09-28-2009 - Workshop
CITY COUNCIL OF EDGEWATER
WORKSHOP
SEPTEMBER 28, 2009
5:00 P.M.
COUNCIL CHAMBERS
MINUTES
CALL TO ORDER
Mayor Thomas called the Workshop to order at 5:00 p.m. in the Council
Chambers.
ROLL CALL
Mayor Michael Thomas
Councilwoman Debra Rogers
Councilwoman Gigi Bennington
Councilwoman Harriet Rhodes
Councilman Ted Cooper
City Manager Tracey Barlow
City Clerk Bonnie Wenzel
City Attorney Carolyn Ansay
Present
Present
Present
Present
Present
Present
Present
Present
MEETING PURPOSE
The purpose of the meeting was for Council to hear a presentation by
Glenn Storch on the Farmton Property Comprehensive Plan Amendment.
Mayor Thomas turned the meeting over to Glenn Storch.
Glenn Storch, Law Firm of Storch, Morris & Harris, thanked the Council
and expressed his appreciation for them meeting with him before the
Regular Meeting.
Attorney Storch commented on Miami Corp, who is Edgewater's neighbor
all along the southern border with Restoration, being engaged in a
vision process with Brevard County and Volusia County.
Attorney Storch commented on Rural Land Stewardship and meeting with
literally hundreds of people to give them a vision of what that could
or should be. He spoke of the property being 94 square miles and all
ranchettes being planned for this property. They decided to start
looking at some other things as well. Miami Corp purchased this
property in 1925 because they saw this as an up and coming area. He
further spoke of this property being forestry since the 1960's and
forestry declining over the last ten years. He commented on the
County constantly changing the land use rights on this property, which
they continue to do. All of their land use rights to put a
subdivision on the property is vested but this takes out all the
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habitat corridor. He further spoke of the suggestion by DCA to look
at Rural Land Stewardship where they trade density and intensity for
environmental corridors. They agreed to look at that.
Attorney Storch further commented on ranchettes and over time taking
these environmental wetland corridors and doing away with those. He
felt it wasn't a good system all the way around. In the early 1980's
they thought by doing ranchettes they would decrease density and in
fact preserve environment. What happened was the exact opposite. He
further commented on Rural Sprawl, clustering and preserving
everything else.
Attorney Storch then commented on a parcel right in the middle of the
Farmton Property. They try to buy up every enclave they can.
Attorney Storch described what they were talking about was doing
something other than ranchettes. He spoke of Restoration probably
absorbing most of the growth in that area for years to come, which is
okay with them. He commented on his clients giving them the
opportunity to plan. They are looking at a 50-year plan.
Attorney Storch commented on this being important because there is an
environmental corridor trying to be established with the State and
this being a key part of that and without it they have a break in that
corridor.
Attorney Storch further commented on looking at and creating habitat
corridors. He further commented on the types of animals that use the
habitat corridors.
Attorney Storch commented on the Regional Trail and the issues
involved with making this a reality. This project took three years.
Attorney Storch then spoke about the green areas represented must have
habitat and this being what they are going to preserve. Over 50 years
Farmton will preserve 75% of its land.
Mayor Thomas asked how this works with the Smart Growth Principles set
by the Volusia County Smart Growth Committee. Attorney Storch
explained Volusia County adopted the Smart Growth principles as part
of their Comprehensive Plan. They utilized all of those in designing
this. He spoke of starting with linkages and consensus building and
looking at this long term.
Attorney Storch then commented on one of the Smart Growth Principles
being clustering and trying to cluster their developments into the
areas where they should be and then after deciding where they are
going to preserve the other areas. He pointed out in this case they
are clustering the initial entitlements they are entitled to and
putting them in the brown area, which is within the Edgewater service
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area. Anything to be developed between now and 2027 has to go in that
area. Everything else until 2027 is basically wiped out as far as
density is concerned.
Attorney Storch they want to make sure they are providing their fair
share. He then commented on the City being concerned about water
issues and this project having potential water resources. They are
working with staff to try and come up with a way of providing those
water resources now even though they may not be using them. He spoke
of representing Miami Corp for 20 years and Edgewater always being a
good neighbor. They want to continue to work with Edgewater to solve
the water issues. He also made mention of working with Volusia County
to create a partnership as well as entering into a joint venture with
Titusville to solve some of their water issues.
Attorney Storch informed Council the maximum they could place in the
Gateway Area is 4,692 units and 820,000 square feet of commercial or
industrial based on their current entitlements they have under the
Comp Plan. Until they have a capacity enhancement agreement with the
schools the amount of units that will be allowed to be placed there
until 2027 unless they change the agreement which he didn't anticipate
was 2,287 units, tops. Miami Corporation is not a developer. They
have been a landowner and good steward of the land but they want to
try to create a vision for what this land could be and should be in
the future as opposed to ranchettes.
Attorney Storch felt the analysis of the County Manager was very
interesting which was basically when then need arises, when the market
arises, then they would have a vision for what this could and should
be as opposed of doing it in a haphazard manner, which is the way they
have done it in the past. They aren't looking at developing right
now.
Attorney Storch commented on the advantages of having a single
landowner, working together and having flexible planning.
Attorney Storch mentioned Restoration starting differently than it
ended up. What ended up was after a lot of input, a lot of good
planning and a lot of good thoughts. They have taken what has been
done with Restoration and tried to do better.
Attorney Storch informed Council that Brevard County had already
looked at the plan and they had unanimous approval of the plan from
the Planning Board and the Commission, who are very excited about
this. They saw this as solving problems for years to come. He
further spoke about preserving corridors now for the future so they
will be ready to be used as part of their planning process.
Attorney Storch commented on one corridor being from SA up to SR 442.
Another corridor would connect SR 442 to May town Road. They would
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probably be required to have a new interchange at May town Road and I-
95 which he felt would help as far as some of the City's concerns
regarding north/south accesses and hurricane accesses. He further
commented on May town Road needing to be rebuilt due to being too low
and flooding. He also commented on there probably being a change from
what the traffic engineers are telling him to the Maytown/SR415
intersection because right now it is a nightmare.
Attorney Storch then pointed out some of the other features of the
project.
Councilwoman Rhodes asked Attorney Storch how they saw this getting
past DCA. She mentioned the problems they are having with
Restoration. Attorney Storch explained DCA obviously had a different
take on things since Secretary pellam has gone in. Secretary pellam
suggested they do this as a Comp Plan amendment as opposed to Rural
Land Stewardship because the area is too urban for Rural Land
Stewardship. How they get past them? They do everything the right
way and hopefully they have tried to do that in this case. So far
every board they have been before has voted unanimously in favor of
this vision.
Councilwoman Rhodes asked who would be providing the 2,287 units with
water. Attorney Storch spoke of it being important that they cause no
impact to Edgewater other than positive. They have suggested they
needed to supply Edgewater that water by providing additional raw
water to the City and the City could supply the finished water. They
have the water resources to do that so he felt that was possible.
Councilwoman Rhodes felt none of them had the water resources and they
all had the same water resources. They were all taking it from the
same place. 2,200 more units and the people that go with them. She
wasn't necessarily against this; she was just trying to understand how
they are going to give the City water that they can't get anyway.
Attorney Storch explained he asked the question if they divide this up
into ranchettes how much water would be used. He spoke of typically
having individual wells and individual sewers with ranchettes. He
spoke of the irrigation with ranchettes being enormous. For the
entire Farmton project they estimated they would need about 32 million
gallons per water per day. If they do this the right way and cluster
and reduce the size of lawns, if they require a stringent water
conservation element, if they require that every home or business is
supplied by City or a central water source, and have reclaimed water.
All those things are absolute sustainability they are looking at
potentially 6.3 million gallons per day if they had the potential
29,000 units they could have over time. He spoke of there being a
number of things they can do to make this the most sustainable area
they could imagine.
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Councilwoman Rhodes expressed concern with this property not being
annexed into the City and the City not getting the tax dollars to help
out but they get the impact from the people. Attorney Storch
elaborated on her concerns. He felt annexing a portion of the
property would be appropriate due to its proximity to Edgewater and
the services they would be receiving from Edgewater.
Councilman Cooper expressed concern with water issues and sprawl
issues. He asked how they would deal with the flow of water through
the green area that is being clogged up by the development that has
happened with Venetian Bay and Restoration going to be west of it.
Attorney Storch explained where the water was coming from and the
issues they are looking at with a hydrologist. He spoke of an
additional considerable water source the hydrologist has found that
would help Volusia County enormously that almost parallels the St.
Johns River.
Councilman Cooper commented on pushing the reservoir concept. If they
follow their eco plan and utilize the land to be more nature friendly
with pockets of residential and industry he agreed this was the proper
use of the land. He felt if they were to give them a reservoir of
comparable size they solve the water problem for Volusia County. They
also bring tremendous job opportunities to the local area. He spoke
of things such as fish hatcheries and utility for water for hydrogen
fuel off the reservoir. He asked Attorney Storch if this was in the
plan anywhere. Attorney Storch informed him it was. One of the
concepts has been the creation of the 10,000 acre reservoir which
would have 3.6 billion gallons of water allowed for it. They could
then store the water that would be flushed out anyway during storm
phases. He spoke of this helping with the Consumptive Use Permit
issues they are seeing and St. Johns permitting issues.
There was a brief discussion regarding having a deeper reservoir for
multiple uses as boating, recreation, wetland preservation and
enhancement. St. Johns is agreeable to the concepts.
Councilwoman Rogers expressed concern with the traffic. She mentioned
Attorney Storch commenting on May town Road needing to be rebuilt and
the road tying SR 442 to May town Road. Since there is going to be a
large amount of time to span between now and when they are going to
start doing this and because the Miami property owners want to be a
good neighbor is perhaps the suggestion that they do these roads
before the developments even begin. She is going to make it a driving
force that they have the roads complete before any of the developments
occur. Attorney Storch commented on this being addressed with the
Development of Regional Impact. They will be setting aside the
corridors now.
Councilwoman Rogers commented on looking at the Smart Growth
principles. She expressed concern with possibly annexing the north
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portion into the City of Edgewater and that would be residential but
yet they are talking about the commercial to be more down toward u.s.
#1 and May town Road. Attorney Storch explained the Gateway was really
a mixed use. They have 820,000 square feet of, non-commercial. They
have a total of around 800 acres in the brown areas. The chance of
having very much residential was probably pretty slim. He felt they
were looking at mostly commercial/industrial in those areas. Most of
the interest from anyone has been for commercial or industrial, mostly
industrial. They would have to extend SR 442. Councilwoman Rogers
felt that was something that needed to be done.
There was a discussion regarding the Gobler property, consisting of 10
or 20 acres that is not owned by the Miami corporation and the
enclaves they have not been able to be purchased over the years.
There was then a discussion regarding the upfront infrastructure costs
being enormous and before they can build in these areas they will have
to build the roads.
Councilman Cooper assumed they would have all underground utilities.
Attorney Storch informed him they were talking about absolute maximum
environmental standards for water, energy, transportation, etc.
Mayor Thomas asked for citizens comments. There were none at this
time.
Attorney Storch pointed out even in the sustainable development areas
at least 50% of that land would also be preserved because they would
all be clustered even within those areas. When they are done with
this 75% of the land, over 44,000 acres would be preserved for free.
Staff estimates in Volusia County that $600 million to $1.1 billion of
land would be set aside for public preservation, which was twice as
much as Florida Forever right now.
Mayor Thomas expressed his appreciation to Attorney Storch for his
presentation and Ms. Going, the Second Vice President of the Miami
Corporation for coming all the way from Chicago and attending the
meeting.
ADJOURNMENT
There being no further business to discuss, the workshop adjourned at
5:50 p.m.
Minutes submitted by:
Lisa Bloomer
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