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11-18-1980 Special r \ (J t.) t., '\ ' u <- ....,~~ CITY OF EDGEWATER ZONING BOARD SPECIAL MEETING November 18,1980 CALL TO ORDER ROLL CALL James Mackie Sebastian Siciliano Earl Wallace William Phinney M.F. Wheeler Ray Troian James Dyett Present Present Present Present Present Excused Present Chairman Mackie stated that the meeting is now turned over to City Attorney Woods. Attorney Woods explained that the reason for calling this meeting is to discuss the site plan that came to the Council for the Virmar project. He has some questions as to whether or not this falls under the Subdivision Ordinance. He read the definition of a subdivision: All divisions and redivisions of land, whether improved or unimproved, into two or more contiguous lots, building sites, parcels, units or interests, for the immediate or future purpose of sale, etc. He added that he doesn't actually know what this development is; it is shown as apartments, but he understands that they will be sold by metes and bounds description. Mr. Geil explained that they had several discussions with the City Planner and came up with apartments as a description, however if the word apartment is not suitable, it can be changed. He stated that there will be people who will buy more than one apartment and rent them, so he does not know whether that wording is wrong. Attorney Woods explained that this complex is not under single ownership, this is what eliminates this from an apartment. He added that in his opinion this is a major subdivision. Mr. Geil stated that this could be considered a condominium, but not a subdivision. Attorney Woods stated that a condominium is an undivided interest in property, you are selling this property with metes and bounds description, as you would a home. These lots are being conveyed by fee simple to each owner. Attorney Jack Bolt, representing Virmar II. He asked everyone to look at the purpose of the Subdivision Ordinance. One of the primary purposes is to protect the City from developers who come in and put in no roads,or insufficient roads and poor utilities and then expect the City to pick up on these things. This type project is sweeping the entire state, it is called a Pseudo Condominium, he named several complexes of this type now in New Smyrna Beach. What they are doing is selling in fee simple the ground underneath the slab and then all of the land around this is owned by the Home Owners Association, this association is totally responsible for the installation and upkeep of the roads. Also you .-- .'-".-. u o r don't have to get into the Condominium Act unless you go up three stories. People are trying to avoid this. In other words, this type of project does not pose the threat to the City of Edgewater that the Subdivision Ordinance is intended to protect the City from. This has been worked on for several weeks, these men have given up other jobs to do this, and all of the procedural steps have been followed in order to protect the City. There is still a great deal of uncertainity about the interpretation of this, it will be disasterous to throw this into the Subdivision. We are just hung up on a procedural point and the Subdivision Ordinance, which does not have to be acknowledged. It is within the jurisdiction of this board to acknowledge these matters or not to acknowledge them. No one will be threatened by giving this project the go ahead. Attorney Woods stated that as representative of the City he does not want to see a dangerous precedent set by saying that we are going to ignore the Subdivision Ordinance. He believes that what you have is a Townhouse development. He read the definition from page 1533 of the Code book. Mr. Slaney explained that the City Planner was completely satis- fied with this layout, and had explained to him that an Ordinance was coming up for approval which would allow this to come in the zoning that we had under special exceptions. Ohairman Mackie read Ordinance No.0-69 by title to Mr. Slaney. There was discussion about the dimensional requirements involved under this zoning. and the requirements under the Subdivision Ordinance. Attorney Woods read the definition of Condominium on page 1522 of the Code book. Mr. Wallace stated that in his opinion this does not fall under a Subdivision as closely as it does a Condominium. He feels that we are having a play on words over something that would only enhance the appearance of the City. Mr. Phinney stated that this is more of a Subdivision. There is some uncertainity as to what to call this. We have to become specific. This is a time of large growth within the City. Rentals are not going to care for the roads and so forth, if it is a Subdivision,the roads would be maintained. These types of things are going to be coming up rapidly and we should make sure of what we are doing now. Chairman Mackie agreed that we are trying to find a solution which will help us in the future. Mr. Phinney suggested that the board members investigate the concept that these men are presenting, and try to find a solution in a maximum of two weeks, so as not to hold them up any longer. Attorney Woods explained that he asked for this meeting to point out these questions and he feels that the board needs to carefully consider the definitions that you have before making a final decision. There was discussion again about the definition of a Subdivision. and the layout of this complex. Mr. Winter spoke to the board, explaining that this is set up for people who want to get away from a lot of the recreational type complex. They already have thirty four commitments. He stated that he can not understand the negativeness in regard to this. -2- Zoning Bd. 11/18/80 o o Mr. Wallace asked if the way this is being set up will everyone pay into the association, and is the purpose of this for land- scaping and repair and maintenance? Attorney Woods explained that these are being sold fee simple therefore, this association will be uneffective in providing an assessment against property; it could not be enforced. Attorney Bolt stated that the association is prior to the home- stead and they can impose an assessment. It is a contractual lien, just like a purchase money mortgage. They have a right to foreclose if this is not paid. Attorney Woods had some questions in regard to this. He is to meet with Attorney Bolt and discuss it. Mr. Phinney made a motion that a couple of members of the board form a committee with the City Attorney and representatives of this association and get together to discuss this and get these questions straightened out and come back in two weeks to make a decision. Mr. Mackie stated that this can not be done by just a couple of members from the board, that would be taking authority away from the board. We would have to have a quorum to take a vote. Attorney Woods stated that he feels that the best solution is for the board members to consider what has been brought out up to date and study the definitions that you have then meet again to decide. There was more discussion about the time involved ,already on this. It was suggested that the board meet again this Thursday. Mr. Phinney made a motion that we meet again on Thursday to take up the Roche property, the City Attorney is to meet with their representative in the mean time and come back to our meeting to let us know what has been worked out as to defining the type of property, being seconded by Mr. Wheeler Mr. Wallace had a question about zero lot lines being included in the Subdivision Ordinance? Mr. Siciliano explained that the Subdivision Ordinance itself deals with the streets and utilities, as far as the lots and dimensions, you have to refer back to Ordinance No. 880 and stay under the proper zoning qualifications that you are in. The motion CARRIED unanimously. Ohairman Mackie stated that the next item for discussion is Mr. Pilch's site plan. This is to be built on Old County Road and Ocean Avenue. It was explained to Mr. Pilch that the board needs to either see a copy of the deed, or a letter from the owner that is notarized can be brought in. Mr. Pilch explained that as soon as this is approved he will consumate the deal and buy the land. He will get the statement notarized. Chairman Mackie stated that he looked over this the other day. This is a new type of duplex. -3- Zoning Bd. 11/18/80 ~ o o Mr. Pilch went over his drawings with the board members. The dimensions were checked, and discussed among the ~embers and Mr. Pilch. He has 3.2 acres of land. Attorney Woods asked if these duplexes are going to be sold as individual units or one unit. Mr. Pilch stated that arrangements are being made so that they can be sold individually. The board members went over the remarks made by the supervisors. Mr. Pilch explained his solutions to the enclosed garbage con- tainers. Each individual duplex will have their own cans. Mr~ Wallace asked if this is here for site plan review? It was explained that he would like to have site plan approval now, if we can do it. Ohairman Mackie stated that he spoke sewer line. There is a school going will have to be torn up and they are bus will be able to reroute itself. permission to do this. with Mr. Bosse about the in this area. The road not sure that the school They may have to get Mr. Pilch stated that the problem is that the existing sewer line has a manhole that does not cover the last two or three lots, therefore a manhole or sewer system has to be run down the street. This is strictly an engineering problem as to how this will be done. Chairman Mackie stated that this would have to go through the City Engineers, which is Briley, Wild. Mr. Pilch stated that engineering jobs cost a lot of money. Ohairman Mackie explained that even if the board accepts this, it probably will go on the condition that you will go through the Engineering Department. You will have to work with Mr. Bosse 'on this. Mr. Pilch stated that they have run sewers in regard to other houses they have built, Mr. Bosse and I seem to get along quite well in that respect. Attorney Woods stated that this goes back to the same problem we previously discussed today. as far as a Subdivision goes. At this time the board members discussed the dimensional require- ments with Mr. Pilch~ It was decided that if he takes off the office building perhaps he could come under a minor subdivision classification. It was also suggested that he could reduce the lot size by eliminating a portion of the back of the property. This would leave room for draining and a buffer between the complex and the railroad tracks, which would actually be an improvement. Mr. Pilch was reminded that he will have to get the statement from the owner of the property notarized, and talk with Mr. Bosse about the sewer line problem. Mr. Pilch stated that that is no problem, other than when to spend the money. -4- Zoning Bd. 11/18/80 o o It was explained to Mr. Pilch that since he is intending to sell these duplexes, he will have to come under the Minor Subdivision classification. He explained his reasoning for going to the expense of having these financed individually, however~ from what he is finding out it would be more economical for him to build duplexes and keeping them under one ownership for rental purposes only. There was discussion again about this project having to go through the other proper procedures. Mr. Pilch explained that a contractor can not afford to pay for engineering costs unless they know they have a viable project. I~ there is an engineering problem, it is just that, and can be solved by going one way or the other. Basically the existing lines are there and the sewer plant is capable of handling the flow, it is just getting this into the line. Chairman Mackie stated that the board's next regular meeting is the first week of December, however, they have scheduled a meeting for the 20th of this month if he won't be too rushed. Mr. Pilch stated that he could have the different set of plans back to the board on the 20th. He is to get in touch with the supervisors of the Water and Wastewater Departments. Mr. Siciliano explained that this form has to be filled out by all of these people before the board gets it back. There was discussion again about the definitions in the Code book~ Mr. Wallace suggested that perhaps a call to the County Planning Department to determine how they would define such a complex would be a good idea. Perhaps a new definition should be added to our book. Mr. Phinney stated that the Board of Adjustments gave the Roche project a special exception before the Zoning Board approved the site plan, and he feels that the boards should cooperate with each other and follow the proper procedures. It was explained to him that the site plan came in after the Zoning Board's monthly meeting and in order to save time it was sent to the Board of Adjustments. Attorney Woods stated that he thinks the Board of Adjustments was under the impression that this was an apartment complex. There was more discussion about the procedure to follow with a site plan. It is felt that the procedural order should be main- tained even if special meetings have to be called. Mr. Phinney made a motion to adjourn, being seconded by Mr. Wheeler. Meeting adjourned. Minutes submitted by: Debbie Sigler -5- /.,J-;;-7tJ Zoning Bd. 11/18/80 ~ ~ ~_.~O~