09-07-1983
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CITY OF EDGEWATER
PLANNING COMMISSION REGULAR MEETING
SEPTEMBER 7, 1983
Minutes
Chairman Bennington called the regular meeting to order at 7:00 P.M.,
in the conference room in City Hall.
ROLL CALL
Members present: Messrs. Bennington, Opal, Finn, Chenoweth, Quaggin,
and Hillerich. Also present: various people:;in the audience, a member
from the press, and secretary, Susan Mista.
APPROVAL OF MINUTES
Mr. Opal made a Motion to approve the minutes of the August 17, 1983,
meeting, seconded by Mr. Finn. Motion CARRIED 5-0.
Chairman Bennington advised that Mr. Spooner from Briley, Wild was present
to discuss the flood plain program and he would like to deviate from the
agenda to explain this matter to the Board. All the members agreed to
have Mr. Spooner first on the agenda.
Mr. Spooner stated that for basis of insurance purposes, the Department
of Housing and Urban Development has established flood insurance rate
maps that are available from the government. The maps show the areas
within the 100 year flood plain, the areas outside the 100 year flood
plain and areas outside of the 500 year flood plain. He stated this is
strictly for insurance purposes. Several things must be met concerning
the areas in the 100 year flood plain. Several municipalities and coun-
ties restrict development within this flood plain. These are set down
in their Ordinances and the only way those can be altered is to have
design engineers submit to the city or county how they are going to
effectively drain such areas and still meet the requirements. He stated
that basically the 100 year flood plain is for insurance and for the
protection of surrounding vegetation. Professional engineers should be
hired by any developer attempting development within that ar.ea. Mr.
Spoonffstated that they would have to really look into the problem or
situation quite deeply to make sure if someone were proposing development
below the 100 year flood plain that no problems would arise with construc-
tion of this development in the future. Mr. Spooner gave an example of
many instances where the 100 year flood plain runs at an elevation of
between 8 and 9 feet above mean sea level or the Halifax area. The
center line elevation of the development for the streets would have to
comply with the 8 or 9 elevation and from that, according to the city
or county Ordinance, the pad elevations vary from 1 to 2 feet above that
elevation.
Mr. Opal requested that Mr. Spooner get some flood plain maps for the
city of Edgewater. Mr. Spooner advised that he would try to get them.
Chairman Bennington referred to the Ordinance on page 745, at which time
he read: Restrict or prohibit uses which are dangerous to health, safety,
and property due to water or errosion or in flood heights or velocities.
He further stated that the local administrator, being the Building
Official of Edgewater, is hereby appointed to administer and implement
the provisions of this Article, listing the items he has to follow. He
also stated they can go before the Board of Adjustments for a variance,
provided they comply with 11 items in the Code. Chairman Bennington asked
Mr. Spooner, in his opinio~ they were developing in this flood plain
area and they filled the land up to this 9' elevation, does this mean
they need engineering calculations that state where this water is now
going to go that is no longer going to be on their property? Mr. Spooner
said they would have to submit calculations stating how they intend to
handle the run-off - to retain it or what they intend to do with it.
Q
CJ
Chairman Bennington advised Mr. Spooner that the part-time engineer, Sam
Tucker, made a statement to the effect that if the cities did"not include
this flood plain matter in their Ordinances, or did not enforce the
Ordinances, that they could lose their right to the cheap flood insurance
and possibly be "blacklisted" insofar as all federal grants are concerned.
Mr. Spooner stated he did not know about federal grants, however, he said
they would come down hard upon you as far as the insurance rates are con-
cerned.
Mr. Hillerich said that in other words, anyone wanting to build in Zone A,
they will have to have a complete engineering study to be checked out to
verify that their run-off will not interfere with any other property and
not disrupt, by blockage, the over-all flow of the plain. Mr. Spooner
stated that they would have to make provision to either take care of the
water or pass it, not only development within Zone A, but development
within any zone. Chairman Bennington stated that he understands that in
Zone C they have to be required to retain I" of water on their property.
In Zone B there is a 500 year flood. He stated that some areas on the
map, in Zone C, are always under water when it rains and some areas that
are in the Zone A are never under water.
Leslie Ogram, a member of the audience, stated that he has a parcel of land
less than a half acre. There are no current drainage ditches bordering
this land and if he fills the land to where the building he proposes is
to go, does he have to dig holes deep enough on this property to retain
the water the fill would displace in this flood zone. Mr. Spooner advised
that he is required to effectively handle the first inch of rainfall.
He stated he has complied with that, he is in Zone A, he plans to fill
a foot above the 9.31 elevation required. He asked if he is required to
retain the run-off also. Mr. Spooner stated no, that his area would be
serving as a holding pond for acres all around him which is not correct.
Mr. Ogram said there isn't room on his property to retain what he would
be displacing with fill. There are no canals or ditches to carry this
water away.
Mr. Spooner advised that the developers will have to bring in plans from
engineers and they will have to take a hard look at the plans to see
whether or not the requirements are met concerning this 100 year flood
plain.
David McCallister discussed the Florida Shores area and its relation to
the flood plain program. He stated he believed it was in error to fill
every little hole, to move sand off one ridge to a trough, that if you
don't stop the natural flow of the water it will trickle normally and there
would be no problems with flooding. He also said that he feels a person
should be allowed to build on his own property if he has the facts and
wants to take the chance and wants to pay a higher price for the flood
insurance. Chairman Bennington stated he understood it to be exactly the
way Mr. McCallister said; it was an agreement between the City and the
Federal Flood Insurance Program. Most of the cities entered into it to
get the people cheap flood insurance.
Chairman Bennington advised that their Ordinance was enacted in 1980
and unless Council desires to get rid of it, they have to comply with it.
SITE PLAN REVIEW
SP-8317 - Larry E. Harris - Waco Mfg. Addition
Darwin Schneider was present to represent Larry Harris.
Chairman Bennington stated that the plans show 6' planted buffer of
vibirnum planted 6' apart on center. He advised that Ordinance 83-0-14
states they are to be planted no more than 3' apart - center to center.
He stated he would need the two sets of architect's sealed plans. Also,
he advised Mr. Schneider that they need to have a screened garbage coll-
ection area. Chairman Bennington questioned the parking area wherein
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Planning Commission Meeting
September 7, 1983
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no handicapped spaces are shown. He said he was sure the state law
requires handicapped parking spaces, however, he said he was not absolutely
sure - the Building Inspector should know. This business is only whole-
sale manufacturing - no walk-in traffic.
Chairman Bennington stated they are in the flood plain area. Mr. Schneider
asked what was required, they have retained the first 1" of rainfall, what
else do they have to do. He said he contacted the engineers and they
advised all that is required is to maintain the 1" of rainfall and minimum
elevation.
Mr. Schneider advised that the proposed parking will be paved, the parking
in the back will be shell. Concerning the Tree Ordinance and Landscape
Ordinance, Chairman Bennington advised that they were only required to
put landscape in the back. He said that the trees will have to be shown
on the site plan so they can be documented as to where they will be
located.
Mr. Chenoweth made a motion that this site plan be approved, subject to
the Building Official's recommendation concerning the handicapped parking
and ramps, that two sealed sets of plans be furnished, the buffer in the
back be planted 3' apart, center to center, the trees be indicated on the
final plans and the garbage area be screened and shown on the final plans.
Mr. Finn seconded the motion.
Chairman Bennington asked if there were any discussion, to which Mr. Opal
stated that the felt Briley, Wild should check the plans concerning the
flood plain matter.
Motion FAILED 3-2, Chairman Bennington, Mr. Opal and Mr. Quaggin voted NO.
Mr. Opal made a motion that the preliminary site plan be approved and
the plans to go to Briley, Wild for their consideration of the flood plain
matter. Mr. Chenoweth seconded the motion. Motion CARRIED 5-0.
SP-83l8 - J. C. Carder - Shopping Center
Chairman Bennington requested that this site plan be typed verbatim.
CHAIRMAN
BENNINGTON:
SUSAN MISTA:
CHAIRMAN
BENNINGTON:
SUSAN MISTA:
CHAIRMAN
BENNINGTON:
SUSAN MISTA:
CHA I RMAN
BENNINGTON:
MR. WALLACE:
CHAI RMAN
BENNINGTON:
Next ones 8318 and I believe that at the last meeting we
told him the only thing we needed was the Tree -- Mr. Wallace
is here.
Mr. Bennington?
Yes.
That's the one Mr. Spooner gave us the letter on.
Yes, I forgot about that.
engineering on this one.
We also got a letter from
Did everybody get one of these?
Yes.
I'll read it for everyone. Its from Briley, Wild and they
have 8 items on here they want some answers to.
I'd be glad to hear it myself, Mr. Chairman.
It's all the same to me, you and him can talk. First
question I'd like to ask, you have on your plan 51 trees.
I can't find them. Are they all there?
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Planning Commission Meeting
September 7, 1983
MR. WALLACE:
CHAIRMAN
BENNINGTON:
MR. WALLACE:
CHAIRMAN
BENNINGTON:
MR. SPOONER:
CHAIRMAN
BENNINGTON:
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We have designated as your Ordinance instructed, it's on your
plan indicating what your Ordinance number is, taking care
of your crown cover as indicated in all defined planter
areas, your parking areas of our tree designation insofar as
the secondary trees to meet this requirement of 51.5-52 trees
they will go somewhere outside of your retention areas in
order to buffer your landscaped areas (inaudible). At this
time until we do get to that point, we feel that as long as
we do comply and designate with your Ordinance we have
fulfilled your Ordinance.
Okay, do you have a copy of this?
Yes. I'd like to ask one thing before we get to it. Was
a copy of the 9 page item sent to Briley, Wild showing
computations and retention areas of 1, 2 and 3 telling the
depths which will answer 90% - we are not asking for
construction (inaudible), we're asking for compliance of
your retention of your storm drain and your stormwater
calculations, showing your percolation which takes care of
your ground cover, etcetera, etcetera.
She says, yes, they were. You still felt you need these
things answered even after - or did you do this one?
Uh-huh.
You still - OK. What's your particular problem then Mr.
Wallace?
MR. WALLACE: .What's my particular - I'd like to go to the items with
you for clarification because in my opinion what Mr. Spooner
has offered here are good points, but they're not to the
point that the criteria cannot be met or have been met. Its
a matter of two engineering practices uh with two different
opinions. We have uh going through item 1, if I may go
through it with you.
MR. SPOONER: Sure.
MR. WALLACE: One requests a cross-section detail of the retention area.
We have areas 1, 2, and 3. We also have our ground run-off
showing our 4 to 1 slopes that we do comply with for the
retention areas. Uh by the time we go to construction areas
they will totally be defined along with our DOT requirements
which is another item that is in engineering at this point.
Two, request for vicinity map locating so that soil types
may be verified. This again, in my opinion, is in an area
looking at your elevations, right next to U.S. and highway
1 with existing elevations in 14, 13, and 15. You will
read your soil analysis as your surface run-off with your
percolation that was supplied with this information that
gave you a run-down of the type of soil conditions in this
particular area. Now, you got the same area running all
the way north and south on the east, west and first ridge.
On the percolation run-off circuits designed for ---
CHAIRMAN
BENNINGTON:
MR. WALLACE:
CHAIRMAN
BENNINGTON:
Wait a minute. A~e you on article 2?
Yes.
What's that got to do with the location map that was asked
for?
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Planning Commission Meeting
September 7, 1983
MR. WALLACE:
CHAIRMAN
BENNINGTON:
MR. SPOONER:
MR. WALLACE:
MR. SPOONER:
MR. WALLACE:
MR. SPOONER:
MR. WALLACE:
MR. SPOONER:
MR. WALLACE:
CHAIRMAN
BENNINGTON:
MR. WALLACE:
'->
(.)
I'm defining what the soil conditions are in case it was
missed. (end of tape) You're welcome to go out there in
the yellow sand and look at it. OK, but we have an engineer
that has stated and dug with a post hole there, whatever
your requirements will be we'll try to meet it but let's be
honest about that shell ridge there.
Okay.
Okay.
All right. Susan, I can't remember her last name - there
it is, OK, Miss Mista, uh asked two weeks ago how far it
was from state road 442. That information was given to the
engineers so that location could be verified on it. As I
understand it.
I'd like to say one thing. Using that 2200 foot calculation
from Indian River Boulevard, uh, looking at the uh soil
survey, Volusia County soil survey map uh we have reservat-
ions which I want to be verified.
What reservations are you iliooking for?
That that is not a type C soil.
It's a filled in area where the percolation was taken. We
did not go down to the stratta of a 20' soil test. We're
looking at a one-story complex on a raised soil area with
an elevation of 15-5 elevation of structure, 17-0. What
exactly are you looking for?
That answers my question.
Okay, do you want core-boring, I mean, you know that's our
very next step from our percolation indicating how the soil
is and does have it's drainage at that point over a 2 hour
to an hour and a half to 2 hour period. This is how that
was come with (inaudible). What's the next question there
has to do with uh ---
Something about a 10 year storm calculation.
All right. You'll look design frequency storm and rainfall -
25 and 100 year on page 2 for uh the 1.06 acres, in area
number 1 indicating 12,300 cubic feet, 13,500 cubic feet
at a depth of 1~ feet. We also have a design flow chart
and we've added to it to show how this calculation at the
times and seconds through your percolation that's part of
the uh package. Okay. We go to sheet 5, area #3, there
again on the 25 and 100 year 9 and II" rainfall. That
particular area there says that area 3 will be 2' deep
and 16' wide and 300' long. These areas in my opinion are
defined for greater than water has been in some question in
this particular area and at construction drawing plans, I'm
sure that these same plans will be sent back to Briley,
Wild in order for their review. We're asking for site plan
approval and we feel that we have met this criteria. This
is due to the elevation being out of flood plain area.
MR. CHENOWETH: This goes with the first two?
MR. WALLACE: Yes, sir, that has to do with area when half 1S done.
MR. CHENOWETH: All right.
MR. WALLACE: On item 5
MR. SPOONER: I f I may, back up to numb er 3, could I have your pamphlet
there. My question concerned this curve here.
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Planning Commission Meeting
~Qn~QmhQ~ 7 1QQ~
MR. WALLACE:
MR. SPOONER:
MR. WALLACE:
MR. SPOONER:
MR. WALLACE:
MR. SPOONER:
MR. WALLACE:
MR. SPOONER:
MR. WALLACE:
MR. SPOONER:
MR. WALLACE:
MR. SPOONER:
MR. WALLACE:
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Right, that says 10 year storm at that point there. Cultiv-
ated on the infiltration, OK, this particular part has to do
with the percolation. These other areas here are defined
in your areas of your 25 and 100 years. This is just general
information. I shouldn't even probably have put it in the
picture because it caused you some confusion, but in our own
calculations, we look at a very, very close 10 year situation
for above average. In other words, we may never get to this
100 year flood plain but in a 10 year program, we may have
greater influx of lesser amount of rainfall but in large
quantities of time so in our own realism, we see how that
will handle in particular with our area with our trench
drain situations and with our retaining area of our own
area, insofar as our land area is concerned. That was just
an added point there in this case you did ask about it, and
I'm glad you did. We're more realistic on our 10 year on
an every day program than we are of the 100 that has not
been settled yet. Other than it is a composed figure that
everybody is working with. It has to do again, like we said,
insurances. May I go through one more with you here?
Yes.
OK, you asked about the uh cnoss-section on your infiltrations
We have a cross-section shown on our perforated pipe, we
indicate our aggregate side, which is #24Sl0 which is a
(inaudible) nomenclature. With that information we also
indicate a filter fifertype R is a type of filter system
or equal, both sides so that we do not have anymore infil-
tration from sewer conditions or leakage into this particular
trench area so we don't clog it up.
All right, on the uh then you will show a cross-section of
the uh what we were asking about, was the paving and base --
Yes sir, that --
It will be supplied at the construction site.
Right, right, say we have our basic infiltration at this
point, now, the construction plans have not been modified
to this point due tofue fact we are still under discussion,
which I have turned in a letter to the young lady here on
the DOT recommendations and we have submitted and we are
in process of working towards construction drawings. In
this particular instance, uh, we're looking at possibly a
type 2 construction asphalt at this time which is an inch
and a half asphalt base with an 8" uh limerock sub-base.
If we decide to go to a concrete and at this time it is still
a little premature due to pricing and getting the blessings
of this Board and this community in order to put in this
project, we may go .t6 a 4" concrete slab, we may gotto a
6 - 10 wire mesh with construction control joints, there
again, 6 to 8" limerock sub-base. So, we're still open at
this point and in going for site plan approval, in our
opinion, it is slightly premature but its good points to
bring up and we feel we can comply.
Uh - number 7, will that be also addressed in the construc-
tion site?
What is number 7?
Catch basin detail.
Yes, it must be done. Yes.
What type of p1pe is proposed for that filtration?
Perforated uh 12" perforated corrugated metal pipe 1S what
it normally is.
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Planning Commission Meeting
September 7, 1983
MR. SPOONER:
MR. WALLACE:
MR. SPOONER:
MR. WALLACE:
MR. SPOONER:
MR. WALLACE:
CHAIRMAN
BENNINGTON:
MR. WALLACE:
CHAIRMAN
BENNINGTON:
MR. OPAL:
MR. WALLACE:
MR. OPAL:
MR. WALLACE:
MR. OPAL:
MR. WALLACE:
MR. OPAL:
MR. WALLACE:
o
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What type of metal?
Corrugated metal, the type that's uh --
Steel or aluminum?
Pardon me?
Steel or aluminum?
Well it says probably uh due to that point there, it could be
either or either, depends on whose brain it is at this time.
In New Smyrna we're using corrugated steel. On one side on
the beach side we used corrugated aluminum. It just depends
on the area and the soil stratta, as I understand it. But
either way it must be complied with.
Is engineering content with these items being answered on the
construction drawings or do you want them answered --
We don't mind submitting them at that time for your input and
we do appreciate it.
Does anybody have anything?
Yes, I'm trying to figure out where the turn off is? Off
U.S. 1.
OK, we're looking uh they call it a storage lane, that's
your first 12' being the length going south, which is the
west side of your southbound traffic. At that point we do
have a decelleration lane which tapers from 0 to 12' at that
lane there. Across the uh highway --
Where's that at?
Pardon me?
Where is that going to be?
Here's your entrance at this point here. The uh 12' length
will be off in here, which is called a stewage lane and from
there we taper on to just exactly like you have on your
existing uh --
It doesn't show here, that's why I wanted to see it.
No sir, and the reason for that is on my first conversation
with you I brought to the attention of this Board that this
was in discussion with the Department of Transportation at
this time and it is still being in review with their engin-
eering department and when those plans are submitted, uh, it
will be in constructional stage indicating the decelleration
lanes and a taper with acceleration lanes one to the south
of the double entrance of this uh project. Now, uh, one
other conversation I have had with Department of Transportat-
ion when you brought it up last time and at that time I
couldn't answer it but we will have a decelleration lane on
the northbound side, which is where you brought it over across
the highway here, it'll be over in this area here. We do
know that, what I did was call them and ask them saying that
I had a meeting with you folks tonight, and was there any
further input that I could uh bring with me tonight and
that's where we are. If there are any questions you can call
DOT in DeLand, Bob Harrison.
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Planning Commission Meeting
September 7, 1983
CHA I RMAN
BENNINGTON:
MR. WALLACE:
CHAIRMAN
BENNINGTON:
MR. WALLACE:
CHA I RMAN
BENNINGTON:
MR. SPOONER:
CHAIRMAN
BENNINGTON:
MR. SPOONER:
CHAIRMAN
BENNINGTON:
MR. OPAL:
CHAIRMAN
BENNINGTON:
MR. OPAL:
o
o
The only:other items on the Department Head Comments are
must comply with Landscape Ordinance, which you know about;
stop sign to be supplied by owner; and that's basically it.
They discussed the turn lane and uh at the meeting and
basically the same thing is it's still being studied by DOT
and they'll do whatever they tell them. Uh - Building
Official stated that the engineer or someone should monitor
construction of this project at different stages, it doesn't
state why he feels that. Did he uh make any kind of comments
about this? Just said it?
Is that the last of the meeting there?
It's in the center, just a comment he made, no explanation
why.
No, in conversation there, I felt that uh, at least in my
opinion, his input was uh maybe not quite stated that way was
who will be responsible to make certain that these items
have been met at certain stages of construction, which you
normally have and my comment toidiilm at that time was that
in my opinion it's the Building Official's responsibility
due to the 5 to 7 points where you do inspection on different
projects.
OK, anything of this size requires the engineering monitoring
like a subdivision being put in require?
Require what?
You know like when they're putting in a subdivision and
engineering goes out there periodically and checks to make
sure they're putting, something of this magnitude require
anything like that? Other than just as the construction
being maintained?
I would uh basically common sense go out and check period-
ically, uh huh.
Anybody have any other problems or anything with this? Uh
from what I see here we have is this uh he submit or verify
these 8 items from engineering on his construction plans
and per recommendation of the Building Official and the
City Engineers that they be periodically uh monitor the
construction of different stages and I'd like to see in the
motion that if this encourages any expense to the City that
it would be paid for by the developer.
Well, that's what I would do with this item, with the 8 items
and also I'd add item number 9, the turn-off lanes and item
number 10, DOT information and uh and that would go to the
engineers and get an OK for this letter. At this point I'll
make a motion of preliminary site plan, only, not a final -
until we hear from Briley, Wild in regards to all these
points.
Uh, I just asked Briley, Wild if they had any problem with
giving them an ?pproval now provided these items are met on
the construction drawings, and they said no.
That's all, that's all - I'd like to see it on paper ln
answer to this letter here.
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Planning Commission Meeting
September 7, 1983
CHAIRMAN
BENNINGTON:
MR. OPAL:
CHAIRMAN
BENNINGTON:
MR. OPAL:
CHAIRMAN
BENNINGTON:
MR. OPAL:
CHAIRMAN
BENNINGTON:
MR. CHENOWETH:
CHAIRMAN
BENNINGTON:
Q
o
Well, uh, to me personally, I wouldn't know what it meant if
I read it, it's his job, he knows.
After all, we got the letter from Briley, Wild, let's follow
through with that and the other two, I added number 9 and
number 10, turn off lanes, as they should be and DOT infor-
mation required.
What was that, turn off lanes and what?
Information from DOT that's been applied for.
Doesn't that concern the turn off lanes?
Well, it's uh you put it all together.
Do ~e have a second? (Pause) Anyone care to second the
motion? (Pause) That motion dies for lack of a second, do
we have an alternate motion?
I move preliminary and final approval, subject to the four
items mentioned that are not on this list because I think
they have been adequately answered by the explainer for the
project, so subject to those uh three, I think it's 3 or 4
that you mentioned prior to Mr. Opal's motion, I move
preliminary and final approval for this plan uh 8318, J. C.
Carder uh shopping center.
Uh, all I mentioned as I wrote it down here was that they
comply with these items.
MR. CHENOWETH: That's not necessary then because he already explained these
items.
CHAIRMAN
BENNINGTON:
MR. SPOONER:
MR. WALLACE:
CHAIRMAN
BENNINGTON:
MR. WALLACE:
CHAIRMAN
BENNINGTON:
Well, but he said he would be content with the answers on
the construction drawings, in other words, he's not satis-
fied with these answers, you still want answers.
If I may add something here, I would like to get ln written
form answers to the questions.
Mr. Chairman?
Yes.
I think that's good because if we have any discussions we
can handle that at that time with our engineers and Briley,
Wild so we can handle it.
Well, this is what we pay these people for, we're not
engineers, we don't know the answers to these questions if
you gave them to us, that's what we got him for. Uh - so
that's provided that they submit these items and uh that
it be periodically monitored by engineering and the cost
incurred by the developer?
MR. CHENOWETH: Subject to a written answer of the items.
CHAIRMAN
BENNINGTON:
MR. CHENOWETH: Do you want me to make the motion again?
Did you get that?
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Planning Commission Meeting
September 7; 1983
o
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MR. CHENOWETH: Subject to the written explanation by the representative of
project 8318 - J. C. Carder Shopping Center, move that
preliminary and final approval for this project be granted.
CHAIRMAN
BENNINGTON:
Do you want to add to that this comment about the Building
Official and the engineer stated that it would be wise to
periodically monitor it?
MR. CHENOWETH: Well, it's alll'right to add that, yes.
CHAIRMAN
BENNINGTON:
MR. CHENOWETH: I don't see any reason for it, no.
It's up to you, it's your motion.
CHAIRMAN
BENNINGTON:
Then don't add it.
MR. CHENOWETH: No.
CHAIRMAN
BENNINGTON:
MR. FINN:
CHAIRMAN
BENNINGTON:
MR. HILLERICH:
CHAIRMAN
BENNINGTON:
MR. WALLACE:
CHAIRMAN
BENNINGTON:
MR. HILLERICH:
CHAIRMAN
BENNINGTON:
MR. WALLACE:
Do we have a second?
I'll second it.
Any comments? (Pause)
The only thing that I find some difficulty with in all of
this in referring to the Tree Ordinance at all, is that we
actually have one idea. I realize it says here in accordance
with the landscape p&an approved by the Planning Commission,
there is no, in essence, landscape plan, there are numbers
that says it will be complied with, but there is no landscape
plan, ergo, how can the building official approve something
we don't know exists?
Good point.
Mr. Chairman, may I speak on that item?
Just a second. Your suggestion is that we be giving a land-
scape plan, showing where this stuff is to go?
Well, that's in our ordinance where it says that prior to
issuance all landscaping improvements shall be in accordance
with the landscape plan approved uh if we approve, if we're
agreeing that 51.5 trees as Mr. Wallace pointed out is
a sufficient number of the suggested size and type and agree
with that (inaudible), then we're agreeing with that plan.
I think we basically agree that we don't really know at this
point, it's a guess until we do some more research into
trees. I did ask him where the 51 trees were and he did say
that they're not all on here. I think I found about 24,
something like that.
They are in designated planter areas in our dividers with
our parking areas defined. Additional trees will border,
which will be normal, in this particular area as you read
all around your project boundary, it indicates dimensioning,
talking about your planted buffer areas, screened areas
etcetera, etcetera. And in compliance of whether you call
it a woody or Florida grade A evergreen, they will be there
in compliance with your ordinance.
-10- Planning Commission Meeting
September 7, 1983
CHAIRMAN
BENNINGTON:
MR. WALLACE:
CHAIRMAN
BENNINGTON:
'->
(J
OK. You're uh combining then part of your trees into your
landscape.
Yes, in our defined areas.
Well, I personally thin~ that as we go along we're gonna
modify that ordinance uh - you know, we're starting with it,
we're trying to work with it to figure out what we're gonna
do. Any other comments? My only other comment is personally
and since it was requested by the Building Official and I
asked engineering and he said it was a wise idea and since I
don't know the answer as to who has to pay for that I would
personally like to see that in the motion, and if it's not
in the motion, I won't vote for it.
MR. CHENOWETH: I'll revise that motion to include that statement.
MR. WALLACE:
MR. CHENOWETH: I'll amend the motion.
You could amend that, rather than ---
CHAIRMAN
BENNINGTON:
MR. OPAL:
CHA I RIvIAN
BENNINGTON:
BARBARA
TAYLOR:
CHAIRMAN
BENNINGTON:
SUSAN MISTA:
MR. OPAL:
CHAIRMAN
BENNINGTON:
MR. OPAL:
SUSAN MISTA:
MR. FINN:
SUSAN MISTA:
OK, do we have a second to the amendment?
I'll second the amendment.
OK, any other discussion to the amendment?
Would you repeat the amendment?
The amendment was to uh if any the cost being incurred by the
engineers periodically of monitoring the construction, be
paid for by the developer, if that is not already legally
the case, I don't know, it may be. Roll call?
Mr. Opal?
Is that on the amendment?
Yes, we're voting on the amendment now.
Yes.
My. Finn?
Yes.
MR. CHENOWETH: Yes.
Mr. Chenoweth?
SUSAN MISTA:
MR. QUAGGIN:
SUSftlN MISTA:
CHAIRMAN
BENNINGTON:
My. Quaggin?
Yes.
My. Bennington?
Yes. Now we vote on the original motion.
MR. CHENOWETH: Why don't you read it? Can you read it so they'll understand
what it is?
SUSAN MISTA:
Yes, the or~ginal motion stated to approve preliminary and
final, subject to the written explanation by the represent-
atives of J. C. Carder, that they comply with the items listed
by Briley, Wild. -11- Planning Commission Meeting
September 7, 1983
o
(.)
CHAIRMAN
BENNINGTON: Roll call?
SUSAN MISTA: Mr. Opal?
MR. OPAL: No.
SUSAN MISTA: Mr. Finn?
MR. FINN: Yes.
SUSAN MISTA: Mr. Chenoweth?
MR. CHENOWETH: Yes.
SUSAN MISTA:
Mr. Quaggin?
MR. QUAGGIN:
SUSAN MISTA:
CHAIRMAN
BENNINGTON:
Yes.
Mr. Bennington?
Yes.
MR. WALLACE:
Thank you, gentlemen, for your time.
SP-83l9 - Knight C. Smith - Storage Facility
Chairman Bennington stated that this site plan was comIng back for
compliance to the Tree and Landscape Ordinance. He stated to Mr. Wallace,
who was representing Knight C. Smith, that they are proposing moving 3
palm trees and planting 4 others. Mr. Wallace stated that he wasn't sure
if they were all palm trees or not. Chairman Bennington stated there was
a tree right outside the fence and asked if they would be saving that tree.
Mr. Wallace said that they would.
Chairman Bennington then began a conversation regarding a book that was
sent to them from the State, concerning trees for this area, with infor-
mation regarding how much they grow per year, how tall they get, their
crown cover, etcetera. Mr. Wallace suggested that the Planning Commission
draw up a list of trees concerning this information for builders and
developers in the area. Chairman Bennington said this book was good and
possibly the builders could be supplied with a copy of said book.
Chairman Bennington stated that Planning says he needs two sealed sets
of plans and the landscape ordinance needs to be complied with. He said
he shows landscaping on the plans and he assumes the Building Official
will follow the Ordinance before issuing the certificate of occupancy to
make sure it is put in properly.
Mr. Quaggin made a motion that this site plan, as presented, be granted
final approval. Mr. Opal seconded the motion. Motion CARRIED 5-0.
SP-8320 - Earl Wallace for James Wagner - Apartment Complex
Chairman Bennington stated to Mr. Wallace that he agreed with him concern-
ing his comments at the Department Head meeting that a 2 hour fire wall
should be established by the City on all multi-use buildings. He said
the Building Official said that was not necessary because it was covered
by the standard building code.
Mr. Opal questioned the location of the septic tanks, to which Mr. Wallace
showed him the location on the plans, indicating the size of same.
Mr. Chenoweth made a motion to approve this site plan for final approval.
Mr. Opal seconded the motion. Motion CARRIED 5-0.
SP-832l - Earl Wallace for Helen Pleterski - General Store
Chairman Bennington stated that this was a sketch plan for a general store
in B-3 zoning, off Park Avenue.
-12- Planning Commission Meeting
September 7, 1983
o
o
Mr. Wallace stated it would be a wholesale/retail store and they would
be adding land fill to bring the elevation up. He stated the elevation
in that area is 8.7. Concerning the driveways, Mr. Wallace stated they
would be using the existing ones that are there. The trees indicated on
the sketch plan are there and they are taken from the survey.
Mr. Finn made a motion to approve this sketch plan, seconded by Mr. Chen-
oweth. Motion CARRIED 5-0.
SP-8322 - David McCallister - Mobile Home Park
Chairman Bennington stated this was a sketch plan approval of a mobile
park at Mango Tree Drive and Hansen Drive.
Chairman Bennington then called for a 5 minute recess. At 9:05 P.M.
Chairman Bennington called the meeting back to order.
Mr. McCallister stated he wanted site plan approval to build another
trailer park on Mango Tree Drive. He then showed the Board where the
park was to be located on his map, advising of the size of lots and
coverage of the mobile homes on said lots. Concerning the absence of
a rear exit in this park, Mr. McCallister advised that you can use the
exit in the other park to get out, which is owned also by Mr. McCallister.
He also advised that they are planting trees in there because there are
none presently in that location.
Mr. Garthwaite, a member of the audience, asked if the parks would be
combined or are they to be considered two separate parks, to which Mr.
McCallister advised that this one would be called Mango Tree Park and
the other one will be called Park Avenue Estates. Mango Tree Estates and
Park Avenue Estates, two separate parks.
Chairman Bennington referred the Board members to Chapter 18 of the Code
on page 1391. He stated under the mobile home 1 zoning ordinance it refers
to 40 spaces being required and this is listed only under item D, which is
a special exception if you wanted to put a retail and personal service
store in it. However, when you refer to the Code book under the mobile
park ordinance, it says you have to have 40 before you can be issued a
license. Mr. McCallister stated you cannot put 40 on 5 acres and that is
all the Code asks for. He said he thought the Code was saying if you
have 40 spaces you can put a store in the park. Chairman Bennington said
that it says you must comply with the mobile home park ordinance which
lists several minimum requirements. He then read from the Ordinance the
minimum requirements required. He read where it says there must be a
minimum of 40 spaces per park.
Mr. McCallister stated he would have city water, sewage, garbage collection.
Chairman Bennington stated that sometimes Ordinances state that the
strictest one applies, in reference to the 40 spaces. If that is the
case in this instance, he questioned whether or not a variance would be
required. He stated that a legal opinion would need to be obtained
concerning this situation. He also advised that he would need an
engineering study concerning the location being situated in the flood
plain area.
Mr. Chenoweth made a motion that this sketch plan be approved, subject
to the legal opinion on the minimum 40 parking spaces, and an engineer's
calculations concerning the area located in the flood plain zone. Mr.
Quaggin seconded the motion. Motion CARRIED 5-0.
MISCELLANEOUS
Chairman Bennington advised the Board that there was a Mr. Jerry Winchell
present who wishes for the members to look at plans he has for construction
of a duplex. The area in question is located behind Fat Bob's Restaurant
on Edgewater Drive. He stated that this matter was not on the agenda and
it was up to the Board as to whether or not they would hear this case.
It was the concensus of the members to look at Mr. Winchell's plans at
this time. Mr. Winchell advised the members that he has a mortgage
committment that he does not want to run out and he was not aware that
duplexes were now going before the Planning Commission before issuing a
building permit.
-13- Planning Commission Meeting
September 7, 1983
o
Q
Plans were then given to the Board members for their review. A represent-
ative from the builder, Pilch Construction, was present to discuss the
plans.
Chairman Bennington stated that this property is located in B3. Mr.
Hillerich stated that each unit calculates to be approximately 1391 square
feet. The representative from Pilch stated that unit A is 1214 square
feet and unit B is 1344. She stated that Mr. Winchell and his father will
be residing ln'these units and they wanted them larger than what is
normally built in a duplex unit.
Chairman Bennington advised that first they will have to go before the
Board of Adjustments to get a special exception to build the duplex in
the B3 zone. He stated that is permitted as a special exception. The
Planning Commission must give a favorable recommendation to the Board of
Adjustments before they make their decision at a public hearing, which
must be advertised in the newspaper. Per the drawing, the setbacks show
only 32' and 40' is required. On the checklist items, number 7, 9 and
10 must be complied with. Item 7 states that applicant must show retention
of 1" of rain water on the property, and due to the fact that that property
does slope, they will have to show some type of retention that will
satisfy engineering and the building official. Item 9 requires that
any multi-family unit must sho.w a screened garbage collection area. If
the special exception is granted by the Board of Adjustments, the setback
requirements is 40' and the first 10' must be landscaped, with the
exception of the driveway area. The Tree and Landscape Ordinance must
be complied with. Before construction begins, a plan must be presented
indicating where the trees are located on the property. There are mostly
pines on this property and they are exempt. The Ordinances will explain
what must be planted. The side setbacks are OK and the rear setbacks are
OK. Chairman Bennington suggested that they comply with the aforementioned
requirements and come back before the Planning Commission at their next
meeting, which is Wednesday, September 21st, and then go before the Board
of Adjustments meeting, which would be the next meeting after Planning.
Chairman Bennington stated that he thought the new site plans should be
required to show compliance with the Tree and Landscape Ordinance and
this should be added to the Site Plan Requirements Checklist before Council
approves the revised checklist that is presently before them.
Mr. Hillerich stated that the Board needs to get information regarding
the trees, their description, height, etcetera. Chairman Bennington
advised that the secretary has ordered books from the State concerning
Florida trees, shrubs, etc. He also said that the County Forester has
provided a booklet that describes the Florida trees and the secretary
can make copies of same for the Board members. He further stated that
the County Forester has offered to come to the meeting and explain the
various trees and shrubs that grow in Florida and they will ask him to
attend one of the meetings.
A discussion then ensued regarding the flood plain program and the pro-
perty located in these areas.
Mr. R. ~A. Coleman and his attorney, Mr. Bowman, were present to discuss
his development of Shangri-La Subdivision wherein they are building
duplexes and they have been advised that all duplexes must come before
Planning before a building permit can be issued. They asked the Board
why they have to do this since all of their plans were approved previously.
When the subdivision plans were presented, all the drainage, etc., was
approved by the City. Mr. Bowman stated this is a duplex subdivision
consisting of 56 duplex structures. They have been told that even though
they have been given site plan approval for the subdivision, every time
they go to build oNe,~of the 56 duplex structures, they have to submit
a new site plan, which is very duplicative and why do they have to comply
with this request. Chairman Bennington stated that he understands what
they are asking and why, however, he did not feel qualified to answer
their question and said he would take the matter up with the City Attorney
and give them an answer thereafter.
-14- Planning Commission Meeting
September 7, 1983
o
o
There being no further business to come before the Board, upon motion made
by Mr. Quaggin and seconded by Mr. Chenoweth, the meeting was adjourned
at 10:15 P.M.
Minutes submitted by:
Susan Mista
-15- Planning Commission Meeting
September 7, 1983
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