09-10-1998 - Special
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CITY OF EDGEWATER
SPECIAL MEETING
SEPTEMBER 10, 1998
7:00 P.M.
COMMUNITY CENTER
MINUTES
CALL TO ORDER
Mayor Allman called the Regular Meeting to order at 7:00 p.m. in the
Community Center.
ROLL CALL
Mayor Randy Allman
Councilman James Gornto
Councilman Myron Hammond
Councilman Gary Roberts
Councilwoman Judith Lichter
City Attorney Nikki Clayton
Interim City Manager Kenneth Hooper
City Clerk Susan Wadsworth
Police Chief Lawrence Schumaker
Present
Present
Present
Present
Present
Present
Present
Present
Present
INVOCATION. PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE
There was a silent invocation and pledge of allegiance to the Flag.
Mayor Allman recognized Jerry Gardner, a Republic Candidate for State
Representative from District 28.
APPROVAL OF MINUTES
A. Reqular Meetinq of Auqust 17. 1998
Councilwoman Lichter made a motion to approve the August 17, 1998
minutes, second by Councilman Roberts. The motion CARRIED 5-0.
CITIZEN COMMENTS REGARDING AGENDA ITEMS ONLY
Mike Visconti, 316 Pine Breeze Drive, asked for Council permission to
put a map on the wall. He feels he is a victim and that Edgewater may
become a victim. He commented on a packet he presented to Council,
which included a site plan of Meadow Lake Subdivision. He feels the
flooding took place because of Mr. Barrett who put the drain almost two
feet higher than it was supposed to be and it caused flooding. He
further elaborated on exhibits included in the packet.
Dick Martinez, 317 Schooner Ave., representing Citizens for Responsible
Government, stated the question in everyone's mind tonight is whether
the Council and City Attorney will avoid questions of ethics in the
handling of this Barrett case. The Florida League of Cities has asked
the City to appeal the case to the Florida Supreme Court due to the
consequences to cities and counties in this State. Ethically, if the
Council does not refer the suit to the Supreme Court, those
Councilmembers who are presently under a cloud of suspicion revolving
around Mr. Barrett should abstain from voting in this case. He quoted
Thomas Jefferson as saying 'Millions for defense but not one penny for
tribute. '
Ferd Heeb, 115 N. Riverside Drive, encouraged the Council to adopt the
Resolution dismissing the lawsuit concerning the United Taxpayers of
Edgewater. It was a mistake by the City to ever bring a lawsuit against
it's citizens as retribution when they were seeking answers to their
questions.
CITY COUNCIL REPORTS
Mayor Allman stated in an effort to encourage public participation
between the City and families, he thought it might be a good idea if the
City would consider hosting a Pet show during the morning of October
24 t h for the children of the community and their pets.
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Mayor Allman asked for approval to hold the first
and authorization for an exemption by Council for
for the morning of October 24, 1998.
Annual City Pet Show
the use of Rotary Park
Councilwoman Lichter spoke about the costume contest that is usually
held at City Hall and questioned if this would be in lieu of. Mayor
Allman informed her that is correct.
Councilman Roberts made a motion to adopt the Mayor's recommendation for
a Pet Show and Costume contest, second by Councilman Hammond. The
motion CARRIED 5-0.
Councilman Gornto stated he made a brief inspection of the substation of
Florida Power & Light and it appears they have painted the building and
used some type of weed killer, which appears to be working. It looks
like an attempt is being made on their part to upgrade that piece of
property. He spoke about one person that feels the poles and substation
are okay with their reasoning being there are a lot of things that are
ugly in Edgewater. He disagrees with that. He stated there is already
graffiti beginning to show up on the poles and feels they should be
taken down.
Councilman Gornto spoke about three letters in his mailbox when he
picked up his mail this week. One from Mr. Hooper to the News Journal
and two letters from the News Journal back to Mr. Hooper, one from Bill
Hill and one from the Managing Editor. He feels the letter from the
Managing Editor of the Daytona News Journal was an arrogant response to
our complaint. He feels the front-page article done by the News Journal
was a history lesson. He doesn't understand why that article was so
newsworthy that it appeared in the Sunday paper. He asked why it wasn't
put in the southeastern section of that paper that goes to only this
part of the County. He thinks it was an issue where the Journal does
not like the way the lawsuit has come out. They have had their day in
court and it didn't turn out the way they thought it was going to. He
feels the Journal was way out of line with what they put in the paper
and their response was way out of line. He feels the Journal owes Mr.
Hooper an apology.
Councilman Hammond had nothing at this time.
Councilman Roberts asked when bike patrols are done. Chief Schumaker
informed him of their alternating schedule. Councilman Roberts
commented on questions he has gotten from residents. He feels vandalism
occurs on evenings and weekends and was curious if they work evenings
and weekends. Chief Schumaker spoke about four officers that have been
out.
Councilman Roberts asked if signs are posted in the park with the police
number on it. Mr. Corder stated, yes they are.
Councilman Roberts asked what the status is of the FIND project.
Interim City Manager Hooper stated McKim & Creed has received the City's
notice to proceed about a week and a half ago and they received FIND's
notice to proceed last week.
Councilman Roberts asked when the engineering would be in place to where
they could actually break ground on Phase I. Interim City Manager
stated there is not a date that he is aware of but it is a six or seven
month process now. The preliminary design will be brought back to
Council. Then they will do the permitting applications following up on
that.
Councilwoman Lichter stated in the next City newsletter there will be an
invitation from her to meet in the community Center on Wednesday,
October 14th from 6:30 p.m. to 8:30 p.m. Anyone in the community is
welcome.
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Council Special Meeting
September 10, 1998
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Councilwoman Lichter spoke about someone coming up
meeting telling her that dogs are running rampant.
roads in her district and found one dog sitting in
no other canine in sight.
to her after the last
She rode down the
front of a house with
Councilwoman Lichter stated while she was looking for canines she was
also looking for Code Enforcement. She is proud of District 4 and feels
it looks good. She only saw a few borderline cases.
PUBLIC HEARINGS. ORDINANCES AND RESOLUTIONS
A. Public presentation of proposed Settlement Aoreement - Associates of
Meadow Lake. Inc. vs. City of Edoewater
Interim City Manager Hooper presented the history of the case regarding
the Associates of Meadow Lake, Inc. vs. City of Edgewater. Donna
McIntosh, the Attorney representing the City was also present.
Interim City Manager Hooper informed Council he and Donna McIntosh need
direction. Their first request is to allow Ms. McIntosh to do some
title work to determine who owns this piece of property. They will be
back in November to describe that in detail. Ms. McIntosh stated she
would like to put that into a written legal opinion.
Interim City Manager Hooper stated the other item that needs to be done
is some assessment from an engineering prospective. The current
allegations are that there is continued flooding. He would like to
either through the existing contracts or new contracts, take a look and
determine and have a written report back as to whether there is
continued flooding or if there are any issues that need to be discussed
further.
Interim City Manager Hooper stated Mr. Franz Dorn is here representing
Mr. Barrett. After Mr. Dorn makes a presentation, their recommendation
is to direct staff to define the title search on the property and any
kind of condition or research that needs to be done as to whether or not
there is any flooding.
Councilwoman Lichter
and see if they mean
financially with us.
contacted us and have
financial support.
feels they should also contact the League of Cities
that if we go forward they are going to go in
Interim City Manager Hooper stated they have
offered support. He can't answer as far as
Donna McIntosh stated generally these folks don't provide financial
support, they file friends of the court briefs which are briefs that
would support our legal position.
Interim City Manager Hooper explained it is not appropriate at this time
to ask for financial assistance.
Councilman Roberts asked about ownership of the property and if anything
was looked into several months ago when this was brought up. Ms.
McIntosh stated the last time she was here it was her understanding that
she wasn't going to pursue any discovery in this issue but that the
City's efforts would be spent by the City Manager in negotiations with
Associates of Meadow Lake, Inc. Since the settlement offer has come in,
she has begun researching the issue of ownership. Most recently as
yesterday, she presented information to the attorneys representing the
Associates of Meadow Lake, Inc. on our questions about the ownership
issue.
Mayor Allman asked if we have filed to go before the Florida State
Supreme Court. Ms. McIntosh stated all of those briefs are complete.
They have filed an answer brief. The rules specifically prohibit us
from filing a reply brief. We are waiting to hear from the Florida
Supreme Court. There is no time frame or requirement within which they
have to respond to our request.
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Council Special Meeting
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Ms. McIntosh went on to explain if they were to accept jurisdiction of
this issue, we would have twenty days to file our initial merit brief
outlining for the court the legal errors we believe were committed by
the 5th District Court of Appeals. The Associates of Meadow Lake, Inc.
would have twenty days to file an answer brief to our initial brief. We
then would have twenty days after they file their answer brief to file a
reply brief.
Mayor Allman asked if they don't decide to hear this case, where does
the settlement come from at that point in time. Who decides the amount
of money that is going to be paid? Ms. McIntosh stated the case is back
at the trial court level. We are back in front of a trial court in
Circuit Court here in this County and we go back to the issue at hand,
being the standing issue. Did they have a property interest in parcel A
that would entitle them to bring the lawsuit. They would then get into
depositions and find out the facts of the case.
Mayor Allman asked what kind of a cost figure they are looking at to
defend that? Ms. McIntosh stated it is difficult to estimate.
Councilman Hammond stated that is once they find out who owns it right?
Ms. McIntosh stated once they finish their research on the standing
issue, they could attempt to bring that forward as a legal issue also to
the trial court. They could engage in discovery as to the ultimate
facts of the case and also move forward with our position if we conclude
there is not a property interest held by Associates of Meadow Lake, Inc.
in Parcel A.
Councilwoman Lichter asked if it is established that the developer did
not own it at the time this was going on, what happens to the Supreme
Court case. Ms. McIntosh stated the timing of that would depend on the
answer. We are back at the trial court with the case. If the trial
court were to render an opinion, we couldn't reach a resolution on that
issue and we took it back to the trial court it could proceed
simultaneously with what is happening at the Supreme Court.
Councilwoman Lichter asked if the Supreme Court right now is doing the
inverse condemnation. Ms. McIntosh stated they are looking at the
initial legal issue of whether or not the complaint stated a cause of
action against the City. Councilwoman Lichter asked if the person
involved really didn't own the property, how could that go on. Ms.
McIntosh stated that was the first issue the court decided. The court
was presented with both of the issues at the same time. The court found
there were questions of fact as to the issue of ownership and did not
decide that issue in the motion for summary judgment. The court decided
the legal issue on the cause of action, found no questions of fact and
decided as a matter of law, that there was no cause of action stated by
the complainant. We won at trial so the case was over until the 5th
overturned that this year. We won on that legal issue. We didn't
proceed forward on the second legal issue, which was the standing issue.
At this point in time, it is time to move forward with that issue.
There was a brief discussion regarding legal and engineering fees.
Councilwoman Lichter asked if
back on some of these issues.
these changes.
she is correct that Mr. Barrett pulled
Interim City Manager Hooper elaborated on
Councilman Roberts asked if the request for credits on impacts was part
of the original suit. Ms. McIntosh stated these are being offered by
the plaintiff in settlement of the lawsuit but they aren't the original
damages. There was no fixed dollar amount.
Councilman Hammond expressed concern on legal fees and engineering fees.
Interim City Manager Hooper explained he has been working on a case for
the Resort of Saddlebrook for three years and the fees are in excess of
$300,000.
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Councilman Gornto made a motion to allow Interim City Manager Hooper and
Ms. McIntosh the ability to find out who owns the property and bring it
back to Council once that is determined and to look at engineering
assessments of the damages that may be on-going, second by Councilman
Hammond. The motion CARRIED 5-0.
B. Hearina on proposed Res. 98-R-08, millaae rate of 6.44000 and Res.
98-R-09 adoptina tentative budaet for fiscal vear 1998/99
Interim City Manager Hooper went over the budget process. He elaborated
on the adjustments made to the budget and the millage rate. In summary,
the major accomplishments that have been able to be done, the Council
and staff have been able to reduce the total general fund budget by
$754,000.
Interim City Manager Hooper referred to Page 35 - other Governmental
Services.
Councilwoman Lichter stated she is trying to distinguish between
Contingency Fund and Reserve money. It seems like both are extra. What
would the auditors say would be the proper percentage to keep in those
in terms of emergencies for this community. Interim City Manager Hooper
stated every auditor would tell you it sure would be nice to have more.
When you are trying to do a bond issue or get some type of backing,
there is a 15% minimum, which the City has. He elaborated on what the
Contingency Fund is and what the Unrestricted Reserve account is.
Councilman Roberts feels Mr. Hooper has done a great job on the budget
but what he was hoping to see was a drop in the millage rate from last
year's 6.44 maybe down to around 6.3 and in the following years to get
below the sixes.
Interim City Manager Hooper commented on options the Council could
choose. At the end of this discussion, he would like to revisit what
Council would like to do.
Councilman Roberts feels a modest drop in the millage rate over several
years will help the residents quite a bit. As the community grows,
there will be more development on U.S. #1 and in our industrial areas
that will more than make up for what they cut back on the millage rate.
Councilwoman Lichter feels another way to help the taxpayer is to
concentrate and bring in this business and construction, and sometimes
that takes a bit of a buck. She is thinking there is a hole someplace
for a person that goes out and brings business in.
Councilwoman Lichter spoke about building the tax base to lower taxes.
Doris Hill, 112 Lincoln Road, stated about two years ago Mr. McMahon
proposed to Council that the utility bills be taxed in lieu of raising
the ad valorem taxes. She protested it because she feels it is a tax
and a burden to people with families but it passed. She spoke about the
new Council canceling this tax. The City ended up with over $3 million.
She feels they were overtaxed. She asked Council to consider this
because that is something that can be done for families.
Tom Alcorn, Vice Chairman, Economic Development Board, thanked
Councilwoman Lichter for her comment about perhaps they should be doing
something to bring more business and industry into this area. He was
also pleased to hear Mr. Hooper say they are going to reconsider funding
the Southeast Volusia County Economic Development Board and the Volusia
County Business Development Corporation. Both of these organizations
are trying to bring in industry and jobs into our area.
Dominic capria, 606 Topside Circle, stated revenues and expenditures all
seem to come out even. He asked what the City has available on the
Contingency Fund. He spoke about grants that were applied for to help
pay for the cost of hiring more firefighters. He asked if that grant
was approved and if it is included in the budget.
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Interim City Manager Hooper explained they had applied for the grant.
The grant is really set up to try to help cities that are going from a
volunteer situation into a paid professional situation. We didn't
qualify for that.
Steve Dennis, Southeast Volusia Chamber of Commerce, stated he is
speaking on behalf of Jerry Fox from the VCBDC. He spoke of having the
numbers of people that come through the Chamber and VCBDC and the
Council needing to have these numbers at their disposal to work toward
economic development efforts. They will continue to work on behalf of
the City and he feels they have an excellent record working in
combination with the VCBDC. He encouraged Council to reinstate the
funding request for the Chamber and the VCBDC.
James McAulliffe, Riverside Drive, stated at least they didn't raise the
millage rate. He spoke of millage rates in other cities, with Daytona
Beach being the only one higher than Edgewater. He doesn't see where
this so-called City of Hospitality can anywhere come close to the
benefits offered in New Smyrna Beach and DeLand.
Interim City Manager Hooper explained when the budget is presented it
has to balance. We have to show expenditures and revenues. If there
are additional revenues coming in they are put into contingency or go to
reserve but they are showing to be balanced. By Statute that is how a
budget is presented and they are obligated by Statute to present a
balanced budget.
George Ewing, Royal Palm Drive, asked about ad valorem taxes of $2.5
million on Page 19. General Fund Revenues being $5,978,000. He asked
what is included in that. He asked what how much the surplus money
amounted to. Interim City Manager Hooper explained it is unrestricted
general fund reserves. That is money that has been through the system
and accumulated for a number of years from a variety of sources. That
number currently is like a $4.3 million in the checking account today
with the gymnasium and fire station allocated against that.
Mr. Ewing suggested possibly taking the surplus out of the budget. He
suggested taking some of the surplus out of the fiscal year budget and
using the surplus for the gymnasium by taking that out of the budget and
reducing the tax rate.
Interim City Manager Hooper stated they are taking the unrestricted
general fund reserve and moving the money, $1,160,000, to do the
gymnasium, into the budget as well as the money for the fire station
reducing the reserve down to about $2.9 million. As we go through next
year, we have described the worse case scenario in that we wind up with
the 15% reserve. Our number is 16% or 17%. It is dangerous to take it
below that number because you don't have any reserves at that point. We
buy insurance that is going to cover us for any catastrophies. You need
at least two months of total revenue in the bank in case something
happens.
Mr. Ewing would like to use some of the surplus on the gymnasium.
Interim City Manager Hooper explained the $5.9 million has the reserve
money for the gym in it.
Mr. Ewing stated my original question was the $5.9 million, Mr. Hooper
said that was pure revenue that did not include any surplus. Mr. Hooper
stated then he was wrong. That is not correct.
Mr. Ewing stated what you are doing is including surplus in revenue and
it really isn't revenue. Interim City Manager Hooper stated yes sir it
is. The year that you budget the expense you need to budget the revenue
or else you are kidding yourself that you don't have enough money to do
what you are going to bid out.
Mr. Ewing stated he would like to see the actual revenues that the City
is collecting. Interim City Manager Hooper stated it is on the summary
sheet. He suggested Mr. Ewing speak with Finance Director Karen
Rickelman who would show him the answer to his question.
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Council Special Meeting
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Paul Jenkins, Willow Oak Drive, expressed concerns about the water rate
structure and the 10% utility tax on that. He feels it is very
burdensome on families. He asked Council to take a look at this.
Mike Visconti, 316 Pine Breeze Drive, feels in order to bring industry
and people into Edgewater, Edgewater needs to be beautified.
Councilwoman Lichter made a motion to put back into the budget the
Chamber of Commerce, VCOG and the VCBDC, second by Councilman Gornto.
Councilman Roberts asked if this would come out of reserve funds.
Interim City Manager Hooper informed him yes.
The motion CARRIED 5-0.
Councilwoman Lichter would like to see the mural put in the budget in
the amount of $6,000 and place on the racquetball court wall at Kennedy
Park. She showed Council a rendition of what this mural might look
like.
Councilwoman Lichter made a motion to take $6,000 and put it under the
Parks and Recreation budget for a mural to be placed across the street.
Mayor Allman passed the gavel and seconded the motion. The motion DIED
2-3. Councilman Roberts, Councilman Gornto, and Councilman Hammond
voted NO.
Mayor Allman would like to take up a cause. He agrees $6,000 is a lot
of money for a picture but then again it is something that will put a
smile on someone's face. It is something historical and something that
will go a long way in solidifying the divisions of this Council.
Mayor Allman passed the gavel and made a resolution that they take
$6,000 from the Beautification Committee's budget and use it toward the
painting of a mural to be done under the guise of Councilwoman Lichter.
He feels it is important to this City that they do this.
Councilman Gornto seconded the motion. The motion CARRIED 5-0.
Interim City Manager Hooper informed them the Council has to vote on
Res. 98-R-09 and announce the millage rate of 6.4400 per $1,000 assessed
value, which is a decrease of .56 percent below the roll back rate.
Councilman Gornto stated they still haven't addressed the repaving and
paving of streets. If they pass the resolution before them, they could
still come back and tell them how much they could put into roads and
still reduce the millage down to the area that Councilman Roberts has
discussed which is 6.30. Interim City Manager Hooper informed him yes
sir. If they get through here, they adopt the tentative budget and
announce the millage, which gets them to the next public hearing. Then
he will be asking for things Council wants him to look at. There was
$75,000 originally in the budget and that number has been deleted from
the budget, but there are some funds there. At the last public hearing
is where they can address options.
Mayor Allman read Res. 98-R-09.
Interim City Manager Hooper, as amended, added $24,545.00 for the
Chamber of Commerce, vCOG, and VCBDC.
Councilman Roberts asked if they vote to accept this resolution strictly
for the budget, will it freeze the millage rate. Interim City Manager
Hooper explained the millage rate can come down at any time between now
and the 24th. It can not go up.
Councilman Gornto made a motion to adopt Res. 98-R-09, second by
Councilman Hammond.
The motion CARRIED 5-0.
Mayor Allman read Res. 98-R-08.
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Council Special Meeting
September 10, 1998
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Interim City Manager Hooper stated all he is doing is announcing this
tonight instead of adopting. They will receive the one to adopt in two
weeks.
There was a ten-minute recess at this time.
The Council went back to discuss Item 5A.
C. Consider Res. 98-R-07 amendina the definition of the 1995 Pro;ect -
to include construction of additional capital improvements approved
bv Council
Interim City Manager Hooper made a staff presentation.
this is a resolution that is going to move the balance,
over from the paving program, $586,440.
He explained
the funds left
Mayor Allman read Res. 98-R-07 and opened the public hearing.
Due to there being no comments at this time, Mayor Allman closed the
public hearing.
Councilman Gornto made a motion to approve Res. 98-R-07, second by
Councilman Hammond. The motion CARRIED 5-0.
D. First Readina - Ord. 98-0-06 repealina Emeraencv Ord. 98-0-04
declarina a city-wide ban on open air burnina and use of fireworks
bv the public
Interim City Manager Hooper explained Ord. 98-0-06.
Mayor Allman read Ord. 98-0-06.
Councilwoman Lichter asked if such a ban is always on in cities or do
they have no restriction on open air burning and fireworks. Acting Fire
Chief Tracey Barlow stated currently, we do have an ordinance that
limits open burning in the City of Edgewater. With the repealing of
this ordinance, it will allow us to issue burn permits.
City Attorney Clayton spoke of the emergency ordinance issued statewide
by the Governor. This is only to clean up the one emergency ordinance,
not to affect anything else.
Councilman Roberts made a motion to approve Ord. 98-0-06, second by
Councilwoman Lichter. The motion CARRIED 5-0.
CONSENT AGENDA
A. Reauest from the Southeast Volusia Humane Society to use City
vehicle(s) for its Annual Haunted Hounds Havride on October 30th and
31st, 1998
Councilwoman Lichter moved for approval, second by Councilman Hammond.
The motion CARRIED 5-0.
B. Reauestina approval of Water and Sewer Renewal and Replacement
Expenditures for FY 1998
Interim City Manager Hooper made a brief staff presentation.
Councilman Gornto moved for approval, second by Councilman Hammond. The
motion CARRIED 5-0.
C. Reauestina approval for payment of $6,900 to Communications
Enaineerina Technoloav, Inc. (CET) for work related to POstina,
updatina and maintainina the assessment rolls of the Sewer and Road
data base
Interim City Manager Hooper elaborated on this request.
Councilman Gornto moved for approval, second by Councilman Hammond. The
motion CARRIED 5-0.
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D. Reauestina approval of the renewal of the Florida Health Care HMO
Plan and the Guardian Life and Dental Group Plan
Interim City Manager Hooper made a brief staff presentation.
Councilwoman Lichter questioned there being been any comments from
employees.
Councilman Hammond moved for approval, second by Councilman Gornto. The
motion CARRIED 5-0.
E. Reauestina approval of contractina with The Gosline Companv for the
develooment of the Land Development Code
Interim City Manager Hooper made a brief staff presentation.
Councilwoman Gornto moved for approval, second by Councilman Hammond.
The motion CARRIED 5-0.
OTHER BUSINESS
A. pendina Matters/Lawsuits - Reauestina approval for motion to dismiss
Attorney's fees for Keenan, et al. (United Taxpayers of Edaewater\
vs. City of Edaewater
City Attorney Clayton stated this was part of the discussion they had
during the workshop. It was a recommendation she said she would be
bringing to Council. If there are any questions, she would be happy to
go into the subject further. Franz Dorn is present representing the
United Taxpayers of Edgewater. He will provide his joiner in dismissing
their cross motion for attorney fees. She and Mr. Wadsworth have talked
about preparing the responses to the questions that had been raised
which would be classified as the merits of the case that were never
reached. They will provide them in a forum or workshop at the Council's
pleasure as soon as they are prepared. That is not dependent on the
dismissal however.
Councilman Gornto moved for approval, second by Councilman Hammond.
Councilman Roberts feels it is about time they got rid of this. It is
time to get this behind us. The City shouldn't be suing its citizens.
The motion CARRIED 5-0.
GENERAL CITIZEN COMMENTS/CORRESPONDENCE
City Attorney Clayton mentioned there was a memo in their mail with
respect to a point that Mr. Ewing had raised about citizen's comments
that occurs at this point. He raised the point that it should be after
officer reports. She would be bringing this up during her officer
report.
Andy Anderson, Pine Tree Drive, stated he is wondering if the City is
undergoing anymore installation of hydrants. Mr. Wadsworth explained
that is part of their annual budget. They did 27 this year and they
have 30 planned for next year.
Mr. Anderson is concerned where they are because they are in a frame
house and they have to come from another street across a deep canal to
get to his house. He expressed concern about the pressure. Mr. Barlow
confirmed there is sufficient pressure.
Ferd Heeb, 115 N. Riverside Drive, commented on the bi-monthly
newsletter the City sends out. He asked Council to consider
incorporating in the newsletter a clip out ballot in which Council could
ask the citizens for a straw vote on some of the issues brought before
Council. He feels it would have been interesting to see how the
citizens felt about building the gymnasium.
Councilman Roberts feels that is an excellent idea.
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OFFICER REPORTS
City Clerk Wadsworth informed the Council that every year in October the
Florida League of Cities puts on a program called Florida City
Government Week. This year it is going to be the week of October 18th -
24th. There will be an article included in the City newsletter.
City Attorney Clayton spoke about Mr. Ewing's point regarding citizen
comments. The Charter provides that citizen comments should be held
twice and once immediately preceding the adjournment. We have it
immediately preceding officer reports. She would be willing to prepare
a resolution that could make an adjustment if the Council chooses.
It was the consensus of Council to come up with a resolution.
Interim City Manager Hooper spoke about the Consent Agenda. He asked if
Council would like them to put the Consent Agenda on as a new item
instead of avoiding a Consent Agenda.
Interim City Manager Hooper spoke on how the Consent Agenda is handled.
Citv Manaqer
1) For review and comments. proposed Ord. 98-0-TruckRoutes repeals.
amends and restates approved truck routes in the City of Edqewater
Interim City Manager Hooper went over the proposed truck routes. They
are proposing marking these roads as truck routes, with signs being
posted, and they will bring this back in an ordinance format for the
public to comment on.
Councilwoman Lichter spoke about the speed limit on some of the streets.
She is worried about the speed limit being 30 miles per hour by the
school and in places where these truck routes touch residential areas in
Florida Shores. She questioned if this is too fast.
Interim City Manager Hooper stated they can do two things; see what is
out there now and look at the posting and compare that and advertise the
ordinance as such, and obviously they could change that at the first
public hearing, depending on the public input they get describing the
speeding situations.
Councilwoman Lichter wants to be very careful on these narrow streets.
Even Roberts Road to her is a narrow street for the type of service it
provides and the volume of traffic.
It was the consensus of Council to advertise this as an ordinance.
Interim City Manager Hooper stated they would have the first hearing on
the October 24th agenda.
Councilman Roberts asked if there are any streets by Coronado Paint that
have to be looked at. Interim City Manager Hooper agreed to look at
this area.
2) YMCA update
Interim city Manager Hooper presented an update of meetings that have
been held regarding the YMCA. He went over the joint program proposal.
Mayor Allman understands the City would give the YMCA a million dollars,
and then over a five year period of time they would give them a quarter
of a million dollars to cover expenses for the use of our gymnasium for
the kids to play basketball plus the residents would have to pay
membership fees to belong. The City is giving them 26 acres, a million
dollars and a quarter of a million dollars. He doesn't like it.
Interim City
out of that.
facility.
Manager Hooper stated the City is not giving any property
He further elaborated on the expenses to operate the
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Mayor Allman feels they should look at the possibility of downsizing the
recreational center to $450,000 or $500,000 for a gymnasium we can build
on. He feels they should take the other money that was allocated and
put it toward the infrastructure of the industrial park. That will give
us a 50-acre industrial park, up and running, with the FIND project. If
they don't do that, he doesn't know how long it is going to take them to
come up with $750,000 to get that industrial park rolling. He is not in
favor of building a building on City property, giving a million dollars
of City funds and calling it the YMCA. He is not in favor of giving up
a quarter of a million dollars over five years that could go toward
adding on to our gymnasium. He is not in favor of a mortgage being put
on City property that if it should go under, God forbid, the City is
going to be bound to pay for it anyway. He again stated they should
downsize the recreation center, build a gymnasium, fund the industrial
park and let Edgewater take a step forward that way.
Councilman Hammond disagreed with Mayor Allman. He listed reasons why
he would like to see the YMCA in Edgewater.
Mayor Allman spoke about New Smyrna Beach putting the YMCA on referendum
and their people voted it down. He doesn't feel it is good business for
a City to get involved with a private entity.
Councilwoman Lichter feels this is the kind of item for a referendum but
she doesn't want to wait that long to make a decision. She doesn't
think, at this moment, at this hour, with all that has been thrown up,
that they can really make a firm decision. She feels a third option
would be to go for a smaller than a $1 million facility from us and from
them. Does Edgewater at this moment need a $2 million facility? She
feels they do need some of this money for the FIND project. She is not
sure she wants just a gym for basketball. She thinks there is also a
need for seniors to have something in the community.
Councilman Gornto stated he was under the impression that the proposal
from the YMCA was that they would come up with matching dollars and that
it would not encumber the property and if they fail to the run the
program than it is our property and the improvements on it remain ours.
Mayor Allman feels they should take this money and spend it wisely.
Let's get ourselves the gymnasium that we originally needed for the
kids. He doesn't know that $500,000 can't put a senior center in it.
They could take the excess money and get the industrial park rolling.
He feels if they don't do that,it is going to lay dormant for another
five years. We need to build the tax base now.
Interim City Manager Hooper feels if they build a smaller gym, they
aren't going to be happy with it. Mayor Allman stated he is not going
to be happy with the industrial park lying dormant for five years. He
believes they need to do something for this City. We are talking about
helping this City grow and lowering the tax base. By building a YMCA,
that has nothing to do with the City of Edgewater, people are still
going to have to pay $1 million to get it built, $50,000 a year and then
they have to pay fees to use the facility. Let's let this money work
for the people of Edgewater.
Councilman Hammond questioned if the City is going to let the people use
the facility for free. Interim City Manager Hooper explained they will
still be charging fees.
Mayor Allman feels they would be taking people that are less fortunate
than some of ourselves and we are making them jump through hoops so
their kids can go swimming. He is dead set against that. Our people in
this town come first and the people in our town can not afford a YMCA,or
the dues in general.
Mayor Allman recommended they have a workshop on this matter.
Interim City Manager Hooper stated what
decide what they are going to do here.
time of 90 days for them to come in and
money.
they are trying to do is not
We are asking for a period of
show they have pledges and
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September 10, 1998
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Mayor Allman stated they have had this money approved for seven months
on the gym. Basketball season is going to roll around again and our
kids are going to be playing in New Smyrna Beach. We are going to be
sitting on this money waiting for some entity that may not be able to
come up with the money.
Councilwoman Lichter feels it is not the three months, it's the concept
and they have to chew it out if they want to go in with the YMCA or not.
She feels there are a few areas that need to be straightened out. She
feels the citizens should be involved in this decision. She wants to
sit down with them and talk one more time.
Councilman Roberts stated if they do go on their own instead of with the
Y, you can't cut that budget in half and build anything for a half a
million dollars. Mayor Allman stated he spoke to McKim & Creed and they
said they could get it done. He feels this is a chance for them to do
something right on both ends.
Councilwoman Lichter would have to speak to the Engineers to see what
they could get for that kind of money.
Councilman Hammond stated he thinks at this time they are looking for
approval so they can go ahead and have 90 days to look for funds.
Interim City Manager Hooper explained if the Council gives them a 90-day
window and they come in with $1 million, they want to feel comfortable
they have a deal. They are expecting that if you tell them to go and
get the money and they come back that there is a deal.
Councilman Roberts feels maybe the YMCA should absorb the $50,000 for
five years if the City does a partnership with them. He questioned the
cost if we do programs ourselves, and what is it going to cost to staff
it and run it. We need comparison figures.
Interim City Manager Hooper explained there isn't an apple to apple
comparison. Mayor Allman stated if we don't have the money to do it,
then why did they appropriate $1.2 million to build a gym in the first
place if we couldn't staff it. Interim City Manager Hooper stated he did
not say we couldn't staff it.
Councilman Hammond wants to keep expenses down for the City and get
something nice but we don't have to have liability on it.
Mayor Allman stated we thought we were going to get a million dollar
grant to complete the second half of FIND. Now that the million dollar
grant fell through, now we say maybe a window to do not so much on one
and get the other one done because OBCC wants to put their Marine
Biology unit on that property. If we don't do that, who's to say what
it is going to cost five years from now.
Interim City Manager Hooper stated the other option is to try and do
both. We have had one fairly poorly written grant application denied
and had zero follow up from the City. When he was here he submitted
that. He doesn't think anyone went to Atlanta to promote the City. He
thinks it is fair to say they would have at least an even chance of
going back after that money. The object is to do both projects. There
are numerous ways to make both of these projects happen.
There was a brief discussion regarding the loan that would be obtained
for the gym.
A gentleman spoke about the membership structure for the YMCA and the
$50,000 paid to them yearly that originally came about because the City
was going to be purchasing additional programming services.
There was a brief discussion regarding whether it would be cheaper for
the City to run the facility or the YMCA.
Councilwoman Lichter asked about the membership fees in Port Orange.
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Bob Ludlow, Metro Y Board, explained the Port Orange memberships are
broken down differently. The City residents in Edgewater would get a
real low deduction for youth as well as senior members. He feels it is
important to consider this today as a possibility for the future growth
of Edgewater.
There was further discussion regarding the arrangements the YMCA has
with Port Orange.
Mr. Ludlow discussed percentages that families classified under certain
salaries would have to pay. He urged Mayor Allman to come and tour some
of the existing YMCA's.
Councilwoman Lichter asked if the YMCA defaults in some way with its
loan payment, who is responsible. Mr. Ludlow informed her the Metro-
Daytona YMCA.
There was a discussion regarding what the name of the YMCA would be
called. They had talked about the name being the Southeast Vol usia
county YMCA.
Interim City Manager Hooper stated let's describe that we are going to
build it if you want it, and then they can come and have the ability to
proof the whole contract.
Charles Gebelein, 1730 Umbrella Tree Drive, asked about the sign on
10 t h Street in New Smyrna Beach that says future site of YMCA. He
asked if this plan has been abandoned.
Mr. Ludlow explained they are still in the negotiation situation with
Edgewater and up there was a prospective site for the YMCA. There has
been no definitive agreements reached on either side.
Mr. Gebelein feels the YMCA should decide where they want to be in the
first place and quit playing games with different communities.
Mr. Ludlow stated they would like to be in Edgewater. They would like
to partner with Edgewater and bring a beautiful facility to this town.
Councilman Hammond spoke about speaking to Mr. Bostic about bringing the
YMCA to Edgewater.
Mr. Gebelein stated he belongs to the church on 10th Street and if it
has fallen through, they don't know about it. As far as he knows, they
believe the YMCA is still in good faith pursuing building the YMCA
there. If this is not true, he would like an answer on that. If the
YMCA isn't going to do it there, how do we know you are going to
actually do it here. He has a problem with the YMCA pursuing two places
simultaneously.
Councilman Roberts briefly listed possible changes that could be made
with the proposal for the YMCA.
Andy Anderson, Pine Tree Drive, asked if he heard someone say it would
cost $150,000 to staff our own facility. Mayor Allman stated no one
said that. Interim City Manager Hooper stated he identified the
$150,000 that was presented last year when they had the additional
revenue that was described for this Council. He spoke of providing fees
for operating and staffing the Fire Station and the gymnasium. They
have $150,000 per year to staff the gym, heat it, and cool it.
Mayor Allman spoke about existing staff, staffing the gym and there
being additional staff when they need coaches and referees.
Mr. Anderson feels it would be worth thinking about going with the YMCA
because they would be staffing the facility.
Ed Keenan, 1905 Pine Tree Drive, thanked Council for approving the
exiting of their case.
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Scott Porta, 211 Dale Street, asked how long the YMCA has been trying to
get going. Interim City Manager Hooper stated approximately two months,
at the most.
Mr. Porta stated the industrial park has been pushed for by the Economic
Development Board and some of the citizens of Edgewater for twenty
years. He feels the YMCA would be profitable and good for the
community.
Mr. Porta would like to see the Council get serious about pursuing the
FIND project.
Mayor Allman asked what dates are available for a workshop. Interim
City Manager Hooper suggested Wednesday the 16th.
Councilman Hammond made a motion to give the YMCA 90 days to get
funding, second by Councilman Gornto.
Councilman Roberts stated in the meantime, McKim & Creed are working on
the master plan. Interim City Manager Hooper stated they have gotten
the notice to proceed and are in the third week of that. They have
fourteen more weeks to complete it.
Councilman Roberts stated then it won't hurt to give the YMCA some time
to come up with the money.
Councilwoman Lichter stated once the YMCA comes up with the money, you
are committed to that project.
Interim City Manager Hooper explained at this point, if you give them
time and tell them to raise the money, there are still many aspects of
it that are going to come back before Council. He cautioned Council if
they tell the YMCA 90 days and they come back with the money, at that
point you are telling them you are going to entertain a good business
deal that is going to make it work.
The motion CARRIED 3-2. Mayor Allman and Councilwoman Lichter voted NO.
3) Update of proposed amendments to the P.E.A. and S.P.E.A. Aareements
Interim City Manager Hooper presented the proposed amendments to the
union contracts. He is still negotiating the Police contract. He is
requesting a motion to authorize the union to hold their vote and bring
this back to Council in the form of a contract.
Councilman Hammond so moved, second by Councilwoman Lichter. The motion
CARRIED 5-0.
ADJOURNMENT
There being no further business to discuss, Councilman Gornto moved to
adjourn. The meeting adjourned at 10:40 p.m.
Minutes submitted by:
Lisa Kruckmeyer
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