04-18-2005 - Regular
'-
....,
CITY
COUNCIL OF EDGEWATER
REGULAR MEETING
APRIL 18, 2005
7:00 P.M.
COMMUNITY CENTER
MINUTES
1. CALL TO ORDER
Vice Mayor Lichter called the Regular Meeting to order at 7:00
p.m. in the Community Center.
ROLL CALL
Mayor Donald Schmidt
Councilman James Brown
Councilman Dennis Vincenzi
Councilwoman Harriet Rhodes
Vice Mayor Judith Lichter
City Manager Kenneth Hooper
City Clerk Susan Wadsworth
Paralegal Robin Matusick
Excused
Present
Present
Present
Present
Present
Present
Present
INVOCATION, PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE
There was a silent invocation and pledge of allegiance to the
Flag.
2. APPROVAL OF MINUTES
There were no minutes to be approved at this time.
3. PRESENTATIONS/PROCLAMATIONS/PLAQUES/CERTIFICATES/DONATIONS
A. Mayor proclaiming April 17-23, 2005 as Volunteer Week
Vice Mayor Lichter read a proclamation declaring the week of
April 17 - 23 as Volunteer Week and presented it to City Clerk
Wadsworth.
4. CITIZEN COMMENTS
Vice Mayor Lichter stated if anyone was present regarding 2203 S.
Ridgewood Avenue, it would be on the agenda in two weeks.
The following citizens spoke:
....,
..""
Andy Anderson, Pine Tree Drive, stated there are a number of City
satellite offices around. City Manager Hooper informed him the
Parks Department is about the only satellite office. Mr.
Anderson questioned if that property is owned by the City. City
Manager Hooper informed him yes. Mr. Anderson didn't realize the
City wasn't paying rent and felt the City could have saved money
if they were paying rent. He wasn't sure how it was set up.
~ke Visconti, 316 Pine Breeze Drive, commented on the issue
regarding the purchase of Regions Bank for the use of City Hall.
He feels the people of Edgewater need and expect to be informed
in order to best serve the community. He read an article from
the newspaper regarding the City leasing Regions Bank for 60
months and after that time the City will have purchased the bank
at a cost of $2.4 million plus $10. In the past he has requested
that City Manager Hooper search and resolve the issue leaving no
stone unturned. He believes Mr. Card and Mr. Ross have turned
the right stone finding a way to resolve this issue. He is in
favor of the proposal to lease Regions Bank. He feels this
proposal will save the taxpayers over $5 million.
Vice Mayor Lichter informed Mr. Visconti that City Manager Hooper
would be presenting a report under his report at the end of the
meeting. She feels it would be appropriate to take this item out
of order and let City Manager Hooper give his report now. It was
the consensus of Council to allow City Manager Hooper to do so.
City Manager Hooper spoke of a faxed offer for a purchase lease
agreement that came to the City a couple of weeks ago. That week
they contacted the bank and clarified some information. They
sent the proposal to City Attorney Paul Rosenthal and he has had
discussions with him. He commented on the letter describing the
offer from the bank as being a purchase agreement from the bank.
The letter defines that the proposed lease is not a lease at all
and is not consistent or compliant with the Charter. This has
been put on the ballot twice and has been voted down about the
same number both times. City Attorney Rosenthal and City Manager
Hooper recommended to Council if they were going ,to go down this
endeavor that this go back to the ballot and put it on as a
single issue and clearly define how much it costs. He took the
banks proposal and put it in terms of dollars, with a total cost
over a five-year period of $2.4 million, not much different than
the $2.2 million they started with, a 9.7% increase.
Page -2-
Council Regular Meeting
April 18, 2005
'-'"
...,
City Manager Hooper commented on the studies that were done when
they originally looked at the bank building. There was a very
itemized list of improvements. He took the report that was done
in 2003 and updated it. He spoke of some of the costs being
planned over a five-year period. He spoke of there being some
structural issues due to the building having some hurricane
issues. There is about $200,000 worth of immediate fix up to
make it more hurricane resistant. In years two through five,
there is about $350,000. They discussed they could work out of
the current Council chamber for a period of time and about
$225,000 to be spent over the next five years to remodel the
interior lower portion of the bank. He commented on there being
no generators and the need for a power upgrade. He broke down
the costs that include the alarm system, heating, plumbing, air
conditioning, and furniture. About $670,000 would have to be
spent to move into it and about $925,000 over the next five
years. The four year average is about $231,000 per year on top
of the amount would take for the lease. He then went over the
projected costs for year one and years two through five. It
averages out to about $4.1 million over five years with an
average annual cost of about $820,000.
City Manager Hooper then spoke about taxes and one mill producing
$639,000. The dollar figure of $820,000 is the equivalent of
about 1.3 mills. He can't, with a clear conscience, tell them
they could move over and not face a tax increase. The money has
to come from somewhere. They could either delete other projects,
parks, police, fire, cutbacks major to equal 1.31 mills or it
goes back onto the ballot with the .41 mills over thirty years.
Vice Mayor Lichter asked if the bank manager considered a longer
period to make this manageable for the City. City Manager Hooper
stated he e-mailed him last week and he called him before they
left to go to Volusia Days and he hasn't gotten a return call.
Vice Mayor Lichter stated maybe they shouldn't make any decision
and put this on two weeks from now. City Manager Hooper stated
this is the kind of information that needs to be available at the
public meeting. Right now, they are getting about 300 calls and
everybody says they are for it because they don't know how much
it truly costs. Once they see that it has major cost
implications, he thinks the numbers are different after that.
Page -3-
Council Regular Meeting
April 18, 2005
~
....,
Pat Card, 3019 Willow Oak Drive, stated he and City Manager
Hooper talked two and a half weeks ago and questioned what
happened with the City Attorney. City Manager Hooper stated he
studied the lease and said that in order for it to be a lease, it
had to be something you could back out of at any point. The five
years, once he looked at the average cap rate, the average rate
for local leases was somewhere about twelve to fifteen. This is
probably four or five times that amount. When they talked a
couple of weeks ago, he hadn't seen anything at that point.
Mr. Card stated their original discussion was different. It was
$20,000 per month for 60 months with a $200,000 end purchase. If
they backed out of the agreement, they had no recourse and
received no money. He asked if that is a lease-purchase
arrangement. City Manager Hooper stated according to City
Attorney Rosenthal that is closer. Mr. Card then questioned
there being a possibility that a lease-purchase agreement could
be drafted if the terms were amenable to both the City and the
bank. City Manager Hooper explained it has to be closer to what
a real lease would look like.
Mr. Card stated the last time he spoke to the bank, they were
amenable and the last time he and City Manager Hooper spoke after
he spoke with the real estate guy, he had brushed the possibility
of a longer term by him and he did not shut it down immediately
at that point. City Manager Hooper stated he proposed a fifteen-
year true lease and said we were interested in that. He informed
City Manager Hooper he had to take it back to the bank because he
had a group to report to and we haven't heard back.
Mr. Card asked if there is anything he can do with the bank to
help City Manager Hooper. City Manager Hooper stated to convince
them fifteen years is good. Mr. Card stated at fifteen years
what percentage would the City Attorney require at the end for a
purchase. City Manager Hooper stated he didn't know that yet.
Mr. Card stated if they can come to some amenable agreement, is
it still doable. City Manager Hooper stated if it comes to
fifteen years, he feels they are closer to it. He thinks what he
really has to describe is it is not free and means taxes will
have to be moved around or there are trade-offs.
Vice Mayor Lichter felt Mr. Card and City Manager Hooper should
talk. Mr. Card stated they will talk but he wants to make sure
this is in the Sunshine too because they presented this as a last
ditch effort and he doesn't want to pass this up without making
sure everyone understands what has been said.
Page -4-
Council Regular Meeting
April 18, 2005
.....
...""
Vice Mayor Lichter then questioned the bank sharing the
facilities for the first year. These are things the public
doesn't necessarily know and she feels this is an important
factor. Mr. Card stated this is all stuff that will be
negotiated. He expressed his willingness to help City Manager
Hooper with the negotiations.
Bud Tillison, 2705 Sabal Palm Drive, asked why this particular
building. He suggested the City buy land and build the building
the City wants to start with. Is anybody going to be satisfied
with that building. Mr. Tillison thought it would be $7 million
for Regions Bank. City Manager Hooper clarified the cost. Mr.
Tillison still thinks the way to go is to buy the land and put in
a new building that the City will be satisfied with right from
the start. If that is presented straight forward to the public,
he feels it has a chance of going.
Councilman Brown questioned the cost to build a building from
scratch. City Manager Hooper informed him it would depend on the
cost of the property. u.s. #1 frontage is somewhere in the $7
million to $8 million range.
Councilwoman Lichter spoke of owning the current site and this
being a thought. She feels they don't have all the answers to
this yet. She feels the public voted twice and she refused to
believe that they did not totally understand. She spoke of being
at the New Smyrna Library during early voting going over all the
referendum items.
Mr. Card stated as you can see many people in this City do not
have a clue about what she just said and what was said to them.
They didn't understand what was said, right here, right now,
tonight. He questioned what a new building might cost five years
from now. He estimated a 23% increase per year in construction
costs.
Andv Anderson, Pine Tree Drive, asked what the figures are to go
up a couple of stories on the existing City Hall. City Manager
Hooper stated they have some preliminary numbers of $1 million to
add a second floor over a portion of it and some repairs to the
outside. He spoke of other issues such as inadequate parking.
It's not a simple answer of telling you you can add a second
floor. There are still many costs that go with that. This
building doesn't meet any kinds of codes and if inspected would
probably fail.
Page -5-
Council Regular Meeting
April 18, 2005
....,.
..."
5. CITY COUNCIL REPORTS
Councilman Brown thanked all of our volunteers. They have done
such a spectacular job for our City. If there is anyone
interested in serving the City on any boards, they need to
contact City Clerk Wadsworth.
Councilman Vincenzi feels the only person to give them accurate
figures would be City Manager Hooper. He doesn't mind waiting
for his report to get accurate figures to see what it is really
going to cost. He also wants to see what the City Attorney
thinks. He is all in favor of getting the bank building and
recommended people vote for it. He won't vote for it if it goes
in conflict with the Charter. If there can be some kind of deal
worked out where it is legally not an increase in debt on the
City, he would be all for it. Otherwise he doesn't think it is
something he would support.
Councilwoman Rhodes had nothing at this time.
Vice Mayor Lichter reported on Volusia Days in Tallahassee. They
managed to meet all of the Volusia County legislators with some
of the immediate City's goals and objectives. She also went
representing WAV with specific bills she was aware were up there
to try and divide the money between the State, st. John's and the
cities for the projects that will face us in the future. We have
ten legislators that have part of Volusia County. We have four
state senators and we have six house of representative people.
Only two of these live in Volusia County. This was a more than
worthwhile experience.
6. PUBLIC HEARINGS, ORDINANCE AND RESOLUTIONS
A. 1st Reading, Ord. No. 2005-0-08, Targator Partners, LLC
requesting an amendment to the Official Future Land Use
Map from Commercial to High Density Residential for
2.67~ acres of property located on the southeast corner
of Falcon Avenue
B. 1st Reading, Ord. No. 2005-0-09, Targator Partners, LLC
requesting an amendment to the Official Zoning Map from
B-3 (Highway Commercial) to RPUD (Residential Planned
Unit Development) for 2.67~ acres of property located
on the southeast corner of Falcon Avenue
Paralegal Matusick read Ord. 2005-0-08 and Ord. 2005-0-09 into
the record.
Page -6-
Council Regular Meeting
April 18, 2005
'-"
....."
City Manager Hooper made a staff presentation regarding Items 6A
and 6B.
Vice Mayor Lichter asked in high density residential, how high is
the height buildings can be. City Manager Hooper stated as far
as the height you aren't describing that. It is between eight
and twelve units per acre. This is 8.4 units per acre.
Councilman Vincenzi asked if we have any townhouses in town.
City Manager Hooper stated there are condos on Riverside south of
where he lives. The only difference is with the condominium the
dirt underneath is owned by the association. The townhouse is
simple ownership of the property.
Councilman Vincenzi stated he doesn't particularly like the
higher density but this is something different. We have
something similar in town with condo units and he would be
willing to give it a shot and see how it works out.
Due to there being no comments, Vice Mayor Lichter opened and
closed the public hearing.
There was a brief discussion regarding where this property is
located.
CounciLman Brown moved to approve Ord. 2005-0-08, Taraator
Partners, LLC reauestina an amendment to the Official FUture Land
Use Map from Commercial to Hiah Density Residential for 2.67+
acres of property located on the southeast corner of Falcon
Avenue, second by Councilman Vincenzi.
The MOTION CARRIED 4-0.
City Manager Hooper made a staff presentation regarding Item B.
Due to there being no comments, Vice Mayor Lichter opened and
closed the public hearing.
CounciLman Vincenzi moved to approve Ord. 2005-0-09, Taraator
Partners, LLC reauestina an amendment to the Official Zonina Map
from B-3 (Hiahway Commercial) to RPUD (Residential Planned Unit
Development) for 2.67+ acres of property located on the southeast
corner of Falcon Avenue second by Councilwoman Rhodes.
The MOTION CARRIED 4-0.
Page -7-
Council Regular Meeting
April 18, 2005
.....
....,
C. 1st Reading, Ord. No. 2005-0-10, Scott R. Tobin, agent
for Mid Florida Investments, LLC, requesting annexation
of 30.01~ acres of property located east of USl and
north of Jones Fish Camp Road
Paralegal Matusick read Ord. 2005-0-10 into the record.
City Manager Hooper made a staff presentation.
Vice Mayor Lichter asked City Manager Hooper to show her where
the property is contiguous to the City, which he did at this
time.
Due to there being no comments, Vice Mayor Lichter opened and
closed the public hearing.
Councilwoman Rhodes moved to approve Ord. 2005-0-10, Scott R.
Tobin, aaent for Mid Florida Investments, LLC, reauestina
annexation of 30.01+ acres of property located east of US1 and
north of Jones Fish Camp Road, second bv Councilman Vincenzi.
The MOTION CARRIED 4-0.
D. 1st Reading, Ord. No. 2005-0-11, Rodney Jones, agent
for A.S.D. Properties Management, LLC, requesting
annexation of 100.66~ acres of property located east of
Old Mission Road and north of Mission Oaks Condominium
Paralegal Matusick read Ord. 2005-0-11 into the record.
City Manager Hooper made a staff presentation.
Councilman Vincenzi stated it would be nice to annex that in but
he has issues with the proposed use being manufactured/mobile
home park. He feels there is a big difference between
manufactured home developments and mobile home parks. He doesn't
see any reason to promote new mobile home development. For that
reason he wouldn't like to annex this in. He feels this goes
against the principles of development that people on the Council
are trying to promote.
Vice Mayor Lichter questioned if this can be done. We have
certain properties in the City that can not be rebuilt and they
are more in the line of trailers. The manufactured homes meet
different requirements since homestead.
Page -8-
Council Regular Meeting
April 18, 2005
........
..."",
City Manager Hooper stated the question before Council is
annexing that parcel. The property owner has described that the
manufactured/mobile home park is his goal. He stated what
Councilman Vincenzi is describing is he isn't interested in
annexing it therefore you wouldn't allow the building of it.
Councilman Vincenzi stated he isn't interested in annexing it if
that is going to be the use. In the County it could be developed
as a mobile home park. The issue of why it hasn't been, is more
than likely the utilities. The County doesn't have any water and
sewer utilities out there. In order for the applicant to be able
to get water and sewer to build a facility, he would either have
to get it from New Smyrna Beach Utilities Commission or
Edgewater, which he thinks is the intent.
Councilman Brown asked if a particular piece of property was
currently a mobile home park. Chief Planner Darren Lear informed
him it is to the south of Mission Oaks. City Manager Hooper
pointed out where he thought mobile home parks exist.
Vice Mayor Lichter asked Mr. Lear to distinguish for her between
a manufactured home park and a mobile home park. Mr. Lear stated
a manufactured home has more standards as far as construction and
the installation than the mobile homes. Manufactured home
subdivision lots are generally fee simple and mobile homes you
are leasing the four walls.
Vice Mayor Lichter asked that the applicant come forth and
explain this a little more for the Council.
Rodnev Jones, 5809 Antigua Drive, Port Orange, stated it will be
a manufactured home park. They would retain the property and
sell the manufactured homes that would be owned by the residents.
He stated this will be a 55+ park that he thinks gives the
opportunity for people over the age of 55 to still own their own
home that is affordable where they could still live on a fixed
income.
Vice Mayor Lichter spoke about Magnolia Village being a very nice
manufactured home park. She also lives in one in Edgewater
Landing. She feels there is some confusion regarding Mobile Home
Park being included in the proposed use designation. City
Manager Hooper further clarified you can sell the property or
rent the land.
Page -9-
Council Regular Meeting
April 18, 2005
....
...",
Councilman Vincenzi stated Edgewater Landing and Hacienda del Rio
both have amenities built into their areas or facilities. He
questioned what kind of development Mr. Jones plans to put here,
manufactured or mobile. Mr. Jones clarified it was manufactured.
Councilman Vincenzi asked about amenities. Mr. Jones confirmed
it was still in the drawing stages as far as that part goes.
Councilman Vincenzi doesn't feel a mobile home park is the right
thing to promote if they want to move forward with development
and quality of life. If it is going to be a manufactured home
development with better living accommodations, still affordable
with some amenities, then he is okay with that.
Vice Mayor Lichter spoke of this being a 55+ park and falling
under HUD as far as having to provide certain health things and
certain ramps as well as other things.
Vice Mayor Lichter stated all they are talking about is if they
are going to annex it in and then it has to go through Planning
and Zoning once they get their plan and then to Council.
Mr. Jones stated whether it is a manufactured home or a mobile
home they both have a hitch, they both get towed in and they both
have axles on them. The difference to him is the quality of the
home. A manufactured home is a much better quality home than a
mobile home. He intends to have this park for the rest of his
life so they would want something with top quality that is going
to last a long time.
Mr. Jones stated they intent to have a very nice park. They have
two industrial parks in Edgewater and they are nice. They like
the City of Edgewater and have worked well with them. That is
one reason they want to be annexed into Edgewater. They could
have went the other way to New Smyrna but they felt Edgewater is
a better place to be and he feels people like Edgewater more than
New Smyrna to live.
Councilman Vincenzi expressed concern with the park going down
hill twenty years from now. Mr. Jones stated in a 55+ park they
usually don't have that problem.
Councilwoman Rhodes questioned it making a difference tax wise
whether it is manufactured or mobile home. City Manager Hooper
stated what make a difference is if it is fee simple owner of the
property. What matters is if the property owner owns the dirt
underneath or whether it is leased.
Page -10-
Council Regular Meeting
April 18, 2005
.....
..."",
Vice Mayor Lichter stated the land owner pays taxes to the tax
assessor. What it makes a difference to is the homeowner. City
Manager Hooper stated and the City. Councilwoman Rhodes stated
if the land is leased the landlord is paying for unimproved
property. Mr. Jones confirmed it is not unimproved, it is
improved property with water, sewer and roads. It would be like
buying a building lot. Councilwoman Rhodes stated you would be
paying for a lot, not a lot with a home on it, which is what
Edgewater Landing pays. If you are going to lease the land, the
City of Edgewater will not realize as much tax revenue from
leased land with a mobile home on it as it would from fee simple
with a manufactured or mobile home. This is not adding a great
deal of tax dollars to us.
Mr. Jones commented on the impact fees they would have to pay for
every time a mobile home would be set up.
Vice Mayor Lichter stated the City has a responsibility to offer
all different types of housing in a community. It is in our plan
to have low income housing, middle income housing and high income
housing. She feels they need to consider the factor of affording
the citizens all types of housing.
Councilman Brown asked about impact fees and if is done per unit
and if it is the same as building a house. City Manager Hooper
explained the impact fees in general are essentially the same.
Vice Mayor Lichter opened the public hearing.
The following citizen spoke:
~ke Visconti, 316 Pine Breeze Drive, asked about looking into
the concept of low income housing. He spoke of what happens to
mobile homes during hurricanes.
Vice Mayor Lichter closed the public hearing.
Councilman Vincenzi stated he would look on this much more
favorably if it was a little better than what is considered a
standard mobile home.
Vice Mayor Lichter stated Mr. Jones informed them they would be
manufactured homes. Since Homestead, they have higher standards.
There were homes in Florida Shores that took the same hits that
her home did.
Page -11-
Council Regular Meeting
April 18, 2005
~
.....,
Councilman Brown moved to approve Ord. 2005-0-11, Rodney Jones,
aaent for A.S.D. Properties Manaaement, LLC, reauestina
annexation of 100.66+ acres of property located east of Old
~ssion Road and north of ~ssion Oaks Condominium, second by
Councilwoman Rhodes.
The MOTION CARRIED 4-0.
E. Public Hearing, Joseph Alison requesting preliminary
plat approval for a 15-unit subdivision located on
5.78~ acres of property located east of FEC Railroad,
west of Palmetto Avenue, north of Knapp Avenue and
south of 10th Street, to be known as Nocatee
City Manager Hooper made a staff presentation.
Councilman Brown stated he has been on Knapp Avenue and he feels
this is a small street and there will be a lot of traffic that
will generate. Will it handle it? City Manager Hooper stated
fifteen homes, not that many trips. You are looking at a fairly
small subdivision.
Councilman Vincenzi commended the developer for doing larger
lots.
Vice Mayor Lichter opened the public hearing.
The following citizen spoke:
Pat Card, 3019 Willow Oak Drive, feels what the people have
planned is a very nice development and it is a great use for a
piece of property that might not otherwise be able to be used
effectively. He thinks Council should consider this one.
Councilman Vincenzi asked if the property around it is vacant.
Mr. Card stated there is a drainage area that runs along one side
of it and on the other side is the railroad. To the south of it
is built up but it is built up about 1950. It is not pretty. If
anything, it might increase the pride people take in the houses
around it.
Councilman Vincenzi feels it would be a great addition.
Councilwoman Rhodes stated the older she gets, the better the
fifty foot lots look.
Page -12-
Council Regular Meeting
April 18, 2005
"-'
...",
Vice Mayor Lichter closed the public hearing.
CounciLman Vincenzi moved to approve the preliminary plat for a
15-unit subdivision located on 5.78+ acres of property located
east of FEC Railroad, west of Palmetto Avenue, north of Knapp
Avenue and south of 10~ street, to be known as Nocatee, second
by Councilwoman Rhodes.
The MOTION CARRIED 4 -0.
There was a five-minute recess at this time. The meeting
recessed at 8:10 p.m. and reconvened at 8:16 p.m.
F. Public Hearing, staff recommending approval and
recordation of Quit-Claim Deeds from Florida Shores of
Volusia County, Inc., Magnuson Properties and Magnuson
Corporation to the City of Edgewater for the six foot
(6') planting buffer strip surrounding Florida Shores
City Manager Hooper made a staff presentation.
Vice Mayor Lichter asked if they do this separately does it cost
each time verses now doing it one time. City Manager Hooper
stated the applicant was paying $500 each time there was a
request to do that. Paralegal Matusick stated once this is done,
the City will vacate and no one will have to apply for
abandonment again.
Due to there being no comments, Vice Mayor Lichter opened and
closed the public hearing.
Councilwoman Rhodes moved to approve the approval and recordation
of Quit-Claim Deeds from Florida Shores of Volusia Countv, Inc.,
.Maanuson Properties and .Maanuson COrPora tion to the Ci tv of
Edaewater for the six foot (6') plantina buffer strip surroundina
Florida Shores, second by CounciLman Brown.
The MOTION CARRIED 4-0.
G. Res. No. 2005-R-07, Judson I. Woods, PA, agent for
Larry and Nancy Carson, requesting an
abandonment/vacation of a six foot (6') planting buffer
along the property located at 2751 Alamanda Drive
Page -13-
Council Regular Meeting
April 18, 2005
.....
....."
Paralegal Matusick read Res. 2005-R-07 into the record.
City Manager Hooper made a staff presentation.
Vice Mayor Lichter asked if the property around this piece of
property is still County. City Manager Hooper pointed out the
County jurisdiction surrounding the property.
Vice Mayor Lichter questioned these surrounding properties coming
into the City. City Manager Hooper stated they have been working
with them.
Vice Mayor Lichter opened the public hearing.
Mark Hall, representing Michael & Jodi Mitchell, who purchased
2751 Alamanda Drive, stated when they purchased this property
they didn't know that the two parcels out front were going to be
subdivided by the Carsons and sold off. They were under the
impression it was one parcel or that it was unbuildable. The
vacation makes it so each of the parcels meet the minimum lot
requirements. Once the clients purchased the property, they
realized the driveway was not within the easement area, which is
in the middle of the property. He and Mr. Woods have worked out
that the driveway, will be placed into the easement area and will
rejoin the rest of the driveway in proper fashion and his clients
will bear the expense of the relocation, including permitting.
The only issue the Mitchell's and the applicants have is over
whether two story houses will be allowed on these two lots that
will be created that they weren't even aware of as being
buildable when they bought the property. All they are requesting
as an issue is that there be a voluntary developer concession to
limit the height to one story. Otherwise, they are not opposing
the request.
Councilman Vincenzi questioned who he was talking about when he
referred to voluntary. Mr. Hall stated the Carson's would
voluntarily agree through Mr. Woods to a covenant being placed on
each of these properties that are being created limiting them to
one story.
Mr. Hall stated they have worked the other issues out. They are
in agreement but they want to have those two lots, which the
Council will be allowing to be created, to be limited to one
story.
Page -14-
Council Regular Meeting
April 18, 2005
~
~
Judson Woods, representing Larry & Nancy Carson, stated the
property has been rezoned and he thinks two stories are allowed
in there and they would just like to keep within the zoning.
They have agreed to relocate the driveway but they would like to
build two stories if the zoning permits it, which it does at the
present time. They aren't going to voluntarily give up the right
to build a two-story home. He stated he thought the Mitchell's
have a two-story home.
Councilman Vincenzi stated personally, he doesn't see how the
City can restrict that either.
Vice Mayor Lichter opened the public hearing.
Jodi Mitchell, 2751 Alamanda Drive, stated their main reason for
purchasing that home was for privacy. The way they are wanting
to do it will be taking away from their privacy.
Councilwoman Rhodes asked the intent when the Carsons' sold them
that property and retained the front property. She asked if they
offered to sell them the whole thing. Ms. Mitchell stated that
was an option but they were under the understanding that if they
didn't, the property in that area would allow for one home, not
two smaller homes. They were under the understanding the
property could be sold, but not as two lots.
Councilwoman Rhodes then questioned one home being built as a
two-story home. Ms. Mitchell stated they were not aware of that.
If they move their road, that takes away their privacy where the
road initially is. Councilwoman Rhodes stated your road is
currently going through their property. Ms. Mitchell feels this
should have been taken care of before the property was even sold.
They got caught up in something that shouldn't have been. They
already sold one of the other lots that their driveway is running
through and those people probably aren't aware of the issues.
Mr. Hall stated Ms. Mitchell felt wronged not so much by the City
but by the Carsons. They have worked everything out and the only
issue is the question of whether the City is going to condition
their vacation of the planting easement by limiting the height to
one story. If they do, fine. If they don't, they have settled
the case otherwise.
Page -15-
Council Regular Meeting
April 18, 2005
'-'
....,,;
Vice Mayor Lichter asked Mr. Lear if there is more than one house
now. Is there more than three in total planned. Mr. Lear stated
they have one house on their property. After the minor lot split
application process, there will be two building lots towards the
front. Vice Mayor Lichter spoke about flood area there. Mr.
Lear stated the two new lots are in Flood Zone X which is outside
the 500 year flood plain. He believed the Mitchell's home was
also in Flood Zone X.
Vice Mayor Lichter stated if they didn't do something with the
buffer, one house could be built there. Mr. Lear stated it has
been going through the rezoning process for about a year. The
Carson's had applied while they still owned it. Legally it has
been before Council and was approved to rezone to R-2 to have the
minimum lot size in R-2.
Vice Mayor Lichter stated the buyer wasn't aware that they
wouldn't be able to use that road where now there is going to be
a house. Mr. Lear stated they worked out an agreement where they
would realign the driveway. He pointed out where the realignment
would be.
Councilwoman Rhodes feels part of the buffer should be deeded to
the Mitchell's. Mr. Lear agreed. Councilwoman Rhodes feels
whether they abandon this buffer or not, the driveway would have
to be realigned anyway. She questioned if they don't pass this
next phase, will the driveway be realigned. Mr. Lear clarified
the issue they are asking for is a restriction to be placed on it
not to exceed one-story. Councilwoman Rhodes feels it is zoned
for two story and a two-story home whether there be one house or
two should be allowed. Mr. Lear stated there is a twenty-six
feet height in R-2 zoning. City Manager Hooper stated you don't
have a restriction of one or two stories. The way the Code reads
it is twenty-six feet.
CounciLman Vincenzi moved to approve Res. 2005-R-07,
abandonment/vacation of a six foot (6') p~antina buffer a~ona the
property ~ocated at 2751 A~amanda Drive with the fo~~owina
conditions: 1) the owners sha~~ comp~ete app~ication for a minor
~ot sp~it of the oriaina~ parce~ with the City and the Technica~
Review Committee approves the minor ~ot sp~it reauest, second by
Counci~woman Rhodes.
The MOTION CARRIED 3-1. Vice Mayor Lichter voted NO.
Page -16-
Council Regular Meeting
April 18, 2005
~
.....,
7 . BOARD APPOINTMENTS
There were no Board Appointments at this time.
8 . CONSENT AGENDA
There were no items on the Consent Agenda to be discussed at this
time.
9. OTHER BUSINESS
A. Code Enforcement Fines - Mark Hall, P.A., agent for
J.C. and Rosemary Carder, requesting a fine reduction
from Code Enforcement Case #2004-CE-2021A totaling
$4,753
City Manager Hooper made a staff presentation.
Councilwoman Rhodes questioned what the cost of $500 covers.
Fire Chief Barlow stated that is an estimated cost of staff time
as well as the supplies associated with it and filing fees.
Councilwoman Rhodes understands their mission with Code
Enforcement is compliance. On the other hand, what type of
example does it set for those that come behind. She would be
willing to say $2,000.
Vice Mayor Lichter feels it might be an order that they have a
motion and some type of discussion. She would like to see if
they have a motion and a second so they can discuss the issue.
Councilwoman Rhodes moved to reduce the fine from $4,753 to
$2,000, second by Councilman Vincenzi.
Mark Hall, representing J.C. and Rosemary Carder, stated a little
history is in order, remember is it a roof or a marquis sign?
They have an appeal pending at this point. City Manager Hooper
didn't mention as part of the acceptance of the staff
recommendation, Mr. Carder is going to drop his appeal. What has
happened here is there was a fine that is a 47 day fine. The
Code at Section 10-7 talks about the Code Enforcement Board and
the fines that they may impose. He had a difficult talk today of
convincing Mr. Carder to support the recommendation. Back in
February the faces of the sign were taken off but the structures
were not taken down. That was not his doing to put that forward
in a letter to City Manager Hooper February 25, 2005.
Page -17-
Council Regular Meeting
April 18, 2005
.....
....,
Mr. Hall further stated there is a claim to be made that the
signs were removed as of February 17, 2005. At that point he was
required by his client to put forward that a re-inspection should
have been done at that time. Cooler heads prevailed, especially
Rosemary Carder along with her son convinced Mr. Carder to take
down the structure. That is why he sent a letter March 24, 2005
saying that they completely removed the sign and supporting
structure. In looking at the amount of the fine, there are three
factors which are taken into consideration in Section 21-121.04B
of the Code. He then listed these factors. Instead of having a
complaint based system, the City has a patrol based system.
Councilwoman Rhodes is correct that compliance is the touch stone
of any code enforcement action and he has complied. He suggested
council amend the motion to go along with staff's recommendation
but also include an additional condition that City Attorney
Rosenthal and Mr. Hall drop the appeal that is pending. There is
a fair question in your code as to the definition of the roof
signs that needs to be fixed and also the whole question of the
vested rights section. Those are problematic. If they over rule
staff's recommendation and go with the $2,000 fine, he will have
to go back and see what his client is going to do on the appeal,
which is still pending.
City Manager Hooper stated he spoke to Glenn Storch, which
represents the Code Enforcement Board and City Attorney Rosenthal
and clearly he is not concerned about the appeal. This went
before the Code Enforcement and they debated that subject for
quite some time. They ruled that it was a roof sign. Mr. Hall
was in front of Council to ask them if they would be interested
in changing the code. Council said they weren't interested.
There has been quite a bit of amortization schedules given to the
owners. They have had compliance from others so that part he
isn't concerned about.
Councilwoman Rhodes asked if it is going to cost the City $1,500
if they go forward with the appeals process. City Manager Hooper
stated it will be the same as in the past. They will be pushing
for attorney fees. If Council wins, like in the Oak Hill case,
no. If you lose, you will pay some fees.
Councilwoman Rhodes stated she doesn't like fighting with the
citizens of this City nor does she like being blackmailed. She
doesn't like Mr. Hall telling them that they won't sue if they
don't do what they want. Because Mr. Carder is a citizen of this
City, she would be willing to amend her motion.
Page -18-
Council Regular Meeting
April 18, 2005
'-"
....",
Councilwoman Rhodes doesn't want this to be a precedent. We
worked very hard to put teeth into our Code Enforcement and she
doesn't want to send them the message that they will go behind
them and second guess them.
Mr. Hall feels the process is working pretty well.
Councilwoman Rhodes withdrew her motion. Councilman Vincenzi
withdrew his second.
Councilman Brown moved to accept staff's recommendation to lower
the fine to $500 as lona as the appeal is dropped, second bv
Councilman Vincenzi.
The MOTION CARRIED 3-1. Councilwoman Rhodes voted NO.
Vice Mayor Lichter stated when she was on Planning and Zoning she
would make a statement why she voted no on that last case. The
reason she voted no was she knows the property very well. It is
in her district and it is so wet. It is probably the reason she
voted no. She is unsure about three houses on that wet acreage.
10. OFFICER REPORTS
A. City Clerk Wadsworth had nothing at this time.
B. City Attorney
Paralegal Matusick reported to the Council we have two open
cases. One is the forfeiture with Mr. Fowler. They have worked
out a settlement. The City obtained over $36,000 and the City
will retain over $33,000 with him getting a return of $2,500.
When the case is closed, the City will be refunded those dollars.
Paralegal Matusick stated the only other case that is pending at
this time is the County verses the City of Oak Hill and the City
of Edgewater verses Oak Hill. That had been granted in part with
reasonable legal fees. Currently the attorney for Oak Hill has
filed an appeal but they have heard no ruling on that appeal.
C. City Manager
City Manager Hooper stated the meeting they are going to have on
May 2nd, anything further Council wants concerning the bank. He
has given them the summary of the cost and will write a cover
letter.
Page -19-
Council Regular Meeting
April 18, 2005
..,.
....,
City Manager Hooper informed Council City Attorney Rosenthal will
be present for that meeting. If there is anything else Council
wants, he asked that the Council let him know.
Councilwoman Rhodes would like the facts and figures on the 15-
year lease.
Councilman Vincenzi would like the survey on the internet taken
off or revised to include facts. If you don't have facts, he
doesn't see how people can vote and give their opinion.
City Manager Hooper stated he would like to put the raw data on
the internet. Councilman Vincenzi feels it has to be explained
and made clear because he doesn't think people will understand it
by looking at it.
12 . ADJOURNMENT
There being no further business to discuss, Councilwoman Rhodes
moved to adjourn. The meeting adjourned at 8:50 p.m.
Minutes submitted by:
Lisa Bloomer
Page -20-
Council Regular Meeting
April 18, 2005