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02-11-1991 low Niro CITY OF EDGEWATER CITIZENS COUNCIL ADVISORY MONDAY, FEBRUARY 11, 1991 7:00 P.M. CITY HALL CONFERENCE ROOM CALL TO ORDER Chairman Ray Wasarhaley called the meeting of the Citizens Cnuncil Advisory Committee to order at 9:56 p.m. on Monday, February 11, 1991, in the City Hall Conference Room. ROLL CALL Member=. pres<ent were: Chairman Wasarhaley, Mr. Dames Inman, Mr. ).es Mackie, Mr. Stanley Car/son, Mr. Edward Janus Ms. Janet Ptas7ek. Phyllis Woodard was excus.ed. Also present was Lisa Kruckmeyer Recording Secretary- Mr. Perry Barrett arrived at 7:25 p.m. Mrs. Inman arrived at 7:45 p.m- APPROVAL OF MINUTES Ms. Ptaszek stated that in the fifth paragraph under new business it 'should state Florida Power and Light are cutting the trees too much, not people. Mr. Stanley Carlson made a motion to accept the minutes of the January 31, 1991 meeting. Ms. Ptaszek s<econded the motion. Motion CARRIED 9-0. NEW BUSINESS Mr. Inman stated when he was sitting on Council, they ran a - ,tirvey on Riverside Drive and Riverside Drive was one of the original rnads in the City and when they paved this road they fnflowed the tracks that were made in the sand. H stated half of the road is on private property and half of it is on City property- He also s.tated it as .such a mess that Council threw their hands up on it and never did get It straightened out. Chairman Wasarhaley asked what he meant by private property. MT. Inman stated when they put the road in, evidently somebody didn't sur vey it. He stated it is such a mess he doesn't believe they will ever get it straightened out MT. Mackie stated it as a horse and wagon road. He stated he talked to one surveyor and he thought it was supposed to be straightened out. He stated he thought it was straightened out. Mr. Inman stated as far as his knowledge is concerned it wasn't. Mr. Markie stated if the Count y has to put the bike paths in they will be the anes. that will have to suffer with it. Mr. Carls.on stated his question was if Mr. Inman's concern is whether the road is on public or private property. Mr. Inman stated part of it is and part of it isn't. Mr Carlson asked how long the road has been in existence. Mr. Inman stated ne has been here thirty year and it was there before then. Mr- Carlson asked if he knew if Florida operates under Common Law. Mr. Inman stated he believed they do but he'e not sure. Mr. Carlson stated if he's not mis.taken after seven years of the road er path being in exis,tence then the property owner advocates his right to claim that property. %MO Noe Mr. Wasarha/ey stated Florida does operate under Common Law. Mr. Carlson asked how that would affect the bik.e oath. Mr. Mackie stated the road is irregular and when it was zio zaggino down there it went on somebody's property and it took Itart of their property away from them and other places it didn't. Mr. Inman stated the old Council had .a survey. Mr. Mackie stated he knew somebody was brought in. Mr. Inman stated he just wanted to call this to the boards attention and Park Avenue the same way. Mr. Mace state d it did appear in the paper that Par Avenue was owned by the County. Chairman Wasarhaley stated the County must be accepting it or taking it as Mr. Inman stated he believed they are, with the paper work that he has seen, they are accepting the fact that it is theirs. In 3983 or 1984 the City started to put in a bike path on Park Avenue ant the County made them stop it and they have them a lot of restrictions. They wanted to move the telephone poles from one side of the street to the other. They were insisting they put a 4' curb on the edge of it to separate the road from the bike paths. They were throwing so many obstacles at the Council ttat there as no way possible to put a bike path In there. Later on he i'mtnd out that because the City at that time as fighting County on this impact fee that the County imposed on the builders, the impact fee was supposed to go for County roads and the City couldn't agree. The area was divided into four quarters. They were saying if the building was built in the City they had to pay a County impact fee. He stated it was City Attorney Alvarez 's suggestion that they opt out on it. Mr. Inman stated a bike path is needed en Park Avenue. He stated he thinks the City Is starting to pet cooperation from the County. Chairman Wasarhaley stated they had said at their last meeting the first item on their agenda would be to review the agenda packet item by item and see if there was anything they needed to dicuss. Mr. Mackie stated he thought that Mr . Johnson's recommendation for Mr. Over-r-Arr=et had been turned down once before The Committee then went on to discuss the flooding an Date Palm. Mr. Carlson stated he went over the packet material and basically he personally has to qo with what the City Manager has recommended. Chairman Wasarhaley stated there wasn't a of that took a lot of discussion on the agenda. He stated he would be curious what the progress is in the Sign Ad Hoc Committee. Mr. Carlson asked how long the Sion Ad Hoc Committee has been in eistence. Chairman Wasarhaley stated he thought they did away with the sign ordinance in October but he wasn't sure when the Sign Ad Hoc Committee 47- Pape 2 Adv4r,ory r".nmmitte,== IF 1 1, 1991 NNW lei Mr. Carsnn stated he is afraid if they keep on de/aying this that all of a sudden somebody's going to get the bright idea that nnce thy get the signs out that don't comply with the ordinance, it is go inn to be grandfathered in and then there are going to be prnblms. He stated it should be. taken care of as soon as oossihls Mr. Mackis stated they hays ben fighting that for years and they had problems with business people putting up signs. Mr. Carlsnn asked if anynne knew the reason the ordinance was i - Ed Mr ls.nus statd hs belis it happened prior to the last s Hs- stated he he] they wanted to campaign and that was the most obvious way to do so. Chian Wasarhaley stated there were a couple of problems. MrAllister had a sign that thF-y wstnted him ts take on and there were other people disputing it so at that time there was a motion made by Council to put away the existing ordinance and rewrite the ordinance. They were going to set up a committee to review it and rewrite Ms ordinnce. Chai:rman WasarhaIy stated a recommendation should be made to find out the progress of this Sion Ad Hoc Committee. Ms. Ptaszek stsd she thnught the Mayor gave them a deadline of March 1st at ths last Council meeting because they wanted until the end of March and she wouldn't accept it. Mr. Janus stated th is no need to go any further with this until they get the up to date report from Mark Karet. Mr. f:arlsnn stats h didn't think it is the' r:ommitts place. He stated they are an advisory committee so he would certainly think the committee is in order to endorse the City Manager's rerommandation. Mr. Inman stats-d at the February 6, 2991 meeting, the Sign Ad Hoc Committs voted to recommend to give the City Council the reinstatement of the Ci ty existing sign ordinance until the new sign srdinanre is adopted. Chairman Wasarhaley asked if there were any other questions on the Council's agenda. Mr. Inman stated there were several typographical errors in Rection 5D of the Consent Agen0a. Mr. Wasarhaley stated they are using money they saved from doing the shuff1;abnard courts. Mr. Inman stated it's not soms that is going to pet better, it's goiro to get worse. Mr. Wasarhaley stated that is something that needs to be fixed a quick as possible. M-. Janus stated it was brought up to him to bring up to the Committee for a speed limit to be at 20 m.p.h. from Mango Tree Drive through to the school zone during school hours. He stated they ought to note to the City Engineer to contact the proper authorities to see if we could get the speed limits at 20 m.p.h. He stated what they should do is follow up on this and then we an follow up and see these school . .ras and drive through the and if we notice something to check the nut and bring them up in a further discussion. Page 3 Council Advisory Committee Fehruary 21, 1991 NW' *me Mr. Mackie suggested getting metal signs in black and white with ths- speed lts. Mr. Janus stated they have those there. He stated it is for a short distance and then it goes into 30 m.p.h. He stated he would like to put that in motion form. Mr. Mackie seconded the motion. Ms. Ptas2ek asked if it should go as far back as Mango. She stated the problem is that you cant control people's driving and you Earl't control the kids. Mr. lsmus 'tad hs. trin:E th City Fngineer is capable. He stat;=d the ms.mo rines to City Council but you can't burden the City Council with everything the committee has but they can bring up any important issues. He stated for something like this they can request this to the City Engineer. Mr. Carlson asked if they can do that. M Mackie stated what he thinks Mr. Janus is referring to is to send it to Council and the Council will get a hold of the E n gi neer and tell him to cherk that road. Mr. Carlson stated they are an advisory committee. Mr. 'sinus withdrew his mntion. Mr- Carlson stated that wasn't the objection. He asked if they can go directly to someone like the Police Department. Mr. Mackie sated s,nything they should be directed to the Council with the intentions of the Engineer checking it out Mr. Janus stated they have enough on their minds. He stated their job is to help relieve the from some of their problems and help the in every way they can. He went on to say everything they discuss that is going to be an hour discussion for some item then they are not doing their job. He stated he will not sit on the board and have bickering 'no cooperation everything someone says is being torn apart. He stated they are here to help, advise, follow through, come up with new ideas, improve the City, see what can be done, and do it to the best of their ability and knowledge. Mr. Carlson stated the only reason he questioned it was because when the Mayor was at the first meeting she stated not to go into City Hall and ints.rruct the girls from dninn their work. Mr . Janus stated they can not do into City Hall .strtd demand information which will hold them back from doing their function. Chairman Wasarhaley stated they can send a memo to the Engineer to get information. Mr. Janus restated his motion to send a ms.mo to the City Engineer to contact the proper authorities to see if they ran !get a 20 m.p.h. speed limit from Mango Tree Drive to the tracks for a school 2one. Mr. Mackie seconded the motion. Motion CARRIED 6- 0. Mr. Janus stated it was brought to hi attention that along Roberts Road where the biks.hath is on both sides of the street there are bttles, cans and trash and with the children going through there it doesn't set a good example. He wanted to see if they could come up with No Littering" signs. Mr. Janus made a Page 4 Counril Advisory Comitts.e February 11 , 1991 Nei motion that the' committee request a letter te sent to the City requesting "No Litter" signs be installed on Roberts Road. Motion CARRIED 4-2. Mr. Inman stated from the railroad tracks west Is City property. He stated some of the property adjacent to Roberts Road is annexed ints the City. Ms. Rtaszek stated the committee could get a lot of the kids involved and hopefully they can break the habit of people littering. Chairman Wasarhaley stated his only concern is Roberts Road is going to look like sign alley. He stated the letter would be a recommendation from the Committee to Public Works Department for their review. Mr. Janus brought up striping Riverside Drive. He asked Mr. Mackie if this is a County road. Mr. Mackie stated he talked to an official and they couldn't give him an answeT. The official stated it has been under investigation for years and they would look into it and let him know. Mr. Inman stated he doesn't think anybody is concerned whether it is City or County. He stated they should ask the County about striping the road and if they say no ask if the City can do it. Mr. Mackie stated a letter could be sent to the County and see what their answer is. Mr. Janus asked if it is the Engineer's responsibility. Mr. Carlson stated he doesn't believe so. Mr. Janus stated he had some suggestions for the future. He stated it was brought to his attention that there is a city owned dump site west of the horse farm that may be able to be utilized for some purpose like a park area. Mr. Janus stated they could look into the closed businesses on U.S. #1 and find out what is holding people up and stopping them from reopening. Mr. Mackie stated they strip plan it. He stated they build these shopping centers and then people poen stores but can't afford the rent and have to close. He stated that is why Winn Dixie took all of the stores that were left over and enlarged the store. Mr. :Inman stated he has talked to some people that were in business and people that ere planning to be in business and they got hassled from a roup/e of committees in the City and they said heck with it and put their business in New Smyrna. Mr. Inman stated there was a problem on the east side of U.S.#1 with inadequate fire hydrants ln the 1ast year and a half, the City started asking the business people t buy the hydrant. He stated that one an asked if he decided to move his business could he take his fire hydrant with him and someone said no. Mr. Janus asked if it is the owners responsibility to maintain the buildings. He asked if the City has grounds to have the owners maintain these buildings. Mr. Inman stated that the City has been demanding that you put everything in before you can open up your business. pane 5 Council Advisory Committee February 11, 1991 trof 1401 Mr. lanus . we =.hould take thi into cansideration and work with the City Officials. Mr. Jarus went OP to say everywhere you /ook there are abandoned • refrigerators and cars and junk. He stated he's not saying if a sviy has ,=t boat and it is respectable and it is neat there is no r;ense in trying to do anything about Mc. Inman mentioned haats in people's front yards. He stated there is an ardinance against it and nobody does anything about it. Mr. lanu=< stated there are certain limitations and if their place Inok neat your City looks neat. Mr. Carlon asked what the ardinance says. Mr. Mackie ,tated vcu ran put r4 boat on the side or the rear. Chairman Wac stated that should be an ordinance that keeps the place looking nice, not harassing people. Mr. Janus stated at the last Council meeting it was suggested that we may put off paving af - Pe 4;tated he thinks that maybe we r-theuld nn our nwn or with the help of Mr. flverc-- try to find nut the cost of materials and the equipment used to maintain these streets and find out the budget appropriated verses the actual money spent. He asked if It would be cheaper in the future to have these roads paved er if it would be cheaper to maintain it. Mr. Inman stated the reason they don't want to pave these roads is on account of the sewer praject. The Engineers stated they have to put the - dnwn the middle of the road. He stated that is not true. He r-- in New Smyrna Beach, where he used to live, they ran the sewer down the side af the road. He stated it can be done and they are jut blowing smoke. Mr. Carlson stated that what would de appropriate would be to find out what other municipalities are doing and how they - their characters. He stated he is going to call down south and see what they charge. He asked if any of the members go to other towns or if they can call different towns.. Chairman Wasarhaley stated he would call New Smyrna Beach and Port Orange. Mr. !nan stated he would call South Daytona, Daytona, and Holly Hill. Chairman Wasarhaley passed out information en ideas that he had He --vtated the front page is about how they could handle complaints from the citizen=.. He stated an the - page there is a list of things that have been talked about and -. were accomplished. The Cnmmittee then went ever the information that was par,sed out. Chairman Wasarhaley stated he would like the committee to read over the information and they win talk about it at the next meeting. Mr. Inman asked if anyane else had any comp/aints. Ms. Ptaszek stated thereisa lot of controversy going on with the paid and volunteer firedepartents . She stated a lot of people are trying to justify whether they should continue with paid er how far we should take paid. She thinks that Paqe 6. Council Advisory Committee February 11, 1991 4106' 1110 nssds to be jonksd at bsrause if they qo 100% paid it would be a big expense. She rnuld understand during the daytime paid because it is hard for a lot of volunteers to covered because they work at night. C;hs stated it was 100% volunteers. She stated there are now 6 paid during the day and they just got approval tc hire 4 firemen starting in March to cover night shifts Monday through Friday She stated volunteers will get strirtly weskends. She went on to say one of the concerns coming up was they were going to get cut by 60%. She thinks there is going to be a controversy coming up between whether or not they are going tc stay volunteer Dr one day ooino paid. Mr. Inman stated he has hard down the road where the paid and volunteers ware having a little friction. He went on to say he reali7es the fire department is equally dedicated as a policeman I5. Ms. Ptaszsk stated thsre has been some controversy and a lot has to do with t way some people observe. She etatsd they are basically the same because they get the same training. The only difference is they are not paid. She wsnt or to say last year the volunteers covered 56% of the ca/ls. She stated the problem is that they are not allowed all of the freedom. Everyone keeps approaching her because they get the feeling that the volunteers are being moved out for the paid to come in. Mr. Carlson asked what they don't have freedom on Ms. Ptas2sk stat sd the thing he has a hard time with is equipment. Al l of the equipment is basically the same but they have the blue and white rig out front. She stated it is something that has been needed to be replaced for years. Mr. Inman stated that it is only five years old. Ms. Ptaszek stated there have been times when they couldn't go to calls because it died in the driveway. Mr. 3nman statsr that was ne fivs years ago. Ms. Ptaszek stated it has a lot of miles on it. Mr. Inman asked what harpened to the building the Rotary Club built- Ms- Ptaszek stated the paid department took it over as an affLce. Mr. Inman statEti there used to be a medical tea m in there that used to give mouth to mouth resuscitation for anybody. Ms. Ptaszek stated there are a lot of things they used to do and you slowly see it being taken away. She stated she has a hard time as a taxpayer thinking of paying for a twenty four hour 7 day a week full fledged fire department. She stated the training is still available but it's something that keeps getting pushed their way and she doesn't want to sse that happen. Mr. Carlson asked ho many ambulances they have- Ms. Ptaszek stated they do not transport At all. There is a hunt y service that does it. Ms. Janus asked why they ant to get paid firemen in here. Is Ptaszek stated there isn't any reason given to us. She stated she was shocked when she heard that they were bringing four people on at night and they will still respond. She stated last week she heard the volunteers will be cancelled SO% of the tims. Page 7 Council Advisory Committee February 21, 1991 11101 *id rhairman Wetselrhaley asked who that came from. Ms. Ptae...zek stated 1 weis Chief Vola. c:he etate-d ehe doesn't want to see it happen and they do have a good group of volunteers. Mr. rarle.on stated there ie already paid firemen se ther is alretdy an nbligation to them e Me. Pte7ek etRted ehe will agree to the daytime firemen. Mr. retrleon asked if they were an a twenty year active and then retirement program. Mr. lrim e<telted they have a pension. Mr. Cetrleon elekert when the pair! firemen ram n. M. Pt,=1e2ek etated a year age. Mr. r:arIenn etted and the volunteers are already cut by 80%. Me. Ptak sfate- thie jut came up the other night. lt will be when the new firemen come on. Mr. Carlson asked if the preeent Council approved the new firemen. Ptas7e ste not the prese Mr. Car/son et.ted then this would be within the responsibility of this crmmittee to make- eome pretty strong recommendations. Ms. Pt e.tate.d she le elfraid t ee-e it cnming because if it continuee she thinks what ie going to happen they are going to .=.how where the vol te aren't needed. She stated when you get that ynu are- going to e<ee the volunteers get disgusted and not be there- to where they are forced to have coverage and then they are going to have to pay for it and it is going to cost big bucks. Mr. rarlson etated this issue has to be addressed before they bernme obligated to four more men tecauee if you bring in four full time people and try to after that event come back in and try to revert back to a volunteer e.ituation you are going to hear some screamino because men have committed their careers tc the City and you can't come in at that point and say now you're gone because we changed our mind. stated he thinks they should take action before. the event- Mr. Mackie ad if these fellows that are firemen now were firiemen before Dr were they just made firemen in Edgewater. Me. Ptetszek etated the aid firemen now came from the volunteers. Mr. Merkie- statd the Chief is a etr=nee-r. Chairman Wasarhaley stated he is a foreigner. Me. Pte(:s7e stated he is from Port gre Mr. rarleon lieted the firemen Fdgewatr now has. Chairman Waearhaley e.tte-d most sf thewl eit around in the Building Department. Me. Pt.. e,tated di'vring the daytime ehe can e.ee having a couple of people an because it is hard for the volunteers to cover during the daytime brause they work. Page E Council Advisory Committee February ii, 1991 111000 111100 Mr. Inman stated ten years ago it wasn't like that. There was a volunteer fire department That worked in this area He went on to say he has been assoc iatd with the fire department at the lohn F. Kennedy Space Center for a long time. He stated he is afraid if you get a full time pa fire department in there, the first thing you've got is a union. Then you do have problems. Mr. r:arlsnn stated he doesn't think you get the dedication from a full time fire department that you get from the volunteers looking at the experience he's had Mr. Inman stated he will support the volunteers. He asked Ms. Ptaszek if they had a volunteer chief now. Ms. Ptaszek stated they have an association so they have a vnlunteer chief and lieutenant. We have a captain and three lieutenants. Mr. Inman statert so then you have one paid chief and one volunteer chief. He stated one is dedicated, let's put it that way. He stated some times he thinks the fire department had bunker gear for breakfast because they were always asking for bunker gear. Ms. Ptas7ek stated they rfo need bDEnker gear. She stated one of the things she has been 04antino to do is advertise for more volunteers. She stated she is sure there are people out there that would like to join the organization. Mr. Janus asked what amount of people paid would be recommended for daylight hours. 1s. Ptaszek stated what they've got. She stated the problem they were running Into was there were three or four that were always r durino the day because they were the only or a Mr- Carlson asked how it became a transition. He stated the'/ went from al volunteer fire department. Ms. Ptaszek stated it was brought to the one night and said this is what is happening. She stated they were sort of the last nne's to know. She stated the members were in the building that the Rotary built they were knhwn as Edgewater Volunteer Emergency Rescue. Mr. Carlson asked when she says they told them, who is she referring to. Ms. Ptaszek stated the City Manager told the current Lieutenant who, was Chief at the itme. She stated she keeps getting asked different questions and she's tried to look at it and weigh it and personally as a taxpayer she cannot see paying for it. Mr. Carlson asked if they gave her a rationalization as to why. Ms. Ptaszek stated they were told they weren't doing their job. She stated that is where the controversy came between the vo)unteers and the paid. She stated they could not give them an instance but ttey just told them they weren't doing the.- job and that is why the paid was coming in. Mr. Carlson stated the committee should rely more or less pn her output because Ms. Ptaszek is a volunteers. He stated if the Council wishes to hire four people who is he to say no Ms. Ptaszek stated another reason she brought it up is because a couple of Councilpeople have asked her what she thinks and that is why she finds it hard to justify because she sees the statistics •and she knows that they respond. Page 9 Council Advisory Committee February 11, 1991 lotp *tie Mr. Carlson suggested that she tel it the way it is. He asked if there was any publicity campaigned. Ms. Ptas7Pk stated they get thank you letters every week. She statPd the citizens hstve always supported them but she thinks pPople really don't want t see a paid department come in. Chairman Wasarhaley stated he would rather spe an emergency vehicle come in than four more firemen. M. Ptaszs-k statPd she foesn't want it to be just her opinion. Chairman Wasarhaley asked how many volunteers there were before the paid firemen. Mr. lnmn statPd at one time they had forty. Ms. Pt.stsztsk stsLted they had forty berause they were going to increase to 60 because they were bringing some of them over and they dropped down to 2 and now she thin there is 32. F;he stated she thinks the reason they are not where they should be is because they don't advertise to bring people in. Ms. Ptaszek staterl that the first Thursday of the month is a busInPss mPeting and the next three Thursdays is training and they are all going through mandatory training to be there. Mr. Carlson stated you are not gning to increase vo/unteers if it is known that the volunteers are being phased nut. Mr. Janus asked if it was possible to study why the Fire Chief was put on. He stated it seems like the volunteer fire department was doing their job. Mr. Carlson stated when something like this happens there is usually a cause. Chairman Wasarhaley asked who was pushing for a paid fire department. M. Ptaszek stated there were rumors but there was nothing ever concrete. She stated the one reason she joined was because she new they were doing their job and she wanted to fight for them because they are 000d and they are all serious about it. Mr. Janus asked if she recommends keeping the paid firemen on. Ms. Ptaszek stated the daytime she will agree to because it is difficult for coverage. Mr. Janus asked if she suggests that the current force is adequate. Ms. Ptaszek stated she thinks so. Mr. Mackie asked when the committee was going to have their net meeting. Ths. Committee derided they woule have their mPetinq February 28, 1991 at 5:00 p.m. Mr. 3nman stated hP understands the City Manage r has a phone in his car. Mr. :Inman stated be wants to know why. Mr. Carlson stated he had a phone in his car when he was active and he thinks it is very necessary. Ms. Ptaszek stated she thought all of the department heads just got one. Page • Council Advisory Committee February 11, 1991 VOW NWO r. Inman sttci hP is thP rity Manaqr and he should be her running the t: t, and not OUt in the Ear. HP stated one person 1=,tatP he was a goo:71 P.R. an Hc? stated we didn't hire a P.R. an we tired a City Manager. Mr. Macie ased why they dont put a radio in his car. Mr. Inman stated they should give him a pager it is a lot cheaper. ADJOURNMENT There being no fmrther busine.P.P to discuP,s, Ms. Ptaszel: made a motion to adjourn, seconded by Mr. Mackie. M=eting Pidjeurned at 9:10 p.m. MinutiPs suhmittd by Lisa Kruc'kmeyer Pag li Council Advisory Committee February 11, 1991