09-27-1978 Special Joint w/ Planning Board
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CITY OF EDGEWATER
SPECIAL JOINT MEETING OF ZONING BOARD AND PLANNING BOARD
September 27, 1978
The Zoning Board had requested a special joint meeting to discuss
the site plans for the Pelican Cove subdivision. - lhe plans must
be approved by both the Zoning and Pl~nning Boards.
Chairman Robert Wolfe, Zoning Board, called the meeting to order
at 7:30 P.M. in the City Planner's Office.
ROLL CALL
Zoning Board:
Robert Wolfe
James Engle
David Wiggins
Richard Bartholomew
James Mackie
William Nichols
Sebastian Siciliano
Present
Present
Absent
Present
Present
Present
Present
Planning Board:
Arthur Schilling
-Edwa rd Y ac ke 1
Betty Still
Steve Hardock
Ryta Webber
Marie Nichols
Jacob Lodico
William Grollemund
Harold Read, Jr.
Daniel Nolan
George Ladhoff
Also Present:
Richard Diamond, City Planner
Don Kuyk, Director of Public Works
Mr. Ink e 1 b ~r g e r - R e pre s e n tat i v e 0 f Bel m 0 ntH 0 m e s, b u i 1 d e r s
Mr. Asting
Mr. Opal
Mr. Ledbetter
Mr. Glaser
Present
-Present
Excused
Absent
Present
Absent
Present
Present
Present
Absent
Present
Chairman Wolfe explained that the Pelican Cove subdivision was
to be located between Friendly Shores and Pyramid Village. The
Zoning Board had approved a zoning change to R-4.
Mr. Wolfe asked Mr. Kuyk if he had received the recommendations
from Briley, wiid.
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Mr. Kuyk said that he had received their recommendations and that
we have made many more changes than what were in the letter.
Mr. Schilling, Chairman of the Planning Board, said that this was
the first time the Planning Board had seen these plans. He added
that under section 715.02, 'Site Approval Plan, the site plan
must be approved by the Zoning and Planning Buards prior to the
issuance of a building permit. _He noticed that construction has
started in the area called Tract One. He wondered if a permit
had "been issued for that site and- if so, why was a permit issued
before approval was given.
Mr. Diamond said that the Building Inspector was out of town
and so tBey could not get an answer to this question.
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Mr. Mackie asked Mr. Inkelbargar if they had started construction
on the project.
Mr. Inkelbargar said that this building was for an office. He had
a permit.
Mr. Schilling said that the permit was not legal until approval
had been given for the site plan. He wanted to know how a
permit could have been issued before site approval. There is
also nothing on the site arrangement on Tract One tnat defines
any building on that tract whatsoever and the fourth requirement
of Section 715.02 is the location and dimensions of all buildings,
structures and improvements.
Mr. Wolfe said that the Building Inspector has a contract with the
City, he is not a City employee but is in business for himself.
The more building permits he issues, the more money he makes. He
can go ahead and give someone a building permit under the State
law but he cannot give them a certificate of occupation until the
subdivision is approved and the sewer and water is in.
Mr. Schilling said that if that is true, this isa meaningless
ordinance.
Mr. Inkelbargar said they tried to get a building permit to put
up an office in that area and they could not get a permit so they
bought a trailer to use as an office.
Mr. Grollemund said that all the site pl~ns should be available to
the boards prior to the issuance of any permits.
Mr. Schilling pointed out to Mr. Inkelbargar the steps required
for_ approval of a subdivision. The-preliminary plan they submi-tted
was to the Zoning Board for a Zoning change. The plans submitted
tonight must be approved by both the..Planning 'and Zoning Boards.
This must be don~-prior to ~he issuance of a building permit.
Mr. ~nkelbargar said that the Zoning Board. had approved these plans.
Mr. Wolfe said that was at a workshop meeting and that it is. necessary
to give 24 hour notice-before the Boards can hold a public meeting.
The plans have to be reviewed again for approval -by both. Boards.
Mr. Ladhoff suggested that the Boards -have whoever issued the
building permit cited, so that it does not happen again.
Mr. Schilling suggested that a procedure be established from now on
that any building permits that are involved in a-new site arrangement
such as this. should have written.-approval from both th-e Planning
and Zoning Boards in the hands of whoever issues the permits before
he is authorized to issue a permit. If we are going to have a rule
we should have it otherwise we might just as well forget it.
Mr. Wolfe said that they could send a mem~ to the City and hope
somebody reads it.
Mr. Lodico asked who these memo went to in the City.
Mr. Wolfe said that they went to whoever handles the Council's business.
He assumes it goes to the City Clerk and she hands it out to the
Council.
Mr. Lodico said that there were a lot of times when he was on the
Council that they never got any of those mem?s.
Mrs. Webber said that when she was on the Zoning Board they addressed
their memos to the Mayor and City Council and she knows positively
it never reached them.
Mr. Lodico asked who was holding these memos back.
Mrs. Webber said that one person was, the City Clerk.
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Mr. Wolfe said that he did not know what the Boards could do
about this. They were not paid and they had no powers.
Mr. Lodico said that he felt the Boards were for the good of
the people of the town.
Mr. Mackie said that no one in this- City cares what the Boards
do, they are just a cog in the wheel because we have to be there.
Mr. Wolfe said that maybe if both the Boards send memos maybe
someone wi 11 read them.
Mr. Ladhoff said that certainly there were enough people-on
- these Boards to make some impression. If we back off it does
not solve the problem it only makes it worse.
Mr. Lodico said that the people should get faster and better
service and if it being held up over there then someone should
wake them up.
Mr. Ladhoff said that it had been said we're only a cog in the
wheel operating for them, but they are servants of the people
and all we want to do is to negotiate for-the people. The
Board members volunteer their time, sometimes as often as 3 or
4 times a week and if there is no attention paid to what we do
we all back off and things will fall apart.
Mrs. Webber suggested that we send a note to the Mayor and City
Council and suggest that it be read at the Council Meeting. This
is the only way we can be sure that it is read.
Mr-. Schilling said that-all these rules were held to be desirable
and they should be observed or we should delete them from the
requirements.
M r._ W 01 f e sa i d t hat the s e r u 1 e s -we r e put i n for sit e a p pro val
to protect the people and the City.
Mr. Lodico asked if Mr. Murphy or his assistant had attended any
of the meetings.
Mr. Wolfe said that when Mr. Loeffler worked for Mr. Murphy he
did attend the meetings quite often and tried to work with the
Zoning Board and help- them, but he was still working for Mr.
Murphy.
Mr. Schilling asked Mr. Wolfe if he was satisfied that all the
requirements for the Pelican -Cove subdivision had been. met.
Mrs. Wolfe went through them again. The existing and proposed
topographical two foot contour has been done. The lot and
project boundary dimensions are on the subdivision as you can see
them. The legal description is on the front page.
Mr. Schilling asked about the off street parking.
Mr. Wolfe said'off street parking will have to be Tracts one and two.
Mr. Schilling said there was nothing in the plans they had that
defines any buildings on Tract two.
Mr. Wolfe said that they do not usually show the building plans
because no one knows for sure what the customer wants. They show
a tentative plan, like the one shown on the preliminary plans.
The site plan shows the sewer and water leve1s and how the hookups
will be. There should be a radius curve on the intersection.
Mr. Schilling asked if the sewer system was going to pump up to
U.S. 1 and tie into the main system there.
Mr. Kuyk said that unfortunately yes, they could not get easements
directly across.
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Mr. Schilling asked if there w.ould be one lift station.
Mr. Kuyk said that there would be one lift station with two
pumps which will be more than sufficient; The pumps will be
one horse power, three phase that pump approximately 60 gallons
per minute and the flow from the subdivision 'should average no
more than about 27 gallons.
Mr. Schilling asked how many dwellings there would be in the
entire development.
Mr. Inkelbarger said he believed it was a maximum of 135.
Mr. Wolfe asked if they ~ere bringing up the floor height on the
retention pond. He was told that they were.
The Boards discussed the retention of ground water. Mr. Kuyk said
he assumed the City will take care of the retention pond. This
retention pond is in compliance with the proposed storm water laws.
There will be an 18" corrugated metal pipe to connect the retention
basin.
There will be fire hydrants in the development and a second road
at the southern edge of the development.
Mr. . Sc h.i1Ti ng men t ion e d the fa c t t hat 1 0 cat ion san d dim ens ion s 0 f
the buildings were missing. There are dimensions for individual
_duplex homes but no locations. He also wanted to know if there
were plans to use the building, presently under construction, on
Tract one..
Mr. Inkelbarger said that was commercial area and the building
could be used for offices.
Mr. Schilling requested _~that the Planning Board be furnished
with dimensions for buildings. He also discussed parking areas.
He also asked about common open space areas and their treatment.
Mr. Diamond said that 60% ~as to be open space.
Mr. Schilling asked about screened garbage areas.
Mr. Ink e 1 bar g e r s aid t hat the y we r e con sid e r i n g us i n g the -s am e L
type of setup that is presently in use at Fairgreens.
Mr. Schilling suggested that the Chairman of the Zoning Board
meet with him and the Mayor to advise the Mayor-that this ordinance
has not been followed (as to steps 'prior to issuing permits) and
that we take.strong exception to ~his. ObviousJ~_ we do not want
to ignore ~his ordinance so we must see that it is enforced. He
asked that any other members of either Board,who wished to do so,
join them.
Mr. Wolfe said he would not be able to attend a meeting but would
send a representative from the Zoning Board.
There were no further discussions on the Pelican Cove subdivision.
Mr. Wolfe called for a motion and a vote.
Mr. Nichols made a motion that the Zoning Board accept the Pelican
Cove Subdivision. Mr. Siciliano seconded the motion., The motion
CARRIED 6-0.
Mr. Yackel made a motion that the Planning Board approve the Pelican
Cove subdivision. Mrs. Webber seconded the'motion.
Mr. Schilling said that he believed he understood what the contractor
has in mind and if they maintain that attitude that the City will
benefit from this development. They have tried to establish that
there are certain basic requirements in the ordinance and that the
Boards would like to see them observed. He also suggested that in
the future if there are other developments of a similar nature, that
we make sure a copy of the requirements is given to the contractor
and signed for and that those requirements be completely conformed to
before any building permits are issued.
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Mr. Schilling asked if there were any more questions concerning
this subdivision.
Mr. Yackel made a motion that the Planning Board approve the
plans for the Pelican Cove Subdivision. Mrs. Webber seconded
the motion. The motion CARRIED 7-0. .
There was no further business before the Boards.
The meeting was adjourned.
Minutes submitted by:
Nancy Blazi
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