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10-02-1986 - Special/Workshop u (.) CITY OF EDGEWATER PLANNING AND ZONING BOARD SPECIAL MEETING/WORKSHOP OCTOBER 2, 1986, 9:00 A.M. COMMUNITY CENTER Chairman Wheeler called to order a special meeting/workshop of the Planning and Zoning Board at 9:00 A.M., October 2, 1986, in the Community Center. ROLL CALL: Members present were Mr. Wheeler, Mr. Quaggin, Mr. Mackie and Mr. Loeffler. Also present were Jan Morris and Beverly Kinney, Secretaries and Lynne Plaskett, Planning Assistant. Members Mrs. Blazi and Mr. Finn were excused. Mr. Klein arrived and joined the meeting at 9:05 A.M. SITE PLAN REVIEW: SP 8617 FRANK HALL LIGHT INDUSTRIAL COMPLEX Mr. Earl Wallace was present to discuss this site plan. Chairman Wheeler went through the Department Head checklist and found that the only approval lacking was from the City Engineer. Mr. Mackie asked Mr. Wallace if he had read the comments from the City Engineer. Mr. Wallace informed the Board that his engineer, Al Davis, was working with Mr. Ferrara, the City Engineer. Al Davis feels he is in compliance, but Mr. Ferrara feels differently. Mr. Wallace also stated he was in the process of getting St. Johns Water Management permits taken care of. All the other problems have been taken care of., The Chairman stated there was nothing the Board could do regarding this site plan until the engineering section was straightened out. Mr. Wallace asked that the Board approve the site plan contingent upon approval of the City Engineer. rlrs. Plaskett informed the Board that the percolation problems is an important item. Apparently the retention areas they are showing are not large enough to accommodate the run off. That will have to be redone and the retention area will have to be evaluated after the grades are shown. If they don't have enough water rentention area, they may have to change the whole site plan, unless they go to an underground perc- . alation system, catch basins and things of that nature. Mr. Wallace stated that is where Al Davis and Jerry Ferrara differ in opinion. Mrs. Plaskett informed the Board that because of the amount of parking available, the types of businesses going in will be determined by the number of spaces required for that business. Mrs. Plaskett also stated that since the Planning Department is handling occupational licenses, we are keeping track of the types of businesses going in. We know how many parking spaces are allocated for each unit, and if someone wants to come in to rent a unit and they are required more parking than is allocated on the site plan the Planning Department will have to refuse their request for an occupational license. Mr. Quaggin made a motion to table this site plan untilr.all the information comes back from the City Engineer, because the site plan may have to be redone. Mr. Mackie amended the motion to include written approval from the City Engineer.before the Board approves the site plan. Mr. Mackie seconded the amended motion. Motion Carried 5-0. SP 8618 KEN WINTERS CONVENIENCE STORE WITH GAS PUMPS Mr. Earl Wallace was present to discuss this site plan. All Department Heads and the City Engineer approved this site plan. Mr. Mackie asked about the new sign off sheet for the Department Heads. Mrs. Plaskett informed the Board the original signatures were on the two sets of signed and sealed site plans in the Planning Department. The Board asked that the Department Heads also sign the sign off sheet that goes to the Planning and Zoning Board members. Mrs. Plaskett informed the Board that all the cooking equipment have been taken off the site plan. They will be allowed to use heating units only. The canopy was removed and the tanks are now shown on the site plan. They do have enough parking for a con- venience store. -l- o Q Mrs. Plaskett informed the Board that the building permit can not be pulled until a copy of the St. Johns Water Management permit has been given to the Planning Department and the Building Department. Mr. Mackie made a motion to approve this site plan pending approval of St. Johns Water Management permit. Mr. Klein amended the motion making a stipulation that cooking facilites will not be added at a later date. The Board agreed with the amended motion. Motion was seconded by Mr. Loeffler. Motion Carried 5-0. SP 8619 RAY RICHARDS PUMP HOUSE WITH GAS PUMPS Mr. Earl Wallace was present to discuss this site plan. Chairman Wheeler read to the Board the comments from the City Engineer. All Department Heads approved this site plan, but there were problems according to the City Engineer. According to Mr. Wallace the Pump house is no longer a temporary structure, it is now a permanent structure. Mr. Mackie asked about the parking. Mr. Wallace stated that in the future the owner will want to "max out" by building on the area that is now shown as sod area on the site plan. The parking can be used now for the convenience store, and later for any future buildings. Mr. Wallace informed the Board that a business can have parking as far as two hundred (200) feet away from their business. Mr. Klein asked about the pipe barricade used to divide the two lots. He felt that the barricade was sitting'back too far fi-om the roadway. Mr. Klein felt there should not be a thruway from the convenience store to the gas pumps, because it would cause a terrible traffic situation. Mrs. Plaskett stated the pipe barricade could only go about another fifteen (15) feet because the trash t~ucks and other vehicles need the room to maneuver around. Mrs. Plaskett suggested no parking-si~ns in the alleyway that divides the convenience store from the gas pumps to cut down on some of the problem. Mr. Loeffler felt that the owner should pay to have the alley paved since there will be traffic on it even though they aren't supposed to. Mr. Mackie stated that it is a city alley and the owner is not responsible for it. Mr. Loeffler felt there should be a larger building on the lot and that seven by seven (7 x 7) was too small. Mr. Loeffler was informed that there is no minimun requirement size for structures in the B-2 district. Mr. Mackie made a motion to approve this site plan pending St. Johns Water Management permit and written approval from the City Engineer. Mr. Loeffler wanted the Board to set a m~n~mum size for the building. He was told again there is nothing in the code book regarding minimum sizes for structures in the B-2 district. Mr. Klein stated that since he was Chairman of the Florida Shores Action Committee and they had been involved in the special exception regarding gas pumps in the B-2 district he felt he might have a conflict of interest and was not sure if he should be allowed to vote on this site plan. Mr. Klein was informed by the Board and sec- retaries that since he would have no financial gain and this was not a special exc- eption, but a site plan approval for location of gas pumps as a permitted use he did not have to abstain from voting. The motion was read back to the Board by the secretary. Mr. Klein seconded the motion. Mr. Loeffler was given permission to speak at this time by Chairman Wheeler. Mr. Loeffler was still agains the size of the structure. Mr. Loeffler was told once again there was no m~n~mum size required for structures in the B-2 district and the Board could not place such a requirement on this site plan until there was an ordinance to that effect. Motion Carried 4-0. Mr. Loeffler voted no. There being no further business to corne before the Board, Mr. Klein made a motion to adjourn the special meeting. Mr. Mackie seconded the motion. The_special meeting adjourned at 9:50 A.M. -2- Planning and Zoning Board Special Meeting Minutes October 2, 1986 ~~ Q o WORKSHOP: Chairman Wheeler called to order a workshop of the Planning and Zoning Board at 9:50 A.M., October 2, 1986, in the Community Center. ROLL CALL: Members present were Mr. Wheeler, Mr. Quaggin, Mr. Mackie, Mr. Loeffler and Mr. Klein. Also present were Jan Morris and Beverly Kinney, Secretaries and Mrs. Lynne Plaskett, Planning Assistant. Mr. Martie Berge, representative for the Radnor Corporation and Mr. Doug Stewart, Land Planner were invited to the workshop to help answer questions regarding the MH-2 district. MH-2 DISTRICT Mrs. Plaskett introduced Martie Berge and Doug Stewart to the Board. Mrs. Plaskett informed the Board that the purpose of the workshop was to discuss implementing some- thing in the ordinance regarding the MH-2 district, since all we currently have is a lot size. Mrs. Plaskett informed the Board that a local real estate person had provided a copy of Bear Creek's site plan to give the Board an idea on lot sizes and layout of such subdivisions. Mrs. Plaskett reminded the Board that even though Radnor Corporation was helping to gather the necessary information for the Board to make their decision, the Board had to implement an ordinance designed for anyone coming into the City. Mrs. Plaskett informed the board that since Mrs. Blazi could not be at this workshop she came to the Planning Department and dictated a letter to one of the secretaries to type up. Mrs. Blazi signed the letter after approving it. The letter is included in your packets for your information. Mr. Klein was under the impression that the Radnor Corporation was involved in a mobile home park in Ocala. Mrs. Plaskett informed Mr. Klein that Mr. Berge was involved with that park and that he will be working with the Radnor Corporation on this MH-2 project. Mrs. Plaskett informed the Board that the Flood Insurance Program done by the Federal Government has sent all Cities a memo saying that they must change their ordinance to read manufactured homes subdivisions and include mobile homes in the definition of manufactured homes. This will also include trailors, etc. Mr. Mackie asked Mr. Berge about the actual square footage of the average manufactured home. Mr. Berge informed the Board that the average manufactured home is approximately six hundred fifty (650) feet. The minimum for the Radnor Corporation will be approx- imately eight hundred (800) feet and will go up as much as eighteen hundred (1,800) feet. Their homes will include a utility building, a carport and a screen porch, which will increase the actual square footage of building, but it would fit on a fifty by ninety (50 x 90) foot lot. Mr. Wheeler suggested a sixtyfive by one hundred (65 x 100) foot lot and Mrs. Blazi, through her letter to the Board, suggested a sixtyfive by ninetyfive (65 x 95) foot lot. Mr. Berge stated the one major complaint people have about manufactured home sub- divisions is that they look very sterile. The homes are all lined up in neat rows like soldiers. What the Radnor Corporation wants to do is have a manufactured home park that would allow flexability in placing homes on lots to give a more varied look to the community so there won't be a sterile look. Chairman Wheeler gave permission to Mr. Stewart to take the floor for his presen- tation. Mr. Stewart stated that as far as he was concerned the Radnor Corporation was probably one of the best developers in the country today. They are very pro- gressive with their thinking and have let me do some innovative things in trying to look towards the future. Mr. Stewart stated he had the opportunity to look at such projects allover the country in dealing with various clients. Zoning has come under a lot of criticism recently, because it tends to be very stringent at times resulting, sometimes, in very sterile developments. Often times what you end up with is straight streets, grid patterns and no varied setbacks. The thinking over the last couple of years has been to try a different approach to zoning which allows better communication between the city staff and the developer, but still provide enough controls with the city so that a bad developer won't come in and abuse the system. We are trying to use the site, the wet lands and drainage controls we have to deal with, and use the sites amenities, the vast number of very large trees, the overall character and the views it has over the water. We are trying to use the constraints and amenities as opportunities for putting together a very nice project, to put very stringent set -3- Planning and Zoning Board October 2, 1986 ~ o o back and lot size regulations may take away from the project. What we would like to do is work out an ordinance that would allow for more flexabiltiy by having some larger lots and some smaller lots. We want the ability to turn out lots instead of being perpendicular to the roadway, we may find that at times we may want to put a unit in parallel to the road. Mayb~ there should be a maximum d~nsity for the tracts. so everyone knows there can be no more than "x" number of dwelling units on the tract. Mr. Stewart asked that the Board establish a lot width that would be different at the cartway than at the front yard set back, so that along curves of the road we could have a wedge shaped lot. In our design we would like to have curved roads and cul- de-sacs. We need something that provides the controls with the city, but allows us the flexability to move the units on the lots. Mr. Stewart suggested that the Board think about the financial wherewithall of future developers to put together a substantial well designed development. Mr. Stewart sug- gested that the Board consider the tract of land be similarly substantial so that some- one coming in would have to be able to take down a larger piece of ground and be able to come up with the cash and all the up front costs to develop a large develop- ment.Fifty (50) to one hundred (100) acres may be appropriate. It would help pre- qualify the developer. As far as lot size, Mr. Stewart suggested a sliding scale of lot sizes, perhaps fifty- five (55) square feet. Chairman Wheeler felt that was too small. Mr. Stewart went on to say that it was fairly standard in some of the higher quality developments. The average distance between units is standard at fifteen (15) feet. We suggest just dividing that in half per lot, so there would be a seven (7) foot six (6) inch side yard set back for each lot. As far as front yard set backs, we suggest fifteen (15) feet, with a second fifteen (15) foot setback to the cartway. We are planning on using private roads, but we know with a twenty (20) foot cartway, we are still probably going to need up to fifteen (15) feet more to provide for the drainage we will need. Mr. Klein informed the Board they were not in any hurry, because the moratorium' was extended until December 31, 1986, and may be extended even longer. Mr. Klein stated the Board was told that if they didn't do this in July that there was only a few months period then this would be dropped. The moratorium now has been extended. So do you plan on continuing or dropping it? Mr. Berge responded to Mr. Klein's ques- tion, stating they were looking for a waiver on the moratorium. Mr. Klein stated that the indication was that the County Council would give no waivers. Mr. Berge had no comment. Mr. Klein stated the Board was lead to believe that this had to be pushed through, or the whole thing would be dropped. Mrs. Plaskett informed the Board that the Radnor Corporation could come in right now with the ordinance we now have. Mr. Klein said they couldn't with the moratorium exterided, with the indication that there will be a possible extension regarding the building between Edgewater and Oak Hill. The Board asked Mrs. Plaskett exactly what she meant. She explained to the Board that in the event Radnor Corporation wants to come in before you get ready to change the ordinance, all they have to do is go by what we have now, because that's all we have in affect. The Board agreed and understood what Mrs. Plaskett had said. Mrs. Plaskett went on to say that if the Board wanted to do something, then they should get it done now. Mr. Loeffler suggested a mlnlmum of twenty five (25) acres for an MH-2 development. The lot sizes, as far as Mr. Loeffler is concerned, only need to be done by square footage, not 'length or width. A good example would be six thousand (6,000) square feet. Side set backs should be a minimum of eight (8) feet. The front set back should be twenty-five (25) feet and the rear ought to be twenty (20) feet. There could be a minimum floor area of seven hundred fifty (750) feet and you could have a lot coverage of thirtyfive (35) or forty (40) percent. The Board agreed, that was a good start. Mr. Berge stated that usually on a cul-de-sac there is no specific front footage, they specify a building line footage. Then you can get a pie shaped lot in, but it has to be a certain width at the building line. Mr. Berge stated that Mr. Loeffler's suggestion of a twenty (20) foot rear yard set back was a bit much, and the best way and average rear yard set back is ten (10) feet. Mr. Berge elaborated by saying a twenty (20) foot rear yard set back will waste a lot of space, because there wilL have to be forty (40) feet between the backs of the buildings. Mr. Berge felt a more shallow and wider lot would give much more versatility in design. . -4- Planning and Zoning Board October 2, 1986 o o Mr. Stewart suggested another idea to come up with a creative layout. He suggested something that would allow for lots that might back up to a common open space, like a pond. In those cases, it would be helpful to reduce the rear yard depth. Mr. Loe- ffler had suggested twenty (20) feet, but ten (10) feet might be better, so that the unit can be closer to the open space. The building would be set back ten (10) feet from the property line, not the pond itself. Visually it would not be impacted, be- cause it would be overlooking a common area and the unit behind it would be across the pond. The Board agreed they had a good beginning with this workshop. Chairman Wheeler asked Mr. Berge who would take care of the streets after all the lots are sold since they will be private roads and not publicly dedicated. Mr. Berge stated the resident's association would be responsible for maintenance of the whole community, because the resident's themselves would own the community. It is strongly recommended to the resident's that they hire professionals to take care of the comm- unity, when the community is turned over to the resident's. At this point a new tape was put into the recorder, but did not record the conversation that followed. The workshop was duly adjourned at approximately 11:15 A.M. Minutes respectfully submitted by: Beverly Kinney Planning and Zoning Board Special Meeting/Workshop Minutes October 2, 1986