05-09-1983
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CITY OF EDGEWATER
Zoning Commission Regular Meeting Minutes
May 9, 1983
Chairman Siciliano called the meeting to order at 7:10 P.M., in the
conference area of the Community Center.
ROLL CALL
Members present: Messrs. Siciliano, Stewart, Wheeler, Landry and
Sadowski. Excused: Mr. Cochran. Also present: Mr. Opal, Susan
Wad~worth, John Stearns, Alice Murphy, Susan Mista, secretary, and
a member of the press.
APPROVAL OF MINUTES
Mr. Siciliano motioned to accept the minutes of the April 25, 1983,
meeting, seconded by Mr. Sadowski. The Motion CARRIED 5-0.
COMMUNICATIONS
Mr. Siciliano read the letter from Frank Opal, dated April 28, 1983,
to the Board concerning verbal abuse. Mr. Sadowski felt that anyone
causing problems such as verbal abuse should be escorted out of the
meeting. Mr. Siciliano stated it was up to the Chair to control the
meetings. Mr. Opal explained what happened concerning this matter,
advising that the Chairman of the Board involved in this incident did
not, in fact, say anything to this person at the time.
Mr. Siciliano read the letter from Briley, Wild concerning the Sub-
division Ordinance to the Board members. He summarized the letter by
stating that all the contractors can build is four model homes, until
final acceptance of the City of all municipal improvements.
Mr. Sadowski asked what you are going to do if they go ahead and move in.
Mr. Wheeler advised that they can't move in until they have a certificate
of occupancy. Mr. Landry asked if they build four homes at one time and
sell one, can they then build another one and still have four? Mr.
Siciliano advised no, that the model home is not to be sold until the
end, supposedly. There is no certificate of occupancy. They are saying
they can build up to four model homes and they can't build anymore until
final acceptance of the improvements by the City. By improvements they
mean water, sewage, roads, etc. He assumed that what has been happening
in the past is that they go on and build and aren't completing the
improvements. They then sell the homes and after they are all sold out
the citizens come to the City to take care of the streets, drainage
problems, etc.
Mr. Wheeler gave an example of Pelican Cove West that has not been
accepted by the City. There is a meeting this week with the City and
not all the improvements have been completed. There are 28 model homes
there, all very small - one bedroom, one car garage, living room -
these were just started a month ago and 14 are already under roof. Mr.
Siciliano stated if the improvements are not accepted, he should not
be issued the COls. Mr. Wheeler advised there are two houses already
in, one has been in a month. Mr. Siciliano stated the problem is after
the final plan has been approved, then it is recorded with the County,
after it is signed, then they can sell without anyone stopping them.
This letter says this may be a stop gap, they can't build anymore than
4 homes in the entire subdivision. until all the improvements have been
accepted. The contractors have over a year and have to put up a bond -
150% or so.
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Mr. Sadowski stated that under the Subdivision Ordinance they are
supposed to put in all sewers, improvements, etc., before they start
building one house. Mr. Siciliano advised that the Subdivision Ordinance
doesn't really spell that out. Bril~y, Wild feels that the developer
should be allowed to build some homes, to show them off, while they are
improving the land so they can perhaps get some sales prior to completing
the improvements.
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Mr. Wheeler stated concerning Pelican Cove West, it is being built in
three stages - one stage is almost finished - there are, he thinks, four
more units to go up - that is the first stage, on the north side. The
developer wants the City to accept that first stage. Mr. Siciliano
advised he can do that provided he brings in his plans, they have been
accepted, and he follows all of the improvements on the plan, then he
can go into the second stage, provided he brings in plans for that stage.
He doesn't know how the Planning Board approves them. But he cannot
start the second stage until the plans have been approved, etc.
Mr~ Siciliano suggested if the Board feels this is a justifiable request,
they will have to work on a Subdivision Ordinance. It is in the 880,
page 1703. It is a large Ordinance. He read the application fee section
of the Ordinance to the Board, and on page 1719 he read the requirements
for posting a maintenance bond. He stated that it doesn1t say anywhere
in the Ordinance that they can't build and sell.
Mr. Sadowski stated that he felt the builder should have approval of
the Zoning and Planning Board before he can build. Mr. Siciliano
stated that Mr. Sadowski is saying he has to have all the streets,
utilities, street lights in, etc., and he thinks that will go over like
a lead balloon. Mr. Sadowski advised that the same thing happened in
Florida Shores. Mr. Siciliano stated that that did not belong to the
City. Briley, Wild is concerned with new developments, they are trying
to control the building until the utilities and all improvements are
completed. If they do it the way Mr. Sadowski has suggested, the
developer would have to work 6 to 7 months before he could start to build.
Mr. Sadowski advised the Board that in his old town in Europe, they
were required to put the sewers, water, lights, curbs in and then they
built the houses, after that they put the roads in so the roads were
not ruined before the project was completed. Mr. Opal stated that
the plan goes to the Planning Department first - all the setbacks,
sewers, etc.
Mr. Wheeler made a motion to table-the letter concerning the request
from Briley, Wild until the next meeting. Mr. Sadowski seconded the
motion. Motion CARRIED 5-0.
MISCELLANEOUS
John Stearns from Aqua Park swimming pool asked the Board if it would
be possible to add some video games at the pool so that when the
children are there they could take a break from swimming by entertaining
themselves besides swimming, alone. He does not want to create a game
room atmosphere, nor does he want to compete with any game room facility.
He stated he was in an industrial zone. Mr. Siciliano stated it was I-I.
Mr. Stearns stated he was requesting a special request to the Board to
put the games in.
Mr. Siciliano advised Mr. Stearns that any games over 4 are considered
principle use and under that, accessory use. It was recommended to the
City Council to have them in B-3 and B-5, which is all along the highway.
None of them were recommended for industrial. Mr. Stearns asked if
there was anyway this could be brought before the Commissioner. Mr.
Siciliano answered that it has not been passed yet, however, there is a
moratorium on all video games right now. He advised Mr. Stearns that
he could go before the City Council when they have a public hearing and
voice his desires at that time. He also advised Mr. Stearns that this
Board has been discussing this matter for the past few meetings and it
has been decided that the video games should be kept in the business
sections, however, the Council has the final say. Mr. Stearns asked
if this applied only if they put in over 4. Mr. Siciliano answered that
he could not put in any if the Council approves their recommendations.
If you are in commercial, 4 or over, that special exceptions applies in
commercial and you have to apply to the Board of Adjustments. 3 or
under, as long as you appear before the Zoning Board and comply with the
recommendations, you can receive a license from the City.
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May 9, 1983
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Mr. Landry asked if they could apply for a variance. Mr. Siciliano
stated no, not unless it is allowed under special exception, according
to the Code Book.
Mr. Siciliano asked Mr. Stearns what else was in his area. Mr. Stearns
advised that it was all industrial. Mr. Siciliano advised that the
Board was concerned about control of video games. His only recommendation
was for Mr. Stearns to go to the City Council at the public hearing and
try and convince them to make a special exception.
ORDINANCE 880
Permitted Uses: Mr. Siciliano stated that the list furnished to the
members of the Board is a list the staff has prepared and recommend
they be included in the different zones. This list has to be compared
to the existing list that is already there. Susan Wadsworth informed
the Board that they went down through the occupational licenses from
the first time they came into being and applied that to the zones that
they are in. Mr. Siciliano stated that some have licenses and are not
in the book as permitted use, which has happened quite a bit.
Susan Wadsworth informed the Board that in the B-2 zoning they had a
big problem, under mini warehouses it states for storage purposes, only.
A lot of the mini warehouses are doing business other than as a mini
warehouse. She advised something has to be done as she cannot physically
check out these applications, physically. Mr. Siciliano stated that
this was brought up at the last meeting - someone has a mini warehouse,
requiring only one parking space, then it is converted to a store,
requiring 4 parking spaces, and they get away with it. Susan Wadsworth
advised that it is being required that they do the parking on the back
of the occupational license form so it can be checked. If there is not
enough parking they can refuse to give them the license.
Mr. Siciliano advised that to cover the City, if they build a mini
warehouse and it is approved, and they want to change it, they must
come back to the Planning Board to approve it.
Susan Wadsworth discussed a case she had recently where a woman came in
for a license, stating she was going to be making clothes on consignment,
and would be using the warehouse for that purpose. I advised her that
she could not operate a business such as that in B-2. Mr. Siciliano
advised Susan to send her to the Planning Board. Mr. Sadowski felt
that mini warehouses should not be in B-2 as more would be used as
manufacturing. Mr. Siciliano stated that it could be controlled by
requiring approval if you change the use. However, he does not know
how you could correct what has already happened. Susan advised that if
they go out of business, it can be reverted back to the original mini
warehouse. Mr. Landry asked how they could go from a mini warehouse to
a business. He was advised that they just do it, there is no enforcement.
Mr. Siciliano stated that the Building Inspector is the only one who
can enforce it, at this point. The staff can give us a list of the
places and we will send the list to the Building Inspector. The list
can be sent to the Planning Board and have them to do the same thing.
Mr. Wheeler stated that converting the mini warehouses is illegal and
why can't we notify the people who are doing this that it is illegal.
Mr. Siciliano stated he felt the only one who can do that is the
Building Inspector, he writes a complaint and then goes before the
Code Enforcement Board.
Alice Murphy suggested that the mini warehouse be given another zone,
such as B-2S where there could be nothing but storage. Mr. Siciliano
stated there would be no place to put that. If someone has an occupat-
ional license, there would be no way to correct the problem. Susan
Wadsworth informed the Board that if someone were to come in for a body
shop in B-2, the Building Inspector could go out and check if it is a
mini warehouse, if it is, she could notify the person and he could go
before the Zoning Board for a special exception.
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Zoning Commission Meeting Minutes
May 9, 1983
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Mr. Siciliano suggested that the mini warehouses be deleted from B-2,
make them nonconforming and if anything happens to them they are out of
business. If something is nonconforming and destroyed 50% they cannot
rebuild it, cannot add on, or if they go out of business. Mr. Wheeler
asked where you would place the mini warehouses, in I-I? Mr. Siciliano
stated they should be in I-I.
Alice Murphy suggested that a sentence be added that mini warehouses
are only to be used for storage, and if they are used other than storage,
then they are in violation. Mr. Siciliano stated that if you take them
to Court for being in violation they will advise you that we gave them
a license for it. He suggested that maybe, when the license expires,
make a recommendation from the Board that the City not renew the license.
You would have to check and see if that is legal or not. Mr. Siciliano
said he would check with Mr. Alvarez on this matter.
Mr. Siciliano questioned about when someone came in with site plans
showing offices, it was approved, and then they have small condos or
motels there. They were approved for offices and then people are
buying them and living in them. Something should be put in the Ordinance
that if it is approved for a certain us~, they cannot change that use
unless they go before the Planning Board. There is nothing in the
Code Book that states that. What often happens is they build them, they
cannot rent them, they stay vacant for a year, everyone has forgotten
them, and then they make a motel or something out of them.
Mr. Stewart asked the Board why it took so long to get the Council IS
opinion on different matters. Mr. Siciliano advised him that it did not
really take a long time.
Mr. Opal informed the Board that Planning has sent to the Council that
Zero Lot Lines be eliminated from the Code Book and this will go before
them at the meeting on May 16, 1983.
Mr. Siciliano suggested that they ask Council to accept rezoning 6
times a year, instead of four times a year.
Mr. Wheeler made a motion to have rezoning six times a year. The motion
was seconded by Mr. Stewart. Motion CARRIED 5-0.
Zero Lot Line
Mr. Siciliano stated that the requirement for the side yard shall be
o or a minimum of 20', this being the area in question. He read the
passage from the Code Book concerning this requirement. He advised
the Board that Council sent this to the Planning Board, they recommended,
after several months of discussion, recommended that it be deleted from
the Ordinance. He feels it should have come to the Zoning Board for
their recommendations, the attorney agreed with him. If they throw it
out there are no recommendations. Take, for example, a business
district downtown, there is a common wall with a fire wall, the owner
wants to sell to Winn Dixie, there are no provisions in here if it is
deleted. He felt it would be used for something like that or a townhouse
development where you have common walls and fire walls. If it is thrown
out, he doesnlt know if they can sell it as a townhouse. Mr. Stewart
stated there has to be a definition of the Zero Lot. Mr. Siciliano
advised that there is none. He stated that the confusion is the first
sentence - minimum side yard of 0 or a minimum of 20'. There is a big
difference between 0 and 20'. Mr. Siciliano felt it should be made 0
and maintain the setbacks per the zoning classification and stress the
fire walls, at whatever hour it needs to be.
Mr. Siciliano suggested the Board wait and see what the Council does.
He felt that the Board should get into it and rewrite something. Mr.
Opal stated that there was no definition why they have zero lot lines -
it was only put in within the last couple of years - they are only
good for the builders and developers to avoid division setbacks. Mr.
Siciliano stated they are needed for different things.
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Proposed Ordinance Changes for Game Rooms
Mr. Siciliano read the list of changes that the Board approved in
previous meetings. He asked the secretary to make copies of the list
for each Board member. This list will go to the attorney for final
drafting. He advised the members that he instructed the secretary to
omit the part concerning license revocation because there is one in
the book, however, the attorney feels it should be put back in because
the one in the book is too general.
R-4 - Permitted Uses - Multi-Family Dwelling
Susan Wadsworth asked that the Board look at this Ordinance on page
1556, wherein she read the Ordinance to the members. The minimum
floor area states 1,500 square foot of living area for each duplex,
nothing is stated for single family residences. The rest of the R1s
do - that one does not. There was a problem when the new Building
Inspector came in, a family came in in an R-4 area, single family,
the area in that home was 1,200 square feet, he pushed it back to them.
He questioned this as it doesn1t say anything for single family and it
should. She felt this should be brought to the attention of the Board
members. Mr. Stewart stated that in Item 4 it spells it out as 750
square feet per dwelling unit. That is on 1556.2 at the top of the
page. Susan advised she did not have that page in her book and neither
does the Building Inspector.
Mr. Siciliano thinks they are referring strictly to duplexes. This
is at 8106. R-5 says nothing about single family dwelling. Mr. Landry
advised that R-6 has single family dwelling. He asked where -most of
R-4 is located. Mr. Wheeler advised that it is Pelican Cove West and
East. Also Gas Light. Mr. Siciliano advised there is no minimum size
for the single family. The 8106 Ordinance put the duplexes in and they
are speaking only of duplexes. The duplexes weren1t in R-4. Mr. Stewart
stated that even 1,000 feet is real tight with two bedroom. The rooms
are very small. Mr. Wheeler wanted to know how many square feet are
in the small "dog" houses in Pelican Cove West. Mr. Siciliano advised
the builder can go as low as 750 feet. They are supposed to be duplexes.
Susan Wadsworth stated she feels there is single family in there also.
Mr. Opal stated he felt they~were single family homes and they use
zero lot 1 in e s .
Mr. Wheeler asked if there was anything they could do before Phase 2
is started in Pelican Cove West to eliminate the small houses. Mr.
Siciliano stated if there is zero lot line with the fire wall, etc.,
then he couldn1t separate them. He can separate them according to the
zero lot line definition now, but before you change the 750. for the
duplex, you have to go through public hearing. Mr. Siciliano stated
you cannot do anything until it is in the book. Mr. Landry felt that
he already has his permit. Mr. Wheeler advised he only has a permit
to finish the first phase. Mr. Siciliano suggested for the second
phase to have the Council put a moratorium on all building of duplexes
and so forth until you get a zero lot line definition. You could
recommend it to the Council. Mr. Siciliano suggested they wait until
after the Council meeting to see whether or not they throw it out.
Mr. Wheeler made a motion to let the Zero Lot Line matter ride until
after the Council meeting on May 16, 1983. Mr. Landry seconded the
motion. Motion CARRIED 5-0.
Mr. Siciliano brought up the R-4 single family dwelling issue that
Susan Wadsworth questioned. He stated the Board also has to consider
what else is in R-4, try to keep it compatible, don1t stick in a 1500
to 16001 home with 7501 unit. Mr. Wheeler stated that R-4 doesn't
state what the single family dwelling footage should be. Mr. Siciliano
stated that Florida Shores is 12001 now. Mr. Stewart suggested it
be put at 10001. Mr. Sadowski suggested 9201, making it smaller because
everyone cannot afford to live in a larger house.
Mr. Stewart made a motion to include in the R-4, R-5, R-5A and R6,
under the classification of single family dwelling, a minimum living
area of 1,000 square feet. Mr. Wheeler seconded the motion. Motion
CARRIED 4-1. Mr. Sadowski voted no.
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The meeting was adjourned at 9:05 P.M.
Minutes submitted by Susan Mista
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