05-19-1987 Workshop
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BUILDING TRADES REGULATORY AND APPEALS
WORKSHOP MEETING
MAY 19, 1987; 7:00 P.M.
CITY HALL CONFERENCE ROOM
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BOARD
MINUTES
Chairman Ogram called the workshop meeting to order at 7:00 P.M., May 19, 1987
in the City Hall Conference Room. The workshop meeting was called to discuss
unlicensed contractors working within the city limits of Edgewater.
Members present were: Les Ogram, Douglas Cole, Frank Hall, Larry Swets and Lester
Yarnell. Also present were Dennis Fischer, Building Official/Code Enforcement
Officer and Jan Morris, Secretary. Member Norman Cox was absent.
Chairman Ogram introduced new members Mr. Yarnell and Mr. Swets to the Board.
Chairman Ogram stated Mr. Bumpus had been appointed to the Board but all attempts
to inform him of the appointment has been futile.
Chairman Ogram turned the floor over to Mike Faidley.
Mr. Faidley stated at this time they felt they had a big problem with unlicensed
contractors and subcontractors working within the city limits of Edgewater.
He added they would like to work out a way to be better regulated and make these
people be legal and work under the same conditions that licensed people are required.
to do.
Mr. Faidley said one of the suggestions was to have all the major subcontractors
listed on the building permit.
Mr. Fischer replied the Building Department was listing the competency card numbers
of the subcontractors on the permits now.
Mr. Faidley stated New Smyrna was requiring that all general contractors, prior to
getting a certificate of occupancy, list all the subcontractors that worked on
the job. This is verifying they actually worked on the job.
Mr. Faidley said he believed all subcontractors should be required to have signage
on their vehicles so that Mr. Fischer does not have to get out of his truck. If
he sees vehicles at the site with signs on them he does not have to check them,
he will know who is working on the job. Mr. Faidley added he would like for
Mr. Fischer to go through periodically and check for comp cards with the city to
see if they are operating legally.
Mr. Faidley said he would like for the code enforcement and inspections to be
separate with the same powers.
Mr. Faidley said that any person trying to get their license to work in the city
should come before the Board before being issued a license. He added anyone
getting an occupational license should probably go through the Code Enforcement
Board.
Chairman Ogram asked if there was not rules on the books now pertaining to all this.
Mr. Faidley replied yes, but we are not getting adequate action on it.
Mr. Fischer explained the warnings that were with all applications to pull a permit.
The warnings are three pages long and pertaining to insurance, hiring unlicensed
subcontractors and the responsibility of the contractor pulling the permit. It
also list the requirements of State Chapter 49. Mr. Fischer said after the warnings
it is the responsibility of the contractor or as the permitting agent to follow
this through.
Mr. Faidley stated now that they had been warned, Mr. Fischer needed to go out and
check them all out.
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Mr. Fischer stated the basic requirements to pull a building permit is an application
from the contractor of record. The Contractor of record must be state licensed,
either certified or registered with a current license and a current comp card with
the city. If he resides in the city he must have an occupational license to go along
with these. If he resides elsewhere he must furnish the paperwork to obtain his
compentency card.
Mr. Fischer said subcontractors, either electrical, plumbing or mechanical, are
required by law to make application at the time of the building permit. These are
also checked to make sure they have state license and comp cards. Mr. Fischer
added there are sub-subcontractors, like someone who does the framing, concrete,
overhangs and those areas not required to be directly listed. The only ones that
we are required to list are the general contractor and the three main subcontractors.
Mr. Fischer said as the law reads if you are going to work with a subcontractor
you must be responsible , you must carry the workmens compensation. He added
minor subcontractors have to furnish to the contractors information such as
insurance, licenses, etc.. He stated the City will issue the minor subcontractors
a comp card but it is just permission to work within the City. Again they show
us the insurance papers, copies of other licenses etc.
There was a lengthy discussion regarding workmens compensation and the responsibility
to carry it. Mr. Fischer stated the responsibility lies with the general
contractor who pulls the permit. He is responsibile for every sub who works on
the job other than the three major subcontractors listed on the permit.
The Chairman of the Construction State Licensing Board was present and stated that
the general contractor is responsible. If he hires a subcontractor who does not
have insurance then the general contractor is responsibile for the workmens
compensation, unemployment insurance and must also carry the liability insurance.
Mr. Fischer stated if anyone has a complaint, the Building Department has a form
that you may come in and fill out if you believe a violation exist. This will
compell him to investigate the complaint and act upon it.
Mr. Faidley asked if there was a separation of enforcement and inspections, would
this not take care of anonymous complaints.
Mr. Fischer stated the City doesn't have the facilities or crew to go out and police
the situations therefore a lot of the responsibility has to go back to the
contractors. He added if someone made a complaint that was a violation of Chapter
489 then he would have to investigate and forward it on to the State.
There was a question of why this could not be done on a local level. Mr. Fischer
replied because that is a state violation and the local can only pull the comp
card for the city.
There was a lengthy discussion regarding unlicensed builders and complaints that
must be filed to take action on any contractor. It was stated if a person felt
there was enough evidence and did not want to get the city involved then they
should call the state in. They would come down and investigate and talk to all
the subcontractors.
Mr. Fischer explained that the comp card numbers are being put on the permit now
after being checked to see if they are current. He also related to the Board
that the contractors have to sign a affidavit that it is he who is actually
pulling the permit and the contractor is the one who is held liable regardless if
he sold the permit.
Mr. Fischer stated that the builder needs to at the time of closing, supply the
buyer with a list of the subcontractors that worked on their house. If there
are problems with the house then the owner can get in touch with the contractor
that did the work instead of the City being a policing agency. If the people
are selling their license they can lose their license and be fined.
The Board discussed the comp card numbers being written on the permits and
requested that the names be used instead of the numbers.
Building Trades Regulatory and Appeals
May 19, 1987
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Chairman Ogram reviewed the suggestions made by Mr. Faidley. The suggestions
included all major subcontractors being listed on the building permits;
Contractors providing to the building department a list of all subcontractors
that worked on the job prior to getting a C.O.; Signage on vehicles; Separation
of enforcement and inspection.
Chairman Ogram asked to schedule another meeting to continue the discussion
on the above subjects. The Board was agreeable to this. The secretary is
to check the calendar and to call the Board with the next meeting date.
Mr. Yarnell informed the Board he would be out of town until sometime in July.
There being no further business to come before the Board Mr. Hall made a motion
to adjourn the meeting. Motion seconded by Mr. Swets. Meeting adjourned at
8:50 P.M.
Minutes Respectfully Submitted By:
Jan Morris
Building Trades Regulatory and Appeals Board
May 19, 1987
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