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09-27-1978 Special Joint w/ Planning Board --. u (J CITY OF EDGEWATER SPECIAL JOINT MEETING OF ZONING BOARD AND PLANNING BOARD September 27, 1978 The Zoning Board had requested a special joint meeting to discuss the site plans for the Pelican Cove subdivision. - lhe plans must be approved by both the Zoning and Pl~nning Boards. Chairman Robert Wolfe, Zoning Board, called the meeting to order at 7:30 P.M. in the City Planner's Office. ROLL CALL Zoning Board: Robert Wolfe James Engle David Wiggins Richard Bartholomew James Mackie William Nichols Sebastian Siciliano Present Present Absent Present Present Present Present Planning Board: Arthur Schilling -Edwa rd Y ac ke 1 Betty Still Steve Hardock Ryta Webber Marie Nichols Jacob Lodico William Grollemund Harold Read, Jr. Daniel Nolan George Ladhoff Also Present: Richard Diamond, City Planner Don Kuyk, Director of Public Works Mr. Ink e 1 b ~r g e r - R e pre s e n tat i v e 0 f Bel m 0 ntH 0 m e s, b u i 1 d e r s Mr. Asting Mr. Opal Mr. Ledbetter Mr. Glaser Present -Present Excused Absent Present Absent Present Present Present Absent Present Chairman Wolfe explained that the Pelican Cove subdivision was to be located between Friendly Shores and Pyramid Village. The Zoning Board had approved a zoning change to R-4. Mr. Wolfe asked Mr. Kuyk if he had received the recommendations from Briley, wiid. / Mr. Kuyk said that he had received their recommendations and that we have made many more changes than what were in the letter. Mr. Schilling, Chairman of the Planning Board, said that this was the first time the Planning Board had seen these plans. He added that under section 715.02, 'Site Approval Plan, the site plan must be approved by the Zoning and Planning Buards prior to the issuance of a building permit. _He noticed that construction has started in the area called Tract One. He wondered if a permit had "been issued for that site and- if so, why was a permit issued before approval was given. Mr. Diamond said that the Building Inspector was out of town and so tBey could not get an answer to this question. u (,) Mr. Mackie asked Mr. Inkelbargar if they had started construction on the project. Mr. Inkelbargar said that this building was for an office. He had a permit. Mr. Schilling said that the permit was not legal until approval had been given for the site plan. He wanted to know how a permit could have been issued before site approval. There is also nothing on the site arrangement on Tract One tnat defines any building on that tract whatsoever and the fourth requirement of Section 715.02 is the location and dimensions of all buildings, structures and improvements. Mr. Wolfe said that the Building Inspector has a contract with the City, he is not a City employee but is in business for himself. The more building permits he issues, the more money he makes. He can go ahead and give someone a building permit under the State law but he cannot give them a certificate of occupation until the subdivision is approved and the sewer and water is in. Mr. Schilling said that if that is true, this isa meaningless ordinance. Mr. Inkelbargar said they tried to get a building permit to put up an office in that area and they could not get a permit so they bought a trailer to use as an office. Mr. Grollemund said that all the site pl~ns should be available to the boards prior to the issuance of any permits. Mr. Schilling pointed out to Mr. Inkelbargar the steps required for_ approval of a subdivision. The-preliminary plan they submi-tted was to the Zoning Board for a Zoning change. The plans submitted tonight must be approved by both the..Planning 'and Zoning Boards. This must be don~-prior to ~he issuance of a building permit. Mr. ~nkelbargar said that the Zoning Board. had approved these plans. Mr. Wolfe said that was at a workshop meeting and that it is. necessary to give 24 hour notice-before the Boards can hold a public meeting. The plans have to be reviewed again for approval -by both. Boards. Mr. Ladhoff suggested that the Boards -have whoever issued the building permit cited, so that it does not happen again. Mr. Schilling suggested that a procedure be established from now on that any building permits that are involved in a-new site arrangement such as this. should have written.-approval from both th-e Planning and Zoning Boards in the hands of whoever issues the permits before he is authorized to issue a permit. If we are going to have a rule we should have it otherwise we might just as well forget it. Mr. Wolfe said that they could send a mem~ to the City and hope somebody reads it. Mr. Lodico asked who these memo went to in the City. Mr. Wolfe said that they went to whoever handles the Council's business. He assumes it goes to the City Clerk and she hands it out to the Council. Mr. Lodico said that there were a lot of times when he was on the Council that they never got any of those mem?s. Mrs. Webber said that when she was on the Zoning Board they addressed their memos to the Mayor and City Council and she knows positively it never reached them. Mr. Lodico asked who was holding these memos back. Mrs. Webber said that one person was, the City Clerk. 2 (.) o Mr. Wolfe said that he did not know what the Boards could do about this. They were not paid and they had no powers. Mr. Lodico said that he felt the Boards were for the good of the people of the town. Mr. Mackie said that no one in this- City cares what the Boards do, they are just a cog in the wheel because we have to be there. Mr. Wolfe said that maybe if both the Boards send memos maybe someone wi 11 read them. Mr. Ladhoff said that certainly there were enough people-on - these Boards to make some impression. If we back off it does not solve the problem it only makes it worse. Mr. Lodico said that the people should get faster and better service and if it being held up over there then someone should wake them up. Mr. Ladhoff said that it had been said we're only a cog in the wheel operating for them, but they are servants of the people and all we want to do is to negotiate for-the people. The Board members volunteer their time, sometimes as often as 3 or 4 times a week and if there is no attention paid to what we do we all back off and things will fall apart. Mrs. Webber suggested that we send a note to the Mayor and City Council and suggest that it be read at the Council Meeting. This is the only way we can be sure that it is read. Mr-. Schilling said that-all these rules were held to be desirable and they should be observed or we should delete them from the requirements. M r._ W 01 f e sa i d t hat the s e r u 1 e s -we r e put i n for sit e a p pro val to protect the people and the City. Mr. Lodico asked if Mr. Murphy or his assistant had attended any of the meetings. Mr. Wolfe said that when Mr. Loeffler worked for Mr. Murphy he did attend the meetings quite often and tried to work with the Zoning Board and help- them, but he was still working for Mr. Murphy. Mr. Schilling asked Mr. Wolfe if he was satisfied that all the requirements for the Pelican -Cove subdivision had been. met. Mrs. Wolfe went through them again. The existing and proposed topographical two foot contour has been done. The lot and project boundary dimensions are on the subdivision as you can see them. The legal description is on the front page. Mr. Schilling asked about the off street parking. Mr. Wolfe said'off street parking will have to be Tracts one and two. Mr. Schilling said there was nothing in the plans they had that defines any buildings on Tract two. Mr. Wolfe said that they do not usually show the building plans because no one knows for sure what the customer wants. They show a tentative plan, like the one shown on the preliminary plans. The site plan shows the sewer and water leve1s and how the hookups will be. There should be a radius curve on the intersection. Mr. Schilling asked if the sewer system was going to pump up to U.S. 1 and tie into the main system there. Mr. Kuyk said that unfortunately yes, they could not get easements directly across. 3 l- " , (.) o Mr. Schilling asked if there w.ould be one lift station. Mr. Kuyk said that there would be one lift station with two pumps which will be more than sufficient; The pumps will be one horse power, three phase that pump approximately 60 gallons per minute and the flow from the subdivision 'should average no more than about 27 gallons. Mr. Schilling asked how many dwellings there would be in the entire development. Mr. Inkelbarger said he believed it was a maximum of 135. Mr. Wolfe asked if they ~ere bringing up the floor height on the retention pond. He was told that they were. The Boards discussed the retention of ground water. Mr. Kuyk said he assumed the City will take care of the retention pond. This retention pond is in compliance with the proposed storm water laws. There will be an 18" corrugated metal pipe to connect the retention basin. There will be fire hydrants in the development and a second road at the southern edge of the development. Mr. . Sc h.i1Ti ng men t ion e d the fa c t t hat 1 0 cat ion san d dim ens ion s 0 f the buildings were missing. There are dimensions for individual _duplex homes but no locations. He also wanted to know if there were plans to use the building, presently under construction, on Tract one.. Mr. Inkelbarger said that was commercial area and the building could be used for offices. Mr. Schilling requested _~that the Planning Board be furnished with dimensions for buildings. He also discussed parking areas. He also asked about common open space areas and their treatment. Mr. Diamond said that 60% ~as to be open space. Mr. Schilling asked about screened garbage areas. Mr. Ink e 1 bar g e r s aid t hat the y we r e con sid e r i n g us i n g the -s am e L type of setup that is presently in use at Fairgreens. Mr. Schilling suggested that the Chairman of the Zoning Board meet with him and the Mayor to advise the Mayor-that this ordinance has not been followed (as to steps 'prior to issuing permits) and that we take.strong exception to ~his. ObviousJ~_ we do not want to ignore ~his ordinance so we must see that it is enforced. He asked that any other members of either Board,who wished to do so, join them. Mr. Wolfe said he would not be able to attend a meeting but would send a representative from the Zoning Board. There were no further discussions on the Pelican Cove subdivision. Mr. Wolfe called for a motion and a vote. Mr. Nichols made a motion that the Zoning Board accept the Pelican Cove Subdivision. Mr. Siciliano seconded the motion., The motion CARRIED 6-0. Mr. Yackel made a motion that the Planning Board approve the Pelican Cove subdivision. Mrs. Webber seconded the'motion. Mr. Schilling said that he believed he understood what the contractor has in mind and if they maintain that attitude that the City will benefit from this development. They have tried to establish that there are certain basic requirements in the ordinance and that the Boards would like to see them observed. He also suggested that in the future if there are other developments of a similar nature, that we make sure a copy of the requirements is given to the contractor and signed for and that those requirements be completely conformed to before any building permits are issued. 4 r' I " . t ":". o o Mr. Schilling asked if there were any more questions concerning this subdivision. Mr. Yackel made a motion that the Planning Board approve the plans for the Pelican Cove Subdivision. Mrs. Webber seconded the motion. The motion CARRIED 7-0. . There was no further business before the Boards. The meeting was adjourned. Minutes submitted by: Nancy Blazi . 5