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06-26-2006 - Workshop CITY COUNCIL OF EDGEWATER WORKSHOP JUNE 26, 2006 6:30 P.M. COMMUNITY CENTER MINUTES CALL TO ORDER Mayor Thomas called the Workshop to order at 6:30 p.m. in the Community Center. ROLL CALL Mayor Michael Thomas Councilwoman Debra Rogers Councilman Dennis Vincenzi Councilwoman Harriet Rhodes Councilwoman Judith Lichter Interim City Manager Jon Williams Assistant City Attorney Nicholas Palmer City Clerk Susan Wadsworth Deputy City Clerk Lisa Bloomer Present Present Present Excused Present Present Excused Excused Present SILENT INVOCATION, PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE There was a silent invocation and pledge of allegiance to the Flag. MEETING PURPOSE The purpose of the Workshop was to discuss Hammock Creek. Ted Brown, Attorney, Baker & Hostetler, 230 Adams Drive, Maitland, thanked the Council for allowing them to come this evening. There has been a lot of chatter about the potential of Hammock Creek. They have had the occasion to meet with several of the City's counselors and staff, which they appreciated. This represents the first time they have had an opportunity to make a formal presentation to the City that they own this land in. They are excited about that as a kickoff for this project. He outlined for Council what they would see the goal of this meeting to be. It is one to introduce the consultant team, owners and to the emerging or beginning vision for the project. He chose those words very carefully because they really do mean Page 1 of 1 Council Workshop June 26, 2006 that. One of the things that make these processes successful is the opportunity to have meaningful dialogue with the elected officials but also to have meaningful input from the residents of Edgewater and New Smyrna. Without that input, it will not be as good a project as it can be. Their goal from the beginning is to seek the thoughts, ideas, visions, and dreams of what they think this should be in the City. They have a blank canvass in many respects. There are over 5,600 acres of land in the open service area, from the point of view of the owner desirous of doing something with it that will add to the City now and in the future. He felt it was extremely important to recognize that whatever they agree to do today or tomorrow or about a year and a half that it will take to move this process forward, that is when it would start and that doesn't end it. The planning for this project as they personally envision it, envisions something in the vicinity of 15 to 20 years to build it out. So there are many opportunities in future to go back and reassess whatever decisions are made and see what is working and what is noti fine tune and adjust to make things work better for the City. He wanted to make sure the Council understands they believe in a process of total transparence. They do not have all the answers. Sometimes the best ideas come from the most unlikely places. They will be looking for those. That is one reason they have been anxious to meet with each of them individually to get their thoughts and ideas. Mr. Brown then introduced the members of the consultant team. Brian Canin and Ron Manley with Canin & Associates. Canin & Associates is a landscape architecture and planning firm. They have a high level of expertise and understanding of where things are as they look around the country in terms of the best practices for land development. Jon Florio is with McIntosh & Associates Engineer. They will be responsible for the infrastructure design and streets and water and sewer. He has worked with that firm on multiple occasions and they are very responsive. Chris Walsh is with Kimly Horn who also has some capacities that are similar to McIntosh & Associates. They will assist with the traffic issues. Some of the engineering firms are here as a part of that team. Mike Dennis is with Reed, Love & Dennis in Winter Park. Mike is one of about a half a dozen of what he would call the best environmental planners in the State of Florida. He has been associated with a long list of projects. Stan Giber is with Fishkind & Associates, which is an economics Page 2 of2 Council Workshop June 26,2006 analysis firm. They provide a lot of the data and research that goes into the application for development approval. Don Meares who is 50% of the ownership team was here. His partner, David Guy resides in Charlotte, North Carolina. He has known Don & David for 20 some years. They had a similar affiliation with another development company. Between the two of them they have been in the development business for almost 60 years plus. They have developed projects allover the southeastern United States. The City is fortunate that with these two men they have two people coming to the City who have a strong commitment. They are not only listening to what the Council has to say but doing their utmost to make sure at the end of the day they will have a project they can salute with enthusiasm and know they did the right thing for Edgewater. They have a world of experience. He assured the Council they would make every effort to never cut a corner where it doesn't need to be cut. He defined for Council, in a global sense, this project. The City now has 5,500 acres plus or minus that is a blank canvas in many respects. As a blank canvas the site comes with some restraints and opportunities, a lot of those are driven by the environment and ecology. The question they asked theirselves is what do they do with this land? There are a lot of options. This land is in no small measure the future of the City. How they plan this collectively and how they decide what to do with it collectively will define the City for a long time. It is bounded on the north by New Smyrna Beach and on the south by the lands owned by the Miami Corporation. They mayor may not some day be part of the City, or it may remain unincorporated or it may build a new City at some point. This represents a significant land investment that the City has. If he could point out the biggest failure we all make when we have these types of opportunities is the failure to embrace them and recognize them for what they are. It is an opportunity to do something significant in our lifetime that will change in a positive way. He suspected given the tenure of this project that many of them in the room won't be working on it by the time it finishes. There will be new people. Some of the same companies perhaps but different people just simply by the longevity it takes to do this type of undertaking. That is one of the reasons it is important to be thoughtful and deliberative about it and take all of the ideas of people into account. He quoted Will Rogers as saying "Even if you are on the right track you will get run over if you just sit there.n The things that are happening in the State of Florida in terms of the Page 3 of3 Council Workshop June 26, 2006 number of people that have desired to live in this paradise, require them to be proactive and think outside the box and go about this process in a way that they know at the end of the day they will have given it their best effort to do what is in the best interest of the citizens of Edgewater. They come tonight with new beginnings and new opportunities driven first by a strategy that is going to be responsible first and foremost with the ecology where this particular development sits. The environment is the single largest driver of what it is they have to work within and without. They come recognizing it is housing that is the major economic driver and to develop a project that has housing in it that is important as they see it to be responsive to ignitions that drive that in the market place but beyond that to recognize there are diverse housing needs in this community and across the State of Florida. As they start to think about this project, they will have housing that is available for those in the affordable or work force type housing. There will be housing for first time homebuyers. Housing for those who would seek to move up to a better home from an older home. Housing for families and housing for retirees. All types of housing will be addressed in a project of this size. Commercial growth is an essential part of the dynamics of any community that is beginning to feel the pressure of how to grow, where to grow and when to grow. Commercial growth is part of what they would be planning for in this community. They would be doing it in a proportionate sense. In a way that would service the housing needs of the people who will live in that part of Edgewater but also be sensitive to the needs of the people that already live in Edgewater and may seek commercial opportunities on other side of 1-95. Schools are an important attribute of what this project is about. They have already had conversations with Sara Lee Morrissey and her staff of the Volusia County School Board to discuss not only the quantity and quality of the schools to be built but their locations within the larger community of what this would be about. Transportation is an important attribute of this developmentj where the roads go and how those roads connect with other roads inside and outside of the City. As they acquired this land, they acquired it with a mandate from the County that Williamson Road and Airport Road traverse this project at some location and connect from the north to the south. That has been allowed for and planned for. Some of the alignments are already beginning to change from input they have received from the Regional Planning Page 4 of 4 Council Workshop June 26,2006 Council, from Transportation Planners and the like. Nothing they will see tonight is the final answer. It is the beginning of a discussion, a discussion they will have for a long period of time. After Mike & Brian complete their remarks he informed Council he would come back to the podium to talk with the Council about the process itself and how many hearings there are likely to be and what he sees the relationship to be between Edgewater and New Smyrna as they think about their relationship to this project. He will also give them some sense of how all this process works collectively. He then introduced Mike Dennis. Mike Dennis, Environmental Consultant, President and Senior Scientist of Freelove, Dennis & Associates, 3067 Alatka Court, Longwood, thanked the Council, staff and public for the opportunity to speak to them this evening. He wanted to go over what they have learned about the property. He welcomed information and knowledge the staff or public may have about the property. They are in the process of gathering information. They have gathered a lot of information. They have been working on the site for over a year. They think they are beginning to understand it somewhat. They hope to learn everything they can about it and use that to the best advantage in coming up with the best environmental design and project they can for that piece of property. He showed a photo of the location of property. He explained the green areas are predominantly pine trees and planted forest. The gray areas are predominantly cypress strands, some marshes. Some of the other green areas are bayheads. The wetlands systems generally run parallel to the coastline in a north south orientation. You have the headwater swamps of Spruce Creek. There are four drainage basins that historically came off of this property. The site has been used most recently as timberland. This site has decades of history with planted pine. Most of the planted pine is bedded. If it was possible to bed and plant pines through it, it was done. A lot of the area is like that. The property has been on a hunting lease for over thirty years. It's an area that if you go out there in the dry season it is dry. In the late summer or early fall most places you go you have a chance of getting your feet wet. This site has been altered by a number of north/south and east/west drainage canals, smaller ditches, and fire lines. He pointed out where the recent fires have burned the property. From an ecological standpoint it is in great need of a fire. It Page 5 of5 Council Workshop June 26,2006 would improve the habitat values if it were managed with fire and it would also reduce the risk of having fires that cause the interstate to have to be shut down. He then commented on the various land use types on property. They have gathered existing databases they could find that covered the site such as St. Johns, volusia County, and the State of Florida. They are fortunate to have working with them a couple of their scientists Randy Counts. Randy has put together an initial analysis of the wildlife on the site. There are some gopher tortoises that are mainly along roads. They have observed black bear sitings along the edge of the Spruce Creek Swamp. They know there are some game species as well as an active eagles nest on the site. It was active this past year based on Game Commission records. They are fortunate to have Randy and his expertise. Tom Logan headed up the endangered species program for the Game Commission back fourteen or fifteen years. They have a good team working on that. They came up with an initial approach to provide information to Don and Brian and to the team about how to approach the use of this property. They have come up with an approach that says let's don't take the ring around the wetlands approach, let's take a broader landscape approach. Let's look at the wetlands and the uplands and where they occur on the site. Let's not only focus on the 6200 acres but let's see how property fits into the overall systems of the County and this part of Florida. They have done that analysis. They have looked at how this property fits into a systems of properties north and south and wildlife and wildlife utilization. That is the approach they have taken. They are proposing as the approach and the design on this to look at it as a landscape restoration approach. They are proposing to take the area along Spruce Creek Swamp and a large upland area adjacent to it and set it aside as one major landscape feature and stay out of that. Let's look at the central area that has a lot of wetlands and work on the wetlands and uplands in there and set that aside. Let's look for other areas so they come up with large areas. He went to Tom & Randy and asked them to take it and recognize they are going to put people on it somewhere. Assuming that is the case where would you put the people and where would you have the critters. They worked through it and came up with some pretty broad areas and identified those. They went to the next step and said it's not enough just to preserve those. They need to restore what those areas were like historically. Before it was all planted in planted pine. He then showed photos of Page6of6 Council Workshop June 26, 2006 the current conditions. They believe in the planted pine areas there is an opportunity to selectively remove those pines, cut them back and create pine flatwoods communities and restore those. If they do that there is an opportunity to even bring back species that don't occur there now in the long term. They need to be thinking fifty years. A short-term view on a project of this size is not the best way to look at it. He presented another example with Hypericum Prairie. Again it has been planted through with pines, somewhat drained. They believe there is an opportunity to again remove the pines, restore the natural landscape features and come up with restored prairie habitat. There are some cypress and hardwood swamps there. He spoke of these being wetter for a longer period of time and having a longer hydroperiod. That makes them more valuable for more species of wildlife. They believe they can take some of swamps that are more drained than they should be and work to fill in some ditches and make them more functional. They have done this on other projects. They have done this on quite a few projects around the State. They have taken an initial approach to say let's take broad areas. They are talking about ultimately at the end of the day a plan that would preserve sixty percent of the site of wetlands and uplands in the right proximity. Restore those. Restore the hydroperiods to the wetlands. Take forestry practices out of it and then come up with a master plan so they would not only be restored they would be managed in perpetuity. It is not enough to say here's what we are going to do if you don't have a management plan to carry it through over time. They also looked at the wildlife linkages, both on and offsite. In working with Brian on concepts about the plan any roads that connect these areas, they are talking about not putting in box culvert but major flowers. This has not been done. On the field trip with the Regional Planning Council they went over that with the Game Commission folks and they said it would be great. They would build that in up front. If they design that and build those in upfront they don't have to retrofit later. They would work with a Surface Water Management Plan and make sure they put it in so it doesn't make wetlands too wet or too dry and if that fits in with the overall design of the system. This has been done on some projects in North Carolina and South Carolina. It has come up with an educational program and a nature oriented focus to have the nature be the amenity. That would be the amenity for this project. Right now there is a concept of having a six or ten mile trail that would go through the Page7of7 Council Workshop June 26, 2006 whole property where you would never cross a road because of the overpasses. That is the overall concept. This is their vision for it. There is a clustering of where people would be put into this landscape and this mosaic. That falls under the preview of Brian and he would talk to Council about the vision and concept for that. He looks forward to working with the City and learning more about the property. Brian Canin, President, Canin & Associates, 500 Delaney Avenue, Orlando, stated it is a great pleasure to be here tonight and to be part of kicking off this project, which they are very excited about. As Ted indicated earlier, they are very early in the planning business, although they have filed a pre-app. This is part of a very long and involved process, the development of regional impact process. It is several tracts. They are going through that program with the State of Florida and the Central Florida Regional Planning Council and the adjoining governments. What excites them is building a plan that will actually one day be on the ground and working with Edgewater and New Smyrna to make it happen. They are all very excited and proud. He believes this will be a great project. In the thirty years he has been doing this he has never had quite the opportunity that is being presented today to build an environmental aspect into this that is really cutting edge, not just putting aside pieces of land and preserving them but restoring them and making them user friendly for everybody, animals and people. They are very interested in regionalism. They have found over the years that if they don't do it in the regional context they really miss something. That is being picked up in Central Florida to their credit. He commented on the large environmental systems that are part of the site. They are recognizing them early on and building them into the long- term program. Apart from the regional system environmentally, they want to talk about transportation. Transportation is one of biggest challenges in Florida with all the growth we have. They are looking regionally about creating some roads that serve the whole area. The same will be the consideration for the stormwater and everything else. He commented on plans done before the property was purchased. People have been trying at various times to deal with the open space systems. They have learned from those. He commented on the major environmental system and recognizing the need to keep that intact and try to formulate some others. He commented on an exercise in the Page 8 0[8 Council Workshop June 26,2006 beginning to get some sort of scale about how big a neighborhood should be, how they go together and what might be in the center of a neighborhood. Each one of those plans has begun to explore how this stuff might go together and be where the parts are better than the whole. He spoke of beginning to see in the plan the emergence of a very clear cut idea of this major corridor down the middle and one on edge and that they are trying to preserve some islands of environmental areas. He spoke of having a road go along the western edge of the property to separate the people from the environment a little more. They are starting to see a very clear emergence of a strong environmental system down the middle and one down the west side. This is where they are beginning to evolve on the site planning. He commented on it being important to understand scale. Each circle represents from the edge to center about a five-minute walk for a person walking at normal speed for about a ~ mile. He feels this is a good, workable, prototypical neighborhood where people are comfortable being able to reach into a little park in the middle, or a church, or a daycare center. Where the main center is that would be a ten-minute walk. The red line is the eight to ten mile recreation trail. If you ride a bicycle you could be on that and never cross a major road. That is a very important feature they are trying to build into the project. Their drawings were very abstract and very preliminary. They are going to change many times. The core principles he showed in the form of pictures are a lot more to understand. This begins to explore some of the visions for this community that they feel are very important. The overall vision is they want to build a really great community. They see water as a very important signature feature. They will probably have some waterways that are connected. They will have waterways that serve a recreational purpose. He showed a project they designed that has a community waterway. It starts at a wonderful village center and it goes for about a mile and a half. This is the type of environment they want to create on the site in certain places. They typically don't put the water in the backyard. The water systems and park systems may be very accessible. There will be an important recreation trail. Health and wellness is very much a part of the entire program of attracting people and making them comfortable and excited about this community. They are going to draw inspiration on some of the old parks in Florida, which typically were developed around springs and seeing some of the recreational facilities along those Page 9 0[9 Council Workshop June 26, 2006 lines. Education is going to be hugely important. There are going to be schools throughout community in various locations. An important idea is designing the streets so they are very attractive so the street itself is an amenity. It's a place people will enjoy walking and meeting their neighbors. The architecture relating to the street is very well designed. That will be throughout the entire community and will be documented very carefully with a lot of design guidelines. Active and passive recreation for all ages will be built into the entire community. Health and wellness is a big opportunity. He commented on a project they did in Polk County that was very well received and beautifully designed. They would like to take anyone down there that wants to see it and visit. He then commented on some very secluded, passive more laid back recreation areas where they could have a picnic or an outdoor event. Taking advantage of those areas that Mike described earlier and creating opportunities for people to visit and then explore those areas in a safe way. There is going to be a very broad range of residential offerings, a broad range of prices, a broad range of designs, family groups, age groups, workforce housing, affordable housing, and high-end housing, for singles or families. He showed some models they will explore in terms of the design. The Town Center will probably be in the middle of the site and will be designed to be very pedestrian friendly and a great place to visit and meet your neighbors. That will be an important feature of the Town Center as a park. They designed the Town Center so it functions in that way for parades so it has to be at least a ~ mile long. He commented on the type of community events and activities they would anticipate occurring in that location. He then commented on the Village Center. This manmade lake connects to the waterway. He pointed out a street that was designed to be very welcoming and pedestrian friendly with a lot of activities. He then commented on the Village Center and Village Center Park. A great deal of open space and manicured parks where various formal and informal activities can occur. He spoke of people with small children enjoying the neighborhood parks without traveling too far. He then went over the sketch plan. Mr. Brown walked the Council through what is a fairly long and involved process. He feels it will highlight for Council the multiple opportunities on a formal basis that they will have the ability to input this process aside from informal workshops or other sessions they might aspire to Page 10 of 10 Council Workshop June 26,2006 have as this process evolves. This is a development of regional impact regulated by Florida Law and it requires them to file an application for development approval. As a predecessor or precursor to that they are required to have a pre-application conference, which the Regional Planning Council undertakes to organize. They did that a few weeks ago at the Sugar Mill Golf Club. It was well attended with 65 - 70 people there from allover Volusia County and various agencies of local and state government that have input into this process. They will file the application for development approval shortly after Labor Day. Between now and then they have two more work sessions scheduled. August 7th is designed to be a citizen input meeting in which they will be inviting the citizens of Edgewater and New Smyrna to Daytona Beach College for the purpose of presenting them even further refinements than what they had this evening and seeking their input on any thoughts or ideas they might have. The second workshop is a joint workshop between Edgewater and New Smyrna Beach on August 24th. That workshop meeting is designed to afford both municipalities an opportunity to see where the common issues and differences are between the cities. He has had the occasion to meet with representatives of New Smyrna and Edgewater. One of the things he has continually emphasized is that you have somewhat different approaches to development and different regulatory overlays to affect development. Of this large tract of land of which about 1300 acres resides in New Smyrna Beach is at least in their judgment needs to be planned holistically without real type reference to where the municipal boundary is so that at the end of day it flows relatively seamlessly between both municipalities. They will want to surface some of those issues with Edgewater and New Smyrna. A gentleman in the audience confirmed the workshop for the citizens would be held on August 9th. They will want to have that discussion with the Council on the 24th and out of that data they will make some final refinements to the planning and submit the application for development approval. It is important to recognize that is a very early and preliminary step. It then is transmitted from the East Central Florida Regional Planning District to all the common and State agencies. They will have a period of time in which to make comments. Those comments come back in the form of a sufficiency report. Typically they will be found insufficient if experience is any guideline. They will get that information given back to them and they will file additional information back to the Regional Planning Page 11 of 11 Council Workshop June 26,2006 Council, which would be distributed to all agencies. Through the give and take process ultimately they get to a place where it is determined to be sufficient and at that point they begin the process of asking City to schedule for an adoption public hearing. Before that occurs, the Regional Planning Council will have submitted to the City its recommendations for special conditions or other issues it wants to see incorporated into the development order. The municipality has the choice of accepting those, rejecting those or modifying those. The Regional Planning Council is a recommending body. It has no binding authority to tell you to turn left or turn right. The information that will be provided to the City is important. They will be working closely with them to make certain the recommendations they do make are things that they are in agreement with and the City is in agreement with. Eventually a second part of this tract will be coming on line. In order for this development order to be approved they must have a Comprehensive Plan mechanism that will allow it to fit. To that extent and as was contemplated in the annexation report of bringing this land into the City, they will be presenting to the City in September a proposal for a new land use category in the City's Comprehensive Plan. One of the reasons they are looking to go in that direction is because the City has never had a project of this size and complexity. The existing Comprehensive Plan categories the City has while they could probably shoehorn some things into it, it doesn't give the City the comfort that what they say they will do they will do. They want to work with the City to create something called New Community Development that will begin to pin down at the very front end of process the constraints within which the City would want them to work as they move through this process. They want to work with Council and staff in helping to draft that. They will be presenting to staff a proposed draft of New Community Development. Once that is filed with the City and once they have gotten some comfort with it, it will come through the Planning & Zoning Board, and will finally work its way to Council to be approved. Once it is approved by the Council, in Volusia County, that is not the end. In Volusia County they still have a Volusia County Growth Management Commission that has to approve any change to the Comprehensive Plan before it is approved any place else. At the same time the Department of Community Affairs and the State of Florida is also reviewing change. All of these groups must come together and agree on language to make it happen. It is important to recognize whatever they Page 12 of 12 Council Workshop June 26, 2006 are doing in Edgewater they are also doing in New Smyrna Beach. The last one of these he participated in that was in two municipalities resulted in an eighteen-month period and about thirty-five public hearings. No one will be able to complain at the end of that process that they haven't had an opportunity to be heard. There will be a huge opportunity for a lot of input from a lot of people over a long period of time. At the end of that process, there will be the process of coming back to talk about the zoning classification. Once they have done the application for a development agreement through a development order, they have done a Comprehensive plan Amendment to have it fit within the context of how the Comprehensive Plan works, they now have to adopt some zoning that is consistent with all of those things as well. They will be working with the City on those processes and those require a series of public hearings. They believe all of this can be done in about 16 to 18 months with a reasonable amount of diligence and without straining the system too greatly. He thinks the City has a group of people, excluding himself, that have a lot of experience in this arena. He thinks they are hopeful and remain optimistic that they will earn the Council's trust and support as they go through this. It has officially kicked off in the sense that they have had a pre-application conference with the Regional Planning Council and their support group. They will officially make application to the City for the development approval sometime in the early part of September. Councilwoman Lichter asked about calling someone from the firm if they have questions. Mayor Thomas stated he would like to talk more in depth. He asked Interim City Manager Williams how long the budget hearing would last. Interim City Manager Williams informed him it was up to the Council. Mayor Thomas asked the developer to hang around for another thirty minutes. He felt they could get the questions in by then. The meeting recessed at 7:25 p.m. and reconvened at 7:35 p.m. Mayor Thomas asked for questions from the Council. Councilwoman Lichter commented on swimming facilities and feeling this could tremendously impact what beach we don't Page 13of13 Council Workshop June 26, 2006 have or what beach New Smyrna does have and they mentioned that there would be indoor/outdoor type of swimming activities in the historic use such as DeLeon Springs. She asked about archaeology because she really took the word mountain or mound to mean a rise in the ground but that isn't what he meant. He meant the middle of something going north, south, east and west. They have hired an archaeology firm to look into that. This whole area just abounds with that type of thing. It might be interesting to find out what years and what types of tribes. She feels it is gigantic and she can't quite think that way now. She feels the most positive thing she has seen is the refurnishing of the land, the replenishing of what mistakes have taken place in the past. She knows it can work out with New Smyrna. Up north her community abutted another community that had common houses divided in shared land and it worked out fine. It can be absolutely planned. As we go along, at her age she may no doubt not see the end of this project but she certainly wanted to be part of the initiation of it. Councilman Vincenzi stated they wanted ideas of what the Council is looking for. He feels the plan put out is nice in a preliminary sense. He feels the developer should think about along with the beautiful community they are going to be developing, they will also be requiring and draining a lot of resources. Not just natural resources but city resources. Impact fees only go so far. They don't address long-range type of concerns. He didn't have any immediate questions right now. He would like the developer to address long-term concerns. Mr. Brown stated he read with interest the newspaper article relative to our neighbors to the south. He knows nothing about their project except what he can read. He encouraged the Council as they look at what is happening to Edgewater west of 1-95 to look holistically at the planning and not get too settled on what needs to go in the Mercedes development as opposed to what might be more suitable for this development in the way of municipal infrastructure. The larger piece of real estate is this project. It is larger by many multiples. That is not to say what the City is planning for there isn't appropriate. He encouraged the Council, as well as encouraging themselves, to step back from that and look at the larger landscape and see what might fit. Council will not find them unresponsive to trying their best to meet the City's needs. Ultimately Page 14 of 14 Council Workshop June 26,2006 they will need guidance from the Council as to what is on their minds with some degree of specificity so they can respond. Councilman Vincenzi stated he hopes they are as responsive as they say they will be. Mr. Brown felt confident they would. Councilwoman Rogers stated she had a few things. They have two different types of engineers that she was impressed they have on board. One is the traffic engineer, which she feels is the most important. She commented on the two roads that are going to be north and south on the west side of 1-95, coming to SR 442 and these being Airport Road and Williamson Boulevard. She spoke of their thought being if someone were going to the beach, they would go north to New Smyrna Beach either on 1-95 or SR44. She expressed concern with having a lot of impact and traffic issues on the east side of SR 442 and the impact on u.S. #1. She hoped the engineer would see that we would have an impact there and help us because we need to have a north-south road on the east side of 1-95. She feels everyone is going to be affected and u. S. #1 won't be able to handle the traffic. The other engineer she was impressed they had on Board with Fishkind regarding the economic. She feels this is very important. She expressed concern with the economics in this whole area. We do not have but a couple of businesses in this area that employ people, the City of Edgewater and Boston Whaler, which she has concerns about the stability and longevity of that business. She hopes that with having the economical people on board, they can work with the City and the City's Economic Development Board and help to bring some businesses to this area rather than bring in a bunch of people and not have the businesses. She feels bigger businesses will make people want to come here and move here. She mentioned a lot of south Orlando being developed because of Martin Marietta's growth and Lockheed. She spoke of the various companies that came into the area because of Martin Marietta. She commented on the mention made regarding the restoration of the land. She hoped in the plans they will bring to Council in the future they will define what they will do to restore and maintain those areas because wetlands were destroyed, etc. Mr. Brown commented on having a plan that is unique. He has been doing this for a long time. They have asked Mike to develop a mitigation and management plan. This plan is designed to be and augment whatever permits they might have to achieve some through the Water Management, Volusia Page 15of15 Council Workshop June 26, 2006 County, and the Army Corp of Engineers. The thing they are going to do or seek to do that he feels the City should be excited about is to incorporate this management plan into the development order so the City and the successors at the dais have the ability to make certain that it is enforced and carried out in their own name in the future and not have to rely on the Water Management District or the Army Corp of Engineers to do that. He stated once they have permitted a project and found it implemented and move through the review of the success criteria it is off their radar screen but it isn't off the City's. It is important to think about this as the City's open space and the City's passive park system with trails and the like, the City of Edgewater will have more open space than any other city of its size in the United States. The developed acreage within the portion of the land that represents the City's community will be somewhere in the vicinity of 1,400 to 1,500 of acres out of the five thousand and some. Close to 4,000 acres of open space, restored ecology if you will, made accessible through trails that can be utilized by people. They will present as a part of this plan not only a management plan to be incorporated into the development order but a management structure that assures it can be funded into the future as well. Councilwoman Rogers asked if there are any springs on this property. Mr. Brown informed her not that they are aware of. Councilwoman Rogers felt it would be nice to have another DeLeon Springs. Interim City Manager Williams informed Council on June 9th there was a charrett that was held and staff expressed some concerns. He was interested in knowing a timeline for addressing concerns back to the City. Some of those concerns they expressed were Council and community involvement, which he felt was demonstrated with what their proposed meetings are to get additional involvement from the community. They had some concerns regarding the environmental impacts. They wanted to make the team apprised to the proposed changes to the Land Development Code and how they would potentially affect this development. They believe there is a drainage basin study that needs to be done on the property with regards to stormwater. They have requested a fiscal impact assessment model be addressed specifically as it relates to the City. Obviously concurrency with services is a big issue and something that they need to address that with the Page 16 of 16 Council Workshop June 26, 2006 development as well. When he read through the pre- application conference document, about half of the proposed single-family residential units are age restricted. One of the things he felt the document lacked was planning for hospital/medical facilities. He has invited Bob Williams who is the President of Bert Fish Medical Center. He has given Mr. Williams his word that he would help champion calls and making some sort of representations within the community. He would like to give Mr. Williams the opportunity to address the development. Mr. Brown stated they appreciate him bringing him here. When they have their group session with the cities of Edgewater and New Smyrna Beach on August 9th, they will also announce that evening in place a website. The purpose of the website is to facilitate residents of both communities communicating with them information they hear. One of the things they find with these kinds of projects is the rumor mills outrun real information. One of the ways he has found it to be successful to eliminate that is to create a website that is publicized with the assurance they will respond within 72 hours. This gives Council the ability for him to stand in front of them to give them the number of hits to the website and what the questions were. He commented on people feeling connected to the project. It tends to facilitate their collective ability to come to a result that they can all achieve. They would welcome the opportunity to speak to the hospital folks about how to fit this into the community. Mayor Thomas commented on there being three major reasons why he ran for Council. One was the turmoil in the Police Department, one was the Snowden property or the Hammock Creek and one was the McCaskill property. He spoke of back in 1972 when he was hired as a wildlife officer for the Game Commission. He spoke of being very fortunate to meet people. Not only did he patrol it he got to hunt it. He stated he has been in every cypress farm, every palmetto patch and has walked every piece of this property. He spoke of the Spruce Creek Swamp being a very fragile piece of property. In the summer it is dry guaranteed. In September it is wet. He was very impressed with the team the developer put together. This shows him they want to do a good job. His job is to make sure the impact on citizens of Edgewater now and the citizens of Edgewater in the future that this project is done correctly. He was impressed with their channelization. He expressed Page 17 of 17 Council Workshop June 26, 2006 concerned regarding where they are going to get all of the dirt to build the roads and build houses where they aren't going to be in the water. A gentleman in the audience informed him they would be getting the dirt from the site lakes. Mayor Thomas commented on manmade lakes becoming stagnant if they don't have some type of flow. If they don't have something to eat the algae then they don't become pristine. He asked the developers if they have thought about that. He was informed yes. Mayor Thomas commented on there being different ways of doing this but he feels they have to have some kind of flow. He commented on the lakes in Florida Shores where they dug the shell out years ago. Over the years the bottom has deteriorated. He hopes it is in the developers plan to do something like that. Mayor Thomas stated one thing Edgewater needs is an Emergency Operations Center. We want a place to house key personnel during a hurricane or fire and then have them first back in the City to provide police or fire protection and protect the residents and the businesses. He feels the developer is in the perfect position out there to have something like this. If they build an Emergency Operations Center and they don't use it and it lays stagnate then it's not a good building. If you build a community center with reservations the City could use that in a time of need. He suggested the developer give this some thought. That way the facility could be used. The citizens could use the community center and the City could use it as an Emergency Operations Center in a time of need. Mayor Thomas then commented on the Spruce Creek Swamp. In the dry time this is a bad swamp. From the fires in 1980's they pushed dozer lines. Right now you could drive a vehicle down them. In the winter you have to take an airboat. He pointed out the Miami Corp property and stated when this was a wildlife management area they had about thirty-to-fifty bears and they were not allowed to have wildlife feeders. He mentioned someone else being allowed and having about thirty-to-fifty bears come on this property. He got into an argument with the wildlife officer that there is no way there could be 30 bears on 10,000 acres. They were transients. He pointed out where the bears live now. He pointed out a system that goes to the Crane Swamp system and then goes south and then back over to Spruce Creek, which goes to Cow Creek, which goes Page 18 of 18 Council Workshop June 26, 2006 to Deep Creek and back to the St. Johns River. He is showing the public he knows a little bit about the property. He spoke of getting Reflections to create a four-lane road. He then pointed out where Airport Road and Williamson Boulevard will come through. He then expressed concern with the developer paying millions of dollars and being able to have affordable housing. He wants to be able to trust them. He loves that piece of property and is sick over it being developed but he is not going to stick his head in the sand. He is going to help the developer do it right for the City. Mr. Brown commented on Mayor Thomas highlighting some issues they touched upon. They are continuing to learn and explore options that are available on this property as well. He is chairing the Statewide Task Force on affordable housing and they will be filing a report at the end of August or early September. He shared Mayor Thomas's view. It is a very serious problem, not only that we face here but that we face across State of Florida. Real Estate values have escalated much faster than our wage system is escalating. The gap between what people can qualify for, in particular now with higher interest rates edging up, it creates a problem, which is a significant challenge. They are committed to find within the framework of what they are doing here and delivering to the City a mix of housing product that reflects all levels of occupancy. The great thing about this country is when there is a need entrepreneurial capital figures out ways to solve it and he is finding there are people who have mastered the art of securing Federal and State funds to augment cash and other ways to develop a product and come online and particularly service those who are somewhere from 80% to 120% of the average median income of the area such as the firemen, school teachers and the core civic service providers. They are very committed to trying to make sure they can present that kind of a balanced portfolio to City. They are very sensitive to the issues the Council was raising about the property. They feel like they have a real opportunity to do something very special. Mayor Thomas apologized about the gopher tortoises. It is not gopher tortoise habitat. He admitted to turning the gopher tortoises loose out there. Mayor Thomas opened the meeting up for public comment. Page 19 of 19 Council Workshop June 26, 2006 Bob Williams, CEO, Bert Fish Medical Center, felt the presentation was impressive. He feels this is going to be a tremendous asset to our community. Bert Fish represents health care for southeast Volusia County. They are located in New Smyrna Beach but have a responsibility of providing healthcare in New Smyrna Beach, Edgewater and Oak Hill. Their Board of Commissioners has just finished looking at a strategic plan that will take them into the year 2010 or 2011. The basic crux of that plan is they follow the population for health care. They are located on Palmetto Street but that is where the main campus is. The City of Edgewater has worked with the district some time ago in acquiring some property across from Boston Whaler. They are looking at property west of New Smyrna. They are very interested in working with the City and with the developers on how best to fulfill the health care needs of this community. They want to be available and would be glad to meet one on one or in groups. Dave Ross, 2803 Needle Palm Drive, also felt this was impressive. He wanted to jump on Councilwoman Rogers' bandwagon with regard to transportation. He spoke of the cars that will be on SR44 & SR442. There is no way he is going to drive Williamson to go to Daytona Beach. He felt most of the people that would live here would either come in on SR442 or SR44. He stated SR 44 couldn't handle the traffic. He spoke of forgetting about driving through New Smyrna on the weekend. He feels SR 442 today is comfortable but he feels that is going to be short-lived. He asked how they get the State involved today. He feels it's in the developer's hands. They have to get some help now. There is nothing on the books for improving the roads down here on the State's agenda and the developers need to help us with that because SR 44 and SR 442 are going to be in serious trouble. Pat Card, 3019 Willow Oak Drive, stated he hoped everyone put this into perspective. It is big enough that the developer can do some things that other developers just can't do because of the scale of this development. Development is going to change our community no matter what we do. This development or the sprawl of 3,200-acre developments is our choice. How many developers are talking about restoring a natural habitat for uplands and wetlands? About hooking to the eastern black bear corridor so that two black bear populations in this part of Florida can be reunited. About putting twenty-foot high bridges Page 20 of 20 Council Workshop June 26, 2006 over wildlife habitat to make it a free access wildlife corridor. How many are making a real effort to mitigate wildfires where people live? This developer is talking all of this. He talked about it at his charrett and he talked about it when they walked the property. All this is possible because of the scale of project. What is the scale of the project from a purely financial perspective? This proposal is for 9,000 dwelling units with a probable average cost of $270,000. He figured this out to be around $2.5 billion. Boomers are coming and try as we might we can't stop them. Sixty percent of Edgewater citizens will still live east of 1-95. You can be sure the boomers that come here will bring their checkbooks with them. He feels the City should get a new City Hall and a new EEOC and City Hall should be east of 1-95 and a Senior Center and a historical museum on the river at Kennedy Park with $10 or $15 million at a minimum. That would be less than ~ of 1% of 2.5 billion dollars. If the City makes it too difficult for them to do a real development out there, by limiting development flexibility, all the City will get is thirty sprawling 200-acre developments and all the people anyway. Gina Holtz, 1798 Hideaway Lane, stated she came to the meeting with her mind made up that she hated this project. She would like to see the City hold the other developments that are in the works to this higher standard. She was very impressed. She would like to see responsible development. She would like to see less of the total annihilation of every living thing on the piece of ground. She expressed concerned about transportation and hurricane evacuation. North south routes of Airport and Williamson sound like a good idea but she feels people are still going to get on 1-95. She understands there is in the works some widening planned for that stretch of road. She hates to see that. She travels to Orlando three days a week and she has been dealing with construction on 1-4 and SR44 and now she will be dealing with 1-95. If this is coming she feels they need to find a way to speed it up. She had to evacuate with the Edgewater fires. She is real concerned about evacuation. She likes the transportation idea. She also feels hurricane evacuation is something to think about. Mayor Thomas closed the public comment. Mayor Thomas thanked the developers for their time. Page 21 0[21 Council Workshop June 26, 2006 There was a five-minute recess at this time. The meeting recessed at 8:10 p.m. and reconvened at 8:18 p.m. Interim City Manager Williams commented on having a slight technical difficulty and trying to burn a disk for the Powerpoint Presentation at that time. Once Finance Director Tanner was successful in burning a copy of the disk and the presentation he would bring it over to the Council. Interim City Manager Williams made a staff presentation by going through the attached Powerpoint Presentation. He informed Council they had gotten a copy of the pre preliminary budget that they distributed June 14th. As of today the document had changed and the document would continue to change up until the final two budget hearings scheduled to take place in August. The final format would be presented during the final two budget hearings in September, which they are accustom to seeing. The worksheets they had before them provided all the detail behind the numbers. Interim City Manager Williams informed Council he was looking for Council consensus for setting the millage rate. Interim City Manager Williams continued his presentation by going over the Methodology they use regarding the City's budget proceSSi the TRIM Summary and Timelinei Fund Budgeting and Fund Structurei Preliminary Taxable Value Analysisi Projected Revenuei General Fund Budget SummarYi Water & Sewer Budget SummarYi Refuse Budget Fund SummarYi Stormwater Budget SummarYi and Major Increases. Councilwoman Lichter stated she remembered that they were seriously looking with the last City Manager to look into one of the funds with the employees of how much the City was putting into it. Interim City Manager Williams thought she was referencing the General Employees Pension Fund. Councilwoman Lichter asked what happened. Interim City Manager Williams informed her they had engaged those services and they have had a round of talks and facts of finding up until this point and throughout those talks have discovered there is probably a difference of methodologies being used in calculating the annual required contribution. They haven't completed the evaluation process however they do know that the current actuary they have in place, Principal Mutual Financial Company, has changed some of Page 22 of 22 Council Workshop June 26,2006 their methods they use in projecting those annual required contributions and those numbers have come down. Councilwoman Lichter mentioned them seeming so high to a lot of people. Interim City Manager Williams stated last year they budgeted a little over $1 million and when it comes to budgeting, past performance is the best indicator of future performance. They were seeing these numbers steadily rising and double digit increases in terms of percentages each year so they had to be very conservative in their projections. That was the methodology that was used last year. He thought this year it would be down about a half a million dollars over last year and that was directly as a result of the different methodologies that are used in calculating the annual required contribution. Councilwoman Lichter commented on employees now putting in some money towards the dental, etc. Was that going to cut or was that because they increased or would that cut what the City has to pay. Interim City Manager Williams informed her they didn't have those numbers firmed up yet. They have just estimated a 5% increase at this point and the City has pretty much absorbed that 5% increase within these budgets. They are due to have a meeting next week to firm up things. This is a working document that would change weekly/daily until they get to the final budget hearing. Councilwoman Rogers stated she set up an appointment with Mr. Williams because she wanted to go line by line and go a lot more in depth than what they have received. She was not one to just look at a number. She has to know where it is coming from. She wants to see the specifics on the pension. Since she has moved to this City the Pension was always the main reason for the millage to increase. She wanted to see the specifics. What Mr. Williams was saying sounded good but last year she was told by the City Manager that the Pension Fund had recovered and at the very end when they were going through the budget hearings, that was one of the reasons that came up in why their millage rate became what it was. She wanted to understand that better. She questioned how long they have had Principal as the same Pension Management Group. Interim City Manager Williams informed her well over 20 years. Councilwoman Rogers stated something else she wanted to look at was some of the estimates. She didn't want to spin Page 23 of 23 Council Workshop June 26,2006 wheels but she went through what they had not knowing it was going to change so much. Her concern is that some of the 2007 proposed numbers based upon what Interim City Manager Williams said this budget was going to be created from, he said they would take the previous numbers and start from there and go forward as if what was there previously as an actual was all valid when circumstances change. Some of the items need to come out would be her feeling that it's not always the same. Councilwoman Rogers then expressed concern with the computer increase by 125% as well as the vehicles. Since she has been involved they haven't had anyone come to them from the various department and say they need vehicles but in the past when she would come to Council meetings she would see new police vehicles, new this, new that, just like they have a boat that's the Police Department. She couldn't count on one hand how many times she has seen the boat in the intracoastal. She is out there a lot and she doesn't see the boat out there. Before they go spending money they really need to know why and what they have currently. She was going to be spending a lot of time with Interim City Manager Williams. Interim City Manager Williams commented on the computer purchase fund. They are looking at adding to their computer system, what they have now as an interactive voice system for their utilities module and their building module. He spoke of it being an avenue for the residents that don't have a whole lot of faith in the web and they could access the same information. Councilwoman Rogers commented on some of the capital improvements for the computer were going to be software related and were not going to be tangible hardware. Interim City Manager Williams informed her that was correct. Councilwoman Rogers commented on going through a study in the past and Thomas Meely doing some software sales to the City and that was where the utility billing began. Interim City Manager Williams stated Thomas Meely worked for HTE and HTE is our current billing software and our provider for those services. They just went through a migration. Councilwoman Rogers commented on increasing the software ability. Interim City Manager Williams stated they have different modules they are looking at adding each year to make this an all-encompassing computer software system that Page 24 of 24 Council Workshop June 26,2006 will improve the communications internally and continue to provide those services. Councilwoman Rogers felt they needed to look at dollar wise to see if that is something that is really necessary. People can come in and pay their bill, they can automatically have their bill debited or they can go online. She thinks they have already gone above and beyond and perhaps the money that would be spent utilizing another software change, that kind of money could be put aside for a City Hall reserve. Interim City Manager Williams then addressed the vehicles. From a staff's perspective he was going to try to get Council to authorize setting the millage rate at 6.45 and keeping it at 6.45 due to the large increases in capital in terms of vehicles and so forth. The thought process and what they are currently evaluating the practicality within the departments right now is not looking at the effect of this budget. They are starting to focus now up to five years down the road. They are asking the departments to go back and describe those needs on a strategic perspective of what their desires were for any capital expenditure over $5,000. Then they will discount that back to today's dollars and look at that on a funding perspective over five years. They have to start thinking down the road and that is what his intentions are with the excess money. Councilman Vincenzi stated they have heard him complain about this format before. He tried to go through it. Got a third of the way through it and stopped. He needed to sit down with Interim City Manager Williams and Finance Director Tanner and go through department by department and break down expenses within those departments to figure out what they want to spend the money on. He didn't fully understand it right now. Maintaining the millage, Mr. Capria will disagree with that. This is the biggest jump they have had in tax revenue increase in a long time, 34.6%. Of course everybody can take that money and spend it but they need to be careful about what it is used for. He doesn't really know if keeping it at 6.45 is the best thing to do. He realized they could set it at 6.45 and lower it. He would lean more toward setting it at a lower rate now or agreeing to set it lower now and possibly even lowering it further. Depending on his plans, he wouldn't be opposed to keeping it at a lower rate. Page 25 of 25 Council Workshop June 26,2006 Interim City Manager Williams cautioned Council going into this budget process and setting that millage rate at anything other than 6.45. Once they have described that via that TRIM notice and they have communicated that back, they cannot raise that. If they get in a position where they have to raise that it can't be done without some fairly serious consequences. Councilman Vincenzi asked what a typical increase in tax revenue per year would be. He feels 34% is exceptional. Interim City Manager Williams stated when they look at it over the roll back rate right now, they are asking a difference of $3 per week, which is really not that significant. Councilwoman Rogers pointed out that was on a property that was $125,000 but they have properties here that are a lot more than that. Interim City Manager Williams informed her the average was about $71,000 or $72,000 in this city so they were talking probably a lot less than $3 per week. That is something they will be bringing to Council as those numbers are firmed up with the July 1st deadline and it is something they will address. He spoke of people paying more for basic cable service each month than what it costs in tax revenue to this City. Councilman Vincenzi stated that may be true but that is a personal choice to them. It's the responsibility of the City and Council and staff to be careful how taxpayer money is spent. He had a lot of thinking to do before he decided exactly what it would be set at. Interim City Manager Williams needed direction from Council because that drives everything else that goes on with the General Fund. If they are going to tell him they want him to go in with a proposal to bring it down to 6 he would go in and factor that revenue in at 6 and he will try to budget it. If it can't come back to it they may be faced with the unpopular decision of starting to cut jobs or services. Those are the things they have to prepare themselves for in the event that that takes place. Councilman Vincenzi stated idle threats. Interim City Manager Williams informed him threats, definitely not. Councilman vincenzi stated he realized it was a suggestion but he didn't think it was a reality. Councilwoman Rogers didn't believe the overall costs had gone up in the City 34.6%. She agreed with Councilman Vincenzi on the millage rate. She was not for keeping it Page 26 of 26 Council Workshop June 26,2006 where it's at. She knows what he had indicated that it would be unwise perhaps to go with the lower rate, that they can't go higher but if they go higher or start at 6.45 they can always go down but that to her would not be the most beneficial. They want the citizens to realize that they are doing their job and by going with 6.45 they are just rolling over and going with the easiest millage rather than looking at this especially since they have a 34.6% increase. Looking at the raises that the police officers and other personnel are getting, they aren't getting that kind of a percentage of raise. Councilwoman Rogers believed the Pension was very important because that always seems to be the big instrument for the reason why they have to keep the millage rate. She needed the detail and the breakdown on that. Mayor Thomas asked how firm the 34.6% was. Interim City Manager Williams felt it was pretty firm. He thought they might even see it slightly increase if he had to go off of what has happened in the past. Mayor Thomas asked what the normal increase of the City budget was. Interim City Manager Williams informed him in totality, they try to tie expenditure increases to the Consumer Price Index, which they were probably looking at a 3.6 or higher number. He spoke of other factors they needed to look at such as fuel increases. He didn't think anybody could project what could potentially happen. Mayor Thomas asked what they an increase in expenditures. informed him typically there every year. get normally and if they get Interim City Manager Williams is an increase in expenditures Mayor Thomas didn't think they were going to get a 34.6. He thought the taxable rate has already got there and leveled off. Interim City Manager Williams stated he typically tried to project at 14% or 15% and anything above that he is pleasantly surprised. Mayor Thomas stated that the City would get. Mayor Thomas asked the percentages that the City expenditures goes up a year. Interim City Manager Williams informed him 6% or 7% at a minimum. In some cases it could be higher than that. Page 27 0[27 Council Workshop June 26,2006 Mayor Thomas stated the preliminary roll back rate was 4.9387. Interim City Manager Williams stated that basically says they are going to generate the same amount of tax revenue they had generated last year. Interim City Manager Williams suggested to Council to take into consideration City Hall reserve funds and those services they continue to provide for today. If they cut those out and they still want to maintain the level of services they have provided, the increase in services at above 5%, they've got increases in benefit costs that are directly tied to that and related to that. Mayor Thomas stated there were some things they had to fix. He wanted to hire three more police officers and he wanted to fix the Pension Fund, which he knows is going to cost money. They needed to allocate money towards the Pet Society. Interim City Manager Williams stated if it's the Council's position to start planning for a City Hall or in this case maybe they decide this is where it is going to be and they start to acquire some property as they go up the street to maybe satisfy those needs. The previous Council described they would not take anybody's property under threat of condemnation. When they look at they are going to pay fair market value or slightly above to start acquiring those properties, all those provisions need to be made and he was willing to do that but he needed direction from Council where they intended to go with that millage rate so he could use it to change this budget and those projections. He would bring it back to Council with the changes taken into account and they have set it at a roll back rate but this is what they would not be able to accomplish. As presented to Council tonight, they are a little over $1 million. Mayor Thomas asked if Interim City Manager Williams was saying that if they get the 34.6% rate increase for taxable value and they roll it back to 4.9387 they would be providing the same services. Interim City Manager Williams informed him he was saying that they are $1 million over budget as proposed to Council tonight. If he took $1.7 million out of the General Fund budget, they would be $2.8 million over budget. That's a pretty significant amount of money to go in there and try to cut it out of operating costs and capital expenditures. Page 28 of 28 Council Workshop June 26, 2006 Mayor Thomas asked where the Reserve Fund was at? Interim City Manager Williams informed him they were projecting and the only thing he had to go off was last year's fixed number, what they've received revenues and expenses occurred in an eight month period of right around $4 million but that number was going to change drastically due to the fact that they have four months or better of operating expenses to go through and they have debt service that typically hits them at the end of the fiscal year. Councilman Vincenzi asked what it being projected at $4 million meant. Interim City Manager Williams informed him if they were to end the day today it would be at $4 million. Councilman Vincenzi asked what percentage that was. Interim City Manager Williams informed him they would be up 20 or 30% probably. Mayor Thomas asked how their revenue was projected with ParkTowne. He was sure the price of property had gone up. Interim City Manager Williams stated the price of property has gone up but they have pretty much sold everything they had on the books. They have some more property out there but they need to put some infrastructure in place. He has described that need to Council. He could go out for debt but that is a fixed cost that has to be put back into this budget and calculated. There is a need. There is a strong interest within the park and that is bringing jobs. He has met with a couple folks, one that is going to potentially bring 12 to 15 jobs at an average rate of $35,000 to $40,000 and two would bring 15 or so jobs and some up to 30 within that price range. They are going to have to put some investment into ParkTowne in terms of infrastructure and that's going to be debt or they take those excess moneys and save it for a few years and then pay for it. He would prefer to take out the debt and pay for it now and get the infrastructure in place to bring in the taxes. Mayor Thomas stated the employees wanted a COLA on their retirement and that is going to cost money. There is a bunch of big money that needs to be spent. Councilwoman Rogers stated but then again the numbers that he has as he has mentioned to them that this is very preliminary, when she was looking at some of the line items like Other Miscellaneous Revenue 2006 actual $37,000, 2007 zero. Then in 2006 there was a budget of a million dollars Page 29 of 29 Council Workshop June 26, 2006 for Water & Sewer and now the proposed for 2007 is $600,000, that's $400,000. Interim City Manager Williams informed her if they had been following the Management Letter comments that they have been receiving in their annual financial report, they have received comments that suggested they needed to figure out a way to lower those Water & Sewer revenue transfers and rely on the revenues of the General Fund to address those concerns. They were trying to incorporate the comments they have received from the auditors into the budget as well. Councilwoman Rogers stated there is a lot of variance in the 2007 proposed numbers from the methodology that Interim City Manager Williams explained at the beginning of the meeting regarding how the traditional or incremental budgeting is to be performed. There is a lot of play in the numbers. Mayor Thomas stated he needed to sit down with Interim City Manager Williams also because the public has asked him a lot of questions and he needs to have an adequate answer for them. Interim City Manager Williams wanted to talk about the future. They have another one of these workshops scheduled for July 17th. He was due to go on vacation starting next week, the 1st through the 8th. He suggested they postpone that budget workshop in order for him to be able to sit down and address all of the Council's needs individually and they focus on the two budget workshops that they have in August to firm up the numbers and at that point in time they will have a better direction. He needed authorization from Council to set the millage rate which coincides with he TRIM process that starts July 1st. He planned on bringing that back to council on July 10th. Councilwoman Rogers asked if they would have any other reports to go by between now and July 10th. Interim City manager Williams thought they would only have what they had in front of them. To physically get all those changes in place between now and July 10th, he would do his best but he couldn't promise them that. Interim City Manager Williams informed Council that was it for the General Fund. He asked them if they wanted to get into the Water & Sewer and Refuse Fund and so forth tonight Page 30 of 30 Council Workshop June 26, 2006 or did they want them to go back to the drawing board and firm up some of the numbers. Councilwoman Rogers felt they needed to firm up some of the numbers. For the example, the one item she brought to Interim City Manager Williams' attention the Water & Sewer and $600,000 verses $1 million. She asked for a copy of the letter so she could understand the big difference. Interim City Manager Williams informed her it was in the back of her CAFR. Councilwoman Lichter was concerned with the time if each one of them meet with Interim City Manager Williams individually. She suggested maybe they meet as a group, in a different setup, maybe a little closer together around a table and a question that was asked might be answered thn. Mayor Thomas informed her it would have to be in public. Interim City Manager Williams informed her it would be another budget workshop. Mayor Thomas asked Interim City Manager Williams if he had time to sit down with each one of them. Interim City Manager Williams stated they would set a day and address the concerns individually and get that direction. He asked for Council to give him something tonight that he could incorporate into the budget and start the process. If their intention is to go back a half a mill, let him go back and drop it in there. Councilwoman Lichter stated she sees increases that aren't even natural, like gas. She sees other ones. There are Animal Control Officers that are so busy because of the increase in population in animal households that she sees with the new developments, they enact and follow through on State Statutes and local Ordinances. Half a day every day they are out there with a cruelty case or some kind of problem with a dog or a cat and these things are in the law and they are cleaning kennels in the morning. She sees a couple of people needed there. Eventually that service is going to pay for itself. New developments are an impact. They also now have a full-time lawyer that they didn't have before so that is an addition. They are being sued. That is court costs and bigger money. It is very hard to look at just one fund. She agreed they had to start by what it really is, not what it was projected for last year if it didn't really meet that. She thinks just looking at the funds isn't enough. By the City growing and growth will Page 31 of31 Council Workshop June 26, 2006 pay for itself but by that there are additional costs, especially legal feels that they have encountered this year that weren't in there last year. She was willing not to go to some of the conferences. She would go through it line item by line item and see where they could cut something. She asked if they were collecting every bit of taxes they can collect? She would spend a couple of hours discussing this with Interim City Manager Williams. She spoke of Interim City Manager Williams not looking to spend any more in taxes than he needs to since he lives in Edgewater and has a small child and family here. She has to have a trust with who they have in front of them. She trusts his financial knowledge. She was going to have to rely somewhat on him. Interim City Manager Williams welcomed everybody's questions and comments. That is what they were there for. Interim City Manager Williams suggested if they go back to the table and they leave this as proposed at 6.45, hopefully by the next time they all gather they will come up with a pot of money that is excess and then it is up to Council to determine whether or not they want to give it back in the form of a tax break or forego planning for different projects in terms of the City Hall, acquiring lands and different things of that nature and allow that to directly come from Council and be at Council's pleasure. Councilwoman Rogers stated she wasn't wanting history to repeat itself and if she recalled last year they were in the same situation and didn't the City stay with the millage rate? Interim City Manager Williams informed her that was correct. Councilwoman Rogers stated and then they talked about going backwards and then they never did and talking about numbers, she doesn't have a problem with Interim City Manager Williams' integrity and numbers or anything like that and it's not even the fact that she is an accountant. It would just be against her grain to trust somebody wholeheartedly on something and to not look into it and make sure she understands it especially when she is making a decision for the citizen of Edgewater as a whole, she has to feel she has done everything she can and have a clear conscience. She then referred to the City Manager category, it says under executive salaries 2006 year to date was $38,823. The proposed is $169,000, what a jump. She then commented on the Professional Services for Foley & Lardner. The 2006 year-to-date was $94,000, the proposed Page 32 of 32 Council Workshop June 26,2006 is $130,000. They are talking a $36,000 increase. That's not a whole lot when she looks at the rest of the numbers. There are huge jumps. Regular salaries under Finance from $207,000 to $384,000. She asked if they have a whole new crew of Finance people. Interim City Manager Williams informed her what she was seeing was the 5.6% increase for those folks and an adjustment to represent a Finance Director if he comes in. With reference to the City Manager's budget, under Professional Salaries, they had Mr. Hooper's salary. Councilwoman Rogers stated he wasn't paid a salary. Wasn't his under Professional Services? Interim City Manager Williams informed her that was what he was describing to her. He commented on some of the changes they are seeing in the City Manager's budget. With reference to the Attorney, he thought it was Council's position that they wanted an attorney here more often. Councilwoman Rogers stated $36,000 is not material on all of those numbers so when they were talking about why they should keep the 6.45 it was mentioned up there that a lot of it had to do with hiring a full-time attorney. She was saying $36,000 on a budget of this amount of money is not material enough for her to say keep it at 6.45. They need to look at these numbers and understand. There are a lot of citizens in this City that are retired that are looking at these numbers. Interim City Manager Williams asked if Councilwoman Rogers had a millage rate she would like to see. Mayor Thomas stated when he talks about a half a mill that would make it 5.9. Interim City Manager Williams stated 5.95. That's what he needed from Council tonight so he could use that as a driver for these revenues so he could start identifying what he needed to cut. If their intention was 5.95 he would take that and run with it and he would bring back to Council a budget that recognizes that. What he is describing is they can't get down into the 11th hour be there at 6.45 and then all of a sudden get thrown a curve ball to take it to 5.95 or 5.5 or the roll back rate and try to work magic out of the numbers. They are early enough in the game that if that is their intention to do that he could take that back and give direction and go forward. Councilman vincenzi stated he wasn't going to vote for anything over 5.95. Page 33 of 33 Council Workshop June 26, 2006 Mayor Thomas stated he would like to see the numbers on 5.95. Councilwoman Rogers would like to go lower but she would agree with 5.95. Councilwoman Lichter thought there were things that don't directly affect services that might be able to be cut. A little less magazines, a little less seminars, things like that. She didn't think they could cut services. Interim City Manager Williams then described one thing he could do that would change the numbers drastically. Just from the capital perspective and it is something the city has gotten into in prior years is a lease option. They are going out and extending debt to buy $1.14 million worth of debt that levies a fixed cost of $45,000 or $50,000 a year over a period of five years. That obviously frees up a ton of money. More importantly as he is trying to describe to them the approach he would like to take with their capital needs is he wants to try to get out of the business of leasing. Because of the interest rate environment, it's a rising rate environment. They pay a little more money with those leases due to the interest expense they incur. He could incorporate that in but ultimately when he does incorporate that he is looking for some excess moneys to start funding future expenses that he described earlier. He can incorporate those changes immediately but his approach in that is to go after debt to purchase those vehicles. Councilwoman Rogers stated in the proposed plans for Reflections there was talk of funds coming to the City for City Hall. That wasn't in there yet. Interim City Manager Williams informed her not until the second reading takes place on July 10th. Councilwoman Rogers stated anything that would be similar to that that would also come into their budget at some point, if she could also have a listing of those items and what those amounts would be. She knew it wasn't in the budget yet but it is definitely something they need to think of in the back. Interim City Manager Williams stated when they look at measurement focus in terms of the General Fund Councilwoman Page 34 of 34 Council Workshop June 26, 2006 Rogers was familiar with and maybe all of the Council was familiar with an accrual type basis of accounting. When they look at that from a governmental fund perspective it goes to a measurement focus of is it available and it is measurable. They really don't incorporate anything into that unless they can identify it. Councilwoman Rogers requested a note be made to this budget regarding things like that. For instance, items like Reflections. They are planning to vote that in July 10th so they could make it part of the budget. Anything, point of negotiation with the Hammock Creek people. Interim City Manager Williams felt it was so preliminary in that process that none of that is even considered with regards to this budget. Interim City Manager Williams asked Council if they had any questions of staff. Councilwoman Lichter asked if it was legal and possible that they meet with the Department head if they have a particular question on what they have in their budget or should it work through him. Interim City Manager Williams informed her it should work through him. Dominic Capria, 606 Topside Circle, stated even Council are having a time trying to interpret what's been drawn up and he knows it is a lot of work. How do they think they feel in the audience? He feels they should be able to get a copy of these so they can go through it too. He had comments to make but he wasn't going to make them tonight but he certainly would like to go through the list. Mayor Thomas gave Mr. Capria his copy of the preliminary budget. Councilwoman Lichter pointed out she has given Mr. Capri a one in the past. Interim City Manager Williams stated he would describe that document was going to change at the close of tonight so when he came back with questions they may not relate to the new document they have in hand. Interim City Manager Williams described what he envisioned to happen with this process as they go forward in the future. He commented on changes that took place in early May that have led them to that point. What he envisions for the process in terms of budget, community involvement, strategic plan and so forth, he proposed that they look at putting some significant dollars in there for a citizen Page 35 of 35 Council Workshop June 26,2006 survey that will allow the citizens to rate their services and their concerns through that survey. Those results then incorporate into a strategic plan that they involve the community with and allow that to be part of the goal setting session as they go forward. With the transition and migration between his style and Ken's style and the interim basis it is a little too late to go back and incorporate those philosophies into this budget however come October 1st if Council decides he is the person they want in that position going forward that is what he is suggesting they do and they start that process early on, right after they adopt this budget and go forward and that will set the stage of the direction they go with allocating dollars and so forth and establishing priorities for future budgets. Mayor Thomas felt that was a good idea as long as he doesn't think it's tainted. As long as they can do it fair and unbiased he would love to hear from the citizens and how they feel on certain items, especially the controversial items. Interim City Manager Williams informed him they are looking at a professional firm of statisticians to come in and provide the survey. Councilwoman Lichter stated they did one years ago and the YMCA recreational facility was number one on the list and that did get accomplished. Mayor Thomas asked how it worked. Councilwoman Lichter informed him things were simpler then. She further commented on how the Y got built. Mayor Thomas felt they all wanted to save money and save the taxpayers money. He wants to provide quality services and quality goods to the citizens of Edgewater and if he has to spend a little more he feels it would be worthwhile. Interim City Manager Williams shared that same vision. He is a taxpayer here as well and he has a general concern for that as well. He guaranteed them if he felt there was waste in the budget he was going to sop it up and reallocate those dollars to something he feels is more appropriate and more important to that. When they sit there going through these discussions they are allies in that cause. Page 36 of 36 Council Workshop June 26,2006 Councilwoman Lichter stated sometimes they are playing catch up because things werentt done in the past. Beautification for eight years has been one of her goals and it wasntt happening but finally it did. The roads in Florida Shores are a good example. They waited and the poor Council at the time were afraid. One man even resigned from the Council because he didntt want to tax the residents to have the roads paved. They should have been done before they were done. Councilwoman Lichter spoke of there being certain things they are missing in this community now such as affordable housing. Now they have to get the industrial park up and running again if they have potential. It costs money to make money. She thinks the small businesses need an organizationt some improvementt and economic development. She has been asking to work with them to get a sign to put up in front of their placest some incentives. The small businesses on Guava and Hibiscus that have been here a long time dontt particularly look good in the community and could look better. Economic Development is vital and they have two members resigning that have been on there for years and they need some good people that can make things work. Interim City Manager Williams stated one point to think about and to know they are looking at from this perspective. They are not looking at the 2007 budget. They are focusing on 2007t 2008t 2009t 2010t 2011 and 2012 and how they address those needs coming up. If it is a need for a City Hall then they need to start thinking about that today and how they fund that especially if the voters dontt want to incur additional tax increases in the form of referendums to secure those debts to build those facilities. Those are all considerations that they are looking at internally and ultimately he knows the Council are looking at it as well. Councilwoman Rogers stated the question she had at the last meeting regarding the dredging material and what happened with that whole scenario because to tell the public $2 million to $4 million was the amount they could have possibly received on the sale of that materialt one day several months and then to be told one afternoon that it wasntt going to happent that the District said nOt she needs to understand why they were led to believe something and why was the rug pulled out from under them. Interim Page 37 of 37 Council Workshop June 26, 2006 City Manager Williams stated he couldn't speak as to exactly why they may have been led to that. The only thing he could do was attempt to address her question. He would speak to the representative at FIND. Councilwoman Rogers stated that could have been a wonderful City Hall reserve fund, beginning. Interim City Manager Williams stated it falls under that measurable and available focus he described earlier. Interim City Manager Williams stated he would take from this tonight a 5.95 approach at a minimum. Mayor Thomas informed him to see what he could do with it. Interim City Manager Williams agreed to bring that back to Council. ADJOURNMENT There being no further business to discuss, Mayor Thomas adjourned the workshop at 9:19 p.m. Minutes submitted by: Lisa Bloomer Page 38 of 38 Council Workshop June 26,2006 ~ Cd ~ a ~ ~ ~ :3 o ~ ~ , .~';I " ~ ~ C/J n > r ~ tr] > ~ I I I I v, . . . . . . . . z~~~~~~~ ~~8~~~~~ UtIj~U ~ >o:;n~en~Oen U'le~z~~tJ~ ~tJ0>et.d~O --.0 ?O r ~ tJt.d~~~z8o tIj~tIj 0 nU'l<~et.d~> > ~~~~~ ~ 0 >~e> td ~>t.dtJj U'l~ ~ Z ~ < tJ > > r e tn > Z > r ~ en ~ r./l 1 I I- . . ~(1 ~o m~ e;() 0 r~ rr 0 >(1 > 00 r mZ ~Q ~ 0 ~Z ~ mr./J · e ~ r./J ~ 0 0 Z ?O ~ r./J 0 m ~ ~ ~ ~ z 0 I I I (D c) rJ1 ~. S ~ ~~~~o~ (D ~. ~ l-i rJ1 ~()~(Dr-+a ~ pj ~. s () ~. ~. rJ1 ~ (D 0 ~ g-rJ1(Jq ~ S N (;l S S' e. s ~ rJ1 ~ () r::r 0 ~ ~. r-+ ~ ,... ~ (D rJ1 ~. \.101 ~ · o pj ~ ~ ~ ~. 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