07-27-1987
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CITY OF EDGEWATER
SELF-INSURANCE COMMITTEE
JULY 27, 1987
MINUTES
Mr. Gary Schad, Insurance Agent, and City Clerk/Administrator
Connie Martinez, members of the Self-Insurance Committee were
present. Also of the Committee, City Attorney Alvarez (arriving
later); Coast Guard Representatives Tim Watson and Lt. Bush;
David Garrett, Recreation Director/Buildings & Grounds Mainten-
ance Superintendent; and Jack Corder, Assistant Recreation
Director/Buildings & Grounds Maintenance Superintendent.
Mr. Schad announced at 2:00 PM that there would be a slight
delay to await the arrival of City Attorney Alvarez.
City Attorney Alvarez arrived at 2:10 P.M.
City Attorney Alvarez stated the Coast Guard and Marine Patrol
had been invited to this meeting to discuss swimming at Menard-
May Park. He noted that Mr. Schad had talked with Inspector
Harper of the Marine Patrol and he'd advised someone will be here.
City Attorney Alvarez stated the purpose of this meeting is to
openly discuss the situation which developed at Menard-May Park
regarding swimming and the installation of safety devices at the
swim area. He noted this dates back to the last two years when
the City's insurance carrier conducted an inspection of the entire
City and determined that in order to have swimming in the park,
the City should install safety devices. He added that the City
proceeded to purchase the devices which were buoys about 4 foot
high with reflector bands that mark the swim area. He added
that the devices were installed and the Marine Patrol objected.
Mr. Corder pointed out they were told it was too close to the
channel and a permit was needed to keep them up, so they took
them down at that time. City Attorney Alvarez asked if they
were instructed to file application for permits and Mr. Corder
replied they proceeded with the paper work in filing the permits.
City Clerk Martinez read the June 16th memo from the State of
Florida, Director of Marine Patrol, addressed to David Garrett,
and read the June 2nd letter from Captain T. M. Nutting, U. S.
Coast Guard, to Ms. Bradwell.
City Attorney Alvarez stated the City is faced with a difficult
situation with the understanding that swimming at Menard-May is
an old time tradition and the liability exposure plus the denials
on the other hand. He added that they decided to invite the
representatives to discuss the matter and see if some alternative
or other resolution can be found, short of having to prohibit
swimming outright. He then asked for public comments.
Ruth Taylor said Menard-May is the safest, nicest little beach
and is safe for both children and senior citizens. She noted
that the lifeguards are great and they watch everyone and make
sure there's no danger. She asked that it not be taken from them.
A lady whose name was inaudible protested the time of the meeting
because small children are sleeping, and some people are working
and couldn't be present. She stressed the importance of a desig-
nated area for manatees and for children. She said the boats go
through there much too fast and too close to the manatees.
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City Attorney Alvarez read a memo from Mayor Earl Baugh stating
he was unable to attend the meeting and that he'd like to have
an evening meeting scheduled so that more people could attend.
City Attorney Alvarez pointed out the Coast Guard and Marine
Patrol were contacted in Miami and Tallahassee and Jacksonville
and they're here voluntarily. He suggested they could return
for an evening meeting, noting that it's an imposition on their
time. Mr. Watson said he'd have no problem with that. City
Attorney Alvarez suggested they write to the Marine Patrol to
request them to attend the next meeting since it's a very important
issue to the residents.
Lillian Raffaelo, Yule Tree Drive, asked if the Coast Guard has
to disclose why they're objecting to swimming. City Attorney
Alvarez pointed out the Coast Guard placed a public notice in the
newspaper.
Mr. Watson explained an application submitted to the Coast Guard
to establish this goes into quite a lot of detail and the appli-
cation went to Miami and they put it in the local notice to mariners
regarding no wake zones and for any special interest to mariners.
He said they request people to tell them what they think of it and
the only people who replied were people who were against it.
Ms. Raffaelo asked what grounds they had to deny swimming. Mr.
Watson explained the Coast Guard disapproved it because it was too
close to the channel and now the application will have to be
resubmitted and maybe they could split the difference. He added
they're concerned with the safety of the children. Ms. Raffaelo
asked if there would be objection if they move the buoys in.
Mr. Watson replied another application will have to be submitted
and reviewed. Ms. Raffaelo said they've had swimming at Menard
since the beginning of time, and it's now built up to be a
beautiful park and the Coast Guard says they can't swim there.
Mr. Watson clarified that the Coast Guard did not say they cannot
swim there but that they can't put the buoys there. There was a
discussion between Ms. Raffaelo and Mr. Watson regarding the
distance from the channel for the buoys.
Mr. Watson stated that the Coast Guard did not feel it was safe
to put the limits of the swimming area that close to the channel
and if they resubmit the application, they could split the distance.
Ms. Raffaelo stated that the Chamber of Commerce is spending money
to protect the manatees and the small boats go in and out there.
She asked why people should be denied going into the water because
of a buoy. She said she has arthritis and has to get in the water.
She suggested the buoys be pulled in.
City Attorney Alvarez asked if they can amend the application to
shorten the time to go through the process. Mr. Watson replied that
he doesn't know and it might be better if they submit a new appli-
cation and get more information on it, such as a better position
of where they want the buoys to be.
Ms. Raffaelo asked if a petition by the swimmers would help.
Mr. Watson suggested favorable letters to the Commander in Miami
since only two responses were received. City Clerk Martinez
read into the record the two responses, one dated April 25, 1987,
from Eugene Danaher and the other dated April 28, 1987, from
Clipper Cruise Line.
Josephine Van Heck noted that children go there continuously
and she doesn't know how long the Cruise Line has gone through
but she's not heard of anyone being sucked into the propellers.
She said they need the safety devices to protect from the motor
boats. Mr. Garrett pointed out they need Coast Guard approval to
put up the buoys. Ms. Van Heck asked if the Coast Guard approved
them and Mr. Watson replied no, not in the that location. Ms.
Van Heck noted they swam there last year with buoys and had no
problems. She pointed out how safe the area is, and expressed
her concern for the manatees being protected there.
-2- Self-Insurance Committee Meeting
July 27, 1987
Q
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City Attorney Alvarez explained for the audience that the
City's insurance carrier had said that if they were going to
allow swimming, it has to be with safety equipment and there
had to be life guards, or they'd cancel the policy and it would
be the City's expense out of the taxpayers' pocket if someone
got hurt. He noted that they asked Volusia County to provide
the life guards but they refused so the City budgeted for them
and hired them, trained by the County. He added that the
safety equipment was purchased and the application had to be
submitted, and then the Marine Patrol asked us to remove the
safety equipment. He expressed his hope that representatives
of the Marine Patrol and Coast Guard will attend the next meeting.
He pointed out the duty of the citizens interested in safe
swimming versus unsafe swimming to make the agencies aware of their
feelings. He stated that the City officials cannot allow unsafe
swimming or that will be dereliction of duty that can cause tre-
mendous civil liability. He pointed out the Commander only
received two letters and they were not for it. An unidentified
lady in the audience stated they don't read the mariner's magazine.
City Attorney Alvarez stated that the application will be resub-
mitted with due speed and Mr. Garrett will notify the public
as to the different steps for the necessary public input. He
noted they'll do it as quickly as possible because the City is
in a predicament.
A lady in the audience, not identifying herself, said the beach
is the safest around and the lifeguards are great. She noted it
is safe for the little children and is beautiful. She asked that
it not be taken away. She said her husband was there the day
before he died. She asked where else they can go.
City Attorney Alvarez stated the objective is to make it a safer
place. The unidentified lady said the children don't go as far
as the buoys and the boats shouldn't speed there.
Tom Sheridan, Florida Shores, stated he's very impressed with the
safety attitude. He stated there were three inspections requested
at Menard-May Park and he's been unable to get a copy of any of
these and they were never documented. He noted the potential hazards
that should have been picked up when inspections were made. He
stated there are bacteria in the water, and asked what happens
when shellfish ingest it. He asked why the beach wasn't closed
down for the bacteria in the water. He said ladies with children
have asked why there was not a pedestrian entrance or crossing
and no speeding there. He said if they're going ahead with this,
as a Parks and Recreation Board member at the April 10, 1985,
meeting said, they should be in shape to meet the responsibilities,
and a concession granted now would be hard to revoke later on.
He said they should do it right, or don't do it at all.
City Attorney Alvarez asked for any further comments from the
audience or the Parks and Recreation staff.
A lady in the audience, not identifying herself, asked for an
evening meeting instead of afternoon, or resubmit the application.
City Attorney Alvarez said he recommended that the Committee
resubmit the application, attaching copies of the minutes of
what transpired today and simultaneously reschedule a meeting at
7:00 in the evening to continue this meeting to determine the
status of the new application, with representatives from the
Marine Patrol and the Coast Guard.
Another unidentified lady in the audience asked if they'd write
letters to the Commander in Miami. Mr. Watson gave the address
for correspondence as: Commander (oan), 7th Coast Guard District,
51 SW 1st Avenue, Miami, 33130-1608, with a title, Chief of
Aids to Navigation Branch.
-3- Self-Insurance Committee Meeting
July 27, 1987
Q
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Vice Mayor Neil Asting suggested any letters supporting the
use of the beach should go with the application as an enclosure.
City Clerk Martinez suggested they deliver them to City Hall
to accompany the application. City Attorney Alvarez said a
petition can be done. Mr. Garrett pointed out the application
has to have more details. Mr. Sheridan, from the audience, asked
why it wasn't done right in the first place. Mr. Watson replied
that when you look at it and the channel and how close the buoys
are to it, the concern of these two letters is the potential
hazard and it was not foreseen. He added they got two negative
responses and no positives.
There was a discussion about how long it will take to get this
processed. Mr. Watson noted that he can supply his information
in 24 hours. City Attorney Alvarez suggested it would take about
two weeks. City Clerk Martinez stated they need the letters
from the public this week.
An unidentified lady in the audience asked if they can have any
safety devices in the meantime and Mr. Watson replied there are
some small markers there. City Attorney Alvarez asked if they
can put them closer to shore on a temporary basis without violating
the orders of the C9mmander's office in Miami, subject to the
second application being approved. Mr. Watson replied that regu-
latory buoys at a reduced area would have to be approved from
Miami and he can't give that authority. He noted that it has
to be advertised in the news to mariners. Mr. Watson asked
about the location of the lines and buoys last year, and Mr.
Garrett replied they were just there a short time and then someone
asked them to remove them.
City Attorney Alvarez again asked if there's something to be used
in the meantime because the swimming season ends Labor Day. Mr.
Garrett clarified it's the week-end after Labor Day. City Attorney
Alvarez noted this solution is for next year, but the concern is
also for the remainder of the swimming season this year. He added
they can travel to Miami, if that will help. Mr. Watson replied
that Captain Nutting should be notified because he doesn't have
the authority. City Attorney Avlarez stressed that this matter has
to be given top priority since it's a safety issue and information
could be forthcoming from the Coast Guard in 24 hours.
An unidentified lady in the audience asked if they can make a long
distance telephone call. City Attorney Alvarez replied they might
want to take it to Miami.
An unidentified lady in the audience said a man was in a boat in
the swimming area and Mr. Watson asked if they know where the
swimming area and the channels are.
City Attorney Alvarez asked how often the notice to mariners goes
out and Mr. Watson replied it's weekly. Mr. Watson said they
have to get the information down there and establish a state of
urgency. City Attorney Alvarez said they'll meet in the next
couple of weeks and will have a notice in the newspapers and
posted at the beach. City Clerk Martinez suggested they call
City Hall. An unidentified lady in the audience asked that the
notice at the beach be larger than the one used for this meeting.
City Attorney Alvarez stated that the items that Mr. Sheridan
brought up pertain to safety, but not specifically the swimming,
and they should be brought up at the next self-insurance meeting
or to the Board.
City Attorney then recessed the meeting at 3:01 P.M., until a
date approximately two weeks away at 7:00 P.M.
Minutes submitted by:
Lura Sue Koser
-4- Self-Insurance Committee Meeting
July 27, 1987