08-21-1986 - Public Hearing/Regular
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CITY OF EDGEWATER
PLANNING AND ZONING BOARD
PUBLIC HEARING/REGULAR MEETING
AUGUST 21, 1986,9:00 A.M.
COMMUNITY CENTER
"MINUTES
Chairman Wheeler called to order a publ ic hearing/regular meeting of the
Planning and Zoning Board at 9:00 A.M., August 21, 1986, in the Community
Center.
ROLL CALL:
Members present were Jake Wheeler, Billy
and James Mackie. Also present were Jan
and Lynne Plaskett, Planning Assistant.
Board member Paul Loeffler was absent.
Klein, George Quaggin, Fred Finn
Morris and Beverly Kinney, Secretaries,
Board member Nancy Blazi was excused and
PUBLIC HEARING:
The Comprehensive Pl,an is -being updated/revised to be ,in compl iancewibh nevoJ
legislation. This includes the Radnor annexation and basically amends all of
the maps to include the new city boundaries, updating of population, housing,
water and sewer, and recreation and open space.
Lynne Plaskett informed the Board that this was strictly an updating/revision
of the existing Comphehensive Plan and has nothing to do with the Comprehensive
Plan being prepared in the workshops.
Lynne Plaskett stated that most of the information was received through our
city offices. As far as water and sewer were concerned, there were two (2)
wells added. Parks and recreation had acquired an additional fourteen (14)
acres south of Edgewater Estates and a park on Riverside Drive along with
other land that had not been shown on the 1981 Comprehensive Plan.
The Board was informed that the updating/revision of the Comprehensive Plan
was recommended by the city attorney since it>had not been amended since 19B1.
This amended Comprehensive Plan will include the Radnor annexation. The Comp-
rehensive Plan will be amended again to include everything else that has been
done since 1981 once the Planning Department receives more substantial infor-
mation from the different department heads. There will probably be more annex-
ations by that time.
Mr. Quaggin wanted clarification on population. Lynne Plaskett informed the
Board that as of June 1985, the population was twelve thousand five (12,005).
She arrived at this figure with water connection, Southern Bell and util ities
information available. The total land use is four thousand seven hundred and
thirty five (4,735) acres and nine hundred sixty two (962) acres urbanized.
Mr. Klein wanted to see the pages that were updated/revised. Lynne Plaskett
informed Mr. Klein that the amended Comprehensive Plan has been in the Planning
Department since August 11, 1986, for viewing and that it was also advertised
in the paper.
There being no other questions and since none of the publ ic showed up for the
publ ic hearing, a motion was made to accept the updated Comprehensive Plan by
Mr. Finn and was seconded by Mr. Quaggin. Motion Carried 5-0.
A motion was made to adjourn the publ ic hearing by Mr. Mackie and seconded by
Mr. Klein. Motion Carried 5-0.
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REGULAR MEETING:
Chairman Wheeler cal led the regular meeting to order.
APPROVAL OF MINUTES:
Approval of the minutes for July 17, 1986, was tabled until the next regular
mee t i ng .
SITE PLAN REVIEW:
SP-8614 JOHN WILBUR OFFICE BUILDING
Mr. John Wilbur was present to discuss this site plan. Lynne Plaskett, Planning
Assistant, informed the Board that al I of the comments that she had were addressed
by Mr. Wilbur and the site plan before the Board showed the actual changes, because
of the comments made by the Planning Department. He has addressed the comments on
this site plan.
The parking problems were addressed. Mr. Wilber closed off one of the entrances
on Indian River Boulevard and one 6fthe entrances off of India Palm, because it
is a residential district. The parking lot is being paved. As far as the handi-
capped parking, there was no way Hr. Wilbur could get the parking space in the
front. The Planning Department told Mr. \/ilbur to go ahead and leave that parking
space in the back. There is plenty of parking available.
The Planning Department is awaiting a letter from the engineer stating the items
he had problems with have been corrected.
t1r. Mackie made a motion to accept the plan pending the approval of our city
engineer. Mr. Finn seconded the motion. Motion Carried 5-0.
sp-8615 BARRY DUNCAN NOLAND/CAR COMPANY
Mr. Duncan was present to discuss this site
all Noland Car Company wanted to do was add
sixteen (16) feet by eightyfour (34} feet.
frames per Mr. Duncan..
plan. Lynne Plaskett told the Board
a cement slab. The slab is to be
The slab would be used to store painted
A motion was made by Mr. Klein to accept this site plan. Mr. Mackie seconded the
motion. Motion Carried 5-0.
sp-8616 REVEREND MIRACLE FRIENDSHIP BAPTIST CHURCH
Sid Corhern was present to discuss this site plan. A letter from the Board of
Adjustment was provided by the Board to show approval of the special exception
for Friendship Baptist Church.
Ther parking lot does not have to be paved until Hibiscus Drive is paved, but the
Board decided to require Friendship Baptist Church have the curbing put in so the
parking lot will be ready to be paved. Sid Corhern/Friendship Baptist Church
agreed to this.
Lunne Plaskett was concerned about parking spaced thirty five (35) and thirty six
(36), becuase two (2) cars backing out at the same time would cause an accident.
The landscape plan includes Pita Sporum, Wax Myrtle Trees and other plant material.
Two (2) Palm Trees will be relocated.
A motion to accept the site plan providing the curbing is put in and the parking
lot is paved no later than the time Hibiscus Drive is paved and that an agreement
is signed regarding the paving by Mr. Finn. Mr. Mackie seconded the motion.
Motion Carried 5-0.
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NEW BUSINESS:
REVIEW APPLICATION FOR SPECIAL EXCEPTION TO ALLOW GAS PUMPS IN B-2 ZONING
DISTRICT AND MAKE RECOMMENDATION TO BOARD OF ADJUSTMENT
Mr. Donnie Will iams was present to represent the Magnuson Corporation of
Florida Shores, Volusia County. Mr. Earl Wallace was present to represent
Mr. Raymond Richards. Mr. Wallace requested permission to speak. Permission
was granted by the Board. Mr. Wallace felt that due to the fact the attorney
has not been in this area and the Board of Adjustment tabled Mr. Richards
project on this particular situation. Out of respect for Mr. Richards and his
project, Mr. Wallace asked the Board to table this and take no action at the
present time.
At this time Mr. Donnie Will iams asked to be recognized by the Board. Mr. Wil Iiams
stated that the present owners of this si~e, Magnuson Corporation, Florida Shores,
Vol usia County, have a pending contract with the Southland Corporation to sell the
site to them. They would be the ultimate users. Mr. Will iams requested the Board
consider the application on the merits as it stands right now. Mr. Will iams said
he would be glad to answer any questions relative to this or Mr. Richards proposal
even though he did not think it was pertinent at this time.
The Board discussed ordinance 86-0-3 and section 713 in relation to convenience
stores and gas pumps. Chairman Wheeler stated the Richards thing has been hanging
on for some time and they have never disposed of it. Chairman Wheeler felt that
the Richards appl ication should be taned care of first and get it out of the way,
and then bring Donnie Will iamsl application back to the Planning and Zoning Board.
Mr. Klein stated that the Board cound not grant a special exception under the law
as it sits now, because of the seven hundred and fifty (750) feet. Mr. Klein made
a motion to table this until a later date because at the present time there is
already one appl ication in process. Mr. Mackie seconded the mot.ion. Motion Carried
5-0.
Mr. Donnie Wi 11 iams requested to speak again. He stated there was sufficient reason
to question the seven hundred and fifty (750) feet requirement. He questioned the
val idity of convenience store gas pumps qualifying as auto service stations in the
code book. Finally, he pointed out the fact that the residents of Florida Shores
should have a choice of where to shop. The Board stayed with their decision to
table this appl ication.
Lynne Plaskett suggested that the Board go to the Board of Adjustment special meeting
scheduled for Thursday, AU9ust 28, 1986, at 7:00 P.M., in City Hall to hear the
interpretation of ordinance 86-0-3, section 713 by City Attorney Alvarez.
SECTION 606.02 OUTDOOR DISPLAY SPECIAL EXCEPTION B-3 ZONING
The Board discussed changing the wording of section 606.02 (d) regarding outdoor
displays. It was recommended by the Code Enforcement Officer to add II The display
of merchandise related to occupational 1 icenses may be permitted at issuance.11
The Board felt that this was not necessary. The board agreed to remove the word
Ilstor:age". The Board decided that a six foot fence will still be required, but the
four (4) solid bottom and two (2) foot open areas are no longer required to encompass
outdoor property. A motion was made subject to the changes just made regarding
occupational 1 icenses and the fence by Mr. Finn. It was seconded by Mr. Klein.
Motion Carried 5-0.
SECTION 701.01 PROHIBATIVE SIGNS AND SIGN LIGHTS
The Board discussed removing ordinance section 701.01 (c) regarding prohibitive
signs and sign lights. According to Mrs. Plaskett, the way the section reads,
all signs and sign 1 ights on any building or structure in the city are illegal.
A motion was made to delete section 701.01 (c) from the ordinance by Mr. Klein
and seconded by Mr. Finn. Mmtion Carried 5-0.
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AMENDMENT OF ZONING ORDINANCE 605.02 MH-2
The Board discussed criteria for the MH-2 district. Mrs. Plaskett informed the
Board that the way the ordinance stands, it gives only a lot size and does not
include any setbacks and does not include development signs. Mrs. Plaskett also
stated that mobile home subdivision lot size was in the Comprehensive Plan.
A lot size should not be included in the Comprehensive Plan, per Mrs. Plaskett,
but in the zoning ordinance. The error was corrected during the amending of the
Comprehensive Plan.
Glen Storch, attorney for the Radnor Corporation was present. Glenn Storch vol-
unteered to get all available information regarding mobile/manufactured home
sizes. Lynne Plaskett told the Board that they could not amend the zoning ordin-
ance just for the Radnor property. Any zoning ordinance has to be done ci1ty wide.
Mr. Mackie said he was concerned about the depth of the lots. Mrs. Plaskett was
more concerned about the width of the lots. Mr. Mackie thought it would look nice
if al I the lots were uniform, but Mrs. Plaskett felt it might be boring with all
the mobile/manufactured homes being right in a row. She also felt that mobile/
manufactured home owners should have the same rights as home owners as far as where
they put their carports, uti lity rooms and porches.
Mrs. Plaskett pointed out that an atypical lot would be any lot that has a nice
view, for example, a golf course or the river and that a visibil ity triangle of
thirty (30) feet enables all abuting property owners the same view with no one
person cutting off the view with a storage shed or some other obstruction.
Mr. Klein made a motion to table this until there was more information available.
Mr. Finn seconded the motion. Motion Carried 5-0.
Mr. Mackie made a motion to hold a workshop for the Planning and Zoning Board when
the information related to this and anything else that may come up related to the
Comprehensive Plan is available. Mr. Finn seconded the motion. Motion Carried 5-0.
Chairman Wheeler asked Mrs. Plaskett to call a workshop together when the requested
information becomes available, and she agreed to this.
RECOMMENDED FEE FOn TREE REMOVAL
The Board discussed fees for tree removal. Lynne Plaskett informed the Board that
at the present time there is no fee for tree removal. Mrs. Plaskett also stated
there was a permit application for tree removal, but she didn't know if a permit
for tree removal had ever been issued.
Mr. Klein said there were regulations for preservation of trees during construction
of a site and that the regulations are not being enforced. Mr. Klein said the
Building Official should enforce these regulations.
Mrs. Plaskett stated that right now the city does not have any tree removal permits
whatsoever, and they are just going in and raping the land of al I the trees.
Mrs. Plaskett also said that as far as she knew, there is not enough manpower to
cover all these items so some of these things have to be let go. Chairman Wheeler
suggested a letter be sent to Council quoting the ordinance, informing Council the
ordinance is not being enforced and that the Planning and Zoning Board wants to know
why. Mr. Klein added, the Planning and Zoning Board feels that the ordinance should
be enforced and the job is not being done.
Mrs. Plaskett asked the Board if they wanted fees for tree removal. The Board
agreed that they did want tree removal fees. Mr. Quaggin felt the fee for removing
one (1) to ten (10) trees should be fifteen dollars ($15.00) instead of the suggested
ten dollars C$JO.OO). The Board agreed with the fifteen dollar ($15.00) fee for one
(1) to ten (10) trees. Mr. Mackie made a motion to accept the tree removal fees.
Mr. Finn seconded the motion. Motion Carried 5-0.
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ADJOURNMENT:
There being no further business to come before the Board, Hr. Klein made
a motion to adjourn the meeting. Motion was seconded by r~r. Finn.
Meeting adjourned at 10:40 A.M.
Minutes respectfully submitted by:
Beverly Kinney
Planning and Zoning Board
Public Hearing/Regular Meeting
Minutes: August 21, 1986
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PLANNING AND ZONING BOARD
VERBATIM MINUTES
AUGUST 21, 1986, 9:00 A.M.
Tree Removal: Recommended Fees
Chairman Wheeler: OK, now here's the next one. Memo from Lynne. Recommend
fee for tree removal. OK. Let's go. Tree removal fellows, it's next on the
agenda.
Mr. Klein: How many of these do you actually get for tree removal? Does every-
body that clears a lot in the City of Edgewater supposed to...
Mrs. Plaskett: They're supposed to, but I don't think they do it.
Chairman Wheeler: Nobody's doing it.
Mr. Klein: Is there any fines imposed or...
Mrs. Plaskett: NO, there's none enforced at all.
Mr. Klein: Why not?
Mrs. Plaskett: Because there is no fee involved, so why should they bother.
I shouldn't say that. I don't know to tell you the truth.
Mr. Klein: At the present time there is no fee for tree removal?
Mrs. Plaskett: There is no fee for tree removal, there is a permit application.
I don't know if they've ever even issued one.
Mr. Klein: This brings up, this tree thing that you've brought up...
Chairman Wheeler: Now you can step in there Mr. Klein.
Mr. Klein: This tree thing that's brought up, and I talked last time on this, and
two or three of you wasn't here, is the way that these trees are being removed, the
way they are being tore up, ah, we've got regulations in here, in the book, on how
the preservation during the construction of a site even, and it's not being handled.
Mrs. Plaskett: Well, there getting...
Mr. Klein: None of these are being enforced.
Mrs. Plaskett: What they are doing, th€~!re issuing a tree removal permit with no
fees whatsoever, so I don't know if the fee itself justifies the enforcement of it
or not, to tell you the truth I don't know.
Mr. Klein: If you go up here to where th~'re building...
Mrs. Plaskett: Behind the ah
Mr. Klein: Charlie Cobb's new building.
Mrs. Plaskett: Charlie Cobb's new building?
Mr. Klein: In our regulations ~"says that there is to be some kind of fence or
something around the dew line of the tree. Now gentlemen, there's a big oak tree
that's got a thirty foot radius and you build a six foot fence around it? That's
not the dew line of the tree. Now these they have on part of the trees built.
But if the dew line of the tree is the outside of it and their not building it.
In Florida Shores they are covering up the trees down there and they're rotting them.
Mrs. Plaskett: ya, there killing them.
Chairman Wheeler: There dying.
Mr. Klein: They're dying and in our regulations it says that it has to be at ground
level or a well put in there.
Mr. Finn: Well who's supposed to enforce this, the building inspector?
Mr. Klein: The building inspector and it's not being done.
Chairman Wheeler: Now just a minute, may I say something. That, we brought that
up at the last meeting, you and I.
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.Mr s. Pas e t t :
He waSIl' there.
Chairman Wheeler: Yes he was here, yes he was.
Mrs. Plaskett: Was Dennis here?
Chairman Wheeler: Yes he was, that's the reason we got this letter.
Mr. Klein: We got a letter.
Chairman Wheeler: We got a letter from him, because..
Mr. Klein: He didn't want stuff like this brought up in these meetings. We were
to come to him, but he is to enforce these and we make the regulations, help make
them, and I think it's time that some of these regulations be enforced.
Mr. Finn: Well it's up 'to the Board to make these regulations, it's up to him to
enforce them.
Mr. Klein: That's right.
Mr. Finn: He's doing it the other way around. He want's us to do what he want's
to do. That's not right.
Chairman Wheeler: We're not going to do what he want's to do.
Mr. Finn: O.K.
Chairman Wheeler: If it's alright
Mr. Klein:
followed as
seventy per
is.
But we have stipulations already on the book and there not being
far as trees, leaving seventy per cent of the trees, or no more than
cent of the trees are to be removed. Who knows whether seventy per cent
Mr. Finn: Well the only one who's going to know that is when the lot is sold and
the inspector gets in there when the man's going to build.
Mrs. Plaskett: With the site plan
Mr. Finn: With the site plan. That's the only way you're going to know.
Mr. Mackie: Well one time here we used to have, when a permit was issued for a
building, before anything was done to the property, the building inspector went out
and approved what trees could be taken out and what not.
Chairman Wheeler: Well, that's what is supposed to be done now. But it isn't ~
being done. I don't think.
Mr. Mackie: They tie a string or plastic, whatever, around the tree, this tree
stays, that tree stays, and whatever has to be removed for the site plan, that can't
be replanted, then they have to OK it and let it go.
Mr. Finn: I thought they were doing that. I've seen those around in places.
Mr. Mackie: Well this is what, this is what...
Mr. Finn: Who's doing the thing?
Mr. Mackie: The building inspector. We had that for the building inspector to do it.
After the site plan come in and he looked over the site plan, then he went out to see it
before they did anything, before they even cleared it, and then he put his little tape
on the tree, what had to stay, and what was on the site plan, and as I said, if it was
too big of a tree that you can't plant it, it has to come down, you can't do nothing
about it, and they tried to save as many trees as possible. We were doing that years
ago, but it got out of hand, because so many started doing this and that, everybody
forgot about what we're supposed to be doing.
Mrs. Plaskett: I think the proper way to handle this is if you've got real problems
with what's being done or not being done, is to have, or make a motion that we write
Council and address this item. Right know we have no tree removal permits whatsoever.
They are just going in and raping the land of all the trees, and no one, you know,
Dennis doesn't have the manpower or whatever, the time to inspect trees because he's
making so many other inspections, or his code enforcement officers are out trying to
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Planning and Zoning Board Verbatim Minutes August 21, 1986 Tree removal fees
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M~s. Plaskett Continued:
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.find violations. This what I hear all the time, there's not enough manpower
to cover all of these items, so some things have to be let go. The only thing
I could suggest is that we write a memo from the Planning Board to Council, make
them aware of what's being done or not being done and what you want to see done.
Mr. Finn: How many houses, on the average, are being built in the town in a month,
average./
Mrs. Plaskett: About forty a month.
Mr. Finn: That's not too many to inspect.
Mrs. Plaskett: Well he doesn't inspect it one time now. He might inspect that
house fifteen or twenty times. Every phase...
Mr. Finn: Just before the men clear the lot.....
Mrs. Plaskett: When they put the walls up they have inspection. When they put
the roof in they inspect it.
Mr. Finn: I'm not talking about that, I am talking about this part here. If when
the lot is going to be cleared, he goes out before that and just marks off these
trees. . .
Mrs. Plaskett: When I talked to Dennis about this, according to him, we have no,
we have no permits for land clearing, for lot clearing. OK? I went ahead and got
an example from the City of New Smyrna Beach, because they do have lot clearing
requirements, and brought it to the City Engineer, the city engineer has reviewed it,
and as far as I know, he is still reviewing it.
Chairman Wheeler: They passed it.
Mrs. Plaskett: They did?
Chairman Wheeler: last night.
Mrs. Plaskett: They did?
Chairman Wheeler: Ya, it was in the paper today.
Mrs. Plaskett: Oh, well I didn't go to the meeting, I was sick Monday. So ah, at
least we'll have some type of a lot clearing permit. Now with a lot clearing permit,
I don't even know if that applies to single family or if it's just commercial. OK?
If that applies to single family, then maybe you can make them do something about the
trees. As far as the commercial part of the thing, at least if they have land clearing
permits, before there was no land clearing permit, they could just go out there and
clear the land.
Mr. Finn: You mean this here is for commercial only?
Mrs. Plaskett: This right here is for commercial.
Mr. Klein: The tree preservation and protection we have in section 714-51, which
it's short title says this article shall be known and be sited as a tree preservation
and protection ordinance of the City. And that's for the whole city.
Mrs. Plaskett: That's right.
Mr. Klein:
commercial.
And that's for the whole city, and he's telling me_that'it is only for
It is not, it is for the whole city. And it's not being enforced.
Mrs. Plaskett: OK. I didn't know that. I thought it was commercial too.
Mr. Finn: I think that was put in since 1982.
Mrs. Plaskett: The tree preservation ordinance?
Chairman Wheeler: Ya. I think what we ought to do..
Mr. Klein: These builders in Florida Shores in particular are taking bulldozers in
there and moving dirt, they're scraping the trees, they're killing them, they're covering
them three feet or more in , with sand and dirt and stuff and killing the roots.
Chairman Wheeler: I'll tell you what...
Mr. Klein: That's not what it says in this.....
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Planning and Zoning Board Vertabim Minutes August 21, 1986 Tree Removal Fees
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.Chairman Wheeler:
and we quote this
to know why.
I make a suggestion. Let's send a letter to City Council
ordinance here in the book and it's not being enforced and we want
Mrs. Plaskett: OK.
Mr. Klein: We feel that it should be enforced.
Mrs. Plaskett: Alright, I agree.
Mrs. Klein: And the job is not being done.
Mrs. Plaskett: I agree. Do you want to have fees to remove these trees: I think
we should.
Mr. Klein: Yes.
Mr. Finn: Yes.
Mr. Quaggin: Yes
Mr. Mackie: Yes.
Chairman Wheeler: I think so
Mrs. Plaskett: At least we'd have some way of knowing how many trees are being
removed, ~ho's doing it legally and who isn't.
End of Tape.
Start of New Tape.
Chairman Wheeler: But now listen, seperate this letter we're going to send to
City Council. Lynne?
Mrs. Plaskett: Huh?
Chairman Wheeler: This letter, Jan, that werle going to send to Council now,
seperate that from this other ordinance here, about what we're, you know, about
trees.
Mr. Klein: Well they will have to adopt this won't they?
Chairman Wheeler: Ya.
Mrs. Plaskett: Ya
Chairman Wheeler: There is going to be a difference. They are two different things,
that's what I'm talking about. Do you make a motion to accept this?
Mr. Klein: With the addition of instead of one to ten trees ten dollars, make it
fifteen.
Chairman Wheeler: Do I have a second on that one?
Mr. Finn: I'll second that.
Chairman Wheeler: Roll Call.
Jan Morris: Mr. Wheeler?
Chairman Wheeler: Yes
Jan Morris: Mr. Klein?
Mr. Klein: Yes.
Jan Morris: Mr. Finn?
Mr. Finn: Yes.
Jan Morris: Mr. Quaggin ?
Mr. Quaggin: Yes.
Jan Morris: Mr. Mackie?
Mr. Mackie: Yes. See that's what was happening with
Ah, A guy, you know he's going to build on a piece of
By the time the guy over here checks the permit, he's
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Planning and Zoning Board Vertabim Minutes August 21, 1986
what Mr. Klein just mentioned.
property and he brings in a permit.
cleared the lot. He's ready to go.
Tree Removal Fees
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-Mr. Mackie Continued
And then he's in here and saying'when do you want to get going. Everybody's in
a hurry to go no place.
Chairman Wheeler: We want to know why this tree ordinance is not being enforced.
Mrs. Plaskett: OK.
Chairman Wheeler: Because we worked hard on coming up with that ordinance.
Mr. Finn: We spent quite a bit of time on that.
Mrs. Plaskett: It's a good ordinance too.
Mr. Klein: Well, theres trees here even on the Charlie Cobb's place that aren't
even roped off to protect them.
Chairman Wheeler: Sure you're right.
Mr. Finn: We went through that about the same time as Port Orange had that.
Remember that thing up there where they stopped the construction of the shopping
Center?
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Chairman Wheeler: Fellows I guess that's all we got on here. I don't see anything
else. Anything else come up? Jim you?
Mr. Mackie: No.
Mr. Klein: Do we need to adopt this cut off for site plan applications? Or do
you just arbitrarily say?
Mrs. Plaskett: We just do it administratively.
Mr. Klein: OK.
Chairman Wheeler: Anything else to come up before the Board?
Mr. Klein: I would make a motion that we adjourn.
Mr. Finn: Second.
Chairman Wheeler: Adjourn.
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Planning and Zoning Board
Verbatim Minutes
August 21, 1986
Tree Removal Fees