10-05-1998 - Regular
......., ...."
CITY COUNCIL OF EDGEWATER
REGULAR MEETING
OCTOBER 5, 1998
7:00 P.M.
COMMUNITY CENTER
MINUTES
CALL TO ORDER
Mayor Allman called the Regular Meeting to order at 7:00
p.m. in the Community Center.
ROLL CALL
Mayor Randy Allman
Councilman James Gornto
Councilman Myron Hammond
Councilman Gary Roberts
Councilwoman Judith Lichter
City Attorney Nikki Clayton
Interim City Manager Kenneth Hooper
City Clerk Susan Wadsworth
Police Chief Lawrence Schumaker
Present
Present
Present
Present
Present
Present
Present
Present
Present
INVOCATION. PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE
There was a silent invocation and pledge of allegiance to
the Flag.
APPROVAL OF MINUTES
A. Special meetinq of September 10, 1998
Councilman Gornto made a motion to approve the September 10,
1998 minutes, second by Councilman Roberts. The motion
CARRIED 5-0.
CITIZEN COMMENTS REGARDING AGENDA ITEMS ONLY
Dick Martinez, 317 Schooner Avenue, spoke about meetings
taking place with the YMCA and DBCC over the gymnasium. He
asked about having a workshop with the citizens regarding
this. He would still like to see this happen. He believes
the citizens of Edgewater should participate in that
discussion and that decision. He doesn't feel just staff
should be doing that.
CITY COUNCIL REPORTS
Councilman Roberts had nothing at this time.
Councilwoman Lichter reminded Council that on Wednesday,
October 14th, between 6:30 and 8:30, she would be available
to answer any questions from citizens.
Mayor Allman stated in the beginning of November, Edgewater
is going to be co-sponsoring an adult men's baseball league.
It will be out at Whistle stop Park.
Mayor Allman stated this Saturday and every Saturday
thereafter until it proves not necessary he will be meeting
at City Hall from 10:00 to 12:00 with an open forum also.
Jack Corder and Bill Jackson will be with him on Saturday.
Mayor Allman spoke about the 50th Anniversary Celebration
for the Fire Department. He commended the Fire Department
for their work towards the event.
Mayor Allman spoke of the ground breaking for Fire station
#57. He feels this is another step forward for the City of
Edgewater.
.,....
.....-
Mayor Allman spoke of local business people having quite a
few problems during the fires. He spoke of Karaoke night at
Athens. He read something in piece of my Mind stating that
is where the new secret meetings are being held because
Myron's and his picture were in the paper, but the person
didn't realize the reporter from the Observer was sitting
with them. If there was something going, you would have
read about that. That is just how rumors get started. They
will be doing Karaoke night again on October 17th.
Councilman Gornto spoke about being criticized for having a
panic attach on Monday the 15th We didn't even meet on
Monday the 15th. The jist of the article was he had been
critical of the News Journal. He was critical of the News
Journal that night because of the way they presented
historical facts that took place almost a year ago, as an
item that was so newsworthy it deserved to be on the front
page of the paper and then took two full pages of the A-
section. He was also critical that night of a letter Mr.
Hooper wrote to the managing Editor of the newspaper, in
which he took exception to that coverage. He took the most
exception to the last paragraph in the letter that came
back. There was been one critical moment that has been
criticized and has been the subject of conversation and a
lawsuit. One point in time, there has been no pattern of
trying to keep anything from the public. There has been no
criticism of anything that has occurred since that date.
This piece of my mind article even suggested he ought to use
part of the time of the Council meeting to go over the
response from the News Journal in regarding to the City's
motion to have a summary judgment. He doesn't have to
because the Observer has already done a pretty good job of
that.
Councilman Gornto read a couple of paragraphs from an
article in the Observer. We have worked a year trying to
pull together and get something positive accomplished. He
is fed up with being fed up.
Councilman Hammond agreed with Councilman Gornto. There has
been a lot of negativity and he is tired of it. He spoke
about a gentleman that was against him going into office
that came by his place of work and spoke about Edgewater
lowering the taxes approximately 3%. He hopes the News
Journal will look at what the Council is doing as a whole.
He would like to start seeing some positive reports and go
forward.
PUBLIC HEARINGS. ORDINANCES AND RESOLUTIONS
A. First Readinq - Ord. 98-0-08 amendinq Chapter 2
(Definitions) and Chapter 10 (Hardship Relief) of the
Land Development Code to add 'minor residential
construction variance.'
Mayor Allman read Ord. 98-0-08.
Interim city Manager Hooper made a staff presentation.
Councilwoman Lichter and Councilman Roberts feel this is an
excellent idea.
Mayor Allman opened the public hearing. Due to there being
no citizen comments, the public hearing was closed.
Councilman Roberts made a motion to approve Ord. 98-0-08,
second by Councilwoman Lichter. The motion CARRIED 5-0.
Page -2-
Council Regular Meeting
October 5, 1998
.......
'WIll
CONSENT AGENDA
A. Committee Appointment - Mayor Allman's appointment of
Ed Keenan to the MPO's citizen's Advisory Committee to
replace John Moore
B. Library Parkinq Lot Expansion proiect - Executed
aqreement with A.B.M. Construction. Inc. to complete
the ~arkinq lot extension
Councilman Gornto made a motion to approve the Consent
Agenda, second by Councilman Hammond.
Interim City Manager commented on the Library Parking Lot
Expansion Project. This will be completed in two weeks.
Councilman Roberts asked how long the position for Mr.
Keenan is for. Mayor Allman stated until the end of
Council's term.
The motion CARRIED 5-0.
OTHER BUSINESS
A. Enqineerinq Consultinq Services - Staff recommendinq
approval of contract with Hans Wolfer for enqineerinq
services for site plan and subdivision review. (Pulled
from September 24. 1998 meetinq)
Interim City Manager Hooper explained the contract and the
services Mr. Wolfer would be providing.
Councilman Roberts asked if he is running a private practice
at this time. Interim City Manager Hooper stated he isn't
doing anything for anyone else.
Councilwoman Lichter stated if this gentleman works an hour,
or two, or three, in turn the builder, the engineer, the
project people are going to end up paying for that. Interim
City Manager Hooper informed her that is correct.
Councilwoman Lichter doesn't feel this is friendly.
Councilwoman Lichter asked how much more on average it may
cost a builder, how many hours. Interim City Manager Hooper
explained it is minimal but depends on the complexity and
size of the project.
Councilwoman Lichter feels they need to be thinking of a
list of things that will help encourage building and
business and come up with some incentives.
Councilman Roberts questioned if this is strictly for
commercial site plan approval. Interim City Manager Hooper
informed her this also included a subdivision that had a
plat.
Councilman Roberts spoke of there always being a site plan
review fee through Community Development. Interim City
Manager Hooper explained these additional fees are on top of
the staff review fees. Staff's proposal is to give this a
try.
Councilman Roberts stated since we are accepting st. John's
River Water Management permits, that should eliminate a lot
of time spent on reviewing. Prior to that the City Engineer
would require his own calculations on stormwater control and
most of the time it was overriding st. John's. He feels
smaller projects will be done fairly rapidly.
Page -3-
Council Regular Meeting
October 5, 1998
,.,.
...,
Interim city Manager Hooper elaborated on the streamlining
process that will be used.
councilman Roberts suggested looking at the results in six
months. He feels they should talk to some of the developers
that use the system and find out what their thoughts are.
Planning Division Manager Lynne Plaskett stated Mr. Wolfer
would be required, prior to C.O., make sure they comply with
st. John's.
councilwoman Lichter asked about it being a one-year
contract. Interim City Manager Hooper further elaborated on
the contract.
Councilman Gornto moved for approval, second by Councilman
Roberts. The motion CARRIED 5-0.
B. special Activitv Permit - No-Name Saloon. 2001 S.
Ridqewood Avenue. requestinq Council approval to hold
their first Annual Oktoberfest from October 16tn
throuqh October 25tn.
Patrick Girvan, 2201 S. Ridgewood Ave., owner of No Name
Saloon along with his son, Jim, are available to answer
questions the city put together for them.
Jim Girvan elaborated on concerns expressed by the Planning
Department. He elaborated on what they would like to do
during Oktoberfest and the activities they are planning on
having. Everything is behind a six-foot fence. They do not
have a problem paying the $150 per event but the City is
requesting $150 per day per event. He asked to waive the
daily fee and just give them a flat $150 for the permit for
the event. He spoke to 35 residents in the immediate area
where the event would occur and he didn't have any
complaints. Their names are provided on a petition.
Mr. Girvan went on to speak about concerns of the Fire
Department and Police Department. He feels this event will
bring a lot of business to Edgewater. He feels they should
grow together and give them a chance for the Oktoberfest.
He stated they would appreciate any support.
Councilwoman Lichter asked about the $150 permit fee per day
for ten days and Mr. Girvan asking to waive the permit. Mr.
Girvan explained technically they are going to have four
days of events that they are asking for a permit for. He
spoke of the improvements made to the bar.
Councilman Roberts asked if they will need officers doing
overtime for these events. Chief Schumaker stated
absolutely. Councilman Roberts asked if a portion of the
$150 per day administrative fee covers the police overtime.
city Attorney Clayton explained there would be off-duty and
on-duty. On-duty is covered under the $150, the off-duty
would be the applicants responsibility.
Chief Schumaker spoke of Casa EI Toro being a problem.
Since they have taken the bar over, it has been well
policed. They have had very few calls down there. They
have never experienced an event of this magnitude outside of
a bar and that is a political decision that has to be made.
Councilman Roberts asked for Chief's input on the time as
far as they are requesting extra time in the evening.
Page -4-
Council Regular Meeting
October 5, 1998
....,
.."",
Chief Schumaker explained he believes they have already set
that precedent a number of Councils ago. During Bike Week
all of the bars in the City have been granted from 2 a.m. to
3 a.m. closing hour. Up to this point in time, that has not
been a factor either. Hi-Tops was the one that made
repeated requests to stay open until 3 a.m. Once you grant
one bar the ability to stay open until 3 a.m., you
correspondingly grant all bars that ability also.
Interim City Manager Hooper feels they are into a policy
area that doesn't have a lot of precedent. The rules are
very fuzzy and the City has a very poor Land Development
Code that would allow this to occur by special exception or
any application they have here. He elaborated on how this
has been done in the past. If Council is interested in
meeting a middle ground and trying to work out a trial
effort, they can do that. Council has full authority to say
no or to come to a compromise based on what previous
Councils had done in the past of working with the special
areas in the zoning categories and being able to come up
with conditions such as the time. There are insurance
requirements and other requirements for setting aside
funding for overtime for the Police. He thinks those need
to be addressed and staff has some suggestions on those but
the first real decision is does Council want to progress
with this discussion.
Mayor Allman feels they have to show some kind of basis for
business friendly. The $150 for our own businesses in town
is ludicrous.
councilwoman Lichter feels personality becomes involved in
this kind of decision and she tries to think of the total
community. She also understands the businessman's point of
view. It seems to her to let ten days go by without
collecting something we have on the books, if we decide to
go this way, would not be proper for the city. She feels
$600 isn't a bad thought in figures. She feels since the
bar will profit from this , they should pick up some of the
expense.
Councilman Roberts stated the only time they have waived the
fees is for non-profit organizations. Interim City Manager
Hooper stated predominantly 80 or 90% of the all of them
have been non-profit organizations.
councilman Hammond asked if anyone else has received any
phone calls. He received around 11 phone calls and
unfortunately it wasn't in favor. Mr. Girvan stated when he
was out visiting the residents he didn't have one bad
response.
Councilman Hammond asked how long the music will go on. Mr.
Girvan stated the music will be over around 1 a.m.
Councilwoman Lichter asked the capacity inside by fire
standards. Mr. Girvan stated they it is approximately 100
to 125. They can fit several hundred outside. He doesn't
feel spacing will be a problem. He doesn't foresee a big
crowd this year but they want to get a grip on it now.
councilwoman Lichter feels they can be people friendly and
grant permission but she spoke about a cost for fire and
police services. She thinks a minimum cost could be $600.
Mr. Girvan stated they would be willing to pay the $600.
Councilwoman Lichter feels they need to talk about if they
are ready to take the concept or not and what to do about
fees.
Page -5-
council Regular Meeting
October 5, 1998
.......
...,
Councilman Roberts stated if this is the first year and a
trial run, why not just work within the normal hours until 2
a.m. and then we aren't having to extend hours for every
other lounge.
Councilman Hammond stated if the Council let's this go
through on conditions and it becomes a fiasco, next year if
it comes back up it would be no problem to shut it down.
Interim City Manager Hooper informed him he would have to
address it in the Land Development Code and the rules. The
way it is structured right now, there aren't any real clear
rules at all. This has never been addressed properly in the
past. If it is a problem this year and it comes up next
year there will be a mechanism to be able to reflect on what
happened this year and Council will be able to say no.
Andy Anderson, pine Tree Drive, spoke about the noise and
feels we don't need it in Edgewater.
Councilman Gornto stated he received one call regarding
noise.
There was a brief discussion as to whether or not the noise
level could be regulated.
Charlie Gianino, 1909 S. Riverside Drive, Unit 6, stated he
is pro-business because he is a businessman. He feels the
owner has done a terrific job in this location. He feels
the petition has been presented very well. He lives within
a quarter of a mile and has never seen him. He lives in a
ten apartment building and neither has his neighbors. He
feels the Council has not asked the pertinent questions such
as the capacity of this building. Councilwoman Lichter
clarified she asked that question.
Mr. Gianino asked about restroom facilities. Councilman
Roberts stated this information was listed on the
application. There will be four portalets.
Mr. Girvan stated they could probably fit three or four
hundred people. Now that they have the addition behind that
they can fit an additional two or three hundred. Mr.
Gianino stated so they are going to have four hundred folks
and only four johns.
Mr. Girvan stated they have no idea how many people are
going to show up. If there are a lot of people, they have
access to sixteen more johns.
There was a brief discussion regarding parking for the
motorcycles.
Mr. Gianino doesn't feel the people that signed the petition
know what they signed. He requested they lay this on the
table until Council finds out if they know what they signed.
Mr. Gianino continued to speak about why he feels this event
shouldn't be allowed in Edgewater.
Ben DelNigro, 3130 Tamarind Drive, presented reasons why he
wished Council would not approve this.
Bill Schroeder, 218 Azalea Drive, spoke about the noise from
the carnival. Noise coming from that direction does travel.
Mayor Allman feels they should go and look at the property.
Councilwoman Lichter feels a compromise could be worked out.
Page -6-
Council Regular Meeting
October 5, 1998
~
~
Mr. Girvan further elaborated this is a trial basis this
year. They are assuming that 100 bikes will corne at any
time. If the music gets that loud that it disturbs the
neighbors he asked to be called. They would like to get
this going and work with together on this.
Councilwoman Lichter asked what time the music stops. Mr.
Girvan informed her 1:00 a.m. After that they will have
music inside.
Councilman Roberts asked if there is anything on the legal
end that they have to consider. City Attorney Clayton
explained the difficulty we have is we are not helped by the
existing codes and there is nothing under which they could
grant or deny that is something that will help them do this
consistently.
City Attorney Clayton spoke about the timing being difficult
to review the site because the next Council meeting is in
the middle or just before this event. She spoke about the
inspections being done by Planning, Building and the Fire
Department.
Councilwoman Lichter stated the gentleman is corning in for a
waiver of fees to hold this event. She questioned the
permit for the stage. City Attorney Clayton elaborated on
the type of activities that are out of the ordinary that
would be associated with the tavern that would require a
special permit.
Councilwoman Lichter feels they can not waive ten days of
expenses. She feels extending the hours to 3 a.m. is
horrendous. She would like to see them pay $600 and feels
the hours should not be extended and whatever else is
necessary.
Mayor Allman asked about the hours for taverns being
extended during Bike Week. Chief Schumaker stated for the
past at least four years, during Bike Week, all the bars in
Edgewater have been granted an extension until 3 a.m.
City Clerk Wadsworth stating there is an ordinance on the
books that allows Bike Week to operate until 3 a.m.
Interim City Manager Hooper feels Council needs to look at
if this is what they want and if this the proper place and
if they want this to be an annual event. If Council decides
this is an appropriate place and this is an appropriate
function, then they can work out some of the details.
Councilman Roberts feels this event will never get as big as
Pub 44. They don't have the property.
Mayor Allman stated they have a business that is going to
have the motorcycles there whether Council approves it or
not. The band is going to be playing whether Council
approves it or not. The pudding wrestling can be stopped.
Councilman Roberts feels there has to be some sort of
compromise. If this is a trial basis, why not try it
without the extended hours, a certain amount needs to be
paid in fees, and there needs to be good supervision by the
Police Department. He suggested daily inspections and felt
there had to be some kind of control in case things get out
of hand to protect the public interest.
Mayor Allman feels you aren't going to appease everyone.
Page -7-
Council Regular Meeting
October 5, 1998
~
~
Mr. Gianino asked for a staff report on this, which Interim
City Manager Hooper explained.
Councilwoman Lichter feels they need to feel this out.
Councilman Roberts feels it is in the best interest of the
owner's of the business to keep it under control because if
it does not go smooth obviously next year the City isn't
going to want it to happen.
Councilwoman Lichter asked if they are planning this once a
year or twice a year. Mr. Girvan informed her twice a year,
during Biketoberfest and Bike Week.
Mr. Anderson thinks they should be thinking about how this
kind of business benefits the average citizen of this City.
He feels most of the people of the community won't be using
this facility.
Ben DelNigro, 3130 Tamarind Drive, feels Councilman Roberts
is more concerned with the money we are going to be making
rather than how the citizens are going to feel about this.
councilman Gornto made a motion to deny the special activity
application, second by Councilman Hammond.
The motion CARRIED 5-0.
Councilman Roberts asked if they have any stipulations as
far as being able to cut off the permit if there are any
problems.
Interim City Manager Hooper explained if Council wants a
daily inspection, they need to direct staff to do so. He
informed Council of 17 conditions listed in the agenda
package. He further commented on Council being able to
include additional conditions.
There was a ten-minute recess at this time.
Councilman Gornto made a motion to table any further
discussion of this to the end of the meeting and finish all
the other agenda items, second by Councilman Hammond. The
motion CARRIED 4-1. Councilwoman Lichter voted NO.
C. Water Bill Fees - Mr. Merrick appealinq the accrual of
minimum month Iv water and sewaqe disposal charqes for
an unoccupied dwellinq. and seekinq a reduction in the
amount due
Interim City Manager Hooper presented the background
information for this request.
James Merrick made a presentation regarding bills he was
receiving he thought were a mistake because each bill would
say if not paid, the water would be cut off and the meter
had been gone for years. He was not made aware that this is
a continuous thing. He doesn't think it is fair for him to
have to pay it under those conditions. If he would have
known, he would have kept the water on since he has to pay
for it anyway. He is asking the charges be eliminated for
the amount of time that the meter was not there.
Councilman Roberts stated they have minimum water and sewer
fees. He questioned if the meter was removed and how can
you be expected to pay a minimum fee if there is no meter.
Interim City Manager Hooper explained the portion of the
ordinance pertaining to this. This was changed in 1994
because the City was having a deficit of paying its debt
service.
Page -8-
Council Regular Meeting
October 5, 1998
.....
...,.,
There was further discussion regarding having to pay a
minimum bill whether service is being used or not.
Councilwoman Lichter questioned section 19-11 of the
ordinance regarding meters. She asked if a letter goes out
so the resident knows that without a meter and is it clear
to the resident that they will still be charged a fee.
Interim City Manager Hooper explained it is a bill that goes
out. The same bill, with our without the meter, you are
notified of the accrual and the amount that has been
accumulated.
Councilman Hammond asked Mr. Merrick if he requested the
meter be removed. Mr. Merrick explained the water was cut
off after the first month. Nobody made it clear to him that
he was going to have to pay every month due to there being
no meter and no water service. Interim City Manager Hooper
elaborated on what is done across the board for any utility
customers.
Councilwoman Lichter asked about the agreement made by Mr.
Merrick to pay $196.23 every thirty days. Mr. Merrick made
that agreement based on the condition he could appeal it.
Councilwoman Lichter asked about information blacked out on
the agreement made by Mr. Merrick. She doesn't feel the man
understood what was going on. Interim City Manager Hooper
explained how staff handled this situation.
Councilwoman Lichter asked Interim city Manager Hooper if it
was his understanding that Mr. Merrick would go before
Council even if he signed the agreement. Interim City
Manager Hooper informed her yes.
Councilman Gornto asked if the City has ever waived these
types of fees before. Finance Director Karen Rickelman
explained the only time she could recall waiving fees is if
the building is totally demolished and they have abandoned
their capacity. If they wanted to rebuild on that property
at a later time, they had to repay the impact and connection
fees in order to have that service available to them at that
time. As far as waiving a minimum bill for service, there
are none that she is aware of.
Interim City Manager Hooper asked if they have ever had any
bills of this magnitude. Ms. Rickelman spoke of a recent
case involving Steve's place. He also abandoned all his
capacity for all the units he waived impact fees for.
Councilman Roberts asked why it took five or six years for
Mr. Merrick to bring this before Council. He asked why he
waited so long if he had been getting monthly bills. Mr.
Merrick stated he assumed it was a mistake and it would be a
simple deal to come in and get it corrected. He considered
it a mistake and didn't bother with it. He didn't get any
information telling him what was going on.
Mayor Allman stated with the meter being taken out, he would
be under the impression it would be disconnected also.
Councilwoman Lichter asked if Mr. Merrick is going to reside
at this location or move a family in. Mr. Merrick explained
he had made several attempts to make an office out of it.
Councilwoman Lichter asked if there is a hardship involved
with this sum. Mr. Merrick stated there certainly is.
Page -9-
Council Regular Meeting
October 5, 1998
'-"
...,.,
Councilman Hammond stated there is almost a $2,400.00 bill.
From a city standpoint there are certain obligations. He
suggested cutting it in half or took off a $1,000. He
questioned if something like that would be acceptable. Mr.
Merrick stated that is a lot better than where he is now.
Councilman Hammond asked if Council would be acceptable to
this. Councilman Roberts spoke of other property owners who
pay when their residence isn't being used. It would be nice
to help the gentleman out but they also have to think about
the other property owners and how they have been affected by
the same charges on a monthly basis. Where do we draw the
line?
Interim City Manager Hooper stated anybody that has a $2,300
bill has a hardship. Is it extraordinary and is it
impossible? He can't answer that. But do you set precedent
when you do it? certainly you do. You will have other
people come in. This has been since 1993 and is there a
hardship involved that can be identified to Council. That
is the basis. He doesn't think they are interested in
changing the overall system.
Councilman Roberts feels the payment schedule is set up to
pay it off fairly rapidly. He asked if the payment schedule
could be changed and extended to lower the payments to make
it more acceptable as far as the owner being able to make a
payment.
Interim City Manager Hooper stated staff has no problem with
that. The only reason they chose the short term was to get
him underway. He wanted to occupy the building and make use
of it and that this was going to be on the agenda fairly
quick so the term wasn't as important as the act of helping
him get going with this being an agendaed item for Council
to consider.
Councilwoman Lichter suggested $100 per month. Interim City
Manager Hooper stated which is similar to what has been done
in the past but the Council hasn't dealt with this magnitude
in the past. She agreed with Councilman Hammond to cut some
of the cost off. She is for knocking off about half of the
number and extending the payments if possible. That is a
motion. The cost being $1,196.08 cutting the amount in half
but with no extension of time.
Councilwoman Lichter stated from this point forward she
would like to see what they are sending people when their
meters are taken out of the ground.
Councilman Roberts mentioned other people coming before
Council asking for their fees to be dropped. Mayor Allman
stated you would have to handle it on an individual basis.
Interim City Manager Hooper stated anyone has the option to
address Council and bring in a request as such. He thinks
Council needs to recognize and incorporate in the motion
that this is a hardship based on the fact it is 5 years.
Councilwoman Lichter stated she believes she is making this
motion in that she sees this as an unusual situation and she
feels a hardship is involved that has gone for a long period
of time. She feels if he clearly understood what was
involved when that meter was out, he would have turned his
water on as he earlier stated. Councilman Hammond seconded
the motion.
Councilman Roberts asked if the City has a lien on this
property because of the amount due. Interim City Manager
Hooper stated no.
Page -10-
Council Regular Meeting
October 5, 1998
.....
-...'
Councilman Roberts stated when large amounts are owed does
this, does the City normally have to lien property to secure
the funds in the future. City Attorney Clayton explained on
some matters they do lien. This is not something you lien
because you have control with the service availability.
Mr. Merrick agreed this is acceptable to him.
The motion CARRIED 4-1. Councilman Gornto voted NO.
GENERAL CITIZEN COMMENTS/CORRESPONDENCE
Doris Hill, 112 Lincoln Road, spoke about Councilman
Gornto's remarks. She did read the two letters in a piece
of My Mind that he referred to. She did not write either
one of those letters. She thought the points were well
taken. She has had a lot of problems with this Council and
most of them are due to the fact that she feels the
criticism of the City has come from some members of this
Council. She hasn't heard anybody praise the City up there.
What she has seen is some members of the Council that aren't
governing by our Constitution. We have a Charter. That
Charter was voted in by referendum by the people of the City
of Edgewater. One of the things it states in that Charter
is that our department heads will live in the City so they
will have a stake in the city. That includes the Attorney
and the Manager. She stated the Council has managed very
well to get around that but as far as she is concerned, they
have not governed by the Constitution and she doesn't
appreciate it.
Ms. Hill stated the other thing she objects to is the
Council's choice of an attorney. She feels she came into
this job with baggage and she is particularly troubled over
the meeting that was held when under Attorney comments she
brought up the lawsuit with Mr. Barrett. When she came into
the meeting that night, Mr. Barrett was sitting here. That
came up at the very end of the meeting and he was still
here. She would really like to know when Nikki Clayton knew
she was going to address that under Attorney comments. It
was not on the agenda. And what in the name of the good
Lord was Mr. Barrett doing here that night. Somebody told
him.
Mike Visconti, 316 pine Breeze Drive, stated for some reason
the Council is blaming the News Journal about what happened
at the first meeting of this Council. It took one hour and
fifteen minutes to approve or disapprove of an event for the
No Name Saloon. The night Council took office it took
exactly fifteen minutes.
Mayor Allman stated he is sick and tired of this being
brought up and thrown around. Let's let the court take its
due course. Let's find out what the final judgment is going
to be and we will go from there.
Mr. Visconti stated the previous Council was also voted by
the people of Edgewater and we should have respect for those
Councilman and their appointees. That night the Council
humiliated the City Attorney and the City Manager. Mayor
Allman stated you say it is humiliation. It was done as the
Charter directed Mr. Visconti. We are talking about Charter
government. It was done the way the Charter was directed.
He is not going to speak anymore about this until it runs
its course through the courts. He is personally getting fed
up with other people constantly stirring this up and giving
the News Journal and other people to talk about in this
City.
Page -11-
Council Regular Meeting
October 5, 1998
....
....,
Mayor Allman stated we are moving forward. Let us move
forward. Let the court decide this. He is sick and tired
of people bringing it up, running it through the mud,
running his name through the mud over the last year, when
all that this Council has done is sit here and try and take
this city forward. And you know what we have done it in
spite of people like you. And I am proud of the fact.
Mr. Visconti stated as a citizen of Edgewater he wasn't
proud of what happened that night. Mayor Allman stated a
lot of people weren't proud of that night. As a citizen of
Edgewater, you couldn't be talking on that microphone as
much over the last year as if the old Council was up here.
I have sat and taken everything everyone wanted to throw at
me and I am not taking it anymore. I am done with it until
the courts give their final judgment, he doesn't want to
hear about it anymore.
Councilman Roberts addressed Ms. Hill's comment regarding
Council not abiding by the Charter. The Charter does say
Council has the right to give exceptions to department heads
as far as residency requirement. The old Council did it,
actually with the Police Chief, many years ago. I haven't
heard anybody complain about that.
Ms. Hill stated when they voted on that if she is not
mistaken, that wasn't even on the referendum. It was
understood that the Chief was not included.
Councilman Roberts stated it is in the Charter so the
Council in the best interest of the City can have the best
people they feel will help this staff run the City. We are
abiding by the City Charter. Ms. Hill stated in your
opinion you are, in mine your not. Councilman Roberts
stated you don't understand the Charter then. Mayor Allman
stated she is entitled to her opinion.
Councilman Roberts stated he agrees with the Mayor. We have
been listening to negative comments for a year and it is
getting pitiful. We have done capital projects. The fire
department is getting a new fire house, we are going to do a
recreation program and we have lowered the taxes. Most of
the time when cities do capital projects they have to raise
taxes. He doesn't know what you people want to complain
about. Councilman Roberts stated he used to come to
meetings and listen to Ms. Hill complain about George
McMahon. We fired him because we didn't have any confidence
in him and now you are complaining about our people. Ms.
Hill stated she only complains about the things she doesn't
think Council is doing properly.
Councilman Roberts feels Ms. Hill's views on the Charter are
wrong. If living in Edgewater is so miserable, why do you
stay? He feels we have a great community and a great staff
and that they are turning this place around and we have
lowered taxes and he is planning on doing it again next year
as far as he is concerned. The way Mr. Hooper directed our
budget, he feels it is a real possibility.
Councilman Roberts feels they have gotten government under
control. He stated Ms. Hill and Mr. Visconti haven't had a
positive thing to say about this community for years.
Ms. Hill stated she has had a lot of positive things to say
about this community. councilman Roberts stated he hasn't
heard anything.
Page -12-
Council Regular Meeting
October 5, 1998
......
....,
Ms. Hill stated she hasn't had anything positive to
about Councilman Roberts or the Mayor or Councilman
Don't say I don't care about my city because I do.
about it enough for the past ten years that I come
the meetings.
say
Hammond.
I cared
to all of
Mr. visconti stated he is sorry Councilman Roberts feels
this way. He does have interest in the City. If you notice
in the past four of the six years he has lived here, he has
been a member of the Beautification Committee and tried to
do a good job on that Committee for this city. He commends
the Council for what they have done in the past year but the
damage has already been done and a lot of damage has been
done to the City. He has no animosity against anyone on the
Council. He is just trying to be a citizen of this
community. He has attended 85% of the Council meetings in
the past six years.
Mitch Cole, New Smyrna Beach Rotary Club, spoke of the great
improvement in the Building Department. He has been in this
area for 25 years and probably the biggest improvement of
any city he knows in the last two years has been the City's
Building Department.
Mr. Cole spoke about the carnival they have sponsored in the
past. The~ would like to hold the carnival again on October
28th - 31 t. The carnival owners need to know by tomorrow
night or they are going to try and find another booking.
They will have all of the necessary paperwork in by the next
meeting if they could at least address it enough tonight so
he could let them know something by tomorrow night. All of
the money we raise goes toward scholarships and community
activities at the high school. The last 25 years the Rotary
has given a scholarship away and 60% of that scholarship has
gone to Edgewater students.
Mr. Cole heard the gentleman complain about noise and that
is the first complaint he has heard.
Interim City Manager Hooper informed Council they would be
having a work session with the Planning and Zoning Board on
the 13th. If Mr. Cole wishes, he could make an ap~lication
and get it in and be in front of Council on the 13 h. Mr.
Cole stated if he gets a positive attitude, he could at
least let them know something. This will be the third or
fourth time they have done this. They will use the same
site in the past. Interim City Manager Hooper thinks with
the terms and conditions being followed up on, staff
wouldn't object to that. He stated they could take this up
as a special item during their work session on the 13th.
There was no opposition from Council.
Dick Martinez, 317 Schooner Avenue, stated the Charter does
say the Council may waive in order to get the best candidate
but if you look at the wording carefully the intent of that
waiver, it intended there be a selection process and
applicants. It specifically refers to selecting the best
applicant. There have been no applicants. It has been sole
sourced. He thinks that violates the spirit of the Charter
more than the wording.
Dominic Capria, 606 Topside Circle, feels they need to stop
bickering. Every month is the same thing. He agrees they
should have applicants. He gave Mayor Allman credit because
in the past they couldn't get up to the microphone and talk
the way they talked without being knocked down. He feels
all they are doing is giving fuel to the News Journal month
after month.
Page -13-
Council Regular Meeting
October 5, 1998
~
....,
OFFICER REPORTS
city Clerk Wadsworth had nothing at this time.
City Attorney Clayton had nothing at this time.
Interim City Manager Hooper informed Council of a joint
meeting with the Planning and Zoning Board scheduled for
October 13th at 6:30 p.m. The purpose is to discuss Land
Development Code updates. They will discuss problems they
have with the current Land Development Code, types and
concepts of things Council wants to do as well as the
Planning and Zoning Board. Staff, Carl Gosline and himself
will be talking to Council of options that other cities do
and have in their codes.
Interim City Manager Hooper stated on October 19th, McKim &
Creed has requested to come and update the Recreational
Complex Master Plan. They will describe to Council work
done to date with feedback from Council and then going back.
They are requesting a work session October 19th at 6:00
p.m. There has been a great deal of discussion about the
YMCA and if Council wishes that is an appropriate time to
have them here and understand the constraints and
configuration of the site.
Interim City Manager Hooper informed Council of a meeting
last week with DBCC at the Daytona Campus, consisting of
himself, City Attorney Clayton, and the YMCA. He apologized
that Council didn't know in advance but he thought he had
described that on and off at times, they were having a
meeting with staff, there had been some discussion as to
whether it would be posted and have all of the elected
officials there. He spoke about what was discussed at the
meeting. If DBCC went in with the City for a YMCA, it would
be located on their site. This would be part of the grant
application. He left them with a clear understanding that
he didn't think Council was interested in doing anything
except locating the facility on the 26 acres. They also
discussed the FIND project and how there would be access off
of Park Avenue into the southern portion of their campus.
Interim City Manager Hooper asked if Council would like the
college to come in and address them regarding options.
Councilman Roberts feels it is critical that they stay on
their own property. Councilwoman Lichter stated whatever
they do, she hopes they could afford it and that it would be
their own.
Councilwoman Lichter asked if these meetings should be made
public. Interim City Manager Hooper elaborated on her
concerns.
Interim City Manager Hoo~er updated Council on the Police
Contract. On October 18 , their contract no longer exists.
The employees from the PEA and SPEA have their raises. The
Police at this point are not enjoying those benefits and
they are going to continue to work on that. The first
meeting is set up the week of October 10th.
Interim City Manager Hooper asked if Council would like the
YMCA to come before them on October 19th. It was the
consensus of Council to set this up on October 19th.
Council returned to Item 7B.
Page -14-
Council Regular Meeting
October 5, 1998
W'
.....,
Interim City Manager Hooper stated the application has been
denied and voted on. Is there any conditions in which
Council would grant an application or put certain types of
restrictions on that? He urged Council to look long term
and if they are interested in that location for that
function, is that appropriate for the City of Edgewater and
take that into consideration when they vote.
Councilwoman Lichter feels they should look at daily
inspections. If they give it a positive vote, she would
like to add that to the list.
Councilman Hammond stated someone brought to his attention
during the break, Friday is a school day. He spoke about
the music stopping earlier due to Friday being a school day.
Mr. Girvan stated that is no problem. Councilman Hammond
feels midnight the music should stop.
Councilwoman Lichter spoke of the $600.00 and made a motion
not to extend the hours. Councilman Roberts feels the City
needs to reserve the right to pull the permit if there are
any problems.
Councilwoman Lichter feels they all see this in a different
light. She is giving her best compromise. What she has
proposed is a compromise of her personal feelings.
Councilman Hammond agreed with Councilwoman Lichter.
Interim City Manager Hooper spoke of the insurance policy to
protect the City from liability. He stated City Clerk
Wadsworth described to him in the past, they have used
$100,000 limit requested. The sovereign immunity limits is
$200,000. He feels the insurance should be in the term of
$200,000.
Councilwoman Lichter made a motion to accept the concept in
the application with the modifications earlier addressed in
terms of daily inspections, increasing insurance liability,
not extending hours beyond regular hours, on Thursday night
the music is cut at twelve, failure to meet conditions
result in revocation of permit. This will take place
October 16th to October 25th with events occurring for four
days.
Councilman Roberts asked about the activities on the
remaining days. Mr. Girvan explained all of the events will
be inside.
Councilman Roberts asked if the vendors will be there the
whole time.
Interim City Manager Hooper clarified the outside activities
would occur on October 22nd through the 25th.
Councilman Roberts asked about overflow parking in Winn
Dixie. He asked if they should get some written agreement
from the management of the plaza showing they have approval
to use the parking lot before the permit is issued. Interim
City manager Hooper stated they would be required to do
that. That is part of the condition for the overflow
parking or else they are restricted just to their property.
Councilman Hammond seconded the motion. The motion CARRIED
4-1. Councilman Gornto voted NO.
Page -15-
Council Regular Meeting
October 5, 1998
W'"
.....,
City Attorney Clayton spoke of the question regarding
parliamentary procedure. The process in Florida generally
is that they want you to give reasons why you do what you
do. If you deny something, what would be necessary to
agree. This is exactly what you followed and there has been
no problem in terms of parliamentary procedure.
ADJOURNMENT
There being no further business to discuss, Councilman
Gornto made a motion to adjourn. The meeting adjourned at
10:04 p.m.
Minutes submitted by
Lisa Kruckmeyer
Page -16-
Council Regular Meeting
October 5, 1998