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07-16-1987 u u CITY OF EDGEWATER PLANNING AND ZONING BOARD REGULAR MEETING THURSDAY, JULY 16, 1987 9:00 A.M. COMMUNITY CENTER Vice Chairman George Quaggin called to order a regular meeting of the Planning and Zoning Board at 9:00 A.M., Thursday, July 16, 1987, in the Community Center. ROLL CALL: Members present were George Quaggin, Nancy Blazi, Billy Klein, Bill Rossiter, James Mackie and Paul Loeffler. M. F. Wheeler was excused. Also present were Lynne Plaskett, Planning Assistant/Grant Administrator, Connie Martinez, CMC, City Clerk/Administrator and Beverly Kinney, Board Secretary. APPROVAL OF MINUTES: The minutes of May 21, 1987 were presented for approval. Mrs. Blazi moved to approve the minutes, seconded by Mr. Loeffler. Mr. Mackie stated the Board members should receive some recognition in the minutes, and he felt the Board members comments were not mentioned enough. He felt whatever is on the tape should be typed into the minutes. Mrs. Blazi pointed out the only items required in the minutes is the motion, who made it and who seconded it. She added the minutes were a summary of the meeting and there was no reason to go into great detail in the minutes, because the tapes were always avail- able to listen to. Mrs. Martinez agreed with Mrs. Blazi and added there was not enough staff to type every comment made during a meeting. Motion Carried 5-0. Mr. Klein did not vote as he was not at the meeting of May 21, 1987. The minutes of June 18, 1987 were presented for approval. Mr. Rossiter moved to accept the minutes, seconded by Mrs. Blazi. Motion Carried 5-0. Mr. Loeffler did not vote as he was not at the meeting of June 18, 1987. SITE PLANS: SP-8713 Luis Geil Belmont Plaza B-5 U.S.l and Falcon Avenue: Mr. Geil and Mr. Paul Katz, Attorney for J.C. Carder, were present to discuss this site plan. Mr. Quaggin stated this plan replaced SP-8709. Mr. Mackie stated he was in favor of it, but he thought the gas pumps and the Falcon Avenue ingress and egress were to be eliminated, and they were on the new site plan. Mrs. Plaskett stated the gas pumps were not on this site plan. Mr. Mackie stated the ingress and egress on Falcon Avenue were. Mrs. Plaskett explained there were two (2) ingresses and egresses on the original site plan (SP-8709) on Falcon Avenue and traffic conges- tion was a concern. The developers followed state guidelines of being ~ne hundred (100) feet back from U.S. Highway 1. The City Engineer and the City Clerk/Admin- istrator agreed the developer could not be stopped from using Falcon Avenue, but the developer did agree to omit one driveway. Mr. Klein asked if there had been a legal opinion from the City Attorney regarding the use of Falcon Avenue for access to the proposed plaza, and felt the plan should be tabled until information requested from the City Attorney had been received. Mr. Katz stated the D.O.T. had jurisdiction on median cuts, and he would be quite surprised if D.O.T. would give a median cut within two hundred fifty (250) feet of an existing intersection. He also stated for safety, the developer had tried to route traffic on to existing streets. Mr. Katz stated he had met with City staff to go over section 606.04 regarding entrance driveways. After reviewing the ordinance it was decided that the ordinance does not say the only entrance you can have is on an arterial or collector road, but if you have an entrance on an arterial or collector road, then it must be placed one hundred (100) feet from an intersection. There is no prohibition against having the entrance on Falcon Avenue. Mr. Katz felt it made sense for the residents of Pelican Cove to have access to the "Plaza and for people who want to turn North ~n U.S: Highway # 1; M~s~ Blazi wanted to get more input regarding traffic safety in the area. The Board was informed that Falcon Avenue is a "publicly dedic?ted street in the city-. MORA CLARK 808 EGRET COURT felt there was just not enough room on the paved road to permit the increase in traffic, and if this was allowed there would eventually be deaths. Mr. Katz stated only one hundred forty (140) feet of Falcon Avenue would be affected by extra traffic. -1- o Q Mr. Katz went on to add if the driveway on Falcon Avenue is omitted, the residents of the subdivision will have to go to u.s. Highway 1 and make a U-turn somewhere to get into the shopping center. There was some discussion about possibly widening Falcon Avenue. HAROLD HARDESTER 817 EGRET COURT referred to the minutes of May 21, 1987, stating the street was dedicated in 1982 as a publicly dedicated street and ingress and egress must be off an arterial or collector road. Mr. Katz stated after reviewing it with staff it was determined the statement was made in error, as B-5 zoning does not require it must be on an arterial or collector road. Mrs. Blazi read the section of the ordinance in question aloud. Mr. Mackie wanted to know if Falcon Avenue would be able to handle the excess traffic. Mr~ Mackie also wanted to know about future commercial development on property owned by Mr. Carder on the South side of Falcon Avenue. Mr. Katz felt that the road must be built by state standards, and the ordinance requires it. There was more discussion as to traffic safety on Falcon Avenue. Mrs. Plaskett informed the public in 1982 the Planning Commission designated Falcon Avenue as a local street, but now wonders if the Board, at that time, had authority to do that. Mr. Hardester wanted to know who was to maintain Falcon Avenue. Mrs. Plaskett said the City, and the homeowners wanted to know why Mr. Carder was maintaining it. Mrs. Martinez stated it was because he chose to do so and if the homeowners assoc- iation wanted to take over maintenance it would be between them and Mr. Carder since the City has never done it. Mr. Hardester was concerned over the traffic volume that will be caused by the completion of Pelican Cove, and asked the Board for their help. Mrs. Plaskett stated on the original plat there was a second entrance to the rear of the subdivision to Coco Palm, but did not now if it would ever be opened. EILEEN LLOYD 810 EGRET COURT wanted to know what was planned for the lots in question and the South side of Falcon Avenue on the original plat. Mrs. Plaskett stated there was a provision in the ordinance for these partiuclar lots permitting townhouses as a special use, but did not know Mr. Carder's intent, at the time the plat was done. Mr. Mackie suggested four (4) laning Falcon Avenue to eliminate any possible congestion. Mr. Loeffler and Mr. Quaggin agreed. There was more discussion about the townhouses. Mr. Rossiter suggested widening Falcon Avneue when the South side of the property is developed. Mrs. Blazi asked how many people were in the homeowners association and she was told approximately seventy-five(75). Mrs. Blazi felt the Board should think seriously about the residents objections and concerns. Mrs. Blazi knew Mr. Carder had a right to develop his property, but felt there could be a compromise so the residents would be given some relief. Mr. Katz stated the only issue is the impact at the entrance to the subdivision on Falcon Avenue, but he felt it was for the benefit of the residents of the sub- division. Mr. Katz added D,O.T. would make the final decision, because they are the experts, and if there are additional restrictions they will make the determination. Mr. Klein expressed his concern about the traffic problem in the plaza itself. The building is only open to traffic on three sides so some traffic will have to go on U.S. Highway 1 and enter on the Souths ide of the shopping center. Mr. Klein also noted there are twenty-one (21) available units on each side of the building. Mr. Klein also felt there was not enough of a turning radius for large trucks or semi's making deliveries or pick-ups at the plaza which was another traffic hazard and felt the building should be shortened to allow for an adequate turning radius for large vehicles. Mr. Katz agreed from a planning standpoint, but also stated the rear drive was removed because of the landscape buffer requirement. Mr. Klein felt that was a way of circumventing the ordinance. Mr. Mackie discussed the turning radius for semi's at the Northwest section of the plaza. DEBBIE SOLOMON 802 EGRET COURT asked the Board not to act in haste on this site plan. Mr. Rossiter stated it was the Boards job to make sure the plans were in compliance. Ms. Solomon stated it was the Boards job to do that when the sub- division was granted over one hundred seventeen (117) variances. Ms. Solomon just wanted to be sure the developer does what's best for him and the community. Planning and Zoning Board Regular Meeting Thursday, July 16, 1987 -2- o o Mr. Klein moved to table SP-87l3 until a legal interpretation from the City Attorney could be received regarding Falcon Avenue, the radius for semi's needed in the plaza for adquate turn around and the traffic hazards the project will cause o~ Falcon Av~nue and u.s. Highway 1 need to be determined before the plan comes before~the Board again. Mrs. Blazi amended the motion to present the plan to D.O.T. regarding the question of traffic. Mr. Klein agreed to the amendment. Motion seconded by Mr. Mackie. Motion Carried 6-0. There was a ten (10) minute break (10:10 A.M. until 10:20 A.M.) Vice Chairman Quaggin recalled the regular meeting of the Planning and Zoning Board back to order at 10:20 A.M. ROLL CALL: Members present were George Quaggin, Nancy Blazi, Billy Klein, Bill Rossiter, James Mackie and Paul Loeffler. M.F. Wheeler was excused. Also present were Lynne Plaskett, Planning Assistant/Grant Administrator, Connie Martinez, CMC, City Clerk/Administrator and Beverly Kinney, Board Secretary. SITE PLANS: SP-8714 William Rossiter Storage Building B-2 Guava Drive: Mr. Rossiter was present to discuss this site plan. Mrs. Plaskett informed Mr. Rossiter he would need to change the six (6) inch P.V.C. pipe shown on the plan to twelve (12) inch pipe, as per the Public Works Director, and the number of cubic feet of retention area needed to be shown on the plans. Mr. Rossiter agreed to correct these problems. Mrs. Blazi commented the only thing the City Engineer supplies is drainage and storm water information, and she wanted to know if he couldn't supply information on turn arounds, traffic patterns, road conditions, etc. on all commercial projects. Mrs. Plaskett said the City Engineer had been with the County and should be able to look at the overall design on the pl&ns he ~ets and make additional comments. There was some discussion regarding work orders to the City Engineer, and the fact the additional cost would be passed onto the developer. The type of business and the wall separation was discussed on SP-8714. Mrs. Blazi moved to accept the site plan, seconded by Mr. Leoffler. Motion Carried 5-0. Mr. Rossiter did not vote, because of conflict of interest. SP-8715 Mr. Geil vacating from St. plan had Luis Geil Offices B-3 612 S. Ridgewood Avenue (formerly SP-8529) was present to discuss this site plan. He explained the problems with an easement. He had pulled a demolition permitiand had gotten approval Johns. Mr. Geil tried to pull the building permit and was told the, site expired. Mr. Klein stated he had problems with this project. VERBATUM: Mr. Klein: If your building permit expired, site plan, and you did not have a building permit, at that point, I go by where you're talking about here, and I see plumbing, concrete poured, plumbing sticking up out of it and so forth. How were you able to do that? Mr. Geil: Oh, when I submitted for that, and I applied for a foundation permit in the building department. Foundation only, and I haven't poured any concrete except for the footing and the stem wall. Mr. Klein: How can you get a foundation permit? Mr. Geil: By applying and paying the fee for a foundation permit. Mr. Klein: This goes back to some of the crap that's being pulled in this City. If you'll pardon the expression, throughout the time I've been here, I don't see where, when you don't have a site approval, that you can come and get a foundation permit to go ahead with the building. Will somebody explain that to me? Mr. Chairman? Mr. Quaggin: That's a gamble they take. Mr. Geil: You have the plan approved before and it still is the same way as we had it approved before, got all the other permits cleared, so it's a gamble, I'm sure, for a couple of weeks. Planning and Zoning Board Regular Meeting Thursday, July 16, 1987 -3- o o Mr. Mackie: Luis, this was rela...excuse...are you finished there with that? Mr. Klein: How can we do this? Mrs. Plaskett: I don't...to be perfectly honest with you, I drove by there and I asked Luis, how did he do it, too, and um, he just informed me he applied for his permit and he was given it, so... Mr. Klein: Who issued it? Mrs. Plaskett: I don't know. Who issued it? Mr. Geil: Building Department. Mr. Leoffler: They can do that for a house...Mr. Klein, Mr. Rossiter and Mr. Loeffler were all speaking at the same time. Each comment can not be determined. Mr. Loeffler: for a residence, but not for a commercial building. Mr. Rossiter: It seems to me that we should have Dennis here. Mr. Loeffler: The reason they do it for a residence, I think, is so they can get their first draw on the building. Mr. Klein: I want to go back here to 715.02, site plan approval. Prior to the issuance of a building permit, a site plan must be approved subject to review by City Council, by the Planning and Zoning Board for any activity related to dev- elopment, the building, the clearing, the subdividing or the adding to a building or changing the use of any land and so on and so forth...zoned districts except that of a single family residence and duplexes shall be exempt from site plan process. It doesn't say anything about the commercial property we are talking about right know. Mrs. Blazi: Well, I mean it's... Mr. Klein: I think it's a violation of yea, I think it's a violation of our procedures, a blatant violation. Mrs. Blazi: I think Mrs. Martinez has gone to get the Building Official. Mr. Rossiter: Do they, ah... Mr. Klein: And I think this ought to be referred to the City Council for disciplinary action. Mr. Rossiter: Paul, from your experience, are you saying they differentiate between a building permit and a foundation permit? Mr. Loeffler: Well see, for residential you don't come before the Planning Board, so it's... Mr. Klein: He automatically... Mr. Leoffler: It's at the discretion of the Building Inspector. Mr. Rossiter: Oh yea... Mr. Loeffler: Building Official... Mr. Quaggin: Here's the Building Official, do you want to present your problem, your question? Mr. Klein: Yea, I'm concerned about the work that's being done when there is no site plan approval, building permit had expired, is that not correct? Mr. Geil and Mrs. Plaskett: No, site plan. Mr. Klein: site plan, o.k., site plan, ah, had expired, where he says that he obtained a foundation permit through th~ Building Department. Mr. Fischer: You can obtain a foundation permit in instances like this situation. They have been granted before, where the foundation can be dug, poured, but in no way does that have any guarantee to the contractor that any site plan can be or will be approved. Planning and Zoning Board Regular Meeting July 16, 1987 -4- o o Mr. Fischer continued: The site plan was approved a year ago and after the approval it was found that a sewer easement, which should have been caught prior to the site plan approval before, stopped the project from permitting. And he had to go back and, I believe you know the background, is that he had to go back and spend excess of four (4) to six (6) months, I believe, with the City, for the vacation of a sewer easement. The vacation of the sewer easement finally came in with only, I think, a week or two left on the site plan. Mr. Geil had been contacting me throughout the whole period of this site plan and requested a foundation permit, which is left up to the discretion of the Building Official to give him permission to dig and pour the footers. Mr. Klein: Would you say this site plan, or this foundation permit, is a building permit then? Mr. Fischer: 'No, it's not. It's a foundation permit. It gives you only permission to go ahead and dig the footers. Mr. Klein: Under what authority, then, do you grant that? Mr. Fischer: It's in the Southern Building Code and also in our Ordinance. Mr. Klein: It's in what? Mr. Fischer: It's in the Soutern Building Code and also in our Ordinance. A Foundation permit... Mr. Klein: And where is it in our Ordinance? Mr. Fischer: We accepted the Southern Building Code. Mr. Klein: No, where is it in our Ordinance? Mr. Fischer: We adopted the Southern Building Code. In the Southern Building Code is this provision. Mr. Klein: We have an Ordinance 715-02, Site Plan Approval. It says prior to the issuance of a building permit, a site plan must be approved, subject to review by City Council, by the Planning and Zoning Board for any activity related, Any Activity, related to the development, the building, the clearing, subdividing, adding to a building or changing the use of any land use in all the districts zoned districts, except that of a single family or a duplex. And I'm saying at this point, I feel that you have violated your office. Mr. Fischer: The site plan was approved in... Mr. Klein: foundation I'm saying But it ran out, and after the site plan ran out, you approved a permit which should not have been approved under our Ordinances, and it's a violation of your office. Mr. Quaggin: I believe he approved the foundation permit before the site plan approval expired. Is that correct? Mr. Fischer: The request was made prior to that, yes. v Mr. Klein: But you approved it afterwards. Mr. Fischer: Well, the date probably, for the final application and the issuance of the permit may have been after the expiration date. Mr. Klein: I think we ought to know exactly when that was. Mr. Geil: Some in agreement... (everyone talking at once. Conversation lost) Mrs. Blazi: Just one second,what we obviously have, when Dennis is saying that we adopted the Southern Building Code, ah, it comes, it is part of an Ordinance, our Ordinance, and ah, they adopted it, the whole thing, even though the whole thing isn't necessarily in there. Mr. Fischer: That book is larger than this book. Planning and Zoning Board Regular Meeting Thursday, July 16, 1987 -5- o o Mrs. Blazi: Yea, right, so he has a conflict obviously, or there is a conflict in our Ordinances, I mean. One states this, and then as far as he's concerned, the other states the Southern Building Code, which according to him gives him, and I'm sure he can show it to us in black and white, gives him the discretion to do this. It's the same old story we've got an awful lot of, I mean when you write something like this and you adopt other things, you're going to have one overlapping,. or one almost taking out the other, in other words. And I don't know how you solve that problem basically, I mean somethings can be eliminated and cut down, but basically your going to have a conflict. Mr. Mackie: Well don't you think Nancy.;. Mrs. Plaskett: I think the problem is...excuse me. Mr. Quaggin: 'Luis "has the floor; Mr. Mackie: Oh, I'm sorry. Mr. Geil: After the site plan was approved, my first step was in November of last year, to pull a permit of the demolition of the first building, which is part of the process in getting the construction going, after site plan approval, that was after site plan approval, then I had to pursue the permit for the St. Johns river, storm water permit. I finally got that and that took about seven (7) months until that was straightened out. I got the St. Johns permit just about a week or two before a site plan expired. Mr. Mackie: Yea. Mr. Geil: How can I, ah, there's no provlslon in the City Ordinance to request an extension of site plan, so the only thing is, yet, when we discovered this, we immediately put on the agenda again, pay for ah, new fees for site plan approval and go the whole route again. Now for comparison, the City of New Smyrna is con- sidering now, that there is a possibility of extension of site plan. The City of Edgewater hasn't been in that situation yet, but this was a situation,ah, really out of my control. Mr. Klein: I understand that, I perfectly understand that you ran into a lot of problems. What I'm saying is that there's too many times that procedures are circumvented in this City by individuals that should never have happened. Mr. Geil: It was not an intention on my part. Mr. Klein: To me this is, to me this is a blatant violation of, of our site plan approval. It should have never been done, and it's a , with you leaving (referring to Mr. Fischer). I'm still going to suggest that it be referred to the City Council immediately for an investigation. Mr. Quaggin: You got something Jim? Mr. Mackie: Yea, I was just going to bring this to Luie's attention, for his information, related to the water management, there's three (3) letters related to it which was on March the 23rd, 1987. This three (3) letters... Mr. Geil: Yea, that's the permit, the storm water permit... \ Mr. Mackie: Yea, I just wanted, you had mentioned it, but it didn't mention a date, but I wanted to let you know that I have a copy of it. Another thing, Mr. Chairman, I would like to bring to the attention of the Board, that Mr. Dennis should be brought in and recognized as the Building Inspector of the City of Edgewater so we get it on the table, and what it's for. He was summoned to come to the Board. Mr. Quaggin: Take care of that Beverly. Mrs. Plaskett: Can I say something? Mr. Klein: I would like to see the date that it was approved, immediately. Mrs. Blazi: The date what was approved? Mr. Klein: The foundation permit. Mrs. Plaskett: By law we are required to adopt the Southern Building Code, because that's what we have to go by. We can't just make up our own rules and regulations as to what, you know, we can use. . Planning and Zoning Board Regular Meeting Thursday, July 16, 1987 -6- o o Mr. Loeffler: City Code overrides all state codes. Mrs. Plaskett: Is that true? Mrs. Blazi: I did't think so. Mr. Mackie: No. Mr. Fischer: As long as it is not in direct conflict, you can make laws more stringent. Mr. Loeffler: That's what I mean... Mrs. Plaskett: If ours are more stringent, then it overrules... Mr. Fischer: They don't supersede by no means, no. Mr. Mackie: You could follow the same as our Building Code has in our books as long as it's the same or better, but you can't make it worse. Mrs. Plaskett: Let me ask you a... Mr. Mackie: That's what you gotta follow Mrs. Plaskett: I would like to get a clarification in my mind. I din't know this was going to be brought up, but your saying that That says no building permit may be issued (referring to Mr. Klein and the Code Book) and you're saying (Mr. Fischer) that that's not a building permit. Is that what you're saying? Mr. Fischer: That's a foundation permit. Mrs. Plaskett: Which is not a building permit? Mr. Fischer: In fact, if you read that, the site plan was approved, the question there, doesn't say anything about expiration, it says a site plans expire in a period of one year. Mrs. Plaskett: Right. Which means it's null and void, it's like it never happened, and it's gotta come back. Mr. Fischer: So there's no violation, I believe, of that... site plan... Mr. Klein: So it's null and void at this point when you issued it. Mrs. Plaskett: Right, it didn't exist any more. Mr. Klein: That's right, it did not exist. Mrs. Plaskett: That's why he's got the new application, with the new fee and... Mr. Mackie: In other words, the foundation not considered of the building if the, the building itself? Mrs. Plaskett: Well that's what I was asking Dennis. Mr. Mackie: Yea. Mr. Fischer: No, a foundation permit... Mrs. Plaskett: He's saying a building permit, he says it's not a building permit, but a foundation permit. Mr. Fischer: I can get, ah, the section of the Building Code and quote you that section for foundation permits, at the discretion of the Building Department. Mr. Klein: I would like for you... Iwould like for you to get that. I would also like to have the copy and the date that you approved the foundation permit. Planning and Zoning Board Regular Meeting Thursday, July 16, 1987 -7- o o Mr. Fischer left the meeting at this time to get the information requested. The Board continued their discussion about updating the ordinance to allow for extensions on site plan approval for circumstances beyond the control of the developer. Mrs. Blazi moved to have Mrs. Plaskett put together the proposed change to allow the Planning and Zoning Board to give extensions on site plan approvals, without renewal of application, seconded by Mr. Klein. Motion Carried 6-0. There was some disccusion among the Board regarding the driveway width on SP-871S. The site plan showed a width of twelve (12) feet, but the Board felt eighteen (18) feet would be more appropriate, even though it is a one-way drive. Mrs. Balzi moved to accept the site plan. Mr. Loeffler amended the motion adding the driveway would be made eighteen (18) feet, with Mrs. Blazi accepting the amendment. Mr. Loeffler seconded the motion. Motion Carried 6-0 Mr. Fischer returned to the meeting at this time. Mr. Quaggin: Well, Dennis is back with his report. Mr. Fischer: O.K. I found the issuance dates of the foundation permit to be June 24th. Application discussion for foundation permit was prior to that. The Southern Building Code does state, under Design and Load Standards (section 1201.3), there is a section in the City Ordinance for foundation permits, but I was unable to find it. That the occupational permits for building herein, other residential buildings filed with the Building Official with application for permits, shall show each drawing in live loads per square foot area coverage, which the building is designed the occaptional permits for building herein, erectea will not be issued until the floor loads and designs have been made. Change in the occupation of the building, change in the occupancy of the building now existing and it continues on and on about load tests and things of that nature. On this section, chapter twelve (12). Mr. Klein: You haven't read anything that says though, that it provides for the provision for it ah, the building permit, or the,_ the permit, where does it say in there that you, that provides for the permit? Mr. Fischer: This is for the design. Mr. Klein: Just the design? Mr. Fischer: Just design. We picked this up from the Southern ah, Southern Building Code, which we've adopted. There is a section in the City Ordinances under chapter seven (7), and I could not find it, it may not be in chapter seven (7), maybe in another area. I would be more than happy to research that and give you an answer, but at a moments notice... Mr. Klein: At this point, you haven't ready anything to me that, that provides a means for you to approve a footer foundation. Mr. Fischer: It's been a common practice, it was a common practice prior to my coming here. I, this section is in there, and I will be more than willing to find it. Mrs. Blazi: Is that on residences Dennis or... Mr. Fischer: I looked under chapter seven (7) quickly and I couldn't find that area. Mrs. Blazi: Because there certainly is a difference on residences, I mean, allowing them to get started... Mr. Fischer: Umhum. Mrs. Blazi: Prior to, because of, of pulling money for building and all that, um. Mr. Fischer: I still kinda go back to the original section this, Luis got approval for the building, and the site plan, and we started issuing permits back and for demolition, house demolition. Mr. Geil: In November. Planning and Zoning Board Regular Meeting Thursday, July 16, 1987 -8- o o Mr. Fischer: In November as an ongoing process. Mr. Rossiter: Did you get one for the trailer too? I noticed you have a trailer... Mr. Fischer: Yea, we give a trailer occupation permit for the, because the real estate office there had to go somewher. Because they were going to tear down the building while they're waiting on new construction, the temporary office was given a permit, by the City Clerk ah, back in what? November... Mr. Geil: and renewed in March... Mr. Fischer: and renewed again in March. All this waiting approval for the City Council to vacate the sewer easement, and foundation permits, which had been done in the past, could be given for the foundation preparation and pour, which was done. Mr. Klein: Well, this being the first time that I've had heard about em, and I don't care whether it's been done in the past or not. You're all aware of, on this Board, and throughout the City, my intension to stop some of the stuff that's going on in this City that is illegal. Therefore I'm recommending that this Board send to the City Council, immediately, a directive that we feel you are in blatant violation of your bffice in issuing this permit. Mr. Fischer: I object. Mr. Klein: Well, you can object if you want to, but you're not a member of the Board. Mrs. Blazi: I can't go along with the blatant violation ah, at this point and time... Mr. Klein: Well, violation then... Mrs. Blazi: Well even now at, right now, because I don't have all the facts, urn, however, I think that certainly Dennis knows as well as any of us, all the building going on, and I think that Mr. Klein is expressing our concern and a lot of the concerns of the citizens that everything is suddenly moving too fast, or maybe has been for quite sometime. Urn, I would like all of these whatever Dennis based, or has said it has been done in the passed whatever it is based on, I would like to see that. Mr. Klein: That's procedure Nancy, that has nothing to do with it. Mrs. Blazi: Well, he feels he has a back up, and I think we need to know what that is, and where it maybe in conflict with our zoning ordinance. Mr. Mackie: Ah, may I speak? Why don't we do it this way and save a lot of problems and might hurry up the job. In the event the, our Building Inspector should run across a situation that we just have here at the present time, is entirely different what out ordinance in the City says he has, he had under the Southern Building Code isn't it? Where is he, gone? Mrs. Plaskett: He left. Mr. Mackie: He's under the Southern Building Code... Mr. Klein: There was no provision in that...that he read. Mr. Mackie: Yea, but I mean, you is urn, what I'm saying is ah, I forgot what I already said, you, you keep quiet for a minute. Mr. Klein: Alright, I'm sorry Mr. Mackie: And the Building inspector should get immediately in touch with Lynne related to a situation of this kind and find out if there's something we can do to correct it, instead of ah, because if it can be corrected in the, and he feels he's right, because it's the Southern Building code, well we, we have the right to have a building code of our own, but you can not be worse than what the Southern Building Code is. You can be the same, or you can be better. Now if your complying with the, we're using the Southern Building Code in our book and this is what it has in here, he has to comply to our, by our building code. So I think Lynne should have the opportunity to look at it, in, in the event he comes in this kind of situation again to avoid a lot of problems, and it'll be much faster than, than sittin down arguing this point, that point, and all that kind of stuff and cause a lot of hard feels. I hate to see him get in trouble, but I'd be the first one to back him in the corner if I find Planning and Zoning Board Thursday, July 16, 1987 Regular Meeting -9- o o Mr. Mackie continued: dofillo (sounds like) forget this guy from, be right there, and I think this would be the easy way out, and I'd make that a motion. Mr. Quaggin: Nancy? Mrs. Blazi: Well, I don't, I think Jim, we're stepping into an area of administration frankly that ah, is not our ah, not up to us to set up the administration procedures in the City as to whom reports to who, or who goes to who. I would like to see Dennis come back to us ah, with whatever he feels gave him the authorization of gives him the authorization to do this. Mr. Mackie: He says he's goin' by the Southern Building Code. Mrs. Blazi: I understand that, and he can't find something he was looking for... because this was dropped on... Mr. Mackie: Ours don't comply with the Southern Building Code... Mrs. Blazi: I know it doesn't, and we have a problem. Mrs. Plaskett: That's why she wants to see it. Mrs. Blazi: Let him come back to us ah, let him come back prepared, cause he obviously wasn't today and ah... Mr. Rossiter: Her he comes now. Mrs. Blazi: O.K. And give us, how he feels, I agree just cause things were done in the past, does'nt necessarily make em right. We've lived under that for too long, but if he feels he obviously has that authorization, he feels he has the back- up in writing... Mr. Fischer: Excuse me. Mrs. Blazi: And we feel there's a conflict then we need to correct that conflict... and I think the Building Official has the right to defend himself. Mr. Mackie: We aIls have (unable to understand) Mrs. Blazi: I understand that and so does he. He's got two (2) or three (3) books. Mr. Mackie: O.K. Mr. Fischer: O.K. Mrs. Blazi: I'm not standing up one way or the other, I'm just saying this was dropped on him. I think he has the oppor... should have the opportunity to get all his information together, and to present it to us ah,' so that we know where he stands and we can take it from there, as far as what we have to do. Mr. Mackie: Well, I said the same thing only says... Mrs. Blazi: Fine, I'm sorry. I did'nt mean to repeat what you said. Mr. Mackie: He should confer with Lynne. Mrs. Blazi: I'm saying...No, not with Lynne, because I don't think it's up to us to say that the Building Official should check with Lynne. I think that's administration. Mr. Mackie: When he runs across a problem what, what you're... Mr. Klein: With our Board? She's our representative. Mrs. Plaskett: Normally he would, normally he does. Everyone started talking at the same time: He has in the past... conversation lost. Mr. Quaggin: Dennis you have the floor. Planning and Zoning Board Regular Meeting Thursday, July 16, 1987 -10- o o Mr. Fischer: Mr. Chairman, Southern Building Code, Section 101.6 (should be 106.6) I was in the wrong section. I was under design, I'm sorry, caught a little unaware. 101.6 (should be 106.6) Foundation Permits: An application for permit to erect or enlarge a building, has been filed, and pending issuance of such permit, the Building Official may, at his discretion , issue a special permit of foundation of such building, the holder of such a special permit shall proceed at his work, risk and without assurance that permit for the superstructure will be granted. Quoting Southern Building Code Section 11.6 under foundations, adopted by the City of Edgewater. Mr. Quaggin: Thank you. Mr. Klein: That anybody that gets, that wants to come before this Board for any commercial building, can go to the Building Official and get a foundation permit at his own risk. Is that correct? Mr. Loeffler: Yea, unless you want to change it from the way it sounds. Mr. Klein: Then I think there needs to be a provision, immediately adopted by the City Council to stop this. Mr. Quaggin: Actually why .should we care, they're gambling...they're gambling if they don't... Mr. Rossiter: Their risk. Mr. Quaggin: Get it, tough luck. Mr. Klein: Well it gets back to the same thing that we been talking about and talking about, that's violation of procedures. Mr. Quaggin: Yea, but that's legal. Mrs. Plaskett: Can I say something? Mr. Klein: Go ahead. Mrs. Plaskett: The only problem I have with it, if this is the case an, an, he can issue these foundation permits and then it's on to the developer where he takes a chance or not. The problem that I see happening, O.K., say for instance, he took out his foundation permit, he came back in, he came for site plan approval and we rejected it, and said I'm sorry, this isn't good, you gotta come back in, and that means his whole site plan could change. That means his foundation is poured, there's nothing he could do about it. He can come back on the City and sue us for allowing us to give him the permit to start with, because he has expended monies. That's the only problem I have with it. Mr. Mackie: That's a good problem. Mr. Klein: I can see a lawsuit. Mr. Mackie: That's a very good problem, because... Mrs. Plaskett: Not that Luis might do it, but I'm just trying to think of all the possibilities that would happen. . Everyone was talking at the same time. Conversation lost. Mrs. Plaskett: Like you just changed his driveway width, snap, just like that. O.K.? Mr. Mackie: If we partly O.K. his print, and he decides to make a change, and he already went ahead to do his, his footing, he's in trouble. Mrs. Plaskett: That's correct. Mr. Mackie: Ah, so I mean ah, as I said before the footing is part of the building. Mrs. Plaskett: Alright look, O.K., a prefect example, what if J.C. Carder or Luis Geil came in here and they already poured the foundation for the shopping center and we're talking about taking out part of the building to provide access around the side, this, this definiately a problem on my part. Planning and Zoning Board Regular Meeting Thursday, July 16, 1987 -11- o o Mr. Klein: That's right. Mr. Rossiter: Ah, The Southern standing Building code, basically used throughout the South east. Mrs. Plaskett: No, I understand that. Mr. Rossiter, So really ah, to except part of that and ah, except for paragraph so and so... Mrs. Plaskett: No, I'm not saying not excluded, but I think the city, by being more stringent by their rules, saying they shall not be issued and any permit shall not be issued until after site plan approval. Mr. Klein: That's what, our plan, that's what our... Mrs. Blazi: That's what my question would be... Mr. Klein: Why does a building, Southern Building Code, is that a state law? Mrs. Plaskett: It's general provisions... Mr. Rossiter: It's regional law... Everyone talking at the same time. Conversation lost. Mr. Klein: What I'm saying, gentlemen, quiet please, ladies and gentlemen, what I'm saying is that the Southern Building Code conflicts with our site plan approval. Now I understand that state law supercedes our City or County. Mrs. Plaskett: Only in the event that the City's not more stringent. Mr. Klein: O.K. We can be more stringent. Mrs. Plaskett: And that is more stringent, wouldn't you say? Mr. Klein: An this, this is more stringent? This is part of our City Ordinance. Mrs. Plaskett: Wouldn't you agree? Mr. Klein: But it's not a state law. It's something that has been adopted by the Southeast Building Codes Council. Mrs. Blazi: Ah, Mr. Klein? Mr. Klein: Now I, now wait. I, I would like to see, Lynne, that you get a copy of what he just read, because I still don't see, and send it to each one of the Board members immediately, where it says in there that if they don't have a site plan approval, that it can be issued. Mrs. Blazi: Why not make that into a motion, and we simply ask for the change ah, we can make it tougher. We can make it no authorization for oundation permits. Mrs. Plaskett: Right. Mrs. Blazi: Other than residence and duplexes, just like it says... Mr. Klein: That's what it says here... Mrs. Blazi: Alright, but we can put it in black and white as number whatever it is. Absolute. There is no authorization and that solves it right there. Mr. Quaggin: That's tougher than the Southern Building Code. Mrs. Blazi: And we can do it... Mr. Rossiter: We, we have the ability to change laws ,that as the people... Mr. Mackie: The state will never stop you from changing the laws, if it's better than theirs. Planning and Zoning Board Regular Meeting Thursday, July 16, 1987 -12- o o Mr. Rossiter: Change things that we see need adjustment... Mr. Mackie: Or if it's the same as theirs, they'll never stop ya... Mr. Quaggin: Connie? Connie you have the floor. Mrs. Martinez: What does the 71502, or whatever section that was, what does it say? No building permit shall be issued? Mrs. Blazi: Or no permit. Mrs. Martinez: Or no permit? Mr. Klein: Prior to the issuance of a building permit, the site plan must be approved subject to review by City Council... Mrs. Plaskett: The problem is...the interpretation of what a building permit is. Now he's saying... Mrs. Martinez: He did not issue a building permit, that's what he's saying. Mrs. Plaskett: But that's interpretation, that what he read in the book, said occupational permit... Mr. Klein: But it also says Connie, for any activity, Any Activity related to the development, building, clearing and subdividing or adding to a building or changing the use, and that certainly comes under the part of a building. Mrs. Martinez: Putting the foundation... Mrs. Plaskett: Exactly. Mr. Klein: Putting the found...you can't put the plan up if you don't have the foundation. Mrs. Plaskett: Or clearing. Mrs. Martinez: The language is currently there. Mrs. Blazi: Yes, it really is, we just need to ask the Building Official to abide by it. Mr. Loeffler: That's right. Mr. Klein: Well this gets back to where you know, we're not supposed to be policemen that we go out and look for everything to come back, but it seems to me, that there's constantly too many violations happening in this City. Mrs. Blazi: Well, it's been done in the past and we're still doing it, we need to have him stop doing it. Mr. Klein: Well then, we need to make a directive to whoever, and that's why r'm refer...r'm saying it ought to go to the City'Council, since their the chiefe ones here that they need to say Hey, it's time. that they put a stop to this stuff. Mrs. Blazi: Could this just be handled adminstratively? Mr. Klein: No. Mr. Mackie: Why can't we send a memo to the Building Official, also what Mr. Klein is talking about, to remind the Council what has happened ah, that he have to abide by the 71502 site plan approval. Mrs. Blazi: That's the way we interpret it anyway. Mr. Quaggin: Connie? Planning and Zoning Board Regular Meeting Thursday, July 16, 1987 -13- o o Mrs. Martinez: May I make a suggestion? That the Board send a letter, perhaps to administration requesting copies of what it is that Dennis has done, on a investigation, in such as what I'm saying, carbon copy, City Council for the, doesn't, all I'm saying is the thing needs to be put together in a packet before the Council can view or you folks can have an opportunity. Mr. Klein wants a copy of what Dennis just read. Lets put that all together in a package, if you wish to send it to me, I'll, and carbon copy the Council, we'll see that a directive comes from that and goes into Dennis' personnel file. Mr. Quaggin: Does that mean the Board... Mrs. Martinez: If, if required, but at an administrative level it, it is not something we need to discuss on the floor of the Council. They need to be aware, and I have no problem with that. Mrs. Plaskett: What she's saying is, give it to her for the actual, she's, I mean, I look at her as the boss over everybody and the Council's her boss and the right way to do it would be to take it to his supervisor first, which would be her. Let her know what the problem is and let, and cc the Council. Don't take it directly over her head without her having a chance to resolve it administratively, or however we have to do it, and going directly to Council. Is that what you're saying? Mrs. Martinez: That's, thank you. Mr . Quaggin: This meet with the Boards approval? Mr. Mackie: Well, they have to get some administra working on it... Mr. Loeffler: Have the roll call and find out. Mr. Quaggin: Roll Call. Ms. Kinney: Does somebody want to make a motion, or move to that affect? Mr. Loeffler: I move we, we accept the City Clerks suggestion. Mr. Mackie: I'll second. Roll Call: Motion Carried 6-0. Mr. Mackie: Will we have that by our next meeting? Mrs. Martinez: Or sooner. Mr. Mackie: That'll be fine Connie. Very good. END VERBATUM MINUTES. ANNEXATION: RZ-0287 Annexation/Rezoning Luis Ceil Lot 7 U.S 1 Roberts Road: Mr. Ceil was present to discuss the request. Mrs. Plaskett updated the Board stating this had originally come in as lots 3,4,5,6&7. At a previous Planning and Zoning meeting the Board had requested Mr. Ceil contact the abutting property owners to see if they would also annex. Mr. Carder's contract fell through on lots 3,4,5,&6, but he owns lot 7 and wishes to proceed with the annexation and rezoning request for that lot. Mrs. Plaskett informed the Board lots 2,3,4,5,&6 were coming to the Planning and Zoning Board next month for annexation and rezoning, to the best of her knowledge. There was discussion regarding the request and the possibility of an enclave being created in the future and the possibility of annexing lots 10 and N~ 11. Mr. Loeffler moved to table the request until more information was available concerning the upcoming requests, seconded by Mr. Mackie. Motion Carried 6-0. Planning and Zoning Board Regular Meeting Thursday, July 16, 1987 -14- o u Discussion Regarding Packet Information for Meetings: Mr. Mackie asked if this was about the date the packets are picked up. Mrs. Plaskett stated it was regarding a matter the Board had been discussing off and on for quite a few months. The Secretary added at different times Board members complain they get too much infor- mation and at other times feel they don't get enough. Mr. Mackie felt any infor- mation coming in regarding agenda items should be included in the packets. Mr.- Klein felt there was no such thing as getting to much information. Mrs. Blazi felt the Board should be able to remember to bring information tabled from a prior meeting when it is on the agenda again, so the Secretary does not have to keep making copies of the same things over and over again for the Board members. Mrs. Blazi stated she recalled getting a monthly status report about the Planning and Zoning Board, but did not receive one (1) this month. Mrs. Martinez stated it was a duplication of the minutes, only a shorter version. She added the Secretary had pointed this out to her and asked if it was really necessary to continue the monthly status report. Mrs. Martinez stated a copy of the-minutes is circulated to the Mayor, Council, Dep~rtment Heads, etc, and the only Board doing such a repprt was the'-Planning and Zoning Board. Mrs. Blazi said she would like to aee it' continued'if possible. Mr. Quaggin stated the census of the Board was the Secretary was-doing a good job. B-2 Permitted Uses (Neighborhood Business District): Mrs. Blazi felt there were uses in the B-2 that didn't belong such as bus terminals and convalescent homes. Mr. Mackie stated when he was chairman of the Board, the good businesses were put in B-3 and the rest were put into B-2 when B-1 was eliminated. B-1 was located at the intersection of Park Avenue and U.S. Highway #1. Mrs. Blazi felt the businesses listed could be condensed into more general catagores such as brokers, abstrating and lending agencies put under professional/ general offices. She also felt there may be some permitted uses that really don't belong in B-2. Mrs. Plaskett stated the Board needed to look at the district itself and the surrounding area to determine what belonged there and what needed to be moved to another district. Mrs. Blazi moved to have workshop regarding this issue, seconded by Mr. Mackie. Mr. Mackie asked about the comprehensive plan and if updating the ordinance would affect it. Mrs. Plaskett stated the Board had one year after submit~al of the comprehensive plan to update the zoning ordinances to comply with the' comprehensive plan. Mr. Mackie wanted to know if the Board would be receiving any information on the progress of the comprehensive plan. Mrs. Plaskett stated a Local Planning Agency had been formed to complete the comprehensive plan in an efficient and timely manner, which consisted of Department Heads. There were staff and consultants and others including the City Engineer and City Attorney also involved with the Local Planning Agency. Mrs. Plaskett stated the Planning Department had been working on the housing condition survey, and a final draft of the housing element should be ready around the begining of August. Mr. Chairman stated the Board was getting away from the business at hand. Mrs. Martinez felt there was no need to go through the expense of consolidating permitted uses if there were to be no other changes in the B-2 district. Mr. Quaggin asked for the roll call. Motion Carried 6-0. Mr. Klein asked the current status of the proposed meeting with the City Council, the Board of Adjustment and the Planning and Zoning Board regarding outdoor display. Mrs. Martinez stated a date was pending availability of the City Attorney. There being no further business to discuss Mr. Mackie moved to adjourn. The meeting was duly adjourned at approximately 11:40 A.M. Minutes respectfully submitted by: Beverly Kinney, Board Secretary Planning and Zoning Board Regular Meeting Thursday, July 16, 1987 -15- ~ . -FORM 'as MEMCRANDUM OF VOTIN~CONFLICT FOR COUNTY, MUNICIPAL AND OTHER LOCAL PUBLIC OFFICERS NAME OF BOARD. COUNCil. COMMISSION. AUTHORITY. OR COMMITTEE fiA N AhtJ G "'rtJi> 2'{) AJ , ,u G THE BOARD. COUNCil. COMMISSION. AUTHORITY. OR COMMITTEE ON WHICH I SERVE IS A UNIT OF: vfll Y : ! COUNTY I ~ OTHER 1.0CAL AGENCY MAILING ADDRESS fJ() 'Box 3~g CITY E COUNTY NAM : OF POLITICAL. SUBDIVISION: AlIA DATE ON WHICH vorE OCCURRED MY OSITION IS: iJ ELECTIVE y(' APPOINTIVE WHO MUST FILE FORM 81 This form is for use by any person serving at the county, city, or other local level of government on an appointed or elected board, council, commission, authority, or committee. It applies equally to members of advisory and non-advisory bodies who are presented with a voting conflict of interest under Section 112.3143, Florida Statutes. The requirements of this law are mandatory; although the use of this particular form is not required by law, you are encouraged to use it in making the disclosure required by law. Your responsibilities under the law when faced with a measure in which you have a conflict of interest will vary greatly depending on whether you hold an elective or appointive position. For this reason, please pay close attention to the instructions on this form before completing the reverse side and filing the form. INSTRUCTIONS FOR COMPLIANCE WITH SECTION 112.3143. FLORIDA STATUTES ELECTED OFFICERS: A person holding elective county, municipal, or other local public office MUST ABSTAIN from voting on a measure which inures to his special private gain. Each local officer also is prohibited from knowingly voting on a measure which inures to the special gain of a principal (other than a government agency) by whom he is retained. In either case, you should disclose the conflict: PRIOR TO THE VOTE BEING TAKEN by publicly stating to the assembly the nature of your interest in the measure on which you are abstaining from voting; and WITHIN 15 DAYS AFTER THE VOTE OCCURS by completing and filing this form with the person responsible for recording the minutes of the meeting, who should incorporate the form in the minutes. APPOINTED OFFICERS: A person holding appointive county, municipal, or other local public office MUST ABSTAIN from voting on a measure which inures to his special private gain. Each local officer also is prohibited from knowingly voting on a measure which inures to the special gain of a principal (other than a government agency) by whom he is retained. A person holding an appointive local office otherwise may participate in a mailer in which he has a conflict of interest, but must disclose the nature of the conflict before making any attempt to influence the decision by oral or written communication, whether made by the officer or at his direction. IF YOU INTEND TO MAKE ANY ATTEMPT TO INFLUENCE THE DECISION PRIOR TO THE MEETING AT WHICH THE VOTE WILL BE TAKEN: · You should complete and file this form (before making any attempt to influence the decision) with the person responsible for recording the minutes of the meeting, who will incorporate the form in the minutes. · A copy of the form should be provided immediately to the other members of the agency. · The form should be read publicly at the meeting prior to consideration of the matter in which you have a conflict of interest. ( (. I (It(\I ~Il IIl.Mt. PAGE I o o -J. ...... IF-YOU MAKE NO ATTEMPT TO INFLUENCE THE DECISION EXCEPT BY DISCUSSION AT THE MEETING: · You should disclose orally the nature of your connict in the measure before participating. · You should complete the form and file it within 15 days after the vote occurs with the person responsible for recording the minutes of the meeting, who should incorporate the form in the minutes. DISCLOSURE OF LOCAL OFFICER'S INTEREST I, J.tJn1 ,AM D. Ro.ss'-~ , hereby disclose that on 8() L '-I f ICe, ,19~: (a) A measure came or will come before my agency which (check one) /inured to my special private gain; or _ inured to the special gain of , by whom I am retained. (b) The measure before my agency and the nature of my interest in the measure is as follows: ..sIte flmJ ,.r87I1-( Stop-AG~ 13"/l-l>/^,~ .J (),ML ~ 1k~ ~7bMAl14~ V_/~1118'7 Date . ed w~~ Signature NOTICE: UNDER PROVISIONS OF FLORIDA STATUTES ~1I2.317 (1985), A FAILURE TO MAKE ANY REQUIRED DISCLOSURE CONSTITUTES GROUNDS FOR AND MA Y BE PUNISHED BY ONE OR MORE OF THE FOLLOWING: IMPEACHMENT, REMOVAL OR SUSPENSION FROM OFFICE OR EMPLOYMENT, DEMOTION, REDUCTION IN SALARY, REPRIMAND, OR A CIVIL PENALTY NOT TO EXCEED $5.000. CE FORM 88 . 10.86 PAGE 2