12-19-2005 - Regular
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CITY COUNCIL OF EDGEWATER
REGULAR MEETING
DECEMBER 19, 2005
7:00 P.M.
COMMUNITY CENTER
MINUTES
1 . CALL TO ORDER
Mayor Thomas called the Regular Meeting to order at 7:00
p.m. in the Community Center.
ROLL CALL
Mayor Michael Thomas
Councilwoman Debra Rogers
Councilman Dennis Vincenzi
Councilwoman Harriet Rhodes
Councilwoman Judith Lichter
City Manager Kenneth Hooper
City Clerk Susan Wadsworth
Paralegal Robin Matusick
Present
Present
Present
Present
Present
Present
Present
Present
INVOCATION, PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE
There was a silent invocation and pledge of allegiance to
the Flag.
2. APPROVAL OF MINUTES
A. Regular Meeting of October 10, 2005
Councilwoman Lichter commented on a correction to the
minutes of October 10, 2005. On Page 2 of the minutes, the
paragraph that starts with Councilwoman Lichter presented
an update on WAY. On the second line the way it's written
it kind of implies the interlocal agreement has just been
written now and that isn't so. She spoke of the interlocal
agreement "that had been worked on at least six months".
She stated on the third line it should say "Daytona Beach
now decided." The WAY Group has been in existence since
2003 and it's now they made the decision. On the sixth
line it should say "she spoke of Daytona's coming to the
meetings once in a while". She also stated the last
sentence should state "but in the end they agreed to
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everything and they signed in back in October of 2003".
She feels this will explain it a little better.
Councilwoman Lichter moved to approve the October 10, 2005
minutes as corrected, second by Councilwoman Rhodes.
The MOTION CARRIED 5-0.
3. PRESENTATIONS/PROCLAMATIONS/PLAQUES/CERTIFICATES
/DONATIONS
There were no presentations at this time.
4. CITIZEN COMMENTS
The following citizens spoke:
Jeanne De~Nigro, 3130 Tamarind Drive, stated she is very
upset about the little girl that got hit on the bicycle
yesterday. She asked when they are going to start
enforcing the helmet law in Edgewater. There are a lot of
children riding around without their helmets and at night
there are no lights on the bikes. She didn't know if the
girl was alive or not. She knew she was in critical
condition.
Police Chief Ignasiak stated the girl is alive and is in
serious conditions. She became involved in an accident the
other day when she disregarded the crosswalk light and
decided to cross the road on the bicycle against traffic.
Police Chief Ignasiak further explained they do enforce the
helmet law. Every year at the beginning of school they go
to Edgewater Elementary and Indian River Elementary and set
up outside the schools and they have a checkpoint and they
stop kids coming in who don't have helmets. A majority of
the time the child will tell them they don't have one. We
have a helmet program and we give them a free helmet. They
send letters home and ask the parents to comply. It's
difficult to get involved with it because it involves more
parental control. Helmet or not that would not have
prevented the accident yesterday. When school starts again
we'll start back up with our helmet programs again. It's a
free giveaway.
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Ms. DelNigro asked Chief Ignasiak about the grown ups that
are riding around without lights on their bikes at night.
Chief Ignasiak informed here they have written several
individuals for riding their bikes at night without lights.
Ms. DelNigro wished everyone a Merry Christmas and Happy
New Year.
Bob Wind, resides in Mission Oaks, wished everyone a Merry
Christmas and Happy New Year. He commented on the
tremendous problem with flooding in their area. He had
pictures that show the street in front of his house, which
is Madre Street, which is all the way down at the end
towards the pond, with twenty-six inches of water in it
that he would be glad to show the Council during the break.
He lost a Honda in there one year. He also had pictures
that show the pond eight feet closer to his house than it
normally is.
Mike Schmitt, 2063 Porto, thanked everyone for coming out
last week to see what is going on out in Mission Oaks. He
hoped the guys from Oak Leaf were trying to do something to
help them out. Mr. Williams has owned this property since
1984. He mentioned County staff that has been out there
and up until the year 2000 not one of those people have
told him he could build anything out there. He went over a
drawing of their site. He commented on some concerns he
has with the County. He commented on the three retention
areas in Mission Oaks. He commented on a pipe that is
partially collapsed. He further spoke of their drainage
having nowhere to go. He feels the County has to step up
to the plate and start fixing their drainage problem or
they will never be out of the mess they are in. He stated
he had all the engineering reports and soil reports as well
as correspondence from County staff. He commented on not
having the money and this costing several million dollars
to do.
Mr. Schmitt stated he knows the developer for Oak Leaf is
trying to help them out as much as they can but they are
limited. Right now a lot of the problems with them and
what they are going to run into is going to go back to the
County not doing their job.
5. CITY COUNCIL REPORTS
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Councilman Vincenzi stated he has been bending City Manager
Hooper's ear about growth over the past couple weeks. He
has been trying to impress upon him how important it is
that they look at the Land Development Codes and modify
them as quickly as possible. His feeling is they have to
take care of what is already in the works. He spoke of
talking to the developers and have them compromise and work
with the community wherever possible. He feels new
developments needs to be stopped temporarily until they get
a chance to look at the Codes and modify them
appropriately.
Councilwoman Rhodes wished everyone a Happy Holiday.
Councilwoman Lichter commented on an article in the News
Journal regarding Daytona pulling out of WAV. There was a
meeting Wednesday of the Water Authority and Rick Shriver,
Daytona Beach's representative, was there. He did vote
against increasing the benefits to the director but he
voted for anything else in a positive manner. Two members
of the WAV Group were appointed for the negotiating
committee. They thought their main problem was they wanted
the smaller cities to have less vote and the smaller cities
in the interlocal have equal vote. Also they wanted only
the cities involved directly benefiting from a particular
project t pay and actually in the concept of WAV we're all
going to pitch in. During that meeting their
representative voted for the Chairman of WAV who is the
Mayor of Deland, Bob Apgar, and for Jack Hayman from the
County, to be at the negotiation table. From each city
there is a representative and Rick voted yes to that.
Something happened when that meeting was over. She spoke
of the Police Chief leaving Daytona Beach and five other
people that work for Daytona Beach being moved here or
there. This is not the first time the City Manager of
Daytona has pulled this kind of thing, which in essence is
a power play. They are a very important City in this group
and they are hoping they will come back. She thinks they
are doing it for power for get their way. She would not
like the State to take over our cities and what they are
going to do with their future in terms of water nor quite
frankly the County and if we don't have Daytona Beach in we
do have a problem so we are working on that.
Councilwoman Lichter stated she got a call about the tennis
courts at Whistle Stop Park. She commented on the cracks
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in the pavement being a safety factor.
in the budget to repave the courts.
She found out it is
Director of Leisure Services Jack Corder stated currently
we are out on proposals on resurfacing the courts.
Hopefully something will be done within four to six weeks.
Mayor Thomas commented on the meetings he has attended. He
did a radio talk show on December 7th. He met with the
employees of the Wastewater Collections and he is going to
try to meet his goal to meet with each City employee. He
was very impressed and learned a lot that day. He hopes to
learn a lot more. On December 9th he visited the Oak Leaf
subdivisions and Mission Oaks. He appreciated the Council
and staff taking the time to go out there. On December 17th
he attended a seminar for newly elected officials.
Mayor Thomas expressed his appreciation to City Manager
Hooper and Building Official Dennis Fischer for bending
over backwards to help Tracy Card.
Councilwoman Rogers stated she met with City Manager Hooper
and Development Services Director Darren Lear today for an
hour and a half. They are looking to do some changes to
the Land Development Code. Her goal is to deal with lot
widths at first, building heights and other items. There
are certain items that have time frames involved. If we
start making changes in March, we will not see results
until June or July of next year.
Councilwoman Rogers reported she also attended the seminar
for newly elected officials and felt it was very
informative. They learned a lot about WAV, VCOG, and the
MPO, which she has been appointed to. She spoke of
transportation and the north south road that we are needing
to have go through this City being a serious concern to the
City. She wants the public to realize that she does want
economic development in this City but they must plan and
manage it. She wants to see responsible growth.
6. PUBLIC HEARINGS, ORDINANCES AND RESOLUTIONS
A. Public Hearing, Oak Leaf Preserve, Inc.
requesting preliminary plat approval for a
single-family residential subdivision to be known
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as Oak leaf Preserve (cont. from 12/5/05, Item
6A)
City Manager Hooper made a staff presentation. He spoke of
walking the property. Some of the improvements did not
appear to be in place to take the water to Old Mission. He
also commented on some of the things that have been done to
date. The preliminary plat meets all of the conditions and
requirements for drainage, land use, and comprehensive
plan.
Glenn Storch, Law firm of Storch, Morris and Harris,
commented on this being a preliminary plat situation. He
further commented on the City having a PUD Agreement with
the landowner, which has parameters to meet in order to
develop this property. He then went over the parameters in
this case. He stated Mike Evans and Forte MacAulay wanting
to be good neighbors. He spoke of flooding issues in
Mission Oaks. He went over what some of the problems were
and what can be addressed as part of this project. He
spoke of what Mr. Evans has agreed to do.
Attorney Storch commented on concerns expressed regarding
the size of the lots. He spoke of increasing the lot sizes
to fifty-five feet. He spoke of decreasing the impervious
area by about ten percent. He commented on the designing
of new projects compared to when Mission Oaks was built
that did not meet the current standards. He spoke of
working with staff to reduce the impervious areas even
more. He again spoke of trying to do what they can to be a
good neighbor.
City Manager Hooper commented on a fairly new product
called pervious concrete that has voids in it that will let
water go directly through. The developer has indicated
they will look where it is feasible. He commented on this
being a difficult product to work with. He spoke of other
types of pervious substance that could be put in its place.
He feels this will keep more water on site and will help
recharge the aquifer.
Glenn Storch commented on the pervious surface being very
rough. He agreed to work with staff to make sure they do
everything they can to use that product or other products
like it where they can.
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Councilwoman Rhodes asked above driveways.
stated those areas might be appropriate and
looking at that.
Attorney Storch
they will be
Councilwoman Lichter commented on Mission Oaks
problems and this being a difficult situation.
of the developer coming in and helping them in
with their flooding problems. She wasn't sure
legalities of the developer going in and doing
their property works.
having many
She spoke
some manner
how the
something in
Attorney Storch stated if they don't want us to do that we
won't do that. His general inclination is to first of all
solve the problem. If there is a problem they can help
solve they will do that. He expressed concern with any
litigation potential because it has been so long. This was
probably a poorly engineered project years and years ago.
He doesn't know where this is going to go. If they can
help solve that problem and at the same time make sure they
are doing something good for the City and the landowner
that is what he is trying to do.
Councilwoman Lichter asked about the involvement of the
County. She questioned them having to approve certain
things and working with the County on this too.
City Manager Hooper commented on a use permit that will
talk about some connection out to the Old Mission drainage
easement.
Councilman Vincenzi feels it is very nice that the
developer is offering to improve the drainage conditions
there but he is bothered because they keep saying it is not
their problem. He feels it is their problem when they are
going to be tapping into that canal. You may not have
caused the problem Mission Oaks has now but by virtue of
the fact that you want to tap into a drainage system that
doesn't work it is your problem. He feels it is very good
that they are offering to improve it.
Attorney Storch commented on not having problems that stop
at property lines. For the most part, all of their water
will be held onsite and maintained so they are dealing with
that.
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Councilman Vincenzi stated except what overflows. Attorney
Storch informed him that is correct but only the extent it
overflows right now. More importantly, these are
neighbors. It's going to be a lot better for our
development if their friendly with their neighbors as well.
Councilman Vincenzi feels it will help improve the
conditions they have now but he doesn't think it will solve
them. He appreciated the fact that they are going with
fifty-five foot lots but he still doesn't like fifty or
fifty-five foot lots.
Councilwoman Rogers expressed concern with the developer
going in and fixing the problem and questioned who will be
responsible for the maintenance. Attorney Storch informed
her the ditch itself they are clearing out and maintaining,
they will be responsible for maintaining. They have agreed
to, if they donate an easement to them for doing that, he
will put that in his covenants and restrictions for the
homeowners to then maintain that.
Councilwoman Rogers then expressed concern with three feet
of fill dirt being brought in. She feels by this being
done there will be more problems for Mission Oaks.
Attorney Storch explained it won't be a problem for Mission
Oaks because of the fact it will be engineered to deal with
that. He spoke of increasing the amount of stormwater
storage for this area as well.
Councilwoman Rogers feels because of the soil type the
fifty-five foot lots still seem to be too small. She spoke
of the slab covering up a majority of the lots. She feels
there will be some water issues between these pieces of
property. Attorney Storch stated by increasing to fifty-
five and maintaining their setbacks at seven and a half,
actual impervious coverage will be less than forty-six
percent.
Mayor Thomas stated he has done a bunch of research and
asked a bunch of questions on this. He met with City
Manager Hooper and the developers last Friday. He feels
the problem is Florida Shores is full and people are moving
here every day and we have to have some place for them to
move to. He spoke of walking the area and it being low.
He spoke of Florida Shores having the same elevation and
all of Florida Shores being fill.
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Mayor Thomas asked how many acres are being left for
wetlands. Attorney Storch informed him twenty-seven acres
would be totally preserved.
Mayor Thomas stated and the way the lakes are done and the
drainage, to him they are doing it in the best way fashion.
He asked if they could increase the size of the lots, which
they did and he is sure five foot doesn't seem like a lot.
He asked how many lots they will lose by doing that. He
was informed twenty lots. They talked about other ways of
the drainage. He expressed concern with the drainage that
is going into the earth. The only major concern he has is
the drainage eventually going into the Turnbull Hammock and
what will they do when they can't dump into the Turnbull
Hammock. That would be a future goal to set aside that
land to have that where they can dump into that in the
future.
Attorney Storch stated regarding the pervious concrete, St.
Johns would consider them impervious therefore they would
still design the stormwater to deal with those issues.
Attorney Storch again they are trying to bring this up.
The area they are talking about was originally forty-foot
lots and that area had been cleared before.
Councilman Vincenzi asked if they are going to be putting
in mobile homes. Attorney Storch informed him they are
not. Councilman Vincenzi questioned why he keeps comparing
forty-foot lots to what is going in there now. Attorney
Storch stated he is just trying to bring up the history.
He thought this property was supposed to be part of Mission
Oaks at one point because it was cleared at one point. It
is a disturbed site. They have tried to learn from
mistakes and do it right. Florida Shores did not have any
wetlands areas that were preserved and didn't have any
stormwater provided for it.
Attorney Storch commented on a stormwater utility that is
just going into place with regard to the Turnbull Hammock
but they need to start looking as a whole, developing
stormwater for entire areas, not just individual
developments.
Councilwoman Rogers asked about the percentage of
impervious concrete that will be used in this project.
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Attorney Storch informed her they would be working with
City Manager Hooper on areas they can put it in. They are
going to reduce the amount of actual impervious concrete as
much as possible.
Councilwoman Rogers commented on this new product still
having to be maintained because if the voids are blocked at
some point it will have to be maintained so the water can
still filter back down. By approving this tonight how can
they dictate this new product in various locations? It
sounds good but they may only use five percent of it and
that isn't doing much for her. City Manager Hooper
informed her it would be coming back.
Councilwoman Lichter asked if you really need concrete
driveways. Attorney Storch informed her yes. These are
part of the Land Development Code requirements.
Mayor Thomas opened the public hearing.
The following citizen spoke:
Mike Schmitt, 2063 Porto Blvd, informed Attorney Storch he
didn't know where he was getting his information from as
far as Mission Oaks goes but the minimum lot size is sixty
by a hundred. This was on the original prospective from
1982. He further commented on water runoff increasing
dramatically when roads, streets, driveways, and buildings
are put in.
Councilwoman Rhodes stated St. John's wouldn't permit them
if that occurs. Mr. Schmitt stated St. Johns permitted
Mission Oaks. It's so old they can't even find it.
Councilwoman Rhodes stated things have changed since then.
Mr. Schmitt stated as the land stands right now you have a
certain amount of runoff. Councilwoman Rhodes stated and
they have to engineer and build drainage to accommodate
that extra runoff. Mr. Schmitt then commented on raising
the property three feet. Councilwoman Rhodes stated and
they have to accommodate that as well. Mr. Schmitt stated
it's not their fault, we're in a fish bowl and we have to
go back to the developer, which has had this mess since
1982, which the County has never allowed him to permit the
building there. The soil composition is wrong. The water
tables are too high. The streets are too low. They took
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this over four months ago. He expressed his appreciation
for what they are trying to do. This developer still has
fifty lots in there. They own part of something. They
have never seen paperwork giving them title to anything.
All he has is an appraiser's report saying they took this
over in 1999. He spoke of needing to get permission from
then and needing to find the developer because he still has
a majority of the lots. They have got a mess on their
hands. Mission Road is higher than that whole site. I
don't care how much you clean the ditches out. You cannot
get water to run uphill. It finds its lowest level, which
unfortunately for them is that retention pond.
Councilwoman Lichter asked Mr. Schmitt what his goal is.
She asked if he didn't want them to build at all. Mr.
Schmitt stated they are below the twenty-five year flood
plat. Their retention pond is below the flood levels.
Mission Road is the highest point out there. In order to
get water out on Mission Road, they're going to have
several feet of water at the far end of this property.
Water will find the lowest level and work up to it's high
level. He commented on the crushed pipe at the bottom of
the Mission Road canal. He spoke of putting the pipe on
top. He spoke of water building up behind them and the
fact that they will be under water before it even starts to
drain. They have got major problems out there and there is
no fix to it.
Councilwoman Rhodes stated unfortunately the City can't
solve their flooding problems but what they can do is not
make them worse and they can ensure the developer won't
make them worse.
Mayor Thomas closed the public hearing.
Counci~woman Lichter moved to approve the pre~iminary p~at
for a sing~e-fami~y residentia~ subdivision to be known as
Oak ~eaf Preserve, second by Counci~woman Rhodes.
City Manager Hooper added that all commitments made to the
City Clerk rely on the public record be included as part of
the motion. Councilwoman Lichter stated she made that
assumption when they stood up and said it.
Mayor Thomas stated about the fifty-five foot lots.
Councilwoman Lichter stated and how much concrete they will
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use and what degree she doesn't
tonight but they will look into
agreement.
think can be ascertained
it as part of the
City Manager Hoper informed Council they would see all of
that with the final plat. Councilwoman Lichter stated the
preliminary plat will move this along so that the soil can
be tested and the engineers can look at it and all the
things can happen if we move it along.
Mayor Thomas stated so your motion was made with the
addition of the fifty-five foot and to use the impervious
concrete when possible.
Councilwoman Lichter stated yes definitely and to do the
repair work to the property next door, which is in the
County, called New Smyrna, to help alleviate some of their
existing conditions.
The MOTION CARRIED 4-1. Counci~woman Roqers voted NO.
B. 2nd Reading, Ord. No. 2005-0-49, Glen Storch,
agent for Worthington Creek Investment, Inc.,
requesting an amendment to the Official Zoning
Map to include 155.64~ acres of land located west
of US1 and northwest of William Street as RPUD
(Residential Planned Unit Development) and
approval of associated RPUD Agreement (Item 6C on
12/5/05 cont. to 1/9/06, to be cont. to 1/23/06)
C. 2nd Reading, Ord. No. 2005-0-50, Glenn Storch,
agent for John and Patricia Hickey, requesting an
amendment to the Official Zoning Map to include
29.20+ acres of land located west of US1 and
north of Clinton Cemetery Road as RPUD
(Residential Planned Unit Development) and
approval of associated RPUD Agreement (Item 60 on
12/5/05 cont. to 1/9/06, to be cont to 1/23/06)
City Manager Hooper commented on Items B & C being
scheduled for January 9th. They still haven't heard back
from the State. Councilman Vincenzi brought up last time
he will not be in town so it will be continued until
January 23rd. He asked for a motion to continue these
items until January 23rd.
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Councilwoman Rhodes moved to continue Items 6B and 6C until
the January 23, 2006 meeting, second by Councilman
Vincenzi.
The MOTION CARRIED 5-0.
There was a ten-minute recess at this time. The meeting
recessed at 8:05 p.m. and reconvened at 8:15 p.m.
D. 2nd Reading, Ord. No. 2005-0-51, Trajan Joe Sfera
requesting an amendment to the Official Zoning
Map to include 12.01= acres of land west of US1
and south of Relocation Road and 4100 S. US1 as
B-3 (Highway Commercial) (Item 6E on 12/5/05
cont. to 1/9/06, to be cont. to 2/13/06)
E. 1st Reading, Ord. No. 2005-0-56, Paul and Tomoko
Newsom and Robert Jalbert, Jr. requesting an
amendment to the Official Zoning Map to include
12= acres of property located at 2203 and 2295
Cow Creek Road as AG (Agriculture) and RT (Rural
Transitional) (Item 6F cont. to 1/9/06 to be
cont. to 2/13/06)
City Manager Hooper informed Council Items D & E will be
continued until February 13th to spread it out so they have
four or five as the max number of land use decisions.
Councilwoman Rhodes moved to continue items 6D & 6E until
the February 13, 2006 meeting, second by Councilwoman
Lichter.
The MOTION CARRIED 5-0.
F. 2nd Reading, Ord. No. 2005-0-55, John Massey
requesting an amendment to the Official Zoning
Map to include 8.12= acres of land located west
of Massey Ranch Boulevard and east of the Massey
Ranch Airpark runway as RPUD (Residential Planned
Unit Development) and approval of associated RPUD
Agreement
Paralegal Matusick read Ord. 2005-0-55 into the record.
City Manager Hooper made a staff presentation.
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Due to there being no comments, Mayor Thomas opened and
closed the public hearing.
John Massey stated he would be more than happy to answer
any questions.
Mayor Thomas feels this is a well thought about
development.
Councibnan Vincenzi moved to approve Ord. 2005-0-55, John
Massey requesting an amendment to the Officia~ Zoning Map
to inc~ude 8.12+ acres of ~and ~ocated west of Massey Ranch
Bou~evard and east of the Massey Ranch Airpark runway as
RPUD (Residentia~ P~anned Unit Deve~opment) and approva~ of
associated RPUD Agreement, second by Counci~woman Lichter.
The MOTION CARRIED 5-0.
G. 1st Reading, Ord. No. 2005-0-57, Robert E.
Jalbert, Sr., previous owner who transferred the
property to Douglas Klein, requesting an
amendment to the Official Zoning Map to include
1.15+ acres of property located at 3207 Eels
Grove Road as RT (Rural Transitional)
Paralegal Matusick read Ord. 2005-0-57 into the record.
City Manager Hooper made a staff presentation.
Development Services Director Lear commented on there being
no plans for this but this does have an existing single-
family residence on it. He further commented on when the
urban growth boundaries were around before they were voted
on, he requested to annex into the City along with the
twelve acres City Manager Hooper mentioned because the
proposed urban growth boundary did not include his
property.
Due to there being no comments, Mayor Thomas opened and
closed the public hearing.
Councilwoman Rhodes stated if he sold this land to someone
who wanted to build, she assumed they could have three or
four. City Manager Hoper stated it is one unit to the
acre. If he sold it to someone else, they could have to go
through a Comp Plan, Small Scale and a zoning. It just
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gets combined with the lots then it would be a Large Scale
with the twelve acres adjacent to it. The zoning runs with
the land. He is just looking at coming into the City.
That area has an unknown development pattern right now.
Counci~woman Lichter moved to approve Ord. 2005-0-57,
Robert E. Ja~bert, Sr., previous owner who transferred the
property to Doug~as Klein, requesting an amendment to the
Officia~ Zoning Map to inc~ude 1.15+ acres of property
~ocated at 3207 Ee~s Grove Road as RT (Rura~ Transitiona~),
second by Counci~n Vincenzi.
The MOTION CARRIED 5-0.
H. 2nd Reading, Ord. No. 2005-0-53, amending Section
1-9 (Additional Court Cost for Law Enforcement
Education) of Chapter 1 (General Provisions) of
the Code of Ordinances
Paralegal Matusick read Ord. 2005-0-53 into the record.
City Manager Hooper made a staff presentation.
Due to there being no comments, Mayor Thomas opened and
closed the public hearing.
Counci~woman Rhodes moved to approve Ord. 2005-0-53,
amending Section 1-9 (Additiona~ Court Cost for Law
Enforcement Education) of Chapter 1 (Genera~ Provisions) of
the Code of Ordinances, second by Counci~n Vincenzi.
The MOTION CARRIED 5-0.
I. 2nd Reading, Ord. No. 2005-0-54, amending Section
5-70 (Enforcement) of Chapter 5 (Animals & Fowl -
Animal Control) of the Code of Ordinances
Paralegal Matusick read Ord. 2005-0-54 into the record.
City Manager Hooper made a staff presentation.
Due to there being no comments, Mayor Thomas opened and
closed the public hearing.
Counci~woman Lichter moved to approve Ord. 2005-0-54,
amending Section 5-70 (Enforcement) of Chapter 5 (Animals &
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Fow~ - Anima~ Contro~) or the Code or Ordinances, second by
Counci~woman Rhodes.
The MOTION CARRIED 5-0.
J. Res. No. 2005-R-17, adopting the Comprehensive
Emergency Management Plan (CEMP)
Paralegal Matusick read Res. 2005-R-17 into the record.
City Manager Hooper made a staff presentation.
Councilwoman Lichter asked if people need to be trained
does the County provide that free or do we pay for that
kind of training. City Manager Hooper informed her it is
usually a mixture. There are some State dollars and some
Federal dollars depending on what area that you're
training.
Councilwoman Rhodes questioned the Food and Water section
on the Table on Page 5 specifying it falls under the
Finance Department as a Lead Department. City Manager
Hooper confirmed it falls under a Support Department and
Leisure Services specified Support Department and it
actually falls under Lead Department. This has been
corrected on the Ordinance side.
Councilman Vincenzi asked if this is the final version.
Fire Chief Barlow informed him that was correct.
Councilman Vincenzi asked if changes could be made to it if
you thought of something new and extraordinary. Fire Chief
Barlow stated it is a live working document and they
continue to change it. They hope to modify it on a two-
year basis taking input from everybody starting with the
Council all the way down to the Department Directors.
City Manager Hooper asked if other cities have adopted it
at this point. Fire Chief Barlow informed him we are one
of the few. The only other city he knows of that has a
plan completed and adopted is the City of Port Orange.
Councilman Vincenzi commented on New Orleans and people
showing up for work after disasters because they had to
take care of their families. He asked if there were any
plans for that like emergency workers like firemen and
police. Fire Chief Barlow stated that is the next stage he
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wants to get into with the Department Directors to identify
different levels of employees. They will probably have
three levels of employees. Depending on what type of
emergency it is which ones are required to stay and which
ones are allowed to evacuate.
City Manager Hooper commented on the three hurricanes of
last year.
Councilman Vincenzi commented on New Orleans and a lot of
emergency workers such as police that didn't show up for
work because they were worried about their families and
they had to evacuate too.
Councilwoman Lichter and Councilwoman Rhodes commented on
New Orleans having a total communication breakdown.
Councilwoman Rhodes also mentioned not being able to
physically get back because of the flooding. Councilman
Vincenzi doesn't want to worry about necessary emergency
personnel not showing up for work.
Mayor Thomas asked what progress they have made. He has
read the condensed version of the report and it looks very
good but we've got to have some place to house these people
to get them back in. He feels we have an excellent piece
of property to do that. He asked City manager Hooper if he
has made any contact. City Manager Hooper commented on
what has occurred with regard to grant programs.
Mayor Thomas opened the public hearing.
The following citizen spoke:
Pat Card, 3019 Willow Oak Drive, stated lots of times you
hear people say I don't want to annex any more land at all
to this City but tonight by Council's actions they did a
first class job of influencing that developer. Your
chances of influencing that trailer park, which is what it
would have been in the County, would have been very low.
The next time you have an annexation you are thinking about
remember it is easier for the public to get and talk to the
Council and show them the problems and the developer is
more likely willing to work with Council as a result of
that in this community because they want to stay here and
they want to be good neighbors. There are two areas we
need to think about getting into and Mayor Thomas knows
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both of them and he mentioned one of them tonight an the
other one is west of 1-95 and as much as the Spruce Creek
Swamp as we can preserve out there we want to.
Mayor Thomas closed the public hearing.
Counci~woman Rhodes moved to approve Res. 2005-R-17,
adopting the Comprehensive Emergency Management P~an
(CEMP), second by Counci~woman Rogers.
The MOTION CARRIED 5-0.
7. BOARD APPOINTMENTS
There were no Board Appointments at this time.
8. CONSENT AGENDA
There were no items to be discussed on the Consent Agenda
at this time.
9. OTHER BUSINESS
A. Continuing Contracting Services - staff
recommending authorizing City Manager to enter
into negotiations with HGR Construction, Inc.,
Antinori Group, Inc. and Hall Construction Co.
Inc. to perform continuing contracting services
and authorize City Manager to execute the
agreements
City Manager Hooper made a staff presentation. He
commented on where the businesses are located and what work
they have done for the City and other cities. HGR carne
highly recommended.
Councilman Vincenzi asked how they would be selected when a
project comes along. City Manager Hooper explained.
Councilwoman Lichter moved to approve City Manager Hooper
enter into negotiations with HGR Construction, Inc.,
Antinori Group, Inc. and Hall Construction Co. Inc. to
perform continuing contracting services and authorizing
City Manager Hooper to execute the agreements, second by
Councilwoman Rhodes.
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The MOTION CARRIED 5-0.
B. Architectural and Engineering Services - staff
recommending approval to authorize OJ Design,
Inc. to provide "Services" for a joint Public
Safety Complex to be located at 3930 US1
City Manager Hooper made a staff presentation.
There was a brief discussion regarding what the grants will
cover.
Mayor Thomas questioned it costing $200,000 just for the
design. City Manager Hooper stated it turns out to be
about 6 to 7% of the construction value when they were
looking at the cost of the three facilities. Anything less
than a ten percent number is pretty much standard. He
feels they are getting a good price. He spoke of this
being negotiated by Fire Chief Barlow from $240,000 down to
$199,000.
Councilman Vincenzi asked if the $199,975 would be coming
out of impact fees. City Manager Hooper informed him that
was correct. Councilman Vincenzi asked which ones. City
Manager Hooper informed him Police, Fire & the Animal
Shelter.
Councilman Vicnenzi asked City Manager Hooper if he had a
breakdown of what each one will cost. City Manager Hooper
informed him it's $34,950 for the Animal Shelter and Public
Safety is $165,000. He didn't have a breakdown of Police
and Fire because it will be one building.
Councilwoman Rogers asked what the time frame was for the
design and when it will be complete. City Manager Hoper
informed her it is about a six-month period for the public
safety. They are going to get going on the Animal Shelter
first.
City Manager Hooper commented on closing on the property.
Councilwoman Rogers stated and then between the time the
design is going to be complete and the time we start
permitting what is the time difference going to be. She
expressed concern that there would be a design complete and
there would be a period of time before the actual permit is
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pulled and we might
back and adjust the
City Manager Hooper
incur additional cost for them to go
design because of changes or what not.
elaborated on her concerns.
Councilwoman Rhodes asked if we have any architectural
engineering services in Edgewater. She would prefer to
give our business to local people. City Manager Hooper
stated he can think of two but he didn't think they did
public safety facilities. City Manager Hooper commented on
trying hard to find local opportunities.
Councilwoman Rhodes moved to approve authorizing DJ Design,
Inc. to provide "Services" for a joint Public Safety
Complex to be located at 3930 US1, second by Councilwoman
Lichter.
The MOTION CARRIED 5-0.
C. Equipment Purchase - staff recommending declaring
Pedal Valves, Inc. a sole source supplier and
authorize purchase of water meters and related
equipment for a cost of $26,775.18
City Manager Hooper made a staff presentation.
Due to there being no comments, Mayor Thomas opened and
closed the public hearing.
Councilwoman Lichter moved to approve declaring Pedal
Valves, Inc. a sole source supplier and authorize purchase
of water meters and related equipment for a cost of
$26,775.18, second by Councilwoman Rhodes.
The MOTION CARRIED 5-0.
D. Alan R. Thomas Water Treatment Plant - staff
recommending issuing Notice to Award to McMahan
Construction in the amount of $998,000 for lime
sludge handling and disinfection improvements and
authorize the Mayor/City Manager to execute the
contract
City Manager Hooper made a staff presentation.
Mayor Thomas asked if this is yearly or just for this
amount and how many times this has to be done. Director of
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Environmental Services Terry Wadsworth explained as far as
the permanent improvements, it's just a one-time thing for
all three of the components. He further commented on each
of the three components being the lime sludge handling,
converting the disinfection process from pressurized gas
chlorination to liquid Sodium Hyopochlorite disinfection
and replacing the doors at the Water Plant to meet current
hurricane standards and to provide necessary safety access
hardware on the doors. He further commented on using
McMahan Construction in the past.
Mayor Thomas asked if this is the first time we've had to
do this at the Water Plant. Mr. Wadsworth informed him
yes.
City Manager Hooper asked if Quentin Hampton did the design
on all three of these. Mr. Wadsworth stated it is all one
design, and it's one project, and they did the whole thing.
Councilman Vincenzi moved to approve issuing the Notice to
Award to McMahan Construction in the amount of $998,000 for
~ime s~udge han~ing and disinfection ~rovements and
authorize the Mayor/City Manager to execute the contract,
second by Counci~woman Lichter.
The MOTION CARRIED 5-0.
10. OFFICER REPORTS
A. City Clerk Wadsworth wished everyone a Happy
Holiday.
B. Paralegal Matusick had nothing at this time.
C. City Manager Hooper
City Manager Hooper went over the Tentative Agenda Items
listing and highlighted certain items that will be
discussed at each of the meetings. He also commented on
the applications received by the Planning Department with
regard to unscheduled upcoming hearings.
Councilwoman Lichter commented on having a workshop over
the Snowden Property. She asked if the County is still
involved. City Manager Hooper informed her they would
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December 19,2005
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review the DRI.
come later.
There is a point and a place.
They just
City Manager Hooper continued to go over the Tentative
Agenda Items listing. He made mention of the rezoning of
110 acres on property located on Old Mission Road, which is
north of Oak Leaf Preserve.
Mayor Thomas asked how much has been done on that one.
City Manager Hooper informed him it has been through the
land use. It has no City zoning granted. It has not
reached the same stage as where Council was tonight. They
will have much more flexibility on that. He has serious
doubts that this is a doable project with the drainage.
City Manager Hooper again continued to go over the
Tentative Agenda Items listing by commenting on the January
17th work session.
Councilman Vincenzi questioned Clay Henderson's
presentation on Smart Growth. City Manager Hooper informed
him it is different then the presentation by Glenn Storch
at the Community College. He explained he has more of an
environmental approach.
Councilwoman Lichter hoped that the Planning and Zoning
Board would be encouraged to come. Pat Card was the only
member to attend the first workshop.
Mayor Thomas questioned the Tentative Agenda Items listing
being tentative and subject to change. City Manager Hooper
presented reasons why it would change.
Councilman Vincenzi feels they really need to talk about
how they are going to change the Land Development Code.
City Manager Hooper commented on the Work Session they will
hold on January 28th to discuss these changes. He suggested
items he would consider changing. He spoke of gross
density and net density and height standards except in PUD
Agreements.
Councilwoman Lichter asked how long the other type of
changes take, the different stages they have to go through.
City Manager Hooper elaborated on gross density and net
density.
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Councilwoman Lichter asked if they have to
bodies than the City. City Manager Hooper
to DCA and they review it.
go to other
stated they go
Councilman Vincenzi asked about drainage issues. City
Manager Hooper informed him the drainage issues are the
City's. They are in the Land Development Code and the
Council has sole control of that.
Councilwoman Rhodes asked how that affects somebody that is
already in the works. City Manager Hooper explained if
somebody has already been granted or vested with a zoning
category, they're there, RPUD.
Councilman Vincenzi informed Council he would not be
available from January 4th through January 12th. With the
exception of those dates he can make arrangements to meet
anytime to have a special meeting or whatever. He feels
these changes are something they need to get moving on
right away. He feels once the developers get wind of this,
they're going to start banging on the door wanting to
submit plans and they're going to want to sneak in under
the radar before the changes. He feels this is something
they really need to put the extra time into.
City Manager Hooper commented on holding a work session on
a Saturday. He commented on this being a lengthy work
session. Councilwoman Lichter doesn't mind the frequency
if it isn't so many hours. City Manager Hooper commented
on them having lunch. Councilwoman Lichter suggested
holding it one morning.
City Manager Hooper further commented on discussing
architectural standards and lot sizes.
Councilwoman Lichter commented on every situation being
different and she feels they should start looking at what
we already have. City Manager Hooper commented on the lot
sizes on Riverside Drive and in Florida Shores. He spoke
of Council having control over the lot sizes.
Councilwoman Lichter commented on how she felt clustering
would work in terms of agriculture and having horses. She
feels there are different circumstances for different
things.
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Councilwoman Rhodes stated that is why we have the RPUD.
She commented on the Councilmembers having a difference of
opinion regarding lot sizes. Councilwoman Rogers spoke of
having a larger minimum for wetland property.
Councilwoman Lichter commented on still trying to digest
Smart Growth and what it means.
City Manager Hooper informed Council if that's what they
want to do they can hold that work session. He then
commented on having stronger drainage requirements.
Councilwoman Lichter feels heighth and drainage are very
important.
After some discussion amongst the Council, they decided on
January 28th to hold this work session.
City Manager Hooper asked if there was anybody else they
wanted there.
It was the consensus of Council to get a list of ideas
together first.
Councilman Vincenzi mentioned limiting what comes before
them and having a chance to discuss the changes. Mayor
Thomas stated he was all for that.
Councilman Vincenzi again expressed concern with rushing
items through. Mayor Thomas stated they have the right to
postpone it. Councilman Vincenzi would like to see a
consensus on this.
Councilwoman Rhodes commented on the money people have into
these projects and it not being fair to tie them up with
their money. She suggested making them aware of what is
going on.
Councilman Vincenzi stated as far as he is concerned
anything new that comes forward he is going to vote no or
to continue it. Once these developments get approved,
there is no turning back many times and it affects the
people in the community for many years to come.
Councilman Vincenzi commented on the sixteen-story condos
and feels they may not want to put sixteen-stories like
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they want but they are going to put something there.
Councilwoman Rhodes informed him our zoning allowed them to
do it. Councilman Vincenzi stated this City Council voted
on this zoning and it's here now and we're stuck with it
and he doesn't want that to happen again.
Councilman Vincenzi stated he wants to stop developments
from coming through and getting to that point where the
Council doesn't really have much of a say.
Councilwoman Rhodes stated we have a say from the very
first day. This Council is the only one that has a say.
Councilman Vincenzi stated this Council fails to stop
people from doing things. Councilwoman Rhodes stated up
until now nobody stopped it. Councilwoman Lichter stated
or you. Councilwoman Rhodes stated or you either.
Councilman Vincenzi stated he has tried to stop a number of
them. Councilwoman Rhodes stated the five votes on this
Council is what makes that decision. If there are enough
votes to stop it, then it will stop.
Councilwoman Rogers commented on City Manager Hooper
indicating to her that they could do a moratorium
specifically on residential and they could put a time frame
on it so they don't have to be concerned with something
coming to the Council and a couple of the Councilmembers
saying no and the rest saying yes and something getting
approved that they don't want to get approved. So couldn't
they do that and if they do it in that way then she would
not think that they are open for the potential of lawsuits
when they are saying that they are doing this and they give
some specific reasons.
City Manager Hooper further commented on having to put on
the record a reason why. I don't want growth is not a
reason that would work. About water capacity, sewer
capacity, drainage problems, those are legal statements
that would substantially hold up in court. I want to
change the way we do business from now on would not.
Councilwoman Rogers stated so the land use change isn't
legal. City Manager Hooper stated it's not by itself. You
could say I'm going to put a six-month moratorium. I'm
going to redo my Land Development Codes and I'm going to
look at certain things in the Land Development Codes and
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we're close. Councilwoman Rogers stated and we're going to
go over the drainage issue. City Manager Hooper stated he
couldn't tell them they wouldn't get sued and that they
would not prevail. He stated for those that have not been
vested in some format, the Council still holds all the
cards. When they tell him what they want to change in the
codes then he could tell them they could do a moratorium.
Today if you said draft me an ordinance declaring an
emergency moratorium I have to say why. We're not there
yet.
Councilwoman Lichter feels you have to balance it by what a
developer also might do or what you might end up next to
you if they decide to stay in the County and put in what
they please. She feels they can slow it down but they
don't need to stop all development.
City
such
work
that.
Manager Hooper commented on exposure on properties
as Forte Macaulay. He commented on them wanting to
with the City. He spoke of having some control over
The others they have all the control over.
Councilwoman Rhodes feels they need to be accountable for
that as a Council. If something goes through that passes
three votes to two, well you know what, that's the way it
works. If it doesn't, it doesn't. The buck stops here.
We need to know individually as well as a group. They need
to decide where the line is until these new rules are in
place. If it's a new development coming through and you
don't want it to happen, then you vote no.
Councilwoman Rhodes informed Councilman Vincenzi she wasn't
disagreeing with him. What she was disagreeing with was
the method by which it occurs.
11. CITIZEN COMMENTS/CORRESPONDENCE
The following citizen spoke:
Ben De~Nigro, 3130 Tamarind Drive, commented on the little
girl that was hit by the truck on Indian River Boulevard.
He understands the Police Department doesn't have the
manpower or the time to go chase these kids on their
bicycles with no helmets. He volunteered to do that job
two or three days a week if the Police Department can't do
it because tonight he had three kids run out in front of
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his car and he couldn't see them until he was on top of
them.
11 . ADJOURNMENT
There being no further business to discuss, Councilwoman
Rhodes moved to adjourn. The meeting adjourned at 9:30
p.m.
Minutes submitted by:
Lisa Bloomer
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