10-20-1997 - Regular
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CITY COUNCIL OF EDGEWATER
REGULAR MEETING
OCTOBER 20, 1997
7:00 P.M.
COMMUNITY CENTER
MINUTES
CALL TO ORDER
Mayor Allman called the Regular Meeting to order at 7:00 p.m. in
the Community Center.
ROLL CALL
Mayor Randy Allman
Councilman James Gornto
Councilman Myron Hammond
Councilman Gary Roberts
Councilwoman Judith Lichter
Interim City Attorney Nikki Clayton
Interim City Manager Kenneth Hooper
city Clerk Susan Wadsworth
Lisa Kruckmeyer
Police Chief Lawrence Schumaker
Present
Present
Excused
Present
Present
Present
Present
Excused
Present
Present
INVOCATION. PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE
At this time, there was a silent invocation and pledge of
allegiance to the Flag.
APPROVAL OF MINUTES
A. Regular Meeting of October 6, 1997
Councilwoman Lichter made a motion to approve the October 6, 1997
minutes, second by Councilman Roberts.
Councilman Gornto asked that on Page 7 his vote be changed to NO.
He was informed he can not abstain unless there is a conflict of
interest. He voted in protest of what was going on.
Mayor Allman stated it would be proper to amend the motion to
show that. He asked Councilwoman Lichter if she would like to do
the same. Councilwoman Lichter stated no because she feels it
was a conflict for her to vote in an illegal manner. She
believes the vote was illegal so she would stick with her motion.
Mayor Allman questioned if that would have to be placed in
writing. Councilwoman Lichter stated she had to speak to her own
attorney.
Interim City Attorney Clayton explained Councilman Gornto wanted
to have the minutes reflect that he had his vote corrected to a
NO vote instead of an abstention and the correct process among
Councilmembers would be if there is no objection to that, to have
the record reflect that. There were no objections from Council.
The motion CARRIED 4-0.
CITIZEN COMMENTS REGARDING AGENDA ITEMS ONLY
(Other than public hearings)
John Moore, 2354 Fern Palm Drive, thanked Council for having an
invocation and pledge of allegiance.
Mr. Moore spoke about board appointments. He realizes how
crucial it is to have a full board to conduct business properly.
He believes it is crucial to have the boards made up of a diverse
array of qualified people and that the boards be made up of
people throughout the City.
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Mr. Moore spoke about the Economic Development Board. They
amended their bylaws so they could develop a process to review
applicants and to make recommendations to Council. He requested
Council make no appointments until they talk to the Board
members.
Mr. Moore went on to speak about the agenda format. He suggested
Council have one organized, civil meeting under the old format
before they decide on any changes. He was ashamed after the last
meeting because he could not make his comments without being
associated with a lot of bad things being said.
Dick Martinez, 317 Schooner Avenue, agreed with Mr. Moore. He
would like to know more about the revision of the agenda before
Council makes any changes. He feels the agenda as it has been
has worked and he would object to any change.
Paul Jenkins, Willow Oak Drive, agreed with the former two
speakers. He would like to hear the discussion and proposed
changes and let the public have a couple meetings to put input
into it and see what they think before they decide on a new
format.
Karl Gerwe, Chairman, Economic Development Board, spoke about
board appointments. He requested Council postpone their choices
for the EDB until they have a chance to review the new
applicants.
Mayor Allman asked if they were to table the appointments until
the applicants can be looked at, will it create a problem with
the boards meeting as far as having a quorum.
Interim City Attorney Clayton stated she doesn't believe any
quorum issues have been brought to her attention. She suggested
Council wait until this matter comes up on the agenda to get into
discussion.
Mr. Moore stated the only Board that doesn't have a quorum is the
Beautification & Tree Committee and they haven't had a full board
in a long time.
Mike Visconti, 316 pine Breeze Drive, questioned if there still
is a Beautification Committee. In the past year, there have been
no meetings of the Beautification Committee. He asked if it is
dissolved or became a part of another committee.
Councilman Roberts stated he believes they still have a board.
Ms. Kruckmeyer explained there currently is no one on that board
and Mr. Visconti's term has expired as well.
Councilman Roberts stated he would like more people to join Mr.
Visconti on the board. He feels they will find some volunteers
after they review the applications.
Councilwoman Lichter stated she received a letter from a
gentleman who applied to that board and has never heard back. He
sounds very qualified. She spoke about having a liaison from the
Council to some of the committees and boards that are quasi legal
that are not legal in any sense and perhaps that could give them
the impetus to get going and see what we need.
CITY COUNCIL REPORTS
Councilwoman Lichter spoke about DBCC offering workshops
regarding parliamentary procedure. She feels they can all profit
from such a course. She asked that Interim City Manager Hooper
look into the possibility of DBCC coming and offering a course to
the new Council.
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Council Regular Meeting
October 20, 1997
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Councilwoman Lichter spoke about having a more professional means
of picking people to serve on boards and commissions. She spoke
about all of the commissions requiring a certain expertise or
some general knowledge and our application form doesn't seem to
address that. She has come from a community where they interview
all the applicants at an open workshop type meeting. She feels
they need to hear from the Chairmen to see what their needs are
and they need to hear from Council regarding what their goals
are.
Councilwoman Lichter made a motion to postpone until the November
3rd meeting all of the applications and in the interim they have
the opportunity to meet the applicants and the Chairmen of the
commissions.
Interim City Attorney Clayton explained as far as making a motion
at an appropriate time, a Councilman is perfectly able to make a
motion at any time he sees fit. It is just a question of whether
it is an appropriate time in the flow of the meeting and whether
all information and discussion is there.
Councilwoman Lichter spoke about appointing members from the
whole City. In the past, this was done in a very loose manner.
She spoke about the appointment process in the past. She feels
it would be more professional if they had the opportunity to meet
the applicants.
Councilwoman Lichter reiterated her motion to postpone until
November 3rd any considerations to filling boards and commissions
excluding the commissions the Council has to represent themselves
with other cities.
Interim City Attorney Clayton explained in order to talk about
the motion they need a second for discussion purposes and then
proceed to determine whether that motion or a motion in another
format goes up or down.
Mayor Allman reiterated the motion to suspend the appointments of
any of the boards until the next scheduled meeting excluding the
appointment to the Volusia Council of Governments, Metropolitan
Planning Organization, Metropolitan Planning Organization
citizens Advisory Committee and the alternate to the Volusian
Water Alliance Board of Representatives.
Councilman Roberts seconded the motion.
Councilman Roberts believes they need to meet with what members
exist on the boards and get their input. He likes the idea of
having people from different parts of the City involved in each
board. He spoke about applications that have been received
recently. He believes people have submitted applications because
there is a new Council and they feel it is time to get involved.
He hopes there is enough time between now and the next meeting to
meet with some of the boards. He questioned if it would be
proper for all Councilmembers to meet with the advisory boards.
They are public meetings and we are in an open forum.
Interim City Manager Hooper explained if their meetings are
advertised it is appropriate for Council to show up or if they
want to appoint a liaison from the Council to each of those, so
they have someone who can go to a particular meeting. A variety
of methods work. If Council wants someone to come and have just
a work session to interview all applicants, any of those formats
work.
Councilman Roberts asked if all advisory board meetings are
advertised as open public meetings. Interim City Manager Hooper
stated he would think they are.
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Council Regular Meeting
October 20, 1997
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Councilman Roberts feels they need to move in that direction and
get more input.
Councilman Gornto stated he would be concerned unless it is
advertised as a Council workshop. If two or more Councilmembers
show up and they discuss something that is going to come back
before Council they are back in the same suit.
Interim City Attorney Clayton stated she is wondering whether the
issue is the method in which Council will make appointments or
input from the members from the volunteer boards as to what their
needs are and suggestions from them as to how Council might
consider making appointments. It can be done by geography,
population, subject matter of interest or by training experience
expertise. There are various boards that have different kinds of
requirements. She stated that may be something that Council
would like to do some fact finding and come back in Council
session to discuss whether or not the process Council has now for
making appointments is what they wish to continue doing.
Interim City Attorney Clayton
appointing board members. If
process, then it is in place.
another manner, Council might
say.
explained the process for
Council wants to continue the
If they would like to proceed in
listen to what the boards have to
Councilwoman Lichter explained her motion in her mind is clear.
What Interim City Attorney Clayton has mentioned is a slightly
different thought. Her motion in actuality was before the
November 3rd meeting to meet with the Chairmen as well as the
applicants. The captured thought of meeting with the chairmen
before them of these various committees makes sense because their
needs may be different. The EDB has laid out very clearly the
areas of expertise they need to constitute their board.
Councilwoman Lichter suggested taking this one bite at a time.
She feels they should have a meeting to just talk to the Chairmen
between now and the next meeting and they can tell us their
various needs and we can set something in motion. She is very
hesitant at this point hearing of change. She feels it would be
better to meet with the Chairmen between now and November 3rd.
Interim City Attorney Clayton explained the only reason she went
to the degree she did in the discussion of what the question
might be. She wasn't hearing what the issue was clearly and she
heard a motion maker and a second having some difference in their
understanding.
Councilman Roberts feels they should meet with not only the
Chairmen but the other members as well. He feels they would get
more input that way.
Mayor Allman stated the motion as he understood it was to
postpone or suspend the appointments until the next meeting
giving Council a chance to speak with department heads.
Councilman
and invite
with that.
motion was
Gornto questioned why they couldn't hold a workshop
all of the committees. Mayor Allman sees no problem
The only thing he is saying is that the original
to avoid the appointments this evening.
Councilman Gornto suggested amending the motion to say a workshop
on a certain date to meet with the committees.
Councilman Roberts questioned if they would be able to get all
the review done of all the committees at one workshop. There are
a lot of boards, a lot of people to listen to and a lot of
applicants. Perhaps it would take two or so workshops in order
to get it all in. Councilman Gornto suggested starting with one
and going from there. Councilwoman Lichter suggested starting
with the committees that have the needs at the moment.
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October 20, 1997
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Councilwoman Lichter stated she can eat her original motion if
her second would take it off. The only part she feels should
stick at the moment is the postponing until the November 3rd
meeting. She suggested setting a date to meet with the Chairmen
in an orderly manner and the members of that committee.
Councilman Roberts suggested meeting with the boards themselves
in the workshop. He asked Interim City Manager Hooper to
schedule a workshop for them.
Interim City Manager Hooper suggested picking a date while they
are at the meeting. He suggested the week of October 27th.
Councilman Roberts feels it would be wise for Councilman Hammond
to be involved too. He feels they should schedule the workshop
after his return. Interim City Manager Hooper stated he thinks
Councilman Hammond is due back this week and suggested October
29th.
Mayor Allman reiterated the motion to be suspending the
appointments to the boards listed under Item 7A, 7B, 7G, 7H until
the next meeting of Council and to schedule a workshop with all
of the concerned board chairmen and board members until October
29th at 7:00 p.m. in the Community Center. He asked if that is
the motion.
Councilwoman Lichter stated that is fine, second by Councilman
Roberts.
The motion CARRIED 4-0.
Councilwoman Lichter spoke about a request from Finance
Director/Assistant city Manager Fred Munoz to assume his duties
as he sees them as implied by the last Council to act as Manager
in this community while they place an ad and look for a permanent
one. This is not an agenda item. She feels it should be an
agenda item and suggested putting this on an upcoming agenda.
Mayor Allman sees no problem with that. Councilwoman Lichter
stated the sooner the better. If there is room, she would like
it placed on the November 3rd agenda. If not, two weeks after
that. She feels the discussion of this item would help morale
and perhaps save some money and reward a person in this community
that has been very loyal for a good many years.
Councilman Roberts spoke about the agenda format. He feels
people are jumping the gun. He feels if they realize what
Council can do to change the agenda format, it would make it a
lot easier for the citizens. The basic idea was to allow people
to speak on agenda items as they come up. Not in one lump sum up
front.
Councilman Roberts feels citizens comments would be more
effective discussing an item when it is brought up on the agenda
instead of at the beginning of the meeting due to the time it may
take to get to that item. The impact of the comments will not be
considered but forgotten by a lot of people.
Councilman Roberts spoke about the City Charter. He feels they
need to set up a review committee and start looking over the
Charter. The Charter is not carved in stone. It is a living
document, no different than our Constitution. It can be amended
and changed. It has to work with the community. He feels this
is something Council needs to work on.
Councilman Gornto stated the information he has received are the
resumes of the Interim City Manager and Interim City Attorney.
Unless it is in the mass of papers he received, he is still not
aware of the compensation package or what contractual obligations
we have. If that is known at this point, he feels the whole
Council should know.
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Councilman Gornto also feels the request of Finance
Director/Assistant City Manager Fred Munoz should be placed on
the next agenda for consideration.
Councilman Gornto believes Council should come up with a standard
of what is allowable in this chamber and what is not. He feels
what occurred at the last meeting was terrible. There were
public outbursts. Councilman Hammond was trying to speak and two
gentlemen sitting in the front said to him resign and if it is
too hot in the kitchen get out. There is nothing wrong with what
they said but he doesn't feel that is proper demeanor. This is
not a town hall meeting in New England, this is a representative
form of government. He recommended to Mayor Allman that any
outbursts or any talking or any additional business going on in
this room, we should ask the people to go through the doors and
if they don't, to be escorted out by the Police and not be
allowed in the meeting again. This is very serious business. He
respects everyone's opinion but you can't conduct business in
chaos. Mayor Allman concurred.
Interim City Manager Hooper explained right
have a contract and is under no obligation.
contract on November 3rd as well as Interim
Clayton.
now the City doesn't
He will present a
City Attorney
Mayor Allman agreed with Councilman Gornto regarding the last
meeting. It is very difficult stepping into the shoes of a
former Mayor such as Jack Hayman who he highly respects. It is
very difficult to control a crowd such as they had where the
emotions were very high on both sides. He felt it was in the
best interest of the crowd to let people say what they had to say
without banging the gavel. It was a very volatile situation. He
feels if anyone would have been escorted out the door, there
could have been a very ugly situation. He felt he handled it as
well as it could be handled.
Mayor Allman stated all in all the meeting went, in his opinion,
as well as could be expected considering everything that went on.
We will learn parliamentary procedure as we go along. He hopes
they never have another meeting like the last meeting. Everyone
has a right to speak and will get a chance to speak but they all
have a right to respect the person that is speaking. We will
learn together and with the help of the public another meeting
like the last meeting won't happen.
Councilman Roberts agreed with Mayor Allman and Councilman
Gornto. He feels they need more order at the meetings.
PUBLIC HEARINGS. ORDINANCES AND RESOLUTIONS
A. Request for grant of variance from shorelines buffer and
impervious surface, Res. 97-R-27 (Continued from 10/6/97 meeting)
Community Development Director Mark Karet made a staff
presentation. staff supports the applicant's request and
recommends approval of this variance.
Councilman Gornto asked if there are any wetlands on this piece
of property. Mr. Karet explained there is a witness line which
is essentially the mean high water line. There is a dash-line
east of that. Between those two lines, there are wetlands.
There is a buffer associated with the wetlands which is 25 feet.
Councilman Gornto stated it is amazing this property is so close
to the river and there is no wetlands other than just right at
the shore line.
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councilman Roberts commented on the setback lines coming off the
east side. If the 50' ruling was enforced, this basically
becomes a useless piece of land to the applicants. He spoke
about this being very limited use which would be a financial
hardship on the owners. He sees no problem with this request.
The key is the water retention area to the east which will
collect any runoff from the roof lines and so forth and keep it
out of the river.
Councilwoman Lichter asked if they want a motion and then
discussion. Interim City Attorney Clayton stated she feels it
would be fair to hear from the applicant first.
Luis Geil, 2105 Saxon Drive, New Smyrna Beach, representative,
informed Council he is available to answer any questions.
Mayor Allman had no questions and felt the presentation was
adequate.
Mayor Allman entertained a motion with regard to there being no
further questions.
Interim City Attorney Clayton informed Council they may also want
to hear from members of the public due to this being a public
hearing and see if there is anyone to speak regarding this item.
Paul Jenkins, willow Oak Drive, stated if these people were not
allowed to build it may come under that situation where they
could sue for the property being useless over 50%.
Interim City Attorney Clayton stated she hopes they won't have to
answer that question.
Herbert Geier, 1204 S. Riverside Drive, informed Council they are
very anxious to get started.
Councilman Roberts made a motion to grant the variance, second by
Councilwoman Lichter. The motion CARRIED 4-0.
CONSENT AGENDA
A. Request to transfer $1,000 from special Law Enforcement Trust
Fund to Police Department to defray cost of protracted or complex
investigations
Councilman Roberts asked if the funds will be returned at a later
date into the original account they come out of. Interim City
Manager Hooper explained it is set up as a law enforcement trust
fund which has restricted use.
Councilman Roberts asked how often the transfer requests come in.
Police Chief Schumaker explained the last time they transferred
$1,000 was 16 months ago. He explained the funds are spent for
protracted and involved investigations.
Councilwoman Lichter questioned when they do the Consent Agenda,
if the approve all items with one motion. Mayor Allman explained
it can be done but each one would probably require some
explanation.
Interim City Attorney Clayton explained the Consent Agenda
generally can be taken in one lump motion with the chair asking
for any members desiring to pull an item from the agenda for
individual discussion.
Councilman Gornto moved for approval, second by Councilman
Roberts. The motion CARRIED 4-0.
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B. Settlement regarding Elizabeth A. Hill and Harvey Lee Hill vs
Marjorie E. Stilwell, Arnold Stilwell, and City of Edgewater
Interim City Attorney Clayton explained this relates to a meeting
that was held recently categorized as a meeting in the shade
which is contemplated by the Florida Statutes when a settlement
discussion takes place between the Council and its attorney.
After discussion and a decision being reached at that meeting
then the results if they cause an impact over $5,000 are brought
back to a meeting in the public. You have before you an item in
which the Council has agreed that they would like to consider a
settlement for an amount of $7,500 in this matter and the
discussion was full and complete with the Council during the
shade meeting however, if there are any questions regarding
further explanation, that is the purpose of the item being on the
agenda.
Councilman Gornto moved for approval, second by Councilwoman
Lichter. The motion CARRIED 4-0.
C. Retaining Dean, Ringers, Morgan and Lawton in reference to
Lorraine Wiley vs Joseph Keller, Loretta Keller, Radnor
Corporation and City of Edgewater
Interim City Attorney Clayton explained the case pertaining to
the retaining of Dean, Ringers, Morgan and Lawton.
Councilwoman Lichter stated she lives in Edgewater Landing and
has no knowledge of this case nor benefit in any way from it.
Councilman Roberts questioned how Joseph & Loretta Keller fall
into this picture. Interim City Attorney Clayton explained they
installed the sprinkler that extends into the City right-of-way.
Councilman Roberts questioned if there is a dollar amount in the
suit that has been named yet. Interim City Attorney Clayton
explained in these it is traditional just to name an in excess of
a certain amount.
Councilwoman Lichter moved for approval, second by Councilman
Gornto. The motion CARRIED 4-0.
OTHER BOSINESS
A. Appointments to Land Development and Planning Agency due to
election to Council of Judith Lichter and resignation of Edna
Hickox (Continued from 10/6/97 meeting)
This item has been postponed until the November 3rd meeting.
B. Appointment to Firefighters Pension Board due to expiration
of term of Patricia Richards. who requests reappointment
(Continued from 10/6/97 meeting)
This item has been postponed until the November 3rd meeting.
C. Appointment to Volusia Council of Governments
Mayor Allman asked if it would be appropriate to postpone these
four items until a full Council is available and they could call
a special Meeting to handle this.
Interim City Manager Hooper informed Mayor Allman they could do
that at the next meeting if they wish to.
Mayor Allman entertained a motion to have these postponed until
the November 3rd meeting.
Councilman Gornto so moved, second by Councilman Roberts. The
motion CARRIED 4-0. Page -8-
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D. Appointment to Metropolitan Planning Organization
This item was postponed until the November 3rd meeting.
E. Appointment to Metropolitan Planning Organization citizens
Advisory Committee due to resignation of Elmer Rector
This item was postponed until the November 3rd meeting.
F. Appointment of member and alternate to Volusian Water
Alliance Board of Representatives
This item was postponed until the November 3rd meeting.
G. Recommendations of Economic Development Board for
appointments to fill three vacant positions
This item was postponed until the November 3rd meeting.
H. Appointment to General Employees Pension Board due to
expiration of term of Rev. Harvey Hardin, who does not wish
reappointment
This item was postponed until the November 3rd meeting.
I. Request to purchase three 1998 Ford Crown victoria police
package pursuit vehicles from Mike Shad Ford using Florida
Sheriff's Association bid
Interim City Manager Hooper elaborated on there being time limits
where they will order certain quantities and the first in gets
those quantities so you are getting a reduced price by a
statewide bid.
Councilman Roberts questioned what is done with the vehicles that
the new ones will be replacing. Chief Schumaker explained the
three vehicles in question have very high mileage. We keep the
two best cars that we have for spares and then put the spares up
for auction. Occasionally the unit will go to another department
in the City if they want it. He explained the cars are used for
24 hours a day unless someone is on vacation. Even though the
mileage is high, there are far more miles on the motor because of
the hours spent on accident investigations where the vehicle is
idle.
Councilman Roberts asked if this is included in the budget.
Interim city Manager Hooper informed him it is contained within
their budget. Chief Schumaker explained it is less than the
anticipated price because the vehicles didn't go up quite as high
as was expected. The urgency of the request is due to the fact
that it will take anywhere between 4 and 7 months for delivery.
Councilwoman Lichter asked if there is a chance that even if they
put in their application now there won't be any available. Chief
Schumaker explained it is not likely. Most cities went into the
same fiscal year as we did. If they can get the order in, he
feels comfortable they will be fine.
Interim City Manager Hooper recommended approval.
Mayor Allman would like to encompass in the motion Items 71 and
7J.
J. Request to purchase one 1998 Ford Taurus Detective vehicle
(non-pursuit) from Don Reid Ford using Florida Sheriff's
Association bid
Councilwoman Lichter made a motion to approve Items 71 and 7J,
second by Councilman Gornto. The motion CARRIED 4-0.
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K. Discussion of Res. 95-R-02 re: agenda format
Interim City Manager Hooper explained he is responsible for
putting this on the agenda for discussion.
Interim City Manager Hooper explained he has examples of a
Consent Agenda coming to him from other cities as to the format
they use. He explained this is on the agenda strictly for
discussion.
Councilwoman Lichter feels sometimes the citizens don't know
where they are supposed to speak. She spoke about citizen
Comments Regarding Agenda Items Only, Consent Agenda and Other
Business and citizens not knowing when to speak. She feels they
need to come up with something definite and clarify where the
citizens need to speak.
Councilwoman Lichter feels they need to have a meeting just to
hear from the people. She suggested going into their respective
districts or zones and hear from the people on anything they have
to say.
Councilman Roberts also spoke about citizen Comments Regarding
Agenda Items Only and questioned if this is where people speak
about items on the Consent Agenda. Interim City Attorney Clayton
explained she believes it is on any item that they wish to speak
to. She further spoke about citizens being able to speak
regarding anything on the agenda regarding the first section of
citizen comments other than during public hearings. She thinks
the practice has been that citizens can address anything. She is
not sure whether or not in the past they have asked the Council
to pull a matter out from the Consent Agenda so it would get
special attention.
Councilman Roberts stated citizens have two times that they can
comment. He feels citizens should comment when the item is being
discussed on the agenda, that way people know when they can
speak. He spoke about the meeting where the Mango Tree Drive
petition for paving was discussed and they didn't know when they
were to speak. He spoke about citizen comments being fresh in
the Council's mind. He feels they should change the way citizen
comments are brought about regarding agenda items. He sees no
problem with keeping the general comments at the end of the
meeting.
Councilman Gornto explained the Charter requires the City Council
shall determine its own rules and order of business except that
the agenda for regular Council meetings shall include citizen
Comments in the beginning and directly prior to adjournment. He
agreed with Councilman Roberts. He feels it is much clearer to
have discussion on an item when it is being looked at by Council.
He feels they need to change the paragraph in the Charter or
provide citizen comments in the beginning, during each item and
at the end of the meeting.
Councilwoman Lichter feels unless an item was on an agenda,
citizens were not allowed in the most recent past to speak to it
until the end. The Charter does say the citizens can say, within
legal bounds, anything they want even if an item isn't on the
agenda. She feels the terminology is confusing. We can make our
own rules as long as they don't go against the Charter. She
feels there is room to work with.
Councilwoman Lichter feels they need to have some kind of rule
regarding petitions and individuals speaking for a certain period
of time or one person speak for a group of people.
Councilwoman Lichter spoke about the petition regarding Mango
Tree Drive and there not being a chance for it to be presented.
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Councilman Roberts asked if the Charter can be changed by vote of
Councilor is it something that would involve a referendum to
modify the Charter to just fine tune the way the agenda is
handled.
Interim City Attorney Clayton explained they would have to have a
Charter amendment and it would have to be done in the way the
Charter is amended which is a vote by the people so you would
have to develop the amendment through the amendment process. She
is not sure all of the ways the Charter amendment could be
proposed. The Charter can only be amended by a vote of the
people, not by a vote of the Council. However, in order to
achieve input from the public, it doesn't require a Charter
change because you can retain the citizen input to begin with and
it occurred to her that may have been there so people could speak
to items on the Consent Agenda which generally are one blanket
motion at the time it comes up.
Interim City Attorney Clayton spoke about Interim City Manager
Hooper passing out procedures that are used in other
jurisdictions that might give Council some food for thought and
they can come back with further questions regarding how Edgewater
compares to procedures used in other jurisdictions.
Interim City Attorney Clayton explained in Seminole County the
Chairman reads the rules of the meeting right up front at every
meeting.
Councilman Roberts stated so for the time being, it might be wise
to throw in a third citizen comments during the agenda items and
in the mean time, if we are going to be doing Charter reviews,
that is something that can come into play when the overall
Charter is looked at.
Councilwoman Lichter spoke about people having a thought or idea
regarding something that is not on the agenda. For some reason,
they feel the way this is written, they have to wait until late
in the night. She wants to make it clear that our Charter does
not give that kind of limitation. There is no reference to an
item on the agenda only in our Charter.
Councilman Roberts feels if people would want to speak early on
in the meeting about an agenda item that would not be heard for a
couple of hours that is their choice. They might find their
comments are much more effective if they have the time to stick
around and speak when that item comes up for discussion.
Interim City Manager Hooper questioned if he is hearing they are
basically satisfied with the current format but they want more
public input closer to the vote. He informed Council he could
show them two or three styles that are similar to that at the
next meeting.
Paul Jenkins, willow Oak Drive, agreed there should be comments
when an item comes up. He would like to see it after the staff's
presentation because a lot of times a citizen may have something
put on the agenda and he is allowed to speak because it is his
item on the agenda. He spoke about a citizen counteracting
comments made by staff and not having that opportunity before the
vote.
Councilman Roberts feels they should have the ability to comment
before or after staff at their choice because you would not vote
until all citizens had their opportunity to speak on that agenda
item.
GENERAL CITIZEN COMMENTS/CORRESPONDENCE
Andy Anderson asked Chief Schumaker the cost of the new vehicles.
Chief Schumaker informed him they are $18,000 plus each.
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Mayor Allman stated they are getting the cars at an exceptional
price.
Mayor Allman commended Jack Corder for the new PA system.
John Moore, 2354 Fern Palm Drive, thanked Council. This is the
first Council meeting he has attended in six months where he
wasn't frustrated.
Adelaide Carter, 1705 Dayton street, felt it was an unfair
comment to make to Mr. visconti informing him he was no longer on
the Committee due to his term expiring. She spoke about Mr.
visconti being instrumental in getting the fountain put at the
corner of D.S #1 and SR 442. She doesn't feel that was a
necessary comment because of the work he has done on the
Beautification Committee.
Interim city Attorney Clayton explained ordinarily the process is
that a member serves even after his term expires until his
successor is appointed. She thinks Mr. visconti could consider
to be still serving as a member of that board until his successor
or he is reappointed.
George Ewing, 2923 Royal Palm Drive, stated he hasn't attended a
Council meeting in two years. He spoke about attending most of
the meetings for six years before that. The reason he stopped
attending Council meetings was because of the restriction on
citizen comments. He feels the new Council is taking the proper
approach to citizen comments. The Charter specifically says that
you can speak before and after the meeting. He suggested Council
advertise for boards and let the public know how many openings
there are on every board.
Councilman Roberts feels this is a good idea.
Councilwoman Lichter spoke about improving the application.
OFFICER REPORTS
Lisa Kruckmeyer informed Council there will be a newsletter going
out in the next couple of weeks if they would like to advertise
for boards. Mayor Allman felt that was a good idea.
Interim City Attorney Clayton had nothing at this time.
Interim City Manager Hooper stated he would like to seek some
dates to put his matters of concern on a work session. He
presented a report on the Charter review, city Attorney report
regarding in-house or outside legal counsel, the expansion of the
Library parking lot, Budget update, new fire station site, and
community goal setting.
Councilwoman Lichter feels the boards and commissions must be
filled. She questioned if they really need a workshop regarding
the expansion of the Library parking lot. She questioned if it
could be placed on the next agenda. Interim City Manager Hooper
stated he thinks it could be placed on the agenda. It could be
placed in a work session on that agenda. He is trying to find
out if Council needs a work session or if they know enough for
him to place it on an agenda.
Mayor Allman stated it is
but the citizens as well.
workshop would be good to
participate.
not only how comfortable the Council is
If they don't know what is going on a
allow the public to come in and
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Council Regular Meeting
October 20, 1997
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Councilman Roberts stated the library parking lot is all County
money. Interim City Manager Hooper explained the issue is the
County is giving the City money and it is almost a fixed fee to
go build and not to exceed. Councilman Roberts stated if we can
do it with the funds the County is giving the City, the City will
benefit without money out of our pocket. He feels this should be
addressed as soon as possible.
Councilwoman Lichter spoke about problems she feels exist between
the cities in Volusia County and the County. She would like to
better that relationship. She spoke about having a meeting with
the County.
Councilwoman Lichter spoke about Charter review. She feels
mainly what needs to be done in the next two weeks is getting the
boards and commissions filled and putting themselves on some of
these commissions so they can with dignity represent Edgewater.
She feels if they have a consensus that a Charter Review
Committee would be needed, they could request applications for
that as well in the newsletter.
Interim City Manager Hooper stated the question is if Council
wants to create a Charter Revision Committee. Councilman Roberts
stated any suggestions Interim City Manager Hooper can make in
that regard would be very helpful. He feels it is an important
issue.
Councilman Roberts spoke about intergovernmental communications
with the County. He feels that is why they have the
organizations that a Councilmember has to be appointed to such as
VCOG and MPO.
Councilwoman Lichter spoke about there not always being the best
relationship on various items with the County.
Interim City Manager Hooper spoke about an item being withdrawn
from the agenda pertaining to paying $25,000 fee for licensing
ambulances.
Councilwoman Lichter stated she feels, if her other
Councilmembers agree, that the library parking lot could be
brought up on the agenda at the next meeting.
Councilman Roberts feels they need to schedule a workshop on a
new fire station. He feels they need to take a serious look at
that situation.
Interim City Manager Hooper asked if the Council wanted to try to
do a work session as part of the regular meeting. On a Monday
night take a half hour or hour and do the agenda items first and
hold a work session as they wind up or they could schedule a
separate meeting. Mayor Allman stated he would rather schedule a
separate evening for a workshop.
It was the consensus of Council that Monday nights are best.
Councilman Gornto asked Interim City Manager Hooper if the FIND
project is on his list. Interim city Manager Hooper stated it is
not on the list to bring back but he has met so far with two
individuals from FIND and that one is in our court waiting for a
grant application to be filled out. It will be brought back very
soon.
Councilman Roberts questioned if that is the grant application
for the matching funds that FIND is putting in. Interim city
Manager Hooper explained what we have right now is the FIND
program and what they want to do is develop an industrial park.
They have agreed to put up a million dollars.
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Council Regular Meeting
October 20, 1997
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Councilman Roberts asked if they have to wait for the grant
process before they can proceed with the first million dollars
that is available and get this underway as far as actual site
construction. Interim City Manager Hooper informed him yes.
Councilman Roberts feels this is a critical issue and should be
pushed as rapidly as possible. The FIND project has been on the
table much too long.
Mike Visconti, 316 pine Breeze Drive, questioned if the new
Council will be involved in the wastewater treatment plant being
built south of Oak Hill. He spoke about using our facilities to
go down to south of Oak Hill.
Councilwoman Lichter stated she thinks they are planning to build
a sewer treatment plant but there are still negotiations going on
for the City to sell water.
Councilman Roberts spoke about some of staff considering pushing
water lines further south than the City limits and creating a
revenue from selling water. He feels eventually Edgewater is
going to grow. There are a lot more lots to be developed in
Florida Shores. We can't sell too much of our services because
we will end up short for our own residents. He feels this needs
to be considered. He also feels the sewer plant has its
limitations.
Interim City Manager Hooper explained utilities Director Terry
Wadsworth described to him that the sewer plant is funded by
grant money that made it almost impossible to go outside the city
or carry it that far. The discussions on water are ongoing right
now. All of that will come back to Council for a final decision.
Councilman Roberts feels the plants were built oversize to
accommodate future growth. He feels they need to be careful.
Ed Keenan, 1905 pine Tree Drive, stated the water that was put
south was done illegally. There is an ordinance, whether it was
codified or not he doesn't know, that said the beneficiaries are
supposed to be paying the infrastructure outside the City limits.
Mr. McMahon took a couple hundred thousand or more out of the
impact fee fund and spent it outside the City. He spoke about
having an oversized water plant. He feels the City could sell
the water south of here.
Mr. Keenan wondered why the City didn't try to sell sewer to New
Smyrna Beach. He further spoke about the water and wastewater
plant capacities.
There was a brief discussion regarding grants restricting the
selling of water and wastewater.
Councilwoman Lichter spoke about a tour she took of the water and
sewer plants and the size of these plants. Interim City Manager
Hooper explained the plant was rerated.
Andy Anderson, pine Tree Drive, spoke about there being 4,000
people in Edgewater when he bought his home. Now there are more
people in New Smyrna Beach than Edgewater. He feels if the city
starts selling water it will be in trouble down the road.
Mr. Anderson questioned if the City has a liaison for grants
between this City and state and federal government. Mr. Karet
explained the individual department handles their own grants.
The Planning Department handles background information but
typically each individual department handles their own grants.
ADJOURNMENT
There being no further business to discuss, Councilman Gornto
moved to adjourn, second by Councilman Roberts. The motion
CARRIED 4-0.
Minutes submitted by
Lisa Kruckmeyer
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October 20, 1997