgewater
Industrial Park, LLC requesting an extension on
the Mortgage Note Payment from February 6, 2009
to June 30, 2009
Acting City Manager Barlow made a staff presentation.
Councilman Cooper wanted to hear from the principle party
as to why the request was made.
Gerry Glass
, Edgewater Industrial Park LLC, explained a
year and a half ago when they got into this arrangement
they had anticipated the market being such for real estate
especially the industrial lots to be a little stronger than
it is at this point in time. In addition some things have
happened with regard to banking and financing that have
also added some delays. They are going to submit a final
site plan within the next 30 days for City approval. He
spoke of hurdles they have worked through with City staff.
He hopes to have the site plan approved by the time the
note matures.
Councilman Cooper expressed concern because he knows it is
in our 2009 budget and he knows they are spending money.
On the date in June when it will be due, what is their
reassurance that they will have the $1.187 million at that
time? Mr. Glass stated they have $3.5 million in the
project and they aren’t going to walk away for the $1.1
million. He assured him they would have the funds
th
available on June 30.
Councilman Cooper commented on the equity in the property
and asked Mr. Glass if they were forced to come up with it
and they were still slow in June, he asked if they would
refinance or do something with the bank and the City would
be paid. Mr. Glass informed him yes. Councilman Cooper
asked him if he feels he can make that promise on his
worth. Mr. Glass informed him absolutely.
Page 23 of 41
Council Regular Meeting
January 26, 2009
Councilman Cooper stated he wasn’t against allowing them
the four more months. This is a large note and they still
owe money on it even after they make their final payment.
They are paying interest every month right now. He
believes there should be some form of penalty or interest
or surcharge and asked Mr. Glass if he was prepared to make
some form of restitution along those lines. Mr. Glass
informed him he and Acting City Manager Barlow have
discussed that and they don’t have a problem with covering
the City’s carrying cost on that note during that time
frame.
Councilman Cooper talked to Acting City manager Barlow
about 10% but he was going to have Finance Director
McKinney do some work on this regarding what normal
government has done in the past.
Acting City Manager Barlow informed him he had Finance
Director McKinney determine what it would cost the City to
extend that note. He came up with $3,046, which would be
our interest cost for six months. Councilman Cooper
confirmed this was only the City’s cost.
Councilman Cooper asked if he felt 10% was high. As he did
some investigation, 10% seemed to be very low especially
for a sizeable note of this nature. Acting City Manager
Barlow informed him it is permittable by the previous
agreement. Councilman Cooper asked Mr. Glass if had had
any problem with that. Mr. Glass felt 10% was a little
excessive when they have prime rate at 3.5%. Councilman
Cooper stated but it is a penalty. The note is not being
paid on a timely basis. If he defaulted on a credit card
right away they charge 20% of whatever he owes. Mr. Glass
informed him this was not a default. Councilman Cooper
informed him they aren’t paying it late and they are
extending longer services and he knows they can use the
money. They made a deal and it was a heck of a deal and
they are giving away a little more here again. He
understands the money crunch and he wants to be
compassionate about that. He needs to work on the 10% for
his City and he also suggested to Council that if they
decide on a figure that that is applied on the February
date and not deduct it from any total net later on.
Councilwoman Rogers commented on an article in the
newspaper where Councilman Cooper was quoted and she was
happy that he did give some comments and that they did get
Page 24 of 41
Council Regular Meeting
January 26, 2009
printed. What she is hearing from Mr. Glass when
Councilman Cooper asked him for assurance, he didn’t give
assurance. What he did was say he could assure but really
they don’t have assurance. Mr. Glass asked her what they
would look for for assurance. Councilwoman Rogers stated
he made mention of refinancing. How do they know that Mr.
th
Glass will be able to pay them on June 30? He indicated
it is due to market conditions and they are only talking
four months. Market conditions according to the reports
she is reading aren’t going to be better in four months.
She asked Mr. Glass if they had a Plan B and if he could
share it with them. What if market conditions don’t
improve in four months? Mr. Glass stated their objective
is to get the plans finalized, and probably do a
development loan at that point in time with one of the
local banks. Councilwoman Rogers asked Mr. Glass if he had
been speaking to a banker or a company regarding this. Mr.
Glass informed her they had. Councilwoman Rogers stated
when she hears the interest figure that it is going to cost
the City, which they indicated was $3,046. She spoke to
Acting City Manager Barlow and Finance Director McKinney
this morning wanting to know how much the City still owes
on this property. She had to be grossly reminded we owe
approximately $3.3 million because when we did receive the
funds we didn’t pay it. It was the Peter and Paul
syndrome. Part of that money had to be dedicated for the
road construction. We have this interest figure. She
asked what happens if he can’t pay them in four months.
Acting City manager Barlow informed her the current note
says anytime it is 15 days default from the date of that
installment, then they can accrue interest and from there
they can go into foreclosure procedures and foreclose on
the property. Councilwoman Rogers asked how long it takes
to foreclose on the property? City Attorney Ansay stated
right now the foreclosure docket of our local judges is
very full. In a straight foreclosure with no issues it
takes a few months. Councilwoman Rogers stated they have a
lot of residential homes in foreclosure in the City and
these people aren’t going to be given opportunities that
they are giving Mr. Glass. This property was purchased at
or below appraisal. A great deal was struck and now they
are into this situation. She would think if they aren’t
paid exactly on that date if not prior, that they need to
exclude the 15 days off and that they would start the
procedure immediately. She asked if that was possible.
City Attorney Ansay informed her they would have to do an
amendment to the mortgage note anyway and right now it has
Page 25 of 41
Council Regular Meeting
January 26, 2009
15 days so they could decrease that time period for sure.
Councilwoman Rogers suggested they strike the 15 days
language off of there and then take the $3,046 and apply it
to the interest so the principle outstanding is still the
same. City Attorney Ansay stated if the Council were
amenable to making a change the other thing she would
recommend is they incorporate into any change in the
mortgage note would be to make it clear that in the event
there were a default in June that the interest would go
back to the original due date of February 6th.
Councilman Cooper felt they were charging the interest back
that the City was charged. He is taking Mr. Glass on his
word. He doesn’t believe with the equity position they
had, he could get refinanced in a couple of hours himself.
That isn’t going to happen. He was upset that they were
going to extend it again and he feels there should be a
penalty or a surcharge to the City’s benefit and not just
cover their cost in a situation like this. This was a no
interest loan and was a good deal. He doesn’t think it is
an exorbitant rate and if there was something more
negotiable he would love to have this tabled and brought to
Acting City Manager Barlow and come up with something they
can agree on. He doesn’t like to set figures for people
because there can be extenuating circumstance he doesn’t
know about.
Councilwoman Rhodes stated 10% is a little more than
$100,000. City Attorney Ansay stated it would have to be
on an annualized basis. They have to be careful because
they get into user fees.
Councilwoman Rhodes stated Mr. Glass doesn’t have the money
to pay the note right now or he would do it. Who benefits
if he doesn’t pay this note? Nobody. Who benefits if he
does? The City of Edgewater. She thinks trying to gouge
him at this point is unwarranted. They made a deal with
this man whether they like it or not. He is asking for
four months and three weeks. In the climate that we live
in today, foreclosing on this man’s property doesn’t
benefit them. It benefits them to help him as much as they
can without costing the taxpayers any money. Asking him to
reimburse the city for our cost is legitimate and she has
no problem with that. They should be helping him. Not
putting obstacles in his way.
Page 26 of 41
Council Regular Meeting
January 26, 2009
Councilwoman Bennington and Mayor Thomas agreed with
Councilwoman Rhodes. Councilman Cooper didn’t believe they
were hindering him. They are setting a precedent for the
city and breaking their own deal. The agreement was
th
February 6 so they are breaking the deal and he isn’t
trying to hamper Mr. Glass. Councilwoman Rhodes informed
him then if you don’t break the deal then you come there
th
with the money on February 9 and if you don’t have it we
are going to foreclose on your property and who wins?
Councilman Cooper stated they do not want to foreclose and
asked who brought up foreclosure. Councilwoman Rogers
stated Councilwoman Rhodes did. Councilwoman Rhodes stated
that is the deal. Councilman Cooper stated they aren’t
asking to foreclose on Mr. Glass. Councilwoman Rhodes
stated that is the deal. Councilman Cooper stated no that
isn’t the deal. Councilwoman Rhodes informed him that he
said she was breaking the deal. Councilwoman Cooper stated
you are when you change the date.
Councilwoman Rhodes stated all right I’m breaking the deal
whatever. It matters not to her if she breaks the deal or
she doesn’t. The point is in this environment and this
City with all of the foreclosures and the jobless people we
have in this City we should be doing everything we can to
help this man and his business as long as it does not cost
the citizens of this City any money to do it. If she broke
a deal by saying that or doing it, then she broke a deal.
Councilman Cooper stated that is why they have different
opinions. Councilwoman Rhodes stated right and that is
hers.
Mayor Thomas asked for public comment.
The following citizens spoke:
Carol Ann Stoughton
, 2740 Evergreen Drive, stated this has
been a fiasco from day one, this industrial park, however,
this man was the only one to come up with money to buy it.
He paid X and only has a little bit to go. This man should
be waived and should be appreciated and he is struggling
and he shouldn’t be charged interest because that land
wasn’t bringing them any money in the first place yet they
got the money because the man paid over $3.8 million so
far. Let him come up with the money. Give him a chance.
He deserves it. If they don’t she thinks they are pretty
low.
Page 27 of 41
Council Regular Meeting
January 26, 2009
Bill Glaser
, 1703 Needle Palm Drive, wanted to know if he
just could not pay his utility bills until June or July.
Councilwoman Rhodes informed him to speak to Finance
Director McKinney.
Mr. Glaser spoke of coming down to City Hall on occasion
and he always sees folks lined up paying their water bill
with penalties to get their water turned back on. It seems
like the Council are always cutting the businesses slack
but they don’t cut the residents slack. It might have been
a deal for this guy but he isn’t living up to the deal so
there ought to be some penalty or something for the Council
extending him the privilege of not paying $1.18 million.
Mr. Glaser stated the e-mail he received from the City with
the tally on ParkTowne, they listed ParkTowne as the sale
$4.7 million as having been received. Since they haven’t
received this $1.18 million does he add that on to the $3.4
million that the taxpayers are on the hook for for
ParkTowne and it is now $4.6 million until this guy pays
up. Acting City Manager Barlow informed him when this guy
pays it is about $3.3 million.
Mayor Thomas entertained a motion.
Councilwoman Bennington stated she agreed with Councilwoman
Rhodes to a point. Here is a businessman. He isn’t going
to default at this point. She really doesn’t see that. On
the other hand he is asking for an extension and he should
be penalized just like the utility users should be
penalized. She doesn’t think a 1% penalty is too much to
ask for four months on the unpaid balance. Councilman
Cooper informed her it was about $11,000. Councilwoman
Rogers pointed out that Finance Director McKinney said it
was costing the City $3,046. Councilwoman Bennington
stated she didn’t want to do any more than it is costing
the City. She asked Mr. Glass if he would be willing to
pay what it is costing the City to carry the note for those
four months. Mr. Glass informed her he had already
committed to that.
Councilwoman Bennington moved to approve the change with
him agreeing to pay the cost for us to carry the note those
four months. Councilwoman Rhodes asked Councilwoman
Bennington if she wanted to add the language that Carolyn
th
suggested about interest reverting back to February 6 if
Page 28 of 41
Council Regular Meeting
January 26, 2009
th
it wasn’t paid on June 30. Councilwoman Bennington stated
sure.
Acting City Manager Barlow commented on the request of
Councilwoman Rogers’, which was a reduction of the penalty
period from 15 days, to lower that. He asked if they
wanted to go 10 days. Councilwoman Rogers suggested three
days because 15 days is 2 weeks. She informed Mr. Glass
that contrary to what some people up there like to believe,
in no way shape or form was she looking or intending and
she didn’t believe Councilwoman Cooper was either, to
indicate foreclosure, nothing like that. They are
representing the citizens and to require or request that
the $3,046 be paid that is only because the City is having
to pay it. Mr. Glass had no problem with that.
Councilwoman Rogers stated everything they are doing is
just good business. If they worked for him he would want
them to do nothing less than what they are doing up there.
Mr. Glass informed her that was well said.
Councilwoman Rhodes seconded the motion.
City Attorney Ansay asked for clarification. She wanted to
know if the motion changed the number of days to three.
Councilwoman Bennington stated she guessed since it is the
general feeling. City Attorney Ansay wanted to make sure
she had direction for purposes of preparing the document.
She had the change in the date, the fee of $3,046, reduce
the number of days to three and insert a provision that
default would go back to the original date of February 6,
2009.
The MOTION CARRIED 5-0
.
B. Consideration of the Third Amendment to the
Interlocal Agreement of the East Volusia Local
Government Fire-Rescue and Emergency Medical
Services Automatic Aid and Closest Unit Response
System
Acting City Manager Barlow made a staff presentation.
Councilwoman Bennington moved to extend the amendment,
second by Councilman Cooper
.
The MOTION CARRIED 5-0
.
Page 29 of 41
Council Regular Meeting
January 26, 2009
10. OFFICER REPORTS
A. City Clerk
City Clerk Wenzel apologized for the mix up on the Code
Enforcement Board appointment.
1) Discussion regarding changing the Council
meeting time from 7:00 p.m. to 6:00 p.m.
City Clerk Wenzel wasn’t sure if they wanted to further
discuss changing the Council meeting time from 7:00 p.m. to
6:00 p.m. with the meetings still being held on Monday.
Councilwoman Rhodes and Councilwoman Bennington didn’t have
a problem with it. Mayor Thomas stated Acting City Manager
Barlow talked to staff and staff said they could all be
there. City Attorney Ansay also confirmed she could be
there.
Councilwoman Rogers stated when she got elected it was 7:00
p.m. and she plans a dinner. She thinks it should stay at
7:00 p.m. There are days when she is in Orlando and if she
is trying to leave Orlando on I-4, an hour may not be
enough.
Councilman Cooper asked if it would mess up attendance with
the citizens. Some audience members wanted to keep it at
7:00 p.m.
Mayor Thomas entertained a motion.
Councilwoman Bennington moved to change the meeting time to
6:00 p.m., second by Councilman Cooper
.
The MOTION CARRIED 4-1. Councilwoman Rogers voted NO.
Councilwoman Rogers informed the Council she would see them
at 7:00 p.m.
Acting City Manager Barlow stated if they are comfortable
with it he suggested they begin that in March since they
have done some advertisements for the February meetings.
Mayor Thomas mentioned the Volusia League Dinner and stated
City Clerk Wenzel did a wonderful job organizing the dinner
for 98 people. He further commented on the mix up with the
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Council Regular Meeting
January 26, 2009
date of the dinner. He informed City Clerk Wenzel they
appreciated all her hard work.
B. City Attorney
City Attorney Ansay had nothing at this time.
C. City Manager
1) Hiring of City Manager
Acting City Manager Barlow commented on the hiring of the
City Manager being on the Council’s goal list for this
year. He brought it up at the last Council meeting but
because there were a couple Councilmembers absent they
requested it be tabled until all Councilmembers were
present. He also disclosed they want open, public comment,
dialog in the public regarding this. Let’s talk honestly
and he told them to please not feel they will offend him by
any means if they decide to go a different route and want
him to go back as the Fire Chief. He has also offered if
they are interested in keeping him he would be interested
in considering a contract and becoming the City Manager.
He asked for direction from Council.
Councilman Cooper felt this was a very big issue. He feels
he has done a great job walking into a mess moral wise and
financial wise. He believes the bad things that may happen
in our economy he believes would put Acting City Manager
Barlow in such a terrible position for his family and his
friends. He thinks the Council needs to hold a workshop
and throw all the issues on the table and make a decision
once they look at all the issues on whether they want to
interview or whether Acting City Manager Barlow really
wants to tackle those things that may be part of what has
to happen in the future. He suggested they don’t put it on
today but make a workshop as quick as they can and bring
all the issues out and hash it over.
Councilwoman Rogers stated she has been contemplating on
this for a while. As government officials they have to
remember their responsibility is to who they govern. The
administration we have now, the interims, they all came in
during at time where they had a lot of upheaval. She
doesn’t want anyone to take offense with this. There have
been some things that have happened from 2007 through the
end of 2007 that she thought were going to take a turn and
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Council Regular Meeting
January 26, 2009
with the interim administrators and this is not including
Ms. Dewees. She thinks Ms. Dewees is doing an excellent
job as an interim and has been in that position, working
with Terry Wadsworth for 18 years. She feels she is
perfect to go to the next level. She has grave concerns
with the City Manager position as well as the Chief of
Police position. She has been railed. There has been
evidence that has been lost or destroyed. There have been
things created, reports changed. She brought this up to
the powers to be. There have been accounting records that
she has requested that were never provided to her and this
had to do with some donations made to the City. She is just
touching on something. There are several things. She is a
very precise direct person. She isn’t going to say
something and throw it out there as accusations unless she
has something to back it up. She brought things to the
powers that be’s attention and they did not follow through.
There was integrity lacking. She brought things forward
and when it went to the next level, there were certain
individuals or departments that were underneath the Chief
as well as the City Manager, the two interims, whereby they
could have done something and done it right and they
didn’t. She acquired some evidence where she requested,
she did a public record request on a couple of things. One
thing was to find out what accounting the City had for
these donations. She was told there weren’t any. She was
told they never received these donations. She asked for
that to be put in writing. She provided that to the next
level of authority. That next level of authority she found
out six months later, she found out two things. She thought
our City had done an affidavit regarding some truth and
facts and then she found out the City never did an
affidavit. Then she found out that somebody in the City
provided evidence contrary to the evidence she supported
and provided. Then she found out that evidence was crated
because anything that comes out of the Police Department,
any interoffice memos, are in a log. They are dated and
numbered. The evidence that was provided to the State
Attorney’s office was not numbered and was not in the
Police log and it was evidence that somebody provided out
of this administration that somebody used as evidence to
superceded evidence she gave that she pulled from this
administration. She didn’t create it. Nobody did. That
is just a couple of things. There is more to be told and
in due time it will all come out. She thinks they need to
deal with, she is telling the truth. Please remember that.
Who is going to stand up with her and do the right thing
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Council Regular Meeting
January 26, 2009
and go forward? This City has had a good old boy
reputation. The development that they have on the table
right now isn’t going to rescue the community. She doesn’t
think it is a bad development. She feels it has a lot of
positives. The Council needs to not be afraid to take
another easy way out that only takes them backward again.
Since she believes the latter part of the 80’s they have
done nothing but move people from within. When these
people have to make hard choices all too often things get
personal. In the choices to fix things to go forward are
not made correctly. Integrity needs to be restored. This
administration is still engaging in activities that brought
down the last administration and that is why they need to
go outside and start fresh. She thinks Tracey has done a
good job as an Interim City Manager. She thinks there are
things that maybe she wants to believe that he wasn’t aware
of and so therefore he didn’t get all of the facts and that
is why maybe he didn’t overrule certain decisions. She
brought to his attention where there was evidence supplied
to certain personnel in the Police Department and they
destroyed it or they lied about it. There was a harassment
charge she filed and she provided everything and he even
felt what she said was true and actual. Nothing happened.
Nothing was done. If the system here is only about
covering up problems so it doesn’t get out in the public
then how are they to come out of the dark ages? Edgewater
has a bad reputation with covering up things and not going
forward. We have a development that wants to come into the
City that is really going to put us on the map. They need
people in these leadership positions that aren’t going to
be afraid to lead. They won’t worry about who their
friends are or helping somebody. They will do the right
thing irregardless. If they want to be a leader, they
can’t try to make friends with everybody. She thinks
perhaps Acting City Manager Barlow should go back to being
Fire Chief and be an Assistant City Manager and then they
get someone outside that is experienced that doesn’t have
any contact within this City and then become an Assistant
to him and work that way.
Councilwoman Bennington stated she was on the Council in
the 1980’s. In the beginning and at the end of the 1980’s
they brought in outside City Managers to straighten up the
mess. She doesn’t see them around. Mr. Hooper was an
outsider who came in. Where is he now? As long as she has
lived in this City and been involved in politics in this
City, which is 35 years, she has never seen this City run
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Council Regular Meeting
January 26, 2009
as efficiently and all of the personnel from the very
bottom to the very top as harmonious as they have been
under Tracey’s administration. She feels they would be
doing the citizens and employees an injustice to waste any
more time going out for advertisements for City Mangers,
dragging their feet, interviewing people from who knows
where that want a lot of money to take a job that Tracey
has been doing and doing it the best she has seen this City
done. As far as the good old boys, that is long gone.
When she first came in there were the good old boys. They
aren’t there any more. She is happy with Tracey. She
doesn’t want to see anybody else. She doesn’t want to
interview anyone else. She doesn’t want to waste any more
time on this issue. When they put Tracey in charge that
was a big step and he has stepped up and lived up to
everything. She feels some of the issues brought up by
Councilwoman Rogers were personal issues. They don’t know
anything about what she is talking about. Councilwoman
Rogers stated of course they don’t and none of them have
done anything. Mayor Thomas banged the gavel.
Councilwoman Rogers stated Councilwoman Bennington is
attacking her and told him to act like a Chairman.
Councilwoman Bennington stated she thought they were
personal issues they knew nothing about. In the best
interest of the citizens, she thinks they need to negotiate
with Tracey as their City Manager.
Councilwoman Rhodes felt there were two issues going on.
One is with the Police Chief and one is with Acting City
Manager Barlow. She has known Acting City Manager Barlow a
long time. His integrity is the thing that she would never
question about him. Councilwoman Rogers has questioned his
integrity. She thought it was against Acting City Manager
Barlow’s integrity. It might not have been. She was
confused as to what part was Acting City Manager Barlow and
what part was the Police Chief. They don’t have any
purview over the Police Chief. That is not their job. The
Council has no purview over the Police Chief. That is the
City Manager’s job. She has seen Tracey take the ball and
just run miles with it. He is largely responsible along
with the City Attorney and Darren with the development
order they saw tonight. It was a masterpiece. She has
never seen anything that precise and that well written and
addressing every issue down to the smallest detail. She
agreed with Councilwoman Bennington. She felt there were
personal issues there and maybe they aren’t but
Councilwoman Rogers is saying these are problems she has
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Council Regular Meeting
January 26, 2009
had. She felt they were personal issues and personal
issues shouldn’t enter into this decision. It should be
based upon what is best for this City. Right now the best
for this City, he took a City that was mired in mud and
pulled it out of the mud and is moving it forward into the
next decade. As long as he keeps doing that and as long as
his integrity is never an issue and it never has been from
her perspective then she doesn’t see why they would waste
money and time trying to find something they already have.
A lot of times the grass is greenest in your own backyard.
Mayor Thomas agreed with Councilwoman Bennington and
Councilwoman Rhodes. He thinks we have a winner sitting
here. He asked Acting City Manager Barlow how long he had
been doing this. Acting City Manager Barlow informed him a
little over a year. Mayor Thomas stated he stepped in and
he was there the next morning and asked Acting City Manager
Barlow what he wanted him to do and he told him to go on
and that he had it. He’s done excellent. He goes to
meetings all over the County and they are bragging on an
Interim City Manager. He can’t say in enough words what he
has done for this City. No only is he reactive to their
problems he is proactive on this City Hall, the Visioning
Process, the Video. He was sure that man’s mind was
thinking when he went to bed at night. He commented on the
City employees. They are looking for some stability.
Acting Chief Bennett wants to get on with his program. If
he gets elected, he thinks he has a good program in mind.
Ms. Dewees and Mr. McKinney, all these people that are in
interim positions are looking for stability and he thinks
they should give them that stability. Acting City Manager
Barlow is a homegrown product. His son was in little
league and he loves this City just as he does. He thinks
they shouldn’t waste time and go ahead and make the
decision tonight.
Councilwoman Bennington made a motion to start negotiations
with Tracey Barlow to be City Manager.
Carol Stoughton asked if there would be public comment.
Mayor Thomas told her to go ahead.
Carol Ann Stoughton
, 2740 Evergreen Drive, stated they had
Mr. Hooper and they all said he was doing a great job and
he put our City in debt. Then they got Mr. Williams.
Guess what. Mr. Williams decided to go in and investigate
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Council Regular Meeting
January 26, 2009
overtime with the fire department and the salaries and the
salaries compared to the police are way off so when Mr.
Williams decided to do his job that is when the good old
boys got together and got Mr. Williams out. It was Gigi
Bennington who was put in there by the Fire Department. All
of her campaign contributions came from the Fire
department. One day she asked Mr. Barlow something and he
told her he didn’t have to answer to her. She still hasn’t
gotten an answer as to how much money was given by
Restoration or Hammock Creek to the Fire Department. She
thinks that is a severe conflict of interest. She feels
Mr. Barlow is an excellent Fire Chief and she feels he is
too much with the developer and she also feels he is not
qualified. We have not had a qualified City Manager. His
salary right now is about $120,000 with perks. She was
sure someone would come in here for $85,000. There are so
many people out of work. She feels it is time to hire a
City Manager with past experience. There are many people
out there. Nothing personal against Mr. Barlow but she
feels there is a lot of non-transparent goings on as Ms.
Rogers said. She was even slammed in an e-mail. They all
know what she is talking about. They need a manager with
experience who can cut their debt, who is not related, who
is not involved and is not associated with and treats the
Fire department and Police Department with great respect
and equality. We need a man that can come in here and
bring in business. They need a man with experience. They
come in for public records and he says they don’t have it.
He came running out when she told him someone else had it
already. She thinks a lot of these people are
collaborating too much with the developers and she thinks
he is one of the main ones and the pusher of this project.
She approves of Mr. Bennett and he should be in there. She
feels Mr. Barlow should be Fire Chief. She thought he was
going to be retiring. That would be two pensions.
Mayor Thomas entertained a motion.
Councilwoman Bennington moved they start negotiations with
Tracey Barlow for their permanent City Manager, second by
Councilwoman Rhodes
.
The MOTION CARRIED 4-1. Councilwoman Rogers voted NO
.
Acting City Manager Barlow commented on doing a Summit with
Southeast Volusia cities, which include New Smyrna and Oak
Page 36 of 41
Council Regular Meeting
January 26, 2009
th
Hill. He had potential dates; the afternoon of March 4 or
th
the afternoon of March 18, which are both on Wednesday.
th
It was the decision of Council hold the Summit on the 18.
Councilman Cooper asked what time. Acting City Manager
Barlow informed him it would be in the afternoon but that
they had to secure a time. They were looking at around
2:00 p.m. They are going to look to have it at the Daytona
th
State College on 10 Street.
Acting City Manager Barlow informed Council he would be
looking to them for some major topics that affect Southeast
Volusia that they would like to talk about and they would
put those on the agenda.
Acting City Manager Barlow spoke about the second meeting
in February. They are going to wait to see what the agenda
th
looked like if they had to reschedule the February 16
meeting because of President’s Day. He needed to schedule
th
that for February 17, which is a Tuesday due to a bid
rd
opening for the Kennedy Park project on February 3 and he
needed to fast track that project to make sure they get the
th
grant money so they need to award the bid on February 17.
th
It was consensus of Council to meet on February 17 at 7:00
p.m.
Acting City Manager Barlow informed Council the auditors
started this week on auditing last year’s budget.
Councilman Cooper stated the motion was made to start
negotiations with Tracey. He would like a definition of
what they mean by negotiations.
Councilwoman Bennington stated for him to get with the City
Attorney and see what he is willing to talk about. They
know what he is getting paid now. See what he wants and
let him negotiate through her and let her bring it to
Council.
City Attorney Ansay stated what she could bring to Council
is a proposed contract that would have a framework and then
she can outline for Council the issues they will need to
negotiate and come to some agreement between Council and
Mr. Barlow. She agreed to try to do it by next Monday but
th
if she couldn’t by the 17 for certain they would have a
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Council Regular Meeting
January 26, 2009
document they would begin working off of. They can either
set a workshop session or the entire Council could meet to
flesh out those terms. Alternatively they could have the
Mayor or one of the Councilmembers. Councilwoman Rhodes
stated they did that the last time. She recalled they had
Dennis. City Attorney Ansay commented on delegating that
to get some framework and then obviously anything comes
back for council. Those are the ways she has done it in
the past.
Councilman Cooper stated the only concern he has and it is
unfair to Mr. Barlow is he has never been interviewed and
they all know Mr. Barlow. More than half the citizens
don’t know how he has expanded his life through the last 25
years with the City. He thinks they owe in fairness a
proper interview process. There are some tough issues and
that is why he suggested the workshop. Get it out. Let’s
hear their answers from Mr. Barlow because he can’t turn a
blind eye to some things that may be coming up and get it
all done in one quick, the easy way to go. He thinks they
owe him an interview process and they owe it to the
citizens.
Councilwoman Rhodes stated how many people do you hire and
then interview. She asked Councilman Cooper why he didn’t
say this before that he wanted to interview. Councilman
Cooper commented on hiring Mr. Barlow and they were
supposed to be researching a City Manager and they never
went forward with that. He thinks they should do the
proper process so the Council and citizens know they are
getting the best candidate for the job.
11. CITIZEN COMMENTS
The following citizens spoke:
Danny Rogers
, 510 S. Riverside Drive, stated there is a lot
of emotion going on that they are seeing. The smartest
thing he is hearing is coming from Mr. Cooper. This
deserves the Council privately discussing this issue and
let Tracey speak and let Debby speak and hear what they
have to say and then they will come back with an education
and they will know more than they know now. Without
dirtying laundry here, give yourself that chance and they
will come back wiser and everyone will be the better for
it. Perhaps Tracey is the man for the job but understand
what is really going on here. There are reasons why people
Page 38 of 41
Council Regular Meeting
January 26, 2009
said what they said. People need to take a stand and
validate what happened and why it happened. Do the
citizens the favor of having their private meeting.
Councilwoman Rhodes stated under Sunshine they can’t meet
privately.
Councilman Cooper stated he suggested a workshop.
Councilwoman Rhodes informed him that is still public.
Mr. Rogers recommended they have a workshop.
Mayor Thomas stated they could do that. They can’t meet
privately but they could do that but he doesn’t think he
wants to know what he knows because he knows a lot. He
tried to stay unpersonal but if he wants to get it out he
thinks it is going to be real embarrassing to Mr. and
Councilwoman Rogers. Mr. Rogers informed him he thought
it was time. He thinks if they have something to say.
Councilwoman Rogers informed Mayor Thomas he didn’t know
the half of it and had no idea. Mr. Rogers stated let’s
not start this. Councilwoman Rhodes stated either discuss
it publicly or don’t.
Councilman Cooper stated they would do a proper forum and
hold a workshop. Councilwoman Rhodes stated throwing
innuendo around isn’t fair to anybody. Mr. Rogers asked
Councilman Cooper if there was a proper way to do it.
Councilman Cooper felt if they had a workshop because his
issues aren’t with some of Debra’s issues. His concern is
more along the expertise of the individual. Is it the
right individual? He has a list of some real hard choices
he believes the City needs to make that he wants to hear
him say to him and look him in the eye and say he can do
that if he has to. That is what he wants to discuss.
Mr. Rogers stated give the opportunity for everyone to
voice pros and cons and let it be done. Put it all on the
table and do the right thing.
Councilwoman Bennington suggested they ask City Attorney
Ansay if she could come up with a rough framework for a
contract at their next meeting based on what he’s got and
what he wants and at that next meeting they set a workshop
and sit down within the next month and talk over with him,
ask the questions and go negotiate the contract that has
been presented and then have a special meeting.
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Council Regular Meeting
January 26, 2009
Councilman Cooper wants to hardcore interview Tracey Barlow
for the City Manager’s job and either prove he is right
that he is the right person or prove to himself that maybe
they should look outside.
Acting City Manager Barlow suggested doing a one on one
with Councilman Cooper if it would help the situation
because it appears there is only one strong interest of
that interview. Councilman Cooper expressed concern with
the other Councilmembers not being there. Councilwoman
Rhodes stated they know. Mayor Thomas stated they are
already convinced. Councilwoman Rhodes stated she has
known Acting City Manager Barlow for 25 years. She knows
what Acting City Manager Barlow can do and doesn’t need to
interview. But Councilman Cooper is right. In the
interest of the citizens he is absolutely right. If the
citizens don’t know, she just assumes they know what she
knows and that they have seen the way the City is run so it
makes sense. If they feel that is important maybe Acting
City Manager Barlow submit a resume’ that they have on file
that any citizen can get a copy of. Councilman Cooper can
talk to him and ask his questions. Councilwoman Bennington
stated if there is an issue he isn’t happy with he can
bring it to Council and let them know he didn’t like an
answer. Councilman Cooper stated if they did the workshop
they would hear the issue instantly and they wouldn’t have
to have 40 different meetings and they could solve the
whole problem with one meeting.
Mayor Thomas stated they are talking on a moot point. They
have already voted to initiate contract negotiations with
Mr. Barlow. If Councilman Cooper wanted to interview him
he had that personal right. Councilwoman Rhodes stated she
feels there should be a resume’ on file.
Dominic Capria
, 606 Topside Circle, agreed with Mr. Rogers.
He feels they should have workshops and he thinks what
Mayor Thomas or anybody else knows should come out. Mrs.
Rogers doesn’t seem to care. He thinks what is happening
is they have too much nepotism. Councilwoman Rhodes stated
they haven’t heard anything come out. Mr. Capria stated
but he thinks she knows what is going on. They all know
what is going on. Bring it out.
Councilwoman Rhodes stated any time you want to bring it
out she is more than happy to bring it out.
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Council Regular Meeting
January 26, 2009
Carol Ann Stoughton
, 2740 Evergreen Drive, stated they all
said Mr. Hooper did a fantastic job. Well he didn’t. They
must admit to that. Councilwoman Rhodes stated she still
disagrees with that. Ms. Stoughton stated she guessed she
liked debt. It seems that the Council allowed the Fire
Department and it’s union to come forward and allow them to
get rid of Mr. Williams like that. She doesn’t feel the
Fire Department has any say or any right to come to the
meeting and demand somebody’s resignation and then they
have the Fire Company running our town. That is what all
the citizens are saying right now. Tracey has done a good
job as Fire Chief. If Mr. Barlow does get the Council’s
okay she intends to go further up the line to agencies to
let them decide if what the Council is doing is right. She
knows Mr. Bennett is a great man. Mr. Cousins is a great
man but what they are looking for in the Fire Department is
more houses, more people, more lieutenants and more
captains. What about the people that don’t have jobs? She
thinks $120,000 with perks is a lot of money in today’s
economy. She thinks they need someone that is unbiased and
not from the area to run our City. She again mentioned Mr.
Barlow telling her he didn’t have to answer her when she
asked a question. She was accused with the last Police
Chief of threatening a public official which was not the
case and that was about what Ms. Rogers is putting up with.
They are there to speak their minds whether the Council
likes it or not. If they want to expose they are going to
expose. She intends to go far up to get people
investigated. She hopes they are all clean because they
are all going to be looked into. She wanted to know if the
Mayor would supply water to the Restoration project because
he applied for the water rights. She wanted to know if
that was forthcoming. Mayor Thomas asked her what she was
talking about. Ms. Stoughton informed him he knew what she
was talking about. Mayor Thomas told her she was
absolutely crazy.
12. ADJOURNMENT
There being no further business to discuss, Councilwoman
Bennington moved to adjourn. The meeting adjourned at
11:19 p.m.
Minutes submitted by:
Lisa Bloomer
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Council Regular Meeting
January 26, 2009