11-07-2005 - Regular
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CITY COUNCIL OF EDGEWATER
REGULAR MEETING
NOVEMBER 7, 2005
7:00 P.M.
COMMUNITY CENTER
MINUTES
1 . CALL TO ORDER
Mayor Schmidt called the Regular Meeting to order at 7:00 p.m. in
the Community Center.
ROLL CALL
Mayor Donald Schmidt
Councilman James Brown
Councilman Dennis Vincenzi
Councilwoman Harriet Rhodes
Councilwoman Judith Lichter
City Manager Kenneth Hooper
City Clerk Susan Wadsworth
Paralegal Robin Matusick
Present
Present
Present
Present
Present
Present
Present
Present
INVOCATION, PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE
There was a silent invocation and pledge of allegiance to the
Flag.
2. APPROVAL OF MINUTES
A. Special MeetiGg of October 12, 2005
Councilwoman Lichter moved to approve the October 12, 2005
minutes, second bv Councilman Brown.
The MOTION CARRIED 5-0.
3. PRESENTATIONS/PROCLAMATIONS/PLAQUES/CERTIFICATES/DONATIONS
A. Mayor Schmidt to proclaim November as "Family Month" to
encourage residents to spend quality time with family
members
Mayor Schmidt read a proclamation recognizing November as "Family
Month".
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Mayor Schmidt introduced Eric Hill, who in turn introduced his
wife, Susan Hill, who read a quote from Barbara Bush, that was
once said to graduates of Wesley College.
Eric Hill, commented on 60 Minutes last night and Tom Brady,
quarterback for the New England Patriots, who has won three
Superbowls and was most valuable player in two of those
Superbowls and he was asked at the end of the program, if there
is anything he would rather do than win another Superbowl and he
said he would rather play golf in Scotland with his mother and
father than win another Superbowl. That was more enjoyable to
him than winning the Superbowl. He thinks we all feel that way
about our families. He challenged the Council to calendar some
time during the week to have a family home evening.
B. Chief Ignasiak to present a plaque to Officer Martha
Miles for "Officer of the Quarter"
Chief Ignasiak presented reasons why Officer Martha Miles was
nominated as "Officer of the Quarter." He then presented her
with a plaque.
Officer Miles thanked Chief Ignasiak and commented on the pride
she felt being able to return a car to an elderly couple that had
been scammed.
Chief Ignasiak stated Officer Tim Ball runs a series of
educational informational programs for many of the crime watch
groups and citizens organizations. Many of the crimes,
particularly involving the elderly go unreported. He encouraged
anyone who becomes aware of these things to report it so it can
be investigated so our elderly citizens do not get victimized.
C. Presentation by Janet Shira, B & H Consultants, Inc.,
for the Kennedy Park conceptual site plan
City Manager Hooper made a brief staff presentation. He stated
after Council agrees whichever format they will go in, the City
will be seeking funding from Port Authority, the County and
anyone we can obtain funding from.
Jim Shira, B & H Consultants, Inc., made a presentation regarding
the conceptual site plan they came up with for Kennedy Park.
What they are asking for tonight is for Council to tell them they
do or do not approve this as a conceptual plan. If they do then
the City can start moving ahead with trying to find funding in
order to actually build the project.
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Councilwoman Lichter asked if the tennis courts will no longer be
there in this plan and if there are tennis courts anticipated
somewhere else. Leisure Services Director Jack Corder stated at
this time they have the four at Whistle Stop which they are going
to be resurfacing. They could look at incorporating one at one
of the other parks such as Rotary Park. They are incorporating
racquetball courts at Rotary Park. That is going to be more of
an activity based park out there.
Councilwoman Lichter asked if there is still recognition for
George Kennedy whom the park was named after. Mr. Shira informed
her there would be. Right now there is a big rock with a plaque
on it. They didn't show that specifically but that can be moved
and incorporated into the new design.
Councilwoman Lichter then asked about the wishing well, which is
a very historic item in this City. Mr. Shira stated that will
stay. That is near where they have shown the pavilion.
Councilwoman Rhodes asked how big the pavilion is and how many
picnic tables will fit under it. Mr. Shira informed her thirty
feet in diameter and you could get between four and six picnic
tables depending on the size of the picnic tables.
Councilwoman Rhodes then asked about there only be three boat
ramps. She asked if the boat ramps should be increased to
accommodate future growth. City Manager Hooper stated they
looked at it. It is probably limited by the number of parking
places they can put there. The number of parking spaces aren't
going to warrant more than three ramps. He further spoke of it
being an issue to try and permit an additional ramp there.
Councilwoman
boat ramps.
the ramps.
Lichter commented on some of the developments having
City Manager Hooper stated more so the slips than
Councilwoman Rhodes feels there should be an additional boat
ramp. She then asked what the boat house with the dock is for.
Mr. Shira informed her that is for the police boat. City Manager
Hooper stated that is a grant that was obtained from the Port
Authority and it would house the police boat or any other
function the City wants.
Mayor Schmidt asked if there are any concerns with the area to be
dredged. City Manager Hooper stated it is a maintenance
permitting issue. The concern is not highly. It is just a
routine process to get that type of dredge permit.
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Councilman Vincenzi feels it looks like a good plan.
thought of possibly some other use for that area but
can't. Boat slips are very limited in this town and
lot of boaters.
He always
you really
there are a
Councilman Vincenzi asked if the area by the road with the
pavilion will be landscaped. Mr. Shira commented on what they
have in mind. Councilman Vincenzi asked if there will be a
barrier or divider from the road. Mr. Shira informed him they
don't have anything shown but they could add something.
Councilman Vincenzi expressed concern with children playing
there. He feels it looks like a pretty good plan.
Councilman Brown commented on the functions that go on at Kennedy
Park. He feels they might need more covered areas in case of bad
weather. He would also like to see a cookout area incorporated
in this somewhere. He would also like to see a small playground
for children to play at while their parents are getting their
boats out of the water. They don't want to take it completely
away from the people who want to cookout and look at the river
and go fishing. Mr. Shira stated there are a couple areas on the
plan where they might be able to do that. They could either make
the pavilion area larger or put a cookout area or play area in
the corner. Councilman Brown feels that would be an ideal place
to do it.
Councilwoman Rhodes commented on people wanting to hold weddings
at the gazebo. She feels they need to keep that in mind when
they are landscaping around it.
Councilwoman Lichter asked in terms of the other parks, is there
potential in the future for another ramp. City Manager Hooper
stated not very much. Menard Park has water aCcess. They tried
to separate the two. Menard Park is for cookouts and more
children and family activities. Here you have an awful lot of
vehicular traffic and people in and out.
Councilwoman Lichter asked about no access at Veterans Park. City
Manager Hooper commented on Veterans Park being very narrow. It
is mostly fishing. Some people use the benches. He commented on
the gazebo to the north being used for weddings quite a bit.
Councilwoman Lichter feels it will be a nice boating park.
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Councilwoman Rhodes stated years ago when she went out on the
boat with her father they used to launch at Kennedy Park and at
that time there was a need for more ramps. She can't believe
there is not a need now. City Manager Hooper agreed to look at
this. There are eight or nine parking spaces per ramp. He also
agreed to talk to the Port Authority.
City Manager Hooper stated with the rest of it what he thinks he
hears Council saying is consensus wise they are okay with it.
They will have an authorization to go to design. Many of the
grants they will be applying for want you to have permits in hand
and some final engineering in hand. They are looking at major
matches. As soon as the plans are done, they can apply for some
of these grants.
Councilwoman Rhodes stated she would be a little leery on making
it too kid friendly.
City Manager Hooper stated they would bring back to Council the
authorization to do the final design.
It was the consensus of Council to move forward.
4. CITIZEN COMMENTS
The following citizens spoke:
David Chess, 209 Oak Branch Drive, stated he is interested to
know if there will be a fish cleaning station at Kennedy Park.
Mr. Shira stated they don't have a fish cleaning station
explicitly shown but that could be in the area where the
information kiosk is or it could be just to the west of the
ramps. They certainly could put something like that in there.
Councilwoman Rhodes asked who would take care of that. City
Manager Hooper stated you see those frequently at public
facilities. It's not as bad as you would think.
Mike Visconti, 316 Pine Breeze Drive, stated back on August 16,
1996 he went out and raised enough money to put a fountain on SR
442 at a cost of $5,000. Since they have widened SR 442 it was
taken down and put aside and nothing is being done with it. He
has kept his mouth shut for the past three years about where they
could put this fountain. He never got any satisfaction from
anybody. He feels the fountain could be incorporated somewhere
at Kennedy Park and commented on it not being mentioned.
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Mr. Visconti further stated they dedicated this fountain to
Dominick Fazzone and at that time Mayor Hayman was Mayor and he
helped a great deal doing what they did with it. Since then it
has been at the City garage probably deteriorating. He would
like to see someone put their foot down and say let's do it or
don't do it. He would like to know what is going to happen to it
because he put a lot of blood and sweat in it and he would like
to see it done before he passes away.
Councilwoman Rhodes stated let's do it.
in there somewhere.
She thinks it would fit
City Manager Hooper stated they talked of putting it at Menard
Park and some other places. It was pretty damaged when it came
out of there so he isn't sure they have any remaining use of it.
Leisure Services Director Jack Corder stated this has been talked
about at the Leisure Services Board on several occasions. The
Board recommended over two years ago to put it in at Hawks Park
when they did the arboretum area there. That is where they are
planning on putting it. They just received funding to proceed
with that area. Within the next year, that area will be
developed.
Tracv Card, 3035 Orange Tree Drive, asked if everyone saw her
October 3rd letter that she mailed. She asked which insurance
company insures the City and the various members of the Board and
the Department Heads of the City for property insurance.
Mayor Schmidt asked why. Ms. Card stated she thought it was
public information. She stated it might be a conflict because
they are having problems with an insurance company and they are
having a problem with the City doing what they think it should be
doing based on their insurance company. Ms. Card was informed
PGIT.
Ms. Card proceeded to read a prepared statement and presented a
brief synopsis of the events as they related to the damages to
her home from the hurricanes last year.
Mayor Schmidt asked for a staff report at this time. City
Manager Hooper then made a presentation on behalf of staff.
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Councilwoman Rhodes stated apparently the crux of this whole
situation is that nobody has decided if this house falls under
the 50/50 rule or not. She questioned Ms. Card stating that she
had an appraiser come out and asked why the appraiser didn't
assess the value of her house. Ms. Card stated the way she
understands the Florida Building Code Mr. Fischer is the one to
make that decision. Councilwoman Rhodes informed her she was
wrong. She has had her house appraised. The appraiser told her
what her house was worth. Why didn't your appraiser tell you
what your house was worth? Then you could decide which part of
the 50/50 rule it fell under and then you could make a building
permit. It seems to be it is relatively simple. Ms. Card stated
she finally got an answer from City Manager Hooper on October
13th that attached a memorandum from Dennis Fischer. In it he
mentions this formulary for how they determine replacement costs
of a building. It doesn't go by her appraisal or their taxable
value, which is one of the things she has been trying to find out
for a year. He says they use an amount from the ICC. Currently
that amount is ninety-one seventy four. If he had that available
to make this memorandum last month, why didn't he have it last
year when she asked. Why didn't he have it when she brought him
her contractors' estimates in January?
Councilwoman Rhodes stated it is not the City's job to evaluate
her house. Ms. Card stated one of the things he references is a
report form the Florida Building Commission. He didn't attach
that but she took the liberty of pulling it down from the
Internet and it says the person who is going to make this
decision is the Building Official.
Councilwoman Rhodes asked City Manager Hooper if that is so.
City Manager Hooper stated what occurs when you submit your
permit application is the building official reviews it and
determines the value it takes to repair. Until he has a permit
application, he is guessing. Councilwoman Rhodes stated but the
value is only of the repair. The value is not of the house
itself. City Manager Hooper stated until there is a permit
application on what you intend to do on the house, you don't have
anything.
Councilwoman Rhodes asked Ms. Card if her contract has put a
value on how much it will cost to repair her house. Ms. Card
informed her for the building $92,133. Councilwoman Rhodes
informed her she needed to submit that in a permit and then they
will be able to tell her if it is over 50% of the value of her
house.
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Ms. Card stated she was told she had to submit two sets of signed
and sealed plans. Which plans? Plans to repair it or plans to
bring it up to code. How many sets of plans does she have to pay
for? It is not up to her contractor to decide if the Florida
Building Code applies. Councilwoman Rhodes informed her she
decides. Ms. Card stated no I don't.
Mayor Schmidt stated they aren't going to accomplish anything
here tonight. It still sounds like it comes down to the
application to get the permits before any other decisions can be
made from the City's side. City Manager Hooper informed him that
is correct.
Mayor Schmidt asked if they can get with her to let her know
exactly how many and what sets of plans she needs so she can
submit those so they can get at least to that point. City
Manager Hooper stated the issue is going to come down to repairs
the owner wants to make. They need to submit a set of plans for
those repairs. We can not tell them which set of plans it will
take to restore the house. They choose the repairs they want and
submit the plans. In this case, there is substantial damage.
The allegation is it is probably more than 50%. Until you decide
how you want to repair the house and submit an application there
isn't a role for the City to determine that value.
Mayor Schmidt stated so the plans they need to submit are what
they want to do to the house. City Manager Hooper stated two
sets. Ms. Card stated on September 14th the Building Department
told her once the re-roof was completed and passed inspection,
the interior storm damage permit could be issued. No building
plans will be required for this permit. If no building plans are
required for an interior damage permit but she has to submit
signed and sealed plans before she is told if they just have to
fix it or if they have to bring it to code, how much does she
have to spend in engineering and architectural fees for plans
before she can get a simple answer. If this is their
contractor's estimate and this is the cost to repair their
damages, do they fall under the 50% rule or not. The last she
knew the Building Inspector was paid out of their tax money and
he is available for information for questions like this. She
doesn't understand why he couldn't give her the dollar amount for
the replacement cost when he contractor gave her the estimate.
City Manager Hooper further explained you have to submit a permit
application that says the repairs you want to do before the City
can take any action or reaction to it.
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Councilwoman Rhodes commented on this being a liability issue to
the City. It is not the City's place to tell Ms. Card if she
should repair or demolish. Ms. Card stated she is asking Mr.
Fischer to interpret the Code and how it applies based on her
contractor's estimate for the cost of repairs. This is an
estimate for repairs, not tear down and not bringing it to Code.
This is just to fix the damage.
Mayor Schmidt suggested Ms. Card, Mr. Fischer and Fire Chief
Barlow get together and clarify for her exactly what she needs to
turn in to satisfy what the City needs to do to go to the next
step.
Councilwoman Rhodes asked for them to hold off on Code citing her
for her trailer. She asked if they can have a deadline of thirty
days to accomplish this so she isn't violated with the trailer.
City Manager Hooper informed her yes.
Councilwoman Lichter stated Ms. Card has called her numerous
times and they have communicated on this problem. She thinks
some of the allegations should be checked out. She feels Ms.
Card is an intelligent knowledgeable person. If she says Mr.
Fischer has said something like move out of the City, that to her
hurts. She would like City Manager Hooper to talk with him about
some of these things regarding how she thinks she has been
treated. She feels this is important.
Councilwoman Lichter stated in terms of the legality of this.
Ms. Card told her she was going to hire and you know and have
been in communication with the best lawyer there is to handle
this kind of thing. She assumed this was not in the process any
longer. Ms. Card stated she hired a good lawyer to go after her
insurance company. She was told she could not speak to City
employees and had to go through their attorneys. She is not
suing the City, she is suing her insurance company.
Councilwoman Lichter stated she doesn't want Ms. Card to feel she
has been treated with disrespect or ill advised by the City. She
thinks this needs to be looked into. She also suggested City
Manager Hooper be present at the meeting that will be set up.
She feels it is a serious thing of having them move out of their
FEMA trailer and having it taken away when they can't live in
their house before a determination is made and they need a
postponement on that.
Mayor Schmidt asked that they proceed with that and asked that
the Council be kept updated.
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Jeanne DelNiqro, 3130 Tamarind Drive, stated when the Council
hired the Chief of Police a statement was made that he had an
open door policy and no one would be refused to go into his
office to sit down to talk to him. This is not happening. She
had a problem and she called and she was refused to be talked to
so she called City Manager Hooper. City Manager Hooper told her
the Chief can pick and choose who he wants to talk to. She pays
his salary like everyone of the taxpayers in here. If she has a
problem or anyone else they have a right to go in and see him and
talk to him.
Mayor Schmidt stated he doesn't know enough of the circumstances.
Chief Ignasiak stated he does have an open door policy however
the law puts limits on the discussion of certain investigations,
crimes and criminal acts on what can be discussed. Some
information is considered confidential and some information is
considered currently under investigation. When you deal with
adults and you deal specifically with their cases you aren't
required to share that information with their parents. As a
matter of fact, in some cases you are forbidden to share that
information with the parents. If the child who is an adult
decides they want to share that information with a parent they
may very well do that. Particularly when they are anticipating
the possibility of going to court where an officer is going to
testify on elements of a crime or offenses itself, it is not
proper for him to discuss that case before it goes before a judge
nor release any information that either the officers are going to
use in prosecution or the subject themself may not be made
public. Under those provisions, there are times when he refuses
to talk to people because legally he can't and will not do that.
Councilwoman Lichter asked if that was the situation in this
case. Chief Ignasiak informed her yes.
Ms. DelNigro informed him he was wrong. She called him to let
him know there were drugs being sold and where they were being
sold. She didn't call him about anything else and she was
refused to come in to talk to him. Every taxpayer pays their
salary. If you have an open door policy, you open that door and
let people in. If it is a problem you can't discuss, when the
person gets there then you say to that person I'm sorry we can't
discuss that but listen to the person as to what they have to
come in and tell you. What he just said, she knows what she was
going in to talk to him about. Plus, he turned away two other
residents.
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Ms. DelNigro stated she wished they would have come tonight
because they are upset about him with his open door policy.
Either he is going to have an open door or he is going to have an
open door for certain people. Which is it going to be?
Mayor Schmidt stated he thinks Chief Ignasiak stated how the open
door policy is. Ms. DelNigro stated if you don't have that door
open and hear the person out as to what they are going to talk
about, where is the open door policy.
Councilwoman Rhodes sta~ed he does have the right to not talk to
anybody he wants to but he should talk to you. He should find
out what you want. He is here for our safety. There are some
things he doesn't need to be bothered with. Ms. DelNigro stated
drug deals aren't public safety. Councilwoman Rhodes stated
absolutely they are. She asked Ms. DelNigro if she told him
that. Ms. DelNigro stated she didn't get a chance. She was told
she couldn't speak to him.
Mayor Schmidt asked if it was told to whoever she spoke to. Ms.
DelNigro stated they wouldn't give her a chance. She called City
Manager Hooper. She informed him she wanted to talk to Chief
Ignasiak. It has nothing to do with a certain item. City
Manager Hooper informed her he has a right not to talk to her.
Mayor Schmidt asked if she ever stated to City Manager Hooper
that it had to do with drug deals. Ms. DelNigro stated no, they
would not give me the opportunity to tell him.
Councilwoman Rhodes stated you didn't tell him you wanted to talk
to the Chief about a drug deal in my neighborhood. Ms. DelNigro
stated she told JoAnn, his secretary. She informed her she had
to contact City Manager Hooper. She stated she did call City
Manager Hooper. City Manager Hooper stated she called him and
asked to talk about the five tickets her son got. Ms. DelNigro
stated she wasn't talking about the tickets. This was a while
ago. She informed City Manager Hooper she doesn't just make up
stories. Councilwoman Rhodes asked Ms. DelNigro to document it
if it happens in the future and contact someone on the Council
and they will keep up with it. Ms. DelNigro asked if Chief
Ignasiak is going to have an open door policy and if it will be
open to every citizen of Edgewater. Councilwoman Rhodes and
Mayor Schmidt informed her yes.
Ms. DelNigro stated her son did receive five tickets from the
cops last week. She didn't call him last week and she didn't
talk to City Manager Hooper last week.
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City Manager Hooper stated she talked to him about that. Ms.
DelNigro stated she told him they were bls tickets. Mayor
Schmidt stated there is an open door policy. It just needs to be
stated up front. There are so many legalities nowadays. Ms.
DelNigro doesn't think it is right that they are told they can't
go in and talk to him because he doesn't want to talk to you when
he doesn't even know what you want to talk to him about. Mayor
Schmidt stated that is more of a reason to be up front and inform
him what it is about. Ms. DelNigro stated she couldn't get the
opportunity to tell him. Councilwoman Lichter stated but you
told the secretary. Ms. DelNigro stated she told her to get a
hold of City Manager Hooper.
Councilwoman Rhodes stated you should be able to call his
secretary and make an appointment to see him. If you have vital
criminal news, she would call 911. Ms. DelNigro stated the news
she had you couldn't call 911. Councilwoman Rhodes stated then
she should have told his secretary. Ms. DelNigro stated she
wasn't going to get into that part. She wanted Chief Ignasiak to
tell her he had an open door policy and if you have a problem you
call me. She doesn't want to hear he doesn't have to talk to her
because of an incident that happened that it didn't have anything
to do with. Mayor Schmidt stated they all heard him say he does
have an open door policy. Councilwoman Rhodes asked Ms. DelNigro
if she has yet to tell him about the drug dealer. Ms. DelNigro
stated she hasn't had a chance to talk to him. Councilwoman
Rhodes suggested she do that. Ms. DelNigro stated she would.
Rav Anderson, 1906 S. Riverside Drive, asked if there were any
violations on the No Name Saloon during Bike Week. He was
informed there was one. He asked City Clerk Wadsworth for a copy
of the report and the hourly report as well.
Mr. Anderson stated the noise levels are still there from time to
time. They get loud most of the time it's okay. Some changes
were made this year. He met with the Dollar Store people this
week and they are starting construction this week. The next two
months it will be under construction. By Bike Week, that
building should be completed, which will solve some of the
problems. His interpretation of the Special Event permitting
with outside entertainment goes way back along with that is the
P.A. system. They are integrated and he doesn't believe they
should be separated. We had that off the docket and it was
requested by the owners of the No Name Saloon to have the P.A.
system put back in operation.
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Mr. Anderson stated the problem is after 9:00 p.m. there is no
Code enforcement people monitoring P.A. systems. To make a call
at midnight to 911 because of the noise isn't going to work. He
suggested if they are going to have P.A. systems you have to have
a Code Enforcement person on duty on station because by the time
you make the call it is over with. He asked Council to reinstate
that ruling that the P.A. system now not be separated from the
permitting and be one in the same and be subject to the same
curfew hours.
Mr. Anderson asked for the Council to consider putting Special
Events on the next ballot and put it up to a vote. They are the
elected representatives and the Council doesn't really know how
the people are thinking. He would like to see it put on the
ballot or make some effort whether they want special eventing
permitted or not. A lot of people won't say a word against it
under any circumstances. They live with it or leave town. He
would like to see it voted on. If everyone votes it back in or
that they really want special permitting and to turn the City
into an event driven City and the center of Edgewater happens to
be the No Name Saloon, let them vote it in and he will then shut
up.
Fav Levine, 4588 Lake James Circle, stated this Council and the
next one coming in have a lot of decisions in the future. She
wanted to comment on the 1st readings of Items C, D & F. There
is a lot of development coming on U.S. #1 south of Roberts Road.
She asked what they are planning for the future and questioned
where the schools are being built and where the support services
are for all of these people. She lives directly south of the
proposed Worthington Creek. Drainage problems in Shady Oaks are
bad. She mentioned this being a County problem but feels the
Council must be aware of density, schools, U.S. #1 traffic and
support services for all of the populations they are allowing in.
Nothing is being built except Coral Trace which she understands
is having problems already. She questioned where the schools are
for those children. She comes from a planned City. She moved in
there in 1971 with less than 14,000 people. Ten percent of the
County was made into a City which is now 125,000 people. She
lived there for twenty-six years and everything was planned and
orderly. Hard decisions had to be made by the governing County
Council. She informed the Council they are going to have to make
hard decisions on the development of Edgewater. She came to this
area because it was rural in aspect and because of its family
emphasis.
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Ms. Levine encouraged Council to look towards the future in
regards to drainage problems, traffic and services. They went to
the Planning Board with their problems. They have listened to
the developer. His site plan of Worthington Creek is doing one-
story homes on the edge of the ditch. He is going to put a
buffer. They are anxiously awaiting the final site plan. She
again encouraged the Council to look towards the future of
Edgewater and towards the future of future citizens. She isn't
totally against this subdivision and would like to see lower
density. They seem to have their act together and they know what
they are doing. She is looking at the overall picture for the
Council for the City because she is right at the border. Maybe
someday they will annex her subdivision. She doesn't know if she
wants to be annexed or not. She again asked the Council to look
and be responsible citizens for Edgewater.
John Cordeiro, Pine Tree Drive, stated well I guess everyone has
gotten their new tax bills by now. The high tax just doesn't
line up with the campaign propaganda you have been hearing from
the three people that want to get re-elected. His taxes are up
to $2,100 plus $300 for flood insurance because this Council has
let builders build in flood zones all because of the almighty
dollar.
Mayor Schmidt asked him how much his City taxes went up. Mr.
Cordeiro again stated his taxes are $2,100 plus $300 for flood
insurance. Mayor Schmidt again asked him how much his City taxes
went up. Mr. Cordeiro stated that is twice as much as he was
paying for a bigger house in Pembroke Pines. How can I afford to
live here on $1,400 per month social security? Councilwoman
Lichter stated that is based on the property value of your home.
Mr. Cordeiro stated he hears all this propaganda stuff.
Councilwoman Lichter stated it is knowledge and they all pay
taxes too.
Mr. Cordeiro stated he left Pembroke Pines three years ago where
he had a bigger house and a pool. His taxes were $1,200. Now it
is costing him $2,400. He can not afford this with his monthly
social security. He corrmented on all the houses for sale in
Edgewater. He feels the City is forcing residents to leave
because they can not afford to live here anymore. Going door to
door campaigning he heard this over and over from different
people talking about it so it isn't only him. He asked the
Council if they are all proud of themselves~ Four more years and
Edgewater will be completely destroyed. It won't stop if you
people get re-elected. He feels it is time for a big change.
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Council Regular Meeting
November 7, 2005
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Domdnic Capria, 606 Topside Circle, stated when the budget was
made did they consider the dollars that they were to bring in
because of new developments. The City of Edgewater got more
money than any city in the County to the amount of $72,200, which
he is assuming went into the reserves. Was any of this
considered when they did the budget. We knew we were going to
get extra dollars. If they consider that they could have
possibly reduced the millage rate. Was the $72,200 considered?
Mayor Schmidt stated they didn't consider it because they didn't
know about it. That came about after October 1st after all the
decisions had been made. We weren't the only city. We just
happened to be the one that the numbers coming from the Tax
Appraiser's office were the farthest off. They consider looking
to the future on the numbers that arrive from growth. They can't
consider those in the budget if they aren't hard numbers sitting
in front of them. They can't assume they are going to get
something they don't have in front of them. The Tax Appraiser's
office made an error, which allotted to about $72,000.
Mr. Capria stated he was told by City Manager Hooper that once
this is passed you can't change it but according to the article
in the newspaper you can change it even after October 1st.
City Manager Hooper explained July 1st the Property Appraiser
tells them what their tax revenue or income is going to be. The
Council sets the millage that is put out. You get a preliminary
tax notice and then about the 1st of September comes a final to
them. The final says you adopt that tax roll and here is how
much money you are going to get. This Council adopted that.
Twenty-four hours notice the Property Appraiser said there were a
few changes and there is a $72,000 difference. That was his
solely his choice to say after October 1st you can't go back and
you can't lower it and it went into the reserves.
Mr. Capria stated something is definitely wrong with the system.
If that extra money is going to be there, something should be
done to be able to help the citizens of Edgewater. City Manager
Hooper stated it went into reserves to help the citizens of
Edgewater. Mr. Capri a stated you have to know that there is
going to be some kind of tax dollars.
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Council Regular Meeting
November 7, 2005
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Pat Card, 3019 Willow Oak Drive, stated we have an election
tomorrow. He thanked the people who have worked hard for the
length of time they have been on the Council. Whether you are on
the Council tomorrow or not doesn't change that. It took a great
deal of determination on their part to be willing to put up with
the kind of crap they put up with here. Some of it coming from
him. Goodness knows he hasn't always agreed with the Council but
he has always respected everyone of them. He thanked the Council
for all the work they have done.
Michael Armento, 2519 Vista Palm Drive, commented on storm drains
being plugged up and the water starting to back up. He asked if
the residents are supposed to clean them out or does the City
clean those out. Mayor Schmidt asked Mr. Armento to get with
Director of Environmental Services Director Terry Wadsworth.
Mr. Armento doesn't want to see the problem get any worse. He
agreed to help them clean them out. If they don't pitch in and
take care of the problem this could be a potential problem later
on.
Councilwoman Rhodes told him in the future if this happens he can
contact the Public Works Department.
There was a ten-minute recess at this time.
at 8:20 and reconvened at 8:30 p.m.
The meeting recessed
5. CITY COUNCIL REPORTS
Councilwoman Lichter commented on Smart Growth. The Committee
was formed by the County and they had Mayors on it, the Chamber
of Commerce, Builders, the League of Women Voters, the County
people, the School Board, Environmental Counsel was on it. It
was a stew of many elements of Volusia County. The Workshops
they held brought to light the areas that they know are important
in terms of growth. You can not stop people from utilizing their
land in a proper manner. You can not put a gate around Florida.
She gets phone calls in her district from people that moved in
three months ago and they don't want anyone else to move in.
They came up with a document that is somewhat of a compromise but
very much emphasizes green spaces, open spaces and has a toolbox
that gives certain thoughts to clustering. It also had other
interesting tools like combining open spaces between two cities.
There was a workshop where representatives of Port Orange, New
Smyrna, and Edgewater attended.
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Council Regular Meeting
November 7, 2005
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Councilwoman Lichter feels this is a very vital thing. She
clarified they all care about wetlands and this being a domain of
St. John's also. There are five or six permitting processes that
everything they do has to go through. She doesn't feel the
workshop was sufficient for this City. She asked City Manager
Hooper to plan another workshop and try to encourage all of the
Planning and Zoning Board members as well as the Council to come
and open it up to the public also. She would also like to hear
from Clay Henderson because of his interest in conservation.
Mayor Schmidt encouraged everyone to get out and vote tomorrow.
During the Primary only 11.3% out of 15,000 people voted. He has
had fun over the past six years and he would like to see another
four. He has enjoyed wholeheartedly representing this City on
whatever Board he happened to be on.
Councilman Brown congratulated all the people that are running.
It has been a very clean election. Nobody has been tearing
anybody's signs down too much. Nobody has been slinging any mud.
He feels they have progressed along way from a few years back the
way elections used to be run in this City. He encouraged
everyone to get out and vote and he hoped they would vote for
him.
Councilman Vincenzi stated they don't have to vote for him
tomorrow because he has two more years before he has to fight.
He encouraged the people to vote. This is the citizens shot to
say if they like what is going on or not.
Councilwoman Rhodes stated she truly enjoyed serving on the
Council as well until tonight. She appreciated all the good work
that everybody has done. They can't do anything if they don't
know the problem and if the citizens don't fight with them. She
has appreciated the sense of community we have in Edgewater while
she has been on the Council. She also encouraged the people to
get out and vote.
6. PUBLIC HEARINGS, ORDINANCES AND RESOLUTIONS
A. Public Hearing, Nancy Hansen of Edgewater United
Methodist Church, 211 N. Ridgewood Avenue, requesting a
Special Activity permit for "Christmas Under the Palms"
to be held December 10, 2005, from 9:00 a.m. to 4:00
p.m.
City Manager Hooper made a staff presentation.
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Council Regular Meeting
November 7, 2005
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Due to there being no comments, Mayor Schmidt opened and closed
the public hearing.
Nancy Hansen, Edgewater United Methodist Church, promised not to
have any outside bands.
Counci~woman Lichter moved to approve the Specia~ Activitv Permit
:for "Christmas Under the Pa~" to be he~d December 10, 2005,
:from 9:00 a.m. to 4:00 p.m. at the Edqewater United Methodist
Church, second bv Counci~woman Rhodes.
The MOTION CARRIED 5-0.
Mayor Schmidt stated with Council's pleasure he would like to
move up Items 9C1, C2 and C3.
Councilwoman Rhodes suggested on the agenda from now on that
funding requests comes right after Proclamations and Plaques so
these people don't have to sit through two hours before their
requests can be heard.
C. Request for Funding
1) SCORE requesting $1,500 to continue their program
of counseling entrepreneurs and small businesses
City Manager Hooper made a staff presentation.
Counci~woman Rhodes moved to approve SCORE's request xor xundinq
in the amount ox $1,500 to continue their program ox counse~ing
entrepreneurs and sma~~ businesses, second bv Counci~n
Vincenzi.
The MOTION CARRIED 5-0.
2) Thomas Meeks requesting a donation to help fund a
trip to Europe sponsored by "The People to People
Student Ambassador Program"
Thomas Meeks commented on "The People to People Student
Ambassador Program".
Mayor Schmidt asked Mr. Meeks how is fund raising was going. Mr.
Meeks reported he had close to $1,000.
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Council Regular Meeting
November 7, 2005
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Councilwoman Lichter asked Mr. Meeks if he was at Drug Free Youth
and if he was in the band. Mr. Meeks informed her he was.
Mayor Schmidt asked Mr. Meeks to present a report to Council when
he gets back from his trip. He agreed to show Council a slide
show when he returns.
Councilwoman Rhodes asked Mr. Meeks how old he was. Mr. Meeks
informed her he is twelve years old but would be turning thirteen
on November 16th.
Councilman Vincenzi asked Mr. Meeks how much his trip will cost.
Mr. Meeks informed him $6,000. Councilman Vincenzi then asked
him how much he has raised. Mr. Meeks informed him $1,400.
Counci~woman Lichter moved to approve the amount of $600.00 to
he~p fund a trip to Europe sponsored bv "The Peop~e to Peop~e
Student Ambassador Proqram" for Thomas Meeks, second bv
Counci~woman Rhodes.
The MOTION CARRIED 5-0.
3 )
Project Graduation New Smyrna Beach High School
Class of 2006 requesting a donation to help fund a
graduaticn night celebration
Larry Butt,
Graduation,
1603 S. Riverside Drive, representing Project
elaborated en what Project Graduation is.
Councilwoman Lichter asked if they had gone on a cruise last
year. Mr. Butt informed her the cruise got a little stuffy and
the boat only holds 150 people. At Daytona Lagoon they can hold
the whole graduating class if they wanted to come.
Councilman Vincenzi asked Mr. Butt what other funding they have
received so far. Mr. Butt informed him they are looking at about
a total cost of $15,000. They have raised about $3,500.
Councilman Vincenzi asked if New Smyrna has given them anything
yet. Mr. Butt informed him they haven't been there yet but they
are coming up soon. Councilman Vincenzi asked him how much they
are planning on asking them for. Mr. Butt informed him
everything he can get his hands on.
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Council Regular Meeting
November 7, 2005
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Counci~woman Rhodes moved to approve the amount of $600 for
Proiect Graduation New Smyrna Beach High Schoo~ C~ass of 2006 to
help fund a qraduation niqht celebration, second bv Councilwoman
Lichter.
The MOTION CARRIED 5-0.
B. 2nd Reading, Ord. No. 2005-0-38, Ernestina Kayat
requesting an amendment to the Official Zoning Map to
include 37.26~ acres of land located west of 4100 S.
US1 and west of Relocation Road as 1-1 (Light
Industrial) , Reading 6/20/05, Item 6J
Paralegal Matusick read Ord. 2005-0-38 into the record.
City Manager Hooper made a staff presentation.
Councilwoman Rhodes stated there are no plans for this at this
time. City Manager Hooper informed her that was correct.
Mayor Schmidt opened the public hearing.
Ken Donahey, Attorney for Ernestina Kayat, stated this came in as
Light Industrial and they would like to keep it that way and
there are no plans for it at this time.
Counci~woman Rhodes moved to approve Ord. 2005-0-38, Ernestina
Kavat requesting an amendment to the Officia~ Zoninq Map to
inc~ude 37.26+ acres of land ~ocated west of 4100 S. US1 and west
of Relocation Road as I-l (Liqht Industria~), second bv
Counci~woman Lichter.
The MOTION CARRIED 5-0.
c. pt Reading, Ord. No. 2005-0-49, Glenn Storch, agent
for Worthington Creek Investment, Inc. requesting an
amendment to the Official Zoning Map to include 155.64~
acres of land located west of US1 and northwest of
William Street as RPUD (Residential Planned Unit
Development) and approval of associated RPUD Agreement
Paralegal Matusick read Ord. 2005-0-49 into the record.
City Manager Hooper made a staff presentation.
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Council Regular Meeting
November 7, 2005
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Councilwoman Rhodes asked if this is low density, three houses
per acre. City Manager Hooper informed her that is correct.
Councilwoman Rhodes the~ questioned Florida shores being five
houses per acre. City Manager Hooper informed her Florida Shores
averages about four houses per acre.
Councilman Brown questioned them projecting to have 25% open
space left. City Manager Hooper stated that is the requirement.
Councilman Brown asked about the animal shelter being a voluntary
impact and a voluntary stormwater impact. City Manager Hooper
stated a basin assessment fee. Councilman Brown stated they
don't have to pay that. City Manager Hooper informed him that is
correct. Councilman Brown stated hopefully they will. City
Manager Hooper stated the agreement says they will.
Councilman Vincenzi stated the total acreage is what. City
Manager Hooper informed him 155 acres. Councilman Vincenzi
stated and the density is three per acre. He feels that is
pretty good. Councilman Vincenzi asked how much of that area is
not really useable as it stands right now. City Manager Hooper
stated there is very little floodplain and a few wetlands on this
site. They have had so~e preliminary analysis of that. To
accommodate drainage it has retention ponds. He further
commented on how the drainage works. Overall this site is not
heavily intense in floodplain and has some scattered wetlands.
Councilwoman Rhodes stated what if it is not a 25-year storm
event but an afternoon thunderstorm. City Manager Hooper stated
it doesn't leave the site.
Councilman Vincenzi stated how much is buildable as it is. City
Manager Hooper stated all of it is buildable but you still have
to retain. It will take up about 25% of the property to handle
it's drainage and right-of-way.
Councilman Vincenzi stated so the green space everybody is
talking about is. City Manager Hooper stated open space.
Councilman Vincenzi stated is that the retention ponds and
questioned where it is. Councilman Vincenzi stated he thinks it
is a decent plan. He thinks smart growth has a lot of good
aspects to it. He also thinks it has a lot of misleading aspects
to it. He then questioned there being 436 units. City Manager
Hooper informed him that is correct.
Councilman Vincenzi then questioned 25% being open space. Glenn
Storch stated 25% is required to be open space.
Page -21-
Council Regular Meeting
November 7, 2005
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Glenn Storch, law firm of Storch, Morris and Harris, representing
the applicant, introduced himself.
Councilman Vicnenzi asked where the open space is. Attorney
Storch stated the open space is the total lake areas, the total
retention areas and the green areas they are preserving.
Councilman Vincenzi asked what the green areas are. Attorney
Storch stated they are probably wetland areas they are preserving
as well as some other areas. There is not that much unuseable
property on the site. There are only about 11 acres of wetlands
on the site altogether. To a large extent this is a site that
works out very well. They have worked very closely with staff on
this. The nice thing is this a PUD so you have a development
agreement where you incorporate all the agreements and
understanding between staff and the land owner in the development
agreement and those become absolute required and mandated.
Councilman Vincenzi asked Attorney Storch to explain to him the
concept of clustering and why houses are clustered. Attorney
Storch stated as a general rule when they are dealing with more
intense clustering and more intense smart growth concepts you are
taking a rural area and clustering and putting the residential
area in a single area and then preserving large areas of green
space, usually somewhere in the vicinity of 50%. This is not a
typical smart growth cl~stering concept. This is more an urban
growth area.
Councilman Vincenzi stated typical clustering concept ideally
would involve clustering houses to preserve about 50% open green
space. Attorney Storch stated if you are in a rural area.
Councilman Vincenzi stated this is getting to not be rural.
Attorney Storch stated this has urban services, water and sewer.
A majority of the open space in this case is the lakes and
retention areas.
Councilman Vincenzi stated a lot of people think you are
preserving green space. You aren't really preserving green
space. You are digging retention ponds, preserving wetlands and
doing a bunch of different stuff but a lot of it is things you
have to do anyway and what you are doing is clustering buildings
in order to raise the density but when you take the density
overall over the whole l~roperty it still ends up being low
density.
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Council Regular Meeting
November 7, 2005
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Attorney Storch stated in this case their overall density, which
is gross density, which is how you apply it, you take the entire
site and you put the number of units on the site and then
determine the density. Their density in this case is less than
three. It is 2.8 units per acre based on 436. If you take out
the retention areas and the open space areas, you are still
looking at only 4.11 units per acre. This is not really intense
clustering in this case. What they are doing is providing a well
designed subdivision with quite a bit of floodwater protection
and retention area protection which is the right way to do it.
This is what they should be doing. One of the concerns that was
raised regarding this particular project was to some of the
neighbors to the south in Shady Oaks, who were concerned because
they are having flooding problems at this point. They wanted to
avoid having any impact on them and their flooding problems. If
anything they want to de something that would help alleviate some
of those flooding problems. He feels they have probably over
designed for flooding on this site. As a result, during a 25
year storm event, everything would be held on site immediately.
Once you get beyond that, you still have most of the water that
will be held on site that will go into the roads and the road
systems as opposed to geing offsite. That is what they have
tried to design around. One of the advantages of a PUD, is you
can look at your site and look at your neighbors, and find ways
of resolving issues between you and your neighbors and also
create a subdivision that will maintain its value. They have put
landscaping buffers and potential burms adjacent to the
neighborhood. They have met with the neighbors repeatedly as a
means of trying to deal with their issues that presently exist
that have nothing to do with them but still trying to deal with
their issues. He has met personally with the Public Works
Director for Volusia County to see if there is some way of
dealing with their issue. These are things they can do because
they want to be a good neighbor. As far as maintaining value and
increasing value for the City, some of the things they have done
is created covenants and restrictions on this site. This is a
gated, private road subdivision. There will be a homeowners
association that will require the subdivision to be maintained in
a proper manner. All the stormwater systems, lakes and roads
will have to be maintained by the homeowners association.
Councilman Vincenzi stated that is standard nowadays. It never
used to be twenty-years ago. Attorney Storch stated it's
important because if it is done right it will help the City
maintain its value and the residents maintain the value of their
investment.
Page -23-
Council Regular Meeting
November 7, 2005
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Attorney Storch stated ~hey have also voluntarily agreed to
contributions to the animal shelter at $100 per unit, which will
total over $43,000. They have also agreed to provide a $100 per
unit contribution toward a floodwater study, which is another
$43,000. He further commented on Mike Evans and Forte Macaulay
being responsible land owners and developers and he likes working
with them because they try to solve problems. With a PUD and a
development agreement that you work out between the City and the
land owner, that is how you solve those problems.
Councilman Vincenzi again stated he felt they did a great job.
He feels the additional money for the animal shelter and
floodwater study is wonderful. He feels it is heading in the
right direction. He will probably vote for it, even though he
doesn't like the small lots. He expressed concern about other
issues such as schools. He asked if any initiative has been
taken to address the problems of future crowding and roadways.
This is how development kills a City if you don't plan for these
things coming up.
City Manager Hooper stated they have been in contact with the
School Board. They don't have a site but they have identified
that they are looking between Oak Hill, Edgewater and New Smyrna
to locate additional elementary and middle school sites. They
have a middle school site on SR 442 and Airpark that is to be
developed in four to five years. They have additional school
capacity in the immediate vicinity. The School Board has okayed
this and said this is acceptable with the commitment that
Edgewater, Oak Hill and New Smyrna work to find other sites.
These folks will be paying impact fees for schools and roads.
They are paying their fair share.
Councilman Vincenzi stated this is what he has been trying to get
through to City Manager Hooper for a year or two is that these
developers come in and in addition to building houses and
increasing population trey have to add something more for the
City and he feels this is a good start. Attorney Storch agreed
with that win-win concept. They are also contributing to the
median improvements and median landscaping at the entrance to
this feature. During the Planning Board meeting they discussed
looking at the City's transportation network in that area,
perhaps extending Airpark. He suggested they bring this before
the MPO so that as the building continues in this area they
encourage that construction.
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Council Regular Meeting
November 7, 2005
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City Manager Hooper further commented on their paying for capital
improvements. He spoke of the medians the City has done the
improvements to. The cheap part is putting in the improvements.
The expensive part is maintaining them. These folks are putting
in those improvements and the homeowners association is
maintaining the medians immediately north and south of the
intersection.
Mayor Schmidt opened the public hearing.
The following citizens spoke:
Pat Card, 3019 Willow Oak Drive, stated Attorney Storch came to
him this evening and one of the concerns that he has always had
has been the north south relief to U.S. #1. He pressed these
people pretty hard at Planning and Zoning. They have started
talking to people at the County now about this. He told him this
this evening. He appreciated that and he wanted Council to know
it because that was the primary reason that he was pressing hard
not to approve this was because he hadn't seen any movement from
anybody on the north south alternative to U.S. #1. We are seeing
some movement. They have to utilize their developers to bring
the pressure to bare and through the MPO the Council can work and
start this. These people are very influential in the County and
he pressed them and did not vote in favor of this because they
had not shown him any movement from the first time they talked
about this. They have shown him some movement and he recommended
Council vote in favor of this.
Mike Visconti, 316 Pine Breeze Drive, stated he lives on a
retention pond in Meadow Lake. The mistake that was made there
is there is no entranceway to the common area from anywhere in
Meadow Lake but on 28th Street and Roberts Road. He recommended
if they are going to have retention ponds instead of building all
those houses close make sure there is a right-of-way going to
those retention ponds in the common area.
Dot Car~son, 1714 Edgewater Drive, representing ECARD, stated she
is seeing a lot of blue space which is retention. She isn't
seeing a lot of wildlife corridor unless it is flying in or
swimming in. She asked if any of this water is moving or will it
be stagnant. City Manager Hooper stated most of it flows. These
are retention ponds that have outfalls to those canals. Those
canals run north and south. It takes the water south to a canal
south of Ariel Road. Each of these retain water. They equalize
among themselves and then they pop off into those two canals.
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Council Regular Meeting
November 7, 2005
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Frank ~berson, 4602 Lake James Circle, Shady Oaks, presented
City Clerk Wadsworth with two photos to reflect on the screen for
everyone to see. One of the photos was his backyard under normal
conditions and one of the photos was what it looked like after
the rains in October 2001, which will show they do have a
flooding problem. If they can contain their water, great. They
can not afford to have any more water. The ditches where they
are going to drain down to were put there as mosquito ditches and
they do not take care of the water they have now. They don't
drain now like they should. He would like this to be considered
when the Council votes on this. He asked for some protection for
the people that have lived there for a long time that have houses
that were not built up four foot above the road when they were
built. They just can't take more water.
Councilwoman Rhodes stated she understands that by whatever they
do they can't make it worse for anybody around them. Everybody
that builds in this City can not make the drainage worse for the
people around them. If they do, they will have to fix it. She
asked if it would be helpful to put it in the agreement so these
people can be at ease that they have recourse should it make
their flooding worse. City Manager Hooper stated in essence it
is in the agreement. He stated the problem is this was developed
prior to a lot of rules. This is a closed basin. The water in
this whole subdivision goes to one spot. It fills up and there
is no outfall. It is net connected to the mosquito control
ditches. If it were, that would eliminate some of the problems.
He talked to a gentleman that had an idea about some of that. He
thinks they can talk further with the County and they can talk
with staff. There are a few solutions that are pretty simple to
do. It may take some easements. Just to have this as a positive
outfall will help to eliminate some of their problems. What they
are doing has no impact on this whatsoever.
Councilwoman Rhodes stated these people are sitting here and have
been told by government officials that something was going to
happen and it didn't happen. Or it gets down the road and nobody
has responsibility. She thinks something in the contract that
lets the homeowners around them know that if they do make it
worse they have to fix it. City Manager Hooper stated they can
put simple pre-post conditions will remain the same.
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Council Regular Meeting
November 7, 2005
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Mr. Alberson stated they have had several acres in there that
were wetlands where water accumulated. People came in and bought
it and built it and the County has made them build their houses
way up. He understands they are supposed to have something like
a moat around so the water doesn't run from their houses to the
road and into other people's property. He spoke of people
bringing in fill dirt that was not supposed to be brought in and
nothing ever being done about it.
Councilwoman Lichter stated when the developer leaves things are
turned over the homeowners association. They are talking about
something that obliges the builder to have responsibility forever
when really they are talking about the homeowners keeping up with
whatever it is they have to clean and whatever work they have to
do. That has to be looked into a little bit more. Very often,
after fifteen years in a homeowners group, the first people
forget to pass the papers onto the next people and there is
trouble with them even understanding when they move from
someplace else what a wetland is. That really has to be
thoroughly investigated of whose responsibility it is.
Councilwoman Rhodes stated the homeowner's association is
responsible for all of those things after the developer leaves so
it needs to be in the homeowner covenants. City Manager Hooper
stated it is. Councilwoman Lichter stated not in the developer's
worry forever. Councilwoman Rhodes stated she thinks it should
be in there for them too because they have a responsibility up
until the homeowners association takes over. Councilwoman
Lichter stated it is. Councilwoman Rhodes stated she knows but
it should be in English.
Jack Hayman, County Councilman, stated the Volusia County Council
has been very concerned about flooding throughout the County.
This has not been a good year for rain and stormwater management.
Last year wasn't a very good year either. The one benefit from
all of this has been a heightened awareness and understanding of
the fact that they do have a very big stormwater management
problem in this county. They are fortunate in that their cities
have been working very collaboratively with their staff and they
are working day and night to get together to create multiple
stormwater basins throughout the County. It is not something
they can develop over night. There has been some benign neglect
to the existing mosquito control and stormwater management
systems they have throughout the County. The history of some of
them is dubious at best but they end up by default getting it
because they have to move the water.
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Council Regular Meeting
November 7, 2005
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County Councilman Hayman stated one of the problems they deal
with is moving the water and not being able to put it in the
river anymore. They are constrained because of the problems with
the impurities and solids that are not good for the water quality
in the pristine river. He commented on people in this area that
have contacted him about their concerns regarding what the water
is going to do on this property. He plans on working with the
City Planning Department and the City Manager with their planning
and growth management department, particularly their engineers
with stormwater management and they are going to get together and
look at this project and all the other projects in Southeast
Volusia to make sure they have an understanding of what they have
to do on their side of it when it comes to them. It is a
collaborative effort. It is something they have to do together.
With regard to this project, it looks like they are planning for
it. They will be asking the engineers to take the additional
step to show them. He commented on homeowners associations being
interesting things. He commented on the homeowners association
in the Spruce Creek Fly In. Each subdivision in Volusia County
has a slightly different covenant and restriction. The important
thing is if when they finish that it passes muster of the City.
The City Engineers accept it and then they have the strings
attached and Edgewater has a superb City Manager to do just that
because that is his business and he brings great expertise to the
table. Before the City accepts the roads, the stormwater and all
the other things there, there will be an exhaustive study to it.
The County will be working with them. Volusia County will be
involved in helping the City to help them manage their part of
the water. The Volusia County Council has made a commitment that
they have got to get a hold of this water. The engineers are
going to be held accountable for their work. If they have a site
plan and they have a lot of them in Volusia County and the
engineer said it would work and it didn't, they are going to
start holding those people accountable. The agreements they have
who is to say they can't be held accountable for five to fifteen
years or some performance standard that is measurable in terms of
inches of rain or incidents of rain. They realize they haven't
done as good a job as perhaps they should have but they are here
to work with the City. He knows they are going to do this and he
knows it is going to work.
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Council Regular Meeting
November 7, 2005
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Fav Levine, 4588 Lake James Circle, pointed out the historical
ditches and stated her house is right south of that. They tell
her the retention ponds are going to have these massive concrete
things and little bit ex-amount of water will go in when the
retention ponds go up the water is going to go in there and then
it gets pumped out of the lakes and pumped into the drainage
ditches. Along the south boundary of their property is the north
boundary of Shady Oaks. It is a mosquito control ditch that
hasn't been cleaned out in five years. They say it won't come
out but they are worried because it can overflow that. She
worries about how much water is going to be put into those
ditches that are going to come down and when it starts is the
east-west ditch going to handle it all. She isn't recommending
they defeat this tonight but she would like the Council to know
exactly what is going on with the site plan because they are
worried. She has a little island that is in the lake that the
surveyor says she owns. She hasn't seen it since June 1st. It
is under water. She questioned how much water will go into those
two historical ditches when we have a rainy season.
Councilwoman Rhodes stated it is going to be in the development
agreement that they can not your property anymore than your
property is already impacted. Ms. Levine stated she wanted to
make sure she has support to make sure it is in there.
David Chess, 209 Oak Branch Drive, stated one of the things they
need to take a look at is the green space and where the children
are going to play.
Paul Perry, 4672 Treetop Lane, Shady Oaks, stated it seems here
lately they have been getting 25-year storms every year and their
water is coming up quickly. He questioned what a 25-year storm
looks like and how much water does that hold.
Dave Tavlor, 4641 Shady Oak Lane, stated the ditches Ms. Levine
is talking about he has followed all the way along and there are
some low spots they talked about filling so you will have over
runnage on people's property. He spoke about the trees that fell
over from the hurricanes and the ditches not being cleaned or
maintained in five years. It goes down across u.S. #1 and
through that whole area it is overgrown. When it goes underneath
u.S. #1 it has a fall and the ditch is only so deep so it retains
water back and keeps the headwater back for mosquitos and they
don't overflood the echo system for the water going into the
lagoon.
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Council Regular Meeting
November 7, 2005
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Mr. Taylor further stated after it goes past U.S. #1, the ditch
gets smaller and has it going to private properties. As it turns
and goes behind the restaurant, it disappears into nowhere. It
has never been maintained and now you are talking about putting
all the houses in there. If it does over run they are going to
flood the people on the other side of U.S. #1 besides them being
flooded too because the ditch will not hold all of this water.
He feels it needs to be looked at by Mosquito Control and have it
all checked and redone from one end to the other before they even
start this project. They have contacted the County and they have
come and refilled some of their holes. They really aren't
supposed to but they did that because they have people that have
emergency access that have to get out to go to the hospital but
couldn't get out because they were under water. He spoke about
the houses at ground level that are flooding because of fill dirt
that has been brought in. The property by the railroad tracks
should be a wetlands area and they are filling it in and nobody
is stopping them. He has brought it up and nothing has happened.
Councilwoman Rhodes questioned who is bringing the dirt in. Mr.
Taylor wasn't sure who the contractor was that is building a
house back there. The property is in the County. The County has
already given them a building permit to build.
Councilwoman Rhodes stated they are going to bind them legally
they will have to pay to have it fixed or fix it themselves.
They are going to put it in the contract in English to know that
if their land is impacted by what they do as far as water goes
they will be taken care of.
Councilwoman Lichter informed Mr. Taylor they have a problem
right now that is not related at this second to the City of
Edgewater and they have to take care of it with the County.
Those mosquito canals were a mistake made by the Army Engineers
way back. That is a historical problem. Mr. Taylor stated if
you didn't have those ditches you would be having wetlands all
over because the water wouldn't be going anywhere.
Mike Thomas, 1721 Royal Palm Drive, stated it looks like to him
that the lakes are going to be used as borrow pits which is going
to be used for fill to build there. If he remembers correctly,
there are two natural drains that run through there plus mosquito
control. What concerns him is the lakes aren't even pretty and
they are squared and that tells him they are going to use that
fill to build as much as they can there.
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Council Regular Meeting
November 7, 2005
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Mr. Thomas stated all of that water eventually is supposed to go
to Turnbull Hammock and into the Indian River. He expressed
concern with the developers trying to put as many houses on a
piece of property as they can instead of using the natural
configuration of the land. He is sure there is some buildable
property on there. What they have done is construed this to put
as many houses on this piece of property as they can. He
recommended Council if they can't visit the site, to take an
ariel photograph to see how much is wetlands and where the
wetlands are running. He feels they are trying to distort this
too much.
Jane Hatch2ev, 4569 Lake James Circle, commented on the light
green area at the bottom being right behind her property. They
have told her that is going to be a recreation area. There are
two immense oak trees there. When she asked them the size of
this, they told her approximately 100 feet. Her lot is 225 feet
wide. This is right in the middle of the back of her yard. They
have conceded that they will drop back from the edge of the ditch
on their side and leave an area and build a burm and put a fence
on it as a barrier. They have also conceded that on her side of
the ditch that they will come in and, because the water runs out
of the ditch and onto her property and several other lots, raise
the ditch level where it is overflowing on their side and put in
eighteen inches or two feet of fill to contain the water in the
ditch. They have said they will grass this area and on the other
side they will landscape the burm and keep the fence and the
homeowners association will keep that site. These are the things
she would like to see put in whatever agreement they corne to with
them. These are the things they have been told at the meetings
with them. She doesn't know if they have included this when they
submitted this to the City but she would like to see this in
writing.
Mayor Schmidt stated he believed they would all be in there.
Councilman Vincenzi asked if they are in there right now. City
Manager Hooper stated he didn't think so. That is part of what
they are negotiating right now.
Mayor Schmidt closed the public hearing.
Attorney Storch stated he appreciated the comments. Initially,
as far as Councilwoman Rhodes comments regarding the fact that
this should be a requirement in here that there is no additional
water out of this site. Absolutely, he has no problem with that.
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Council Regular Meeting
November 7, 2005
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Attorney Storch stated as City Manager Hooper has indicated they
will work together on creating that language that everyone can
understand. Regarding the fact that the engineers have designed
these things to make sure they don't have that issue, they do
have liability and they understand that. They want to make sure
this is done properly. Councilwoman Rhodes stated they know that
but the people that live next to them don't know. Attorney
Storch stated regarding the stormwater systems and how they
operate and how they are required to be maintained by the
homeowners association, one of the things that is now required is
that the St. John's River Water Management District must review
your covenants and restrictions to make sure that they are
satisfactory to them as well and they have those options. The
maintenance issues although it will not be affected by them
because they will not be putting anymore water into those
ditches. In fact they will be putting less. The fact is the
maintenance issues have been addressed by the County. He has
talked to the Public Works Department and they have something
called a spider that goes through and starts clearing out these
ditches to get some of the debris out. They only have one spider
in existence and are buying another one. They are working to
help with that as well and to try and resolve some of those
issues. They are trying to put some park areas in there as well
so the children have sowe recreational areas. That is also
included in the development agreement. The requirement regarding
the burm area and the landscape buffer area next to Shady Oaks,
they will be glad to place some of the convenants into the
agreement. That was something they worked out with the adjoining
property owners. They will put this into the agreement as well.
As far as Mr. Thomas' comments, those are not very good
representations as to what the lakes will look like. The lakes
also will look like lakes. They will be rounded and will be
landscaped around.
Mike Evans, 1682 Hibiscus, Melbourne, stated one other commitment
he did make to the neighbors that is not in here yet because this
was written prior to their meetings, is that they will also do
single-story homes only on the south side of the property. The
burm which will either be landscaped and/or fenced, that will be
presented at preliminary plat whatever design they come up with
they will have a burm there.
Councilman
scheduled.
Councilman
Council, a
Vincenzi asked when the second reading is tentatively
City Manager Hooper stated it's not right now.
Vincenzi asked when they anticipate it will be before
month from now?
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Council Regular Meeting
November 7, 2005
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City Manager Hooper stated
from DCA. It's at least a
December, maybe January.
they are going to wait until they hear
month out. They should see it late
Counci2woman Lichter moved to approve Ord. 2005-0-49, G2enn
Storch, aqent for Worthington Creek Investment, Inc. requestinq
an amendment to the Officia2 Zoninq Map to inc2ude 155.64+ acres
of 2and 20cated west of US1 and northwest of Wi22iam Street as
RPUD (Residentia2 P2anned Unit Deve20pmentJ and approva2 of
associated RPUD Agreement, second bV Counci2man Brown.
The MOTION CARRIED 5 - 0 .
Councilman Vincenzi stated he was going to vote yes for it this
time with the understanding if these unresolved issues are not
resolved by the second reading, he won't vote for it on the
second reading. Councilwoman Rhodes dittoed that.
D. pt Reading, Ord. No. 2005-0-50, Glenn Storch, agent
for John and Patricia Hickey, requesting an amendment
to the Official Zoning Map to include 29.20~ acres of
land located west of USl and north of Clinton Cemetery
Road as RPUD (Residential Planned Unit Development) and
approval of associated RPUD Agreement
Paralegal Matusick read Ord. 2005-0-50 into the record.
City Manager Hooper made a staff presentation.
Councilwoman Rhodes asked how they came up with the name
Julington Oaks. Mr. Evans stated that is a good question and one
of their hardest jobs is naming subdivisions and streets. They
have a list of subdivision names throughout the country and they
were about at that area and picked Julington Oaks. It has no
correlation to anything. Councilwoman Rhodes asked Mr. Evans
where they got the list. Mr. Evans informed her they got it off
the Internet.
Mayor Schmidt opened the public hearing.
The following citizen spoke:
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Council Regular Meeting
November 7, 2005
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Dot Car~son, 1714 Edgewater Drive, stated she has driven past
this area and down it. She can understand where they got the
word oaks. There are a lot of huge oaks on that property and
they are gorgeous. She asked Mr. Evans what they are going to do
with the trees. Mr. Evans stated they are keeping most of them.
Most of the oak are located on the ditches that go through there.
Those will all be untouched. There are several areas, like next
to the retention ponds. A lot of places you see the green areas
are where the oaks are. They are maintaining those areas. Ms.
Carlson stated you can not go too close to live oaks with the
water.
Mayor Schmidt closed the public hearing.
Counci~woman Rhodes moved to approve Ord. 2005-0-50, G~enn
Storch, aqent for John and Patricia Hickev, requestinq an
amendment to the Officia~ Zoninq Map to inc~ude 29.20+ acres of
~and ~ocated west of USI and north of C~inton Cemetery Road as
RPUD (Residentia~ P~anned Unit Deve~opment) and approva~ of
associated RPUD Aqreement second by Counci~woman Lichter.
The MOTION CARRIED 5-0.
There was a ten-minute recess at this time.
at 10:00 and reconvened at 10:10 p.m.
The meeting recessed
E. pt Reading, Ord. No. 2005-0-51, Trajan Joe Sfera
requesting an amendment to the Official Zoning Map to
include 12.01~ acres of land west of US1 and south of
Relocation Road and 4100 S. US1 as B-3 (Highway
Commercial)
Paralegal Matusick read Ord. 2005-0-51 into the record.
City Manager Hooper made a staff presentation.
There was a brief discussion regarding plans on this property in
the future.
Due to there being no comments, Mayor Schmidt opened and closed
the public hearing.
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Council Regular Meeting
November 7, 2005
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Councilwoman Lichter moved to approve Ord. 2005-0-51, Trajan Joe
Srera reauestinq an amendment to the Orricial Zoning Map to
include 12.01+ acres or land west or US1 and south or Relocation
Road and 4100 S. US1 as B-3 (Highway Commercial), second bv
Councilman Brown.
The MOTION CARRIED 5-0.
F. 1 st Reading, Ord. No. 2005-0-52, River Colony, Inc.
requesting an amendment to the Official Zoning Map to
include 4.22~ acres of land located north of Jones Fish
Camp Road and west of the Indian River as RPUD
(Residential Planned Unit Development) and approval of
the associated RPUD Agreement
Paralegal Matusick read Ord. 2005-0-53 into the record.
City Manager Hooper made a staff presentation.
Councilwoman Rhodes asked the height of the townhouses.
Development Services Director Darren Lear informed her fifty
feet. Councilwoman Rhodes liked the concept and the idea of the
traditional neighborhood design. She wasn't sure how she felt
about three stories but being the density was low she could live
with the three stories.
Councilwoman Lichter asked if they need special permits being on
the river. City Manager Hooper informed her their special
permits would be no different than lots along Riverside Drive.
Councilwoman Lichter asked if each individual home could have a
boat lift. City Manager Hooper informed her yes. They will be
able to do that at a later date if they choose to and go through
the permitting process.
Councilman Brown asked about the City having a certain amount of
slips and having to give it to them. City Manager Hooper stated
it doesn't fall within that.
Barney Dillard, owner, explained they do have in the PUD to have
one dock in the common area. They won't have docks for the
individual homes.
Due to there being no comments, Mayor Schmidt opened and closed
the public hearing.
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Council Regular Meeting
November 7, 2005
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CounciLman Brown moved to approve Ord. 2005-0-52, River Co~ony,
Inc. reauestinq an amendment to the Oxxicia~ Zoninq Map to
inc~ude 4.22+ acres ox ~and ~ocated north ox Jones Fish Camp Road
and west ox the Indian River as RPUD (Residentia~ P~anned Unit
Deve~opment) and approva~ ox the associated RPUD Aqreement,
second bv Counci~woman Lichter.
The MOTION CARRIED 5-0.
G. Res. No. 200S-R-14, authorizing execution of an
Emergency Relief Program Agreement with FOOT for
$140,000 reimbursement for costs of debris removal
generated by Eurricanes Charley, Francis and Jeanne
Paralegal Matusick read Res. 200S-R-14 into the record.
City Manager Hooper made a staff presentation.
Due to there being no comments, Mayor Schmidt opened and closed
the public hearing.
Counci~woman Lichter moved to approve Res. 2005-R-14, authorizinq
execution ox an Emerqencv Re~iex Program Aqreement with FOOT xor
$140,000 reimbursement for costs ox debris remova~ qenerated bv
Hurricanes Char~ey, Francis and Jeanne, second bv Counci~woman
Rhodes.
The MOTION CARRIED 5-0.
H. Res. No. 200S-R-1S, renewing a Non-exclusive Cable
System Franchise Agreement with Bright House Networks,
LLC
Paralegal Matusick read Res. 200S-R-1S into the record.
City Manager Hooper made a staff presentation.
Due to there being no comments, Mayor Schmidt opened and closed
the public hearing.
Counci~woman Rhodes moved to approve Res. 2005-R-15, renewina a
Non-exc~usive Cab~e Svstem Franchise Aqreement with Briqht House
Networks, LLC, second bv Counci~woman Lichter.
The MOTION CARRIED 5-0.
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Council Regular Meeting
November 7, 2005
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7. BOARD APPOINTMENTS
A. Firefiqhters' Pension Fund Board - affirming
Firefighter's election of Jim Jollie and Ron Hayward to
serve another 2-year term
Counci2woman Rhodes moved to reappoint Jim Jo22ie and Ron Havward
to the Firefiqhters' Pension Board for another 2-vear term,
second bv Counci2man Brown.
The MOTION CARRIED 5 - 0 .
Councilwoman Rhodes asked why they have to approve something that
the Board voted on. City Manager Hooper stated they vote to
recommend to Council appointments. Only Council can appoint
people on these boards.
B. Animal Control Board - nomination by Councilwoman
Lichter to fill a seat vacated by the expired term of
Dr. David Vanis, who seeks reappointment
Councilwoman Lichter stated she read all of the applications.
Frances Jones has moved to Costa Rica and suggested her
application be removed in the future.
Counci2woman Lichter moved to reappoint Dr. David Vanis to the
Anima2 Contro2 Board, second bv Counci2woman Rhodes.
The MOTION CARRIED 5 - 0 .
C. Recreation/Cultural Services Board - nominations by
Councilman Vincenzi and Councilwomen Rhodes and Lichter
to fill seats vacated by the expired terms of Kat
Bearsley, Tom Tipton and Mike Visconti; all seeking
reappointment
Counci2man Vincenzi nominated Mike Visconti.
Counci2woman Rhodes nominated Thomas Tipton.
Counci2woman Lichter nominated Kat Bears2ev.
Counci2man Brown seconded the nominations.
The MOTION CARRIED 5-0.
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Council Regular Meeting
November 7, 2005
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8. CONSENT AGENDA
A. Equipment Purchase - staff recommending authorization
to piggyback with Lake County bid for the purchase of a
2,500-gallon water tanker fire apparatus with a grant
award of $180,000 from the Department of Homeland
Security and City's 10% grant match in the amount of
$20,000 (approved budget item)
B. Equipment Purchase - staff recommending authorization
to piggyback with Orange County bid for the purchase of
a John Deere Utility Mower with a separate set of
cutting units from Coastal Equipment Systems, Inc. for
a cost of $29,837.60 (approved budget item)
Council woman Rhodes moved to accept the Cons en t Aqenda, second bv
Councilwoman Lichter.
The MOTION CARRIED 5-0.
9. OTHER BUSINESS
A. Professional Engineering Services - staff recommending
approval of Work Order #2005-04 to B & H Consultants,
Inc. for an amount not to exceed $44,234 for Airpark
Road Realignment Bidding and Construction Phase
Services
City Manager Hooper made a staff presentation.
Councilwoman Rhodes moved to approve Work Order #2005-04 to B & H
Consultants, Inc. for an amount not to exceed $44,234 for Airpark
Road Realianment Biddinq and Construction Phase Services, second
bv Councilwoman Lichter.
The MOTION CARRIED 5-0.
B. Professional Engineering Services - staff recommending
approval of Work Order #2005-01 to Quentin L. Hampton
Associates, Inc. for engineering services related to
the Southeast Service and Reclaimed Water Ground
Storage/Pump Station Project for an estimated cost of
$228,145
City Manager Hooper made a staff presentation.
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Council Regular Meeting
November 7, 2005
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Councilwoman Lichter moved to approve Work Order #2005-01 to
Quentin L. Hampton Associates, Inc. for enaineerina services
related to the Southeast Service and Reclaimed Water Ground
Storage/Pump Station Proiect for an estimated cost of $228,145,
second bv Councilwoman Rhodes.
The MOTION CARRIED 5-0.
C. Request for Funding
1) SCORE requesting $1,500 to continue their program
of counseling entrepreneurs and small businesses
This item was discussed earlier on the agenda.
2) Thomas Meeks requesting a donation to help fund a
trip to Europe sponsored by "The People to People
Student Ambassador Program"
This item was discussed earlier on the agenda.
3) Project Graduation New Smyrna Beach High School
Class of 2006 requesting a donation to help fund a
graduation night celebration
This item was discussed earlier on the agenda.
10. OFFICER REPORTS
A. City Clerk Wadsworth had nothing at this time.
B. Paralegal Matusick had nothing at this time.
C. City Manager Hooper had nothing at this time.
11. CITIZEN COMMENTS/CORRESPONDENCE
There were no Citizen Comments/Correspondence at this time.
A. Tentative Agenda Items
There were no Tentative Agenda Items to be discussed at this
time.
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Council Regular Meeting
November 7, 2005
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12. ADJOURNMENT
There being no further business to discuss, Councilwoman Rhodes
moved to adjourn. The meeting adjourned at 10:28 p.m.
Minutes submitted by:
Lisa Bloomer
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Council Regular Meeting
November 7, 2005