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10-20-1997 - Regular ...,. ,..."" CITY COUNCIL OF EDGEWATER REGULAR MEETING OCTOBER 20, 1997 7:00 P.M. COMMUNITY CENTER MINUTES CALL TO ORDER Mayor Allman called the Regular Meeting to order at 7:00 p.m. in the Community Center. ROLL CALL Mayor Randy Allman Councilman James Gornto Councilman Myron Hammond Councilman Gary Roberts Councilwoman Judith Lichter Interim City Attorney Nikki Clayton Interim City Manager Kenneth Hooper city Clerk Susan Wadsworth Lisa Kruckmeyer Police Chief Lawrence Schumaker Present Present Excused Present Present Present Present Excused Present Present INVOCATION. PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE At this time, there was a silent invocation and pledge of allegiance to the Flag. APPROVAL OF MINUTES A. Regular Meeting of October 6, 1997 Councilwoman Lichter made a motion to approve the October 6, 1997 minutes, second by Councilman Roberts. Councilman Gornto asked that on Page 7 his vote be changed to NO. He was informed he can not abstain unless there is a conflict of interest. He voted in protest of what was going on. Mayor Allman stated it would be proper to amend the motion to show that. He asked Councilwoman Lichter if she would like to do the same. Councilwoman Lichter stated no because she feels it was a conflict for her to vote in an illegal manner. She believes the vote was illegal so she would stick with her motion. Mayor Allman questioned if that would have to be placed in writing. Councilwoman Lichter stated she had to speak to her own attorney. Interim City Attorney Clayton explained Councilman Gornto wanted to have the minutes reflect that he had his vote corrected to a NO vote instead of an abstention and the correct process among Councilmembers would be if there is no objection to that, to have the record reflect that. There were no objections from Council. The motion CARRIED 4-0. CITIZEN COMMENTS REGARDING AGENDA ITEMS ONLY (Other than public hearings) John Moore, 2354 Fern Palm Drive, thanked Council for having an invocation and pledge of allegiance. Mr. Moore spoke about board appointments. He realizes how crucial it is to have a full board to conduct business properly. He believes it is crucial to have the boards made up of a diverse array of qualified people and that the boards be made up of people throughout the City. W' ~ Mr. Moore spoke about the Economic Development Board. They amended their bylaws so they could develop a process to review applicants and to make recommendations to Council. He requested Council make no appointments until they talk to the Board members. Mr. Moore went on to speak about the agenda format. He suggested Council have one organized, civil meeting under the old format before they decide on any changes. He was ashamed after the last meeting because he could not make his comments without being associated with a lot of bad things being said. Dick Martinez, 317 Schooner Avenue, agreed with Mr. Moore. He would like to know more about the revision of the agenda before Council makes any changes. He feels the agenda as it has been has worked and he would object to any change. Paul Jenkins, Willow Oak Drive, agreed with the former two speakers. He would like to hear the discussion and proposed changes and let the public have a couple meetings to put input into it and see what they think before they decide on a new format. Karl Gerwe, Chairman, Economic Development Board, spoke about board appointments. He requested Council postpone their choices for the EDB until they have a chance to review the new applicants. Mayor Allman asked if they were to table the appointments until the applicants can be looked at, will it create a problem with the boards meeting as far as having a quorum. Interim City Attorney Clayton stated she doesn't believe any quorum issues have been brought to her attention. She suggested Council wait until this matter comes up on the agenda to get into discussion. Mr. Moore stated the only Board that doesn't have a quorum is the Beautification & Tree Committee and they haven't had a full board in a long time. Mike Visconti, 316 pine Breeze Drive, questioned if there still is a Beautification Committee. In the past year, there have been no meetings of the Beautification Committee. He asked if it is dissolved or became a part of another committee. Councilman Roberts stated he believes they still have a board. Ms. Kruckmeyer explained there currently is no one on that board and Mr. Visconti's term has expired as well. Councilman Roberts stated he would like more people to join Mr. Visconti on the board. He feels they will find some volunteers after they review the applications. Councilwoman Lichter stated she received a letter from a gentleman who applied to that board and has never heard back. He sounds very qualified. She spoke about having a liaison from the Council to some of the committees and boards that are quasi legal that are not legal in any sense and perhaps that could give them the impetus to get going and see what we need. CITY COUNCIL REPORTS Councilwoman Lichter spoke about DBCC offering workshops regarding parliamentary procedure. She feels they can all profit from such a course. She asked that Interim City Manager Hooper look into the possibility of DBCC coming and offering a course to the new Council. Page -2- Council Regular Meeting October 20, 1997 '-' ...... Councilwoman Lichter spoke about having a more professional means of picking people to serve on boards and commissions. She spoke about all of the commissions requiring a certain expertise or some general knowledge and our application form doesn't seem to address that. She has come from a community where they interview all the applicants at an open workshop type meeting. She feels they need to hear from the Chairmen to see what their needs are and they need to hear from Council regarding what their goals are. Councilwoman Lichter made a motion to postpone until the November 3rd meeting all of the applications and in the interim they have the opportunity to meet the applicants and the Chairmen of the commissions. Interim City Attorney Clayton explained as far as making a motion at an appropriate time, a Councilman is perfectly able to make a motion at any time he sees fit. It is just a question of whether it is an appropriate time in the flow of the meeting and whether all information and discussion is there. Councilwoman Lichter spoke about appointing members from the whole City. In the past, this was done in a very loose manner. She spoke about the appointment process in the past. She feels it would be more professional if they had the opportunity to meet the applicants. Councilwoman Lichter reiterated her motion to postpone until November 3rd any considerations to filling boards and commissions excluding the commissions the Council has to represent themselves with other cities. Interim City Attorney Clayton explained in order to talk about the motion they need a second for discussion purposes and then proceed to determine whether that motion or a motion in another format goes up or down. Mayor Allman reiterated the motion to suspend the appointments of any of the boards until the next scheduled meeting excluding the appointment to the Volusia Council of Governments, Metropolitan Planning Organization, Metropolitan Planning Organization citizens Advisory Committee and the alternate to the Volusian Water Alliance Board of Representatives. Councilman Roberts seconded the motion. Councilman Roberts believes they need to meet with what members exist on the boards and get their input. He likes the idea of having people from different parts of the City involved in each board. He spoke about applications that have been received recently. He believes people have submitted applications because there is a new Council and they feel it is time to get involved. He hopes there is enough time between now and the next meeting to meet with some of the boards. He questioned if it would be proper for all Councilmembers to meet with the advisory boards. They are public meetings and we are in an open forum. Interim City Manager Hooper explained if their meetings are advertised it is appropriate for Council to show up or if they want to appoint a liaison from the Council to each of those, so they have someone who can go to a particular meeting. A variety of methods work. If Council wants someone to come and have just a work session to interview all applicants, any of those formats work. Councilman Roberts asked if all advisory board meetings are advertised as open public meetings. Interim City Manager Hooper stated he would think they are. Page -3- Council Regular Meeting October 20, 1997 ......, ,..., Councilman Roberts feels they need to move in that direction and get more input. Councilman Gornto stated he would be concerned unless it is advertised as a Council workshop. If two or more Councilmembers show up and they discuss something that is going to come back before Council they are back in the same suit. Interim City Attorney Clayton stated she is wondering whether the issue is the method in which Council will make appointments or input from the members from the volunteer boards as to what their needs are and suggestions from them as to how Council might consider making appointments. It can be done by geography, population, subject matter of interest or by training experience expertise. There are various boards that have different kinds of requirements. She stated that may be something that Council would like to do some fact finding and come back in Council session to discuss whether or not the process Council has now for making appointments is what they wish to continue doing. Interim City Attorney Clayton appointing board members. If process, then it is in place. another manner, Council might say. explained the process for Council wants to continue the If they would like to proceed in listen to what the boards have to Councilwoman Lichter explained her motion in her mind is clear. What Interim City Attorney Clayton has mentioned is a slightly different thought. Her motion in actuality was before the November 3rd meeting to meet with the Chairmen as well as the applicants. The captured thought of meeting with the chairmen before them of these various committees makes sense because their needs may be different. The EDB has laid out very clearly the areas of expertise they need to constitute their board. Councilwoman Lichter suggested taking this one bite at a time. She feels they should have a meeting to just talk to the Chairmen between now and the next meeting and they can tell us their various needs and we can set something in motion. She is very hesitant at this point hearing of change. She feels it would be better to meet with the Chairmen between now and November 3rd. Interim City Attorney Clayton explained the only reason she went to the degree she did in the discussion of what the question might be. She wasn't hearing what the issue was clearly and she heard a motion maker and a second having some difference in their understanding. Councilman Roberts feels they should meet with not only the Chairmen but the other members as well. He feels they would get more input that way. Mayor Allman stated the motion as he understood it was to postpone or suspend the appointments until the next meeting giving Council a chance to speak with department heads. Councilman and invite with that. motion was Gornto questioned why they couldn't hold a workshop all of the committees. Mayor Allman sees no problem The only thing he is saying is that the original to avoid the appointments this evening. Councilman Gornto suggested amending the motion to say a workshop on a certain date to meet with the committees. Councilman Roberts questioned if they would be able to get all the review done of all the committees at one workshop. There are a lot of boards, a lot of people to listen to and a lot of applicants. Perhaps it would take two or so workshops in order to get it all in. Councilman Gornto suggested starting with one and going from there. Councilwoman Lichter suggested starting with the committees that have the needs at the moment. Page -4- Council Regular Meeting October 20, 1997 "-' ....., Councilwoman Lichter stated she can eat her original motion if her second would take it off. The only part she feels should stick at the moment is the postponing until the November 3rd meeting. She suggested setting a date to meet with the Chairmen in an orderly manner and the members of that committee. Councilman Roberts suggested meeting with the boards themselves in the workshop. He asked Interim City Manager Hooper to schedule a workshop for them. Interim City Manager Hooper suggested picking a date while they are at the meeting. He suggested the week of October 27th. Councilman Roberts feels it would be wise for Councilman Hammond to be involved too. He feels they should schedule the workshop after his return. Interim City Manager Hooper stated he thinks Councilman Hammond is due back this week and suggested October 29th. Mayor Allman reiterated the motion to be suspending the appointments to the boards listed under Item 7A, 7B, 7G, 7H until the next meeting of Council and to schedule a workshop with all of the concerned board chairmen and board members until October 29th at 7:00 p.m. in the Community Center. He asked if that is the motion. Councilwoman Lichter stated that is fine, second by Councilman Roberts. The motion CARRIED 4-0. Councilwoman Lichter spoke about a request from Finance Director/Assistant city Manager Fred Munoz to assume his duties as he sees them as implied by the last Council to act as Manager in this community while they place an ad and look for a permanent one. This is not an agenda item. She feels it should be an agenda item and suggested putting this on an upcoming agenda. Mayor Allman sees no problem with that. Councilwoman Lichter stated the sooner the better. If there is room, she would like it placed on the November 3rd agenda. If not, two weeks after that. She feels the discussion of this item would help morale and perhaps save some money and reward a person in this community that has been very loyal for a good many years. Councilman Roberts spoke about the agenda format. He feels people are jumping the gun. He feels if they realize what Council can do to change the agenda format, it would make it a lot easier for the citizens. The basic idea was to allow people to speak on agenda items as they come up. Not in one lump sum up front. Councilman Roberts feels citizens comments would be more effective discussing an item when it is brought up on the agenda instead of at the beginning of the meeting due to the time it may take to get to that item. The impact of the comments will not be considered but forgotten by a lot of people. Councilman Roberts spoke about the City Charter. He feels they need to set up a review committee and start looking over the Charter. The Charter is not carved in stone. It is a living document, no different than our Constitution. It can be amended and changed. It has to work with the community. He feels this is something Council needs to work on. Councilman Gornto stated the information he has received are the resumes of the Interim City Manager and Interim City Attorney. Unless it is in the mass of papers he received, he is still not aware of the compensation package or what contractual obligations we have. If that is known at this point, he feels the whole Council should know. Page -5- Council Regular Meeting October 20, 1997 ~ ....., Councilman Gornto also feels the request of Finance Director/Assistant City Manager Fred Munoz should be placed on the next agenda for consideration. Councilman Gornto believes Council should come up with a standard of what is allowable in this chamber and what is not. He feels what occurred at the last meeting was terrible. There were public outbursts. Councilman Hammond was trying to speak and two gentlemen sitting in the front said to him resign and if it is too hot in the kitchen get out. There is nothing wrong with what they said but he doesn't feel that is proper demeanor. This is not a town hall meeting in New England, this is a representative form of government. He recommended to Mayor Allman that any outbursts or any talking or any additional business going on in this room, we should ask the people to go through the doors and if they don't, to be escorted out by the Police and not be allowed in the meeting again. This is very serious business. He respects everyone's opinion but you can't conduct business in chaos. Mayor Allman concurred. Interim City Manager Hooper explained right have a contract and is under no obligation. contract on November 3rd as well as Interim Clayton. now the City doesn't He will present a City Attorney Mayor Allman agreed with Councilman Gornto regarding the last meeting. It is very difficult stepping into the shoes of a former Mayor such as Jack Hayman who he highly respects. It is very difficult to control a crowd such as they had where the emotions were very high on both sides. He felt it was in the best interest of the crowd to let people say what they had to say without banging the gavel. It was a very volatile situation. He feels if anyone would have been escorted out the door, there could have been a very ugly situation. He felt he handled it as well as it could be handled. Mayor Allman stated all in all the meeting went, in his opinion, as well as could be expected considering everything that went on. We will learn parliamentary procedure as we go along. He hopes they never have another meeting like the last meeting. Everyone has a right to speak and will get a chance to speak but they all have a right to respect the person that is speaking. We will learn together and with the help of the public another meeting like the last meeting won't happen. Councilman Roberts agreed with Mayor Allman and Councilman Gornto. He feels they need more order at the meetings. PUBLIC HEARINGS. ORDINANCES AND RESOLUTIONS A. Request for grant of variance from shorelines buffer and impervious surface, Res. 97-R-27 (Continued from 10/6/97 meeting) Community Development Director Mark Karet made a staff presentation. staff supports the applicant's request and recommends approval of this variance. Councilman Gornto asked if there are any wetlands on this piece of property. Mr. Karet explained there is a witness line which is essentially the mean high water line. There is a dash-line east of that. Between those two lines, there are wetlands. There is a buffer associated with the wetlands which is 25 feet. Councilman Gornto stated it is amazing this property is so close to the river and there is no wetlands other than just right at the shore line. Page -6- Council Regular Meeting October 20, 1997 ~ ~ councilman Roberts commented on the setback lines coming off the east side. If the 50' ruling was enforced, this basically becomes a useless piece of land to the applicants. He spoke about this being very limited use which would be a financial hardship on the owners. He sees no problem with this request. The key is the water retention area to the east which will collect any runoff from the roof lines and so forth and keep it out of the river. Councilwoman Lichter asked if they want a motion and then discussion. Interim City Attorney Clayton stated she feels it would be fair to hear from the applicant first. Luis Geil, 2105 Saxon Drive, New Smyrna Beach, representative, informed Council he is available to answer any questions. Mayor Allman had no questions and felt the presentation was adequate. Mayor Allman entertained a motion with regard to there being no further questions. Interim City Attorney Clayton informed Council they may also want to hear from members of the public due to this being a public hearing and see if there is anyone to speak regarding this item. Paul Jenkins, willow Oak Drive, stated if these people were not allowed to build it may come under that situation where they could sue for the property being useless over 50%. Interim City Attorney Clayton stated she hopes they won't have to answer that question. Herbert Geier, 1204 S. Riverside Drive, informed Council they are very anxious to get started. Councilman Roberts made a motion to grant the variance, second by Councilwoman Lichter. The motion CARRIED 4-0. CONSENT AGENDA A. Request to transfer $1,000 from special Law Enforcement Trust Fund to Police Department to defray cost of protracted or complex investigations Councilman Roberts asked if the funds will be returned at a later date into the original account they come out of. Interim City Manager Hooper explained it is set up as a law enforcement trust fund which has restricted use. Councilman Roberts asked how often the transfer requests come in. Police Chief Schumaker explained the last time they transferred $1,000 was 16 months ago. He explained the funds are spent for protracted and involved investigations. Councilwoman Lichter questioned when they do the Consent Agenda, if the approve all items with one motion. Mayor Allman explained it can be done but each one would probably require some explanation. Interim City Attorney Clayton explained the Consent Agenda generally can be taken in one lump motion with the chair asking for any members desiring to pull an item from the agenda for individual discussion. Councilman Gornto moved for approval, second by Councilman Roberts. The motion CARRIED 4-0. Page -7- Council Regular Meeting October 20, 1997 "w" .""" B. Settlement regarding Elizabeth A. Hill and Harvey Lee Hill vs Marjorie E. Stilwell, Arnold Stilwell, and City of Edgewater Interim City Attorney Clayton explained this relates to a meeting that was held recently categorized as a meeting in the shade which is contemplated by the Florida Statutes when a settlement discussion takes place between the Council and its attorney. After discussion and a decision being reached at that meeting then the results if they cause an impact over $5,000 are brought back to a meeting in the public. You have before you an item in which the Council has agreed that they would like to consider a settlement for an amount of $7,500 in this matter and the discussion was full and complete with the Council during the shade meeting however, if there are any questions regarding further explanation, that is the purpose of the item being on the agenda. Councilman Gornto moved for approval, second by Councilwoman Lichter. The motion CARRIED 4-0. C. Retaining Dean, Ringers, Morgan and Lawton in reference to Lorraine Wiley vs Joseph Keller, Loretta Keller, Radnor Corporation and City of Edgewater Interim City Attorney Clayton explained the case pertaining to the retaining of Dean, Ringers, Morgan and Lawton. Councilwoman Lichter stated she lives in Edgewater Landing and has no knowledge of this case nor benefit in any way from it. Councilman Roberts questioned how Joseph & Loretta Keller fall into this picture. Interim City Attorney Clayton explained they installed the sprinkler that extends into the City right-of-way. Councilman Roberts questioned if there is a dollar amount in the suit that has been named yet. Interim City Attorney Clayton explained in these it is traditional just to name an in excess of a certain amount. Councilwoman Lichter moved for approval, second by Councilman Gornto. The motion CARRIED 4-0. OTHER BOSINESS A. Appointments to Land Development and Planning Agency due to election to Council of Judith Lichter and resignation of Edna Hickox (Continued from 10/6/97 meeting) This item has been postponed until the November 3rd meeting. B. Appointment to Firefighters Pension Board due to expiration of term of Patricia Richards. who requests reappointment (Continued from 10/6/97 meeting) This item has been postponed until the November 3rd meeting. C. Appointment to Volusia Council of Governments Mayor Allman asked if it would be appropriate to postpone these four items until a full Council is available and they could call a special Meeting to handle this. Interim City Manager Hooper informed Mayor Allman they could do that at the next meeting if they wish to. Mayor Allman entertained a motion to have these postponed until the November 3rd meeting. Councilman Gornto so moved, second by Councilman Roberts. The motion CARRIED 4-0. Page -8- Council Regular Meeting October 20, 1997 ~ ~ D. Appointment to Metropolitan Planning Organization This item was postponed until the November 3rd meeting. E. Appointment to Metropolitan Planning Organization citizens Advisory Committee due to resignation of Elmer Rector This item was postponed until the November 3rd meeting. F. Appointment of member and alternate to Volusian Water Alliance Board of Representatives This item was postponed until the November 3rd meeting. G. Recommendations of Economic Development Board for appointments to fill three vacant positions This item was postponed until the November 3rd meeting. H. Appointment to General Employees Pension Board due to expiration of term of Rev. Harvey Hardin, who does not wish reappointment This item was postponed until the November 3rd meeting. I. Request to purchase three 1998 Ford Crown victoria police package pursuit vehicles from Mike Shad Ford using Florida Sheriff's Association bid Interim City Manager Hooper elaborated on there being time limits where they will order certain quantities and the first in gets those quantities so you are getting a reduced price by a statewide bid. Councilman Roberts questioned what is done with the vehicles that the new ones will be replacing. Chief Schumaker explained the three vehicles in question have very high mileage. We keep the two best cars that we have for spares and then put the spares up for auction. Occasionally the unit will go to another department in the City if they want it. He explained the cars are used for 24 hours a day unless someone is on vacation. Even though the mileage is high, there are far more miles on the motor because of the hours spent on accident investigations where the vehicle is idle. Councilman Roberts asked if this is included in the budget. Interim city Manager Hooper informed him it is contained within their budget. Chief Schumaker explained it is less than the anticipated price because the vehicles didn't go up quite as high as was expected. The urgency of the request is due to the fact that it will take anywhere between 4 and 7 months for delivery. Councilwoman Lichter asked if there is a chance that even if they put in their application now there won't be any available. Chief Schumaker explained it is not likely. Most cities went into the same fiscal year as we did. If they can get the order in, he feels comfortable they will be fine. Interim City Manager Hooper recommended approval. Mayor Allman would like to encompass in the motion Items 71 and 7J. J. Request to purchase one 1998 Ford Taurus Detective vehicle (non-pursuit) from Don Reid Ford using Florida Sheriff's Association bid Councilwoman Lichter made a motion to approve Items 71 and 7J, second by Councilman Gornto. The motion CARRIED 4-0. Page -9- Council Regular Meeting October 20, 1997 ~ ~ K. Discussion of Res. 95-R-02 re: agenda format Interim City Manager Hooper explained he is responsible for putting this on the agenda for discussion. Interim City Manager Hooper explained he has examples of a Consent Agenda coming to him from other cities as to the format they use. He explained this is on the agenda strictly for discussion. Councilwoman Lichter feels sometimes the citizens don't know where they are supposed to speak. She spoke about citizen Comments Regarding Agenda Items Only, Consent Agenda and Other Business and citizens not knowing when to speak. She feels they need to come up with something definite and clarify where the citizens need to speak. Councilwoman Lichter feels they need to have a meeting just to hear from the people. She suggested going into their respective districts or zones and hear from the people on anything they have to say. Councilman Roberts also spoke about citizen Comments Regarding Agenda Items Only and questioned if this is where people speak about items on the Consent Agenda. Interim City Attorney Clayton explained she believes it is on any item that they wish to speak to. She further spoke about citizens being able to speak regarding anything on the agenda regarding the first section of citizen comments other than during public hearings. She thinks the practice has been that citizens can address anything. She is not sure whether or not in the past they have asked the Council to pull a matter out from the Consent Agenda so it would get special attention. Councilman Roberts stated citizens have two times that they can comment. He feels citizens should comment when the item is being discussed on the agenda, that way people know when they can speak. He spoke about the meeting where the Mango Tree Drive petition for paving was discussed and they didn't know when they were to speak. He spoke about citizen comments being fresh in the Council's mind. He feels they should change the way citizen comments are brought about regarding agenda items. He sees no problem with keeping the general comments at the end of the meeting. Councilman Gornto explained the Charter requires the City Council shall determine its own rules and order of business except that the agenda for regular Council meetings shall include citizen Comments in the beginning and directly prior to adjournment. He agreed with Councilman Roberts. He feels it is much clearer to have discussion on an item when it is being looked at by Council. He feels they need to change the paragraph in the Charter or provide citizen comments in the beginning, during each item and at the end of the meeting. Councilwoman Lichter feels unless an item was on an agenda, citizens were not allowed in the most recent past to speak to it until the end. The Charter does say the citizens can say, within legal bounds, anything they want even if an item isn't on the agenda. She feels the terminology is confusing. We can make our own rules as long as they don't go against the Charter. She feels there is room to work with. Councilwoman Lichter feels they need to have some kind of rule regarding petitions and individuals speaking for a certain period of time or one person speak for a group of people. Councilwoman Lichter spoke about the petition regarding Mango Tree Drive and there not being a chance for it to be presented. Page -10- Council Regular Meeting October 20, 1997 "'-" ...,.; Councilman Roberts asked if the Charter can be changed by vote of Councilor is it something that would involve a referendum to modify the Charter to just fine tune the way the agenda is handled. Interim City Attorney Clayton explained they would have to have a Charter amendment and it would have to be done in the way the Charter is amended which is a vote by the people so you would have to develop the amendment through the amendment process. She is not sure all of the ways the Charter amendment could be proposed. The Charter can only be amended by a vote of the people, not by a vote of the Council. However, in order to achieve input from the public, it doesn't require a Charter change because you can retain the citizen input to begin with and it occurred to her that may have been there so people could speak to items on the Consent Agenda which generally are one blanket motion at the time it comes up. Interim City Attorney Clayton spoke about Interim City Manager Hooper passing out procedures that are used in other jurisdictions that might give Council some food for thought and they can come back with further questions regarding how Edgewater compares to procedures used in other jurisdictions. Interim City Attorney Clayton explained in Seminole County the Chairman reads the rules of the meeting right up front at every meeting. Councilman Roberts stated so for the time being, it might be wise to throw in a third citizen comments during the agenda items and in the mean time, if we are going to be doing Charter reviews, that is something that can come into play when the overall Charter is looked at. Councilwoman Lichter spoke about people having a thought or idea regarding something that is not on the agenda. For some reason, they feel the way this is written, they have to wait until late in the night. She wants to make it clear that our Charter does not give that kind of limitation. There is no reference to an item on the agenda only in our Charter. Councilman Roberts feels if people would want to speak early on in the meeting about an agenda item that would not be heard for a couple of hours that is their choice. They might find their comments are much more effective if they have the time to stick around and speak when that item comes up for discussion. Interim City Manager Hooper questioned if he is hearing they are basically satisfied with the current format but they want more public input closer to the vote. He informed Council he could show them two or three styles that are similar to that at the next meeting. Paul Jenkins, willow Oak Drive, agreed there should be comments when an item comes up. He would like to see it after the staff's presentation because a lot of times a citizen may have something put on the agenda and he is allowed to speak because it is his item on the agenda. He spoke about a citizen counteracting comments made by staff and not having that opportunity before the vote. Councilman Roberts feels they should have the ability to comment before or after staff at their choice because you would not vote until all citizens had their opportunity to speak on that agenda item. GENERAL CITIZEN COMMENTS/CORRESPONDENCE Andy Anderson asked Chief Schumaker the cost of the new vehicles. Chief Schumaker informed him they are $18,000 plus each. Page -11- Council Regular Meeting October 20, 1997 ~ ...." Mayor Allman stated they are getting the cars at an exceptional price. Mayor Allman commended Jack Corder for the new PA system. John Moore, 2354 Fern Palm Drive, thanked Council. This is the first Council meeting he has attended in six months where he wasn't frustrated. Adelaide Carter, 1705 Dayton street, felt it was an unfair comment to make to Mr. visconti informing him he was no longer on the Committee due to his term expiring. She spoke about Mr. visconti being instrumental in getting the fountain put at the corner of D.S #1 and SR 442. She doesn't feel that was a necessary comment because of the work he has done on the Beautification Committee. Interim city Attorney Clayton explained ordinarily the process is that a member serves even after his term expires until his successor is appointed. She thinks Mr. visconti could consider to be still serving as a member of that board until his successor or he is reappointed. George Ewing, 2923 Royal Palm Drive, stated he hasn't attended a Council meeting in two years. He spoke about attending most of the meetings for six years before that. The reason he stopped attending Council meetings was because of the restriction on citizen comments. He feels the new Council is taking the proper approach to citizen comments. The Charter specifically says that you can speak before and after the meeting. He suggested Council advertise for boards and let the public know how many openings there are on every board. Councilman Roberts feels this is a good idea. Councilwoman Lichter spoke about improving the application. OFFICER REPORTS Lisa Kruckmeyer informed Council there will be a newsletter going out in the next couple of weeks if they would like to advertise for boards. Mayor Allman felt that was a good idea. Interim City Attorney Clayton had nothing at this time. Interim City Manager Hooper stated he would like to seek some dates to put his matters of concern on a work session. He presented a report on the Charter review, city Attorney report regarding in-house or outside legal counsel, the expansion of the Library parking lot, Budget update, new fire station site, and community goal setting. Councilwoman Lichter feels the boards and commissions must be filled. She questioned if they really need a workshop regarding the expansion of the Library parking lot. She questioned if it could be placed on the next agenda. Interim City Manager Hooper stated he thinks it could be placed on the agenda. It could be placed in a work session on that agenda. He is trying to find out if Council needs a work session or if they know enough for him to place it on an agenda. Mayor Allman stated it is but the citizens as well. workshop would be good to participate. not only how comfortable the Council is If they don't know what is going on a allow the public to come in and Page -12- Council Regular Meeting October 20, 1997 ....... ...., Councilman Roberts stated the library parking lot is all County money. Interim City Manager Hooper explained the issue is the County is giving the City money and it is almost a fixed fee to go build and not to exceed. Councilman Roberts stated if we can do it with the funds the County is giving the City, the City will benefit without money out of our pocket. He feels this should be addressed as soon as possible. Councilwoman Lichter spoke about problems she feels exist between the cities in Volusia County and the County. She would like to better that relationship. She spoke about having a meeting with the County. Councilwoman Lichter spoke about Charter review. She feels mainly what needs to be done in the next two weeks is getting the boards and commissions filled and putting themselves on some of these commissions so they can with dignity represent Edgewater. She feels if they have a consensus that a Charter Review Committee would be needed, they could request applications for that as well in the newsletter. Interim City Manager Hooper stated the question is if Council wants to create a Charter Revision Committee. Councilman Roberts stated any suggestions Interim City Manager Hooper can make in that regard would be very helpful. He feels it is an important issue. Councilman Roberts spoke about intergovernmental communications with the County. He feels that is why they have the organizations that a Councilmember has to be appointed to such as VCOG and MPO. Councilwoman Lichter spoke about there not always being the best relationship on various items with the County. Interim City Manager Hooper spoke about an item being withdrawn from the agenda pertaining to paying $25,000 fee for licensing ambulances. Councilwoman Lichter stated she feels, if her other Councilmembers agree, that the library parking lot could be brought up on the agenda at the next meeting. Councilman Roberts feels they need to schedule a workshop on a new fire station. He feels they need to take a serious look at that situation. Interim City Manager Hooper asked if the Council wanted to try to do a work session as part of the regular meeting. On a Monday night take a half hour or hour and do the agenda items first and hold a work session as they wind up or they could schedule a separate meeting. Mayor Allman stated he would rather schedule a separate evening for a workshop. It was the consensus of Council that Monday nights are best. Councilman Gornto asked Interim City Manager Hooper if the FIND project is on his list. Interim city Manager Hooper stated it is not on the list to bring back but he has met so far with two individuals from FIND and that one is in our court waiting for a grant application to be filled out. It will be brought back very soon. Councilman Roberts questioned if that is the grant application for the matching funds that FIND is putting in. Interim city Manager Hooper explained what we have right now is the FIND program and what they want to do is develop an industrial park. They have agreed to put up a million dollars. Page -13- Council Regular Meeting October 20, 1997 "-" ..""" Councilman Roberts asked if they have to wait for the grant process before they can proceed with the first million dollars that is available and get this underway as far as actual site construction. Interim City Manager Hooper informed him yes. Councilman Roberts feels this is a critical issue and should be pushed as rapidly as possible. The FIND project has been on the table much too long. Mike Visconti, 316 pine Breeze Drive, questioned if the new Council will be involved in the wastewater treatment plant being built south of Oak Hill. He spoke about using our facilities to go down to south of Oak Hill. Councilwoman Lichter stated she thinks they are planning to build a sewer treatment plant but there are still negotiations going on for the City to sell water. Councilman Roberts spoke about some of staff considering pushing water lines further south than the City limits and creating a revenue from selling water. He feels eventually Edgewater is going to grow. There are a lot more lots to be developed in Florida Shores. We can't sell too much of our services because we will end up short for our own residents. He feels this needs to be considered. He also feels the sewer plant has its limitations. Interim City Manager Hooper explained utilities Director Terry Wadsworth described to him that the sewer plant is funded by grant money that made it almost impossible to go outside the city or carry it that far. The discussions on water are ongoing right now. All of that will come back to Council for a final decision. Councilman Roberts feels the plants were built oversize to accommodate future growth. He feels they need to be careful. Ed Keenan, 1905 pine Tree Drive, stated the water that was put south was done illegally. There is an ordinance, whether it was codified or not he doesn't know, that said the beneficiaries are supposed to be paying the infrastructure outside the City limits. Mr. McMahon took a couple hundred thousand or more out of the impact fee fund and spent it outside the City. He spoke about having an oversized water plant. He feels the City could sell the water south of here. Mr. Keenan wondered why the City didn't try to sell sewer to New Smyrna Beach. He further spoke about the water and wastewater plant capacities. There was a brief discussion regarding grants restricting the selling of water and wastewater. Councilwoman Lichter spoke about a tour she took of the water and sewer plants and the size of these plants. Interim City Manager Hooper explained the plant was rerated. Andy Anderson, pine Tree Drive, spoke about there being 4,000 people in Edgewater when he bought his home. Now there are more people in New Smyrna Beach than Edgewater. He feels if the city starts selling water it will be in trouble down the road. Mr. Anderson questioned if the City has a liaison for grants between this City and state and federal government. Mr. Karet explained the individual department handles their own grants. The Planning Department handles background information but typically each individual department handles their own grants. ADJOURNMENT There being no further business to discuss, Councilman Gornto moved to adjourn, second by Councilman Roberts. The motion CARRIED 4-0. Minutes submitted by Lisa Kruckmeyer Page -14- Council Regular Meeting October 20, 1997