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12-23-1997 - Special ,...,.. ..."", CITY COUNCIL OF EDGEWATER RECONVENED SPECIAL MEETING DECEMBER 23, 1997 1:00 P.M. COMMUNITY CENTER MINUTES CALL TO ORDER Mayor Allman reconvened the Special Meeting from December 22, 1997 to order at 1:08 p.m. in the Community Center. ROLL CALL Mayor Randy Allman Councilman James Gornto Councilman Myron Hammond Councilman Gary Roberts Councilman Judith Lichter Interim City Attorney Nikki Clayton Interim City Manager Kenneth Hooper City Clerk Susan Wadsworth Police Chief Lawrence Schumaker Present Excused Present Present Present Present Present Present Present MEETING PURPOSE The purpose of this meeting is to complete the City Manager interviews, finishing with Mr. Tinberg. Interim City Manager Hooper informed Council of the interview process and informed them after the interviews, if they are ready to make a recommendation, that would be the proper time to do it. The next applicant to be interviewed was Dennis Tinberg. At this time, Mr. Tinberg was interviewed and questions were asked by Council. Interim City Manager Hooper informed Mr. Tinberg what Council would be doing and that he would be notified later in the afternoon. Interim City Manager Hooper asked JoAnn Richard to inform Mr. Tinberg that he could head back and that he would be contacted later. Interim City Manager Hooper informed Council an anonymous tally sheet, per staff recommendation, is available if Council wishes to hear it. Interim city Manager Hooper suggested to Council if they are at a point where they are ready to make a decision or the number one recommendation is to give direction to him to negotiate a draft contract, he would bring this back to Council at the January 5th meeting. Mayor Allman feels the longer they wait to make a decision the more muddled they will become. He is confident that Council could reach a decision pending a background investigation. He feels they could make a tentative decision this afternoon as far as he is concerned. Councilman Roberts also feels since it is still fresh in their minds, this would be the time to act. Page -3- Council Special Meeting December 23, 1997 .. .."" Mayor Allman stated staff's recommendation is going to be very important to him due to staff having to work with the new City Manager. He asked to see staff's recommendation if they find themselves caught between two individuals. Interim City Manager Hooper suggested each Councilperson list their choices in an order and see if there is a majority for number one, Council score them, or they could debate among themselves the pros and cons. Councilwoman Lichter asked Interim City Manager Hooper if it would usually be possible to get from three to two. Interim city Manager Hooper doesn't know what Council would do any different than they have done to this point. We have gone through a system that is as clean and sophisticated as you will see in any large city. He told Council they could do written discussion, a testing type thing or they could bring them back for another interview. Councilman Roberts feels to reinterview to break it down to two is redundant. Councilwoman Lichter clarified she meant in the discussion, might they talk about two. It was the consensus of Council to discuss Mr. Grace and Mr. Tinberg as the top two choices. Mayor Allman stated they seem to be two different individuals. Both of them seem to be highly qualified and highly educated Mr. Grace's answers were short and to the point. Mr. Tinberg's answers were to the point but he elaborated a little too long. Mr. Tinberg had a sense of humor which he feels is good due to the fact of the morale. We are looking at two people who are going to be on the best behavior but we won't see the real person until two or three months down the road. It is a tough decision. Councilman Hammond felt Mr. Tinberg had more hands on and wanted to get more involved in each branch whereas Mr. Grace, you have the right people there and he is going to be watching. He feels someone that would be involved in each department would be stretching himself too thin. Councilman Roberts stated you need a manager to delegate authority but you need a little hands on. You don't want to just delegate authority and just walk away from it. He's got to keep his hands on the reins. Councilman Roberts was impressed with some of Mr. Tinberg's answers. One thing about Mr. Grace was he seemed to be the younger of the three. We have a very young community now. He can see him growing with the community. To bring youth into the management circle he feels is important. We need someone who can relate to the young families that are the majority of the population of Florida Shores now. Mayor Allman spoke about having someone young and this being a stepping stone for him and two years later he could leave. with Mr. Tinberg he is a gentleman that is single and it is hard for a single man to set roots with the community. He could be from Florida back to Massachusetts and not missing anything also. He also spoke about the community being young. Councilwoman Lichter does not think you have to be the best swimmer to be a good coach. She doesn't think you have to be young to have a mature understanding of what young couples go through. She feels with a little more maturity in age, it is not a negative thing, but you can see the generalized picture a little better. Page -4- Council Special Meeting December 23, 1997 'W" ...., Councilwoman Lichter spoke about being a mixed community of retirees and young couples. What she liked about Mr. Tinberg, was not necessarily that he was going to interfere with the department heads, but that he literally was going to get into this community. Councilwoman Lichter liked the team approach he used for bringing in the developers. She feels both applicants are excellent. She feels Mr. Grace hasn't quite had that city experience. She feels county experience is a little different ball game. She is leaning more toward Mr. Tinberg. Councilman Roberts stated Mr. Tinberg has more experience and a longer history in management. He spoke about Mr. Tinberg not being up to date on dealing with growth management laws of Florida and probably the Department of Community Affairs in Tallahassee where Mr. Grace has been involved with that up to date. He feels with Mr. Grace working in Seminole County, it isn't much different there than it is here. He feels Mr. Grace is right in tune with Florida growth. Councilwoman Lichter respects every department head and the job they do but in the end this falls on our shoulders and in the end this person has to be their boss. She feels it is difficult to pick your own boss. Mayor Allman spoke about being a young Council and without Mr. Hooper guiding them for a period of time, they wouldn't have been able to do what they did. He feels Mr. Hooper has done an exemplary job. He feels they need someone that is going to continue to guide the Council. Once they start smooth sailing, they are going to go full speed ahead and they need someone that knows the direction Council wants to go in and someone that has been down that road before that is going to help them as much as they are going to help this City. He feels they need to get it down to an experience and maturity factor. Councilman Roberts feels it might be wise to look at what staff came up with. Mayor Allman asked how staff voted. Interim City Manager Hooper stated there were nine individuals that sat through all three interviews. There were six first place votes for Mr. Grace and three first place votes for Mr. Tinberg. They all agreed with Council regarding the third individual. Interim City Manager Hooper feels Council also needs to think about the contract. He suggested Council look at a two-year contract, a salary range of $60,000, and a probationary period. There was a brief discussion regarding the probationary period and severance pay. Councilman Roberts spoke about the difference in the locations of the two gentlemen. He feels it would be more of a problem for Mr. Tinberg because of the fact that he lives so far away. Mr. Tinberg also mentioned relocation costs where Mr. Grace is just a stone's throwaway. He is leaning toward the idea that Mr. Grace could commute and see if it worked here. Councilwoman Lichter questioned how generally you compensate for a move. Interim City Manager Hooper stated when Mr. McMahon was hired the city paid twelve or thirteen hundred dollars. He recommended Council look at a number fairly similar to that as a flat number. Interim city Manager Hooper proposed negotiating a contract to have a probationary period before severance pay kicked in. Page -5- Council Special Meeting December 23, 1997 ,..,. .., Councilwoman Lichter spoke about Mr. Tinberg looking at the community and feeling Edgewater needs to be made a place people would want to come to live. There was a brief discussion regarding what the three gentlemen have accomplished as far as obtaining grants. Mayor Allman is leaning more toward Mr. Tinberg because of his maturity and sense of humor. He further elaborated on morale and feels a man with a personality and a sense of humor can keep morale up. Mayor Allman spoke about Mr. Grace's youth and feels to go as far as he has gone in county government, he evidently knows what he is doing. He is a very amicable young man also. Interim City Manager Hooper stated there are citizens that have sat through the interviews and Council may want to seek some input from them. Dominic Capria, 606 Topside Circle, presented his feelings on the applicants. Paul Jenkins, pine Tree Drive, elaborated on what Council should look for in the contract and presented his feelings on the applicants. Mayor Allman stated the finances make a lot of sense to him plus the availability. Interim City Manager Hooper's contract runs out January 2nd. Councilman Roberts stated he is sure Mr. Hooper wouldn't mind staying on for an extended period as a consultant to get into a transitional period. Mr. Hooper stated he is convinced there is some transition to occur here. Interim City Manager Hooper stated if Council is two to two, they could tell him to try and negotiate a skeleton contract with both individuals and outline financial requirements. Councilwoman Lichter agreed with Councilman Roberts that Mr. Hooper should stay on if possible to help in this transition set up. She is not worried about Mr. Tinberg and the Florida Growth Management laws. She asked if there are any questions they left unanswered that they forgot to ask that they want to know now. Councilman Roberts stated Mr. Tinberg may be able to bring in industry from outside the state. He spoke about Mr. Grace being in seminole County and about Seminole County landing the Cincinnati Bell firm with 3,500 jobs to come to Seminole County. Councilman Hammond expressed concern with youth and inexperience. Councilman Roberts spoke about Mr. Grace being in the pulse of the economic growth in Seminole County. Even though Mr. Tinberg is a well adverse man in management and he is sure he would do a good job, he keeps looking at what else is happening in Central Florida. Mr. Grace has more hands on experience with this region of the country. Mayor Allman agreed with Councilman Roberts regarding Mr. Grace being in the pulse of economic growth. Councilman Roberts feels they need someone that is familiar with bringing people in and not losing people. Councilman Hammond feels Mr. Grace would be more aggressive. Page -6- Council Special Meeting December 23, 1997 'W' ....", Mayor Allman asked what the toughest part would be for Mr. Grace from being an Assistant County Manager into taking over a City Manager position. Interim City Manager Hooper feels he is probably a stronger financial person coming from a County than a city but he has probably not had the experience with law enforcement. Mayor Allman spoke about the financial end of this being where the City needs help. Councilwoman Lichter asked to speak about personality. Mayor Allman holds very little credence in an applicant's personality during a personal oral interview. Councilwoman Lichter spoke about Mr. Grace being more reserved and more strict and a bit more definite in his appearance. She feels he is intelligent and is pointing these things out in terms of interaction. She feels they can find out more about Mr. Grace than Mr. Tinberg due to the fact that Mr. Grace is close by. Councilman Roberts spoke about Mr. Tinberg's personality jumping out at you. Councilman Roberts spoke about the time he spent with Mr. Grace. Councilwoman Lichter feels Mr. Grace's integrity was beyond reproach. Councilman Roberts spoke about Mr. Tinberg having more management experience and all of the applicants having to take their first management job. Mayor Allman does not doubt Mr. Grace's qualifications as far as being able to run the city. He feels there would be a savings all the way around and he doesn't think they are losing anything in qualifications or in demeanor or in professionalism. He feels it is unfortunate that somebody is going to get hired and someone is not. He feels they are both equal and it is a shame we can't use them both. Interim City Manager Hooper spoke about Council narrowing this down so they are in a no lose situation. He spoke about seeing the different traits of the three applicants in a social setting and one on one. Mayor Allman spoke about Mr. Grace answering questions direct and to the point. Mr. Tinberg used several analogies. Mayor Allman likes the to the point and direct answer. He sees Mr. Grace as that type of individual. Interim City Manager Hooper informed Council he would like to see them talk about this but when the motion is made to authorize negotiations, that should be unanimous. Councilwoman Lichter spoke about an executive session and questioned if this is allowed. She was informed no. Interim city Manager Hooper informed Council what they can do. Mayor Allman stated they could do a preliminary ranking and if need be, at that time they could take a motion. Interim city Manager Hooper stated they could just poll each other right now and see if there is a three to one regarding the top applicant. Councilwoman Lichter spoke about being comfortable working with both gentlemen. She feels they could both do the job but she was more worried about their interaction with the public that attend meetings and the community. Councilman Roberts spoke about why Mr. Tinberg caught his eye early on. He spoke about Mr. Grace being so active in Central Florida. Even though he is young and less experienced, that sometimes has convinced him to lean more towards Mr. Grace. Page -7- Council special Meeting December 23, 1997 'w' ..., Councilwoman Lichter spoke about forgetting to ask Mr. Tinberg about his degree. She thinks he got his Bachelor of Arts but she doesn't know if he ever made the MPA because it says he is a candidate. She questioned if he is working on a degree. Interim City Manager Hooper stated he doesn't believe he is doing any furthering education right now. Councilman Roberts asked how long Mr. Grace has been a Deputy Manager in Seminole. Interim City Manager Hooper stated since 1991. Councilman Roberts noticed with some of the applicants, they would last for one administration. If someone stayed long term, it means they were able to adapt to new Councils as they were elected. He would like someone to stay long term and help develop this community. Councilwoman Lichter asked if they contacted any of the references. Councilman Hammond stated he contacted references provided by Mr. Painter. Interim city Manager Hooper informed Council he has contacted several references and received no negative comments. Interim City Manager Hooper stated if Council is unable to rank the applicants, he could do a skeleton contract, negotiate with the two individuals, and do a comparing contrast and bring this back to Council. Mayor Allman feels that would take too much time. Interim City Manager Hooper stated both individuals have two other cities or counties that are about to make them an offer or are at least in the final stages of an interview. There was a brief discussion regarding the applicants and their involvement in the community. Councilwoman Lichter doesn't feel this would be a problem. There was a brief discussion regarding the offers for the applicants from other cities or counties. Councilwoman Lichter spoke about the easy going manner Mr. Tinberg had even after not being able to find his hotel in the dark. He adjusted to something that happened. Councilman Roberts spoke about Mr. Grace staying in Central Florida. He feels he is rooted in this area. He is still learning more toward Mr. Grace. Councilman Hammond chose Mr. Grace. Councilman Grace. Councilwoman Lichter chose Mr. Tinberg. stated it is a moot point because they won't do is unanimous. Roberts chose Mr. Mayor Allman anything until it Interim City Manager Hooper asked for a motion to authorize him to negotiate a draft contract with Kevin Grace and he would return a draft on January 5th. Mayor Allman asked how much they have on the agenda for January 5th. Interim city Manager Hooper stated there is a lot on the agenda, but Council has already been through a lot of it. Interim City Manager Hooper briefly commented on what would be on the January 5th agenda. Councilman Roberts asked if Interim city Manager Hooper feels the top two applicants are at the point with other cities of discussing money. He asked if they are competing financially. Interim City Manager Hooper explained Edgewater is in front of the other folks. Page -8- Council Special Meeting December 23, 1997 .. '-" "wi Interim City Manager Hooper feels by offering first, the individual would have to make up his mind. Councilman Hammond made a motion to authorize Interim City Manager Hooper to negotiate a draft contract with Kevin Grace and bring this back to Council for their consideration on January 5th, second by Councilman HammoRd. The motion CARRIED 4-0. ~oh~ r+S ADJOURNMENT There being no further business to discuss, councilman Hammond moved to adjourn, second by Councilman Roberts. The motion CARRIED 4-0. The meeting adjourned at 3:01 p.m. Minutes submitted by: Lisa Kruckmeyer Page -9- Council Special Meeting December 23, 1997