12-23-1997 - Special
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CITY COUNCIL OF EDGEWATER
RECONVENED SPECIAL MEETING
DECEMBER 23, 1997
1:00 P.M.
COMMUNITY CENTER
MINUTES
CALL TO ORDER
Mayor Allman reconvened the Special Meeting from December 22,
1997 to order at 1:08 p.m. in the Community Center.
ROLL CALL
Mayor Randy Allman
Councilman James Gornto
Councilman Myron Hammond
Councilman Gary Roberts
Councilman Judith Lichter
Interim City Attorney Nikki Clayton
Interim City Manager Kenneth Hooper
City Clerk Susan Wadsworth
Police Chief Lawrence Schumaker
Present
Excused
Present
Present
Present
Present
Present
Present
Present
MEETING PURPOSE
The purpose of this meeting is to complete the City Manager
interviews, finishing with Mr. Tinberg.
Interim City Manager Hooper informed Council of the interview
process and informed them after the interviews, if they are ready
to make a recommendation, that would be the proper time to do it.
The next applicant to be interviewed was Dennis Tinberg.
At this time, Mr. Tinberg was interviewed and questions were
asked by Council.
Interim City Manager Hooper informed Mr. Tinberg what Council
would be doing and that he would be notified later in the
afternoon.
Interim City Manager Hooper asked JoAnn Richard to inform Mr.
Tinberg that he could head back and that he would be contacted
later.
Interim City Manager Hooper informed Council an anonymous tally
sheet, per staff recommendation, is available if Council wishes
to hear it.
Interim city Manager Hooper suggested to Council if they are at a
point where they are ready to make a decision or the number one
recommendation is to give direction to him to negotiate a draft
contract, he would bring this back to Council at the January 5th
meeting.
Mayor Allman feels the longer they wait to make a decision the
more muddled they will become. He is confident that Council
could reach a decision pending a background investigation. He
feels they could make a tentative decision this afternoon as far
as he is concerned.
Councilman Roberts also feels since it is still fresh in their
minds, this would be the time to act.
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Mayor Allman stated staff's recommendation is going to be very
important to him due to staff having to work with the new City
Manager. He asked to see staff's recommendation if they find
themselves caught between two individuals.
Interim City Manager Hooper suggested each Councilperson list
their choices in an order and see if there is a majority for
number one, Council score them, or they could debate among
themselves the pros and cons.
Councilwoman Lichter asked Interim City Manager Hooper if it
would usually be possible to get from three to two.
Interim city Manager Hooper doesn't know what Council would do
any different than they have done to this point. We have gone
through a system that is as clean and sophisticated as you will
see in any large city. He told Council they could do written
discussion, a testing type thing or they could bring them back
for another interview.
Councilman Roberts feels to reinterview to break it down to two
is redundant. Councilwoman Lichter clarified she meant in the
discussion, might they talk about two.
It was the consensus of Council to discuss Mr. Grace and Mr.
Tinberg as the top two choices.
Mayor Allman stated they seem to be two different individuals.
Both of them seem to be highly qualified and highly educated
Mr. Grace's answers were short and to the point. Mr. Tinberg's
answers were to the point but he elaborated a little too long.
Mr. Tinberg had a sense of humor which he feels is good due to
the fact of the morale. We are looking at two people who are
going to be on the best behavior but we won't see the real person
until two or three months down the road. It is a tough decision.
Councilman Hammond felt Mr. Tinberg had more hands on and wanted
to get more involved in each branch whereas Mr. Grace, you have
the right people there and he is going to be watching. He feels
someone that would be involved in each department would be
stretching himself too thin.
Councilman Roberts stated you need a manager to delegate
authority but you need a little hands on. You don't want to just
delegate authority and just walk away from it. He's got to keep
his hands on the reins.
Councilman Roberts was impressed with some of Mr. Tinberg's
answers. One thing about Mr. Grace was he seemed to be the
younger of the three. We have a very young community now. He
can see him growing with the community. To bring youth into the
management circle he feels is important. We need someone who can
relate to the young families that are the majority of the
population of Florida Shores now.
Mayor Allman spoke about having someone young and this being a
stepping stone for him and two years later he could leave. with
Mr. Tinberg he is a gentleman that is single and it is hard for a
single man to set roots with the community. He could be from
Florida back to Massachusetts and not missing anything also. He
also spoke about the community being young.
Councilwoman Lichter does not think you have to be the best
swimmer to be a good coach. She doesn't think you have to be
young to have a mature understanding of what young couples go
through. She feels with a little more maturity in age, it is not
a negative thing, but you can see the generalized picture a
little better.
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Councilwoman Lichter spoke about being a mixed community of
retirees and young couples. What she liked about Mr. Tinberg,
was not necessarily that he was going to interfere with the
department heads, but that he literally was going to get into
this community.
Councilwoman Lichter liked the team approach he used for bringing
in the developers. She feels both applicants are excellent. She
feels Mr. Grace hasn't quite had that city experience. She feels
county experience is a little different ball game. She is
leaning more toward Mr. Tinberg.
Councilman Roberts stated Mr. Tinberg has more experience and a
longer history in management. He spoke about Mr. Tinberg not
being up to date on dealing with growth management laws of
Florida and probably the Department of Community Affairs in
Tallahassee where Mr. Grace has been involved with that up to
date. He feels with Mr. Grace working in Seminole County, it
isn't much different there than it is here. He feels Mr. Grace
is right in tune with Florida growth.
Councilwoman Lichter respects every department head and the job
they do but in the end this falls on our shoulders and in the end
this person has to be their boss. She feels it is difficult to
pick your own boss.
Mayor Allman spoke about being a young Council and without Mr.
Hooper guiding them for a period of time, they wouldn't have been
able to do what they did. He feels Mr. Hooper has done an
exemplary job. He feels they need someone that is going to
continue to guide the Council. Once they start smooth sailing,
they are going to go full speed ahead and they need someone that
knows the direction Council wants to go in and someone that has
been down that road before that is going to help them as much as
they are going to help this City. He feels they need to get it
down to an experience and maturity factor.
Councilman Roberts feels it might be wise to look at what staff
came up with.
Mayor Allman asked how staff voted. Interim City Manager Hooper
stated there were nine individuals that sat through all three
interviews. There were six first place votes for Mr. Grace and
three first place votes for Mr. Tinberg. They all agreed with
Council regarding the third individual.
Interim City Manager Hooper feels Council also needs to think
about the contract. He suggested Council look at a two-year
contract, a salary range of $60,000, and a probationary period.
There was a brief discussion regarding the probationary period
and severance pay.
Councilman Roberts spoke about the difference in the locations of
the two gentlemen. He feels it would be more of a problem for
Mr. Tinberg because of the fact that he lives so far away. Mr.
Tinberg also mentioned relocation costs where Mr. Grace is just a
stone's throwaway. He is leaning toward the idea that Mr. Grace
could commute and see if it worked here.
Councilwoman Lichter questioned how generally you compensate for
a move. Interim City Manager Hooper stated when Mr. McMahon was
hired the city paid twelve or thirteen hundred dollars. He
recommended Council look at a number fairly similar to that as a
flat number.
Interim city Manager Hooper proposed negotiating a contract to
have a probationary period before severance pay kicked in.
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Councilwoman Lichter spoke about Mr. Tinberg looking at the
community and feeling Edgewater needs to be made a place people
would want to come to live.
There was a brief discussion regarding what the three gentlemen
have accomplished as far as obtaining grants.
Mayor Allman is leaning more toward Mr. Tinberg because of his
maturity and sense of humor. He further elaborated on morale and
feels a man with a personality and a sense of humor can keep
morale up.
Mayor Allman spoke about Mr. Grace's youth and feels to go as far
as he has gone in county government, he evidently knows what he
is doing. He is a very amicable young man also.
Interim City Manager Hooper stated there are citizens that have
sat through the interviews and Council may want to seek some
input from them.
Dominic Capria, 606 Topside Circle, presented his feelings on the
applicants.
Paul Jenkins, pine Tree Drive, elaborated on what Council should
look for in the contract and presented his feelings on the
applicants.
Mayor Allman stated the finances make a lot of sense to him plus
the availability. Interim City Manager Hooper's contract runs
out January 2nd. Councilman Roberts stated he is sure Mr. Hooper
wouldn't mind staying on for an extended period as a consultant
to get into a transitional period. Mr. Hooper stated he is
convinced there is some transition to occur here.
Interim City Manager Hooper stated if Council is two to two, they
could tell him to try and negotiate a skeleton contract with both
individuals and outline financial requirements.
Councilwoman Lichter agreed with Councilman Roberts that Mr.
Hooper should stay on if possible to help in this transition set
up. She is not worried about Mr. Tinberg and the Florida Growth
Management laws. She asked if there are any questions they left
unanswered that they forgot to ask that they want to know now.
Councilman Roberts stated Mr. Tinberg may be able to bring in
industry from outside the state. He spoke about Mr. Grace being
in seminole County and about Seminole County landing the
Cincinnati Bell firm with 3,500 jobs to come to Seminole County.
Councilman Hammond expressed concern with youth and inexperience.
Councilman Roberts spoke about Mr. Grace being in the pulse of
the economic growth in Seminole County. Even though Mr. Tinberg
is a well adverse man in management and he is sure he would do a
good job, he keeps looking at what else is happening in Central
Florida. Mr. Grace has more hands on experience with this region
of the country. Mayor Allman agreed with Councilman Roberts
regarding Mr. Grace being in the pulse of economic growth.
Councilman Roberts feels they need someone that is familiar with
bringing people in and not losing people. Councilman Hammond
feels Mr. Grace would be more aggressive.
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Mayor Allman asked what the toughest part would be for Mr. Grace
from being an Assistant County Manager into taking over a City
Manager position. Interim City Manager Hooper feels he is
probably a stronger financial person coming from a County than a
city but he has probably not had the experience with law
enforcement.
Mayor Allman spoke about the financial end of this being where
the City needs help.
Councilwoman Lichter asked to speak about personality. Mayor
Allman holds very little credence in an applicant's personality
during a personal oral interview.
Councilwoman Lichter spoke about Mr. Grace being more reserved
and more strict and a bit more definite in his appearance. She
feels he is intelligent and is pointing these things out in terms
of interaction. She feels they can find out more about Mr. Grace
than Mr. Tinberg due to the fact that Mr. Grace is close by.
Councilman Roberts spoke about Mr. Tinberg's personality jumping
out at you. Councilman Roberts spoke about the time he spent
with Mr. Grace. Councilwoman Lichter feels Mr. Grace's integrity
was beyond reproach.
Councilman Roberts spoke about Mr. Tinberg having more management
experience and all of the applicants having to take their first
management job.
Mayor Allman does not doubt Mr. Grace's qualifications as far as
being able to run the city. He feels there would be a savings
all the way around and he doesn't think they are losing anything
in qualifications or in demeanor or in professionalism. He feels
it is unfortunate that somebody is going to get hired and someone
is not. He feels they are both equal and it is a shame we can't
use them both.
Interim City Manager Hooper spoke about Council narrowing this
down so they are in a no lose situation. He spoke about seeing
the different traits of the three applicants in a social setting
and one on one.
Mayor Allman spoke about Mr. Grace answering questions direct and
to the point. Mr. Tinberg used several analogies. Mayor Allman
likes the to the point and direct answer. He sees Mr. Grace as
that type of individual.
Interim City Manager Hooper informed Council he would like to see
them talk about this but when the motion is made to authorize
negotiations, that should be unanimous.
Councilwoman Lichter spoke about an executive session and
questioned if this is allowed. She was informed no. Interim
city Manager Hooper informed Council what they can do.
Mayor Allman stated they could do a preliminary ranking and if
need be, at that time they could take a motion. Interim city
Manager Hooper stated they could just poll each other right now
and see if there is a three to one regarding the top applicant.
Councilwoman Lichter spoke about being comfortable working with
both gentlemen. She feels they could both do the job but she was
more worried about their interaction with the public that attend
meetings and the community.
Councilman Roberts spoke about why Mr. Tinberg caught his eye
early on. He spoke about Mr. Grace being so active in Central
Florida. Even though he is young and less experienced, that
sometimes has convinced him to lean more towards Mr. Grace.
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Councilwoman Lichter spoke about forgetting to ask Mr. Tinberg
about his degree. She thinks he got his Bachelor of Arts but she
doesn't know if he ever made the MPA because it says he is a
candidate. She questioned if he is working on a degree. Interim
City Manager Hooper stated he doesn't believe he is doing any
furthering education right now.
Councilman Roberts asked how long Mr. Grace has been a Deputy
Manager in Seminole. Interim City Manager Hooper stated since
1991.
Councilman Roberts noticed with some of the applicants, they
would last for one administration. If someone stayed long term,
it means they were able to adapt to new Councils as they were
elected. He would like someone to stay long term and help
develop this community.
Councilwoman Lichter asked if they contacted any of the
references. Councilman Hammond stated he contacted references
provided by Mr. Painter. Interim city Manager Hooper informed
Council he has contacted several references and received no
negative comments.
Interim City Manager Hooper stated if Council is unable to rank
the applicants, he could do a skeleton contract, negotiate with
the two individuals, and do a comparing contrast and bring this
back to Council. Mayor Allman feels that would take too much
time.
Interim City Manager Hooper stated both individuals have two
other cities or counties that are about to make them an offer or
are at least in the final stages of an interview.
There was a brief discussion regarding the applicants and their
involvement in the community. Councilwoman Lichter doesn't feel
this would be a problem.
There was a brief discussion regarding the offers for the
applicants from other cities or counties.
Councilwoman Lichter spoke about the easy going manner Mr.
Tinberg had even after not being able to find his hotel in the
dark. He adjusted to something that happened.
Councilman Roberts spoke about Mr. Grace staying in Central
Florida. He feels he is rooted in this area. He is still
learning more toward Mr. Grace.
Councilman Hammond chose Mr. Grace. Councilman
Grace. Councilwoman Lichter chose Mr. Tinberg.
stated it is a moot point because they won't do
is unanimous.
Roberts chose Mr.
Mayor Allman
anything until it
Interim City Manager Hooper asked for a motion to authorize him
to negotiate a draft contract with Kevin Grace and he would
return a draft on January 5th.
Mayor Allman asked how much they have on the agenda for January
5th. Interim city Manager Hooper stated there is a lot on the
agenda, but Council has already been through a lot of it.
Interim City Manager Hooper briefly commented on what would be on
the January 5th agenda.
Councilman Roberts asked if Interim city Manager Hooper feels the
top two applicants are at the point with other cities of
discussing money. He asked if they are competing financially.
Interim City Manager Hooper explained Edgewater is in front of
the other folks.
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Interim City Manager Hooper feels by offering first, the
individual would have to make up his mind.
Councilman Hammond made a motion to authorize Interim City
Manager Hooper to negotiate a draft contract with Kevin Grace and
bring this back to Council for their consideration on January
5th, second by Councilman HammoRd. The motion CARRIED 4-0.
~oh~ r+S
ADJOURNMENT
There being no further business to discuss, councilman Hammond
moved to adjourn, second by Councilman Roberts. The motion
CARRIED 4-0. The meeting adjourned at 3:01 p.m.
Minutes submitted by:
Lisa Kruckmeyer
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