12-05-2005 - Regular
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CITY COUNCIL OF EDGEWATER
REGULAR MEETING
DECEMBER 5, 2005
7:00 P.M.
COMMUNITY CENTER
MINUTES
1 . CALL TO ORDER
Mayor Thomas called the Regular Meeting to order at 7:00
p.m. in the Community Center.
ROLL CALL
Mayor Michael Thomas
Councilwoman Debra Rogers
Councilman Dennis Vincenzi
Councilwoman Harriet Rhodes
Councilwoman Judith Lichter
City Manager Kenneth Hooper
City Clerk Susan Wadsworth
Deputy City Clerk Lisa Bloomer
Paralegal Robin Matusick
Present
Present
Present
Present
Present
Present
Excused
Present
Present
INVOCATION, PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE
There was a silent invocation and pledge of allegiance to
the Flag.
2. APPROVAL OF MINUTES
A. Special Meeting of September 12, 2005
B. Regular Meeting of September 12, 2005
C. Special Meeting of September 26, 2005
D. Regular Meeting of September 26, 2005
E. Special Meeting of November 9, 2005
Counci~woman Lichter moved to approve Items A, B, C, D, and
E, second by Counci~woman Rhodes.
The MOTION CARRIED 5-0.
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3. PRESENTATIONS/PROCLAMATIONS/PLAQUES/CERTIFICATES/DON
ATIONS
There were no Presentations at this time.
4. CITIZEN COMMENTS
The following citizens spoke:
~ke Visconti, 316 Pine Breeze Drive, congratulated Mayor
Thomas, Councilwoman Rogers and Councilwoman Rhodes for
running a good campaign and he wished them all the luck in
the world. He hoped it was good for Edgewater in the
future.
James Logan, 1830 Victory Palm Drive, commented on the
driving going on on SR 442. There is going to be a massive
accident there and people are going to be killed or houses
are going to blow up. He lives on the corner of SR 442 and
Victory Palm Drive. He complained over two years ago when
they were widening SR 442. They are going too fast. He
commented on an accident that occurred a half-hour earlier
on SR 442. He heard some rumor that people complained it
was an entrapment because of the speed limit. You don't
get trapped if you aren't breaking the law. He has seen
people go by his house doing 60 or 70 miles per hour. He
feels SR 442 is a racetrack. He commented on the Sheriff's
Department going by his house at 80 or 90 miles per hour.
He feels something has to be done. He commented on an
accident he witnessed the other night at Umbrella Tree and
SR 442. He spoke about the second police officer that
arrived that pulled up and started talking to the first
police officer that arrived and nobody was directing
traffic. He feels there is going to be an accident that is
going to be catastrophic. He suggested they put police
there all hours of the day, not just when it is convenient.
Councilwoman Rhodes stated she saw that accident on her way
to the meeting and there was nobody directing traffic.
City Manager Hooper agreed to look into this.
Councilwoman Lichter asked what action they took after his
first complaints. City Manager Hooper stated he didn't
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recall a first complaint.
complaints both ways.
They have had numerous
Councilwoman Lichter commented on complaints she received
regarding the police being too cautious after Willow Oak
out to 1-95. She commented on being able to go faster
because there aren't residents on both sides.
Councilwoman Rhodes stated she hasn't had any complaints
about it since the speed limit was changed to 55. She
suggested they put the cart out so people can see how fast
they are going.
Mayor Thomas stated he also has some innovative ideas. He
hasn't had a chance to talk to the Police Chief yet. When
he gets the opportunity he will talk to him. He spoke to
him at the Department Head meeting regarding having some
type of reserve program. There are lot of people that want
to volunteer their time that are willing to buy their own
uniforms and guns and provide their own training.
Barbara C~iIton Sanchez, 1619 Pine Tree Drive, asked why
Edgewater doesn't have a committee for condo free
waterfront and a height limit like Oak Hill has.
City Manager Hooper stated there has never been a
discussion about such. The last time the Land Development
Code was updated there were several inquiries and through
the e-mail and the newsletter seeking ideas and suggestions
from citizens. He didn't recall that ever being discussed.
Councilwoman Lichter questioned Oak Hill just recently
establishing theirs. Ms. Sanchez stated she spoke to City
Clerk Terwilliger and it has been established for probably
a year. Ms. Sanchez stated it is a very good committee
they have and she feels Edgewater needs a committee like
that.
Councilwoman Lichter stated there are no height
restrictions as of this moment so it may have to be
addressed. Ms. Sanchez stated they retired here. She
moved here from Key West. She commented on the way Key
West was back in the 1940's. Her dad over 60 years ago
took her out on Miami Beach and the only hotel was the
Fountain Blue. If someone doesn't put a limit to
development you will see the river is polluted now. She
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often wonders if the Planning and Zoning Board wears
blinders when they go in to talk about the subdivisions
going up and the condos. She went to see her sister in
Naples and it is nothing but a concrete jungle. You can't
even see the beach. They moved here because it was a nice
quaint little town. She feels they need to get a committee
on the condos to not have them near the river or on the
river to protect our environment. She has seen too much
sensitive land be destroyed in Florida. The land is being
destroyed really bad and someone really needs to put a stop
to some of it.
Councilwoman Rogers stated there are going to be some
comments made tonight and she is prepared. One of the
items she is going to talk about is height restrictions.
That is something she is very concerned about. It was one
of the items she always mentioned on her campaign.
Ms. Sanchez stated that was why she voted for her. She
thoroughly believed in her and she went to the first
meeting they had and her mind wasn't made up until she
heard Councilwoman Rogers and Mayor Thomas' speeches. She
was very impressed.
Ms. Sanchez stated she doesn't want to be run out of
another concrete jungle. This is her place and this is
where she plans to stay.
Mayor Thomas stated he has had two meetings with City
Manager Hooper so far and one of his suggestions is going
to be to create an environmental committee.
Bob Morin, 1410 Mango Tree Drive, CAPS member, feels the
people need to slow down. They have police officers all
over the place every day. He commented on people not
stopping at stop signs. He can't arrest or chase anybody
because he is only a CAP. He feels the people need to be
talked to, not just the Chief and the officers. The older
people don't want to listen. He is there twenty-four hours
a day every day and he does this for nothing. He feels the
CAP members need to be told to stop people to try and help
the Police Department.
Councilman Vincenzi informed Mr. Morin nobody is saying
they aren't doing a great job. He stated Mayor Thomas was
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talking about reserve police officers that have the power
to stop and arrest.
~ke Schmitt, President of the Mission Oaks Homeowners
Association, expressed concerns about Oak Leaf Preserve.
He was over at Planning & Zoning today and it shows a storm
drain running from one of their retention systems onto
their retention system. Their retention system is defunct
and doesn't work. It is 2 ~ feet below the floodplain.
They are getting ready to take the developer, Mr. Williams,
to court over this. They cannot take any water from this
project. It will put them several feet under water. He
informed Council he had pictures of the original retention
systems that they are looking to tie into. He stated he
doesn't know who owns the retention ponds. He was told
Mission Oaks owns them.
City Manager Hooper stated the new ones are owned by the
homeowners association, the new ones that are going to be
installed. Mr. Schmitt stated they are showing a storm
drain tying into theirs. Theirs hasn't been touched in
twenty-five years.
Councilwoman Rhodes asked who owns Mission Oaks. City
Manager Hooper stated it is privately owned, it's not
public. Councilwoman Rhodes asked who it was owned by.
City Manager Hooper stated either by whoever has it platted
or deeded. It is a very old plat so it is nothing to do
with how we do business.
Councilwoman Rhodes questioned tying into it. City Manager
Hooper stated they can't tie into it. Mr. Schmitt stated
that is what they are showing. They are showing it tying
into the end of their swale that doesn't exist.
City Manager Hooper stated they could discuss this further
when they get to that item on the agenda. Their engineers
were present and could address that. Mr. Schmitt stated
Jack Hayman is very well aware of their flooding problems.
He has been out there several times.
John Cordeiro, 1515 Pine Tree Drive, stated he was in the
process of working with a realtor in North Carolina. He
wasn't going to allow any more of his tax money be used to
hurt the people in Edgewater. If this election didn't turn
out the way it did, he was out of here but now the move is
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on hold. He is looking at the future of Edgewater and that
is in the hands of the new Council and Mayor. The most
important item is before Council right now. If they allow
two towers, sixteen stories high to be built on Jones Fish
Camp Road, this will be the beginning of the end for
Edgewater. He presented Council with photographs from on
top of the lighthouse. He has spoken to several families
who live on Jones Fish Camp Road and they are not happy.
They spent all their hard earned money to live there to
escape the very same thing the builder is trying to force
on them. There are turtles, horned owls and other animal
life on that property and it looks like a lot of wetlands
to him. He went to the Ponce Inlet lighthouse, which is
175 feet tall. He took pictures looking down on the houses
below. He wanted to get that view to know what would
happen to the people on Jones Fish Camp Road. He stated
sixteen stories are higher than the lighthouse. These
people that live there have feelings. He asked the Council
to please not let this happen. If they do there will be
more corning because they will have set a precedent. If
they do it for one, they will have to do it for another.
This will only be the beginning of Edgewater and the river.
He feels people's lives, happiness and environment will be
destroyed. Edgewater's future is in the Council's hands.
They all carne here for the small town atmosphere and some
of these multi-millionaires want to change that. The
taxpayers of this City own the City and the Council works
for them and can stop it and control it. He hoped the
Council would do what is right.
Councilwoman Rogers stated the workshop they had that Mr.
Cordeiro attended a few weeks ago, one thing that has
already happened on that property that she disagreed with
is the property is zoned high density and it was approved
for eight to twelve units. As she said during the
workshop, they are stuck. That property was zoned that
way. If they could undo it, she would be the first one to
start it. At this point, that owner has that property
right to build high density and it's also multi-family.
That has happened so this Council has to take that and go
forward and they are going to do the best they can.
Mr. Cordeiro stated two people that voted for this aren't
here anymore. He questioned if this can be brought up for
another vote. Councilwoman Rogers informed him it couldn't
be. Mr. Cordeiro can't believe that people can be so
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greedy or whatever it is, they have to have more money.
What about people? We have feelings. Councilwoman Rogers
stated she is digging to find out if there is a way but
right now it has been zoned.
Councilwoman Lichter stated eighty percent of that land is
going to be left free. They will not be allowed and they
aren't planning to build on 80% of it.
Mayor Thomas stated they could discuss this further when it
comes up.
Bob Harney, 129 Jones Fish Camp Road, stated he appreciates
people like Mr. Cordeiro who doesn't live on their street
to come here and fight for them. He has no problem with
single-family homes. He understands there has to be
development. You can't get away from it. He used to live
in Daytona and he came down here to get away from it. He
has no problem with homes. He can put up a privacy fence
to block the view of what he likes to do in his backyard.
He cannot put a privacy fence up for 190-foot tower. He
found it hard to believe that 80% of the land will not be
used. He further commented on the wildlife on this
property. He stated there was a picture in the newspaper
not too long ago of the proposed land that was going to be
developed and the line goes over his property. There is a
drainage ditch behind his yard and he owns nine feet on the
other side of the drainage ditch. He mentioned the height
issue being a dead issue. He hopes it is not. If they
allow these towers to go up, it is the beginning of the
end.
Councilman Vincenzi stated height restrictions are not a
dead issue. Councilwoman Rogers stated she was referring
to the zoning but she is going to hit upon height.
Mr. Harney stated they don't even have City water and they
are happy where they are at. He understands there has to
be development but he feels we don't need the towers.
Gina Ho~tz, 1798 Hideaway Lane, she doesn't see where 16
stories computes with high density zoning allowing eight to
ten units. That is a lot more than eight to ten units.
She asked if there was some sort of zoning or code
requiring some sort of transitional. She feels a 16-story
condo next to a single-family residential home is
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completely unacceptable. She questioned where the eight to
ten units bring in 16 stories.
Councilwoman Rhodes stated high density is eight to ten
units per acre. Ms. Holtz questioned buildable acres.
Councilwoman Rhodes stated no. Councilman Vincenzi stated
that is an issue he has been trying to argue up here for
months. He stated when they talked about the density of
that parcel there were two people that voted against it.
His main reason first was the density, it was too high and
the second was they had no information on the project they
were going to put up. That is what spawned the workshop
they had a few weeks ago. Now they have a lot of
information but it is too late to change the density.
Ms. Holtz then stated so the density is without regard to
how much of that property is actually buildable.
Councilman Vincenzi again stated that is an issue he has
been trying to argue. There is buildable acreage and there
is gross acreage and developers always use gross acreage to
calculate density.
Andy Anderson, Pine Tree Drive, stated in 1958 he moved
from up north to Miami and it was a nice town. Crime was
at a minimum. You didn't have the crowds. In 1959 Castro
took over Cuba. In 1960 and 1961 the Cubans started coming
in and a million of them came in. They had some crime but
the crime went through the roof with all the new people.
When you get more people and you have a lot of fast growth
you have a lot more crime to deal with. He sympathized
with what has been said. He wanted to discourage any kind
of unnecessary growth. The builders are going to make out
beautifully because they are going to make a lot of money
on these condos. He feels these are things they need to
think about if they are talking about growth. He stated
down in Miami if you want to go anywhere it takes you all
afternoon to go a couple of miles. This is what they have
to look forward to if they don't get a handle on growth.
He spoke of coming to Edgewater to get way from it.
Dot CarLson, 1714 Edgewater Drive, President, ECARD, read a
prepared statement. She asked for Item 6G regarding River
Colony Inc to be continued for sixty days for the Council
to give themselves time to study the project. They are
opposed to the permitting of high-rise developments within
the City. They requested fifty feet at the October 12th
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Planning & Zoning Board meeting. Seventy two percent of
the voters through the County last year, including the
residents of Edgewater voiced their concern about unbridled
growth when they passed the urban growth boundary
amendment. They have heard from many Edgewater residents
that they do not want to see their riverfront skyline
become Manhattanized as is happening in Daytona with high
rise condos, apartments and time shares. They proposed to
Council that they sponsor an amendment to the City Charter
establishing a height cap limit of three stories as many
other communities around the state have done and that they
hold a special election by March to put this amendment
before the voters at a referendum election. They have
brought copies with them of the height cap limit just put
into the Jacksonville Beach Charter as an example to
follow. Their group is convinced that the way to ensure
that Edgewater grows to be better not just bigger is to
permit only responsible, sensible and sustainable
development. They are in the process of finalizing several
other charter amendments and would greatly appreciate the
opportunity to work with Council on putting these measures
to a vote of City residents as soon as possible.
Councilman Vincenzi agreed with a lot of what Ms. Carlson
was saying. The only thing he didn't agree with was he
doesn't feel it belongs in the Charter. He feels there
needs to be changes to the Land Development Code, which
they can do. Ms. Carlson stated as long as it can't be
changed at the next meeting. Councilwoman Rhodes stated it
could be changed at any meeting. Councilman Vincenzi
stated to change a code takes quite a bit. Ms. Carlson
stated but to change a Charter takes more. Councilman
Vincenzi again stated he doesn't feel it should be in the
Charter. Ms. Carlson stated it is something they can
ponder. She again asked the Council not to go with the
second reading on Item 6G. She asked them to think about
it for a while. She received twenty calls yesterday and
today from people asking what is going to be done about it.
She would appreciate it if the Council would consider
putting a little time behind themselves and study it a
little bit longer. Obviously the citizens of Edgewater do
not want that.
Councilman Vincenzi stated he had no problem with that.
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Councilwoman Rhodes stated you have a certain amount of
land that is zoned a certain way and they are allowed to
build a certain amount of units per acre. Which would
ECARD rather see? Several three-story buildings that take
up all of the buildable land or would you rather see two
towers that take up 20% of the land and the rest is left
pristine. Ms. Carlson stated they have a double-edged
sword. They either get a lot or they get tall.
Councilwoman Rhodes stated that is the thing Council has
control over at this minute. Ms. Carlson stated they have
a lot of houses that are going into Oak Leaf Preserve and
that is not good either because that is damaging land. She
really didn't know which option was better.
Ms. Carlson suggested on other ordinances the Council vote
on a lower density. Councilwoman Rhodes stated that
guarantees at this point in time that this Council feels
that way but it doesn't guarantee that three Councils from
now it's not going to be a totally different thing. Ms.
Carlson feels maybe that is why they need to get it to a
vote to somebody. This is getting out of hand. As far as
the condos go, she doesn't feel they need to do it. Take
them down, spread them out if you have to and give it a
lesser density. Councilwoman Rhodes stated their density
has already been decided. They are allowed to do that
whether it be in smaller buildings with more of them or
taller buildings with less of them and more of the
environment is maintained. Ms. Carlson asked if it is a
lesser density than the County allowed.
Councilwoman Lichter asked what the property was when it
was in the County. City Manager Hooper stated it was a
mixture of industrial, multi-family, and low density. Ms.
Carlson stated there were three parcels of that that came
in under different names for annexation. You are probably
talking about the 4.22 acre and the one 4.1 acre up to the
front and the 4.22 is River Colony that she is referring to
tonight. These came in on the same time line but under
different ordinances and it all got voted on to one. She
asked Councilwoman Rhodes if that is what she was saying.
Councilwoman Rhodes stated that isn't what she was saying
at all.
City Manager Hooper stated the thirty acres for the two-
story condo came in as a mixed use from the County as a
combination. He stated Ms. Carlson's comment was about the
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four acres for River Colony and that was probably low
density residential when it came into the City.
Ms. Carlson again asked to delay River Colony and stated
ECARD would appreciate it.
Mayor Thomas stated they will take a ten-minute break on
the hour and asked Councilwoman Lichter to remind him.
Pat Card, 3019 Willow Oak Drive, stated something that
people have to remember is when you annex land it comes
into the City with the same zoning that it had in the
County. If he remembers correctly a majority of it was R-g
on that piece of property, which makes it a strong large
dense, maybe not the highest density but it makes it dense.
The second thing that people seem to be forgetting is we
have two eight-story condos damn near right next door.
They have given all the money back on it but most of the
people may not realize the zoning on that piece of property
is RPUD and the zoning goes with the land in the sale. You
are stuck with an RPUD that allows eight stories on that
piece of property no matter who owns it provided building
begins within eighteen months of the time that they get all
their permits. What you have to understand is when you
defer property and they take you to court with it, it's
okay. You fight it and maybe win but chances are you may
not and if you don't those poor people that everybody was
talking about that had already put deposits down on places
like the two eight-story deals and Edgewater Lakes with the
beautiful golf course and stuff they heard about, what
happens is they pull all that back and redevelop it again
with the same RPUD and then increase the price of the
properties by maybe 25-40%. You are kind of stuck here.
You are kind of stuck when you have relatively high County
zoning when it comes before Council. The choice they have
is whether they want to leave the control with the County
or not or whether you want to bring it into the City. If
you bring it into the City, he feels we have some
responsible people here that ask the right questions. Our
chances of being able to get a good development out of this
are a whole lot better with you people looking at it then
they are with the chances they would be able to have some
influence on it with the County.
Gina Ho2tz, 1798 Hideaway Lane, asked Mr. Card if he was
speaking about this on personal level or as a member of the
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Planning and Zoning Board. She feels it would be proper if
when Mr. Card speaks that he should disclose to everybody
that he is also a member of Planning and Zoning.
Councilwoman Lichter stated she served on Planning and
Zoning for six years before becoming a Councilmember. She
probably attended every Council meeting during those six
years. When she spoke she identified that she was a member
of the Planning and Zoning Board and that she was speaking
as a citizen and not for the Board. Ms. Holtz feels it
helps everyone get the big picture.
Mayor Thomas stated that was going to be his next question.
If Mr. Card was speaking as a citizen or a member of the
Planning and Zoning Board.
Mr. Card stated he is always speaking as a citizen when he
addresses the Council. There seems to be some impression
that people on the Planning and Zoning Board get something
out of it. He is retired. His entire income comes from a
pension he receives and his wife's pension from seventeen
years of teaching. He spent thirty years with the same
company. He has no interest in any property in this City
except his own, which is at 3019 Willow Oak Drive in
Florida Shores and he paid $87,500 for it about seven years
ago. He has not received one penny from anything in this
City and worse than that is the only thing he has gotten in
a thank you for any of the time and effort he has spent in
regards to this, he has never even been invited to lunch.
If someone wants to accuse him of gaining something big out
of this, let them go ahead because there is nothing there.
Mayor Thomas stated he missed that if someone accused him.
He got no impression of that.
Frank Hahn, 133 Jones Fish Camp Road, stated he was at a
meeting around July of this year about annexing what he
considers an island of 1.8 acres at the end of their road
that was annexed into the City of Edgewater. It is his
understanding that there were 30 plus or minus acres that
were annexed into the City of Edgewater. They weren't
notified that was happening. They were about the end of
their road at the river. He sits in his backyard in the
evenings and the wildlife in that area is not that much but
there are two owls that have been in that area the whole
time he has been there. He enjoys that. He commented on
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the two sixteen-story towers at 190' in his backyard. He
feels he is going to be living in a fish bowl. He doesn't
know why they weren't notified that they were annexing the
rest of this property into the City. He understands there
is something on the agenda for the 14th of this month about
that as well. Just by chance he heard about the meeting
tonight. He's not happy about it. He doesn't feel the
Council would like it either if people were going to be
able to walk out on their balcony and do a critique on the
way they take care of their property or what they do, maybe
even in his windows should he forget to close his blinds.
He isn't happy at all. He works on condos so he knows what
you can see when you are up on one of those condos and he
doesn't want that in his back yard. He knows there is such
a thing as zoning. He doesn't know about all of that
stuff. He doesn't deal with that but the Council does. He
knows there is such a thing as rezoning and he thinks they
need to do something because he feels they are setting a
precedent for what will happen in the rest of the City. He
stated according to the newspaper, the City is going to
receive close to $1.5 million in revenue from impact fees.
He doesn't know where there are any other sixteen-story
buildings in Edgewater that justify annexing this piece of
the County into the City to build these towers. He doesn't
understand it.
There was a ten-minute recess at this time. The meeting
recessed at 7:55 p.m. and reconvened at 8:07 p.m.
Mayor Thomas stated he would like to expedite this meeting
if they could. He informed the citizens there would be
time during the agenda items to speak on a particular
subject. There is also another time at the end of the
meeting to also comment.
Mayor Thomas again opened up citizen comments.
Dave Ross, 2803 Needle Palm Drive, stated the first week in
October he delivered to every Councilmember a letter
regarding the reclaimed water rates. He read his letter
into the record. The first time there is a six or eight
week drought there are going to be about 500 people here
with $150 water bills for sprinkling their lawns. With his
newly installed reclaimed water meter he has been able to
confirm what he already knew and then tried to get this
Council to not allow the cost to water his lawn with
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reclaimed water using only the very minimum recommended
which is ~ of an inch twice a week at the very minimum in
drought conditions. His water bill for reclaimed water
will be about $130 per month. He lives on a 120' lot but
he also has a rear driveway and a huge outside patio. He
really doesn't have much more grass than most eighty-foot
lots. As a matter of fact he has natural habitat on each
side of his property. An eighty-foot lot will run about
$90 per month. Three quarters of an inch twice a week is
not much water. He was one of the first to sign up for the
system and he was under the impression he was doing the
City and the environment a good deed. He stated he
believed City Manager Hooper told the Council his objective
was to reduce poor customer usage so they could bring on
more customers. He suggested that this system today is
grossly overloaded already. If they are going to expand
the customer base they better look about finding an
expansion of the system first. He titled his letter
converting sewerage to tax revenue. The Enterprise Fund is
not a fund, it is a tax and if he has to pay $150 to keep
his grass green, there will be 200 people in here on top of
the Council's heads.
Mr. Ross congratulated Mayor Thomas, Councilwoman Rogers
and Councilwoman Rhodes.
Mr. Ross also commented on the landscaping that was done on
SR 442. He stated it is gorgeous and they have done a
fantastic job.
City Manager Hooper stated what we are doing is we have
placed meters on all of the reclaimed system. Those are
probably 99% or 100% done. They are going to send out
notices on the water bills that says if we were billing
here is what would be charged. They are trying to give six
months worth of warning and the Council time to react and
see what the numbers are. Their objective is to get
everybody down to about 15,000 gallons for conservation so
that everybody has a reasonable amount of reclaimed water
to put on their yard. He stated Mr. Ross is probably
right. They are probably a little high right now. When
they are looking at them, the consumption is also very
high. They have many people using between 80,000 and
100,000 gallons per month, which is outrageous. The whole
objective is to put conservation in, get into somebody's
wallet and be able to force them to lower it down. You
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will have a six month review time letting the Council know
the number of customers and the amount of water they are
using and then give staff direction on what they want to
do. They aren't billing anyone for a six-month period
until they have had notice and are able to adjust to it.
Mr. Ross questioned City Manager Hooper and asked if what
he is saying is when he shows him it takes 48,000 gallons
per month to do the minimum requirement, he is going to
come to Council and ask if he should lower the rates. City
Manager Hooper stated that is part of what they are going
to be saying. Mr. Ross questioned why they didn't lower
them before they set them if they knew that is what it was
going to take. He stated this is math and not his
imagination and he doesn't understand it.
Councilwoman Rogers stated basically they are charging the
citizens of Edgewater to disperse and get rid of this water
so they can water their lawns with it. If we weren't
charging the citizens of Edgewater to receive this
reclaimed water to water their yards, where would the City
put it, how would they get rid of it, and wouldn't the City
pay to get rid of it. City Manager Hooper stated part of
our permit requirement is reclaimed water, effluent
disposal. Years ago it was dumped into the river, which
from an environmental point is the worst thing you can do.
The requirement was to take it out of the river and by
putting it on yards, what you are trying to do is reduce
the draw on potable water with treated water so you aren't
having people use as much. The Water Management District
discourages taking water out and putting it on irrigation.
They encourage and give you credits and give you money if
you will take reclaimed and spread it around evenly so
everybody gets a fair share of the reclaimed water.
Councilwoman Rogers stated she would like to have a special
meeting at some point to talk about this further. She is
aware in Orange County where property owners with large
tracts of land are paid by Orange County to get rid of the
reclaimed water. City Manager Hooper stated in years past
that occurred. Edgewater's was free. If you looked at
Orange County today it is the exact opposite. They are
charging those grove owners and large tracts for the water
the same as the City is doing.
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Councilwoman Lichter stated she is on the Water Authority
Group. What City Manager Hooper is saying about St. Johns
is correct. They looked at reclaimed water as a treasure
but they also give us credit for having it and for paying
for the system. When we go in for our CUP, which is how
much water this City needs to draw from the wells, St.
John's gives you brownie points for having reclaimed water.
We are one of the few cities that has it. We kind of gave
it away in the beginning. She commented on the cost to put
in a well. She stated maybe we are charging a bit much
until it straightens out but it's not a free giveaway.
It's a special thing.
Councilwoman Rhodes stated our intent is not to make money.
Our intent is to pay what it costs for the City to provide
that service. We don't make money on it obviously, which
is why they have to do this. We have people that use too
much and then people that are paying for it aren't getting
it.
Mayor Thomas asked if they are still permitted to dig a
shallow well. City Manager Hooper informed him yes.
Mayor Thomas stated we are all used to one design of a
green lawn but he has done some research and they call it
landscaping in your front yard. To leave the little
palmetto patches and leave the scrub oaks where you don't
have such a big green lawn to do that. We need to conserve
our water. If you read the paper, one of his predictions
is that a gallon of water will cost more than a gallon of
gasoline in the future. They need to take all means to
conserve our water. We need to encourage the developers as
they are building new homes to look at these new methods of
designing lawns. We are so used to and programmed at doing
things one way. We need to look at some new avenues to
conserve our water.
Fay Levine, 4588 Lake James Circle, stated she has been
following the City of Edgewater for a couple of months now
because the City annexed land that is about one hundred
feet within her property. She offered her condolences to
the two new members on the Council. She feels they have a
lot on their plate. For twenty-six years she lived in a
planned city and it is a shock to hear what is going on in
the City of Edgewater after that experience. Planning is
necessary. It is not an action to just sit and listen and
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do what the builders want. We have the builders, such as
Mike Evans, that are very supportive about the new
Worthington Creek Development. Their concerns were
drainage and he has helped and listened to them more than a
lot of other developers. She stated the Planning and
Zoning Board has to do their homework more than they are
doing from her observation and the Council has to listen
to them as well as staff and to vote down growth at times.
Don't look at the impact fees as a source of revenue for
the City. This growth doesn't mean just the building. It
means services, schools, churches, traffic, and crime. She
commented on the growth in Columbia Maryland. Living in a
planned City is very secure. Planning is a major operation
sitting on the Council. She is sorry they were elected to
this job because she feels their predecessors didn't do
their homework but she hopes they do theirs.
5. CITY COUNCIL REPORTS
Councilwoman Rogers stated there are a few items she would
like to make public that she believes the Council has to
have meetings and discuss with regards to the Land
Development Code. She feels they need to set height
restrictions for the City. She would also like for them to
set up architectural standards for the developments. She
wasn't sure if they can affect the developments that have
already been approved but she believed they could. City
Manager Hooper confirmed they could. She would like to set
up or establish a moratorium for new annexations as well as
rezonings and any new issues coming up at this point. She
knows there are laws they have to follow to establish a
moratorium. She will refer this to City Manager Hooper so
he can discuss it with the City Attorney. At this point
this City has not had planning. There has not been the
fortitude. They need to look down the road to see what is
going on. We have issues with roads. There are so many
issues.
Councilman Vincenzi stated that is the first time he has
ever heard anyone offer condolences on getting elected.
That was pretty good. He feels the people of Edgewater are
going to see some good changes in the near future but it
isn't something that will come easy. It will require a lot
of hard work and determination. He thinks they have the
right mix of people on the Council that will carry it
through.
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Councilwoman Rhodes reported on the MPO meeting she
attended for Mayor Thomas. They set up their priority list
for the next year and their top priority is SR 415 but she
understands they don't have any money so she doesn't know
what is going to happen there.
Councilwoman Rhodes stated she received at her house a
message on her answering machine about a sexual predator
that moved into Florida Shores. She feels this is the best
idea ever. She asked if everybody in the City received it.
Sergeant John Taves stated this is a sexual predator that
has lived in the City for some time. He elected to move
from his residence across the street. Because of the move
they are required by law to notify the citizens in that
area. What they used for the first time is an agency
called A Child is Missing and they will do reverse calls if
a child is missing or an older person with Alzheimer's
wanders away from the home. They also do notifications.
That phone call went out to everyone who has a listed phone
number in the City. They also have flyers going out to the
residents in the immediate area.
City Manager Hooper asked how big the area is that was
noticed. Sergeant Taves stated they elected a three-mile
radius, which basically covers all of the City. The house
in question is the 1800 block of Pine Tree Drive.
Councilwoman Rhodes asked if someone moves here from North
Carolina will the same thing occur. Sergeant Taves
informed her if they are a sexual predator in that State
and they are required to register there they would be
required to register here also.
Councilwoman Rhodes then asked how long it takes from the
time they move to the time the information gets to the
public. She was concerned if it takes months then they
have an opportunity to repeat their crime before anybody is
notified. Sergeant Taves stated they are required to
notify the Sheriff's Department within ten days of a move.
Some people do not do that. The State requires they verify
their address once a year. The City does it twice a year.
Councilwoman Rhodes feels this should be done every month.
Sergeant Taves informed her there has been talk of doing it
every month. He received an e-mail in the morning, the
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company was notified at 3:00 p.m. and they waited until
7:00 p.m. hoping a majority of the citizens would be home
to take the phone call.
Deputy City Clerk Bloomer informed the Council notification
would be incorporated into the City newsletter also.
Robert Morin, 1410 Mango Tree Drive, stated as soon as they
get the stuff the CAPS people go out and deliver the flyers
right away to people's homes.
Councilwoman Lichter stated after the Water Authority
meeting on November 16th, she attended a workshop on Growth
Management and the speaker was going to be a House
Representative who has been there for eight years. His
name is Randy Johnson, and he is from District 41 in
Volusia County. Finally there is a Senate Bill and a House
Bill, which in the next ten years will give billions of
dollars for infrastructure for developments. The rule is
going to be that until roads, schools and water projects
are accounted for they will not be able to be permitted.
When they give their recommendation for approval it goes
through four different levels. Subsequently, Councilwoman
Rhodes mentioned that SR 415 was going to be the main
emphasis of the MPO. She spoke to Mary Martin and
apparently there is no money at the moment for these
particular road projects that we so much need in Volusia
County. She stated some cities down south have lobbyists
to get things from the State. She feels the County may
need a lobbyist for some of these projects.
Councilwoman Lichter commented on Smart Growth. They had
one workshop where New Smyrna, Port Orange and the previous
Council attended. She feels they should have Clay
Henderson, who is an environmentalist and was on the Smart
Growth Group. They worked for one year to try to get this
under control. She commented on the people that served on
the Smart Growth Group. She feels the Planning and Zoning
Board members, the Council, the public and an
environmentalist from that group should talk about Smart
Growth so they can get a handle on what clustering means,
putting things closer together so there can be more open
spaces, so they will get an idea of the wetlands and what
it means and the things that are in affect already and need
to be. She would like that workshop.
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Councilwoman Lichter stated there is a little arbitration
going on between the WAV Group. She attended this meeting
last week. She goes on an average to three or four WAV
meetings almost monthly lately. WAV is the Water Authority
of Volusia. We are one of the few counties where the
County and cities have joined together to work
cooperatively to solve future water problems. So in the
year 2020, even if it rains today that doesn't mean we will
have the water. Some people think because it rains the
wells are filled but a drought can come and they are
constantly planning and there are people on that group that
are committed to the environment. There are County laws in
effect right now of how to set your sprinkling systems to
provide the right amount of water for your plants and
lawns. Grass is the greatest problem because everyone
wants a green lawn. She commented on problems they are
having with Daytona Beach. There are three cities in
Volusia County that are not part of the WAV Group. There
is arbitration going on right now between WAV and Daytona
Beach. Daytona Beach has a new manager, Mr. Chisholm who
came from a County where he pulled his city out of a Water
Authority. When he left they went back in it. What they
want is weighted votes, which means a larger city would
have more weight than the smaller cities. There is no way
we should give up our one vote. The other thing they want
which is flexible, is if a city doesn't directly benefit
from a water project indirectly maybe they should pay not
quite the same amount of money towards the project because
we are going to cooperatively pay for all these projects in
the end. It is the only way we are going to survive with
water. Those two things are up for grabs. They had the
first arbitration meeting and the lawyer doesn't want to
pullout but the Daytona City Manager seems to want to and
that would kind of be disastrous because somebody else
would take over the authority for the water situation than
the cities themselves.
Councilwoman Lichter stated Veterans Day was the first
opportunity she had to meet Mayor Thomas. She introduced
him to the crowd and he gave a nice speech.
Councilwoman Lichter reported she attended as Vice Mayor
the dedication of the stained glass window of the well at
the Union Church on November 13th.
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Councilwoman Lichter also reported on judging the boat
parade on Friday night for Mayor Thomas
Mayor Thomas stated he thought he was going to take office
January 1st and he got in a little bit of a shock because
they have got him doing all sorts of things. He attended
the Veterans Day Ceremony. He attended the outgoing roast
for Mayor Bill Arthur of Holly Hill. He met with City
Manager Hooper on November 28th from 10 a.m. to Noon with
the Department Heads and then on the same day from 2:00 to
3:30 they met with support staff. Then that night he
attended the VCOG meeting, the Volusia County organization
of city governments. He responded to several complaints in
person. He responded to a bunch of complaints from the
phone. He visited the site where the tree has been cut
down. He has been trying to put a personal aspect on what
he has been doing.
Mayor Thomas informed everyone not to leave because it is
going to get exciting in a little bit. He told City
Manager Hooper not to worry.
Mayor Thomas reported that last month he was on the phone
for 20 hours. He has been a busy beaver but he is catching
up real quick. He asked for a little time.
6. PUBLIC HEARINGS, ORDINANCES AND RESOLUTIONS
A. Public Hearing, Oak Leaf Preserve, Inc.
requesting preliminary plat approval for a
single-family residential subdivision to be known
as Oak Leaf Preserve
City Manager Hooper made a staff presentation.
Councilman Vincenzi mentioned there being a number of
retention areas and questioned where the outflow goes if
they were to get full. City Manager Hooper informed him it
has an outfall, which will work its way, to the west until
the west basin builds up and then it will fill up and flow
back to the east out through the Gabordy Canal.
Scott Nicke~, 100 Parnell Street, Merritt Island, further
commented on the complexity of the drainage by simplifying
the drainage design.
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Councilwoman Lichter questioned obtaining two extra
permits. Mr. Nickel stated they have to get permits from
St. Johns, the Army Corps of Engineers, the County and the
City.
Councilwoman Lichter mentioned obtaining a permit from the
Fish and Wildlife Commission. Councilman Vincenzi asked
the reason for that. Mr. Nickel commented on the finding
of one gopher tortoise burrow discovered on the site.
Councilman Vincenzi asked about this being low density and
asked if this is gross or net. Mr. Nickel stated 2.4 units
per acre is gross, net density is 3.4 units per acre.
Mayor Thomas asked if any Councilor staff have walked the
property. City Manager Hooper informed him he's been on
the site. Mayor Thomas asked what kind of vegetation is on
the site. It looks to him like it is part of the Turnbull
Hammock. City Manager Hooper stated it's adjacent. Some
of this outfall has been bisected by Park Avenue and Old
Mission. He commented on scrubby areas and some swampy
wetlands that have been preserved and set aside. You have
a mixture of different types.
Mayor Thomas asked how many acres it is. Mr. Nickel
informed him 173 acres total. City Manager Hooper stated
173 acres total and 422 units.
Mayor Thomas asked what percentage they consider uplands.
City Manager Hooper stated a majority of it is uplands.
Mr. Nickel stated there's twenty-seven acres of preserved
wetlands on the site. Mayor Thomas asked what area this is
in. Mr. Nickel stated primarily concentrated down the
center of the property if you were running in a north-south
direction.
Mayor Thomas expressed concern with the fifty-foot lots and
asked Mr. Nickel to explain why they are doing fifty-foot
lots.
Mike Evans, 1682 W. Hibiscus, Melbourne, stated the
northern section of this is already platted for Phase II
and Phase III of Mission Oaks and those are fifty foot.
They just simply decided to put the fifty-foot in the same
area that that was already platted for the manufactured
housing. The seventy-five foot product is on the southern
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end. The PUD Agreement calls for varying between fifty and
seventy-five foot lots with a minimum of each.
Mayor Thomas questioned that being the width and the depth
being a hundred to a hundred and twenty feet. Mr. Evans
informed him one hundred and twenty feet. Mr. Evans
commented on there being a lot of specimen and historic
oaks on this property. With the PUD Agreement, they have
the option to move lot sizes in order to preserve as many
trees on the property as they can. He commented on the oak
trees at the entrance to Oak Leaf as well as two other
areas that have a lot of oak trees.
Mayor Thomas asked if they were going to have to add fill
to build on these lots. Mr. Evans informed him they will.
Mayor Thomas asked how high. Mr. Nickel informed him three
feet. Mr. Evans spoke of building swales around some of
the trees. They are still in the engineering process and
the number of lots is a maximum number. They feel they
will lose several of those lots throughout the permitting
process.
Mayor Thomas stated so St. Johns hasn't given you the final
permit yet. Mr. Evans informed him that was correct.
Normally they would get the preliminary plat before they
continue to spend the dollars to go through the engineering
process.
Councilman Vincenzi asked if you could still get into the
property to look at it even though it is heavily wooded.
Mr. Evans stated the front of it is pretty low cut as it is
but they'll go in and clear out the brush that's in there
first. The whole front will be preserved.
Councilman Vincenzi stated he was wondering if a person
could get in there and look at it. Mr. Evans confirmed
they could get into the property.
Councilwoman Lichter asked if the gentleman Mr. Evans spoke
to outside was satisfied with his explanation. Mr. Evans
stated he spent a lot of time trying to reach the
owner/developer to talk about that swale. Mr. Nickel
stated did meet with Mr. Schmitt and Mr. McAfee briefly
about their concerns. He stated Mr. Schmitt showed him
some photographs of drainage conditions they see right now
as far as the retention pond and their outfall swale. He
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has agreed to meet with them sometime next week. They will
go out and walk the property with them. They will walk the
length of the outfall swale to see if there is anything
that could be causing any drainage flow problems. They
have agreed to do this and don't want to make any drainage
problems worse for anybody. They want to try to be a good
neighbor and he feels this is the way to get off on the
right foot.
Councilwoman Rhodes
around them by law.
right.
stated they can't impact any property
Mr. Nickel stated that is absolutely
Mr. Schmitt commented on the draining not being touched in
twenty-five years and the problems they have been having.
Councilman Vincenzi asked Mr. Schmitt if the problems he
was describing were on their property.
Mayor Thomas asked to finish with the Council questions and
then they will let Mr. Schmitt approach the podium again.
Councilwoman Rogers feels that if the permit gets approved
from the Army Corp of Engineers that would then perhaps
answer Mr. Schmitt's questions. She has a feeling the
permit will not get approved if what he is telling them is
so. She moved that they not vote on this tonight until the
Army Corp of Engineers permit has been concluded one way or
the other. She hopes they will do their job in issuing or
not issuing that permit.
Mayor Thomas stated they would postpone the break until
they get this matter taken care of.
Councilwoman Lichter stated there are several layers they
have to go through all of which may pertain to water. She
wasn't sure if you pass this and they don't get their
permits they don't go any further or it takes them longer
and more money. She doesn't think they have ever held up
until all the permits have gone through. She spoke of their
being lawsuits involved with these things. She asked for
City Manager Hooper's opinion on this.
City Manager Hooper stated the normal process is
preliminary plat. Then once they have obtained Council's
approval that that is what they are intending to do, they
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have probably already submitted or started some of the
permitting process. He spoke of permitting processes they
go through that are submitted with their construction
plans. Those plans are then reviewed and approved and if
they don't get permits and they don't pass our test for
construction plans it stops.
Councilman Vincenzi stated he sees no problem in taking the
time in approving these things. He knows they put a lot of
time, effort and money into this. I'm not saying no but I
personally wouldn't mind going out there and looking at the
property and taking a tour with the developer and the City
Manager. He spoke of Mr. Schmitt having concerns but
Councilman Vincenzi stated he has no idea what he's talking
about or how serious the concerns are. He would like to
have it explained first hand with any questions he has at
the time that way he can come back to a Council meeting and
know what he is talking about. He doesn't feel he is
prepared enough to approve this right now. He doesn't want
to say no. He feels the best suggestion is to postpone it.
Mayor Thomas stated he wanted to go too.
Mr. Evans stated he would have no problem with going out
with any Councilmembers to look at the property. He cannot
move forward until they know what they are able to build
and they have been working on this project for almost a
year and a half. Councilman Vincenzi feels on a lot of
these developments the Council rapidly loses control of it.
He would feel more comfortable if he could go out and be
sure in his mind that what they are saying is correct and
that it won't adversely impact areas around there and then
he would feel confident voting for it. Mr. Evans expressed
concern with being held up on the project and they wish to
get it approved so they can move forward and then have the
engineering plans.
Councilman Vincenzi asked if they were to delay it what is
the earliest it could be heard. City Manager Hooper
informed Councilman Vincenzi their next meeting is on
December 19th.
Councilwoman Rogers asked how long it would take the Army
Corp of Engineers to decide on their permit. Mr. Evans
stated it could take a year or it could take four months.
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Councilwoman Rogers expressed concern with the Mission Oaks
property being adjacent to the property being discussed and
the soils not just changing. She is very familiar with
wetlands and the soils and the fact that the Army Corp of
Engineers is even being brought out tells her something.
She expressed concern for the people that are living in
that environment and she believes what they say.
Councilman Vincenzi commented on the situations being
described by Mr. Schmitt. The situation is there and he
wants to make sure this proposed development doesn't impact
them.
Councilwoman Rhodes stated at some point it's going to corne
down to the word of an engineer. She spoke of the City
having engineers that look at and certify the plans that
they are going to do what they're supposed to do. She
spoke of all the other agencies that are involved. She has
no problem waiting but she thinks whether you wait or you
don't you're still going to corne to that point where you
are going to have to believe an engineer. She informed Mr.
Schmitt that they cannot by law impact their land. If they
do, then you will own their company.
Councilwoman Lichter stated usually if there's been any
question in their mind Planning & Zoning there's a couple
that would have voted no. They passed this one unanimously
at this point. They are an advisory board and they voted
to go with the word preliminary plat so they could move on
and get these other opinions. She is not an engineer and
could walk the property until the end of time and not know
the answer.
Councilman Vincenzi stated he sees no harm in waiting two
weeks.
Mayor Thomas commented on wanting to walk the property too.
Mike Schmitt, 2063 Porto Blvd, Mission Oaks, President,
Mission Oaks Homeowners Association, presented some history
on Mission Oaks. Councilwoman Rhodes stated they do this
all the time in the City and every development that we pass
must have a homeowners association. The homeowners
association is responsible for taking care of the swales
and the retention and the drainage and sometimes even roads
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in every development. What happens twenty years down the
road and it's not taken care of?
City Manager Hooper stated if you look at their homeowners
association documents, probably, he hadn't seen them,
you'll see they're probably not mandatory you'll probably
see that they weren't recorded and they are not of the same
level as the City. The City's are very modern. Homeowners
associations are mandated. If they fail to do that they
get turned in to St. Johns. He commented on some of this
occurring in Edgewater Landing.
Mr. Schmitt stated their documents were recorded in 1982.
He spoke of Charles Williams, the developer of Mission
Oaks, maintaining control the homeowners association up
until three months ago and they haven't been able to do
anything. Mr. Schmitt comment on only having $43 in the
association's account when they took over three months ago.
They don't have the money to do this.
Councilwoman Rhodes suggested Mr. Schmitt get with City
Manager Hooper and maybe they can figure out a way to
partner with the City with him to help their drainage
problems.
Mr. Schmitt informed him they are in the County. They have
been trying for eight months to get the County out there.
They won't touch it.
Councilman Vincenzi pointed out County Councilman Jack
Hayman in the audience. Mr. Schmitt informed him he's been
out there several times. He spoke of there being fifteen
feet of retention ponds in Mission Oaks that are so
overgrown you can't find them.
Councilwoman Rhodes asked the developer if they could help
them with this out of the goodness of their heart. Mr.
Evans stated they would be glad to meet with them to see if
there was something they could do to assist. He spoke of
trying to meet with the developer and that being
unsuccessful.
Mr. Schmitt commented on how this would affect Phase I
because Phase II and Phase III are gone due to being
annexed by the City.
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Mr. Schmitt offered to be available to anyone who would
like to come out and walk the property.
Councilman Vincenzi suggested they walk the property
Friday. He felt waiting two weeks to put everybody's mind
at ease wasn't a bad idea.
County Councilman Jack Hayman congratulated Mayor Thomas
and Councilwoman Rogers. He also congratulated
Councilwoman Rhodes on returning to public office.
County Councilman Hayman suggested the Council consider
conditional approval of the request tonight. They can add
the conditions that the County and City work together with
the residents that have complained about the flooding that
are the neighbors to this as well as the developer to look
at and resolve to the satisfaction of the City that the
final site plan approval does in fact meet your concerns.
This would allow time for the Army Corp of Engineers to
continue. He suggested at the County level they could ask
them to expedite this. There is no question the homeowners
association management has neglected their rights and
privileges with the exception of charging them their annual
dues fees but he he hasn't done anything for them. These
people have been devastated year after year. He suggested
the Council allow this to move forward with the conditions
that the City, the County and the representatives from the
Homeowners Association get together with the developer and
anybody else you like if you want to have a Corp of
Engineer person there or a Water Management person there.
Any conditions you had there would be applicable.
Gina Ho~tz, 1798 Hideaway Lane, which is at the corner of
where Old Mission Road and SR 442 intersect, which is part
of the Turnbull Hammock. The engineer mentioned that there
is a wetlands slew that runs through the center of the
property. She asked how they are incorporating that into.
Is that slew going to be able to flow freely or have you
got your properties on the north and south end built up
around it?
Mr. Nickel commented on anytime they have a wetlands system
such as this they are required to maintain the conveyance
of that wetland system.
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Ms. Holtz commented on a $75 tax increase she received this
year because they are going to be doing maintenance of
drainage canals and all sorts of water systems in the
County. Because the County and City boundaries are so
overlapped, she wondered who is responsible for maintaining
the ditches. The water in her ditches has not dropped
since the hurricanes came through last year. With a
project like this diverting that is going to divert its
water to ditches that are already not being maintained, she
sees a problem.
City Manager Hooper commented on their being various
districts such as Mosquito Control, County Road and Bridge,
the City, and New Smyrna. There is a map which describes
who is under what jurisdiction.
Mayor Thomas expressed concern with Coral Trace already
draining to Mission Road and now these people will drain
into Mission Road.
Ms. Holtz feels the heighth of SR 442 as it goes west is
too high. If the County were to do the maintenance on
their ditches and that water were to continue to stand she
feels they would have a real problem with another
development coming.
Mr. Evans stated he would be more than happy with the
Council's permission if they could make it time certain to
postpone this for two weeks to the next meeting on December
19th. He doesn't want it to appear that they are trying to
push something down their throat but they have been working
on this for a long time.
Councilman Vincenzi feels once they see everything they
will be satisfied but he just wants to make sure.
Mr. Evans stated he is very confident in their development
and their engineers and would welcome a meeting.
Councilwoman Lichter felt they should all walk the property
and questioned if this would need to be advertised. City
Manager Hooper stated they could post it that they were
going to go take a tour of the property and the press would
be invited too.
Mayor Thomas entertained a motion.
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Councilwoman Rogers seconded it.
Mayor Thomas informed her he couldn't make one and that he
was entertaining one.
Counci~woman Rhodes made a motion tbat tbey postpone tbis
unti~ tbeir next meeting on December 19th, second by
Counci~woman Licbter.
The MOTION CARRIED 5-0.
There was a ten-minute recess at this time. The meeting
recessed at 9:20 p.m. and reconvened at 9:33 p.m.
B. Public Hearing, Tree Removal Permit for the
removal of a Historic Live Oak Tree located at
101 Alamanda Drive, and require property owner to
replace the tree per City of Edgewater Land
Development Code (LDC) or pay into the City Tree
Replacement Account ($9,295.03)
City Manager Hooper made a staff presentation. He spoke of
the tree being located on Teddy's property and the property
owner of the motel decided to go out and trim this tree.
This tree has been trimmed beyond the 50% requirement. The
County had several arborists come out and look at it and
they determined in all likelihood it wasn't going to live.
If this came before Council for removal they would have to
pay into a tree fund or replace a certain number of trees.
Because of this being after the fact it has a requirement
that this tree be replaced with a mitigation factor of two
which amounts to a fine in the mitigation program of
$9,295.03. If this property were in the County, they would
be facing a fine somewhere around $60,000. Staff
recommended Council find them in violation of the Land
Development Code by trimming/removing that tree without a
permit and the fine be $9,295.03.
Councilwoman Lichter commented on looking at the tree and
feels maybe it might survive. She would like the tree to
remain. She will be voting for the fine but she doesn't
wish the tree to be cut down.
City Manager Hooper informed her that is the plan. If the
Council approves it that you require them to mitigate and
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that mitigation is either in the form of additional trees,
money, or a combination but the tree stays and if it lives
that's great.
Mayor Thomas asked who figured the money.
Hooper stated he did.
City Manager
Councilwoman Rogers mentioned this tree being on someone
else's property. City Manager Hooper stated this tree is
on the restaurant property to the north, Teddy's
Restaurant.
Councilwoman Rogers questioned if this is the amount the
permit would be to remove this type of tree. City Manager
Hooper stated it is the cost per square inch of replacement
of trees. Councilwoman Rogers commented on this individual
creating more of a problem because he has affected someone
else's property. She asked if they have anything that
would indicate a fine for that. City Manager Hooper
informed her no and that would become a civil suit. The
City doesn't get involved in that.
Mayor Thomas questioned if he went on the other person's
property to cut the tree. City Manager Hooper feels if you
look at it it is clearly encroachment.
Councilwoman Rhodes asked what the fine is for not getting
a permit. Chief Planner Lear informed her it would be half
the amount of the fine.
Councilwoman Rhodes feels this is unconscionable. She
feels they should pay every penny of this and she feels
they need to change their tree code so it at least matches
the County if not better. As far as not getting a permit,
that fine should go up as well. She feels the root of the
problem is if it is just a slap on the wrist to not get the
permit then why be bothered, especially for developers and
people that have more resources than she has.
~ke Pate~, owner, Best Western, stated he did get an okay
from the City to trim the tree. He wasn't sure if this was
covered because they do landclearing and he wasn't sure
what kind of permit they were talking about.
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Councilwoman Rhodes stated but it's your property.
care if you didn't know. You should have. Your
responsible and the buck stops with you.
I don't
Mayor Thomas opened up the public hearing.
Gina Ho~tz, 1798 Hideaway Lane, feels this project has had
problems since the very beginning. She doesn't feel these
people can claim they didn't know. She feels the tree
deserves a chance. This property was a real oasis in our
City. Nature has a way of taking back what was taken from
it. She spoke of this property being totally obliterated
of its wildlife and everything of beauty. She believes
that development can happen in this City and we can still
retain our beauty and still have a place for wildlife to
live. She responded to an injured redtailed hawk on that
property, which turned out to be two immature redtailed
hawks learning to hunt that had been raised in a nest on
that property before it was developed. She encouraged the
Council to fine these people as much as they possibly
could.
Char~ie Car~son, 1714 Edgewater Drive, lives behind the
Best Western, stated this place has been plagued with all
kinds of problems. He personally took Mahendra Patel and
showed him gopher tortoise burrows on the property and he
later denied that there were any out there. He feels there
is a pattern here. He said then that was by accident and
that he didn't know there were gopher tortoises out there
and he got an after the fact permit to destroy the colony.
Now we're hearing that he didn't now about this tree. They
were standing out there watching the cutting of this tree.
There was a guy standing in a front end loader with a
chainsaw cutting the tree with no glasses or headgear on.
He feels it is easy enough to find out what you can and
can't do with your property. He feels they need to
establish a precedence here to send a message out there
that we aren't going to put up with the destruction of our
trees. There have been 3,000 trees lost to development in
six months. He would like to see Edgewater become a Tree
City once again. He feels they need to be penalized for
what they have done and that the oak should stay and give
it a chance to grow.
Dot Car~son, 1714 Edgewater Drive, had a copy of the tree
permit so she knows Mr. Patel knows he has to have one.
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After that there's no excuse. She suggested he be run out
of town on a rail but to throw the book at him as much as
they can. Make him an example. We're not going to put up
with it anymore.
Mayor Thomas closed the public hearing.
Counci~woman Lichter moved to riDe the bui~ding contractor
$9,295.03 ror the destruction or a historica~ tree and that
the tree be given the chance to see ir anything deve~ops,
second by Counci~n Vincenzi.
City Manager Hooper asked that the motion include that a
certificate of occupancy not be issued on the building
until that is paid.
Counci~woman Lichter added to her motion that there wou~d
be no certiricate or occupancy be issued to the bui~ding
unti~ this riDe is paid, second by Counci~n Vincenzi.
The MOTION CARRIED 5-0.
C. 2nd Reading, Ord. No. 2005-0-49, Glenn Storch,
agent for Worthington Creek Investment, Inc.
requesting an amendment to the Official Zoning
Map to include 155.64~ acres of land located west
of US1 and northwest of William Street as RPUD
(Residential Planned Unit Development) and
approval of associated RPUD Agreement - cont'd to
1/9/06
D. 2nd Reading, Ord. No. 2005-0-50, Glenn Storch,
agent for John and Patricia Hickey, requesting an
amendment to the Official Zoning Map to include
29.20+ acres of land located west of US1 and
north of Clinton Cemetery Road as RPUD
(Residential Planned Unit Development) and
approval of associated RPUD Agreement - cont'd to
1/9/06
E. 2nd Reading, Ord. No. 2005-0-51, Trajan Joe Sfera
requesting an amendment to the Official Zoning
Map to include 12.01~ acres of land west of US1
and south of Relocation Road and 4100 S. US1 as
B-3 (Highway Commercial) - cont'd to 1/9/06
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F. 1st Reading, Ord. No. 2005-0-56, Paul and Tomoko
Newsom and Robert Jalbert, Jr. requesting an
amendment to the Official Zoning Map to include
12~ acres of property located at 2203 and 2295
Cow Creek Road as AG (Agriculture) and RT (Rural
Transitional) - cont'd to 1/9/06
City Manager Hooper informed the Council these have been
requested to be continued which are land use responses that
have not come back from the State so we can't go to the
second reading on Items C, 0, E, and F. He asked for a
motion to continue those.
Counci~ woman Rhodes so moved.
seconded it.
Counci~woman Lichter
Counci~n Vincenzi stated so moved.
we continue Items 6C, D, E and F.
I make a motion that
Counci~woman Rhodes stated that's what I just said.
Counci~n Vincenzi stated I heard so moved. Counci~woman
Rhodes stated I so moved what he said.
Counci~woman Lichter stated I'~~ second whatever you said
Dennis.
The MOTION CARRIED 5-0.
G. 2nd Reading, Ord. No. 2005-0-52, River Colony,
Inc. requesting an amendment to the Official
Zoning Map to include 4.22~ acres of land located
north of Jones Fish Camp Road and west of the
Indian River as RPUD (Residential Planned Unit
Development) and approval of the associated RPUD
Agreement
Paralegal Matusick read Ord. 2005-0-52 into the record.
City Manager Hooper made a staff presentation.
Councilwoman Lichter commented on there not being enough
room on the property to do clustering. She also mentioned
the Planning and Zoning Board seeing this a few times.
City Manager Hooper informed her they saw it as a land use,
they saw it as a zoning and a PUD document.
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Mayor Thomas asked if he had any questions about the height
cap.
Councilwoman Rogers expressed concern with it being fifty
foot. She asked if they have an opportunity to lower that.
She feels the fifty-foot height is rather excessive.
Barney Di~~ard explained they are building cracker style
homes. He stated on the river there will be a garage unit,
two stories and a high pitched roof. When this came in
from the County it was medium density residential and they
wanted him to put eight units per acre on it. They turned
him down for a lower density, which he has never heard of.
They would rather have a condominium there because more
people would get use of the river.
Councilwoman Rogers asked what the pitch of the roof is
going to be. Mr. Dillard informed her eight twelve.
Councilwoman Rhodes liked the concept of the pedestrian and
the neighborhood and she feels we need more of that. Mr.
Dillard guaranteed her this would be the nicest project in
Edgewater.
Mayor Thomas opened the public hearing.
The following citizens spoke:
John Cordiero, Pine Tree Drive, stated it's just another
notch to destroy the quality of life for the people that
live around Jones Fish Camp Road.
Dot Car~son, 1714 Edgewater Drive, asked how much impact
this will have on the river on runoff. Mr. Dillard stated
it is going to be engineered. They cannot have any more
runoff go into the river. He commented on when the channel
was dredged and the pile of shell fill on this property and
all of that drainage going into the river when it rains.
He commented on having a stormwater system and a retention
pond on the backside of the property.
City Manager Hooper spoke of requiring the developer to
retain the twenty-five year twenty-four hour storm event.
Mayor Thomas asked City Manager Hooper to explain the boat
slips, which he did at this time.
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Councilwoman Lichter stated the whole city is allowed a
certain amount of docks and with what we're not using we
can sell the use of those but it's limited.
Ms. Carlson asked if it was a gated community and stated
this is a beautiful project. She also mentioned they have
a lot of gopher tortoises on this property.
Councilwoman Lichter moved to approve Ord. 2005-0-52, River
Colony, Inc. requesting an amendment to the Official Zoning
Map to include 4.22+ acres of land located north of Jones
Fish Camp Road and west of the Indian River as RPUD
(Residential Planned Unit Development) and approval of the
associated RPUD Agreement, second by Councilwoman Rhodes.
The MOTION CARRIED 4 -1.
Councilwoman Roqers voted NO.
H. 1st Reading, Ord. No. 2005-0-55, John Massey
requesting an amendment to the Official Zoning
Map to include 8.12~ acres of land located west
of Massey Ranch Boulevard and east of the Massey
Ranch Airpark runway as RPUD (Residential Planned
Unit Development) and approval of associated RPUD
Agreement
Paralegal Matusick read Ord. 2005-0-55 into the record.
City Manager Hooper made a staff presentation.
John Massey, 1000 Flying M Court, introduced himself.
Mayor Thomas stated he has looked this over and had no
problem with this.
Councilwoman Lichter also stated she had no problem with
this. She questioned how nearby people live that do not
have airplanes and if noise might be a factor. Mr. Massey
stated the only impact it would have on any surrounding
property owners is it would probably substantially raise
their property value.
Mayor Thomas opened the public hearing.
The following citizen spoke:
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Pat Card, 3019 Willow Oak Drive, speaking as a person,
which he will always do up here. The Chairman gets to
speak for the Committee. He complimented Mr. Massey on
this and would like to see him continue to develop this
small general airport so that this airport is not
eliminated the way so many general aviation airports have
been eliminated. He wants to see him continue to build
industrial west of here and based out of the economics of
the airport itself.
Mayor Thomas closed the public hearing.
Council.man Vincenzi moved to approve Ord. 2005-0-55, John
Massey requesting an amendment to the Officia~ Zoning Map
to inc~ude 8.12+ acres of ~and ~ocated west of Massey Ranch
Bou~evard and east of the Massey Ranch Air,park runway as
RPUD (Residentia~ P~anned Unit Deve~opment) and approva~ of
associated RPUD Agreement, second by Counci~woman Lichter.
The MOTION CARRIED 5-0.
I. 1st Reading, Ord. No. 2005-0-53, Amending Section
1-9 (Additional Court Cost for Law Enforcement
Education) of Chapter 1 (General Provisions) of
the Code of Ordinances
Paralegal Matusick read Ord. 2005-0-53 into the record.
City Manager Hooper made a staff presentation.
Due to there being no comments, Mayor Thomas opened and
closed the public hearing.
Counci~woman Rhodes moved to approve Ord. No. 2005-0-53
Amending Section 1-9 (Additiona~ Court Cost for Law
Enforcement Education) of Chapter 1 (Genera~ Provisions) of
the Code of Ordinances, second by Counc~l.man Vincenzi.
The MOTION CARRIED 5-0.
J. 1st Reading, Ord. No. 2005-0-54, Amending Section 5-
70 (Enforcement) of Chapter 5 (Animals & Fowl -
Animal Control) of the Code of Ordinances
Paralegal Matusick read Ord. 2005-0-54 into the record.
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City Manager Hooper made a staff presentation.
Due to there being no comments, Mayor Thomas opened and
closed the public hearing.
Counci~woman Lichter moved to approve Ord. 2005-0-54,
Amending Section 5-70 (Enforcement) of Chapter 5 (Anima~s &
Fow~ - Anima~ Contro~) of the Code of Ordinances, second by
Counci~woman Rhodes.
The MOTION CARRIED 5-0.
7. BOARD APPOINTMENTS
A. Edgewater Library Board - nomination by Mayor
Thomas to fill seat due to the expired term of
Anne McDevitt, who is seeking reappointment
Mayor Thomas nominated Anne McDevitt for reappointment.
B. Mayor Appointments to various
commissions/boards/committees
Mayor Thomas appointed himself as the representative of the
Volusia Council of Governments with Councilwoman Rogers as
the alternate.
Mayor Thomas stated Councilwoman Rogers requested to be the
representative of the Volusia County Metropolitan Planning
Organization with Mayor Thomas serving as the alternate.
Mayor Thomas appointed City Manager Hooper as the
representative on the Volusia Growth Management Commission.
Mayor Thomas appointed Jeanne DelNigro to the Volusia
County MPO Citizen Advisory Committee. He commented on her
credentials.
Mayor Thomas appointed George Kennedy to the Volusia County
MPO Bicycle Pedestrian Advisory Committee.
Mayor Thomas appointed Vice Mayor Lichter as the
representative on the Water Authority of Volusia.
Mayor Thomas appointed Lawrence Leaf to the Volusia
Steering Committee and commented on his credentials.
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Council Regular Meeting
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Mayor Thomas would be the representative of the Regional
Communications Center.
Mayor Thomas appointed Butch Frye to the Volusia Contractor
License Construction Board.
Mayor Thomas will be the representative on the Southeast
Volusia Community Board.
Counci~woman Lichter moved to accept the nondnation ox
Mayor Thomas to reappoint Anne McDevitt to the Library
Board, second by Counci~n Vincenzi.
The MOTION CARRIED 5-0.
8. CONSENT AGENDA
A. Law Enforcement Trust Funds - staff recommending
approval to use $2,932.80 of the "Funds" to
purchase six (6) replacement body armor vests
B. Law Enforcement Trust Funds - staff recommending
approval to use $2,500 of the "Funds" to cover
costs for development and administration of a
Police Sergeant's promotional examination
C. Law Enforcement Block Grant - staff recommending
approval to accept a Grant in the amount of
$8,419 for the purchase of Officer Safety items
and authorize a cash match of $1,581 from the
Local Law Enforcement Trust Fund
Sergeant Taves made a presentation regarding the body armor
vests, the Sergeants Promotional Exam, and the Law
Enforcement Block Grant the City has received.
Councilman Vincenzi asked how many officers don't have ear
pieces. Sergeant Taves informed him the officers that have
them purchased them themselves and he thought there were
around six. Councilman Vincenzi feels that should be
standard equipment. He asked if there is anything they can
do to get the rest of the Officers one. Sergeant
Taves informed him it is in the request to get one for each
officer on patrol.
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Council Regular Meeting
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City Manager Hooper briefly commented on what Law
Enforcement Trust Funds are.
D. Florida Shores Water Tower Maintenance Contract -
staff recommending approval of a "Contract" with
Utility Service Company, Inc. for an annual fee
of $11,188 for FY 2006 through FY 2014 to cover
annual wash out, physical inspections repairs and
painting touch ups (approved budgeted item)
City Manager Hooper made a staff presentation regarding the
Florida Shores Water Tower Maintenance Contract.
Counci~ woman Rhodes moved to approve the Cons en t Agenda,
second by Counci~n Vincenzi.
The MOTION CARRIED 5-0.
9. OTHER BUSINESS
A. Election of Vice Mayor - for two (2) year term
Mayor Thomas turned the gavel over to Vice Mayor Lichter.
Mayor Thomas nominated Counci~n Vincenzi as Vice Mayor,
second by Counci~woman Rogers.
Councilwoman Lichter asked Councilman Vincenzi since he
works in Orlando and she has worked with him for many years
and he is a good Councilmember when he sits there but
questioned if he had availability to be the Vice Mayor and
cover the job like it's supposed to be covered because you
haven't come to any of the things that they go to.
Councilman Vincenzi stated he doesn't see why not. He
questioned what he hasn't been to with Councilwoman Lichter
replying you answered the question so I'll take your word
for it.
Councilman Vincenzi stated just for the record if you want
to be specific that's great. Councilwoman Lichter stated
workshops because you can't attend them. Your job doesn't
allow it.
Councilman Vincenzi stated informed her he has not engaged
in workshops and other activities because he has not
Page 40 of 49
Council Regular Meeting
December 5,2005
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not approved of the City Council that was up here
previously. Councilwoman Lichter stated okay that takes
care of my vote.
The MOTION CARRIED 4-1.
Counci~woman Lichter voted NO.
Mayor Thomas stated he read the City Charter and under
duties of Mayor it says any additional duties of the Mayor
shall be such as conferred upon the Mayor by the Council.
He respectfully requested the City Council to bestow upon
him the authority to review the upcoming agenda for the
regular City Council meetings and to add, delete, remove or
postpone any agenda item as to expedite said meetings and
to make sure there's ample time for City Council to analyze
data and make competent decisions. He entertained a motion
to that affect.
Councilman Vincenzi asked for clarification. You want to
be able to in other words City Manager Hooper puts forth an
agenda and typically that comes out the Wednesday before
the meeting, so you want to be able to review and remove
items if you feel they don't have ample time.
Mayor Thomas stated he wanted the Council to feel assured
if they wanted to take those powers away from him if they
think he is using them facetiously but he wants to avoid
things like tonight. When he was running on the campaign
trail the most important issue was growth and the
environment. I don't want to have to go over three or four
items on land issues at one time. I want to take the time.
I want to walk the property and see it for myself. I want
to do this slowly. I don't want to make any mistakes in the
future so that is why he is asking for this authority.
Councilwoman Rhodes stated any of us can do that. Why do
you want to be the only one that can do it?
Mayor Thomas stated he was just looking at the duties of
the Mayor. Councilwoman Rhodes stated yes can be conferred
upon you by Council but anyone of us can ask to take
something off the agenda or anyone of us can walk the
property. You get it on Wednesday so you have until Monday
to walk the property if you want to. If you feel like you
need more time anyone of us can call City Manager Hooper
and ask for more time on something and if the rest of the
Page 41 of 49
Council Regular Meeting
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Council agrees then that is what will happen. Or do like we
did tonight and say I need more time.
Mayor Thomas stated he wants to be able to have input in
the agenda, which I didn't feel like I had in this agenda.
Councilwoman Rhodes informed him any time he wanted input
on the agenda to contact City Manager Hooper.
Councilman Vincenzi stated since your new at it how about
if you try the system out for a little while. If you have
a problem like you feel something's not being addressed
properly or your not prepared or nobody has enough time you
can go to Mr. Hooper and ask him to pull it or bring it up
at the Council meeting. If that doesn't work we can bring
it up again. Personally I have no problem agreeing to it.
Mayor Thomas stated he knows he has more time than the rest
of the Council. Councilwoman Rhodes stated I'm going to be
honest. I have a problem with it. We already all have
that power. We already all have that option and I don't
want to give my option to you.
Councilwoman Rogers stated to Mayor Thomas but you also
said review, add, or delete. Aren't there some items that
just pop up on the agenda at the last minute?
City Manager Hooper stated no not really. He presented
examples of why something may show up at the last minute on
an agenda. He assured the Council any time they want to
continue something all they have to say is they don't feel
comfortable and they can do that.
Councilwoman Rhodes mentioned the Tentative Agenda Items
listing that is included in the Agenda Packets.
Councilwoman Rogers stated but what harm would it be to let
him have this power because it is listed in the Charter and
at the same time he is the Mayor and I don't believe that
the previous Mayor ever exercised that and I don't believe
there would be any harm in it and at the same time I think
we should try it.
Councilwoman Rhodes stated it is in the Charter we can
confer this on him. This is not in the Charter as one of
the duties or the right of the Mayor. Councilwoman Rogers
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Council Regular Meeting
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stated but it's there to be conferred and its never been
done before.
Councilwoman Rhodes stated if you want to make a motion go
ahead and make a motion but my vote is no.
Councilwoman Rogers stated I make a motion to approve it.
Chris Balmer asked if there would be citizen comments.
Mayor Thomas informed him there would be.
The following citizens spoke:
Chris Balmer, 148 William Street, informed the Council he
was speaking for himself. He stated they all have the
power so to start saying that one individual has that power
and that power only concerns me.
Councilman Vincenzi stated I was thinking he would have it
but we still have it.
Mr. Balmer stated that is what it is now so then we don't
need a motion and we certainly don't need a vote. Any time
we start funneling more power to one individual I get a
little concerned.
Councilwoman Lichter stated the reason that Mr. Balmer
stated he was speaking for himself is because he serves on
the Economic Development Board.
Gina Ho2tz, 1798 Hideaway Lane, asked if the Charter gives
the power or the control of the agenda right now to the
City Manager. Councilwoman Lichter stated we are the law
body and he is the administration body.
Ms. Holtz asked how it is that the agenda comes before the
Council now. Councilwoman Rhodes stated anyone can ask to
be placed on the agenda. Ms. Holtz asked if the Charter
states who gathers it and puts it together. Councilwoman
Rhodes stated no. Councilwoman Lichter stated the City
Manager runs the City on a daily basis and meets with all
his department heads, which is generally where items come
from. They have a cut off date to submit items to be
placed on the agenda. Councilwoman Rhodes stated as does
any citizen in this City. Ms. Holtz stated so the Charter
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doesn't say one way or the other who does that.
Councilwoman Rhodes and Councilwoman Lichter informed her
no. Councilwoman Lichter stated the Mayor's duties are
ceremonial and to run the City Council meetings otherwise
five City Council persons have equal rights. She commented
on the difference between a soft Mayor form of government
and a strong Mayor form of government. She further spoke
of the City Manager's job being to try to build consensus.
He can meet with each one of the Council separately and go
over the agenda any time.
City Manager Hooper explained a lot of what occurs are
dictated just by advertisement. He commented on items
being continued. He has seen places as their first order
of business being to vote on the agenda. He spoke of being
able to change the agenda or move it around or remove
items.
Councilwoman Rhodes stated but if you advertise that can
you do that. City Manager Hooper stated yes if it is
continued to a date certain.
Councilwoman Rhodes spoke of citizens asking to be placed
on the agenda. She doesn't like giving someone the option
to dismiss that. If a citizen ever needs to be heard she
doesn't want to hear anyone saying they don't want to do
that. She thinks when it comes from a citizen they hold
the purse strings. She wants her options.
Councilwoman Lichter asked what the cutoff date is to
submit something for the agenda. City Manager Hooper
informed her Monday afternoon and further explained the
process to getting the agenda and the packets ready.
Councilwoman Rhodes wasn't sure what the issue actually
was. Mayor Thomas stated the issue is to avoid nights like
tonight and expedite meetings. To take one thing at a time
and to be sure on their votes instead of having three or
four land packages to go over one. What's it going to hurt
to postpone it and let's be sure. Once you do it it's
irreversible.
Councilwoman Rhodes stated if that's what this Council
wants to do she doesn't have a problem with that. What she
has a problem with is Mayor Thomas deciding that.
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Council Regular Meeting
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City Manager Hooper stated they right now schedule five or
six. We went through a period of time in which we have too
many items and quit taking applications to stagger them
out. If there is too much there and they want to slow it
down he informed the Councilmembers to tell him. It needs
to start at Planning & Zoning. We can change that pattern.
Mayor Thomas stated the public wants to slow things down
and he does too and he thought that was one way to do it.
That was his intent to slow things down and let's be sure
before we act so we don't make an irreversible mistake.
Councilwoman Lichter spoke of this being the first meeting
of the new City Council and it being a difficult meeting.
She commented on a discussion tonight of an item that was
not on the agenda that took an hour. The appropriate time
for the talk about the towers was not tonight. She felt it
was nice of the Mayor to let the people talk tonight but
she feels it has to be pulled in tighter.
Councilwoman Lichter doesn't want to give a way a power
that five people already have. If this was a different
type of Mayor that ran the city on a daily basis and didn't
have a paid manager. In Florida that's not very common.
She feels there are ways to slow it down at the beginning
so a developer doesn't waste his time.
Mayor Thomas does not want to stop things. He has no
problems voting for well-planned developments. One of
these places we're not familiar with and if I think we have
a problem I want to be sure.
Councilwoman Lichter stated when she served on Planning and
Zoning in another state they all use to go visit the
project. There are certain more touchy situations that
might take a visit. She suggested Mayor Thomas speak to
City Manager Hooper and Assistant City Manager McBride
before the fact and before they give it to Planning and
Zoning.
Mayor Thomas respectfully removed his request.
Councilwoman Rogers withdrew her motion. Mayor Thomas
stated it died for lack of a second.
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Council Regular Meeting
December 5, 2005
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Mayor Thomas stated he wants to work together and he and
City Manager Hooper have been working very close.
Mayor Thomas commented a complaint from a citizen when he
was running about a boat being housed at the old Mango Tree
Fire Department. He contacted City Manager Hooper and the
boat was removed today. It's not fair for City employees
to have a boat parked on City property when they can have
City equipment in there.
Mayor Thomas feels they need to do something now on
hurricane preparedness. He spoke to City Manager Hooper
about the land that we own behind the Water Plant and he
would like to get some direction from the Council. It's
only six months until hurricane season and he would like to
have Plan B in affect. He commented on what he spoke to
City Manager Hooper about.
Mayor Thomas wanted to get some direction from the Council
to City Manager Hooper if they like his idea to get things
started now.
Councilwoman Lichter asked Fire Chief Barlow about Chief
Daly being the one that is designated in charge of
hurricane preparedness. What is his function? Fire Chief
Barlow stated Chief Daly is an emergency operations center
liaison for the City. City Manager Hooper is the emergency
management director and Fire Chief Barlow is the
coordinator for the City. Chief Daly prior to tonight was
also on the planning side of the preparedness.
Councilwoman Lichter spoke of the Water Plant being deemed
one of the safer buildings in the City. She asked if that
can be used for anything. City Manager Hooper spoke of
using it a couple of times and it having roof issues. He
spoke of this being high land and he concurred with what
Mayor Thomas is saying to explore some options and see what
opportunities are out there.
10. OFFICER REPORTS
B. Deputy City Clerk Bloomer had nothing at this
time.
C. Paralegal Matusick had nothing at this time.
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Council Regular Meeting
December 5, 2005
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D. City Manager Hooper
City Manager Hooper presented an update on Tracy Card's
situation. He commented on a letter that was hand
delivered to Ms. Card today. Her house has been
reinspected the total house. A written report was given to
her. He has been in contact with their FEMA case worker
and supervisor and they have deemed her at this point non
progress which is a non compliance and she will be given
thirty to forty-five days to start the process in the way
of a roof application and then move through the process.
County Councilman Hayman has also helped with a grant
program the County has. They aren't sure if Ms. Card is
eligible but they are going through that process. There
isn't a leaf that hasn't been turned to try and help the
lady. They have gone far above and beyond what would be
the normal method for what Mr. Fischer does.
Mayor Thomas stated he appreciated City Manager Hooper's
help on that. He spoke of the City bending over backwards
working with her. He personally visited her house before
Thanksgiving and gave her a turkey. We had a Plan B on
that too.
City Manager Hooper asked the Council if they would like
him to schedule a work session with the Council and the
Planning and Zoning Board with Clay Henderson to come in
and talk about on Smart Growth. He asked Council if they
would like that to give him some dates.
Councilman Vincenzi asked if it will be a general session
about what is Smart Growth. City Manager Hooper stated
Clay Henderson has been their spokesperson. It's a
definition, implementation, and what the pros and cons are
of each of the steps. He suggested they schedule it after
the holidays. They will not have any more Large Scale Comp
Plan Amendments until after March. They will be catching
up on zonings that have already been through.
Councilman Vincenzi stated he has read everything there is
on Smart Growth but he would like to hear Clay Henderson.
It was the consensus of Council to schedule this work
session.
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Council Regular Meeting
December 5,2005
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Councilman Vincenzi asked City Manager Hooper if he
specified a date. City Manager Hooper informed him he
would get with each of the Council to try to find when they
are available probably on an off Monday.
City Manager Hooper mentioned Councilwoman Rogers comments
on height restrictions and some moratorium issues on
annexations. If that is the desire of Council, they have
to tell him what they want him to do. He asked if they
want him to look into that or get them more information on
how it can be done. The Land Development Code will be open
next year for any kind of changes. He was looking for
direction from a majority of the Council.
Councilwoman Rhodes stated she would like to th~nk about
it. City Manager Hooper informed them they could tell him
to put it on the agenda at a later date and ask for
direction or put it on an agenda for public comment and
they can think about it.
Councilman Vincenzi would like to explore it more.
Manager Hooper stated he would do that.
City
Councilwoman Rogers stated and also architectural standards
and whether or not it could corne into play on some of these
existing things. She believes it can because it has only
been zoned. City Manager Hooper stated it can't, there's
no doubt.
Councilwoman Lichter stated they have nothing in their
codes about height. City Manager Hooper clarified they do.
Councilwoman Lichter stated you can't hold a developer
that's already corne through to what you don't have but we
have to talk about that. She wanted to know where the tree
ordinance was hanging out. City Manager Hooper informed
her it would be corning probably in February or March of
corning back to the Land Development Code and it will have
the updated dollars they talked about.
City Manager Hooper commented on
listing in the Council's packet.
they wanted to only meet once in
conflicts or they could move the
the Tentative Agenda Items
He asked the Council if
January due to having
9th meeting to January 16th.
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Council Regular Meeting
December 5, 2005
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....,
Councilman Vincenzi stated he would like to see the 9th
moved to the 16th. City Manager Hooper was informed that
the 16th was a holiday.
Councilman Vincenzi mentioned being on vacation for the
first two weeks in January.
City Manager Hooper commented on the Tobin property being
on the agenda on the 9th. Councilman Vincenzi stated he
definitely wanted to be present for that. City Manager
Hooper commented on this being a full agenda and wanting to
have a full Council.
Councilwoman Rhodes questioned how much money is wasted
when they have to readvertise. City Manager Hooper stated
it's more important to have everybody participate than
worrying about the advertising.
City Manager Hooper reminded the Council of the workshop on
the Charter Amendments on January 17th.
10. CITIZEN COMMENTS/CORRESPONDENCE
No opportunity was given for Citizen Comments.
11. ADJOURNMENT
There being no further business to discuss, Councilwoman
Rhodes moved to adjourn. The meeting adjourned at 10:48
p.m.
Minutes submitted by:
Lisa Bloomer
Page 49 of 49
Council Regular Meeting
December 5,2005