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11-07-2005 - Regular \. .. ...., CITY COUNCIL OF EDGEWATER REGULAR MEETING NOVEMBER 7, 2005 7:00 P.M. COMMUNITY CENTER MINUTES 1 . CALL TO ORDER Mayor Schmidt called the Regular Meeting to order at 7:00 p.m. in the Community Center. ROLL CALL Mayor Donald Schmidt Councilman James Brown Councilman Dennis Vincenzi Councilwoman Harriet Rhodes Councilwoman Judith Lichter City Manager Kenneth Hooper City Clerk Susan Wadsworth Paralegal Robin Matusick Present Present Present Present Present Present Present Present INVOCATION, PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE There was a silent invocation and pledge of allegiance to the Flag. 2. APPROVAL OF MINUTES A. Special MeetiGg of October 12, 2005 Councilwoman Lichter moved to approve the October 12, 2005 minutes, second bv Councilman Brown. The MOTION CARRIED 5-0. 3. PRESENTATIONS/PROCLAMATIONS/PLAQUES/CERTIFICATES/DONATIONS A. Mayor Schmidt to proclaim November as "Family Month" to encourage residents to spend quality time with family members Mayor Schmidt read a proclamation recognizing November as "Family Month". '. , '-" ..""" Mayor Schmidt introduced Eric Hill, who in turn introduced his wife, Susan Hill, who read a quote from Barbara Bush, that was once said to graduates of Wesley College. Eric Hill, commented on 60 Minutes last night and Tom Brady, quarterback for the New England Patriots, who has won three Superbowls and was most valuable player in two of those Superbowls and he was asked at the end of the program, if there is anything he would rather do than win another Superbowl and he said he would rather play golf in Scotland with his mother and father than win another Superbowl. That was more enjoyable to him than winning the Superbowl. He thinks we all feel that way about our families. He challenged the Council to calendar some time during the week to have a family home evening. B. Chief Ignasiak to present a plaque to Officer Martha Miles for "Officer of the Quarter" Chief Ignasiak presented reasons why Officer Martha Miles was nominated as "Officer of the Quarter." He then presented her with a plaque. Officer Miles thanked Chief Ignasiak and commented on the pride she felt being able to return a car to an elderly couple that had been scammed. Chief Ignasiak stated Officer Tim Ball runs a series of educational informational programs for many of the crime watch groups and citizens organizations. Many of the crimes, particularly involving the elderly go unreported. He encouraged anyone who becomes aware of these things to report it so it can be investigated so our elderly citizens do not get victimized. C. Presentation by Janet Shira, B & H Consultants, Inc., for the Kennedy Park conceptual site plan City Manager Hooper made a brief staff presentation. He stated after Council agrees whichever format they will go in, the City will be seeking funding from Port Authority, the County and anyone we can obtain funding from. Jim Shira, B & H Consultants, Inc., made a presentation regarding the conceptual site plan they came up with for Kennedy Park. What they are asking for tonight is for Council to tell them they do or do not approve this as a conceptual plan. If they do then the City can start moving ahead with trying to find funding in order to actually build the project. Page -2- Council Regular Meeting November 7, 2005 '-" ~ '. Councilwoman Lichter asked if the tennis courts will no longer be there in this plan and if there are tennis courts anticipated somewhere else. Leisure Services Director Jack Corder stated at this time they have the four at Whistle Stop which they are going to be resurfacing. They could look at incorporating one at one of the other parks such as Rotary Park. They are incorporating racquetball courts at Rotary Park. That is going to be more of an activity based park out there. Councilwoman Lichter asked if there is still recognition for George Kennedy whom the park was named after. Mr. Shira informed her there would be. Right now there is a big rock with a plaque on it. They didn't show that specifically but that can be moved and incorporated into the new design. Councilwoman Lichter then asked about the wishing well, which is a very historic item in this City. Mr. Shira stated that will stay. That is near where they have shown the pavilion. Councilwoman Rhodes asked how big the pavilion is and how many picnic tables will fit under it. Mr. Shira informed her thirty feet in diameter and you could get between four and six picnic tables depending on the size of the picnic tables. Councilwoman Rhodes then asked about there only be three boat ramps. She asked if the boat ramps should be increased to accommodate future growth. City Manager Hooper stated they looked at it. It is probably limited by the number of parking places they can put there. The number of parking spaces aren't going to warrant more than three ramps. He further spoke of it being an issue to try and permit an additional ramp there. Councilwoman boat ramps. the ramps. Lichter commented on some of the developments having City Manager Hooper stated more so the slips than Councilwoman Rhodes feels there should be an additional boat ramp. She then asked what the boat house with the dock is for. Mr. Shira informed her that is for the police boat. City Manager Hooper stated that is a grant that was obtained from the Port Authority and it would house the police boat or any other function the City wants. Mayor Schmidt asked if there are any concerns with the area to be dredged. City Manager Hooper stated it is a maintenance permitting issue. The concern is not highly. It is just a routine process to get that type of dredge permit. Page -3- Council Regular Meeting November 7, 2005 .,.., ......, Councilman Vincenzi feels it looks like a good plan. thought of possibly some other use for that area but can't. Boat slips are very limited in this town and lot of boaters. He always you really there are a Councilman Vincenzi asked if the area by the road with the pavilion will be landscaped. Mr. Shira commented on what they have in mind. Councilman Vincenzi asked if there will be a barrier or divider from the road. Mr. Shira informed him they don't have anything shown but they could add something. Councilman Vincenzi expressed concern with children playing there. He feels it looks like a pretty good plan. Councilman Brown commented on the functions that go on at Kennedy Park. He feels they might need more covered areas in case of bad weather. He would also like to see a cookout area incorporated in this somewhere. He would also like to see a small playground for children to play at while their parents are getting their boats out of the water. They don't want to take it completely away from the people who want to cookout and look at the river and go fishing. Mr. Shira stated there are a couple areas on the plan where they might be able to do that. They could either make the pavilion area larger or put a cookout area or play area in the corner. Councilman Brown feels that would be an ideal place to do it. Councilwoman Rhodes commented on people wanting to hold weddings at the gazebo. She feels they need to keep that in mind when they are landscaping around it. Councilwoman Lichter asked in terms of the other parks, is there potential in the future for another ramp. City Manager Hooper stated not very much. Menard Park has water aCcess. They tried to separate the two. Menard Park is for cookouts and more children and family activities. Here you have an awful lot of vehicular traffic and people in and out. Councilwoman Lichter asked about no access at Veterans Park. City Manager Hooper commented on Veterans Park being very narrow. It is mostly fishing. Some people use the benches. He commented on the gazebo to the north being used for weddings quite a bit. Councilwoman Lichter feels it will be a nice boating park. Page -4- Council Regular Meeting November 7, 2005 ~ ~ Councilwoman Rhodes stated years ago when she went out on the boat with her father they used to launch at Kennedy Park and at that time there was a need for more ramps. She can't believe there is not a need now. City Manager Hooper agreed to look at this. There are eight or nine parking spaces per ramp. He also agreed to talk to the Port Authority. City Manager Hooper stated with the rest of it what he thinks he hears Council saying is consensus wise they are okay with it. They will have an authorization to go to design. Many of the grants they will be applying for want you to have permits in hand and some final engineering in hand. They are looking at major matches. As soon as the plans are done, they can apply for some of these grants. Councilwoman Rhodes stated she would be a little leery on making it too kid friendly. City Manager Hooper stated they would bring back to Council the authorization to do the final design. It was the consensus of Council to move forward. 4. CITIZEN COMMENTS The following citizens spoke: David Chess, 209 Oak Branch Drive, stated he is interested to know if there will be a fish cleaning station at Kennedy Park. Mr. Shira stated they don't have a fish cleaning station explicitly shown but that could be in the area where the information kiosk is or it could be just to the west of the ramps. They certainly could put something like that in there. Councilwoman Rhodes asked who would take care of that. City Manager Hooper stated you see those frequently at public facilities. It's not as bad as you would think. Mike Visconti, 316 Pine Breeze Drive, stated back on August 16, 1996 he went out and raised enough money to put a fountain on SR 442 at a cost of $5,000. Since they have widened SR 442 it was taken down and put aside and nothing is being done with it. He has kept his mouth shut for the past three years about where they could put this fountain. He never got any satisfaction from anybody. He feels the fountain could be incorporated somewhere at Kennedy Park and commented on it not being mentioned. Page -5- Council Regular Meeting November 7, 2005 . ..,.. ....., Mr. Visconti further stated they dedicated this fountain to Dominick Fazzone and at that time Mayor Hayman was Mayor and he helped a great deal doing what they did with it. Since then it has been at the City garage probably deteriorating. He would like to see someone put their foot down and say let's do it or don't do it. He would like to know what is going to happen to it because he put a lot of blood and sweat in it and he would like to see it done before he passes away. Councilwoman Rhodes stated let's do it. in there somewhere. She thinks it would fit City Manager Hooper stated they talked of putting it at Menard Park and some other places. It was pretty damaged when it came out of there so he isn't sure they have any remaining use of it. Leisure Services Director Jack Corder stated this has been talked about at the Leisure Services Board on several occasions. The Board recommended over two years ago to put it in at Hawks Park when they did the arboretum area there. That is where they are planning on putting it. They just received funding to proceed with that area. Within the next year, that area will be developed. Tracv Card, 3035 Orange Tree Drive, asked if everyone saw her October 3rd letter that she mailed. She asked which insurance company insures the City and the various members of the Board and the Department Heads of the City for property insurance. Mayor Schmidt asked why. Ms. Card stated she thought it was public information. She stated it might be a conflict because they are having problems with an insurance company and they are having a problem with the City doing what they think it should be doing based on their insurance company. Ms. Card was informed PGIT. Ms. Card proceeded to read a prepared statement and presented a brief synopsis of the events as they related to the damages to her home from the hurricanes last year. Mayor Schmidt asked for a staff report at this time. City Manager Hooper then made a presentation on behalf of staff. Page -6- Council Regular Meeting November 7, 2005 ~ ....", Councilwoman Rhodes stated apparently the crux of this whole situation is that nobody has decided if this house falls under the 50/50 rule or not. She questioned Ms. Card stating that she had an appraiser come out and asked why the appraiser didn't assess the value of her house. Ms. Card stated the way she understands the Florida Building Code Mr. Fischer is the one to make that decision. Councilwoman Rhodes informed her she was wrong. She has had her house appraised. The appraiser told her what her house was worth. Why didn't your appraiser tell you what your house was worth? Then you could decide which part of the 50/50 rule it fell under and then you could make a building permit. It seems to be it is relatively simple. Ms. Card stated she finally got an answer from City Manager Hooper on October 13th that attached a memorandum from Dennis Fischer. In it he mentions this formulary for how they determine replacement costs of a building. It doesn't go by her appraisal or their taxable value, which is one of the things she has been trying to find out for a year. He says they use an amount from the ICC. Currently that amount is ninety-one seventy four. If he had that available to make this memorandum last month, why didn't he have it last year when she asked. Why didn't he have it when she brought him her contractors' estimates in January? Councilwoman Rhodes stated it is not the City's job to evaluate her house. Ms. Card stated one of the things he references is a report form the Florida Building Commission. He didn't attach that but she took the liberty of pulling it down from the Internet and it says the person who is going to make this decision is the Building Official. Councilwoman Rhodes asked City Manager Hooper if that is so. City Manager Hooper stated what occurs when you submit your permit application is the building official reviews it and determines the value it takes to repair. Until he has a permit application, he is guessing. Councilwoman Rhodes stated but the value is only of the repair. The value is not of the house itself. City Manager Hooper stated until there is a permit application on what you intend to do on the house, you don't have anything. Councilwoman Rhodes asked Ms. Card if her contract has put a value on how much it will cost to repair her house. Ms. Card informed her for the building $92,133. Councilwoman Rhodes informed her she needed to submit that in a permit and then they will be able to tell her if it is over 50% of the value of her house. Page -7- Council Regular Meeting November 7, 2005 ...... ~ Ms. Card stated she was told she had to submit two sets of signed and sealed plans. Which plans? Plans to repair it or plans to bring it up to code. How many sets of plans does she have to pay for? It is not up to her contractor to decide if the Florida Building Code applies. Councilwoman Rhodes informed her she decides. Ms. Card stated no I don't. Mayor Schmidt stated they aren't going to accomplish anything here tonight. It still sounds like it comes down to the application to get the permits before any other decisions can be made from the City's side. City Manager Hooper informed him that is correct. Mayor Schmidt asked if they can get with her to let her know exactly how many and what sets of plans she needs so she can submit those so they can get at least to that point. City Manager Hooper stated the issue is going to come down to repairs the owner wants to make. They need to submit a set of plans for those repairs. We can not tell them which set of plans it will take to restore the house. They choose the repairs they want and submit the plans. In this case, there is substantial damage. The allegation is it is probably more than 50%. Until you decide how you want to repair the house and submit an application there isn't a role for the City to determine that value. Mayor Schmidt stated so the plans they need to submit are what they want to do to the house. City Manager Hooper stated two sets. Ms. Card stated on September 14th the Building Department told her once the re-roof was completed and passed inspection, the interior storm damage permit could be issued. No building plans will be required for this permit. If no building plans are required for an interior damage permit but she has to submit signed and sealed plans before she is told if they just have to fix it or if they have to bring it to code, how much does she have to spend in engineering and architectural fees for plans before she can get a simple answer. If this is their contractor's estimate and this is the cost to repair their damages, do they fall under the 50% rule or not. The last she knew the Building Inspector was paid out of their tax money and he is available for information for questions like this. She doesn't understand why he couldn't give her the dollar amount for the replacement cost when he contractor gave her the estimate. City Manager Hooper further explained you have to submit a permit application that says the repairs you want to do before the City can take any action or reaction to it. Page -8- Council Regular Meeting November 7, 2005 '-' """" Councilwoman Rhodes commented on this being a liability issue to the City. It is not the City's place to tell Ms. Card if she should repair or demolish. Ms. Card stated she is asking Mr. Fischer to interpret the Code and how it applies based on her contractor's estimate for the cost of repairs. This is an estimate for repairs, not tear down and not bringing it to Code. This is just to fix the damage. Mayor Schmidt suggested Ms. Card, Mr. Fischer and Fire Chief Barlow get together and clarify for her exactly what she needs to turn in to satisfy what the City needs to do to go to the next step. Councilwoman Rhodes asked for them to hold off on Code citing her for her trailer. She asked if they can have a deadline of thirty days to accomplish this so she isn't violated with the trailer. City Manager Hooper informed her yes. Councilwoman Lichter stated Ms. Card has called her numerous times and they have communicated on this problem. She thinks some of the allegations should be checked out. She feels Ms. Card is an intelligent knowledgeable person. If she says Mr. Fischer has said something like move out of the City, that to her hurts. She would like City Manager Hooper to talk with him about some of these things regarding how she thinks she has been treated. She feels this is important. Councilwoman Lichter stated in terms of the legality of this. Ms. Card told her she was going to hire and you know and have been in communication with the best lawyer there is to handle this kind of thing. She assumed this was not in the process any longer. Ms. Card stated she hired a good lawyer to go after her insurance company. She was told she could not speak to City employees and had to go through their attorneys. She is not suing the City, she is suing her insurance company. Councilwoman Lichter stated she doesn't want Ms. Card to feel she has been treated with disrespect or ill advised by the City. She thinks this needs to be looked into. She also suggested City Manager Hooper be present at the meeting that will be set up. She feels it is a serious thing of having them move out of their FEMA trailer and having it taken away when they can't live in their house before a determination is made and they need a postponement on that. Mayor Schmidt asked that they proceed with that and asked that the Council be kept updated. Page -9- Council Regular Meeting November 7, 2005 -- .....,I Jeanne DelNiqro, 3130 Tamarind Drive, stated when the Council hired the Chief of Police a statement was made that he had an open door policy and no one would be refused to go into his office to sit down to talk to him. This is not happening. She had a problem and she called and she was refused to be talked to so she called City Manager Hooper. City Manager Hooper told her the Chief can pick and choose who he wants to talk to. She pays his salary like everyone of the taxpayers in here. If she has a problem or anyone else they have a right to go in and see him and talk to him. Mayor Schmidt stated he doesn't know enough of the circumstances. Chief Ignasiak stated he does have an open door policy however the law puts limits on the discussion of certain investigations, crimes and criminal acts on what can be discussed. Some information is considered confidential and some information is considered currently under investigation. When you deal with adults and you deal specifically with their cases you aren't required to share that information with their parents. As a matter of fact, in some cases you are forbidden to share that information with the parents. If the child who is an adult decides they want to share that information with a parent they may very well do that. Particularly when they are anticipating the possibility of going to court where an officer is going to testify on elements of a crime or offenses itself, it is not proper for him to discuss that case before it goes before a judge nor release any information that either the officers are going to use in prosecution or the subject themself may not be made public. Under those provisions, there are times when he refuses to talk to people because legally he can't and will not do that. Councilwoman Lichter asked if that was the situation in this case. Chief Ignasiak informed her yes. Ms. DelNigro informed him he was wrong. She called him to let him know there were drugs being sold and where they were being sold. She didn't call him about anything else and she was refused to come in to talk to him. Every taxpayer pays their salary. If you have an open door policy, you open that door and let people in. If it is a problem you can't discuss, when the person gets there then you say to that person I'm sorry we can't discuss that but listen to the person as to what they have to come in and tell you. What he just said, she knows what she was going in to talk to him about. Plus, he turned away two other residents. Page -10- Council Regular Meeting November 7, 2005 ~ ~ Ms. DelNigro stated she wished they would have come tonight because they are upset about him with his open door policy. Either he is going to have an open door or he is going to have an open door for certain people. Which is it going to be? Mayor Schmidt stated he thinks Chief Ignasiak stated how the open door policy is. Ms. DelNigro stated if you don't have that door open and hear the person out as to what they are going to talk about, where is the open door policy. Councilwoman Rhodes sta~ed he does have the right to not talk to anybody he wants to but he should talk to you. He should find out what you want. He is here for our safety. There are some things he doesn't need to be bothered with. Ms. DelNigro stated drug deals aren't public safety. Councilwoman Rhodes stated absolutely they are. She asked Ms. DelNigro if she told him that. Ms. DelNigro stated she didn't get a chance. She was told she couldn't speak to him. Mayor Schmidt asked if it was told to whoever she spoke to. Ms. DelNigro stated they wouldn't give her a chance. She called City Manager Hooper. She informed him she wanted to talk to Chief Ignasiak. It has nothing to do with a certain item. City Manager Hooper informed her he has a right not to talk to her. Mayor Schmidt asked if she ever stated to City Manager Hooper that it had to do with drug deals. Ms. DelNigro stated no, they would not give me the opportunity to tell him. Councilwoman Rhodes stated you didn't tell him you wanted to talk to the Chief about a drug deal in my neighborhood. Ms. DelNigro stated she told JoAnn, his secretary. She informed her she had to contact City Manager Hooper. She stated she did call City Manager Hooper. City Manager Hooper stated she called him and asked to talk about the five tickets her son got. Ms. DelNigro stated she wasn't talking about the tickets. This was a while ago. She informed City Manager Hooper she doesn't just make up stories. Councilwoman Rhodes asked Ms. DelNigro to document it if it happens in the future and contact someone on the Council and they will keep up with it. Ms. DelNigro asked if Chief Ignasiak is going to have an open door policy and if it will be open to every citizen of Edgewater. Councilwoman Rhodes and Mayor Schmidt informed her yes. Ms. DelNigro stated her son did receive five tickets from the cops last week. She didn't call him last week and she didn't talk to City Manager Hooper last week. Page -11- Council Regular Meeting November 7, 2005 ~ ,.."" City Manager Hooper stated she talked to him about that. Ms. DelNigro stated she told him they were bls tickets. Mayor Schmidt stated there is an open door policy. It just needs to be stated up front. There are so many legalities nowadays. Ms. DelNigro doesn't think it is right that they are told they can't go in and talk to him because he doesn't want to talk to you when he doesn't even know what you want to talk to him about. Mayor Schmidt stated that is more of a reason to be up front and inform him what it is about. Ms. DelNigro stated she couldn't get the opportunity to tell him. Councilwoman Lichter stated but you told the secretary. Ms. DelNigro stated she told her to get a hold of City Manager Hooper. Councilwoman Rhodes stated you should be able to call his secretary and make an appointment to see him. If you have vital criminal news, she would call 911. Ms. DelNigro stated the news she had you couldn't call 911. Councilwoman Rhodes stated then she should have told his secretary. Ms. DelNigro stated she wasn't going to get into that part. She wanted Chief Ignasiak to tell her he had an open door policy and if you have a problem you call me. She doesn't want to hear he doesn't have to talk to her because of an incident that happened that it didn't have anything to do with. Mayor Schmidt stated they all heard him say he does have an open door policy. Councilwoman Rhodes asked Ms. DelNigro if she has yet to tell him about the drug dealer. Ms. DelNigro stated she hasn't had a chance to talk to him. Councilwoman Rhodes suggested she do that. Ms. DelNigro stated she would. Rav Anderson, 1906 S. Riverside Drive, asked if there were any violations on the No Name Saloon during Bike Week. He was informed there was one. He asked City Clerk Wadsworth for a copy of the report and the hourly report as well. Mr. Anderson stated the noise levels are still there from time to time. They get loud most of the time it's okay. Some changes were made this year. He met with the Dollar Store people this week and they are starting construction this week. The next two months it will be under construction. By Bike Week, that building should be completed, which will solve some of the problems. His interpretation of the Special Event permitting with outside entertainment goes way back along with that is the P.A. system. They are integrated and he doesn't believe they should be separated. We had that off the docket and it was requested by the owners of the No Name Saloon to have the P.A. system put back in operation. Page -12- Council Regular Meeting November 7, 2005 ~ ....., Mr. Anderson stated the problem is after 9:00 p.m. there is no Code enforcement people monitoring P.A. systems. To make a call at midnight to 911 because of the noise isn't going to work. He suggested if they are going to have P.A. systems you have to have a Code Enforcement person on duty on station because by the time you make the call it is over with. He asked Council to reinstate that ruling that the P.A. system now not be separated from the permitting and be one in the same and be subject to the same curfew hours. Mr. Anderson asked for the Council to consider putting Special Events on the next ballot and put it up to a vote. They are the elected representatives and the Council doesn't really know how the people are thinking. He would like to see it put on the ballot or make some effort whether they want special eventing permitted or not. A lot of people won't say a word against it under any circumstances. They live with it or leave town. He would like to see it voted on. If everyone votes it back in or that they really want special permitting and to turn the City into an event driven City and the center of Edgewater happens to be the No Name Saloon, let them vote it in and he will then shut up. Fav Levine, 4588 Lake James Circle, stated this Council and the next one coming in have a lot of decisions in the future. She wanted to comment on the 1st readings of Items C, D & F. There is a lot of development coming on U.S. #1 south of Roberts Road. She asked what they are planning for the future and questioned where the schools are being built and where the support services are for all of these people. She lives directly south of the proposed Worthington Creek. Drainage problems in Shady Oaks are bad. She mentioned this being a County problem but feels the Council must be aware of density, schools, U.S. #1 traffic and support services for all of the populations they are allowing in. Nothing is being built except Coral Trace which she understands is having problems already. She questioned where the schools are for those children. She comes from a planned City. She moved in there in 1971 with less than 14,000 people. Ten percent of the County was made into a City which is now 125,000 people. She lived there for twenty-six years and everything was planned and orderly. Hard decisions had to be made by the governing County Council. She informed the Council they are going to have to make hard decisions on the development of Edgewater. She came to this area because it was rural in aspect and because of its family emphasis. Page -13- Council Regular Meeting November 7, 2005 '-" ..""" Ms. Levine encouraged Council to look towards the future in regards to drainage problems, traffic and services. They went to the Planning Board with their problems. They have listened to the developer. His site plan of Worthington Creek is doing one- story homes on the edge of the ditch. He is going to put a buffer. They are anxiously awaiting the final site plan. She again encouraged the Council to look towards the future of Edgewater and towards the future of future citizens. She isn't totally against this subdivision and would like to see lower density. They seem to have their act together and they know what they are doing. She is looking at the overall picture for the Council for the City because she is right at the border. Maybe someday they will annex her subdivision. She doesn't know if she wants to be annexed or not. She again asked the Council to look and be responsible citizens for Edgewater. John Cordeiro, Pine Tree Drive, stated well I guess everyone has gotten their new tax bills by now. The high tax just doesn't line up with the campaign propaganda you have been hearing from the three people that want to get re-elected. His taxes are up to $2,100 plus $300 for flood insurance because this Council has let builders build in flood zones all because of the almighty dollar. Mayor Schmidt asked him how much his City taxes went up. Mr. Cordeiro again stated his taxes are $2,100 plus $300 for flood insurance. Mayor Schmidt again asked him how much his City taxes went up. Mr. Cordeiro stated that is twice as much as he was paying for a bigger house in Pembroke Pines. How can I afford to live here on $1,400 per month social security? Councilwoman Lichter stated that is based on the property value of your home. Mr. Cordeiro stated he hears all this propaganda stuff. Councilwoman Lichter stated it is knowledge and they all pay taxes too. Mr. Cordeiro stated he left Pembroke Pines three years ago where he had a bigger house and a pool. His taxes were $1,200. Now it is costing him $2,400. He can not afford this with his monthly social security. He corrmented on all the houses for sale in Edgewater. He feels the City is forcing residents to leave because they can not afford to live here anymore. Going door to door campaigning he heard this over and over from different people talking about it so it isn't only him. He asked the Council if they are all proud of themselves~ Four more years and Edgewater will be completely destroyed. It won't stop if you people get re-elected. He feels it is time for a big change. Page -14- Council Regular Meeting November 7, 2005 ..... """" Domdnic Capria, 606 Topside Circle, stated when the budget was made did they consider the dollars that they were to bring in because of new developments. The City of Edgewater got more money than any city in the County to the amount of $72,200, which he is assuming went into the reserves. Was any of this considered when they did the budget. We knew we were going to get extra dollars. If they consider that they could have possibly reduced the millage rate. Was the $72,200 considered? Mayor Schmidt stated they didn't consider it because they didn't know about it. That came about after October 1st after all the decisions had been made. We weren't the only city. We just happened to be the one that the numbers coming from the Tax Appraiser's office were the farthest off. They consider looking to the future on the numbers that arrive from growth. They can't consider those in the budget if they aren't hard numbers sitting in front of them. They can't assume they are going to get something they don't have in front of them. The Tax Appraiser's office made an error, which allotted to about $72,000. Mr. Capria stated he was told by City Manager Hooper that once this is passed you can't change it but according to the article in the newspaper you can change it even after October 1st. City Manager Hooper explained July 1st the Property Appraiser tells them what their tax revenue or income is going to be. The Council sets the millage that is put out. You get a preliminary tax notice and then about the 1st of September comes a final to them. The final says you adopt that tax roll and here is how much money you are going to get. This Council adopted that. Twenty-four hours notice the Property Appraiser said there were a few changes and there is a $72,000 difference. That was his solely his choice to say after October 1st you can't go back and you can't lower it and it went into the reserves. Mr. Capria stated something is definitely wrong with the system. If that extra money is going to be there, something should be done to be able to help the citizens of Edgewater. City Manager Hooper stated it went into reserves to help the citizens of Edgewater. Mr. Capri a stated you have to know that there is going to be some kind of tax dollars. Page -15- Council Regular Meeting November 7, 2005 '--' ....., Pat Card, 3019 Willow Oak Drive, stated we have an election tomorrow. He thanked the people who have worked hard for the length of time they have been on the Council. Whether you are on the Council tomorrow or not doesn't change that. It took a great deal of determination on their part to be willing to put up with the kind of crap they put up with here. Some of it coming from him. Goodness knows he hasn't always agreed with the Council but he has always respected everyone of them. He thanked the Council for all the work they have done. Michael Armento, 2519 Vista Palm Drive, commented on storm drains being plugged up and the water starting to back up. He asked if the residents are supposed to clean them out or does the City clean those out. Mayor Schmidt asked Mr. Armento to get with Director of Environmental Services Director Terry Wadsworth. Mr. Armento doesn't want to see the problem get any worse. He agreed to help them clean them out. If they don't pitch in and take care of the problem this could be a potential problem later on. Councilwoman Rhodes told him in the future if this happens he can contact the Public Works Department. There was a ten-minute recess at this time. at 8:20 and reconvened at 8:30 p.m. The meeting recessed 5. CITY COUNCIL REPORTS Councilwoman Lichter commented on Smart Growth. The Committee was formed by the County and they had Mayors on it, the Chamber of Commerce, Builders, the League of Women Voters, the County people, the School Board, Environmental Counsel was on it. It was a stew of many elements of Volusia County. The Workshops they held brought to light the areas that they know are important in terms of growth. You can not stop people from utilizing their land in a proper manner. You can not put a gate around Florida. She gets phone calls in her district from people that moved in three months ago and they don't want anyone else to move in. They came up with a document that is somewhat of a compromise but very much emphasizes green spaces, open spaces and has a toolbox that gives certain thoughts to clustering. It also had other interesting tools like combining open spaces between two cities. There was a workshop where representatives of Port Orange, New Smyrna, and Edgewater attended. Page -16- Council Regular Meeting November 7, 2005 '-" ....", Councilwoman Lichter feels this is a very vital thing. She clarified they all care about wetlands and this being a domain of St. John's also. There are five or six permitting processes that everything they do has to go through. She doesn't feel the workshop was sufficient for this City. She asked City Manager Hooper to plan another workshop and try to encourage all of the Planning and Zoning Board members as well as the Council to come and open it up to the public also. She would also like to hear from Clay Henderson because of his interest in conservation. Mayor Schmidt encouraged everyone to get out and vote tomorrow. During the Primary only 11.3% out of 15,000 people voted. He has had fun over the past six years and he would like to see another four. He has enjoyed wholeheartedly representing this City on whatever Board he happened to be on. Councilman Brown congratulated all the people that are running. It has been a very clean election. Nobody has been tearing anybody's signs down too much. Nobody has been slinging any mud. He feels they have progressed along way from a few years back the way elections used to be run in this City. He encouraged everyone to get out and vote and he hoped they would vote for him. Councilman Vincenzi stated they don't have to vote for him tomorrow because he has two more years before he has to fight. He encouraged the people to vote. This is the citizens shot to say if they like what is going on or not. Councilwoman Rhodes stated she truly enjoyed serving on the Council as well until tonight. She appreciated all the good work that everybody has done. They can't do anything if they don't know the problem and if the citizens don't fight with them. She has appreciated the sense of community we have in Edgewater while she has been on the Council. She also encouraged the people to get out and vote. 6. PUBLIC HEARINGS, ORDINANCES AND RESOLUTIONS A. Public Hearing, Nancy Hansen of Edgewater United Methodist Church, 211 N. Ridgewood Avenue, requesting a Special Activity permit for "Christmas Under the Palms" to be held December 10, 2005, from 9:00 a.m. to 4:00 p.m. City Manager Hooper made a staff presentation. Page -17- Council Regular Meeting November 7, 2005 '-' """" Due to there being no comments, Mayor Schmidt opened and closed the public hearing. Nancy Hansen, Edgewater United Methodist Church, promised not to have any outside bands. Counci~woman Lichter moved to approve the Specia~ Activitv Permit :for "Christmas Under the Pa~" to be he~d December 10, 2005, :from 9:00 a.m. to 4:00 p.m. at the Edqewater United Methodist Church, second bv Counci~woman Rhodes. The MOTION CARRIED 5-0. Mayor Schmidt stated with Council's pleasure he would like to move up Items 9C1, C2 and C3. Councilwoman Rhodes suggested on the agenda from now on that funding requests comes right after Proclamations and Plaques so these people don't have to sit through two hours before their requests can be heard. C. Request for Funding 1) SCORE requesting $1,500 to continue their program of counseling entrepreneurs and small businesses City Manager Hooper made a staff presentation. Counci~woman Rhodes moved to approve SCORE's request xor xundinq in the amount ox $1,500 to continue their program ox counse~ing entrepreneurs and sma~~ businesses, second bv Counci~n Vincenzi. The MOTION CARRIED 5-0. 2) Thomas Meeks requesting a donation to help fund a trip to Europe sponsored by "The People to People Student Ambassador Program" Thomas Meeks commented on "The People to People Student Ambassador Program". Mayor Schmidt asked Mr. Meeks how is fund raising was going. Mr. Meeks reported he had close to $1,000. Page -18- Council Regular Meeting November 7, 2005 '-' ., , Councilwoman Lichter asked Mr. Meeks if he was at Drug Free Youth and if he was in the band. Mr. Meeks informed her he was. Mayor Schmidt asked Mr. Meeks to present a report to Council when he gets back from his trip. He agreed to show Council a slide show when he returns. Councilwoman Rhodes asked Mr. Meeks how old he was. Mr. Meeks informed her he is twelve years old but would be turning thirteen on November 16th. Councilman Vincenzi asked Mr. Meeks how much his trip will cost. Mr. Meeks informed him $6,000. Councilman Vincenzi then asked him how much he has raised. Mr. Meeks informed him $1,400. Counci~woman Lichter moved to approve the amount of $600.00 to he~p fund a trip to Europe sponsored bv "The Peop~e to Peop~e Student Ambassador Proqram" for Thomas Meeks, second bv Counci~woman Rhodes. The MOTION CARRIED 5-0. 3 ) Project Graduation New Smyrna Beach High School Class of 2006 requesting a donation to help fund a graduaticn night celebration Larry Butt, Graduation, 1603 S. Riverside Drive, representing Project elaborated en what Project Graduation is. Councilwoman Lichter asked if they had gone on a cruise last year. Mr. Butt informed her the cruise got a little stuffy and the boat only holds 150 people. At Daytona Lagoon they can hold the whole graduating class if they wanted to come. Councilman Vincenzi asked Mr. Butt what other funding they have received so far. Mr. Butt informed him they are looking at about a total cost of $15,000. They have raised about $3,500. Councilman Vincenzi asked if New Smyrna has given them anything yet. Mr. Butt informed him they haven't been there yet but they are coming up soon. Councilman Vincenzi asked him how much they are planning on asking them for. Mr. Butt informed him everything he can get his hands on. Page -19- Council Regular Meeting November 7, 2005 .... ...., Counci~woman Rhodes moved to approve the amount of $600 for Proiect Graduation New Smyrna Beach High Schoo~ C~ass of 2006 to help fund a qraduation niqht celebration, second bv Councilwoman Lichter. The MOTION CARRIED 5-0. B. 2nd Reading, Ord. No. 2005-0-38, Ernestina Kayat requesting an amendment to the Official Zoning Map to include 37.26~ acres of land located west of 4100 S. US1 and west of Relocation Road as 1-1 (Light Industrial) , Reading 6/20/05, Item 6J Paralegal Matusick read Ord. 2005-0-38 into the record. City Manager Hooper made a staff presentation. Councilwoman Rhodes stated there are no plans for this at this time. City Manager Hooper informed her that was correct. Mayor Schmidt opened the public hearing. Ken Donahey, Attorney for Ernestina Kayat, stated this came in as Light Industrial and they would like to keep it that way and there are no plans for it at this time. Counci~woman Rhodes moved to approve Ord. 2005-0-38, Ernestina Kavat requesting an amendment to the Officia~ Zoninq Map to inc~ude 37.26+ acres of land ~ocated west of 4100 S. US1 and west of Relocation Road as I-l (Liqht Industria~), second bv Counci~woman Lichter. The MOTION CARRIED 5-0. c. pt Reading, Ord. No. 2005-0-49, Glenn Storch, agent for Worthington Creek Investment, Inc. requesting an amendment to the Official Zoning Map to include 155.64~ acres of land located west of US1 and northwest of William Street as RPUD (Residential Planned Unit Development) and approval of associated RPUD Agreement Paralegal Matusick read Ord. 2005-0-49 into the record. City Manager Hooper made a staff presentation. Page -20- Council Regular Meeting November 7, 2005 ..... ...., Councilwoman Rhodes asked if this is low density, three houses per acre. City Manager Hooper informed her that is correct. Councilwoman Rhodes the~ questioned Florida shores being five houses per acre. City Manager Hooper informed her Florida Shores averages about four houses per acre. Councilman Brown questioned them projecting to have 25% open space left. City Manager Hooper stated that is the requirement. Councilman Brown asked about the animal shelter being a voluntary impact and a voluntary stormwater impact. City Manager Hooper stated a basin assessment fee. Councilman Brown stated they don't have to pay that. City Manager Hooper informed him that is correct. Councilman Brown stated hopefully they will. City Manager Hooper stated the agreement says they will. Councilman Vincenzi stated the total acreage is what. City Manager Hooper informed him 155 acres. Councilman Vincenzi stated and the density is three per acre. He feels that is pretty good. Councilman Vincenzi asked how much of that area is not really useable as it stands right now. City Manager Hooper stated there is very little floodplain and a few wetlands on this site. They have had so~e preliminary analysis of that. To accommodate drainage it has retention ponds. He further commented on how the drainage works. Overall this site is not heavily intense in floodplain and has some scattered wetlands. Councilwoman Rhodes stated what if it is not a 25-year storm event but an afternoon thunderstorm. City Manager Hooper stated it doesn't leave the site. Councilman Vincenzi stated how much is buildable as it is. City Manager Hooper stated all of it is buildable but you still have to retain. It will take up about 25% of the property to handle it's drainage and right-of-way. Councilman Vincenzi stated so the green space everybody is talking about is. City Manager Hooper stated open space. Councilman Vincenzi stated is that the retention ponds and questioned where it is. Councilman Vincenzi stated he thinks it is a decent plan. He thinks smart growth has a lot of good aspects to it. He also thinks it has a lot of misleading aspects to it. He then questioned there being 436 units. City Manager Hooper informed him that is correct. Councilman Vincenzi then questioned 25% being open space. Glenn Storch stated 25% is required to be open space. Page -21- Council Regular Meeting November 7, 2005 ~ ~ Glenn Storch, law firm of Storch, Morris and Harris, representing the applicant, introduced himself. Councilman Vicnenzi asked where the open space is. Attorney Storch stated the open space is the total lake areas, the total retention areas and the green areas they are preserving. Councilman Vincenzi asked what the green areas are. Attorney Storch stated they are probably wetland areas they are preserving as well as some other areas. There is not that much unuseable property on the site. There are only about 11 acres of wetlands on the site altogether. To a large extent this is a site that works out very well. They have worked very closely with staff on this. The nice thing is this a PUD so you have a development agreement where you incorporate all the agreements and understanding between staff and the land owner in the development agreement and those become absolute required and mandated. Councilman Vincenzi asked Attorney Storch to explain to him the concept of clustering and why houses are clustered. Attorney Storch stated as a general rule when they are dealing with more intense clustering and more intense smart growth concepts you are taking a rural area and clustering and putting the residential area in a single area and then preserving large areas of green space, usually somewhere in the vicinity of 50%. This is not a typical smart growth cl~stering concept. This is more an urban growth area. Councilman Vincenzi stated typical clustering concept ideally would involve clustering houses to preserve about 50% open green space. Attorney Storch stated if you are in a rural area. Councilman Vincenzi stated this is getting to not be rural. Attorney Storch stated this has urban services, water and sewer. A majority of the open space in this case is the lakes and retention areas. Councilman Vincenzi stated a lot of people think you are preserving green space. You aren't really preserving green space. You are digging retention ponds, preserving wetlands and doing a bunch of different stuff but a lot of it is things you have to do anyway and what you are doing is clustering buildings in order to raise the density but when you take the density overall over the whole l~roperty it still ends up being low density. Page -22- Council Regular Meeting November 7, 2005 ..... -...( Attorney Storch stated in this case their overall density, which is gross density, which is how you apply it, you take the entire site and you put the number of units on the site and then determine the density. Their density in this case is less than three. It is 2.8 units per acre based on 436. If you take out the retention areas and the open space areas, you are still looking at only 4.11 units per acre. This is not really intense clustering in this case. What they are doing is providing a well designed subdivision with quite a bit of floodwater protection and retention area protection which is the right way to do it. This is what they should be doing. One of the concerns that was raised regarding this particular project was to some of the neighbors to the south in Shady Oaks, who were concerned because they are having flooding problems at this point. They wanted to avoid having any impact on them and their flooding problems. If anything they want to de something that would help alleviate some of those flooding problems. He feels they have probably over designed for flooding on this site. As a result, during a 25 year storm event, everything would be held on site immediately. Once you get beyond that, you still have most of the water that will be held on site that will go into the roads and the road systems as opposed to geing offsite. That is what they have tried to design around. One of the advantages of a PUD, is you can look at your site and look at your neighbors, and find ways of resolving issues between you and your neighbors and also create a subdivision that will maintain its value. They have put landscaping buffers and potential burms adjacent to the neighborhood. They have met with the neighbors repeatedly as a means of trying to deal with their issues that presently exist that have nothing to do with them but still trying to deal with their issues. He has met personally with the Public Works Director for Volusia County to see if there is some way of dealing with their issue. These are things they can do because they want to be a good neighbor. As far as maintaining value and increasing value for the City, some of the things they have done is created covenants and restrictions on this site. This is a gated, private road subdivision. There will be a homeowners association that will require the subdivision to be maintained in a proper manner. All the stormwater systems, lakes and roads will have to be maintained by the homeowners association. Councilman Vincenzi stated that is standard nowadays. It never used to be twenty-years ago. Attorney Storch stated it's important because if it is done right it will help the City maintain its value and the residents maintain the value of their investment. Page -23- Council Regular Meeting November 7, 2005 .... ...., 'It Attorney Storch stated ~hey have also voluntarily agreed to contributions to the animal shelter at $100 per unit, which will total over $43,000. They have also agreed to provide a $100 per unit contribution toward a floodwater study, which is another $43,000. He further commented on Mike Evans and Forte Macaulay being responsible land owners and developers and he likes working with them because they try to solve problems. With a PUD and a development agreement that you work out between the City and the land owner, that is how you solve those problems. Councilman Vincenzi again stated he felt they did a great job. He feels the additional money for the animal shelter and floodwater study is wonderful. He feels it is heading in the right direction. He will probably vote for it, even though he doesn't like the small lots. He expressed concern about other issues such as schools. He asked if any initiative has been taken to address the problems of future crowding and roadways. This is how development kills a City if you don't plan for these things coming up. City Manager Hooper stated they have been in contact with the School Board. They don't have a site but they have identified that they are looking between Oak Hill, Edgewater and New Smyrna to locate additional elementary and middle school sites. They have a middle school site on SR 442 and Airpark that is to be developed in four to five years. They have additional school capacity in the immediate vicinity. The School Board has okayed this and said this is acceptable with the commitment that Edgewater, Oak Hill and New Smyrna work to find other sites. These folks will be paying impact fees for schools and roads. They are paying their fair share. Councilman Vincenzi stated this is what he has been trying to get through to City Manager Hooper for a year or two is that these developers come in and in addition to building houses and increasing population trey have to add something more for the City and he feels this is a good start. Attorney Storch agreed with that win-win concept. They are also contributing to the median improvements and median landscaping at the entrance to this feature. During the Planning Board meeting they discussed looking at the City's transportation network in that area, perhaps extending Airpark. He suggested they bring this before the MPO so that as the building continues in this area they encourage that construction. Page -24- Council Regular Meeting November 7, 2005 '-'" ..., City Manager Hooper further commented on their paying for capital improvements. He spoke of the medians the City has done the improvements to. The cheap part is putting in the improvements. The expensive part is maintaining them. These folks are putting in those improvements and the homeowners association is maintaining the medians immediately north and south of the intersection. Mayor Schmidt opened the public hearing. The following citizens spoke: Pat Card, 3019 Willow Oak Drive, stated Attorney Storch came to him this evening and one of the concerns that he has always had has been the north south relief to U.S. #1. He pressed these people pretty hard at Planning and Zoning. They have started talking to people at the County now about this. He told him this this evening. He appreciated that and he wanted Council to know it because that was the primary reason that he was pressing hard not to approve this was because he hadn't seen any movement from anybody on the north south alternative to U.S. #1. We are seeing some movement. They have to utilize their developers to bring the pressure to bare and through the MPO the Council can work and start this. These people are very influential in the County and he pressed them and did not vote in favor of this because they had not shown him any movement from the first time they talked about this. They have shown him some movement and he recommended Council vote in favor of this. Mike Visconti, 316 Pine Breeze Drive, stated he lives on a retention pond in Meadow Lake. The mistake that was made there is there is no entranceway to the common area from anywhere in Meadow Lake but on 28th Street and Roberts Road. He recommended if they are going to have retention ponds instead of building all those houses close make sure there is a right-of-way going to those retention ponds in the common area. Dot Car~son, 1714 Edgewater Drive, representing ECARD, stated she is seeing a lot of blue space which is retention. She isn't seeing a lot of wildlife corridor unless it is flying in or swimming in. She asked if any of this water is moving or will it be stagnant. City Manager Hooper stated most of it flows. These are retention ponds that have outfalls to those canals. Those canals run north and south. It takes the water south to a canal south of Ariel Road. Each of these retain water. They equalize among themselves and then they pop off into those two canals. Page -25- Council Regular Meeting November 7, 2005 -- ..""" Frank ~berson, 4602 Lake James Circle, Shady Oaks, presented City Clerk Wadsworth with two photos to reflect on the screen for everyone to see. One of the photos was his backyard under normal conditions and one of the photos was what it looked like after the rains in October 2001, which will show they do have a flooding problem. If they can contain their water, great. They can not afford to have any more water. The ditches where they are going to drain down to were put there as mosquito ditches and they do not take care of the water they have now. They don't drain now like they should. He would like this to be considered when the Council votes on this. He asked for some protection for the people that have lived there for a long time that have houses that were not built up four foot above the road when they were built. They just can't take more water. Councilwoman Rhodes stated she understands that by whatever they do they can't make it worse for anybody around them. Everybody that builds in this City can not make the drainage worse for the people around them. If they do, they will have to fix it. She asked if it would be helpful to put it in the agreement so these people can be at ease that they have recourse should it make their flooding worse. City Manager Hooper stated in essence it is in the agreement. He stated the problem is this was developed prior to a lot of rules. This is a closed basin. The water in this whole subdivision goes to one spot. It fills up and there is no outfall. It is net connected to the mosquito control ditches. If it were, that would eliminate some of the problems. He talked to a gentleman that had an idea about some of that. He thinks they can talk further with the County and they can talk with staff. There are a few solutions that are pretty simple to do. It may take some easements. Just to have this as a positive outfall will help to eliminate some of their problems. What they are doing has no impact on this whatsoever. Councilwoman Rhodes stated these people are sitting here and have been told by government officials that something was going to happen and it didn't happen. Or it gets down the road and nobody has responsibility. She thinks something in the contract that lets the homeowners around them know that if they do make it worse they have to fix it. City Manager Hooper stated they can put simple pre-post conditions will remain the same. Page -26- Council Regular Meeting November 7, 2005 ..... .."" Mr. Alberson stated they have had several acres in there that were wetlands where water accumulated. People came in and bought it and built it and the County has made them build their houses way up. He understands they are supposed to have something like a moat around so the water doesn't run from their houses to the road and into other people's property. He spoke of people bringing in fill dirt that was not supposed to be brought in and nothing ever being done about it. Councilwoman Lichter stated when the developer leaves things are turned over the homeowners association. They are talking about something that obliges the builder to have responsibility forever when really they are talking about the homeowners keeping up with whatever it is they have to clean and whatever work they have to do. That has to be looked into a little bit more. Very often, after fifteen years in a homeowners group, the first people forget to pass the papers onto the next people and there is trouble with them even understanding when they move from someplace else what a wetland is. That really has to be thoroughly investigated of whose responsibility it is. Councilwoman Rhodes stated the homeowner's association is responsible for all of those things after the developer leaves so it needs to be in the homeowner covenants. City Manager Hooper stated it is. Councilwoman Lichter stated not in the developer's worry forever. Councilwoman Rhodes stated she thinks it should be in there for them too because they have a responsibility up until the homeowners association takes over. Councilwoman Lichter stated it is. Councilwoman Rhodes stated she knows but it should be in English. Jack Hayman, County Councilman, stated the Volusia County Council has been very concerned about flooding throughout the County. This has not been a good year for rain and stormwater management. Last year wasn't a very good year either. The one benefit from all of this has been a heightened awareness and understanding of the fact that they do have a very big stormwater management problem in this county. They are fortunate in that their cities have been working very collaboratively with their staff and they are working day and night to get together to create multiple stormwater basins throughout the County. It is not something they can develop over night. There has been some benign neglect to the existing mosquito control and stormwater management systems they have throughout the County. The history of some of them is dubious at best but they end up by default getting it because they have to move the water. Page -27- Council Regular Meeting November 7, 2005 'W ...." County Councilman Hayman stated one of the problems they deal with is moving the water and not being able to put it in the river anymore. They are constrained because of the problems with the impurities and solids that are not good for the water quality in the pristine river. He commented on people in this area that have contacted him about their concerns regarding what the water is going to do on this property. He plans on working with the City Planning Department and the City Manager with their planning and growth management department, particularly their engineers with stormwater management and they are going to get together and look at this project and all the other projects in Southeast Volusia to make sure they have an understanding of what they have to do on their side of it when it comes to them. It is a collaborative effort. It is something they have to do together. With regard to this project, it looks like they are planning for it. They will be asking the engineers to take the additional step to show them. He commented on homeowners associations being interesting things. He commented on the homeowners association in the Spruce Creek Fly In. Each subdivision in Volusia County has a slightly different covenant and restriction. The important thing is if when they finish that it passes muster of the City. The City Engineers accept it and then they have the strings attached and Edgewater has a superb City Manager to do just that because that is his business and he brings great expertise to the table. Before the City accepts the roads, the stormwater and all the other things there, there will be an exhaustive study to it. The County will be working with them. Volusia County will be involved in helping the City to help them manage their part of the water. The Volusia County Council has made a commitment that they have got to get a hold of this water. The engineers are going to be held accountable for their work. If they have a site plan and they have a lot of them in Volusia County and the engineer said it would work and it didn't, they are going to start holding those people accountable. The agreements they have who is to say they can't be held accountable for five to fifteen years or some performance standard that is measurable in terms of inches of rain or incidents of rain. They realize they haven't done as good a job as perhaps they should have but they are here to work with the City. He knows they are going to do this and he knows it is going to work. Page -28- Council Regular Meeting November 7, 2005 + . "-" ..""" Fav Levine, 4588 Lake James Circle, pointed out the historical ditches and stated her house is right south of that. They tell her the retention ponds are going to have these massive concrete things and little bit ex-amount of water will go in when the retention ponds go up the water is going to go in there and then it gets pumped out of the lakes and pumped into the drainage ditches. Along the south boundary of their property is the north boundary of Shady Oaks. It is a mosquito control ditch that hasn't been cleaned out in five years. They say it won't come out but they are worried because it can overflow that. She worries about how much water is going to be put into those ditches that are going to come down and when it starts is the east-west ditch going to handle it all. She isn't recommending they defeat this tonight but she would like the Council to know exactly what is going on with the site plan because they are worried. She has a little island that is in the lake that the surveyor says she owns. She hasn't seen it since June 1st. It is under water. She questioned how much water will go into those two historical ditches when we have a rainy season. Councilwoman Rhodes stated it is going to be in the development agreement that they can not your property anymore than your property is already impacted. Ms. Levine stated she wanted to make sure she has support to make sure it is in there. David Chess, 209 Oak Branch Drive, stated one of the things they need to take a look at is the green space and where the children are going to play. Paul Perry, 4672 Treetop Lane, Shady Oaks, stated it seems here lately they have been getting 25-year storms every year and their water is coming up quickly. He questioned what a 25-year storm looks like and how much water does that hold. Dave Tavlor, 4641 Shady Oak Lane, stated the ditches Ms. Levine is talking about he has followed all the way along and there are some low spots they talked about filling so you will have over runnage on people's property. He spoke about the trees that fell over from the hurricanes and the ditches not being cleaned or maintained in five years. It goes down across u.S. #1 and through that whole area it is overgrown. When it goes underneath u.S. #1 it has a fall and the ditch is only so deep so it retains water back and keeps the headwater back for mosquitos and they don't overflood the echo system for the water going into the lagoon. Page -29- Council Regular Meeting November 7, 2005 .... ....", Mr. Taylor further stated after it goes past U.S. #1, the ditch gets smaller and has it going to private properties. As it turns and goes behind the restaurant, it disappears into nowhere. It has never been maintained and now you are talking about putting all the houses in there. If it does over run they are going to flood the people on the other side of U.S. #1 besides them being flooded too because the ditch will not hold all of this water. He feels it needs to be looked at by Mosquito Control and have it all checked and redone from one end to the other before they even start this project. They have contacted the County and they have come and refilled some of their holes. They really aren't supposed to but they did that because they have people that have emergency access that have to get out to go to the hospital but couldn't get out because they were under water. He spoke about the houses at ground level that are flooding because of fill dirt that has been brought in. The property by the railroad tracks should be a wetlands area and they are filling it in and nobody is stopping them. He has brought it up and nothing has happened. Councilwoman Rhodes questioned who is bringing the dirt in. Mr. Taylor wasn't sure who the contractor was that is building a house back there. The property is in the County. The County has already given them a building permit to build. Councilwoman Rhodes stated they are going to bind them legally they will have to pay to have it fixed or fix it themselves. They are going to put it in the contract in English to know that if their land is impacted by what they do as far as water goes they will be taken care of. Councilwoman Lichter informed Mr. Taylor they have a problem right now that is not related at this second to the City of Edgewater and they have to take care of it with the County. Those mosquito canals were a mistake made by the Army Engineers way back. That is a historical problem. Mr. Taylor stated if you didn't have those ditches you would be having wetlands all over because the water wouldn't be going anywhere. Mike Thomas, 1721 Royal Palm Drive, stated it looks like to him that the lakes are going to be used as borrow pits which is going to be used for fill to build there. If he remembers correctly, there are two natural drains that run through there plus mosquito control. What concerns him is the lakes aren't even pretty and they are squared and that tells him they are going to use that fill to build as much as they can there. Page -30- Council Regular Meeting November 7, 2005 ~ ~ , Mr. Thomas stated all of that water eventually is supposed to go to Turnbull Hammock and into the Indian River. He expressed concern with the developers trying to put as many houses on a piece of property as they can instead of using the natural configuration of the land. He is sure there is some buildable property on there. What they have done is construed this to put as many houses on this piece of property as they can. He recommended Council if they can't visit the site, to take an ariel photograph to see how much is wetlands and where the wetlands are running. He feels they are trying to distort this too much. Jane Hatch2ev, 4569 Lake James Circle, commented on the light green area at the bottom being right behind her property. They have told her that is going to be a recreation area. There are two immense oak trees there. When she asked them the size of this, they told her approximately 100 feet. Her lot is 225 feet wide. This is right in the middle of the back of her yard. They have conceded that they will drop back from the edge of the ditch on their side and leave an area and build a burm and put a fence on it as a barrier. They have also conceded that on her side of the ditch that they will come in and, because the water runs out of the ditch and onto her property and several other lots, raise the ditch level where it is overflowing on their side and put in eighteen inches or two feet of fill to contain the water in the ditch. They have said they will grass this area and on the other side they will landscape the burm and keep the fence and the homeowners association will keep that site. These are the things she would like to see put in whatever agreement they corne to with them. These are the things they have been told at the meetings with them. She doesn't know if they have included this when they submitted this to the City but she would like to see this in writing. Mayor Schmidt stated he believed they would all be in there. Councilman Vincenzi asked if they are in there right now. City Manager Hooper stated he didn't think so. That is part of what they are negotiating right now. Mayor Schmidt closed the public hearing. Attorney Storch stated he appreciated the comments. Initially, as far as Councilwoman Rhodes comments regarding the fact that this should be a requirement in here that there is no additional water out of this site. Absolutely, he has no problem with that. Page -31- Council Regular Meeting November 7, 2005 '-" ...", ., Attorney Storch stated as City Manager Hooper has indicated they will work together on creating that language that everyone can understand. Regarding the fact that the engineers have designed these things to make sure they don't have that issue, they do have liability and they understand that. They want to make sure this is done properly. Councilwoman Rhodes stated they know that but the people that live next to them don't know. Attorney Storch stated regarding the stormwater systems and how they operate and how they are required to be maintained by the homeowners association, one of the things that is now required is that the St. John's River Water Management District must review your covenants and restrictions to make sure that they are satisfactory to them as well and they have those options. The maintenance issues although it will not be affected by them because they will not be putting anymore water into those ditches. In fact they will be putting less. The fact is the maintenance issues have been addressed by the County. He has talked to the Public Works Department and they have something called a spider that goes through and starts clearing out these ditches to get some of the debris out. They only have one spider in existence and are buying another one. They are working to help with that as well and to try and resolve some of those issues. They are trying to put some park areas in there as well so the children have sowe recreational areas. That is also included in the development agreement. The requirement regarding the burm area and the landscape buffer area next to Shady Oaks, they will be glad to place some of the convenants into the agreement. That was something they worked out with the adjoining property owners. They will put this into the agreement as well. As far as Mr. Thomas' comments, those are not very good representations as to what the lakes will look like. The lakes also will look like lakes. They will be rounded and will be landscaped around. Mike Evans, 1682 Hibiscus, Melbourne, stated one other commitment he did make to the neighbors that is not in here yet because this was written prior to their meetings, is that they will also do single-story homes only on the south side of the property. The burm which will either be landscaped and/or fenced, that will be presented at preliminary plat whatever design they come up with they will have a burm there. Councilman scheduled. Councilman Council, a Vincenzi asked when the second reading is tentatively City Manager Hooper stated it's not right now. Vincenzi asked when they anticipate it will be before month from now? Page -32- Council Regular Meeting November 7, 2005 'w" ....., City Manager Hooper stated from DCA. It's at least a December, maybe January. they are going to wait until they hear month out. They should see it late Counci2woman Lichter moved to approve Ord. 2005-0-49, G2enn Storch, aqent for Worthington Creek Investment, Inc. requestinq an amendment to the Officia2 Zoninq Map to inc2ude 155.64+ acres of 2and 20cated west of US1 and northwest of Wi22iam Street as RPUD (Residentia2 P2anned Unit Deve20pmentJ and approva2 of associated RPUD Agreement, second bV Counci2man Brown. The MOTION CARRIED 5 - 0 . Councilman Vincenzi stated he was going to vote yes for it this time with the understanding if these unresolved issues are not resolved by the second reading, he won't vote for it on the second reading. Councilwoman Rhodes dittoed that. D. pt Reading, Ord. No. 2005-0-50, Glenn Storch, agent for John and Patricia Hickey, requesting an amendment to the Official Zoning Map to include 29.20~ acres of land located west of USl and north of Clinton Cemetery Road as RPUD (Residential Planned Unit Development) and approval of associated RPUD Agreement Paralegal Matusick read Ord. 2005-0-50 into the record. City Manager Hooper made a staff presentation. Councilwoman Rhodes asked how they came up with the name Julington Oaks. Mr. Evans stated that is a good question and one of their hardest jobs is naming subdivisions and streets. They have a list of subdivision names throughout the country and they were about at that area and picked Julington Oaks. It has no correlation to anything. Councilwoman Rhodes asked Mr. Evans where they got the list. Mr. Evans informed her they got it off the Internet. Mayor Schmidt opened the public hearing. The following citizen spoke: Page -33- Council Regular Meeting November 7, 2005 '-' ...., Dot Car~son, 1714 Edgewater Drive, stated she has driven past this area and down it. She can understand where they got the word oaks. There are a lot of huge oaks on that property and they are gorgeous. She asked Mr. Evans what they are going to do with the trees. Mr. Evans stated they are keeping most of them. Most of the oak are located on the ditches that go through there. Those will all be untouched. There are several areas, like next to the retention ponds. A lot of places you see the green areas are where the oaks are. They are maintaining those areas. Ms. Carlson stated you can not go too close to live oaks with the water. Mayor Schmidt closed the public hearing. Counci~woman Rhodes moved to approve Ord. 2005-0-50, G~enn Storch, aqent for John and Patricia Hickev, requestinq an amendment to the Officia~ Zoninq Map to inc~ude 29.20+ acres of ~and ~ocated west of USI and north of C~inton Cemetery Road as RPUD (Residentia~ P~anned Unit Deve~opment) and approva~ of associated RPUD Aqreement second by Counci~woman Lichter. The MOTION CARRIED 5-0. There was a ten-minute recess at this time. at 10:00 and reconvened at 10:10 p.m. The meeting recessed E. pt Reading, Ord. No. 2005-0-51, Trajan Joe Sfera requesting an amendment to the Official Zoning Map to include 12.01~ acres of land west of US1 and south of Relocation Road and 4100 S. US1 as B-3 (Highway Commercial) Paralegal Matusick read Ord. 2005-0-51 into the record. City Manager Hooper made a staff presentation. There was a brief discussion regarding plans on this property in the future. Due to there being no comments, Mayor Schmidt opened and closed the public hearing. Page -34- Council Regular Meeting November 7, 2005 ~ ...." Councilwoman Lichter moved to approve Ord. 2005-0-51, Trajan Joe Srera reauestinq an amendment to the Orricial Zoning Map to include 12.01+ acres or land west or US1 and south or Relocation Road and 4100 S. US1 as B-3 (Highway Commercial), second bv Councilman Brown. The MOTION CARRIED 5-0. F. 1 st Reading, Ord. No. 2005-0-52, River Colony, Inc. requesting an amendment to the Official Zoning Map to include 4.22~ acres of land located north of Jones Fish Camp Road and west of the Indian River as RPUD (Residential Planned Unit Development) and approval of the associated RPUD Agreement Paralegal Matusick read Ord. 2005-0-53 into the record. City Manager Hooper made a staff presentation. Councilwoman Rhodes asked the height of the townhouses. Development Services Director Darren Lear informed her fifty feet. Councilwoman Rhodes liked the concept and the idea of the traditional neighborhood design. She wasn't sure how she felt about three stories but being the density was low she could live with the three stories. Councilwoman Lichter asked if they need special permits being on the river. City Manager Hooper informed her their special permits would be no different than lots along Riverside Drive. Councilwoman Lichter asked if each individual home could have a boat lift. City Manager Hooper informed her yes. They will be able to do that at a later date if they choose to and go through the permitting process. Councilman Brown asked about the City having a certain amount of slips and having to give it to them. City Manager Hooper stated it doesn't fall within that. Barney Dillard, owner, explained they do have in the PUD to have one dock in the common area. They won't have docks for the individual homes. Due to there being no comments, Mayor Schmidt opened and closed the public hearing. Page -35- Council Regular Meeting November 7, 2005 '-" ...., CounciLman Brown moved to approve Ord. 2005-0-52, River Co~ony, Inc. reauestinq an amendment to the Oxxicia~ Zoninq Map to inc~ude 4.22+ acres ox ~and ~ocated north ox Jones Fish Camp Road and west ox the Indian River as RPUD (Residentia~ P~anned Unit Deve~opment) and approva~ ox the associated RPUD Aqreement, second bv Counci~woman Lichter. The MOTION CARRIED 5-0. G. Res. No. 200S-R-14, authorizing execution of an Emergency Relief Program Agreement with FOOT for $140,000 reimbursement for costs of debris removal generated by Eurricanes Charley, Francis and Jeanne Paralegal Matusick read Res. 200S-R-14 into the record. City Manager Hooper made a staff presentation. Due to there being no comments, Mayor Schmidt opened and closed the public hearing. Counci~woman Lichter moved to approve Res. 2005-R-14, authorizinq execution ox an Emerqencv Re~iex Program Aqreement with FOOT xor $140,000 reimbursement for costs ox debris remova~ qenerated bv Hurricanes Char~ey, Francis and Jeanne, second bv Counci~woman Rhodes. The MOTION CARRIED 5-0. H. Res. No. 200S-R-1S, renewing a Non-exclusive Cable System Franchise Agreement with Bright House Networks, LLC Paralegal Matusick read Res. 200S-R-1S into the record. City Manager Hooper made a staff presentation. Due to there being no comments, Mayor Schmidt opened and closed the public hearing. Counci~woman Rhodes moved to approve Res. 2005-R-15, renewina a Non-exc~usive Cab~e Svstem Franchise Aqreement with Briqht House Networks, LLC, second bv Counci~woman Lichter. The MOTION CARRIED 5-0. Page -36- Council Regular Meeting November 7, 2005 ~ ..... ..", ~ 7. BOARD APPOINTMENTS A. Firefiqhters' Pension Fund Board - affirming Firefighter's election of Jim Jollie and Ron Hayward to serve another 2-year term Counci2woman Rhodes moved to reappoint Jim Jo22ie and Ron Havward to the Firefiqhters' Pension Board for another 2-vear term, second bv Counci2man Brown. The MOTION CARRIED 5 - 0 . Councilwoman Rhodes asked why they have to approve something that the Board voted on. City Manager Hooper stated they vote to recommend to Council appointments. Only Council can appoint people on these boards. B. Animal Control Board - nomination by Councilwoman Lichter to fill a seat vacated by the expired term of Dr. David Vanis, who seeks reappointment Councilwoman Lichter stated she read all of the applications. Frances Jones has moved to Costa Rica and suggested her application be removed in the future. Counci2woman Lichter moved to reappoint Dr. David Vanis to the Anima2 Contro2 Board, second bv Counci2woman Rhodes. The MOTION CARRIED 5 - 0 . C. Recreation/Cultural Services Board - nominations by Councilman Vincenzi and Councilwomen Rhodes and Lichter to fill seats vacated by the expired terms of Kat Bearsley, Tom Tipton and Mike Visconti; all seeking reappointment Counci2man Vincenzi nominated Mike Visconti. Counci2woman Rhodes nominated Thomas Tipton. Counci2woman Lichter nominated Kat Bears2ev. Counci2man Brown seconded the nominations. The MOTION CARRIED 5-0. Page -37- Council Regular Meeting November 7, 2005 '-' ....., .. 8. CONSENT AGENDA A. Equipment Purchase - staff recommending authorization to piggyback with Lake County bid for the purchase of a 2,500-gallon water tanker fire apparatus with a grant award of $180,000 from the Department of Homeland Security and City's 10% grant match in the amount of $20,000 (approved budget item) B. Equipment Purchase - staff recommending authorization to piggyback with Orange County bid for the purchase of a John Deere Utility Mower with a separate set of cutting units from Coastal Equipment Systems, Inc. for a cost of $29,837.60 (approved budget item) Council woman Rhodes moved to accept the Cons en t Aqenda, second bv Councilwoman Lichter. The MOTION CARRIED 5-0. 9. OTHER BUSINESS A. Professional Engineering Services - staff recommending approval of Work Order #2005-04 to B & H Consultants, Inc. for an amount not to exceed $44,234 for Airpark Road Realignment Bidding and Construction Phase Services City Manager Hooper made a staff presentation. Councilwoman Rhodes moved to approve Work Order #2005-04 to B & H Consultants, Inc. for an amount not to exceed $44,234 for Airpark Road Realianment Biddinq and Construction Phase Services, second bv Councilwoman Lichter. The MOTION CARRIED 5-0. B. Professional Engineering Services - staff recommending approval of Work Order #2005-01 to Quentin L. Hampton Associates, Inc. for engineering services related to the Southeast Service and Reclaimed Water Ground Storage/Pump Station Project for an estimated cost of $228,145 City Manager Hooper made a staff presentation. Page -38- Council Regular Meeting November 7, 2005 , .., """'" ~ 11 Councilwoman Lichter moved to approve Work Order #2005-01 to Quentin L. Hampton Associates, Inc. for enaineerina services related to the Southeast Service and Reclaimed Water Ground Storage/Pump Station Proiect for an estimated cost of $228,145, second bv Councilwoman Rhodes. The MOTION CARRIED 5-0. C. Request for Funding 1) SCORE requesting $1,500 to continue their program of counseling entrepreneurs and small businesses This item was discussed earlier on the agenda. 2) Thomas Meeks requesting a donation to help fund a trip to Europe sponsored by "The People to People Student Ambassador Program" This item was discussed earlier on the agenda. 3) Project Graduation New Smyrna Beach High School Class of 2006 requesting a donation to help fund a graduation night celebration This item was discussed earlier on the agenda. 10. OFFICER REPORTS A. City Clerk Wadsworth had nothing at this time. B. Paralegal Matusick had nothing at this time. C. City Manager Hooper had nothing at this time. 11. CITIZEN COMMENTS/CORRESPONDENCE There were no Citizen Comments/Correspondence at this time. A. Tentative Agenda Items There were no Tentative Agenda Items to be discussed at this time. Page -39- Council Regular Meeting November 7, 2005 , ,-' , '-" ..." of 12. ADJOURNMENT There being no further business to discuss, Councilwoman Rhodes moved to adjourn. The meeting adjourned at 10:28 p.m. Minutes submitted by: Lisa Bloomer Page -40- Council Regular Meeting November 7, 2005