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05-02-2005 - Regular . . , I ~ ...." CITY COUNCIL OF EDGEWATER REGULAR MEE TING MAY 2, 2005 7:00 P.M. COMMUNITY CENTER MINUTES 1. CALL TO ORDER Mayor Schmidt called the Regular Meeting to order at 7:00 p.m. in the Community Center. ROLL CALL Mayor Donald Schmidt Councilman James Brown Councilman Dennis Vincenzi Councilwoman Harriet Rhodes Councilwoman Judith Lichter City Manager Kenneth Hooper City Clerk Susan Wadsworth Deputy City Clerk Lisa Bloomer Paralegal Robin Matusick Present Present Present Present Present Present Excused Present Present INVOCATION, PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE There was a silent invocation and pledge of allegiance to the Flag. 2. APPROVAL OF MINUTES A. Regular Meeting of March 7, 2005 Councilwoman Lichter moved to approve the ~rch 7, 2005 minutes, second bv Councilwoman Rhodes. The MOTION CARRIED 5-0. B. Regular Meeting of March 21, 2005 Councilwoman Rhodes moved to approve the ~rch 21, 2005 minutes, second bv Councilwoman Lichter. The MOTION CARRIED 5-0. . . . ( '-' ,..., C. Regular Meeting of April 4, 2005 Councilman Brown moved to approve the Apri~ 4, 2005 minutes, second bv Councilman Vincenzi. The MOTION CARRIED 5-0. 3. PRESENTATIONS/PROCLAMATIONS/PLAQUES/CERTIFICATES/OONATIONS There were no presentations at this time. 4. CITIZEN COMMENTS The following citizen spoke: John Cordeiro, 1515 Pine Tree Drive, stated he has been coming to meetings for three years. He is not happy with things that are going on in the City. There is an election coming up and he hopes there are enough people to run so we get a new City government and give the City back to the taxpayers and take it away from the City Manager and the millionaire developers. 5. CITY COUNCIL REPORTS Councilman Brown had nothing at this time. Councilman Vincenzi had nothing at this time. Councilwoman Rhodes had nothing at this time. Councilwoman Lichter questioned if new residents receive information about the Codes when they issue building permits. She spoke of receiving complaints from residents about neighbors moving in and their properties looking like a used car lot. She thought maybe new people don't know. City Manager Hooper spoke of the building permit being issued to the builder. He has a contract with the seller that the City probably never sees until there is a problem. Councilwoman Lichter would like to pass this information on to the builder to give to the occupant or for the realtors to hand out so it wouldn't have to be Code Enforcement going there when the people have no idea what the rules are. Page -2- Council Regular Meeting May 2, 2005 . , '-' -....I city Manager Hooper suggested coming up with one page of the do's and don'ts in Florida Shores and handing it out or attaching it to the permit. Councilwoman Lichter then spoke about WAV and an article in the News Journal where the new director made statements but also where there was some negative talk about leg dragging and not working together. This has happened because of one City and one new manager, Mr. Chisholm, who represents and has been hired by Daytona Beach. He has come from a smaller County where the County is the main place where people live. He has brought up some questions about the interlocal agreement. Before WAV, we had the Water Alliance and worked the same way with them. They are still having every City have one vote which was worked out by a formula of how much money we have to pay. Daytona Beach is proposing that they get a heavy weighted vote because they put in more. She received a letter from the Mayor of Daytona Beach who mentioned a couple of other problems they are having with our interlocal agreement, which they worked out for one year. There are certain cities that don't produce their own water and they have been included because they pay the City extra money for that service and are entitled to a vote. Every City in Volusia County is part of the WAV group except Oak Hill, Pierson and another City to the west. It has been working well, they are meeting their goals and have hired an excellent engineer to implement what the Water Alliance could not. We are in no rush because we have four years to be able to figure out middle funding, which is part of the interlocal agreement. She told the council not to be discouraged by what they are hearing. The group is cooperating and have been highly praised by st. Johns. City Manager Hooper and Director of Environmental Services Terry Wadsworth are very aware of her votes. If she has any problems, she discusses any issues with them. Mayor Schmidt had nothing at this time. 6. PUBLIC HEARINGS, ORDINANCES AND RESOLUTIONS A. Public Hearing, Regions Bank proposed Lease/Purchase Agreement for the property at 1404 S. Ridgewood Avenue for a new City Hall Mayor Schmidt asked for a show of hands of the residents that were present to talk about this topic. Page -3- Council Regular Meeting May 2, 2005 . , ., ...., city Manager Hooper suggested Mayor Schmidt go to Item 6G after they are done with this, due to this also being a popular subject. Mayor Schmidt suggested they go ahead and take care of Item 6G. G. 1st Reading, Ord. No. 2005-0-07, Halstead Resources, Inc. requesting an amendment to the Comprehensive Plan Future Land Use Map to include 2.3~ acres of land located at 2203 S. Ridgewood Avenue as Commercial and High Density Residential (cont. from April 4, 2005, Item 6A) Mayor Schmidt stated they have asked for a continuance. Norrine Peterson, 2201 S. Ridgewood Avenue, asked how many times this can be continued. City Manager Hooper stated as many as Council is going to let them. The choices are with Council. They have a request to continue it. The Council does not have to honor it and can take action on it. They can make it be re-advertised with the applicant paying for it. They could also direct that they won't hear this until the applicant goes back and meets with the adjacent property owners and comes back with some kind of consensus of a support with at least the majority that surround it. You have a very narrow, thin piece of high density commercial surrounded by commercial and medium density. He feels everybody adjacent has made it clear they are unhappy with is being proposed. Councilwoman Rhodes sees no reason to continue this as it is. She has no interest in voting for this. Ms. Peterson asked why they asked for a continuance. City Manager Hooper stated one of the individuals is in Australia and they have asked to continue it. City Manager Hooper stated he believes if that is Council's intent, they could deny the high density without prejudice, which means they could come back and ask for something different. Page -4- Council Regular Meeting May 2, 2005 . . '-" ....., Councilwoman Lichter stated she walked the property with Ms. Peterson and looked it over from both sides. It is extremely narrow and she feels the high density is the wrong density. Medium would be more than enough. He feels more importantly they have safety problems. There is no exit onto u.s. #1. She also feels there is a safety factor with emergency vehicles. She would like to turn down what they have given the Council and would like to be able to send this back to them. Planning and Zoning also turned this down. Mayor Schmidt asked if they have continued this to a time certain before. City Manager Hooper informed him they have from the last time until tonight. This will be the second continuance, which would carry it until June 6th. City Manager Hooper again presented their option. They could either deny what is in front of them, set a date certain that requires the developer to re-advertise what they have in front of them, or just continue it. Councilwoman Lichter asked if they have to pay to re-advertise. City Manager Hooper informed her what has occurred is if when you continue it to a date certain it doesn't get re-advertised. After four months that is kind of stale and people aren't aware it is there. He feels if they are going to hear it in it's present state it needs to be re-advertised so everybody notices when it is going to be. Councilwoman Lichter suggested they be sent back with some kind of direction. Mayor Schmidt agreed. He also has no interest in this project for many different reasons. Something like this doesn't seem to fit on this piece of property. Councilman Brown suggested they give them a time frame to bring this back with a different density. Mayor Schmidt suggested including meeting with adjacent homeowners. Councilwoman Rhodes feels they aren't mutually exclusive. City Manager Hooper stated it is in the County, not in the City and has a County designation as partial commercial and a rural designation. Ms. Peterson stated they annexed into the City. City Manager Hooper stated they annexed but didn't bring a land use. Page -5- Council Regular Meeting May 2, 2005 '-'" ..""" Ms. Peterson stated the neighbors on both sides are not against seeing it developed. If they would work with them, she doesn't feel they would be that hard to get along with. If they kept it at medium density that would be wonderful. Paralegal Matusick read Ord. 2005-0-07 into the record. City Manager Hooper stated the motion they will want to make is denying this, without prejudice, based on it's incompatibility with the surrounding land use. Mayor Schmidt opened the public hearing. Terry Moore, 2201 S. Ridgewood Ave, Friendly Shores, doesn't mind them developing the property in a way that makes sense. The reason people moved to Edgewater is because they liked the way it was and is and once something like that would get built, the thought is what is next. He appreciates the Council looking out for their interest. Mayor Schmidt closed the public hearing. Councilwoman Lichter moved to deny Ord. 2005-0-07 without preiudice and direct the developer to work with the homeowners, in terms of a medium density residential proiect. She added that it is beina denied because it is incompatible with surroundina land use, second by Councilwoman Rhodes. The MOTION CARRIED 5-0. A. Public Hearing, Regions Bank proposed Lease/Purchase Agreement for the property at 1404 S. Ridgewood Avenue for a new City Hall city Manager Hooper informed Council they had a summary of the lease purchase that was offered by the bank included in their packet. There is a letter from the City Attorney defining that lease is really not a lease but a financing mechanism, which would constitute a violation of the Charter. They also had website summaries, which are by far people supporting the concept. There is also a summary of the people that spoke to Liz that by far support the concept. Those numbers are fairly low as far as percentages. There were 300 to 400 responses out of maybe 9,000 to 10,000 people that voted in the last election, which is only 2% of those that voted. Page -6- Council Regular Meeting May 2, 2005 ~ ~ City Manager Hooper further explained they have tried numerous times to contact the bank to update an offer back to what he feels would be a reasonable number, $20,000 to $25,000 per month for a lease payment that is over close to a ten-year time period. Assistant City Manager McBride e-mailed them today and told them they were having the Council meeting and requested a response by three o'clock. The response was he is working on something but there was no something to it. They can go through a great deal of discussion but at this point there is not an offer, there is not an issue he can suggest to Council. Clearly what has been offered as a lease is not a lease. He thinks the proper action is either to direct him to continue to negotiate, say they don't wish to negotiate a lease purchase or some conditions in which they will accept a lease, being the ten-year time period and $20,000 to $25,000 per month. Tonight's purpose was to take public input. Their actions tonight, since they have no contract, or kind of an a step of a two step process, which if it continues will have something brought back before Council. Councilwoman Rhodes stated the response from Regions Bank was that the rate was $25,000 and the term was 84 months. City Manager Hooper stated there is nothing to describe and questioned if there is a balloon payment at the end. Councilwoman Rhodes informed him $400,000. City Manager Hooper stated he didn't say that. They are saying that is what they have been told. Councilwoman Rhodes stated what she gets from it is everything is the same and he corrected what he felt was incorrect. City manager Hooper stated he isn't sure on that one sentence or what he has got there is enough to take any real action. If that is close to what Council wants to see as a lease, he feels this is direction he is looking for. Councilwoman Rhodes stated that brings it to $2.5 million. She wants it back to the $2,413,000. Councilman Vincenzi stated the last deal the bank formally came up with was five years leasing, buy it for $10 at the end. They sent it to the City Attorney and he said this is not a lease, it is a purchase. He questioned the difference between the original proposal and this proposal. It is only extending it for two years. City Manager Hooper stated they are talking about a three year extension. If you went out and leased a building with no strings attached you are probably in the $12 to $15 per square foot range. The $20,000 to $25,000 falls within that range. When City Attorney Rosenthal was describing if it is going to be a lease it has to be based on market conditions today. Page -7- Council Regular Meeting May 2, 2005 'W' ~ City Manager Hooper further explained the time period isn't so significant except you are taking thirty years of payments and compressed them into five years which made the payments five or six times the normal amount you would see and if it you do it with eight years it is two or three times. That compression is working to make that monthly payment higher. Councilman Vincenzi asked City Manager Hooper to explain the difference between a lease and a purchase. City Manager Hooper explained a purchase is an obligation without fail that you are going to buy. If we do not close on the deal, we could be sued for failure on that contract. A lease says we will rent it month to month and can walk away at any time we choose to do that. Councilwoman Lichter stated the voters have voted it down twice by a margin of 1,500. You will have to lease if you are going to do anything. Councilman Vincenzi stated they don't have enough information to do anything. City Manager Hooper asked for direction. Councilwoman Lichter stated when they have a five-year lease, that means these residents that live here now are paying and going to have to for other services that will be cut if they are paying $20,000 or $25,000 and then going to $30,000, they are going to be paying because they will have to raise taxes to have the same services we are providing right now. City Manager Hooper stated they have described the $20,000 would mean an increase in tax and he isn't sure of that. What occurs is the property values in the City go up as we do more development and brings more revenue to the table. Right now they have choices. That additional revenue can lead them to reduce the millage by a half a mill. The Council's goal this year is to again reduce the tax. That extra money will give you choices. You can reduce taxes or put it towards a new building. You can't do both. Councilwoman Lichter then questioned the additional money needed per month to refurbish the building. Councilwoman Rhodes clarified eighty-four months is seven years, not eight. Page -8- Council Regular Meeting May 2, 2005 '-' .~ Mayor Schmidt opened the public hearing. Pat Card, 3019 Willow Oak Drive, stated he met with City Manager Hooper and they discussed what would be acceptable to the City and would satisfy the Attorney in regard to the requirements of a lease. They agreed that $25,000 per month would satisfy the requirements and would be acceptable to City Manager Hooper as a good offer. He and the Finance Director felt that it would require a ten- or fifteen-year lease to get this monthly lease payment. He is happy to report that Friday afternoon at 5:30 p.m. Keith Presley of the Regions Bank got back to him and he is good with the $25,000 a month for seven years with a final purchase price of $400,000. At 4:30 pm. this afternoon he received a proposal to lease premises that specifies those requirements. He passed one out to each Council member. That makes a total cost to the City over the seven years of $2.5 million. City Manager Hooper provided an estimate to upgrade the Regions Bank building at $1.6 million. That is a total cost of $4.1 million for full ownership of the building. The upgrade could be done during year one through seven and could easily be financed over a period of time without violating the Charter requirements for borrowing. All of this can be done directly with Regions and then the City will own the building outright and will be able to sell it or use it. If this City grows to the projected 53,000 people in the next five to seven years, we might need a larger City Hall. The City could then sell the bank building and use the proceeds of the sale towards a new City Hall. This building will be highly desirable as a commercial property if this City grows as projected. Later tonight, they will have the second reading of the annexation of the land where a larger part of that tremendous growth will occur. He feels if they wait and watch this building grow, it will probably grow at about 15% in value per year between now and the end of the seven year period. That will be around $10 million in seven years. He feels they need to go ahead and make a decision to do or not to do this building. They need to make a decision to do or not to do a City Hall. They have been talking about this for five years and it has obviously been identified as a serious problem. He asked the Council to let him and Dave negotiate the deal for them. Apparently the bank is willing to talk to them because they got back to him before the meeting. He stated they would be willing to set the meetings up and bring the City Manager along. Mayor Schmidt asked Mr. Card what time he got the proposal. Mr. Card stated he attempted to download it between 4:30 and 5:00 p.m. At 5:30 on Friday afternoon he got back to him. He left a message with City Manager Hooper at 5:30 on Friday afternoon. Page -9- Council Regular Meeting May 2, 2005 '--' ...., Councilwoman Rhodes stated in two weeks the property value has increased $87,000. Mr. Card stated the reason for that is the value of money for the extra two years. He feels they have to give these people a reasonable rate of return. The rate of return on this is about 2.1%. The rate of return they proposed on the initial proposal was 1.7%. The extra two years that they have their money at risk is what they are talking about. Mr. Card stated City Manager Hooper told him he wanted $25,000 and he got him exactly what he wanted. He told the Council to tell him what they want and he will go and negotiate it for them. He even suggested to City Manager Hooper that we might be in a position to negotiate $25,000 and approximately $600,000 as a last payment. The cost of capital in the market place today is approximately 8% to 10%. These people are giving the City a buy on this building they can't get anywhere else. Mayor Schmidt stated they haven't seen the paper until tonight. Some people feel maybe they aren't the wisest with the tax dollar and they aren't doing what is good for anybody, which he doesn't think any of the Council agree with that. He feels the Regions Bank would make a great City Hall for the next twenty to twenty- five years. He has a problem when they have a paper that says they got this at 1:08 p.m., they have two citizens that are busting their butts, which they appreciate to try and get this building but yet Regions won't talk to us. It makes him uneasy doing this. He wants the deal to happen. There is something about they get this paper and they don't get that paper when they could have sent that paper to them also. When it comes down to it, it is his signature along with the support of these people that has to make this deal work. Councilwoman Lichter stated she knows we need a new City Hall. She pointed out that the voters voted no. She has always loved this spot and had a dream that something could happen here. She spoke of sharing the building with the bank for a year. She feels there are things they don't realize in terms of parking and space and what it takes to make that move. She isn't voting on anything until she has it in her hand and the lawyer is sitting there saying it is alright to do. Councilwoman Rhodes stated she is for this project and will do whatever it takes. She is not going to let anyone take advantage of the City if she can avoid it. She certainly has no problem with Mr. Ross and Mr. Card making the best deal they can make within the guidelines they are constricted by in the City Charter. Page -10- Council Regular Meeting May 2, 2005 '-' ...,,; Councilman Vincenzi has a problem with the bank not negotiating with the City. The only person they should be talking to is City Manager Hooper. He should be the one to be contacted and sent papers in writing with the terms of the lease or finance, not with a private citizen. He stated it has to be legal and affordable and he has to know the terms of it. Councilman Brown feels this is an ideal building for City Hall. He can not, in conscience, vote on it until he knows it is legal. He wants to know exactly what it is going to cost and he wants to tell the citizens right up front what it will cost them to have this building. Dominic Capria, 606 Topside Circle, stated he agrees with the statements that every Councilmember has made. They don't have the facts. He feels this should be postponed and citizen comments should come later on and not tonight. The comments won't mean anything because they don't have all the proposals in. They don't know where they are going yet. Judv Carter, 1623 Royal Palm Drive, stated she bought her home in 1993, when Florida Shores was mostly dirt roads. They didn't much like the idea of a special assessment but they bought into it and are still five years away from finishing that. When she bought her house, lots sold for $6,300. Her property value has tripled. She very much supports having a new City Hall. She knows we need a place with dignity and that says to incoming industry and people that want to live here that we are not Hooterville. Once her assessment for sewer and paving is done, she has no problem helping pay for a new City Hall. She feels the growth we are experiencing is going to generate enough income that they can find a way within our tax structure to make that happen. Jon Cameron, 2121 Pine Tree Drive, stated he moved here a year and a half ago to find out he moved into the highest taxed County in the State of Florida. He then read in print Edgewater was the highest taxed municipality in the County. Last week he took the time to come here and view the property. He was informed he was wrong. This is the second highest community in the County. The taxes are outrageous. The people have spoken and voted no, they do not want the taxes to go up. He was told last week if this goes through the taxes will definitely go up. City Hall is horrible. The people work in cubby holes that are ridiculous. The roof leaks. Why that can't be fixed he doesn't know. Page -11- Council Regular Meeting May 2, 2005 '-" ...., Mr. Cameron questioned how much this building is worth and how much to put into it. There is a real problem but the people have been taxed to death in this community. He commented on the impact fees people are paying that are having homes built. He feels the Regions Bank building is nice but we can't afford it. Carol Ann Stouahton, 2740 Evergreen Drive, stated she used to lived on Pine Tree Drive and her taxes were $1,500. She went through four storms and decided to build a home on two lots. Now she gets her taxes and they are $3,000. She also voted the bank building down twice. She wants to know how many people are clamoring to buy the bank building. If we buy the bank building, how much will it cost to renovate. They can't tell her her taxes won't go up. She lives on social security and can't afford to pay over $3,000. Ms. Stoughton feels the Council isn't figuring on what this is going to cost to renovate the building. She asked if the Police are going to be brought over too. If everyone moves over there, what will they do with this property. She asked if it would be sold. Wouldn't this property go for a lot of money to pay for that building. She spoke to a town worker. The City owns so much land on Mango and Park. She feels the lease is a disguise and doesn't feel the Council has the right to vote on a lease. They voted this down. She will go to every street in this town and tell the people if they think there taxes are going to stay the same, they aren't going to stay the same. When she had her house built, the builder told her $140,000. When it came time to close, it came to $153,000. She thinks City Manager Hooper is well qualified to orchestrate a purchase. If they can't come to the City and put the cards on the table, nobody else is buying that building. They could give the City a better deal because nobody else wants it. ~ke Visconti, 316 Pine Breeze Drive, read a prepared statement in favor of Regions Bank becoming a new City Hall. He feels just because this has been turned down, doesn't mean it is the end. He feels the lease option is the way to go. We need a better City Hall to service community, for our environment and for the City workers as well as those for the community and our self- image. He feels this is the most economical way to go. To purchase Regions Bank, the cost would come to approximately $3.5 million. The cost to build a new City Hall would cost between $8 million and $10 million. He then questioned the space we have at the current location being enough to build a new City Hall. He feels this is a windfall for the City for the $3.5 million to renovate it and move in. Page -12- Council Regular Meeting May 2, 2005 ~ """'" Councilwoman Rhodes stated if there was a possibility of selling this property to finance a new City Hall, they would be allover it. We are restricted. This land was given to the city and we can not sell it. It must be maintained and kept by the City. Art Martin, 2942 Yule Tree Drive, feels one of the biggest problems is the tax structure. He feels people live here for a reason because they bought fifteen or twenty years ago and they are on a fixed income. He would like to see a lot of dignity come to this town and feels it should start in the residential areas with Code Enforcement. He feels there is no Code Enforcement in this town at all. He questioned how Councilwoman Rhodes can say she won't let anyone take advantage of this City when they won't even talk to the City. He feels we need a City Hall but it is how you go about it. If that bank wouldn't deal with me, I'd tell them to jam it piece by piece. Georae Butler, 1815 Evergreen Drive, stated if we are looking for economic growth in this City we should look professional. What we have here is not professional. We look like we are working out of the backroom of a country store. The expense of the new building should not be considered an expense, it should be considered an investment. John Cordeiro, 1515 Pine Tree Drive, commended Mr. Card and Mr. Ross. He questioned why City Manager Hooper hasn't been dealing with the bank. He questioned why he didn't do this before two citizens had to go and do it. Mayor Schmidt stated they have tried many times. He feels the bank would have to answer Mr. Cordeiro's concerns. Mr. Cordeiro feels there must be something wrong with the City Manager for not doing it. Mayor Schmidt stated he is going to defend the gentleman that they put their trust in. They are trying every avenue they can to do this to make it affordable and legal. Mr. Cordeiro stated since the two citizens have made the deal, let City Manager Hooper take over. Councilwoman Rhodes stated the two taxpayers did it because the voters voted it down. City Manager Hooper couldn't do anything about it. Now they are trying to make it work. Councilwoman Lichter pointed out that Mr. Cordeiro street with a sign saying vote no for everything. stated that was because it was a tax increase. He there in November too. He is getting in shape for be out there longer hours. stood on the Mr. Cordeiro will be out it so he can Page -13- Council Regular Meeting May 2, 2005 '-" ..", Debbv Roaers, 510 S. Riverside Drive, stated she voted no way back when. When the article came out in the paper of Pat Card's efforts and the other gentleman she felt those were great. She would like to see the City Hall move. Listening to everything she is listening to tonight, they need to hold off. They have to have the paperwork in order to make a valid decision for the City. She feels the road behind the bank was a good question. She feels the egress is a good point. She then spoke about not being able to sell the property. She spoke of the New Smyrna Beach High School not being able to sell the property and they have attorneys trying to do some kind of changes way back when so they can sell it. She questioned if this is something for our City Attorney to look into. She feels it would be something wise because you would then have the income to pay for Regions Bank and the citizens don't have to worry about additional taxes. She is all for taxes not being increased. She spoke about a l%increase in the General Fund in 2002. The 1% was increased for the reduction in the Employee Pension Fund and a couple of areas. That 1% increase in the millage has never gone back down. She questioned what is going on with the extra 1%. We have new people moving in all the time. Tax values have gone up and they are paying the taxes. The millage went down a half a point this past year. Whoopee! Where is the 1% that went up in 2002 that was for a specific reason. There are too many things going on. Accountability, it is getting wiped under the carpet. What is being done with those funds? She feels with the 1% since 2002, plus the increase in property tax values plus selling this property they could pay for Regions Bank and not have any debt plus there would be money back in the reserve fund. There was a brief discussion regarding funds that were reimbursed from FEMA. Mayor Schmidt stated back in 2002 they asked and were granted the 1 mill increase. They also said at that time, they needed this because Edgewater was in a sate where they were trying to catch up for years of non-action by previous Councils. They asked for that mill and went up from 5.95 to 6.95. Last year they say they were going to give one half mill back because that they did over the last couple years with the growth and the progress with the industrial park and everything else, they said they were going to give back a half a mill, which they did. They made a promise and statement before the hurricanes, that they were going to do their best to give the other half a mill back this year. For the most part, it is still at the top of their game with that. Page -14- Council Regular Meeting May 2, 2005 '-" ...." Mayor Schmidt stated he understands the frustrations with the taxes but reminded the citizens the Council pays taxes too. He takes offense that it makes them sound like all they want to do is raise taxes. They did back in 2002. After three years of staying at the same rate, they did do that but they gave a half a mill back and they also plan to give more of it back. They are trying to find the best way to get a new City Hall, keep the taxes down, make this a non-financial issue when it comes to how do we pay for it. He feels this is all part of trying to get caught up. Lawrence Visconti, 316 Pine Breeze Drive, feels everyone is trying to make an uninformed decision. It doesn't seem like everybody has all the facts and the math done. How much will taxes increase if they spent $4 million over seven years? He feels Council needs to make an informed decision based on a negotiation that is current, up-to-date and carved in stone. He feels there should be some kind of a document that states what will be paid for the building, how they are going to pay for it, and what it will cost the taxpayer. It is so confusing. Councilwoman Rhodes feels they have all made it clear that their intent is to make this deal happen without raising taxes or they don't want the deal. Councilwoman Lichter stated sometimes there is unknowns connected with taxes beyond Edgewater. She spoke of other taxes that taxpayers pay. She spoke about the City having the second highest taxes in Volusia County. She spoke of Florida Shores going in without roads and without sewers. She spoke of future development including roads and being paid for by the developers that the rest of the City was paying a third for. Mr. Visconti asked for a ballpark figure of how much the taxes will increase. Councilwoman Lichter stated City Manager Hooper has figures that he wrote and gave them at the last meeting. Mr. Visconti asked the audience if anyone knew how much the taxes would increase if they do the new City Hall. Councilwoman Lichter stated not the taxes, in terms of what it will cost for that building. Councilwoman Rhodes stated taxes won't increase or they won't do it. Mayor Schmidt feels it is important to realize there won't be a vote tonight that says they will try and buy City Hall. The main purpose tonight is to hear from the public. Page -15- Council Regular Meeting May 2, 2005 '-' ...." Duke Carter, 1623 Royal Palm Drive, questioned this having to go for a referendum before the people before Council agrees to a lease. Mayor Schmidt stated it all depends on the makeup of the lease and the City Charter. That is another unknown for them. They have to see that deal and it has to be a deal they all agree with and is legal. He asked if they have done feasibility studies. He feels communication from the Council to the people would help. He spoke of other cities that have gotten federal grants to rebuild their own City Hall. He feels there are other options that the citizens need to know have been done. He questioned how many contractors would be willing to rebuild City Hall if they can get federal grant money. He questioned if this has even been explored. He feels every time they take one step further it will help the City in the long run. Mayor Schmidt stated there have been studies right down to photos of the bank building on improvements that would have to be made, hurricane proofing, engineering work. This has been going on for 2 ~ or 3 years. All of that information is available. Anybody that is interested can contact City Hall to review the documents. He is sure if an appointment is made the City Manager would sit down and tell you things they aren't having time to tell. Tom Hikec, 1716 Royal Palm Drive, stated the question isn't whether we need a new City Hall, it is where it is going to go. Of course taxes are going to increase. It seems to him everybody in the City is against the renovation of the bank. It was voted down by the voters. Now they are trying to propose a lease option on it. He suggested they look for another place to move City Hall to. Mayor Schmidt stated they are looking at that too. They had a Committee that has looked at and proposed piece of property to build a new one. Mr. Hikec suggested different locations where City Hall should have gone. He suggested they look for a commercial piece of property on u.s. #1 in a blighted area and re-develop it ourselves. He feels at the same time they should move the Police Department and keep City Hall here or keep the Police Department here and move City Hall. He then suggested the old Winn Dixie shopping center at the gateway to the community wouldn't be a bad location for it. Page -16- Council Regular Meeting May 2, 2005 '-' ...." Councilwoman Rhodes stated several years ago they had a City Hall Siting Committee that looked at property allover the City, priced it and they priced how much it would cost to build a new City Hall and buying that bank building and renovating it is half of the cost that it would cost anywhere in this City to build a City Hall. Mayor Schmidt clarified the County owns the old Winn Dixie location and that plaza is coming down to take 10th Street and make it two lanes both ways. Councilwoman Rhodes explained they have explored all these options over the last four or five years. The reason they were so excited about the bank was because it was the least expensive option to get what we need. Councilwoman Rhodes stated if you didn't vote for the tax increase for the bank building you certainly aren't going to vote for a tax increase to build something that will cost twice as much. Mr. Hikec stated he understands the property here couldn't be sold but was sure it could be leased to a developer. Councilwoman Rhodes clarified this land has to be used for public purpose. Nancy Winchenbach, 2606 22nd Street, feels some of the problems are the newspaper articles that are coming out about this. They are conflicting. She commented on the condition of the roads in Florida Shores. They need to keep in mind that the city needs to look forward. She feels before they can do that they need to get an article in the paper so the citizens can read exactly what is going to be and then have a public hearing. She doesn't feel this property can be renovated but if you give someone an option they can look at it. If you don't give them an option, it usually goes to the negative. That is just the way people will react. Councilwoman Lichter suggested putting something in the newsletter. Ms. Winchenbach stated it should be accurate with some figures that are correct. Page -17- Council Regular Meeting May 2, 2005 ... 'WfII Warren Fisher, 1720 Juniper Drive, complimented Mr. Ross and Mr. Card. He believes somehow they have to find a way to get the bank. In terms of taxes, when this all came up originally with the Decade of Excellence all that was in the paper was mill levies, which a lot of people don't understand how mill levies work. He ran the numbers on his house and for all of the six projects it would have only cost him $35 per year. He encouraged the Council to make every effort to do this with the bank. Carol Ann stouahton, 2740 Evergreen Drive, asked the Council to look into the land that the township owns just to see what we have. The land on Mango is a beautiful piece of land. She was informed the School Board owns all of that land. She then asked if there is any other land that the town owns that they can build on. She asked if there is a way the School Board can donate the land. Mayor Schmidt spoke of ongoing talks when it comes to that property. Ms. Stoughton feels any building can be renovated and there are contractors here that would take it on and they could go and seek federal funds. She feels Code Enforcement does a wonderful job in this town. There are some ordinances that she feels should be made. Pat Card, 3019 Willow Oak Drive, feels something has to be done. They can't continue to put this off any longer. If they can do it without raising the taxes, they need to do it. He doesn't feel putting a second floor on the existing City Hall is a good idea. He is not selling a bank. He doesn't make a penny out of this. All he wanted to do was stir the pot to get a decision out of a group that has to make this decision. ~ke Visconti, 316 Pine Breeze Drive, stated he moved into the City 13 years ago and bought his home for $97,000. He spoke of the amount homes are selling for now. He is retired with no pension and works to pay his taxes, his home and his bill. He feels people move to Edgewater because they love Edgewater and it is a beautiful City. He spoke of the development going on in Edgewater. He again stated we do need a new City Hall, some way some how. Page -18- Council Regular Meeting May 2, 2005 ~ ~ John Cameron, 2121 Pine Tree Drive, stated he can't help but feel this whole concept is being crammed down the people's throat. He feels Mr. Card should be telling the bank not to talk to him but to talk to City Manager Hooper. He feels Mr. Card doesn't understand that the people have spoken. The people have voted and have said no. Mr. Cameron stated if we can lease this and we have this much money in abundance where we can do this without raising taxes, how about a tax cut. How about some of this extra money back to the people. Danny Rogers, 510 S. Riverside Drive, asked if the museum on u.s. #1 is City property and if it would be enough land for City Hall. He was informed it isn't big enough. Mayor Schmidt stated that is our Parks and Recreation Department and our entrance to the park itself. He suggested they move the Parks and Recreation building here and build City Hall there. Duke Carter, 1623 Royal Palm Drive, asked if each Councilmember was present with a citizen of Edgewater going forward with these type negotiations or is the board going to do something now to take charge of that as their elected officials Councilman Vincenzi stated he is not and they aren't going to do anything until they contact City Manager Hooper. Councilman Brown stated he isn't comfortable. Mayor Schmidt feels they have all made it clear that it needs to come through the City Attorney and City Manager before they can do anything with it. Councilwoman Lichter feels there is no way she could vote for this deal unless it is directed to them or the elected officials. Mr. Carter asked if the City is going to pursue talking to the bank. Councilwoman Lichter stated they will leave that to the City Manager. City Manager Hooper stated what will occur next, is the Council is going to give him direction and consensus on what to do. There was a ten-minute recess at this time. The meeting recessed at 8:43 p.m. and reconvened at 8:55 p.m. Page -19- Council Regular Meeting May 2, 2005 ., ~ Councilman Brown suggested they continue to look into this and direct City Manager Hooper to continue research on leasing the bank property. City Manager Hooper stated what he is looking for is to tell him how much and how long. The numbers he is looking at is $23.81 per square foot. At ten years, $25,000 per month it is $16.67 per square foot. Which is much closer to a real market value lease. They are looking at a minimum of ten years with a maximum of $25,000 with anything over that to be negotiated. He has heard all of the Council say they aren't interested in any lease program that will lead them to a tax increase. If they are over $25,000 per month, they will either have a tax increase or cut substantial programs. They will have an increase next year of revenue coming in. If a house is built today it will not be on the tax roll for eighteen to twenty-four months. Councilwoman Rhodes stated if the payment is over $25,000 a month it is not doable without a tax increase. She doesn't want to do this. Councilwoman Lichter stated right now they are talking ten years, not fifteen. City Manager Hooper stated they are talking seven years. Councilwoman Rhodes stated the longer they have to pay out, the more it will cost us. City Manager Hooper spoke about the balloon payment at the end. Councilwoman Lichter feels $25,000 a month is too much and that $20,000 is plenty. She emphatically stated she feels City Manager Hooper should be the negotiator from this point on. She appreciates what Mr. Card and Mr. Ross have done up to this point but she feels it is going to waste time and get confusing. She put full trust in City Manager Hooper and the department heads. She feels if they can't deal with the City there is a problem she isn't seeing. City Manager Hooper stated what he believes they have done is they made an offer that Council saw the first time. He feels they are waiting for a formal counter offer. He will e-mail them in the morning that says ex number of dollars per month over a certain time frame is what Council is looking for. Councilwoman Rhodes suggested he give them a time frame to get back to him. If they don't, the heck with it. Page -20- Council Regular Meeting May 2, 2005 '-' ....., Mayor Schmidt stated he is willing up to $25,000 per month but he feels the ten year spot is better. Councilwoman Lichter feels a fifteen year lease is logical. She doesn't want to cut into services and projects. Councilman Vincenzi feels a ten to fifteen year lease with $20,000 per month is reasonable but it depends on a lot of other factors such as what the balloon payment will be at the end, is it a purchase, is it a lease. He suggested no less than a ten- year lease at $20,000 per month. Councilman Brown suggested ten years with a maximum of $25,000 but would prefer to see $20,000. Councilwoman Lichter asked if that figure is static or is that just the first year. The original proposition went from an amount and then went up after the first year. City Manager Hooper stated this is what Council is willing to do. Councilwoman Lichter would like to see the payment stay the same. She would also like to see more in the contract about sharing the facility with us. Mayor Schmidt stated he thinks they all agree no less than ten years. He thinks the figure should be between $20,000 to $25,000 per month, which is the max they feel they can afford. They can assume at this point it will be upstairs only. Councilwoman Rhodes stated $25,000 for ten years is $3 million. City Manager Hooper asked if the $400,000 balloon payment was included. Councilwoman Rhodes stated if you are paying $3 million there shouldn't be a balloon payment. She feels $3 million is too much money. City Manager Hooper stated that is what you will pay if you extend it over a period of time. She questioned by paying it in seven years as opposed to ten you save a half a million dollars. Why wouldn't you do that. Councilwoman Lichter spoke of not being able to afford it on a yearly basis because you might be cutting into services of the City. She suggested re-negotiating the lease. City Manager Hooper stated part of what Councilwoman Lichter was describing is not a lease. That is a finance plan for purchase. He further elaborated on the difference with a lease. Page -21- Council Regular Meeting May 2, 2005 '-" ....." Councilman Vincenzi asked City Manager Hooper to include the other figures such as the renovation when he comes back with the deal. City Manager Hooper stated the numbers will be borrowed against. They are below the threshold of the Charter so there is some borrowing that will occur to pay the $600,000 per year. Councilman Brown asked if there will be a payback if they have to share the building for a year. Mayor Schmidt stated that will all be part of the negotiations. Councilman Brown wants to get the best deal we can. City Manager Hooper further commented on the $672,000 that will be needed for improvements as well as the other $900,000 that will be needed. Councilwoman Lichter stated she doesn't mind if they have a special meeting for City Manager Hooper to relay to them before their next meeting if something comes up. City Manager Hooper stated he would send a counter offer and some response and they will see what Council wants to do. Councilwoman Rhodes stated $20,000 per year for ten years would be $2.4 million. She asked City Manager Hooper to find out what the balloon payment would be after that. They had a private citizen offer to buy that building for the City and lease it to us. B. 2nd Reading, Ord. No. 2004-0-31, Dan Robison, Highway 442 Partners, LLC, agent for Vincent and Pamela Snowden, requesting annexation of 5,601~ acres of land located north of SR 442, east and west of 1-95 - cont. from 3/7/05, Item 6A Councilwoman Rhodes moved to continue Ord. 2004-0-31 until June 20~, second bv Councilwoman Lichter. The MOTION CARRIED 5-0. Page -22- Council Regular Meeting May 2, 2005 '-' ..." C. 2nd Reading, Ord. No. 2005-0-08, Targator Partners, LLC requesting an amendment to the Official Future Land Use Map from Commercial to High Density Residential for 2.67~ acres of land located on the southeast corner of Falcon Avenue Paralegal Matusick read Ord. 2005-0-08 into the record. City Manager Hooper made a staff presentation. Due to there being no comments, Mayor Schmidt opened and closed the public hearing. Councilwoman Lichter moved to approve Ord. 2005-0-08, Tarqator Partners, LLC reauestinq an amendment to the Official Future Land Use Map from Commercial to Hiqh Density Residential for 2.67+ acres of land located on the southeast corner of Falcon Avenue, second by Councilman Vincenzi. The MOTION CARRIED 5-0. D. 2nd Reading, Ord. No. 2005-0-09, Targator Partners, LLC requesting an amendment to the Official Zoning Map from B-3 (Highway Commercial) to RPUD (Residential Planned Unit Development) for 2.67~ acres of land located on the southeast corner of Falcon Avenue Paralegal Matusick read Ord. 2005-0-09 into the record. City Manager Hooper made a staff presentation. Mayor Schmidt commented on the traffic study that was done about a year ago on that corner. He asked if we have assurances on that corner by using that study that this will not overload that corner. City Manager Hooper explained the intersection at Falcon and where you go into Mariners Gate was turned into a T, meaning it is a three way stop. The traffic study was completed that shows the level of service or number of trips and that this acceptable. Due to there being no comments, Mayor Schmidt opened and closed the public hearing. Page -23- Council Regular Meeting May 2, 2005 ~ ....." Councilman Brown moved to approve Ord. 2005-0-09, Taraator Partners, LLC reauestina an amendment to the Official Zonina Map from B-3 (Hiahway Commercial) to RPUD (Residential Planned Unit Development) for 2.67+ acres of land located on the southeast corner of Falcon Avenue, second by Councilwoman Rhodes. The MOTION CARRIED 5-0. E. 2nd Reading, Ord. No. 2005-0-10, Scott R. Tobin, agent for Mid Florida Investments, LLC, requesting annexation of 30.01~ acres of property located east of US1 and north of Jones Fish Camp Road F. 2nd Reading, Ord. No. 2005-0-11, Rodney Jones, agent for A.S.D. Properties Management, LLC, requesting annexation of 100.66~ acres of property located east of Old Mission Road and North of Mission Oaks Condominium Councilwoman Lichter moved to continue Ord. 2005-0-10 and Ord. 2005-0-11 until July 18th, second bv Councilman Vincenzi. The MOTION CARRIED 5-0. G. 1st Reading, Ord. No. 2005-0-07, Halstead Resources, Inc. requesting an amendment to the Comprehensive Plan Future Land Use Map to include 2.3~ acres of land located at 2203 S. Ridgewood Avenue as Commercial and High Density Residential (cont. from April 4, 2005, Item 6A) This item was discussed previously on the agenda. H. 1st Reading, Ord. No. 2005-0-12, Edgewater LLC requesting an amendment to the Comprehensive Plan Future Land Use Map to include .32~ acres of land located north of 3725 US1 as Commercial Paralegal Matusick read Ord. 2005-0-12 into the record. City Manager Hooper made a staff presentation. Due to there being no comments, Mayor Schmidt opened and closed the public hearing. Councilwoman Lichter asked if this is in front of Hacienda. City Manager Hooper informed her it is close to Hacienda. Page -24- Council Regular Meeting May 2, 2005 ..., ...., CounciLman Vincenzi moved to approve Ord. 2005-0-12, Halstead Resources, Inc. reauestina an amendment to the Comprehensive Plan FUture Land Use MaP to include 2.3+ acres of land located at 2203 S. Ridaewood Avenue as Commercial and Hiah Density Residential, second by Councilwoman Lichter. The MOTION CARRIED 5-0. I. 1st Reading, Ord. No. 2005-0-13, Edgewater LLC requesting an amendment to the Official Zoning Map to include .32~ acres of land located north of 3725 US1 as B-3 (Highway Commercial) Paralegal Matusick read Ord. 2005-0-13 into the record. City Manager Hooper made a staff presentation. Due to there being no comments, Mayor Schmidt opened and closed the public hearing. Councilwoman Lichter moved to approve Ord. 2005-0-13, Edaewater LLC reauestina an amendment to the Official Zonina Map to include .32+ acres of land located north of 3725 USl as B-3 (Hiahway Commercial), second by CounciLman Vincenzi. The MOTION CARRIED 5-0. 7 . BOARD APPOINTMENTS A. Citizen Code Enforcement Board - nomination by Mayor Schmidt to fill seat due to the expired term of Glenn Barnhill, who requested reappointment Mayor Schmidt suggested Glenn Barnhill be reappointed. Councilwoman Rhodes moved to reappoint Glenn Barnhill to the Citizen Code Enforcement Board, second by Councilwoman Lichter. The MOTION CARRIED 5-0. 8 . CONSENT AGENDA There were no items to be discussed on the Consent Agenda at this time. Page -25- Council Regular Meeting May 2, 2005 '-" ....., " 9. OTHER BUSINESS A. New Positions - staff recommending approval of the creation of an Animal Services Administrator and a Residential Building Inspector and the addition of two (2) Firefighters city Manager Hooper made a staff presentation. Councilwoman Rhodes disclosed a lengthy conversation she had with City Manager Hooper and Fire Chief Barlow today. She knows our goal at one point was that all departments pay for themselves. City Manager Hooper stated on those that are fee generated. The Building Department and Planning Department do that. Councilwoman Rhodes feels the Building Department does an excellent job. Councilman Vincenzi asked Fire Chief Barlow when he plans on hiring the two firefighters. Fire Chief Barlow informed him once the positions are approved they will start the process which takes around three months. Councilman Vincenzi asked about the Animal Services Administrator being paid for with fees. City Manager Hooper elaborated. Councilwoman Lichter commented on never adopting the tag program with the County. They are hoping a good supervisor with animals can activate that program. Councilwoman Lichter moved to approve the creation of an Animal Services Administrator and a Residential Buildina Inspector and the addition of two (2) Firefiahters, second bv Councilman Brown. The MOTION CARRIED 5-0. B. Highway Maintenance Contract - staff recommending approval to piggyback on New Smyrna Beach's contract with United Lawn Services for maintenance along SR 442 and US1 for a sum of $81,964.08 per year for a minimum of three (3) years, amend the current FDOT agreement to include maintenance of US1 from Volco Road to Ariel Road and once amended, amend agreement with United Lawn Services to include maintenance of US1 from Volco Road to Ariel Road for a sum of $17,293.43 City Manager Hooper made a staff presentation. Page -26- Council Regular Meeting May 2, 2005 ~ "wIfIII Councilwoman Rhodes likes the numbers and the fact that this is going to cost significantly less. She wondered if they have explored any Edgewater businesses to do this. Leisure Services Director Jack Corder stated he got a price from a local contractor and it was approximately $8,000 more and less services provided. Mayor Schmidt expressed concern with the job they do. They also do the medians in New Smyrna Beach. He feels they can look better than they do. He feels for the medians we have we do pretty good. He has watched them rip out plants and he doesn't understand why. City Manager Hooper stated he thinks Mr. Corder's intent clearly is when you are talking of Ariel to Volco you are talking of mostly unlandscaped. Councilwoman Lichter suggested using wildflowers. City Manager Hooper informed her they are looking at that. In the areas where the medians have been upgraded, his staff will continue to work on. Councilwoman Lichter moved to approve the Hiahway Maintenance Contract - staff recommendina approval to piaavback on New Smyrna Beach's contract with United Lawn Services for maintenance alona SR 442 and US1 for a sum of $81,964.08 per year for a minimum of three (3) years, amend the current FDOT aareement to include maintenance of US1 from Volco Road to Ariel Road and once amended, amend aareement with United Lawn Services to include maintenance of US1 from Volco Road to Ariel Road for a sum of $17,293.43, second by Councilwoman Rhodes. The MOTION CARRIED 5-0. c. Paving Waiver - staff recommending approval of the Deferred Paving Agreement for construction of the Christian Church of Edgewater to be located north of 132 W. Park Avenue city Manager Hooper made a staff presentation. Councilwoman Rhodes stated if this church four years from now decides to disband, do the new people only have one year to pave. City Manager Hooper stated that is correct. It goes with the land and that is the purpose of recording it. Page -27- Council Regular Meeting May 2, 2005 ....... ....." " Councilman Brown stated if the grass is maintained, is there a requirement they absolutely have to pave it. He would rather see it grass. City Manager Hooper spoke of potential problems. The Code requires it to be paved. Counci~woman Lichter moved to approve the Deferred Pavina Aareement for construction of the Christian Church of Edaewater to be ~ocated north of 132 W. Park Avenue, second by Counci~woman Rhodes. The MOTION CARRIED 5-0. City Manager Hooper also informed Council it is five years from when they receive their certificate of occupancy of the church. 10. OFFICER REPORTS A. Deputy City Clerk Bloomer had nothing at this time. B. Paralegal Matusick had nothing at this time. C. City Manager Hooper had nothing at this time. 11. CITIZEN COMMENTS/CORRESPONDENCE The following citizen spoke: Debby Roaers, 510 S. Riverside Drive, stated her comments pertain to the Animal Services Administrator. It sounds great. You are saying that salary will be paid for out of fees and services collected. Does this mean in the budget financial report they will have a separate fund set up that will show the income from those various services and fees so the taxpayers can see that income and then the salary so they can be sure there is not a shortfall. City Manager Hooper stated yes, every year there is a revenue line item that shows projected revenues and expenses by department, which will have the salary. Ms. Rogers asked what happens if there is a shortfall. City Manager Hooper stated if there is a shortfall he will be asking the Council to raise the rates that it takes to take care of the animals. Ms. Rogers stated she thought that the whole facility was set up and was supposed to be ran on volunteer hours and now we are having to pay. The moneys, the services and the fees were going to be used for other purposes. They never talked about an Animal Services Administrator back when this was voted on. Page -28- Council Regular Meeting May 2, 2005 '-' ....." City Manager Hooper stated since early on, he has been very clear that there would be one provided by the City and they would not have the ability to have this built and operated strictly by volunteers. From the City's perspective he can't have a half a million dollar building there solely run by volunteers without somebody that the City has responsible to them. The fees Ms. Rogers is describing he feels will greatly exceed the salary and that is the operating cost of the whole facility. Councilwoman Lichter stated she doesn't think in the beginning the Animal Control people were going to be housed there either so the position becomes more of a supervisory position for Animal Control. Twenty-five volunteers now in Pet Society have been taking care of the animals for free for four years. The volunteers will be furnishing the building such as the exam room and the doctor's facility. There is a list of at least twenty jobs they will be doing, including covering the facility on weekends. They will be working much like the Humane Society does with constant fundraisers to help the facility. Ms. Rogers questioned if the income generated from the fundraisers will be reported as separate line items. City Manager Hooper informed her yes. Ms. Rogers stated she will be looking. A. Tentative Agenda Items There were no Tentative Agenda Items to discuss at this time. 12 . ADJOURNMENT There being no further business to discuss, Councilwoman Rhodes moved to adjourn. The meeting adjourned at 9:41 p.m. Minutes submitted by: Lisa Bloomer Page -29- Council Regular Meeting May 2, 2005