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09-18-1986 , u o ~ CITY OF EDGEWATER PLANNING AND ZONING BOARD REGULAR MEETING SEPTEMBER 18, 1986, 9:00 A.M. COMMUNITY CENTER Mr. Mackie called to order a regular meeting of the Planning and Zoning Board at 9:00 A.M., September 18, 1986, in the Community Center. ROLL CALL: Members present were Mr. Finn, Mr. Mackie, Mr. Loeffler, Mr. Klein and Mrs. Blazi. Also present were Jan Morris and Beverly Kinney, Secre- taries and Mrs. Lynne Plaskett, Planning Assistant. Approximately one hundred (100) residents of Florida Shores were present with a petition regarding section 713.07. The Board allowed a represen- tative from the group to sit in on the meeting. The audience was informed they would have the opportunity to speak when the item they were at the meeting for came up on the agenda. The audience was asked to be quiet so the Board could conduct other business. APPROVAL OF MINUTES: The minutes of July 17, Blazi made a motion not they were not complete. the minutes. Mr. Klein 1986, were presented for approval. Mrs. to accept the minutes as written, because She also asked that the secretary redo seconded the motion. Motion Carried 5-0. The minutes of August 21, 1986, were presented for approval. Mr. Mackie stated that there were not enough Board members present from that meeting to vote on the minutes and the minutes of August 21, 1986, were tabled. SITE PLAN REVIEW: SP 8617 FRANK HALL LIGHT INDUSTRIAL COMPLEX Mr. Earl Wallace was present to discuss this site plan. Mr. Klein stated he thought there was too much missing from this site plan. Mr. Wallace presented an updated site plan to the Board members. Mr. Wallace stated that the updated site plan addressed the Depart- ment Head comments as well as the City Engineer comments. Mr. Wall- ace added that he felt the requirement to have St. Johns Water Manag- ement Permits prior to site plan approval would hold up his project. Mrs. Plaskett informed Mr. Wallace that the City did not make the re- quirement, the State did, but site plans could be approved contingent upon receiving St. Johns Water Management permits. The meeting was temporarily disrupted by the audience because they could not hear what was going on. Mr. Mackie informed the group this was a regular meeting not a public hearing and the Board would move to the microphones and the audience would be allowed to participate when their turn came up on the agenda. Mrs. Plaskett asked if the site plan was signed and sealed by an architect registered in the State of Florida and if the calcula- tions had been signed and sealed by a registered engineer. Mr. Wall- ace stated they had both been signed and sealed by a registered eng- ineer, not an architect. Mrs. Plaskett reminded Mr. Wallace that the City of Edgewater requires site plans to be signed and sealed by an architect registered in the State of Florida. Mr. Wallace asked the Board to table this site plan if it would make the Board feel more comfortable, so he could make the required corr- ections and bring it before the Board again at a later date. Mr. Klein made a motion to table this site plan until all the information was received. Mr. Finn seconded the motion. Motion Carried 5-0. -1- Planning and Zoning Board September 18, 1986 o o Mr. Wallace asked Mrs. Plaskett about the St. Johns Water Management permits. She told Mr. Wallace that site plans would be approved pend- ing the permit and that a building permit could not be pulled without the permit. Mr. Wallace was concerned that requiring the permit before the building permit could be pulled could hold a project up for a long time. Mrs. Plaskett reiterated that it was a State requirement, not the City's. Mr. Klein made a motion not to accept site plans in the future unless all comments form the various Department Heads have been addressed by the authorized agent and a revised site plan has been accepted by the Department Heads. Motion seconded by Mr. Loeffler. Motion Carried 5-0. The Board agreed to move old business up and get the people in the audience taken care of because of the noise they were making. The Board members moved to the microphones. OLD BUSINESS: DONNIE WILLIAMS APPLICATION FOR SPECIAL EXCEPTION FOR GAS PUMPS IN THE B-2 DISTRICT. Mr. Bob Trumbo was present to represent Mr. Donnie Williams. Mr. Trumbo is an attorney in the area. Mr. Trumbo stated that this had previously been tabled until the Board could get a legal opinion from the City Attorney regarding section 713 of the code, because a con- venience store that sells gasoline was not included within the def- inition of a service station under section 713. Mr. Trumbo stated that if the seven hundred fifty (750) feet was arbitrary, then under all legal rules it can't be constitutionally valid. A letter from the City Attorney was read into the record regarding section 713. The City Attorney felt the Board could construe the word "shall" to mean I'may" , if the circumstances required. From what the Assistant Planner and Mr. Trumbo had been able to determine, the seven hundred fifty (750) feet was strictly for asthetics. Mr. Trumbo was asking the Board to permit Donnie Williams to pro- ceed and go the the Board of Adjustments. According to the City Attorney, it would be up to the Board of Adjustments to determine whether any of the requirements of 713 should be waived or not. The floor was opened for comments from the audience at this time. Ed Gardner of Mango Tree Drive: Mr. Gardner represents the Florida Shores property owners, and as of September 17, 1986, a petition was circulated against 7-11 stores with gas pumps at the corner of Fern Palm Drive and Indian River Boulevard. In twenty-four (24) hours, a total of approximately three hundred twenty (320) signatures were gathered on the petition. Mr. Gardner presented the petition to the Board. Mr. Mackie accepted it and had it entered into the record. Mrs. Plaskett informed the group that convenience stores in the B-2 district are allowed without going for a special exception. The special exception is for the gas pumps only. 7-11 can put a conven- ience store in and there is nothing that can be done about it. Mrs. Plaskett told the group that the seven hundred fifty (750) foot requirement is for asthetics, because this is a neighborhood. There is only seven hundred (700) feet of B-2 zoning on Indian River Boule- vard, so it would be impossible for more than one business with gas pumps to go in. Mr. Klein read a letter from Mr. Don Bennington to the Chairman of the Planning and Zoning Board in reference to the special exception for gas pumps. This was read into the record. It was Mr. Bennington's understanding that when the special exception for gas pumps was added to the B-2 zoning district, the Planning and Zoning Board specified that all requirements of section 713 were to be met. Mr. C. E. Clark of Evergreen Drive: Mr. Clark felt it would add to the traffic problem. He also felt that with the convenience store September 18, 1986 -2- Planning and Zoning Board Minutes Q o already there and Florida Shores Plaza, there was no need for another convenience store. Mr. Clark added that another convenience store would be a hangout for vagrants and unwanted people that can cause trouble in the neighborhood and create an atmosppere that is not needed in the neighborhood. Mrs. Blazi felt the audience that showed up at the meeting and their petition spoke very well for the interest that they have in what's going on with their neighborhood. Mrs. Blazi made a motion that the Board send their recommendation to the Board of Adjustments not to allow gas pumps in this particular case. Mrs. Blazi added that there will be a traffic and safety problem and Indi~n River Boulevarq is not u.S. 1. Mr. Klein seconded the motion with an amendment that the Board of Adjustments not construe the word "shall" to mean "may", be- cause in his opinion, it would be illegal with the ordinance as it now reads. The amended Motion Carried 5-0. Mary Morgan of Mango Tree Drive came to the microphone to thank the Planning and Zoning Board for their recommendation. Mr. Fred Graft of Travelers Palm Drive: Mr. Graft felt that by allow- ing the convenience store even without gas pumps would still cause problems with traffic and security. He asked the Board what difference it would make if there were gas pumps. Mr. Mackie informed him that no one could stop a convenience store from going in, but there would still be less traffic without gas pumps. Mr. Graft asked if they are not allowed to have gas pumps would they still put the convenience store in. Attorney Trumbo was asked to answer the question. Mr. Trumbo could not answer that question, nor could he_say what action 7-11 would take because of the Boards recommendation. Mr. Mackie informed the audience that the next step was for the Board's recommendation to go before the Board of Adjustments. If 7-11 wants to go ahead with a convenience store without gas pumps they will have to submit their site plans to the Planning and Zoning Board at a later date. Mr. Klein thanked the audience for being there and informed them that the Board of Adjustments would receive the Planning and Zoning Board's recommendation for their October 9, 1986, 7:00 P.M. meeting. Mr. Klein questioned the authenticity of the letter from the City Attorney read into record by Mr. Trumbo, because it was a typed letter on plain paper with only initials at the bottom of the message. Mr. "Mackie questioned the" legality of such a letter. The Board agreed that any further communications received by the Planning and Zoning Board at least be on letter head stationary and have a signature, not initials. Mr. Loeffler made a motion to deny the letter from the City Attorney and to have it stricken from the record. Mrs. Blazi amended the motion by adding that anything in writing from the City Attorney must be presented properly on his letterhead with his proper signature. The amended motion was seconded by Mr. Klein. The amended Motion Carried 5-0. The Board asked the secretary to send a memo to the City Attorney stating that the Board will no longer accept correspondance from his office unless it is in the proper form. SITE PLANS: SP 8616 KEN WINTER CONVENIENCE STORE WITH GAS PUMPS. Mr. Wallace was present to discuss this site plan. Mr. Wallace presented the Board with an updated/revised site plan. Mr. Mackie and Mr. Klein stated they thought it looked more like a restaurant than a convenience store. Mr. Wallace stated that it was not a restaurant, and that the owner was just utilizing a convenience situation as an accessory use called quick service. As a quick service Mr. Wallace and the owner believe it is allowed in the City's B-3 zoning district. Mrs. Blazi said that as far as she was concerned, McDonalds was considered quick service, but she was under the impression that a convenience store held the basic items at a higher cost for convenience. Mrs. Blazi asked for the definition of a convenience store. From what Mrs. Plaskett could determine there is no defin- ition of a convenience store which causes a problem. Mrs. Plaskett -3- September 18, 1986 Planning and Zoning Board Minutes o o said that according to the definition concerning restaurants, the quick service area of the store is considered restaurant type B. Mr. Wallace said that the grill, broiler and other cooking implementsv would be removed if necessary and they would settle for microwaves and that sort of thing. Mrs. Blazi said that there should not be any eating on the premises and Mr. Wallace agreed that it could be made all carry out. Mrs. Plaskett said there was enough parking for a convenience store, but she really didn't thing the requirements/ could be met as far as restaurant parking. Mr. Wallace added that there would be gas pumps also. Mr. Mackie asked about the locationv of the gas pumps. Mrs. Plaskett informed the Board that gas pumps have to be twenty-five (25) feet from the street right of way line. Mr. Wallace brought up the driveways. Mr. Wallace quoted from the State Road Department Driveway Regulations covering private entrances and exits. The Department of Transportation states that single and double drives require twelve (12) to sixty (60) feet width for ent- rances, and fuel pumps are allowed to be as close as twelve (12) feet from the right of way. Mr. Mackie stated that the state can say what- ever they want, but if we want to improve on the rules we have the right to. Mr. Mackie felt that this site plan should not have come before the Board because there would have to be a lot of contingencies in order to approve the site plan. Mrs. Blazi made a motion to table this site plan until the Planning Department has a completely revised plan for the Board to approve with all questions answered and taken care of. Motion was seconded by Mr. Finn. Motion to Table Carried 5-0. SP 8619 RAY RICHARDS PUMP HOUSE WITH GAS PUMPS. Mr. Wallace was present to discuss this site plan. Mr. Wallace handed out revised/updated plans to the Board. Mrs. Plaskett informed Mr. Wallace that the Fire Inspector requested all future site plans with gas pumps now must show the location of the tanks. Mr. Klein suggested that Mr. Wallace withdraw this site plan because of all the corrections that need to be made. Mr. Klein also suggested that he call the Chairman of the Board and ask for a special meeting for all three site plans. Mr. Mackie suggested that a memo should be drawn up detailing problems on the site plans for the authorized agent so he can have something in writing to go by when corrections are to be made. Mrs. Plaskett informed the Board that the Planning Department was in the process of working up a schedule for a revised site plan cut off date. If the revised site plans are not in the Planning Department by the cut off date, they will not go before the next scheduled Planning and Zoning Board meeting. Mr. Wallace stated that the revised plans he presented to the Board today addressed all the comments that were made at the Department Head meeting. Mr. Mackie wanted to know what the units were that were numbered 1,2,3, and 4. Mrs. Plaskett informed the Board they were future units to be rented out for whatever was allowed -in.the B-2 district. Mr. Mackie brought up the fact that in one area of the site plan there was a temporary pump house. Mrs. Plaskett told the Board that they could not have an accessory use without a primary use on the vacant lot. The only way they can put these gas pumps in is if there is a permanent structure on the lot. The pump house is there as a primary use. Mr. Mackie said that if units 1,2,3 and 4 were not going to be built at this time they should not be on the site plan. Mr. Mackie asked if there was to be a buffer between the convenience store and the city owned property. Mr. Wallace stated there would be a planted buffer and a pipe buffer. September 18, 1986 -4- Planning and Zoning Board Minutes o o Mr. Loeffler brought up the pump house again. Mr. Loeffler wanted to know the time limit on a temporary pump house. Mrs. Plaskett informed the Board there was basically no time limit on a temporary structure and that there is no provision for minimum structure size in the B-2 district. Mr. Wallace.stated that this particular struct- ure would be seven by seven (7 X 7). Mr. Klein made a recommendation to table this until the future building is taken off the site plan, because the Board will not approve a site plan with a future building on it. Mr. Wallace asked that the site plan be approved with contingencies. Mr. Loeffler said that as long as the buildings were showing on the site plan, the future buildings should be build now and not at a later date. Mr. Loeffler added that there should be a time limit set on the temporary pump house. Mr. Mackie suggesting tabling the site plan and having a special meeting when the Chairman is available for all three site plans if they are re- vised, brought into the Planning Department and have been O.K. 'd by the Department Heads. Mr. Mackie stated the problem with approving site plans with contingencies is that the Board never hears what the out- come is on the site plans the Board has approved, and the Board never gets confirmation back on anything. Mr. Wallace asked that before the Board voted, they consider excluding the future building and approve the site plan as it was presented. Mrs. Plaskett said she had stated before that the site plan required fifteen (15) parking spaces and there were still only twelve (12) shown on the site plan. Mr. Klein made a motion to table the site plan, because of all the inadequacies or requirements that have not been fulfilled and not approving a site plan that shows a future building. Mrs. Blazi seconded the motion. Motion to Table the site plan Carried 5-0. NEW BUSINESS: Mrs. Blazi brought up the recommendation to Council to change the wording regarding outdoor display. Basically the change would be the display of merchandise related to occupational licenses and may be permitted at issuance, which opens up a terrific can of worms. Mrs. Blazi asked the Board to consider advising the Council that as far as outdoor display is concerned on U.S. 1, they should be looking at it asthetically, economically and from a safety point of view. There are areas where traffic is affected. We need to look at how an outdoor display is going to look on U.S. 1. REVIEW APPLICATION FOR SPECIAL EXCEPTION FOR OUTDOOR DISPLAY AND STORAGE Re: Bric "N" Brac. Mr. Chris Mundell was present to discuss the special exception app- lication. Mr. Mundell stated he wanted to be able to display things related to his business, a thrift shop. Mr. Mundell informed the Board that he did have a sign, but his business had fallen off drast- ically since he was not allowed to have any outdoor display. Mrs. Plaskett informed the Board that the reason a special exception is needed for outdoor display is because everyone displays something different. It is up to this Board to determine the type of merchan- dise to be displayed is what you want out on the highway. Mr. Mundell stated he wanted the special exception for outdoor display and for storage. Mr. Mackie asked if there had been any complaints regarding the outdoor display of Mr. Mundell's Bric "N" Brac store. Mr. Mundell had been before the Code Enforcement Board shortly after his business opened, approximately six months ago, and he admitted that the outdoor display was an eyesore. The Board agreed they are not out to hurt business, they are only trying to clean up the city. Mrs. Blazi felt this was something the Board needed to take a good look at, work on, and work on it with the Board of Adjustments and in the meantime, it would be her recommendation to turn down any of these special exceptions until the Board had a chance to review the criteria for granting such special excpetions. September 18, 1986 -5- Planning and Zoning Board Minutes o o . . Mrs. Blazi made a motion to recommend to the Board of Adjustments to deny the special exception for outdoor display at this time, but to allow storage behind the place of business temporarily until such time that we have had an opportunity to really look into it and make some concrete recommendations and guidelines. Mr. Leoffler seconded the motion. Motion to Recommend Denial to the Board of Adjustments Carried 5-0. REVIEW APPLICATION FOR SPECIAL EXCEPTION FOR OUTDOOR DISPLAY Re: B.J. 's General Merchandise. No one was present to discuss this special exception. Because of the reasons stated above in the special exception request by Chris Mundell of Bric "N' Brac, Mrs. Blazi included Broadway Jenkins, B.J. 's General Merchandise in her motion to recommend denial for the special exception for outdoor display. Motion Carried as above, 5-0. ZONING TEXT AMENDMENT TO ADD OFF SITE SIGNS TO THE ORDINANCE AS A PERMITTED USE. Re: Dedes Konstantinos Off Site Sign Request. Mr. Konstantinos was present to discuss the zoning text amendment. Mrs. Plaskett informed the Board that Mr. Konstantinos had purchased a piece of property in Edgewater. He does not plan to build on it for a few years, but he would like to put a sign up advertising his existing business in New Smyrna Beach. In New Smyrna Beach they have a provision in their ordinance to allow one off site sign. We have no provision for off site signs in our ordinance. Since we have no provision, Mr. Konstantinos is asking the Board to make such a provision as a permitted use. Mr. Konstantinos want's a four by four (4 X 4) sign, approximately thirty-two (32) square feet on his vacant lot. Mrs. Plaskett suggested if the Board was to make a provision for off site signs, the Board should limit them to one off site sign, the type of business and to the size of the sign. Mr. Mackie stated that since there was not a full Board he did not feel there should be any changes made in the ordinance. Mrs. Blazi asked the Planning Assistant to gather any available information regarding off site signs from New Smyrna Beach, so the Board would have some guidelines to go by. Mr. Konstantinos said he was paying taxes on the property and it is the future site of another of his donut shops and this would help Edgewater. Mr. Loeffler asked Mr. Konstantinos when he planned on building in Edgewater and Mr. Konstantinos replied that it would be approximately three years. Mr. Loeffler suggested the possibility of a temporary construction sign on the property stating it was the future site of his business and that the business was now operating in New Smyrna Beach. The Board agreed that would solve his problem until the Board could change the ordinance and make a provision for off site signs. Mr. Loeffler made a motion to allow Mr. Konstantinos to erect a temporary construction sign for a period of one year, renewable, not to exceed thirty-two (32) square feet, and that it must meet all of the City's requirements. Mrs. Blazi amended the motion adding that the sign must be structurally sound. Mrs. Blazi seconded the Amended Motion Carried 5-0. There being no further business to come before the Board, Mrs. Blazi made a motion to adjourn the meeting. Motion was seconded by Mr. Klein. Meeting adjourned at 11:40 A.M. Minutes respectfully submitted by: Beverly Kinney Planning and Zoning Board Minutes Regular Meeting September 18, 1986 -6- VERBATIM TRANSCRIPT ATTACHED: PER MOTION AT OCTOBER 16, 1986 MEETING ':\-1 ..:-",'",," u ~ PLANNING AND ZONING BOARD MEETING SEPTEMBER 18, 1986 VERBATIM TRANSCRIPT OF SECTION OF MRS. PLASKETT INFORMING BOARD OF HOW THE LETTER FROM THE CITY ATTORNEY WAS RECEIVED IN THE PLANNING OFFICE. MR. MACKIE: Mr. Klein has something to say. MR. KLEIN: I should have said at the er during the public meeting or the session we had but I really question the authencity of this letter that was read into the record. The only thing it says is received 8-18-86. It has initials at the bottom, there is no heading on it. I really question the authencity of this from our Attorney. If he doesn't have letterhead then there is a problem. Also the fact that we are alright through the first one, about three paragraphs there but when you get to the bottom one there is a lot of ways to interpret things but I never heard a attorney to say that shall means may. MR. MACKIE: Not according to the dictionaries I have looked up. MR. KLEIN: I have been in court before, partcipated in it and I have never heard shall interpreted as may. MRS. PLASKETT: I think what he was saying was that you might want to interpret it that way. MR. KLEIN: Yeah, and then, alright then if we are paying a man to represent us then I think if he is doing nothing but trying to get us in trouble if we construe it as saying may. MRS. BLAZI: May I say something? MR. KLEIN: Yes, Madam. MRS. BLAZI: In the past for example used car lots were a special exception, and then the ------- City Attorne~ and I don't remember which one it was, and the Council refused to give the or never gave the Board of Adjustment any criteria, any guidelines and consequently we end up eventually with used car lots as a permitted use. Which means technically we could probably have used car lots from one end at from that Winn Dixie to that Winn Dixie if we want it. The same seems to be true of this. I mean he is not really giving them a specific guideline I mean you can say you can use may that doesn't tell them much of anything. ----------------- and I honestly believe that the Board of Adjustments as well as the Zoning Board, all needs specific guidelines and if they are going to start changing I happen to agree with you changing words "shall" to "may" or might or -------------- then we have to depend on who in heavens name is on the Board of Adjustments at that time, who is on the Council at that time and who is appearing before them at that time. And ah some of our best ordinances have been watered down to the point where they are virtually impossible to uphold and they don't have any teeth in them at arl and this is another. I mean you are just pulling some teeth out of this as far as I am concerned. MR. KLEIN: You are opening for whoever, you ,know. MRS. BLAZI: That's what I mean, their interpretation then. MR. FINN: It seems to me as though what they are doing is taking that thing out and saying what we should say is may instead of shall. lViR. KLEIN: Right, I agree with you. MRS. BLAZI: Yeah MRS. PLASKETT:: This letter as a matter of, for clarification, was v ~ ~ MRS. PLASKETT CONTINUED: received in the Planning Department. The letter was dictated over the phone to his secretary while I was on the phone and actually the letter was to me. Even though it is not addressed to me. I needed something in writing other than a telephone conversation to help the Board of Adjustments make some type of interpretation. I just wanted to let you know that that is what this was. It wasn't actually addressed to you or to the Board it was actually for me for I feel that it was imperative that the Board of Adjustments and you to have a copy. MR. KLEIN: I appreciate that Lynne and the fact is the budget, in the budget there is forty five thousand dollars appropriated in the City for attorney fees. I am sure that in the year running that it is considerably more that that and any further communication received THIS Planning and Zoning Board at least be on his letterhead with his signature. MR. MACKIE: I will go along with that because we should never enter any letter in a Board of any type going on that is not signed, sealed and delivered. That is illegal to begin with. First of all we don't know who wrote that letter we have, everything is word of mouth. We have been getting to many things word of mouth as .far as this Board is concerned and we have been asked to cooperate. We try to cooperate we send it back on the approval of the planning department and approval of the engineer and so on and so forth. We never get a confirmation back to find out how these things, these projects have been taken care of after we suggested they have to be done before the final approval. So we sort of leaving a lot of things sliding by and we could be in a lot of trouble. I would suggest from here on in that these projects that we have if they are not up to date that they have to go through our City Planner and if they are not up to date the way they should be with all this literature we are getting with this stuff as we have today should not come before the Board until it is approved.