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10-09-1979 .. u 'I CITY OF EDGEWATER BOARD OF ADJUSTMENT AND APPEALS (Building Code) October 9, 1979 Chairman Milan Griffith called the meetina to order at 7~30 P.M. in the Edgewater City Hall. The meeting was'called as a preliminary hearing on a complaint brought by Mr. Lawson against Duke Construction. 'ROt L"'C'AL L ~1r. Griffith Mr. Troutner Mr. Harris Mr. Hall Mr. Cole A'l'so "'Pr-es'ent: Present Present Present Present Excused Mr. Pirtle - State Construction Board Mr. Murphy - Building Official ~1 r. L 0 e f f 1 e r Mr. Zeller Mr. Grimes r.1r. Lawson ~1 r. 0 pal Mr. Berman ~1r. Gregory Mr. ~J e b s t e r Mr. Holahan ~1ayor Chri sty Miss Straub Mr. Griffith: This is a preliminary hearing to hear the facts. There won't be any decision tonight on the facts that we hear. There will however be a decision rendered next week at our reaular scheduled meetinn. The file on the complaint came to the Building Code Board from Mr. Pirtle. Mr. Pirtle: You are talkinq about William Lawson, Duke Construction and Paul Loeffler? . Mr. Griffith: Yes we are. I think probably, if you would Mr. Pirtle, you could fill the Board in on this complaint. Mr. Pirtle: I received an affidavit from Mr. Lawson dated the 15th of August, 1979 wherein he states that he entered into a contract with Douglas Duke doina business as Duke Construction Co. I think you have a CODY of that contract. Mr. Lawson tells me, in a note that he' attached to this, and 1 think you have a copy, that he dealt only with Mr. Duke, he did not deal with Mr. Paul Loeffler at all. His contract was not with him. Mr. Loeffler pulled the permit as Consolidated and signed for it and I believe he showed that Mr. Duke was the owner. We refer to that as a violation of Florida Statute 468112 2a this is a violation of state law that a 1 icensed contractor has aided and abetted an unlicensed contractor. What you don't have and I think I've only gotten it since this matter came up is an affidavit from our office in Jacksonville which indicates that Mr. Duke is' not licensed. Therefore, in my opinion, this makes it an aiding an abetting case by Mr. Loeffler helping an unlicensed man in order to enter int9 a contract to construct a home. The unfortunate thing about this is that apparently they entered into nroblems and Mr. Lawson oaid somethinq like ten or eleven tho~sand dollars a~d then Mr. Duke abandon~d the job, y~t the permit was taken out by Mr. Loeffler. Mr. Griffith' The complaint says abandoned contractual agreement according to the Deoartment of Professional and Occupational Regulations of the Florida Construction industry. r~ ~ (.) Mr. Pirtle: I did not enter into the reasons that Duke might have left Mr. Lawson I assumed Mr. Lawson might be here tonight. I do not know Mr. Lawson nor do I know Douglas Duke. I have today prepared a case aoainst Mr. Duke for beinq an unlicensed contractor and I have mailed that t6 the State Attorney's o*fice in New Smyrna Court House Annex to file charges against him of criminal violations for not having a license and contractinq without a license. I brouqht this complaint before this Board because it'was required bv law that wherebv there is a local Board that has jurisdiction over contractors, I was reouired to bring this to your attention. I believe that your ordinance sets out grounds on disciplinary action on contractors that might enter into violations of this type. Mr. Griffith: Thank you very much, Mi. Pirtle. Mr. Lawson, would you mind coming up here please? As you know, Mr, Lawson, we have a situation here right now as far as the complaint which is abandonment of contract. We have a copy of your letter to Mr. Pirtle and to Duke Construction. We have also tried to contact Duke Construction and qot the letter back. Could you fill us in on what exactly happened and-at what point they roandoned the project, what stage of construction was it in? Mr. Lawson: This is going to be difficult for me to give you the exact stage it was in because I was in New York at the time. I did receive a phone call, a very distressing one, saying that the contractor who I had engaged had flown the COOD, if you want to out it in the vernacular of what happened. Nothing was happening and probably I would be owing some money to some of the subcontractors which is indeed the truth. Mr. Griffith: Is that your situation right now? Mr. Lawson: I have finished, I am in the house now. Mr. Griffith: Mr, Grimes finished the house? Mr. Lawson! Yes. Mr. Griffith: Do any of the Board members have any Questions? Charlie do you know at what stage the house was actually at when Mr. Grimes took over? Mr. Murphy: I don't think the framing inspection had been made. I think that is' about when Joe Grimes took over. Yes, it was the framing. Mr. Griffith! This would be prior to the framing inspection it was abandoned? Mr. Murphy: Yes. Mr. Griffith: Mr. Lawson, do you know if anyone .. you had no knowledge of the other contractor being involved? Mr. Lawson: What other contractor? Mr. Griffith: Mr. Loeffler. Mr. Lawson: I don I t even know who Mr. Loeffl er is. Mr. Griffith: You had no knowledge of that. contact Paul Loeffler on this? Charlie did you try to Mr. Murphy: I didn't know anything about it until Joe Grimes came in and told me he was going to take over the job and I told him I had to have a letter from the owner and that is when I found out there was another owner. That letter'.twas in the file. I didn't know there \'!as anyone else involved in i't. Mr. Griffith: You didn't know about Mr. Lawson at all? Mr. ~1urph'y=, No. Mr. Lawson; I bought the property five years a~o. Mr. Murohy: It is not required to show a deed and that is where the mystery comes i~.~ The owner builder is required to show a deed. Mr. Loeffler: I don't know anything about this exceot what I'm hearing right now and I don't know where all these extra people came from. Douglas Duke and I came into City Hall and bought a permit for the house. He was the 2 ,~ p o the owner and I was the contractor. That's all there is to it. I was being his instructor and see that he built the house according to the code. I don't know where all these other neople came from. Mr. Griffith: You didn't know anythinq about Mr. Lawson? Mr. Loeffler: No, I didn't. If Duke abandoned the house I can't help thqt, He is the owner as far as I'm concerned. If he ever wants to come back and finish it he can renew his permit and finish it. Mr. Lawson: Fortunately it is finished, Mr. Loeffler. Mr. Loeffler: I'm glad to hear that. I did see my permit down there with somebody else's name on it and I don't think that is right. Mr. Griffith; Mr. Grimes, maybe you had better join us up here too. 1 gather that Mr. Lawson contacted you to finish the house? Mr. Grimesl That's right. Mr. Griffith: Did you make any effort to contact Mr. Loeffler? Mr. Grimes! I didn't know he had anything to do with it. Mr. Griffith: How about the permit that was posted on the job? Mr. Grimes: Well there was a permit posted on the job but it had been rained on so much, the only thing I could make out on it was Duke. In the process of trying to determine who the subcontractors that were already obligated or who had already been committed on the job were, I decided to put the permit in my name. That is when I went to Charlie and told him I wanted to put the permit in my name. That's when Loeffler's name came into it. Mr. Griffith: At that point Charlie told you that Loeffler had taken out the permit? Mr. Grimes: Well, this was apparently on the record. I didn't know Duke, I did know Paul Loeffler but I didn't know that Consolidated had anythinq to do with Paul Loeffler. Mr. Griffith: You just saw Consolidated Contractors on the permit? Mr, Grimesl Well, on the original permit you could read the name Duke Construction as the owner. I didn't know Duke, I had seen the truck around here. At the bottom of the permit you could read Consolidated Construction but r didn't know who Consolidated was. Mr. Griffith: So after Charlie notified you that was Paul Loeffler did you make contact with him at that time? Mr. Grimes: \~ith who? Mr. Griffith: Hith Mr. Loeffler. Mr. Grimes: Yes, I called him cause I was trying to find out who the subcontractors were because the rouoh plumbinq had been done in the house and the temporary power pole had been installed. I wanted to use the same oeople who had started the house orovided they were acceptable. Frank was d~tn~ the plumbing and Electrical tonstruction Co. was doing the electric part. Nothing else had been committed. Mr. Griffith: Who was doing the carpentry? It looks like that had been started. Mr. Grimes: No there was no carpentry work done except the roof trusses had"been installed, the floors poured, the block walls were up and that's all. Mr. Griffith: Who installed the roof trusses? Mr. Lawson: I think that was Ooil Reed. In desperation to ke~p-the project going and try to have the house-finished AU0ust 1st and this was in the 3 r. ~ (.) middle of July. Mr. Grimes: I was building a house about three doors down the street and this is how I got in touch with Mr. Lawson. Mr. Griffith: When you contacted Paul about the subs did he inform you then that was his permit? Mr. Loeffler: He asked me if he could finish the job and I said if it was alright with Duke he could go ahead and finish it, it didn't make any difference to me because Duke was the owner. Mr. Griffith: You weren't aware that Duke had skipped town? Mr. Loefflerl I haven't seen Duke since before July, that was the last time I was on the job. Mr. Troutner: In the application for the building permit it says will ~ner occupy building and it states no, Mr. Loeffler: It really doesn't make any difference, he had a contract to build it, Mr, Troutner: Up here is the owner's name. Mr. Loeffler: The owner's name is Duke, Mr. Troutner: Yes, but it says the owner won't occupy it. Mr. Loeffler: If he is building it under a contract it doesn't make any difference whether he occuoies it or not. Mr. Hall: You can hire somebody to build your house and then resell it. Mr. Troutner: Okay, I just had that circled to ask a Question about. Mr. Griffith: Gene, do you have any questions? Mr. Harris! I don't believe I have any questions at this time. Mr, Griffith: Frank, do you have any questions? Mr, Hall: No, I don't have any now. Mr. Griffith: Charlie, do you have any Questions or comments? Mr. Murohy: No, ,not really, Everything I have, all the material I have on this' you've got. Mr. Griffith: Well, we haven't had much time to study this but it apoears right now that there is a bit of a problem between Mr. Loeffler and Mr. Grimes. Mr. Grimes: No there is no problem between Loeffler and myself. I entered into a new contract with Mr. Lawson and I comoleted his house and he has moved in. I gave him a price to finish his house exactly like it was when I found it, when he took me up there and showed it to me. Mr. Lawson and I are all squared up. Mr, Loeffler: If Duke gave up the job, my permit should have come off the job. But I didn't know he gave it up. I didn't know that until tonight. Mr. Murphy: The main problem is that Duke was not the owner. Mr. Loeffler: I didn't have anyway of knowing that. Mr. Lawson: That is a crazy statement to say you didn't have anyway of knowing he wasn't the owner. I've been payinq taxes on the property and I presume there is some sort of place in the County of Volusia that would be able to substantiate the fact that Mr. Duke wasn't the owner. Maybe it doesn~t mean anything at this point. In my abstract it clearly defines from sometime in 1800 to where the deed has passed on to my wife and myself. Mr. Griffith: Charlie, at one time you used to look up the legals. 4 - . ~ o Mr. Murphy: ~o, I never did. The only time I ever looked it up was if someone asked me a question about it. l~e do re~uire an owner~builder to show proof of ownership of the property. They have to brinq us in a deed and we make a copy of the deed. Mr. Griffith: Gene, you had a question? Mr. Harris: I wanted to ask Paul - you say you had a contract with Mr. Duke to build the house? Mr. Loeffler: We had an agreement. Mr. Harris: Just an agreement? Mr. Loeffler: I would take out his permit and instruct him on how to build the house, Mr. Harris: But you didn't have a contract? Mr. Loeffler: Just a verbal agreement. Mr. Pirtle, Mr. Chairman, may I say something? Mr. Griffith: Yes. Mr. Pirtle: Mr. Lawson dealt with Mr. Duke, he did not deal with Mr. Loeffler. Put yourself in that position, if you are having a house built and deal with a contractor and write up a contract, you expect that man to build your house. What happened was that he \~as unlicensed and it was unlawful for him to enter into a contract, unlawful for him to engage in the business of contracting. In order to get a permit, he got Mr, Loeffler to pull the permit which is aiding and abetting an unlicensed person, Now, Mr. Loeffler, as a contractor, could subcontract with another iicensed contractor but he certainly cannot with an unlicensed man so this is the point in question. Mr. Lawsonr never dealt with the man who Dulled the permit, Mr. Griffith: Paul, do you have any other comments that you would like to make? Mr. Loeffler: Just that 1'm a licensed contractor, I can hire a carpenter and he doesn't need a license of any kind to build a house for me. Mr, Pirtle:, Mr. Chairman that's true. Employees of a contractor need not be licensed, but when an unlicensed employee engages in contracting he needs a license. This was Duke's case. He was a carpenter by trade, I think, and he had no license and had no right whatsoever to be negotiating a contract. Had Mr. Lawson dealt with Mr. Loeffler and'there had been a contract there would be no violation. Mr. Loeffler; I had no way of knowing he wasn't building this house himself. He made out the application amd Charlie issued the permit. I don't know where these other people enter into this deal at all. Mr. Griffith: Mr. Pirtle, I do have one Question. This charge, per se, right now is abandonment of the project. Mr. Pirtle: No, the abdonment part is secondary to me. I am concerned with the man who Dulled the Dermit and assisted an unlicensed person and we have orovided YOU with a contract showina that he did not deal with Mr. Loef~ler. I'~ not conc~rned too much with the abandonment. Sure he got out of here and I don't know where he went. The initial violation is the licensed man helping an unlicensed man. Mr. Griffith: Mr. Harris: Mr. Griffith, Mr. Grimes: Mr. Griffith: Mr. Loeffler: Gene any other questions or comments? No. Mr. Grimes any other ouestions or commeQt,? No. Paul any other questions or comments? No. 5 '. . ~ u Mr. Griffith: Mr. Lawson? Mr. Lawson: I would like to make a small comment, which is probably not relevent to the situation. I do know that there are unquestionably mitigating circumstances, to Mr. Duke and the behavior which he did, what it is I don't know but I have heard through the grapevine that he probably had some domestic problems sometime along the way. I'm glad they are his and not mine. The gentleman, when I met him, seemed to be a sincere young man, and whereas, I hate to have my pockets picked, I can't really condem the young man, because I don't know all the circumstances. I'm not savinq that I'm a qreat forqiver or anything like that when it comes to as much money as I think"that; maybe had happened. I never met Mr. Loeffler before, I don't know anything about this, and as far as I'm concerned I would have under the circumstances, entered into the contract with complete, I guess I could be colored a little naive or something, I don't know. Mr. Griffith: Well you had no way of knowing. Mr. Lawson: Well I had no way of knowing and I don't hold any animosity towards anybody as far as this situation is concerned. I know when I received Mr. Pirtle1s letter, I was very gratified to hear from him and to know that s~mebody was thinking in the right direction, if something else has happened between something is wrong that I don't know anything about, that's not for me to decide or for me to even try to push it in any particular direction. I would just like to think that maybe something could come out of this that might make some other poor ~nsuspectinq character coming down from the north, a little bit more protected. . . Mr. Griffith: Are you still short money on this whole transaction? Mr. Lawson: Yes, I was trying to figure it out today and it gets involved. It is somewhere between seven and eiqht thousand dollars. I had advanced monies to Duke and then I found out later, well Doug Cole for example I had to pay almost $2,000 and Ogil Read I paid $2200 to put up the trusses, and fill and clearing and the outside plumbing. Mr. Griffith: All the subcontractors are satisfied now. Mr. Lawson: Right, as far as I know. I hope so. Mr, Grimes: Well, I knew all the subcontractors and I had used most of them before. It's all clean that had anything to do with the portion of Mr, Lawson's house that I did. I took the job as it was and he, I under- stand and the reason that I am certain that everything has been taken care of as far as that cause I know everybody that was involved in it. Mr. Griffith: Do you know Paul has everyone been paid? Mr. Loeffler: I didn't know anything about the money, I didn't handle it. He was paying me for what I did, Mr. Griffith: Charlie, do you have any comments? Mr. Murphy: No. Mr. Griffith: Frank, any comments? Mr. Hall: The only thing I have to say is that Banner Realty, I'm sure, is the people that got you in touch with Duke didn't they? Mr. Lawson: That is how I heard of the name, yes. and said he1s a good man. Mr. Griffith: I asked some members of Banner Realtv to come here tonia,ht. John, would you mind coming up here and filling us in a little bit on this? A couple of questions have come u~, You apparently recommended Duke Coostruction to Mr. Lawson. They recommended him Mr. Zeller: We introduced him to Mr. Lawson and Mr. Lawson sat down with Doug Duke and myself. We didn't know any more than Mr. Lawson knew about Doug Duke really. Mr. Griffithl Is this the first and only house that he built, to your knowledge? 6 . ,. ~ ~ o Mr. Zeller: I understand that he worked for Abe Sindler as a subcontractor. I assume as a subcontractor9 I really don't know. Mr. Griffith: Do you know of any other circumstances where Doug Duke himself as Duke Construction entered into a contract with someone to build their home? Mr. Zeller: No, 11m not aware of it. Mr. Griffith: Do anv other members have a Question of John while he's here? Thank you very much John I appreciate it. Mr. Lawson= The decision was mine to make, I was just introduced by Mr. Zeller, Mr, Griffith: We are just trying to get information. Charlie do you know of any other contracts or permits pulled by Duke Construction? Mr. Murphy; No, not as far as I know. I'd heard the name Duke Construction as a framing contractor, Mr. Griffith: Frank, do you have any more questions. Mr. Hall: No, I know Duke. I thought he was a re9ular contractor because I ftgured at least a dozen plans for him in a three month period. He was going to do a lot of stuff. so he said. Mr. Griffith: Well, I know that he advertised at one time in some magazine as a general contractor. I assumed myself that he was, a few months back. Is this the situation, Paul, that you entered into a contract with Douglas Duke. Mr. Loefflerl He was a good builder and a good carpenter so I didn't see how ne could go wrong building his own house, Mr, Griffith: Well, if there are no other comments or Questions then I ~elieve that this hearinq can be ended. We will studv"the facts and the information we have been-given and render our decision-next week at our regular meeting. The Preliminary Hearing was adjourned. Minutes submitted by Nancy Blazi The minutes of this Preliminary Hearing on the comolaint against the Duke Construction brought by Mr. Lawson were typed" verbati~ at the request of the Chairman of the Building Code Board, Mr. Griffith. I I I I , .1 I 1 . 7