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09-26-2005 - Regular '-' ...., , CITY COUNCIL OF EDGEWATER REGULAR MEETING SEPTEMBER 26, 2005 IMMEDIATELY FOLLOWING SPECIAL MEETING 8:00 P.M. COMMUNITY CENTER MINUTES 1 . CALL TO ORDER Mayor Schmidt called the Regular Meeting to order at 8:00 p.m. in the Community Center. ROLL CALL Mayor Donald Schmidt Councilman James Brown Councilman Dennis Vincenzi Councilwoman Harriet Rhodes Councilwoman Judith Lichter City Manager Kenneth Hooper City Clerk Susan Wadsworth Paralegal Robin Matusick Present Present Present Present Present Present Present Present INVOCATION, PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE There was a silent invocation and pledge of allegiance to the Flag. 2. APPROVAL OF MINUTES There were no minutes to be approved at this time. 3. PRESENTATIONS/PROCLAMATIONS/PLAQUES/CERTIFICATES/DONATIONS There were no presentations at this time. 4. CITIZEN COMMENTS The following citizens spoke: John Cordeiro, 1515 Pine Tree Drive, commented on the wetlands. The wetlands is a very serious thing. He sees where Edgewater and Volusia County don't care about the wetlands. All they care about is development and taxes. '-' ....., Mr. Cordeiro commented on the water meters being put in. He spoke about the guys being paid by piecework. He feels piecework is not quality, it is quantity and that is what is going into the City right now. They don't get paid very much so they are hurrying as far as they can and you aren't getting quality putting all those meters in. Mr. Cordeiro stated he has been attending Council meetings for three years and he wished he could pat the Council on the back every time he comes but they haven't given him any reason that he can do that. He would much rather do that than bring up all these issues. He has been attending Council meetings for three years and it isn't fun. Coming to an Edgewater Council meeting is like going to a zoo. He feels they are the weakest Council he has ever seen in his life. He feels they don't use comment sense and do not research issues. Mayor Schmidt asked Mr. Cordeiro if there was anything they could do for him. Mr. Cordeiro stated for all of the Council to resign. That would be the best help for all of the citizens and taxpayers of Edgewater. Mayor Schmidt informed Mr. Cordeiro they are happy to see him every meeting. Mr. Cordeiro stated he read in a University of Business book and he thought of Mayor Schmidt when he read it. It says everyone has a right to a university degree in America, even if it's in hamburger technology. Councilman Brown asked Mr. Cordeiro about all the time he has spent in his store talking about this stuff and he shows him the research. Does that not count for anything? Mr. Cordeiro asked if they did any research for all the money they are spending. Councilman Brown informed him yes they did, years worth of it. Dot Car~son, 1714 Edgewater Drive, stated she agreed with Mr. Cordeiro regarding the wetlands. She stated she represents, ECARD. The more we develop the more we lose and it's not just the wetlands. It's the trees, our unrenewable sources. If we could get some responsible growth going. Politically she is not against growth but personally she is. She further commented on roads and schools that come with development. Is that going to come out of taxpayer now. Page -2- Council Regular Meeting September 26, 2005 '-' ...." Mayor Schmidt stated development is paYlng their way. That is one of the reasons this City is one of the highest impact fee cities and one of the reasons our City has road impact fees where we can do as much as we can legally to counter the growth we know is coming and make it as much as of a less of a burden on the residents that own property in this town. Ms. Carlson feels they should make it less of a burden on the environment and it is kind of hard to renew it. Mayor Schmidt agreed. Ms. Carlson did an editorial on the trees near the interstate and they are beautiful but if you drive down U.S. 1 you will see acreage that has been cleared and it looks like a bomb hit it. There are ways to develop around the environment. 5. CITY COUNCIL REPORTS Councilman Brown had nothing at this time. Councilman Vincenzi had nothing at this time. Councilwoman Rhodes had nothing at this time. Councilwoman Lichter stated before this year many of attended environmental workshops about Smart Growth. of a plan being worked on for Volusia County. There been restraints with wetlands. them have She spoke have always Councilwoman Lichter stated there is going to be a Summit of the Cities put on by the Chamber. They will be going over the packet that is a result of the year's work of individuals from various backgrounds. Councilwoman Lichter asked if the Chairman of Planning and Zoning Board and the Board have been invited to the Summit of the Cities. She feels they should attend. City Manager Hooper informed her last time they did Planning and Zoning and the Economic Development Board. Councilwoman Lichter feels the cities and counties have to work together before it is too late. Rick Rosen, owns the corner of SR 442 and Old Mission Road, stated he has been paying taxes and he pays for the size of his property. They all write about wetlands to an issue. If you look around Lake Okeechobee it is 23 feet below the level of where it should be. It is surrounded by millions of acres of wetlands. It has nothing to do with the environmental growth of a city. The city needs to grow. Page -3- Council Regular Meeting September 26, 2005 '-' .., Mr. Rosen further stated this is a City that needs the money. He is in a wetlands issue right now where he has four to six acres of wetlands and he has to pay $75,000 to $80,000 an acre to mitigate it to go somewhere else. When wetlands are taken it's not forgotten about. Somebody is paying for it. Not the City but the property owner. Councilwoman Lichter commented on bringing up the fact that she didn't think there was a map in the City to help people evacuate. She was informed by Peggy Cousins at the Fire Department that the Volusia County Disaster Preparedness Guide includes evacuation routes. Councilwoman Lichter commented on citizens in the community that wrote a new tree ordinance because they were getting very upset with the developers taking down certain size trees. Members of the group asked her if they were hiding the tree ordinance and she found out the tree ordinance is not lost, it is just one that is waiting. It has to go to every department head, the Planning and Zoning Board and back to Council before it is included in the Land Development Code. Councilwoman Lichter commented on a complaint she received regarding the condition of 35th Street. She asked about the status of paving 35th Street so there would be a back entrance/exit into Florida Shores. She stated she contacted Terry Wadsworth and he informed her it was because of having rain for five days and that they were going to go back and do it. Mayor Schmidt asked City Manager Hooper to present a brief update on the paving. City Manager Hooper explained what has occurred is the County is at the end of their fiscal year like us. They have contracts that are very limited in nature right now. They piggybacked on the last one to get Travelers and 35th Street. Their schedule is to try and get 35th Street done this week. Environmental Services Director Terry Wadsworth stated their schedule right now is to get 35th Street, Volco Road and then they are going to do Travelers. They should be done in the next couple weeks. They are already staged to do it. Mayor Schmidt asked if they can have someone daily scrape the road until they can get it paved. He received complaints this past weekend regarding the potholes being so big they could eat small cars. Mr. Wadsworth stated that is from the rain last week. They were out there today and will go out tomorrow and every day as necessary until it is paved. Page -4- Council Regular Meeting September 26, 2005 '-' .."", Mayor Schmidt complimented Leisure Services on the Fall Festival. Mayor Schmidt commented on the Kiwanis Club event at the Brannon Center. It was a good time. 6. PUBLIC HEARINGS, ORDINANCES AND RESOLUTIONS A. Public Hearing, Wayne Wiggins, applicant/Fraternal Order of Eagles, 132 W. Park Avenue, requesting a Special Activity permit with outdoor music for a "Biketoberfest BBQ" to be held October 20 thru 23, 2005, and waiver of the 60 day notification and application fee City Manager Hooper made a staff presentation. Staff has recommended denial due to this coming in after the 60 day window. It was eleven days late. Mayor Schmidt opened the public hearing. Wayne Wiqqins, 2475 Taylor Road, apologized for the delay in getting this into the Council later than they should have. He commented on the money they raised for the children that were hit by the garbage truck as well as the food delivered to the family. He commented on the change of officers in June and this being part of the cause for the delay. He asked the Council to please let them do this event. He gave his word that next year this would be submitted on time. George Austin, Orange Tree Drive, stated he is on the events committee for the Fraternal Order of Eagles and he is also the Chaplain. He stated they have been very busy and have had deaths and sicknesses. He apologized and will have to apologize to the Eagles tomorrow night for his failure. He should have been responsible to obtain this permit prior to it being late. Mayor Schmidt closed the public hearing. Councilwoman Lichter stated she has no problem with them being late because every rule sometime has to be broken with extenuating circumstances. She wanted to talk about waiving the application fee. She questioned if they usually waive the fee for non-profit organizations. City Manager Hooper informed her they haven't had a pure charity event. He commented on costs for Code Enforcement, advertising, and noticing requirements. Page -5- Council Regular Meeting September 26, 2005 '-" ....,I Councilwoman Rhodes feels it is important to let reason they don't waive the fees is because that money. She has no problem with the delay. people know the is taxpayer Councilman Brown stated that is one of the good things about being on the Council. They can do things like this occasionally to help people out. Counci~woman Rhodes moved to approve the Specia~ Activity per.mit with outdoor music for a "Biketoberfest BBQ" to be he~d October 20 thru 23, 2005, and waiver of the 60 dav notification but not to approve waivin~ the app~ication fee, second bv Counci~n Brown. The MOTION CARRIED 5-0. B. Public Hearing, Leslie Peterson, owner/Dog House Saloon, 307 N. Ridgewood Avenue, requesting a Special Activity permit with outdoor music for a "Dog Day Afternoon" event to be held October 22, 2005 City Manager Hooper made a staff presentation. Due to there being no comments, Mayor Schmidt opened and closed the public hearing. Mayor Schmidt stated there is a lot of events this year around the Bike Week time and it looks like we are going to have several events going on on the same day at the same time. He asked Police Chief Ignasiak how this works into this game plan. Police Chief Ignasiak stated he didn't think they were going to have a problem at all. They actually double the number of officers they have out during Bike Week. He spoke of traffic becoming their biggest issue. Counci~woman Lichter moved to approve the Specia~ Activitv per.mit with outdoor music for a "Doer Day Afternoon" event to be he~d October 22, 2005, second by Counci~woman Rhodes. The MOTION CARRIED 5-0. C. Public Hearing, L.E.O. Land Developers requesting preliminary plat approval for a 21-unit single family residential subdivision to be known as Pinehurst City Manager Hooper made a staff presentation. Page -6- Council Regular Meeting September 26, 2005 '-' ...." Councilman Brown asked if they checked for gophers. Hooper commented on an environmental assessment that done. This will require some County cooperation. City Manager has been Councilwoman Lichter asked if the developer pays for the environmental assessment. City Manager Hooper explained the developer pays for virtually all of it. There is an environmental assessment, drainage plans, engineering plans, construction plans. He spoke about there being a typical homeowners association mandate that they pay an assessment for the street lights and maintaining the ponds. The roads will be public streets. Mayor Schmidt opened the public hearing. The following citizen spoke: Dot Car~son, 1714 Edgewater Drive, asked if the City has the environmental assessment. City Manager Hooper informed him the Planning Department does. Ms. Carlson stated she found some flaws in some of the environmental assessments that have been done. Tuscany Villas stated their survey was done in July. She looked at the property in August. What she found was just from the road observation, vegetation that supports gopher tortoises. She walked ten feet within the property and found three active gopher tortoise burrows. They could have occurred there after the survey was done. Part of this has been cleared. If nobody goes back in to look and see that they are there, what happens? Councilwoman Lichter stated the environmental overview is paid for by the developer and they hire the group that is going to do it. She felt it was customary to only do it one time and asked if there is a requirement that it has to be done more than once as they go along. City Manager Hooper stated they require the environmental assessment be done within the most recent twelve months. If they think, and in this case they probably will, there is some issue where some animals are there, our next step is we have a contract with the county's environmental group and they come out and give a second opinion. He also commented on what happens if they find any endangered species there. Page -7- Council Regular Meeting September 26, 2005 ~ ....., Councilman Brown has a problem with them hiring whatever consultant they want to look at these things. He feels they should be required to hire a certain group because they could hire someone that says there is nothing there. City Manager Hooper stated what happens is they are hiring a licensed, liable group. If that occurred many times, they would get turned into the State. He further explained there are three or four local firms they use, which are the same firms we would use if we were calling in somebody. Ms. Carlson stated obviously that didn't happen at the motel going in in front of her property. There were gopher tortoises there. Nobody reported them there. She did. She stopped them. If they did an environmental assessment on that piece of property she never saw it. City Manager Hooper stated they did not. It was an in-fill, fairly small parcel along u.S. #1 and SR 442. It had been filled not long ago with excess fill from the SR 442 construction. It was one of those parcels that came through and it didn't appear there would be gopher tortoises. It was not requested. As soon as they were notified they were there. They stopped. They obtained a permit from Florida Fish and Wildlife and were able to comply with all those conditions. Ms. Carlson stated they applied for one permit because they found one after the tortoises were covered illegally. They paid $4,955 for one because of the after the fact take. If they had looked earlier they would have found more than the five she knew about because more of them crawled off that property when the bulldozers came in. She feels these firms need to be checked. She is in touch with an organization that does keep tabs on the firms that do not make accurate assessments. Councilman Brown asked if it would be possible to do a check for animals thirty days before they clear a section of land. City Manager Hooper stated realistically it's not practical. Debra Roqers, 510 S. Riverside Drive, asked about the conservation overlay and if there is a certain amount of acreage they can tell her will be for conservation out of the 6.85 for this whole development City Manager Hooper stated the conservation overlay is a description that says they suspect wetlands species or hydric soils. The property owner is required to get survey information, wetlands information and threatened and endangered to determine if it is there or not. Development Services Director Darren Lear stated there is about 2 acres of open space. Page -8- Council Regular Meeting September 26, 2005 ~ ~ Ms. Rogers commented on there being four houses per acre. She asked if the ponds will be for the retention of water and how many ponds there will be. City Manager Hooper asked for Daniel Johns, L.E.O. Land Developers engineer, to come up and answer some of the questions. Daniel Johns stated it is referred to as a drainage pond but in this case it really isn't. It's a dry retention area that has a groundwater table in excess of eight feet below the surface of the ground. Ms. Rogers stated but yet they have conservation overlay on two of the 6.85 acres that will not be built upon because it will be for conservation. City Manager Hooper stated open space is where the drainage retention ponds will be. There is a requirement to have a certain percentage of open space. Ms. Rogers stated the subdivision that is surrounding this area, she hasn't noticed that they have these areas of these dry ponds but yet this area is going to have four which will total two acres partly and then part of the green area. This is not consistent with the subdivision that is near this property. City Manager Hooper stated this is much better than the adjacent subdivision. The other was built prior to Water Management District requirements to treat their water so their water runs off directly into the river. There is no holding of the water, pretreatment of the water and then allowing it to percolate or run off. Ms. Rogers asked about the properties on Flamingo and Godfrey and if the water percolates correctly when it rains or if it is sitting on someone's property. City Manager Hooper stated it probably puddles. He commented on many of those homes being on septic tanks so they are adding even further to the pollution going to the river. Ms. Rogers asked the widths of the lots off of Flamingo and Godfrey. She didn't notice those to be seventy feet in width. She noticed them to be larger than seventy feet and in this proposed subdivision the lots are seventy foot wide. City Manager Hooper stated these are seventy by one hundred and twenty five. Development Services Director Lear stated they are about eighty feet. Page -9- Council Regular Meeting September 26, 2005 ...... ...." Mr. Johns stated they do have a permit from St. Johns and as part of that permit they go out and look at the site and also look for gopher tortoises, eagles, or alligators or whatever else might be there and apparently they didn't see anything. David Chess, 209 Oak Branch Drive, asked if they can include in future packets the revenue on impact fees that these type of projects bring to Edgewater. Everyone is concerned about future growth and he thinks when they start to see some of the impact fees it may alleviate some of their tensions when they realize the cost of this project and the revenues the City receives. City Manager Hooper stated what they do normally is $1 per household. Around here it will be about $9,000 to $10,000 for each lot that is built out. He agreed to do this if Council would like to see that. Mayor Schmidt closed the public hearing. Counci~woman Rhodes moved to accept the pre~iminary p~at approva~ for a 21-unit sinq~e fami~y residentia~ subdivision to be known as Pinehurst, second by Counci~woman Lichter. The MOTION CARRIED 5-0. O. Res. No. 2005-R-13, modification (indexing) of administrative and user fees This item was withdrawn from the agenda. City Manager Hooper explained Item D was a brainstorm that was going to pull all revenues in one ordinance. They were putting that together and on a schedule to bring it before Council. It is a forty-five to fifty page ordinance. It will be another three months. They are trying to get this done before January. 7. BOARD APPOINTMENTS There were no Board Appointments at this time. 8. CONSENT AGENDA There were no Consent Agenda items to be discussed at this time. Page -10- Council Regular Meeting September 26, 2005 'W' ...., 9. OTHER BUSINESS A. Consulting Services - staff recommending approval to enter into an agreement with Bogdahn Consulting to perform services to develop and implement a better strategy for management of all the Defined Benefit Pension Plans for a cost of $20,000, and authorize Mayor/City Manager to execute the documents City Manager Hooper made a staff presentation. Councilwoman Rhodes stated the one thing about this that they were so happy to have this was we have a money back guarantee. If we aren't satisfied in the first twelve months with their services, they will refund us our money. Counci~woman Rhodes moved to approve enterinq into an aqreement with Bogdahn Consu~tinq to perfor.m services to deve~op and imp~ement a better strateav for manaqement of a~~ the Defined Benefit Pension P~ans for a cost of $20,000, and authorize Mayor/City Manaqer to execute the documents, second by Counci~n Brown. The MOTION CARRIED 5-0. B. Western Reserve Area Utilities Project - staff recommending approval of Change Order No. 1 to close out the "Project" with Progressive Contractors, Inc. for $1,287,689.55, a $8,602.55 reduction from the original contract, and authorize the Mayor/City Manager to execute the documents City Manager Hooper made a staff presentation. Counci~woman Rhodes moved to approve Change Order No. 1 to c~ose out the "Proiect" with Progressive Contractors, Inc. for $1,287,689.55, a $8,602.55 reduction from the oriqina~ contract and authorize the Mayor/City Manaqer to execute the documents with reqard to the Western Reserve Area Uti~ities Proiect, second by Counci~woman Lichter. The MOTION CARRIED 5-0. Page -11- Council Regular Meeting September 26, 2005 ~ .."", C. Canal Relocation and Improvements - staff recommending to declare drainage improvements on Beck's Grove Road to be an emergency, authorize Halifax Paving, Inc. to construct the improvements at a cost not to exceed $90,000.00 and authorize the Mayor/City Manager to execute the documents City Manager Hooper passed down a map and set of plans to the Council due to only having one copy. City Manager Hooper made a staff presentation. Councilman Vincenzi questioned how Coral Trace messed up on the planning. City Manager Hooper explained their engineer described the easement and that they were going into the easement. Everybody reviewed it and believed they were within the easement. Then they had issues as to how much water was being discharged. More research determined that the road after it was resurvey was outside of the easement. This is not uncommon under old plats or old easement conditions. Councilwoman Lichter asked if this has any impact on the businesses in the front or does this just have to do with the residents in the back. City Manager Hooper explained why it has future impacts. Mari~yn Austin, 3214 Yule Tree Drive, stated in addition to that property, she owns with Mr. Rosen and Mr. Constantini, Lot 6, which is on that property in question. They have been battling with the City for quite some time about the drainage, the fact that it has been flooding on their acreage there. The City assured them that they were perfectly within their rights. That it was not their access which they now realize that they had made a mistake and all along they have been draining onto their property. They have had numerous meetings with Mr. Hooper and have come to no avail. Now all of a sudden it is an emergency. Their entranceway is just south of Magnolia Village, and there is approximately 30 feet of woods which is where this drain is supposed to go. The road is a private road. They want to be assured that the road is still a private road and remains a private road. She asked how this construction will be done without using access to the private road. She asked who will maintain this in future years to make sure it doesn't disintegrate and continue to flood their property as it has been doing for the last six months. Page -12- Council Regular Meeting September 26, 2005 '-" ...", Ms. Austin stated they are very pleased to see that finally something is being done, that they were in the right and they have been dealing with this flooding issue all along. They want to make sure that it is not a City expense because their tax dollars are to be used properly and not to fund a private enterprise. They want to make sure their road will not be abused. It is a private road so they would like to know how this is going to be done. City Manager Hooper stated it is not a private road. It's Becks Grove Road. It is platted to the County in a 1940 something plat. Surveyors have identified that. They have a fairly narrow platted roadway. Next to it you have a drainage easement so you combine the two. You have sufficient room to relocate the road and put this drainage easement that will then be on the south side of that road. Ms. Austin then asked if the shell road as it exists is not on heir private property. City Manager Hooper stated no, it is on your property but will be relocated to the right-of-way that it is supposed to be on. Ms. Austin clarified that City Manager Hooper was telling this will not affect their property. City Manager Hooper this will greatly improve the drainage to their property. Austin stated which is what they have been asking for for months. them stated Ms. six Mayor Schmidt asked who takes care of the road now. City Manager Hooper informed him nobody. If anybody does there is a private residence at the end of the road as it turns right and heads north and there may be an individual that is paid to have it done. Mayor Schmidt stated if it doesn't work, is it back on the developer. City Manager Hooper informed him yes. Part of their problem on flooding their property is there is no drainage to it right now. He further commented on there being a very narrow swale. What needs to happen is relocate the road, make a drainage swale that will move that water from the west to the east and get it to the DOT where they completed all the infrastructure the City just helped pay for under SR 442 and that sends it south. All of the culverts will be replaced and cleaned out and the ditch will be widened and graded. Page -13- Council Regular Meeting September 26, 2005 ,..,. ..." Councilman Vincenzi questioned why water is draining off of Coral Trace's property. City Manager Hooper stated you have to under certain storm events. Anything over a twenty-five year storm event it will go where it naturally would have gone. Rick Rosen informed City Manager Hooper he was not at the first meeting when seventeen of them were standing out there. From the builders "one hundred year flood you will never see water come out of the retention pond. He spoke of having two hours of rain and Magnolia Village was filling up and Old Mission was backing up water on top of it. They are not here to give the City any stop of growth to make it work right but it is not benefitting, the way you were just asking, where was all the water coming from that direction. The water was coming to SR 442 off of a retention pond originally when it was Beck's Orange Grove. They went ahead and filled that and made three retention ponds where all three go to one drainage pipe. He is concerned because to turn his 23 acres into the next project or does he come to Council and say he needs if water easement rights. Well we can't give you water easements right because the contractor, the lady who is in charge of laying out this land, told him he doesn't know what he is talking about. He informed the lady she didn't know what she was talking about. The retention pond on the far east, far west side of the development of the new Coral Trace needs a drain back into the front of SR 442 to allow some of the easement. The whole development back there is going to one pipe to come down Becks Grove Road which will go to Old Mission. He is going to come to Council in the next meeting or five to turn his 23 acres into commercial and he is paying for the wetlands mitigation and where is his water easement rights going to go to. They don't want to say no they don't want water coming through there. They want it to be right. They are all here to work together. They have no issue over there. It was a business purchase that he bought with Marilyn. He thought he was going to do a little monopoly going on against the contractor. That didn't work out. Water easement rights was a major issue. It got to the part of being in court. No one ever signed them to allow that water easement right to go back through there. He is afraid they won't be able to handle the water once it has only one pipe for the whole Coral Trace development to drain to Old Mission and come south to his corner and then go underneath a floodgate to SR 442. He feels that one retention pond is not going to handle the whole drainage for Coral Trace. The original plans out there included a big pond out front where the water would fill up, it would go out onto SR 442 and then go across. Page -14- Council Regular Meeting September 26, 2005 ....., ...., Mr. Rosen feels this needs to be done right so after the $90,000 check is okayed there is other water backup. If they really get a serious five-day rain, they won't only back up the one culvert. What happens if that one culvert backs up and now Coral Trace becomes under flood after you've got 200 new homes in there and then you start flooding our SR 442 because it has nowhere to go. They want to work together here. That one pipe is not going to handle draining down that road behind Magnolia Village and three retention ponds. He feels somebody needs to open up the furthest west and add a culvert going out to SR 442 and it will break some up because they are all going to one. The whole Coral Trace development drains to one pipe in the back that goes down Becks Grove Road. He wants to work with the City. He wants the City to grow. He feels if they okay this one retention pond, he doesn't feel it will handle the drainage issue. Environmental Services Director Wadsworth explained they aren't replacing the existing swale. That will stay intact. They are putting a new swale in, drainage area that will be exclusively dedicated to the outfall that comes from Coral Trace. They aren't sharing ditches, they are segregating. So there will be no capacity issues with that. What they agreed to do with the County to make the problem less of a problem is when it gets out to Mission Road there is a thirty inch pipe that goes from the south side to the north side. Right now the flow of the existing canal goes through that. It still will. The flow from the new canal they are putting a diversion structure at the end of Becks Grove Road. The flow from that is going to go to the south. The existing flow from Mr. Rosen's property and those other properties actually flows to the north. They will actually go in separate directions. They are getting together with Volusia County and petitioning DOT to lower the overflow structure that goes under SR 442 from the north side to the south side because they feel it is too high. Mr. Rosen feels one pipe on 200 homes just isn't going to cut it. He has been out there a long time. He feels they are looking to really make this water be accessible to more than one exit. He agreed to give his property to the City to put City Hall on if he is wrong. Mr. Wadsworth stated he is talking about the discharge that will go off from Coral Trace. There is one drop off point there. It will not be going into his canal anymore. Mr. Rosen stated the whole development of Coral Trace drains to one pipe. Councilwoman Lichter told him it's a different pipe. Mr. Rosen stated it still has to go to Old Mission Road. Councilwoman Lichter told him but in different directions. Mr. Rosen stated great engineering wise yes. He feels something else needs to be done besides the one pipe. Page -15- Council Regular Meeting September 26, 2005 .., ...." Mayor Schmidt stated it sounds like there are some concerns there. This seems like the starting point. He was impressed with Mr. Wadsworth's explanation of how this will work. He wants to make sure there is enough there. If we okay this, what do we do. We don't want to wait until a one hundred year storm event. City Manager Hooper stated okaying this takes care of the development, takes care of putting it in the proper location and gets it out to Old Mission. When he comes in with his property that is when he will size and look at the drainage how to get the water off his property into this public conveyance system so it flows. Old systems never had positive outfalls into public conveyance systems. They don't approve development anymore like that. This was approved thinking it went into a public right of way and it turns out it's public but it's not where the swale is located. You are doing step one, relocating that. Step two is when they bring their plans forward to develop that intersection, which he's going to do, he's going to have to have pond that will either outfall to SR 442 or this direction or both directions. That is the next step. You can't solve his drainage problem until he is ready to develop his parcel. Mayor Schmidt stated they want to make sure his drainage problem isn't part of Coral Trace's. City Manager Hooper stated it's not. Mr. Rosen asked if they can put another retention drain out onto SR 442 to allow some of the easement off of the one pond. City Manager Hooper informed him no. Part of the problem is where it goes on SR 442 you are into DOT right of way. It will take the water right straight back to the east in front of his property and it will meet into the same area that it outfalls. All of the water is going to the same place. It is going to the east side of Old Mission and will then to go the south. It may turn out that in the future either his property or a second pond outfall could be done to get into the front of SR 442. Councilwoman Rhodes stated since this is not costing the taxpayers any money, this drainage work, let's do it and see how it works. If it doesn't work, she told Mr. Rosen to come back and see the Council. Page -16- Council Regular Meeting September 26, 2005 '-" ....." Councilman Vincenzi stated he doesn't feel comfortable with this at all. This is a lot of wording and if anybody says they understood the drawing that was passed around, he will need it explained to him. He understands what Mr. Wadsworth was saying about adding another exit but he isn't convinced this is a good solution because he doesn't know enough about the problem. He doesn't think this is good or wise to declare this emergency drainage work. This is only an emergency because probably the developer wants to continue developing without having to stop. Councilwoman Rhodes asked if this isn't done if Mr. Rosen's property would continue to be flooded. Mr. Rosen stated there is not another exit. There is only one exit for that whole square. Councilman Vincenzi stated City Manager Hooper talks about one hundred year storm events. He understands excessive rain. Anything that is designed to retain water is eventually going to overflow if there is enough. He doesn't think they have had excessive rain. City Manager Hooper stated during the storms last year is when his flooding started. Councilman Vincenzi stated he doesn't think this is gOlng to solve the problem. Councilwoman Rhodes asked who decided this would solve the problem. City Manager Hooper stated he did. Councilwoman Lichter stated and he's an engineer. Councilwoman Rhodes asked Mr. Wadsworth if he concurred this would solve the problem. Mr. Wadsworth stated yes. They met with the County staff and other engineers. Mayor Schmidt asked who is going to take care of the road that nobody owns and the ditches. City Manager Hooper stated it is county property brought up to standards. Either we are going to take care of it when it is all annexed around it or the County will take care of it. Councilman Vincenzi stated why should there be water draining off this property now. City Manager Hooper explained the groundwater table rises after you have had as much rain as we have had. He commented on the standing water in the swales on SR 442. You have groundwater that is elevated. You get any kind of rain it doesn't have anywhere to percolate so it runs off and that is exactly how this system is designed to work. Page -17- Council Regular Meeting September 26, 2005 ~ ....", Councilwoman Rhodes stated she thinks the problem is Mr. Rosen says this isn't going to work and City Manager Hooper says it is going to work. Mr. Rosen stated the new drain will work from flooding them out. Mike Thomas, Royal Palm Drive, stated he was Wildlife Officer for 30 years and has been all through that area. He agreed with Mr. Rosen. That was Beck's Grove and when he went out there looking for poachers after it rained you had to have your rubber boots on between the orange trees. Then it drained in because you had the trees soaking up the water. Now what they have done out there is they have dug the bar pits and built it up and the Turnbull Hammock is about the center of Mission Road. It is going to run off of his property and if you have four or five days of torrential rain and you are talking about draining it down that canal and it is going to hit at Mission Road and there is going to be an overflow right there. Mr. Rosen stated once all the water comes through the new drain and comes back down south to go out where his corner is, what will keep it from coming onto his property. City Manager Hooper stated it is on the other side of Mission Road. It comes under Mission Road where a large DOT outfall located. Councilwoman Lichter asked Mr. Rosen if he ever had water problems before Coral Trace. Mr. Rosen informed her never. Counci~woman Lichter moved to dec~are drainaqe improvements on Beck's Grove Road to be an emerqencv, authorize Ha~ifax Pavinq, Inc. to construct the improvements at a cost not to exceed $90,000.00, however the Citv is in charge of that proiect, second by Counci~n Brown. The MOTION DIED 3-2. Counci~n Brown, Counci~n Vincenzi and Counci~woman Rhodes voted NO. Councilman Vincenzi stated he thinks this needs to be studied and they need more information to decide on a proper course of action. City Manager Hooper stated sure. Councilman Brown would also like to see more information. City Manager Hooper stated he would like to take them out and show them the whole issue. Page -18- Council Regular Meeting September 26, 2005 '-' ...., Councilwoman Rhodes stated the problem person says it will fix it and someone would appreciate another opinion. she has with it is one else says it won't. She Mayor Schmidt stated if they don't do anything right now, nothing gets better. This is at no cost to us to get the progress started. Councilman Vincenzi stated it should be no cost to us no matter what. Mayor Schmidt stated they are doing absolutely nothing to even start the process to get it done. D. Legal Services - staff recommending approval to enter into a contract with Fred Jaeger, Jr., P.A. to provide Police forfeiture litigation City Manager Hooper made a staff presentation. Councilwoman Lichter moved to approve enterinq into a contract wi th Fred Jaeqer, Jr., P. A. to provide Police rorrei ture litigation, second by Councilman Brown. The MOTION CARRIED 5 - 0 . 10. OFFICER REPORTS A. City Clerk Wadsworth had nothing at this time. B. Paralegal Matusick had nothing at this time. C. City Manager Hooper stated he wanted to talk about dates for Council meetings in October and November. In October they are looking at a single meeting on October loth and a meeting on November 7th. Councilwoman Rhodes asked if they could move the drainage problem to the October loth meeting. City Manager Hooper stated he can't get them a new answer by then because he doesn't know what they want. Councilwoman Lichter suggested they hear from Coral Trace also. City Manager Hooper stated what they are after is for someone to tell them this design will work. He agreed to hire someone else if that is what the Council wants. Councilwoman Rhodes wants Coral Trace to hire someone else. City Manager Hooper stated Coral Trace's engineer designed it. Paralegal Matusick stated and the County approved it. Page -19- Council Regular Meeting September 26, 2005 .... ....., Councilman Vincenzi stated this is a classic example of where a property owner adjacent to a development has problems. Nobody believes them because the engineer says the design should work. He feels Mr. Rosen's problem needs to be verified. Councilwoman Rhodes agreed. She feels the least they owe him is to consider what he has to say. City Manager Hooper stated it has been considered. The County gave permits to make this occur. You had their engineer sign and seal that these plans work. Councilwoman Rhodes stated but Mr. Rosen lives there and he says something different. So we are just supposed to ignore him? City Manager Hoper stated no but you need to take into account all he is trying to do is up his property to sell his property to Coral Trace. Councilwoman Rhodes stated she is doing that which is why she is asking City Manager Hooper to bring this back on the 7th. Mayor Schmidt asked for an update on the Elks. He had a face to face encounter from someone that seems to think they are the worst guys in the world. City Manager Hooper stated they certainly aren't holding it up. They just submitted their site plan. Mr. Lear stated they have a TRC meeting with them tomorrow. They just submitted their site plan recently for the first time. Staff has ten days to review that and then they have a Technical Review Committee, which they have scheduled for tomorrow. 11. CITIZEN COMMENTS/CORRESPONDENCE The following citizens spoke: Pat Card, 3019 Willow Oak Drive, stated he is concerned to see additional requests and applications for special permits. He would hate to see this City bogged down with traffic in the afternoons. He doesn't want this City to become a City that is dependent upon special events. Mike Thomas, Royal Palm Drive, stated he has never met Mr. Rosen but he knows where his property is. He has been in Becks Grove many times when it was wet. He knows which way the water flows. He knows what they did to that property. They elevated it. He knows it has to go to him and he wasn't trying to make the Council to vote against the decision for that drainage ditch because he feels that would be a start. He feels if they had a five-day torrential rain or a hurricane, he would be afraid it would blow SR 442 out and that is our exit out of here. That is what is scaring him. He feels they need a bigger fix than just that one thing. Page -20- Council Regular Meeting September 26, 2005 '-' ...." . Debra Roqers, 510 S. Riverside Drive, commented on the wetlands. She believes in responsible growth. She spoke of large tracts of property that are going to be annexed into the city. The property before it comes to the Council for approval, first goes through the Department of Community Affairs and St. Johns River Water Management. Do they determine that the property could be developed at that point even when it has wetlands. Mr. Lear further commented on the process. Ms. Rogers feels people have been misinformed thinking that once something comes to Council they think the City is annexing another large piece of property and not considering these things and what she is trying to say is it has already been considered and reviewed by the various agencies before it comes before the Council. City Manager Hooper explained the annexation occurs without any comment on the land other than it wants to come into the City. It doesn't tell them it is developable. It doesn't change any uses or densities. It is just now is under the authority of the City. Ms. Rogers questioned it already being through DCA and St. Johns. City Manager Hooper stated not at annexation time. A. Tentative Agenda Items There were no tentative agenda items to be discussed at this time. 12. ADJOURNMENT There being no further business to discuss, Councilwoman Rhodes moved to adjourn. The meeting adjourned at 9:37 p.m. Minutes submitted by: Lisa Bloomer Page -21- Council Regular Meeting September 26, 2005