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11-10-1986 - Workshop/Special o o CITY OF EDGEWATER PLANNING AND ZONING BOARD AND BOARD OF ADJUSTMENT WORKSHOP/SPECIAL MEETING NOVEMBER 10, 1986, 7:00 P.M. COMMUNITY CENTER MINUTES Chairman Wheeler called to order a workshop/special meeting of the Planning and Zoning Board and the Board of Adjustment at 7:00 P.M., November 10, 1986, in the Community Center. ROLL CALL: Planning and Zoning Board Board of Adjustment Mr. Wheeler: Mr. Quaggin: Mr. Finn: Mr. Mackie: Mr. Loeffler: Mr. Klein: Mrs. Blazi: Present Present Absent Present Present Present Present Mr. Garthwaite: Mr. Moran: Mr. Newell: Mrs. Martin: Mrs. Murphy: Mr. Savini: Mr. Wolfe: Present Present Present Present Present Present Absent Also Present were Jan Morris and Beverly Kinney, Secretaries and Lynne Plaskett, Planning Assistant/Grant Administrator. There were four (4) persons in the aud- ience and one (1) member from the press present. WORKSHOP Mrs. Plaskett went over the information regarding outdoor display she had received from Ormond Beach, Holly Hill, Port Orange, New Smyrna Beach and the County. Ormond Beach and Holly Hill do not allow outdoor display, but Holly Hill allows outdoor storage. Port Orange allows outdoor display for items that are outside merchandise only. Landscaping merchandise must be fenced as approved on site plans. Storage is for new materials only and used items can not exceed eight (8) feet in height, car dealers are exempt. Port Orange allows temporary outdoor display for parking lot or sidewalk sales with commission approval and for special occasions such as Christmas tree sales. New Smyrna Beach was identical to Edgewater before it was recently changed. The County has no provisions for outdoor display. They enforce it by not allowing anything in the required setbacks using the defin- ition of structure. Persons would have to apply for a variance to display. The County does not allow outside sale of merchandise. The County only enforces this if they receive a complaint. Mrs. Plaskett informed both Boards that she had gotten together with the Building Official and the Code Enforcement Officer and came up with the following recommend- ations: 1. Have outside display for outside merchandise only. 2. Height limit of six (6) feet for any equipment kept outdoors. 3. No outside display be allowed in the required yard or setback areas. 4. All storage must be fenced. 5. Eliminate special exceptions and make it a permitted use in the proper zoning districts with a provision for the intent to be included in the ordinance. 6. No existing business would be exempt from this ordinance. Chairman Wheeler turned the floor over to Chairman Garthwaite. Chairman Garthwaite asked if there was consideration for Edgewater Rentall as far as the six (6) foot height limit on equipment kept outdoors. Mrs. Plaskett stated Edgewater Rentall was being taken into consideration and it was talked about at great length. One reason Mr. Fischer, Mr. DiLeva and myself decided on six (6) feet was because for storage purposes our ordinance only allows us to have a six (6) foot high fence. If you're trying to hide merchandise from the public's view and the merchandise is higher than six (6) feet, it is not going to do any good, because the public is still going to see it. The reason other cities have an eight (8) foot limit is because they have eight (8) foot fences. Chairman Garthwaite stated he didn't think any of the Board members wanted to see a bunch of junk yards up and down the highway. Mrs. Plaskett informed the Boards that by making this ordinance they must consider the City as a whole. -1- o o Chairman Garthwaite stated that the Boards should come up with something the Code Enforcement Officer will be able to work with. Mrs. Murphy asked about the current ordinance, because it doesn't state whether the fence is to be opague or wire. She felt the main purpose of the ordinance was for viewing purposes. Mrs. Plaskett informed her that the ordinance doesn't state the type of fence so the Board of Adjustment can use their discretion depending on the type of business and what is to be stored. Mrs. Plaskett stated that basically what the Boards were trying to work on was outdoor display, but since Mrs. Murphy had brought up storage the Boards should probably address that too, since both items are in the same ordinance. Chairman Garthwaite stated the Boards should discuss storage first. Mrs. Murphy stated it would be a better idea to have outdoor storage only for items that are kept outdoors instead of tables and chairs. Mrs. Murphy went on to say that when we start taking this on an individual nature we are faced with discrimination. Mrs. Plaskett stated that a lot of people have a small business and they have a small building, but they have an overabundance of items. It doesn't have to be out- side merchandise, they can't keep it in their building, and they store it outside in the back and put a fence around it. Mrs. Martin said this state has a large amount of tourists and the highway is beginning to look like a flea market and it can't be controlled. Mrs. Plaskett stated it is a very discriminating issue, because you are saying one person can have outdoor display and the next person can't, and that's the reason most cities do not allow outdoor display. The only thing we could come up with is to allow outdoor display for items that are kept outdoors. There was some discussion between the Planning and Zoning Board and the Board of Adjustment about special exceptions for outdoor display that have recently been granted by the Board of Adjustment after the Planning and Zoning Board had recommended denial until an ordinance had been adopted regarding the matter. The Board of Adjust- ment felt that since outdoor display had been going on for over a year they didn't want to ruin a person's business by denying the request for a special exception. The Board of Adjustment reminded the Planning and Zoning Board that the granting of these recent special exceptions were only good for a period of six (6) months or until an ordinance had been adopted. The Planning and Zoning Board felt is was a matter of whether the Board Of Adjustment wanted the City of Edgewater cleaned up or not. Chairman Garthwaite reminded both Boards they were there for the betterment of the City of Edgewater. Mrs. Blazi felt that whatever type of ordinance is adopted, there are going to be some businesses hurt. Mrs. Blazi also felt that there has to be a line drawn, and you can't pick and choose, but the overall benefit for the city is more important. Mrs. Blazi said it might be better not to allow outdoor display at all. Mr. Loeffler added that there could be special occasions such as sidewalk sales, etc., where the business person could get a special permit. Mr. Klein felt that the city just needed something that was enforceable. Mr. Quaggin felt that Port Orange's ordinance was good, but would like to see no outside display be allowed in the required yard or setback areas. Mrs. Plaskett informed the Boards that when she saw the current ordinance we have for outdoor display and storage she tried to have it pulled off the Council Agenda for final reading, because she knew the workshop/special meeting was coming up and the ordinance would be changed again, but it was too late. After it was finally approved and Mrs. Plaskett got a copy of it she noted there is wording that is in the original that was never put back into the new ordinance. As it reads right now, it is basically just for storage. It means anything that anyone has outside has to have a fence around it, and that's not outside display. Mrs. Martin suggested keeping the current ordinance, but rewording it to say "Outdoor display or sale of outdoor merchandise...", so that only items that are used outdoors can be used for outdoor display. Mr. Klein stated that it would also have to say NO outside display of other items is permitted. -2- Planning and Zoning Board Board of Adjustment Workshop/Special Meeting Minutes November 10, 1986 .' . o o Mrs. Murphy said she would like to see the ordinance have some kind of setback requirements, because there are displays that go practically right to the street, and they are dangerous. Mr. Mackie suggested not making this a special exception anymore and making the current ordinance stronger, and make it a permitted use. Mrs. Martin said the current ordinance also says outdoor display or sale of equipment and that it should be changed to outdoor equipment to eliminate chairs, etc. Chairman Garthwaite stated they need something strong enough to be enforced and something that five (5) years from now everyone will know the intent of the ord- inance. Mrs. Blazi stated the outdoor displays are also a traffic hazard. Chairman Garthwaite made a motion to close the workshop. Mrs. Blazi seconded the motion. The Workshop adjourned at approximately 7:50 P.M. SPECIAL MEETING Chairman Wheeler called to order a special meeting of the Planning and Zoning Board and the Board of Adjustment at approximately 7:55 P.M. ROLL CALL: Planning and Zoning Board Board of Adjustment Mr. Wheeler: Mrs. Quaggin: Mr. Finn: Mr. Mackie: Mr. Loeffler: Mr. Klein: Mrs. Blazi: Present Present Absent Present Present Present Present Mr. Garthwaite: Mr. Moran: Mr. Newell: Mrs. Martin: Mrs. Murphy: Mr. Savini: Mr. Wolfe: Present Present Present Present Present Present Absent Also present were Jan Morris and Beverly Kinney, Secretaries and Lynne Plaskett, Planning Assistant/Grant Administrator. There were four (4) persons in the aud- ience and one (1) member from the press present. Chairman Wheeler opened the floor to the audience to address the Boards with their comments. Robert Poulin, Little Red Furniture House: 928 South Ridgewood Avenue: Mr. Poulin agreed that something needed to be done with the Flea Markets, but the people with a decent looking display are going to suffer. Mr. Poulin stated he was running a used furniture business, not a junk shop. He felt that if the Boards eliminated outdoor display altogether they would not only hurt his business, but a lot of other small business. Mr. Poulin stated he did not specialize in out- door patio furniture, because it takes up a lot of space and it's a storage problem. Mrs. Blazi asked Mr. Poulin if he felt the junk shops hurt his business. He felt that to a certain extent they did, but after people went in and saw what the junk shops had and then went into his store there was no comparison. Mrs. Blazi stated that for the overall welfare of U.S. 1 and all the business on U.S. 1 and the people in the City, some kind of line has to be drawn or it's going to end up like the used car lots, junk shops and soforth. Mrs. Blazi told Mr. Poulin that if the junk shops can't have outdoor display and he can that would be discriminatory. Mrs. Plaskett told Mr. Poulin he would have some advantage over some of the other business by displaying outside patio furniture, because some of the other businesses don't carry anything that goes outside. Mr. Poulin stated that he also displayed rocking chairs, bar stools and things of that nature. Mrs. Blazi stated that the man down the road can also display the same things, but they can be junk. Mr. Poulin stated he thought eight (8) to ten (10) items would be a good number of items to display outside. Mrs. Plaskett asked if it mattered what the items were. -3- ~lanUing fUd Zoning Board oa a or a ust e L . g~i~g~~/ B~1~9I6Aeetlng ~ o o Mr. Poulin responded by saying no, because he only featured eight (8) to ten (10) items. Mrs. Plaskett stated the Boards had to consider the City overall, not just Mr. Poulin's business. Mrs. Plaskett also stated that the other guy could be display- ing refrigerators, stoves, and clothing, items that should not be displayed outdoors. Chairman Wheeler asked if there was anyone else who wanted to address the Boards. Kathleen Poulin, Little Red Furniture House: 928 South Ridgewood Avenue Mrs. Poulin agreed that some of the outdoor displays are eyesores. She felt that perhaps the guidlines could be written in such a way where the articles that are displayed have to be in good condition and maybe three (3) to five (5) items. Mrs. Poulin said she would rather do that than not have any outdoor display at all. Mrs. Poulin stated that the way she understood it the Board members all seemed to be agreeing that the ordinance would allow nothing but outdoor articles and that would just close the door on her business. Mrs. Poulin also stated that many of her customers say the reason they stop is because they see a desk or a certain rocking chair outside. That draws the business for us'. Mrs. Poulin said that she didn't think she should be penalized for someone elses irresponsibility, and she felt the Board members should come up with an ordinance everyone could work within the boundaries of. There were no other members of the audience who wished to address the Board members. Mrs. Blazi felt that once a person is in business for a while and they advertise, people know you're there and start patronizing a business. Mr. Mackie agreed and stated that word of mouth was the best advertising. Mrs. Plaskett suggested limiting the numbers of items and limiting the items for outdoor display not to include things such as bedding, appliances and clothing. Mrs. Murphy suggested having outdoor display in the rquired setback areas only and then later decide what they would allow to be displayed. By limiting the area the outdoor display is allowed would also limit the size and number of items that would be displayed. Mrs. Blazi stated that if there was no display there would be no problems as far as the ordinance is concerned and enforcing it. Mr. Klein stated that a business in a shopping center does not have anything more than a sign, in fact most of the businesses on U.S. 1 only have a sign. Mr. Klein went on to say that if everyone in Edgewater had the same quality display as the Poulin's it would be nice, but we don't. Mr. Klein stated he didn't want to penalize the Poulin's. Mrs. Plaskett stated that the City as a whole is being penalized by the few that are taking blatant advantage of our ordinance. Chairman Wheeler recognized Mrs. Poulin so she could address the Board members. She stated that there are two obvious offenders right now in Edgewater. If they were only allowed to put out two (2) or three (3) items wouldn't that help beautify U.S. 1. If everyone was allowed two (2) or three (3) articles we wouldn't be penalized for their going overboard. Mr. Klein stated that the Board members needed to decide what they wanted and to write an ordinance. Either they want no outside display or they want a limited number of items. Chairman Garthwaite asked his Board members how they felt. Four (4) Board members favored no outdoor display and two (2) Board members favored limited outdoor display. Chairman Wheeler asked his Board members how they felt. Five (5) Board members favored no outdoor display and one (1) Board member favored no outdoor display but allowing exceptions for display. Mr. Klein made a motion that an ordinance be written where there be no outside displays and no existing businesses are exempt. Mr. Mackie seconded the motion. Motion carried 10-2 with Mr. Newell and Mrs. Murphy voting no. Mrs. Plaskett informed the Board memebers they need to include the intent in the ordinance so that in the future there is no question as to why the ordinance was written. Mrs. Blazi made a motion stating the intent of the Planning and Zoning Board and the Board of Adjustment is for reasons of esthetics, public safety, health and welfare of the city, and in the interest of non-discrimination against any bus- iness. Motion was seconded by Mrs. Martin. Motion carried 11-1 with Mrs. Murphy voting no. There being no further business, Mr. Mackie seconded the motion. The meeting adjourned -4- made a motion to adjourn, Mrs. Blazi at approximately 8:35 P.M. ~lanUing fUd Zoning Board oa d or dust e L . g~~gg~F/ B~ct9Z6Aeetlng