07-11-1991 CITY OF EDGEWATER
BUILDING TRADES REGULATORY AND APPEALS BOARD
REGULAR MEETING
JULY 11, 1991
7:01 P.M.
The Regular meeting of the Building Trades Regulatory and Appeals Board
was called Order on July 11, 1991 at 7:01 P.M. in the Conference Room of
City Hall by Vice Chairman Gary Butt.
ROLL CALL:
Members present were Les Ogram, Douglas Cole, Gary Butt, and Michael
Nelson. John Ciaffoni arrived at 7:05. Lester Yarnell and Chairman Bob
Howard were excused. Also present were Mark Davis, Chief Vola, and Lisa
Miller, Board Secretary.
The Minutes of the May 16, 1991 Regular Meeting of the Building Trades
Regulatory and Appeals Board were submitted for approval. Mr. Nelson
moved to accept the minutes as submitted. Mr. Cole seconded. Motion
CARRIED 4 -0.
UNFINISHED BUSINESS:
Vice Chairman Butt asked if there had been any changes in Worker's
Compensation since the last time the Board had discussed it. Chief Vola
stated yes, the day after the last meeting he had called the State again to
resolve this and what was told to him was they didn't notify anyone of the
changes in the forms. He added he also asked if the Contractors were
notified and the State said it was up to them to find out. Chief Vola
stated as a result of this he made up a Hold Harmless Agreement and asked
the Board if they had any changes or comments they would like to make on
it. Vice Chairman Butt asked if it was something the City Attorney should
look at. Chief Vola stated he had already sent it to the Attorney, but he
couldn't get an answer. Mr. Cole asked if this was the same form as the
Worker's Compensation Exemption form. Chief Vola stated that it is not,
what happens is if someone came in tomorrow and wanted to open a
business he would have to send the form away to the State for it to be
approved. He added if it takes 4 -6 weeks to get it processed the
Contractor or Subcontractor does not work. Chief Vola stated if the
Contractor /Subcontractor fills out a Hold Harmless Agreement we will
allow him to pull permits under the idea that the information he has
turned in is accurate and there will be no just cause for the State to turn
him down. He added in the meantime if we don't do this the
Contractor /Subcontractor doesn't work. Mr. Cole stated it was to fill in
the gap until the form came back from the State. Chief Vola stated it was
to cover the City and the Contractor /Subcontrator's Competency Card
would expire in 60 days if the approved form is not received back from the
State. Mr. Cole stated the agreement looked good to him.
NEW BUSINESS:
Vice Chairman Butt stated Mark Davis was here to talk to the Board
regarding the Building Allowances on Setbacks. He stated there is house
on 2921 Mango Tree Drive that someone had knocked down the form boards,
they had to be put them back in place, and they didn't get them exactly
where they should have been.
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Mr. Davis stated they were two inches out on one corner and when they set
up the site they intentionally moved in two inches further than what they
needed to be. He added when they squared up the building the numbers
came out right, but he understands now how the figures can come out right
and still pull the one corner. He stated they ended up pouring their
stemwall and it was 2 inches out on the Northwest corner.
Mr. Davis stated he understands the position the Building and the Planning
Department are in because they are fixed with some rigid Ordinances that
say things have to be a certain number of feet from the property line to
meet the setback rule. He stated something that may be a solution is in
some areas he has worked they allow you to have a combination of
numbers to meet the setbacks. He stated if they wanted a total side
setback of 20 feet whether it is accomplished by 8 feet on one side and 12
feet on the other or 10 and 10 is up to the individual contractor. He added
in that way the Contractor can have flexibility in developing the site.
Vice Chairman Butt stated there was no tolerance whatsoever. Chief Vola
stated he agrees there needs to be some form of tolerance factor in the
Ordinance, but with the qualification there be a just cause or reason. He
would like this to be able to be brought before a Technical Review
Committee of the Building Official, Planning Director, Utilities Director
and City Engineer. He stated they should have the leeway to grant a
variance on something that is a minor issue, a minor discrepancy that
was an error that was beyond his control. He added if it was laid out
wrong that is a whole different story, but Mr. Davis' site was vandalized
and that could happen to anyone.
Chief Vola reminded the Board they could not make the decision because it
is a Zoning Ordinance and that is up to the LDRA. He stated the reason it is
on here is he would like to see the Building Trades Board make a
recommendation to the Land Development Board to allow for a qualified
tolerance factor. Vice Chairman Butt asked what was done to correct Mr.
Davis' problem. Mr. Davis stated they took off the encroaching two inches.
Mr. Davis stated FHA has a list on what they allow for tolerances. Vice
Chairman Butt stated it seemed like there should be some way to have a
tolerance factor of an inch or two they could go by. Mr. Nelson asked if
they cut it off because it would take too long to go before the Zoning
Board. Mr. Davis stated yes, it would have been a six week process and
that is why when he was asked to come before the Board he said he would
as he felt it was a practical problem that could be remedied and close the
gap between government regulations and private sector needs. Mr. Davis
stated they allow a 2 foot overhang and planters to be erected after
construction and these are technically encroachments but a 2 inch
infraction on one corner isn't allowed. He stated he liked Chief Vola's idea
of a Technical Review Committee. Chief Vola stated that is in the new
Land Development Code which is pretty much a Comprehensive
Development Code and it primarily deals with commercial, but that is one
thing that could be amended in there to include that Technical Review
Committee for the purpose of minor variances on Single Family and Duplex
Residential Projects. He stated the thing that concerns him is he doesn't
know what kind of a cap to put on the tolerance. He stated the Board
needed to make that recommendation to LDRA because they are not
involved in the Building Trades, they are concerned with zoning, we need
to give them a recommendation of a value to put in.
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Mr. Ciaffoni asked what kind of time factor are they talking about for the
Technical Review Board to meet. Chief Vola stated the Technical Review
Committee could meet on a bimonthly basis, he stated they already get
together for preaps twice a month. Mr. Ciaffoni stated if they miss a
meeting then the Contractor would be held up for two weeks. Chief Vola
stated it could happen that way. Mr. Ciaffoni stated he understood about
putting a blanket on it because some builders would take advantage of it
to the fullest extent. He stated he felt there should be something written
into it to where the Building Department could make the decision.
Chief Vola stated the problem with that is you are trying to give the
Building Official authority over a Code he does not have authority over. He
stated this is in Zoning. Mr. Ciaffoni suggested the Building Official get
together with someone from Zoning and they make a decision rather than
having to go to a Technical Board and waiting two weeks. Chief Vola
stated the Contractor might not get the answer he wants from just the
two of them and it might be better to be heard by a balanced group of
three or four people. Mr. Ciaffoni stated if the Contractor didn't get the
answer he wanted, then he could go before the Board. Vice Chairman Butt
asked if they could just put an inch or two difference into the Ordinance
and let the Building Department check it when they get the replat. Chief
Vola stated they would be right back to the thing they have now where
some of the Contractors would build right up to the fudge factor and that
would just decrease the size of the setback. Vice Chairman Butt stated
there has to be some sort of tolerance. Chief Vola stated he spoke with
the head of the Department with the County and his comment was to tell
them not to build to the setback line. Mr. Ogram stated to make the
setback 10 foot 4 inches and allow 4 inches of error.
Chief Vola stated it doesn't help people like Mr. Davis because it doesn't
give him the option of a reasonable opportunity to appeal something
because it takes six weeks to get before LDRA. Mr. Davis stated if they
were dealing with a homeowner who had sold his house up North and
already made their plans and if they had to move into a hotel or something
because of the holdup there would be a lawsuit. Mr. Ciaffoni stated he
thought the two week period was too long. Chief Vola stated it may be set
up on a weekly basis, that is something that needs to be addressed. He
stated the Board could recommend the Technical Review Committee meet
on a weekly basis and also recommend they allow minor variances for just
cause in the setback. He added the Board needed to give him a numerical
value and asked for their input.
At this time Chief Vola was excused from the meeting for a medical
incident that occured outside City Hall.
Mr. Davis stated when they replatted his site they were correct on all
three corners, there was only one corner that was out. He stated as the
demand for larger houses go into areas that have 75 foot or 85 foot wide
lots and houses in excess of 2,000 sq. ft. with garage in Florida Shores the
likelihood of this coming up on this again is going to happen. Mr. Davis
recommended giving the builder the flexibility of a total setback of 20
feet with a minimum of 8 feet from the line. He stated a 2 inch tolerance
would be good and he understands the position it puts the Building and
Zoning Departments in as to where does it stop.
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Mr. Davis stated the Board was setting up the right criteria for allowing
an adjustment and that is it has to be a justifiable proven cause basis and
there will be certain limits. Chief Vola stated the flexible setback idea
was good especially with the tree protection Ordinance. Mr. Ciaffoni
stated that was the way the County works, they give the Builder a total
with a minimum on one side and this works nice for patios and trees. Mr.
Nelson stated in the County they don't have replats so if you miss
something by 2 inches unless it is obvious to the Building Inspector when
he goes out it isn't caught. He stated the flex setbacks are more in the
area of Zoning Hearings as far as rewriting the Zoning Ordinance.
Mr. Ciaffoni stated he thought they should recommend 4 inches flexibility
in the worst case, but it would have to be justifiable with documentation.
Mr. Cole stated he thought the flexible was a good idea especially for the
trees and he thought 2% was a good idea. Mr. Ciaffoni stated 2% would
allow four or five inches on a 30 foot setback. He stated when you go with
a percentage it gave more room. Mr. Nelson asked if the setbacks were
pretty much standard. Mr. Ciaffoni stated they were 10 on the side, 30 on
the front, 25 on the back, and 30 on the corner. Mr. Nelson stated there
was nothing wrong with setting a set figure of two inches. He said if they
were looking at variable setbacks it would be different. Mr. Davis asked if
Edgewater has completed their Land Development Regulations because if
they haven't this would be a good time for this Board to make a
recommendation to the LDRA.
Vice Chairman Butt stated the way it is now if there was a tree in the
way you have to get a variance before you can do anything and that would
take at least a month. Mr. Davis stated the way it hit his schedule was
that it would take six weeks. He stated if it could be a percentage or
flexible setbacks it would really be a help to the Building Community. Mr.
Cole stated he didn't feel two or three inches would hurt. Vice Chairman
Butt stated there has to be a tree survey now before there can be any
clearing. Mr. Davis stated he does a rough layout of the house, does the
clearing and then lays out the house again. He stated its a lot of extra
work but it is the only thing to do to save the hardwoods and landscape
trees that they want to keep. Mr. Ciaffoni stated they should make a 2
inch variance for hardship. Mr. Davis stated they should define hardship
because everybody has a different interpretation and they should use
specific language. Mr. Nelson stated they were better off not being
specific it is better for them to leave it up to interpretation. He stated
the more specific you get on some things the more holes it opens up
somewhere else and he feels hardship is a good word to use. He stated it
leaves it up to the interpretation of the Board if the hardship was self
imposed or if it was imposed on the person.
Mr. Ciaffoni moved to recommend to the Zoning Board that there be a
flexibility factor of 2 inches for cases of hardship on encroachments and
the hardship is to be determined by the Building Department. Mr. Cole
seconded. Motion CARRIED 5 -0.
Mr. Davis thanked the Board for giving him the opportunity to be heard.
The Board thanked Mr. Davis for his input.
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NEW BUSINESS:
Vice Chairman Butt brought up the agenda items of Edgewater Rent -All
and the 1991 Building Code Effective Date. As these were items of
discussion brought up by Chief Vola, the Board waited until he could be
present.
Ms. Miller stated she had information regarding the changes the Board had
voted on at the previous meeting. She stated the changes were due to go
before Council on Monday night.
Chief Vola returned at this time and was briefly informed of the items
that had been discussed during his absence.
Chief Vola stated he would also like the Board's endorsement to explore
the variable setbacks. Mr. Nelson stated he felt it was a good idea. Mr.
Ciaffoni stated with the trees and everything it would be a good idea.
Chief Vola stated trees would be the chief justification for the flexible
setbacks.
Chief Vola stated about a year ago under Chairman Jack Hayman the Board
had discussed the various Codes and appeals process in reference to House
Bill 553 dealing with the appeals process and resolution of conflict
between the Fire Official and the Building Official and how is was to be
resolved. He stated it was discovered there was a comment in there that
appeals would be heard by the Building Trades Regulatory and Appeals
Board, however when it deals with the Uniform Fire Code or the Life
Safety Code NFPA 101, the State Fire Marshall would have authority. He
added the Board could hear an appeal, but the Fire Official has the
authority to appeal it to the State Fire Marshall. Chief Vola stated as far
as Building Codes and the minimum Fire Code this Board is the ultimate
authority. He added where Edgewater Rent -All is concerned, the business
not the building was sold and at the change of occupancy for the
Occupational License a series of inspections were generated. He stated
there were two or three legal pages of major violations found. He sited
some of the more hazardous violations and informed the Board there were
two apartments above the business. He stated there is one means of
escape out of the building which is a set of stairs in the back that go over
where gas is stored. Chief Vola stated he went over the violations with
the owner himself and explained the hazards. He stated the owner did
most of the repairs and presented the City with a bill for $1 5,000 for the
repairs to his building and refused to put a handrail or modify the
headroom of the stairway. He stated this went back and forth for three or
four months, the owner refused to file an appeal with the Board, and
Council directed him to appeal to the Board if he wanted to get it settled.
He stated that is where the Appeal form letter came from and the Board
has copies of the owner's reply in their packets. Chief Vola stated the
language in the Statute dealing with appeals is very explicit in that if you
wish to appeal something of a minimum Code, which the Building Code and
the Fire Code are minimum Codes, you must appeal that it creates a
hardship and an alternate proposal as to how you will meet the intention
of the Code to meet the health or safety factor that you are seeking a
variance from. He stated Council said we would not make the owner bob
the headroom as it would be a technical problem but Council does want the
guardrail up.
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Chief Vola added to this day the guardrail does not exist and the owner
came to the Fire Station and told the Fire Inspector he was not to come
back on the property, and he did not have to allow the inspectors to come
in and inspect his building. Chief Vola stated this was the owner's right,
however the owner was informed the Fire Official has the right to seek an
administrative search warrant through the State Attorney's office. He
added the owner expressed disbelief that this was true and now he is not
returning phone calls and is being very difficult to get in touch with.
Chief Vola stated where it stands is the owner has it in his mind the City
is requiring him to bring his building up to Code, he doesn't want to do it
therefore if he is going to do it, the City has to pay for it. Vice Chairman
Butt asked if the owner spent $15,000 and is balking about putting the in
the railway. Chief Vola stated yes, as a matter of principle. He stated he
wanted the Board to understand what was going on and as they had been
working with the guy since November of 1990 to get things resolved. He
added short of using legal force he had very few options left Mr. Cole
stated he could see some of the owner's points. Chief Vola stated he did
also and that was why he was trying to work with him. He added he
wanted the Board to be aware of what was going on because they may
eventually be hearing an appeal. Mr. Cole stated he thought the owner of
the business was also the owner of the building when he agreed with him.
Chief Vola stated one of the owner's arguments was how come the City
never made him do it before. He added there was no one here to make him
do it before as the Inspectors in the Building Department were swamped
with new construction, there was neither the time nor the personnel to
perform inspections. Chief Vola stated it was at a stand off.
Vice Chairman Butt stated the next item on the Agenda was the 1991
Building Codes Effective Date. Chief Vola stated the City Ordinance
states the Current Edition of the Southern Standard Building Codes is to be
used and the 1991 Codes were released in May and our people are going to
a seminar on the 25th of July to get the Code updates. He stated the
Department of Community Affairs is in the process of adopting it and
when they adopt it Edgewater has no choice but to adopt it. He added he
would like to request the Building Department be allowed to use that Code
effective September 1st as that would give everyone adequate time to
familiarize themselves with it. Mr. Nelson stated there weren't that many
changes, just reorganization. He added they entirely redid Chapter 11
regarding egress. Chief Vola stated we normally use Life Safety Code as
it is more stringent and State adopted as uniform.
Vice Chairman Butt asked if there was any other New Business, there was
none.
Mr. Ciaffoni moved to adjourn. Mr. Ogram seconded. Meeting adjourned at
8:13 P.M.
Minutes Respectfully Submitted By:
Lisa R. Miller
Board Secretary
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