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05-04-1998 - Regular "'-'" ...., CITY COUNCIL OF EDGEWATER REGULAR MEETING MAY 4, 1998 7:00 P.M. COMMUNITY CENTER MINUTES CALL TO ORDER Mayor Allman called the Regular Meeting to order at 7:00 p.m. in the Community Center. ROLL CALL Mayor Randy Allman Councilman James Gornto Councilman Myron Hammond Councilman Gary Roberts Councilwoman Judith Lichter City Attorney Nikki Clayton City Manager Kevin Grace city Clerk Susan Wadsworth Police Chief Lawrence Schumaker Present Present Present Present Present Present Present Present Present INVOCATION. PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE The invocation was delivered by Pastor Robert Moffat, Edgewater Union Church. There was a pledge of allegiance to the Flag. APPROVAL OF MINUTES A. Regular meeting of April 20, 1998 Councilman Gornto made a motion to approve the April 20, 1998 minutes, second by Councilman Roberts. The motion CARRIED 5-0. CITIZEN COMMENTS REGARDING AGENDA ITEMS ONLY There were no citizen comments at this time. CITY COUNCIL REPORTS Mayor Allman had nothing at this time. Councilman Gornto apologized for a comment he made that was in the minutes from a previous meeting. He eluded to two forms of government being a strong Mayor form of government and a strong City Manager form of government. He eluded to the previous Council and some of what information he had proved to be incorrect. It was a position of the person he eluded to. He didn't name that person. There were two people that did not run for re-election. The press guessed who he was talking about and named him. He called Councilman Gornto and gave him a good lecture and gave his position and he was incorrect. He apologized to Mayor Hayman for his comments in stating a position that was incorrect. Councilman Hammond talked about a city employee that approached him about a certain condition that was going on. He thought it was wrong. He spoke to City Manager Grace and then the Department Head came to him and explained what this person was doing. It was a little contradictory to what he had been told. He investigated himself and he asked this person who is over mechanical stuff and asked about this one individual. He got a totally different story. Since then it has been said that this one person who told him the truth on it was told theoretically you don't talk to Councilpeople until they talk to the Department Head first. He has an open door and he thinks they have to be liaisons to help out a little bit. He will be there to help. He can't say he can make a difference but he is going to be there to listen. '-" ... Councilman Hammond has received feedback from City employees and he can see why they are upset. He spoke about another individual running a private practice on city property after hours and getting paid for it. As of today, all he has heard is that he was told not to do it again. He believes if any other City employee was caught doing what this individual was doing, he would have been reprimanded, even terminated. He feels there should have been some disciplinary action taken. City Manager Grace explained he got back to Councilman Hammond and informed him what he was doing was approved by the previous City Manager and City Manager Grace stopped it. Councilman Hammond stated he would like to see where the former City Manager would go against city codes. City Manager Grace stated this employee had agreed to go through a licensing procedure so they could essentially do CDL testing for the City on behalf of the City and other local governments. The City Manager agreed he could conduct these tests on the weekend so he got something out of the arrangement. Otherwise he was just devoting his time and effort, personal time to make these things happens. City Manager Grace cautioned Council to be careful because they are getting into issues that under our form of government are essentially the City Manager's responsibility. He is talking about promotion. An individual went to Councilman Hammond who did not get promoted to a position and is coming to complain about that. Councilman Hammond was told this individual was destructive to equipment. He was told by another individual if every employee was like this person, he wouldn't have a job. city Manager Grace stated if you take ten people and ask an opinion of someone, you will get ten different opinions. Councilman Hammond asked why the Department Head would walk in and tell that person not to say anything to him. City Manager Grace stated he is not going to try to shut the Council off from employees. If they want to come and talk about something that is fine. He thinks the key is how the Council responds to some of these things. When it gets into an area that is out of Council's area, he thinks they need to inform the employee they will talk to the City Manager about it due to it basically being his decision as to how he responds to that. Promotions and things like that are a difficult area for the Council to get involved in. Councilman Hammond stated what bothered him was being told a complete wronging of this individual. He stopped in and asked about this individual and received a totally different story. He asked how much more of that is going on. Councilman Roberts feels any City employee should have the right to talk to any Councilperson any time they feel they need to consult with an elected official just like any other citizen in the community. If there are any Supervisors or Department Heads that are intimidating or using any other tactics to scare these people away from talking to public officials, this should not be tolerated at all. There was basically an unwritten gag order when Mr. McMahon was City Manager. People were afraid to approach people that were elected because they were told don't talk to them, staff runs this City, not the elected officials. That stuff isn't going to happen anYmore. If City employees have a problem, they can call him at home. If we have city employees making money off of city property for private gain, that should not be tolerated. We do not have taxpayers dollars being used for facilities for someone to make money off of it privately. As far as he is concerned, that is cause for termination. Page -2- Council Regular Meeting May 4, 1998 "-"" -.- city Manager Grace stated it would be cause for termination if he continued to do that after he was told to stop. If he worked out an agreement and was working under those assumptions, he doesn't think you can blame him for that. He agrees with council and feels it is totally inappropriate and met with the employee and Department head immediately and put a stop to it. councilwoman Lichter feels some of the Councilpeople may not know what is going on. She thinks for the discussion to go on any further might be inappropriate unless they know what is going on. Mayor Allman asked for clarification of what is being talked about. Councilman Hammond elaborated on what he was referring to. He has a problem with this employee being told by the Department Head not to talk to City officials unless it has gone through him first so the stories would be the same. City Manager Grace stated that is something he could deal with. He does not agree with that. If someone wants to talk to Council, that is fine with him. He again cautioned how Council responds to that is going to determine whether chaos reigns in the City or they maintain a City Manager form of government as it is structured right now. Councilman Hammond stated he is not debating on a promotion, the guy took a voluntary demotion. He asked if the Department Heads are going to hold something over the City employees where they can't talk to Council until they talk to them. He doesn't agree with what happened. He feels a Department Head should not be lying. City Manager Grace stated basically what you have is a difference of opinions. You may lend more credence to one opinion than the other but that doesn't automatically make it a lie. Councilman Hammond stated there are a few other people who verify the same thing and there are a few people out there who saw the Department Head come out and say don't you ever do that again. city Manager Grace stated he would deal with that portion of the issue. Councilman Hammond stated if he has anything to do with it he is going to stop it. If City employees want to talk to him, he will make time. How do you build up morale with the City if nothing is done with your leaders. He feels confidence needs to be built up. City Manager Grace feels there needs to be an open line of communication but they have to be careful they don't undercut the leaders. There are going to be controversial issues and tough decisions that have to be made that people aren't going to be happy about and they are going to come to Council. Mayor Allman believes Councilman Hammond is trying to maintain chain of command due to the fact that he brought it to the attention of the Council and the people present. The fact that we have a Department Head out there that is chastising an employee for wanting to talk to Council, that is not going to happen as far as he is concerned. The city employees can talk to him anytime. Whether he is here two years or twenty-two years, he is behind the people that work for this City. This upsets him very much. He may be cautioned how to deal with City employees but he won't tolerate anyone threatening anyone. Intimidation is not going to be a factor in the City of Edgewater. Councilman Roberts wanted to know what kind of response they got from ads for outsourcing services. City Manager Grace stated they have been working on RFP's. They had a meeting this past week with the copy machine folks. They are finalizing the banking service. Page -3- Council Regular Meeting May 4, 1998 '-' .... Councilman Roberts asked if any ads have gone out. City Manager Grace stated at this point they have not. Councilman Roberts spoke about the length of time it has been since certain services have been put out to bid. He feels there is no reason why these ads shouldn't have gone out in short order after this was discussed. He feels the engineering services are critical. This is something that should have been jumped on as soon as they talked about it. It was a unanimous vote by Council to pursue this. He feels these ads should go out by the end of this week and they should have a list or some sort of information by the next meeting. City Manager Grace stated they are trying to go through it and put RFP's together that basically in a professional manner lay out what kind of services we are looking for, what all is included in it and how the selection process will take place. He is not trying to resist what the Council wants to do. He agrees with them that those things need to be put out but they need to be done in the proper manner to avoid delays and confusion in the selection. If you don't do it properly and layout what the criteria is going to be, you can have people file grievances and charges that they weren't treated fairly and those type of things. Councilman Roberts doesn't think it should take 30 days to come up with an ad to solicit services like this. City Manager Grace explained you don't do an ad, you do a request for proposal that lays out the services that you are asking people to submit on. There is a lot involved with banking services. Councilman Roberts feels it is absurd that this stuff has not been looked at for so many years. Right now, we have major projects we are trying to look into and we don't have an engineering consultant or several firms at our disposal under contract. City Manager Grace asked what is out there on the engineering services standpoint. Councilman Roberts stated they are looking at a road program, refurbishing old roads, paving roads that have never been paved. We have a recreation complex that has to go up. He wants to have some sort of safety net. If something comes up, he would like the City to have several firms to consult with if there is a question in any of this. We have the FIND project and the fire house. City Manager Grace questioned having a retained engineer for whatever may come up. Councilman Roberts stated exactly. He would like something done about this. He would like these advertisements to go out. It has been thirty days and we haven't even got anything out in the public announcing the City's intentions to accept proposals. City Manager Grace stated they have been preparing the RFP's and will expedite those as quickly as they can. Councilwoman Lichter gave her phone number and stated if any of her constituents wish to call her on any matter, please feel free to do so. Councilwoman Lichter spoke about skateboards and skateboard ramps not being addressed in the codes. A lady she spoke to fears her next door neighbor is going to put such a device in. She feels perhaps they do need skate ramps for the young people. She suggested giving some thought to this. Councilwoman Lichter presented a report of a meeting she and Mr. Grace attended at the college. This was the Local Government Study Commission in Volusia County. All but two of the sixteen cities in the County attended. This idea is practically being mandated by the State of Florida who wants to see consolidation and coordination of services the cities provide to their citizens. The State is pushing this and there will be reimbursements and moneys available for those cities and counties that participate. The Managers organization in Volusia County is spearheading this. Page -4- Council Regular Meeting May 4, 1998 'w" ~ Councilwoman Lichter presented examples to the Council of what they will be looking into. PUBLIC HEARINGS. ORDINANCES AND RESOLUTIONS There were no items to be discussed at this time CONSENT AGENDA A. Satisfaction of special assessment (pavinq) lien Councilwoman Lichter made a motion to approve the Consent Agenda, second by Councilman Hammond. The motion CARRIED 5-0. OTHER BUSINESS A. Professional services aqreement for desiqn, permittinq and construction phase services associated with Park Master Plan and Gymnasium Complex located off Turgot Avenue (Submitted as draft 4/20/98) Councilman Roberts made a motion to reject this the way the agreement is put together right now, second by Councilman Gornto. Councilman Roberts elaborated on why he is rejecting this agreement. He doesn't find this in the best interest of the taxpayers right now. He feels the contract is well written for McKim and Creed, not for the City of Edgewater. He thinks Council needs some sort of conceptual design to see what they are getting for their money. He feels it is too much money for what the scope of services is. City Manager Grace explained as far as the design portion of the cost, the $98,000 comes out to about 9 percent or so. Councilman Roberts feels the $135,800 does not include full project supervision. He was under the assumption they would hire a firm that would come in and design and put construction documents, specifications and drawings together, permit this thing, build it, turn us over the keys and say enjoy the facility. He doesn't see this in this contract and he can't go along with it, not at the taxpayers expense. City Manager Grace explained this contract does not authorize any work. That would have to be done by work orders which would have more detailed information. He feels a time table needs to be there. Councilman Hammond stated if they approve this as a Council, from that point on it wouldn't come back to Council anYmore. They would be out of it. It would just be City staff and Council wouldn't have any more control. City Manager Grace stated they wouldn't be putting out any kind of bids until Council saw what was being put out to bid. Councilman Roberts feels Council needs to be involved in approving design features in the whole master plan as well as the gymnasium building and not be cut out of the loop and have staff say this is the final plan. This is probably the most important project the City is going to see over the next couple years. He wants to see this project go ahead but not the way this is put together. The project has got to be pursued with the taxpayers money in mind. City Manager Grace asked Councilman Roberts if he had problems with the contract itself or the scope. Councilman Roberts stated the scope of the work for the fee. He feels it should have been scrutinized a little more. He doesn't feel it is in the best interest to go along with this agreement the way it is written. Page -5- council Regular Meeting May 4, 1998 ...... ...., Councilwoman Lichter stated one of the reasons this firm was selected was that they generally came in as recommendations from other communities as being on time. She doesn't feel it would hurt to have a timetable put in there. She would also like this brought back along different steps. City Manager Grace thinks that could be inserted. This document hasn't changed much if any from two weeks ago. One of the things he asked Council to do was if they had problems or concerns to get with himself or Jack Corder about them so they could be addressed. There was a brief discussion about on-site construction supervision. Councilman Roberts spoke about having a calendar schedule with the range of services that would go into that project from day one until c.o. This is a key item in a project of this magnitude. He feels they should go back to the negotiating table and get a better deal for the people or consider another firm. The motion CARRIED 4-1. Councilwoman Lichter voted NO. B. Infrastructure reimbursement agreement for the Florida Inland Navigation District project Councilman Gornto moved for approval, second by Councilwoman Lichter. Councilman Roberts spoke about this being based on FIND's approval of the money being spent and the scope of services on the project and the way the infrastructure or utility fees will be collected. City Manager Grace explained this lays out the understanding between the City and FIND on how we are going to do business on the project. Part of what it says is before we enter into a contract, we have to get their approval. Councilman Gornto questioned this limiting the Council as to who they use in this industrial park. City Manager Grace informed him no. City Manager Grace recognized Dan Webster who is representing FIND. Mayor Allman asked Mr. Webster about what Councilman Roberts said about FIND being able to approve anything that is done beforehand. Mr. Webster stated that is basically how it is intended to work. The City is proposed to enter into a design contract for the design work for the project. That needs to be approved by FIND and then FIND will reimburse the City for all moneys expended pursuant to that contract. FIND will preapprove everything so the City knows it won't have a problem and the City will receive the monthly invoices which should be forwarded to FIND and FIND will send the City the money to pay the invoices. City Attorney Clayton stated Mr. Webster made the comments that had been provided about the document which were incorporated by him into the document so that some of the concerns that the City had had been incorporated. Mr. Webster explained it has been reviewed by the FIND staff and will need to be approved by them quite possibly at their meeting this month. Councilman Gornto stated the actual dredging of the intracostal, are we talking about just the channel or can you drift over into some of the sand bars. Page -6- Council Regular Meeting May 4, 1998 .......... ...., Mr. Webster stated generally it is done in the intracoastal waterway and is done in a detailed survey as to where it is. There may be circumstances where there are side dredges that may be able to be coordinated with a major dredge event. When a major dredge event is going to be occurring and there is something that needs to be done, that can be done as a side contract with the dredge contractor to deal with those areas. Perhaps this could be done through a FIND grant program, which is available to local governments for the City to dredge some of their channels into their marinas. Councilman Gornto feels if they are going to be putting the spoil up here, we have got some areas that could use it. Councilwoman Lichter expressed concern regarding the manatees and dolphins and questioned what the effect is on the wildlife from this type of project. Mr. Webster stated he believes it is virtually non-existent. He elaborated on what they do when they dredge. The motion CARRIED 5-0. C. Contract with McKim and Creed, P.A., for engineering services pertaining to Florida Inland Navigation District V-26 project City Manager Grace stated they had hoped to get the reimbursement agreement and this contract approved tonight. Unfortunately, they weren't able to get this into FIND's hands until late last week. They have submitted a number of changes they would like to make to it. He asked Council to continue this until the next meeting so they can make the changes. At that time we would ask it be approved, subject to FIND's approval on the 22nd. Councilman Roberts spoke about the proposal of $324,900 for engineering. City Manager Grace explained originally it was just going to be the City would be engineering the utility and roads and stormwater. As part of the discussions with them, FIND asked if the city could include the engineering at the containment facility in there as well. This proposed contract includes that. What we did not do was change the $1.9 million budget estimate to include the cost of the containment facility which is about another $1.1 million. So you are actually looking at a total construction of over $3 million. Councilman Roberts doesn't think the City should be involved in engineering a spoil site. He feels FIND should contract directly for that part of the project. He doesn't feel the City needs to be responsible for the physical spoil site through our engineer that was hired. The infrastructure for the water, sewer, and roads going into the industrial park yes, but he thinks the extra money in the contract should be cut out and the City should only be dealing with what it will directly be involved in and let FIND contract out for the spoil site. If something comes up and there is a problem with the collection area in the spoil site, he doesn't want FIND coming back and saying it is screwed up. That isn't going to be our property when it's done. That is going to end up as FIND's piece of real estate. He thinks the remaining fee needs to be situated so they know how much is incorporated into Phase I and Phase II. We may not get federal grant money for this project and he doesn't think they should be spending a lot of money on a phase they may not be able to get into. Councilman Roberts feels the professional engineering fees should be broken down into two phases as well. If we find we can only do Phase I and we have to wait awhile for Phase II until we find other funds, we haven't spent excess money on engineering on a project we can not complete. Page -7- Council Regular Meeting May 4, 1998 .... ....." Councilman Roberts thinks this contract needs to go back to the drawing board as well and have FIND's spoil site selected and Phase I and Phase II separated under the contingency that we do not have Uncle Sam's blessing and money coming in from the economic federal agency. City Attorney Clayton stated the contract is staged in work order fashion so that you don't have to issue further work orders if you don't have follow up phases. However, the sizing of the fee needs to take into account the point that was made. She spoke to Mr. Webster about splitting the site for the spoil containment in a direct contract for design between McKim & Creed and FIND and he thinks that would be a doable approach but the liability concerns her. City Manager Grace explained they included that in there as a courtesy to them because they were concerned that even though they might use the same engineer they are going to have to go through the process the City went through to select and it is going to take them another three months to get through that process and go through the CCNA process and we were trying to work cooperatively with them to help them with their issues as well. City Attorney Clayton stated it doesn't take three months to do CCNA. Mr. Webster explained tax dollars are at play but they will be FIND tax dollars not city. He went on to speak about the issue of whether or not the engineering for the site should be separated from the engineering relative to the remainder of the industrial park. He went on to speak about the liability concerns and there being a side agreement that says FIND will not hold the city liable for any design defects relative to the dredge material site. If the city got sued related to FIND's dredge material site, FIND would defend the lawsuit. The liability issue can be dealt with contractually. Councilman Roberts would like a break down and the cost for Phase I, Phase II and the spoil site. Mr. Webster stated the issues being raised by Councilman Roberts are the same issues they have looked at and the City staff has looked at and we believe that needs to be addressed. It is much better to put a little bit of extra time and effort into putting the contract together today so everyone knows what everyone is doing as this project is implemented as opposed to rushing it along. Councilman Roberts would like to see in the agreement a way the Economic Development Board can have input in this project. He feels this board has to sell this project. They have to go out and recruit corporations to come in and build and invest their money and employ our people. Councilman Gornto stated the other document was silent with regard to electrical utilities. This document says that the engineers will coordinate with Florida Power & Light for underground utilities. He asked if it is a FIND decision to go with Florida Power & Light or if that was put in there because they are now the major provider of this area. Mr. Webster stated it probably should be stated so either Florida Power & Light or alternate electric providers. He had no problem with changing this. City Manager Grace stated he received a letter in the mail regarding the Economic Development Administration Grant with the negative news that we were not invited to continue to participate in the process. That only effects Phase II. Page -8- Council Regular Meeting May 4, 1998 ..... ..." city Manager Grace explained in the reimbursement agreement approved earlier, there is language in there that refers to the EDA grant for Phase II or other financing packages they can develop. They are working hard to find another source of money. councilman Roberts made a motion to table this item, second by Councilwoman Lichter. The motion CARRIED 5-0. D. city purchase of 5 lots on Hibiscus Drive from Edgewater Volunteer Fire/Rescue Association at cost of S37.500 for construction of a new fire station Councilwoman Lichter moved for approval, second by Councilman Roberts. Councilman Roberts asked for clarification of what the City is going to provide there for site preparation and site engineering. He would like the City to work closely with the association. He feels they should do landscaping, even in front of the association's property, so there would be a nicer appearance along the road front. City Manager Grace feels this could be done without committing to it in an agreement. At the next meeting, they want to bring in our engineers on the fire station site and let them show Council what they have come up with so far on the fire station. Councilman Roberts wants to see more for the money out of these people. He felt their fee was high to begin with. City Manager Grace feels this could be addressed as they move forward. Councilman Roberts feels they need to address the firm that is dealing with it. He feels this needs to be a group effort with the association. Councilwoman Lichter explained Councilman Roberts concerns are addressed in the proposed agreement under section 4B. Tracey Barlow, Department of Fire/Rescue, explained the engineers are responsible for overall site master planning which will include stormwater and any stormwater retention areas. The association has an architect on board that is designing the association's site. At the next meeting, Council should have everything as far as the large drawings and the finalized site plan for presentation. Carmel Shearer, President, Fire/Rescue Association, informed Council the building, as now planned, is about 3,000 square feet. Councilman Roberts feels if the association wants to build a larger building, he suggested they build the 3,000 and plan the site with an expansion area figured into the water retention system. Ms. Shearer explained that is why they gave Gee & Jenson the largest footprint they would ever use which would be 9,000 square feet. Councilwoman Lichter asked if they should give some consideration to selling the other parcel of land that will probably end up on the wrong side of the tracks for the most southerly station in the future because thinking of the taxpayer and what they can do with that parcel of land, she doesn't think they need another extended park there. Unless they have something else in mind, perhaps they should activate the plan of selling it to help compensate for some of this capital laying out. City Manager Grace explained he and Tracey have spoken and they recommend it be surplused and sold off. Councilman Roberts asked if that is something where they could pursue that avenue right now or will they have to bring this up on a future agenda. Page -9- Council Regular Meeting May 4, 1998 ~ ~ City Attorney Clayton stated you don't have to have it on the agenda to be able to discuss and move on it. It may be something for Council to talk about within the whole review process when they have the concept in front of them and everyone can talk with more understanding of the issue at the next meeting. From past experience, the minute you declare it surplus, you find a use for it. Councilman Roberts has no objection to selling the property to counteract the cost of purchasing this property. City Manager Grace would put this on the next agenda to formally address it. The motion CARRIED 5-0. E. Edgewater Volunteer Firefighters' Association request for donation to help offset cost of annual Independence Day fireworks display George Barlow, Edgewater Volunteer Fire Rescue Association, informed Council this year is their 50th year of existence in the City of Edgewater and the 50th year of the fireworks display. They would like this to be a real bang up year. They have raised about $5,500 from a boot drive. They have bargained for a $15,000 fireworks show which is going to be twice as good as last year. Mayor Allman stated he read in the newspaper that Edgewater is known for being the best fireworks display in the County. Councilman Roberts feels maybe they could get other cities to contribute also. Mr. Barlow stated they have tried in the past. One of their boot drives has been in New Smyrna and they will have another one in New Smyrna. The actual citizens are donating for it. They also pass a boot around to the people who come to watch the fireworks. Councilman Roberts suggested soliciting the Chamber for funds as well. Carmel Shearer spoke on the hard work done by the association to raise funds. Councilwoman Lichter made a motion to donate $5,000 for the fireworks display, second by Councilman Hammond. The motion CARRIED 5-0. F. Police Chief's request to purchase 23 sets of duty gear at a cost of $4,216.13 using Law Enforcement Trust Fund moneys Councilman Gornto moved for approval, second by Councilman Roberts. The motion CARRIED 5-0. G. Purchase of 1988 Vactor Truck for Stormwater Management Department at a cost of $47,000 Councilman Roberts made a motion to deny, second by Councilman Hammond. Councilman Roberts feels paying of equipment seems out of line. feels there is going to be a lot piece of equipment of that age. Councilman Roberts stated they are saying they need this because of the capital improvements program in the Shores. He asked why this wasn't considered before the project was underway. He feels this type of equipment and the service it is used for, maybe should be contracted out as needed. Page -10- $47,000 for a ten-year old piece He can't go along with this. He of maintenance and upkeep on a Council Regular Meeting May 4, 1998 '-" ...." City Manager Grace stated this is one of the items that was listed along with the rec center and a number of other things when the Council considered what projects they were going to do. Usually when you build a major capital improvement, there is going to be maintenance costs that go along with it. The best he can tell they haven't adequately addressed that. Councilman Roberts feels it should have been addressed when they were coming up with the cost to put a water management system in Florida Shores. He feels this should have been looked at when they engineered all the retention ditches and ponds throughout the Shores and the amount of culvert pipe that was going to be put out there. Councilman Roberts stated the City has one of these pieces of equipment in the utilities Department. City Manager Grace explained it is being used there. Councilman Roberts questioned only being able to use it in one department. City Manager Grace informed him there are Enterprise Fund issues that have to be dealt with because that was bought with water and sewer moneys. If you are going to use it for a substantial period of time for some other purpose other than water and sewer you start running into some difficulties there. He doesn't think you can take it wholesale out of that enterprise fund and start using it for another purpose. He thinks ultimately they are going to have to either buy a piece of equipment like this or contract the service somewhere else. If Council is uncomfortable with this at this point, they will look at this and other alternatives in the upcoming budget process including contracting it out and discuss it with them when they get to the budget as to how to address those issues. Councilman Roberts feels if the City has a couple of companies at their disposal to do these kind of services, you could use them only when you need them and you don't have to keep another piece of equipment running and maintained. He feels this needs more investigation work. Councilwoman Lichter feels it behooves them to approach things in a positive manner. If we have a need for a particular thing and it is substantiated, then let's go about sOlving it in the most economical way without bringing up a problem from the past. She would like to hear from city Engineer Kyle Fegley. City Engineer Fegley spoke about maintenance issues. He spoke about inquiries they have received recently regarding cleaning out residential culverts and cross-drains. city Engineer Fegley spoke about the stormwater management system. The company which he proposed to purchase their piece of equipment agreed to lend to the City at no cost this vehicle for a couple of weeks. He went on to speak about the various methods he has looked at. He thought the best way to address this would be to have the piece of equipment full time. The motion CARRIED 4-1. Councilwoman Lichter voted NO. There was a ten-minute recess at this time. H. Resurface Beulah Drive, Industrial Road, Pelican Lane and 16th Street usin9 County bid for asphalt placement at a cost not to exceed $47,500 Councilman Hammond made a motion to reject, second by Councilman Roberts. Councilman Hammond questioned how they came up with the rating. Page -11- Council Regular Meeting May 4, 1998 ,... ....", City Engineer Fegley explained they physically drove each roadway and did a windshield examination of each roadway. They based this on five criteria being rutting, graveling, corrugations, cracking and patching. He further went on to elaborate on how they classified each road. Councilman Roberts would like more information on these roads such as the age of these roads and where they are in the city. He feels this doesn't tell him what he needs to know before he spends all of this money. He again spoke about needing more information such as if they are in a residential, industrial or commercial area. He then spoke about what is on the roads now, whether it is an old pavement, shell road, and what is underneath the asphalt. He questioned what kind of money they are looking at for all the other roads. City Manager Grace spoke about being underbudgeted as far as resurfacing all of the paved roadways. He stated City Engineer Fegley suggested to him hiring a consultant to come out and do an evaluation of the roads which would cost more money and take more time to do when they know they are bad and need to be done. He hopes they can agree on three or four roadways and go ahead and get those roadways resurfaced. The bigger problem is going to be a problem they won't be able to solve in the next year or two. He hopes to start addressing it in the upcoming budget year. Mayor Allman feels the rating system means nothing to him. Councilman Roberts feels the impact on residents on each one of the streets needs to be considered. He feels there needs to be more data in this report and they need a more thorough evaluation brought to them before they make a decision. City Manager Grace feels another factor that goes into this is if the road is in bad enough shape, you may be in danger of losing the entire base of the roadway which means when you do get around to it, you may end up reconstructing the roadway. Councilman Roberts asked why the report doesn't have a life expectancy on what is there now. He feels this should also be part of the report. Mayor Allman also feels they need a more in-depth report then what they have in front of them before he can go along with this. They do need to get some paving done with their limited budget and it needs to get done in a hurry. Councilman Roberts feels the number of residents affected by the project should be listed too. He went on to list what he would like to see included in the report. city Manager Grace stated in the interest of trying to get something moving fairly quickly, he suggested rather than trying to pull together a whole lot of additional information on all of these roadways, would it make sense if they took the top twenty or so according to this rating system are the worst and put a lot more detailed information together and bring that back to Council. Councilwoman Lichter feels it is being looked at from a preventive medicine viewpoint. She went on to speak about setting a policy to get roads done in a certain period of time. City Manager Grace feels the frustration is that there is a lot more need than we have resources right now. He is trying to find a solution that gives Council the information and he feels some of the information being requested is valid. Page -12- Council Regular Meeting May 4, 1998 ..,. ...., Mayor Allman stated Councilwoman Lichter, you're a school teacher. If somebody handed you a report that looked like this, how would you grade it. This is an F. He couldn't get anything out of this. councilwoman Lichter stated she does and isn't that interesting. She gets a priority list. What should come first and what should go last. She can see that with a certain number that our experts are feeling, the first streets mentioned with an 82 out of 100 negative points need work. with an 82 negative variable out of 100 versus a 15, she knows at least what needs to be worked on first and what needs to be worked on last. She doesn't need to know how many crumbles are in the street. She has a professional in front of her. She does understand graphs and charts. Mayor Allman stated this is not a graph or a chart. This is street names with numbers next to them. We get something from a regular engineering firm, they come out and present it to where he knows exactly what they are talking about and he knows what kind of system they used to do it. This is our own Engineer with the system that we asked for six months ago on what streets needed to be done. We asked for a list and we get this with the grading points on the side to the right. This makes him mad. Councilman Roberts asked why he sees streets listed that were just done in the paving program. City Manager Grace said it was his understanding the list was to be for all the paved roads. To put them on a list and essentially assess their condition. Councilman Roberts stated if something was just done in the paving program, it seems like a waste of time to start evaluating something that is fairly new. City Manager Grace explained if you are going to manage your paved roadways, then you need to get them all in front of you and focus on the ones that really need the attention. Councilman Roberts stated those in Florida Shores that were just paved, if they were done properly, are supposed to be 15-year guaranteed roads. city Manager Grace stated they should be. Mayor Allman stated but they are not, we know that. Councilman Roberts feels they shouldn't have to worry about them. If they do, they need to go after the Engineers that designed that stuff and the contractors that put it down. In the meantime we have a bunch of other roads we need to be concentrating on. The time spent on that is foolish in his opinion. He doesn't feel they should be evaluating brand new asphalt surfaces. Let's look at what is out there are roads that have no asphalt left or that have never been paved. That is what the efforts should be concentrated on. City Manager Grace explained they have to develop and manage these roadways over time where we basically have a data base where we know all the roads that are paved, when they were paved, when they need to be repaved again, and if they do an occasional assessment of where we are, we should assess them. It sounds to him like, when this issue was discussed, he was not here, there wasn't a lot of detail as to what was expected to exactly be in that. City Engineer Fegley explained this goes back to when Ken Hooper was Interim City Manager. Councilman Hammond stated he brought up the unpaved roadways. We said we were going to put the paved roads on hold and concentrate on the unpaved roads that were still existing in Edgewater. That is what he asked for when he almost got his vehicle stuck on Air Park Road. We were looking at all the unpaved roads and prioritizing those and once all those were done, we were going to start prioritizing the paved roads that needed work. Councilman Roberts stated as far as Florida Shores, the only roads that need to be addressed there are the ones that were done during the sewer part of the capital improvements program, not the paving part. Those streets were dug up by the sewer contractor and then repaved in a haphazard manner. Page -13- Council Regular Meeting May 4, 1998 '-' ..., Councilman Roberts spoke about a petition that was received by the people on Mango Tree Drive before the election because their road was only a couple of years old and it looks really bad now. The effort has got to be concentrated in the right direction and we need a thorough report on what we are facing. The motion CARRIED 4-1. Councilwoman Lichter voted NO. I. Request of No Name Saloon, Lounge & Pkg. to hold charitable poker run at 2001 S. Ridgewood Avenue, May 23~ 1998, 7 am to 2 pm and waive administrative fee Patrick James Girvan, 2100 S. Ridgewood Ave., stated he has been negotiating to buy the Casa EI Toro Lounge and they are going to change the name to the No Name Saloon and Package. He will be closing on the 13th of this month. While he was in Daytona, a lady asked if they would be part of a poker run they are going to start for this young boy, Chuck Meldovan, 23 years old, who was hit by a woman who went through a red light. He has been in a coma since 1997 and his mother would like to take him home and due to his size being 6'1" they need special equipment to put at his house. They are going to donate a hospital bed and they are going to use his location and finish it off with free hamburgers and hot dogs. He asked Council to waive the fee for this special event. Councilman Hammond made a motion to waive the fees, second by Councilman Roberts. Councilman Roberts stated this has been approved by Chief Schumaker and Lynne Plaskett. Mr. Girvan informed Council he had the wrong time down. They will arrive at his place around 3 or 4 p.m. By seven or eight o'clock, he is sure they will all be gone. City Clerk Wadsworth stated she has provided Mr. Girvan with a list of the guidelines and he has stated he will abide by them before his permit is issued to him. The motion CARRIED 5-0. J. Appointments to citizen Code Enforcement Board 1) Councilman Hammond appointment due to resignation of Donald Schmidt Councilman Hammond appointed K. Anthony Fowler to the citizen Code Enforcement Board. 2) Councilman Roberts appointment due to expiration of term of Chairman K. Anthony Fowler Councilman Roberts appointed Frank Roberts to the citizen Code Enforcement Board. 3) Councilwoman Lichter appointment due to expiration of term of Frank Roberts Councilwoman Lichter appointed George Ann Keller to the citizen Code Enforcement Board. K. Councilwoman Lichter appointment to Firefighters' Pension Board due to resignation of Fred Munoz Councilwoman Lichter appointed Laura Reilly to the Firefighters' Pension Board. Page -14- Council Regular Meeting May 4, 1998 '-'" .."., GENERAL CITIZEN COHHENTS/CORRESPONDENCE Andy Anderson, 1730 Pine Tree Drive, commented on Item 7G re: the Vactor Truck. He spoke on it being expensive to maintain one of these. He suggested looking at the cost of a new Vactor truck if it is feasible to buy or hiring someone else to do this work. Mayor Allman informed him that is what they decided to do this evening. Mike Visconti, 316 pine Breeze Drive, stated he is very frustrated. He tries to make every meeting and every time he comes they are in a losing proposition. The City was caught napping about those ugly poles. The City is caught napping again with Eckerds. He asked a previous Council not to let that property go. He feels this would have been a perfect spot for a City Hall or the retention pond they are going to put in. He expressed concern with the traffic with Eckerds being there with the widening of S.R. 442. He spoke about the hard work being put into getting the gYmnasium complex, new fire station, talking about a skateboard park. He stated the skateboard park in New Smyrna Beach cost $20,000. Mr. Visconti stated he has been trying to get the City to beautify u.S. #1 for four years. Not one median has been beautified. He would like to get a water truck. He feels if they wait for water to get on u.S. #1 it is never going to happen. It is going to take another five or ten years to beautify u.S. #1. He thinks the people of Edgewater deserve landscaping along u.S. #1. He stated Port Orange has an ordinance that says if you don't beautify, you don't build. He believes the landscaping in Edgewater has a lot to be desired. He feels Eckerds could have gone south of Barnett Bank with the traffic situation much better than it is right now. Councilman Roberts stated that has been looked at in a traffic study and DOT has approved everything they are doing. He would have loved to see City Hall on that corner as well, but the city didn't own that property. Mr. Visconti feels he has been spinning his wheels the last four years he has served on the Beautification & Tree Committee. The Committee is trying very hard to get things done and would like the cooperation of Council, the City Manager, and the Mayor. He would like to get some of these programs for beautifying and landscaping the city. Every time he comes, he never hears anything about beautification. He is looking forward to hearing it in the near future. He feels everything is put on the back burner for the Beautification & Tree Committee. They are going to keep at it and keep coming to council until they get Edgewater landscaped. City Manager Grace informed Mr. Visconti that Council made beautification projects on north and south u.S. #1 as one of their priority items when they had their goal setting sessions. Staff is working diligently to come back with a specific project that will include water and those type of things to put back in front of Council so they have a quality landscaping project they can get off the ground hopefully in the next several months. until they have something put together for Council, it doesn't accomplish anything to put it on an agenda. Councilman Roberts asked when they will expect to see a report with the figures on the cost of doing it. city Manager Grace stated hopefully it will be within the next month or so. Councilman Roberts spoke about reclaimed water not being necessary due to having water lines running through that part of the highway that can be tapped. The expense is minimal for the amount of water that would be used to irrigate an island or two on u.S. #1. There is no reason why we can't see a report within the next couple of Council meetings. City Manager Grace stated they would do their best. Page -15- Council Regular Meeting May 4, 1998 ... ..",., Ron Prekup addressed Item 7E. He spoke about being fortunate in Edgewater to have an association that puts on such a good fireworks display. He thanked them for a great job. He wished the newspapers would help out. He would like to invite New Smyrna Beach to help out with donations. City Manager Grace asked if Council would be interested in sending a letter to New Smyrna Beach aSking them to contribute towards the fireworks display as well as the Chamber. Paul Jenkins, willow Oak Drive, spoke on the condition of Industrial Road. He wonders how the people paying industrial taxes have let the City let that road be that bad. He spoke about the competitors on Hibiscus and Guava with brand new roads. He feels Council needs to give that road some consideration. Mr. Jenkins informed Council of an agreement years ago with the School Board the previous Council did not live up to. He feels Turgot Avenue should be paved because of the residents going back to the school. City Manager Grace stated that is going to be done with the Community Development Block Grant Funds. Mr. Jenkins asked City Engineer Fegley on the break what a new Vactor truck would cost and he said about $135,000. He stated there are only 1700 hours and 72,000 miles. Even though that is ten years old, he is familiar with heavy engines and diesels and equipment like that and that is nothing. He feels 1700 is not broken in basically. He feels that would be a pretty good buy and Council may want to consider it. That kind of equipment with those diesels should go 300,000 or 400,000 miles and 15,000 hours. OFFICER REPORTS City Clerk Wadsworth agreed to put an article in the newsletter regarding donations for the fireworks. City Attorney Clayton had nothing at this time. City Manager Grace updated Council on pension legislation. It passed both the House and the Senate. At this point, the only hope is that the Governor will veto it. Otherwise we are going to have that additional cost to deal with in upcoming budgets. City Manager Grace stated staff has had initial discussion with the County again regarding utility matters in the south area to try and sort out who is going to be providing water sewer versus sewer service in that area. It was a productive first meeting and he is hoping that is something they can get a formal agreement on by the Fall. city Manager Grace asked Tracey Barlow to present a briefing on their Hurricane exercise. Council should have received an invitation and schedule for next week. Mr. Barlow elaborated on the statewide Hurricane Exercises they will be doing. There will be a luncheon on Tuesday at noon and Thursday from noon to 1:30 at the Water Plant. Mayor Allman will be attending the EPAC - Emergency Political Advisory Committee to the County Emergency Manager at 2:00 p.m. on Tuesday. He suggested if they can only attend one day, they should attend Tuesday which will be more of a general orientation. He elaborated on the list of goals established for the departments and community. Page -16- Council Regular Meeting May 4, 1998 ~ .... City Manager Grace stated Tracey has done a good job of grabbing a hold of this thing and he is in the process of updating our disaster preparedness plan and that is going to be a longer term project. It will probably take a year to get it totally revamped the way they want to. He has done a good job pulling department heads together and getting them in shape for this upcoming hurricane season. Mayor Allman feels Edgewater has got one of the best, if not the best, Fire Department in Volusia County with the volunteers and there is no doubt where the Police Department stands. We have got an excellent public safety division within this City and it is something they should be very proud of. ADJOURNMENT There being no further business to discuss, Councilman Gornto made a motion to adjourn. The meeting adjourned at 9:28 p.m. Minutes submitted by: Lisa Kruckmeyer Page -17- Council Regular Meeting May 4, 1998