07-12-2010 - Special
CITY COUNCIL OF EDGEWATER
SPECIAL MEETING
JULY 12, 2010
7:00 P.M.
COUNCIL CHAMBERS
MINUTES
1. CALL TO ORDER
Mayor Thomas called the Special Meeting to order at 7:00 p.m. in the
Council Chambers.
ROLL CALL
Mayor Michael Thomas
Councilwoman Debra Rogers
Councilwoman Gigi Bennington
Councilwoman Harriet Rhodes
Councilman Ted Cooper
City Manager Tracey Barlow
City Clerk Bonnie Wenzel
City Attorney Carolyn Ansay
Present
Present
Present
Present
Present
Present
Present
Present
INVOCATION, PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE
There was a silent invocation and pledge of allegiance to the Flag.
2. OTHER BUSINESS
City Manager Barlow informed Council before they got into Item 2A he
needed to continue the remainder of the budget workshop as they had
the Fire Station they needed to do a presentation on.
Councilwoman Rhodes asked if they were allowed to continue the
workshop since they started the Special Meeting. City Attorney Ansay
informed her they could amend the agenda for the Special Meeting to
have the presentation now.
Fire Chief Steve Cousins made a staff presentation by going over the
attached Powerpoint Presentation.
Councilwoman Rhodes asked about the energy efficiency and what was
included. Fire Chief Cousins identified solar panels, energy
efficient low flow toilets, air conditioning units, reclaimed usage of
stormwater and drainage to be used for irrigation. He commented on
minimum requirements that the Federal government requires.
1
Council Special Meeting
July 12, 2010
There was further discussion regarding energy efficiency. They will
be increasing the square footage of the Fire Station but are expecting
to see no increase or a savings in utility bills.
Councilwoman Rogers asked what the square footage was of the existing
Fire Station, including the Administration buildings. Fire Chief
Cousins informed her if they included all the out buildings, he
estimated it to be about 8,500 square feet.
There was a brief discussion about the new Fire Station replacing all
of the existing buildings on the property.
There was also a discussion regarding the way the building
u.s. #1 and using the existing u.s. #1 entrance and exit.
oriented the bays so they can enter on one street and exit
street.
will face
They have
on another
Councilwoman Rogers felt Option 3 seemed to be the most comparable.
She expressed concern that they are indicating the site design is
complete and now they have these options they have to be looking at.
She asked how soon this would begin and what year they would start
seeing the debt payment. Finance Director McKinney informed her 2012.
Councilwoman Rogers referred to the Principal portion of the debt
schedule provided by Mr. McKinney that shows in 2017 the debt for Fund
001 would be down to $120,000 but then she looked at Fund 440 and that
debt was starting to grow. She feels they have a sleeping giant and
then they are going to have the Fire Station they are going to have to
deal with. She mentioned what was going on in Port Orange with Fire
Stations and Fire Departments and here they are getting ready to go
into debt for one.
City Manager Barlow informed Councilwoman Rogers that Fund 440 was the
Enterprise Funds and that she was comingling the General Fund and
Enterprise Funds and that it was important to keep those separate.
Councilwoman Rogers informed him it was still debt and still money no
matter how they look at it. If the Enterprise Fund isn't able to fund
itself then the funds are going to be transferred from the General
Fund. City Manager Barlow informed her they would be loaned and not
transferred because they pay those back unless they forgive those
later. He commented on this being the difference between rate payers
and tax payers.
Councilwoman Rogers expressed concern with whether or not they needed
to continue with this at this point.
Councilman Cooper asked Fire Chief Cousins how they could go from
8,500 to worst case scenario 4,500 square feet. Fire Chief Cousins
informed him they couldn't. Councilman Cooper asked which option fit
everything they have to have. There was no sense for Council to
2
Council Special Meeting
July 12, 2010
choose an option if they can't utilize it. Fire Chief Cousins
informed him Option 5 really wasn't an option. Option 3 is the
minimum they could transfer from what they currently have now.
Basically they are upgrading to new. Option 3 doesn't take into
account the administrative staff. They would have to relocate. He
felt Option 1 was the minimum of what the City needed today and has
the ability to survive through the lifetime of the Fire Station but
that doesn't mean they can afford that. If they could afford to
invest in the future, they needed to consider Options 1 and 2 as well.
Councilman Cooper commented on Port Orange's Police Station, which was
built for 10 to 15 years into the future. If they are really going to
do this he didn't want something to be proposed that would be outdated
in three years or they couldn't even house the Fire Department. He
felt it seemed like a waste of taxpayer money.
Councilwoman Rogers commented on the Port Orange Police Department
looking at going to Volusia County. So really what good was that
great big building unless they decide to sell the building to Volusia
County or lease it? City Manager Barlow commented on the Fire Station
on Hibiscus that was built in 1999.
Finance Director McKinney commented on what the annual debt service
would be for Options 1, 2 and 3. The current interest rate was 3.6%.
Councilwoman Rogers felt that was a great interest rate.
Mayor Thomas entertained a motion.
Finance Director McKinney commented on the refinancing not changing
and no one issuing greater than 7 years. It is a 7 year balloon.
They would still carry the City for the fifteen years but there could
be an adjustment at seven years.
Councilman Cooper commented on Option 1 being costly for them at this
time. He asked if there was any way possible that they could look at
this budget to get them the Fire Station they want but he felt the
debt service had to be reduced.
Councilwoman Rogers asked if they could do Option 3 which has a
$33,000 annual debt service as a phase one with the possibility of
expanding it later. Fire Chief Cousins informed her they had the
ability but the biggest component was there would be nowhere for the
administrative staff and they would be losing some of their storage as
well as some of their sleeping area. He spoke of building it after
the fact costing more. Those were some of the decisions they were
discussing tonight.
Councilwoman Rogers made mention of the $100,000 per year they are
setting aside for City Hall. She didn't see it being that big of a
difference construction wise considering what is going on especially
3
Council Special Meeting
July 12, 2010
out there. She suggested going with one that is affordable now with
the hope and thought that they are going to do the other later and
start putting some funds aside.
City Manager Barlow further explained if Option 3 was where they
landed it would still cost to bull doze the current administration
building and they would have to be relocated somewhere due to Option 3
not accounting for the Administration Offices.
Councilman Cooper asked how long the grant was available to them.
Fire Chief Cousins informed him the project had to be complete within
a three year window. They are just short of a year already.
Councilman Cooper commented on government all the way to Washington,
D.C. being upside down. He asked if they could afford to wait to see
what happened in the next four months. He hates to lose grant money.
Fire Chief Cousins informed him they could do whatever the will was.
Councilwoman Rhodes pointed out the reason he was bringing this before
them was because they have to do the budget and whatever they decide
has to be included in the budget so they could set the millage.
Councilwoman Rogers asked if this was an expenditure driven grant.
She was informed it was. That was something she was pretty
comfortable saying under these options isn't calculated. They will
have to increase the line of credit because they are going to have to
put the money out. Then this cost is not correct because it does not
include that debt service. Mr. McKinney informed her if they go
forward with this then if they go out to bid and notice to proceed
November 1st, he would somewhere in October issue the debt service and
there would be no debt service payment until next fiscal year, 2012.
Councilwoman Rogers stated they are having to spend money before they
can get the money from the grant. Mr. McKinney informed her they
already had money in place on the fire impact fee money. Councilwoman
Rogers asked him how much. Mr. McKinney informed her $219,000.
Councilwoman Rogers asked how far they could go with that. Mr.
McKinney commented on this being part of what the cash balance is and
what the budget stabilization fund was for. Councilwoman Rogers asked
about the $899,000 grant for Water and Sewer being expenditure driven
and having to use the line of credit for it. Mr. McKinney informed
her they did not do the line of credit. Councilwoman Rogers stated
they haven't received any money from that expenditure driven grant.
Mr. McKinney informed her he was being reimbursed every three weeks.
The City has been sending everything to the State for reimbursement.
Councilwoman Rogers expressed concern with having a lot of stuff out
there and they are going to be hoping for this money to come in and
reimburse them and they are going to be putting money out. Mr.
McKinney explained all the funding so far was funded by EPA who has
already given that money to the State who in turn reimburses the City.
Everything he has submitted he has had a three week turn around or
less.
4
Council Special Meeting
July 12, 2010
Councilman Cooper asked if there was anything Fire Chief Cousins, City
Manager Barlow and Mr. McKinney saw coming where there may be
additional grant money where they can piggy back on this. Fire Chief
Cousins stated they are trying every opportunity. They are only one
of five in the State that was awarded this grant. This estimated cost
was based on an estimate they felt comfortable with. When they go out
to bid there is a possibility it will come in at or under. He
guaranteed the Council every opportunity they can to save a dollar in
the project they are going to take advantage of it. He further
commented on some grant money they are currently applying for with the
State with regards to emergency management due to having to evacuate
the station in the event of a storm or wind event.
Councilwoman Bennington felt if they were going to do this they needed
to do Option 1 and give them what they need. The Fire Department has
gone out on a limb and they got this grant. They are so concerned
about providing services for the people. One of their
responsibilities is giving their employees the equipment and the stuff
they need to provide the vital services. If they give them any less
than what they need then they are derelict in their duties in
representing the people and keeping the people protected. She didn't
see how they could even discuss this any further She knows it is a
terrible burden to consider with the way the economy is but right now
is the time to bite the bullet and do it for the citizens to provide
them the safety and the security they need. She further spoke of the
Police Department outgrowing their location, which used to be a
library.
Mayor Thomas commented on Edgewater growing and needing to do this for
the future. He was in favor of Option 1.
Councilwoman Rhodes wanted to know what the wind load was. She always
understood that anything east of 1-95 could not be a shelter. Fire
Chief Cousins informed her it was not a shelter. Fire Captain Jill
Danigel informed her the wind load was 120.
councilwoman Rhodes stated they are never going to get money or labor
cheaper than they can now. It's a burden but it is going to be a
bigger burden later on. She agreed with Councilwoman Bennington that
they would be remiss if they did not do this. She felt it should be a
priority.
Councilwoman Rogers commented on federal grants and asked if it was
Davis Bacon payroll. She didn't feel they would get it as cheap as
they think due to the Davis Bacon payroll being adjusted in March.
Mr. McKinney commented on sitting with Hall Construction, who has done
quite a few of the grant funded stations throughout the State of
Florida such as Port Orange and Ormond Beach.
5
Council Special Meeting
July 12, 2010
City Manager Barlow further commented on meeting with Hall
Construction who he felt was an extremely reputable commercial
contractor. He is very familiar with the Davis Bacon Act. He felt
very confident that $159 per square foot was a good number.
Councilwoman Rogers asked City Manager Barlow to do some research and
get back with Council and tell them what the final costs came in at
for recently built fire stations and what the square footage was. She
felt $159 per square foot seemed cheap.
Councilwoman Bennington made a motion to tell the Fire Department to
proceed with Option 1, second by Councilwoman Rhodes.
City Attorney Ansay explained this item was not on the agenda and it
was fine for them to take a position on it. In accordance with the
City's Resolution, she suggested Mayor Thomas open it up for public
comment.
Mayor Thomas asked for public comment.
The following citizens spoke:
Dominic Capri a , 606 Topside Circle, wanted to know if the motion was
for Option 1. Councilwoman Bennington informed him yes.
Bob McIntosh, 2921 Sabal Palm Drive, stated the grant they were
dealing with was a FEMA grant so the money would be guaranteed.
Councilwoman Rogers asked if they had received the money from the 2004
hurricanes of what went on across the street. Mr. McIntosh described
this grant as being different because it was dealing with construction
of an emergency facility.
Mayor Thomas closed the public hearing and asked for a roll call vote.
The MOTION CARRIED 3-2. Councilwoman Roqers and Councilman Cooper
voted NO.
A. Authorization for the City Manager to advertise the Maximum
Millage rates for ad valorem and voted debt service for Fiscal
Year 2010/2011
City Manager Barlow made a staff presentation. He informed Council
the budget they received last week was a very rough budget with a 6.36
millage rate. He commented on some of the things that did not get
covered in the workshop that weren't funded in the budget with regard
to personnel and street paving.
Mr. McKinney identified the roll back rate as being 7.7048.
6
Council Special Meeting
July 12, 2010
Councilman Cooper asked what they would like to see Council recommend.
Mr. McKinney didn't believe they should advertise a maximum millage of
greater than 7.0%.
Councilman Cooper stated the 6.36 was being recommended with
absolutely no raise to any City employee for the third year in a row.
City Manager Barlow reminded Council this was to set the maximum
millage only. They still have a swing at the budget as they get into
the weeds in August to bring it back. If they can dwindle a budget
down plus identify the projects the Council has requested, they could
still get between the 7.0 and 6.36. They cannot go up.
Councilwoman Rhodes would like to see it advertised at 7% but she
would like to see them come back with a budget with everything they
want in it still at 6.36.
Councilwoman Rogers wanted to talk about something that was in the
newspaper on June 26th. Volusia County has the second highest County
rate in the State. Volusia is not considering layoffs and service
reductions this summer that other counties are struggling with as
property values and tax revenues continue to plummet. Edgewater is
the highest in Volusia County and they aren't considering it either.
In the past this Council has always taken the position of advertising
at a high rate and then patting everyone on the back because they came
in a little bit lower. She felt they needed to start at 6% and go
lower.
Councilwoman Bennington didn't feel they could set the millage that
low when they haven't even really gone through the budget. She didn't
think it would be responsible of them to set it at 6 when they know
there are other things that are going to have to be added. She would
like to see it advertised at 7%.
City Manager Barlow advised Council even at the 6.36 mills they were
at an over $800,000 reduction in revenue. If they went with 7.0 mills
they would be at a $411,000 reduction from this year. The 6.0 that
has been referenced is over $1 million. At a million dollar reduction
there will be individuals laid off and services cut.
Councilwoman Rhodes pointed out they already aren't filling jobs that
come open so people are being cut. They aren't being laid off; they
just aren't being replaced.
Councilwoman Rogers stated haven't they utilized the fact that they
have not funded certain positions so whenever there is a budget
amendment that comes in they use that figure and say they can afford
something because there was a job that was frozen. They use that
tactic all the time. Mr. McKinney was aware of two instances where
they used that tactic.
7
Council Special Meeting
July 12, 2010
Councilwoman Rhodes stated if the money is in the budget and it is not
used why would you not use it for something else equally valid?
Mayor Thomas pointed out last year they cut $1.7 million out of the
budget. The year before that they cut $1.2 million out of the budget.
Mayor Thomas asked how much they were cutting this year. Mr. McKinney
informed him at 6.36 they were $839,228 less than last year.
Councilwoman Rogers referred to the Property Class Listing 2009, Real
Property Final Tax Roll. She questioned why there was such a spread
from 2009 to 2010. City Manager Barlow stated from last year to this
year our property values minus the new construction took a $143
million hit.
Councilman Cooper described the $800,000 reduction as being more
because the City is collecting a lot less now. Councilwoman Rogers
described the difference between the market value and the taxable
value going from $300,000 to about $500,000. The taxable value in
2003 was $557,000. The taxable value in 2010 was $688,000.
City Manager Barlow identified the taxable value the year before as
being $822,000,000 and we are down to $685,000,000 now minus $6
million in new construction. Property values decreased by
$143,000,000.
Mayor Thomas asked for public comment.
The following citizen spoke:
Dominic Capri a , 606 Topside Circle, was sure before this was allover
there would be people coming up to show the Council where they can
reduce. He thought it would happen at the next meeting. The thing
that bothers him the most is they always try to start high. They know
they are shooting for 6.36 but yet they want to go for 7 or higher
than 7. He felt they should stick with the 6.36 and probably maybe
lower that a little bit once all the facts are in.
Mayor Thomas entertained a motion.
Councilwoman Bennington made a motion to advertise at 7 mills, second
by Councilwoman Rhodes.
The MOTION CARRIED 4-1. Councilwoman Roqers voted NO.
Councilman Cooper stated they really need to take a look hard this
year. Not so much that they want to lower services but they are going
to start dumping employees like there is no tomorrow and they need
their employees. They are going to have to find a way to fund a
raise.
8
Council Special Meeting
July 12, 2010
Mr. McKinney informed Council they had to pass the voted debt service
rate also in a separate vote.
Councilman Cooper made a motion to include the voted debt service rate
of .0475, second by Councilwoman Rhodes.
The MOTION CARRIED 5 - 0 .
B. Approval of Change Order No.1 for $24,465 to Billco
Construction, Inc., for the Hawks Park Amphitheater Roof
Leisure Services Director Jack Corder made a staff presentation.
City Manager Barlow commented on the new design being one that can be
lowered and raised. He spoke of trying to use this for smaller
concerts and different events that will attract people to Edgewater.
Councilman Cooper asked about the roof not meeting the windload
requirements. He questioned this being canvas. Mr. Corder informed
him they would be able to remove the cover.
Councilwoman Rhodes didn't understand why they couldn't get the
windload. Mr. Corder informed her they filed a lawsuit against their
architect.
Mayor Thomas asked if they checked with Deland Post and Steel. Mr.
Corder commented on this being a contract with Billco who has hired a
local subcontractor and a local engineer to come up with the design.
Mayor Thomas stated the basic thing they needed was shade and rain
resistant. They could build a really nice pole barn a lot cheaper and
it would be just as attractive.
Councilwoman Rogers stated when she looked at this and saw the cost
she about fell out of her seat and then she sees a change order for
$25,000 and then she sees it was initiated by staff because of a
design change and because they were wanting it to go and be movable.
Mayor Thomas felt they needed to do more research. He asked if they
had to deal with these people. Mr. Corder stated unless they wanted
to void the contract and start over. Councilwoman Rogers asked where
they were getting the $79,000 from and if it was funded last year in
the budget. Mr. Corder informed her it was grant money and recreation
impact fees.
Councilwoman Rogers commented on what was noted in the City CAFR
regarding the $300,000 over expenditure in recreation impact fees.
They were getting ready to vote next week on reducing impact fees.
She felt they needed to be thinking about this. Mr. Corder informed
9
Council Special Meeting
July 12, 2010
her the impact fees weren't tied to commercial and was strictly
residential.
Councilman Cooper asked how much the original grant was for. Mr.
Corder informed him it was for $286,000 because of the design at that
time that the Council wanted. The company went belly up. They had to
go to court over it. This project has been dragging on for almost
five years. If he doesn't have this project done by October they will
probably lose a portion of the grant because he has asked for as many
extensions as he can get.
Councilwoman Rogers suggested they eliminate this at this point and
move forward as they did with the shuffleboard courts because they
can't afford it.
Mr. Corder thought a year and a half ago or so he came before Council
and asked if they wanted to complete the project and he was given
direction to complete it.
Councilwoman Rogers made a motion to deny this.
Councilman Cooper asked if they had to get public comment on this.
City Attorney Ansay informed him yes.
Mayor Thomas asked for public comment.
There was no public comment.
The motion DIED due to the lack of a second.
Mayor Thomas asked for another motion.
Councilwoman Rhodes asked how much money had been spent on this
already. Mr. Corded informed her basically the only cost he had in
there was the administrative costs for the advertising for the bid
project. They have money out where they give a down payment for the
project. If they don't complete it project they would have to ask for
it back.
Mayor Thomas asked the size of it. Mr. Corder informed him it was
approximately fifty-six foot by fifty foot.
Councilwoman Bennington asked where the money was coming from. Mr.
Corder informed her they had an ECHO grant. They had up to $86,000 on
the EHCO grant. It was a fifty-fifty match. He had reserve funds in
recreation impact fees that would be used for the matching portion.
Councilman Cooper asked what the balance would be of the recreation
impact fee money after they paid for this project.
10
Council Special Meeting
July 12, 2010
Councilman Cooper mentioned waiving impact fees lately. Councilwoman
Rogers stated she hadn't been waiving them and that the rest of
Council had. City Manager Barlow reminded Council the impact fees
they had been waiving were on commercial and not residential.
Mr. Corder informed Council presently he had a little over $139,000 so
they would have a little over $50,000 taken out for that project which
would leave him with around $89,000.
Mayor Thomas commented on the forty foot by 20 foot pole barn he built
for $10,000.
Councilman Cooper commented on the slab already being built
tentatively for a particular design. Mr. Corder commented on doing a
design build for this project. He has had several meetings with the
contractor, subcontractor and architect to where they could afford to
get it done.
Councilwoman Bennington moved to grant the Change Order for $24,465 to
be paid out of the recreation impact fees, second by Councilman
Cooper.
The MOTION CARRIED 3-2. Councilwoman Roqers and Mayor Thomas voted
NO.
Councilman Cooper asked Mr. Corder when it would be complete. Mr.
Corder was projecting to have it done by September.
3. ADJOURNMENT
There being no further business to discuss the special Meeting
adjourned at 8:07 p.m.
Minutes submitted by:
Lisa Bloomer
11
Council Special Meeting
July 12, 2010
Councilman Cooper mentioned waiving impact fees lately. Councilwoman
Rogers stated she hadn't been waiving them and that the rest of
Council had. City Manager Barlow reminded Council the impact fees
they had been waiving were on commercial and not residential.
Mr. Corder informed Council presently he had a little over $139,000 so
they would have a little over $50,000 taken out for that project which
would leave him with around $89,000.
Mayor Thomas commented on the forty foot by 20 foot pole barn he built
for $10,000.
Councilman Cooper commented on the slab already being built
tentatively for a particular design. Mr. Corder commented on doing a
design build for this project. He has had several meetings with the
contractor, subcontractor and architect to where they could afford to
get it done.
Councilwoman Bennington moved to grant the Change Order for $24,465 to
be paid out of the recreation impact fees, second by Councilman
Cooper.
The MOTION CARRIED 3-2. Councilwoman Roqers and Mayor Thomas voted
NO.
Councilman Cooper asked Mr. Corder when it would be complete. Mr.
Corder was projecting to have it done by September.
3. ADJOURNMENT
There being no further business to discuss the Special Meeting
adjourned at 8:07 p.m.
Minutes submitted by:
Lisa Bloomer
Attest:
APPROVED:
City of Edgewater, Florida
Bonnie Wenzel, City Clerk
Michael L. Thomas, Mayor
11
Council Special Meeting
July 12, 2010