10-16-1995 - Regular
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CITY COUNCIL OF EDGEWATER
REGULAR MEETING
OCTOBER 16, 1995
7:00 P.M.
COMMUNITY CENTER
MINUTES
CALL TO ORDER:
Mayor Hayman called the Regular Meeting to order at 7:00 p.m. in
the Community Center.
ROLL CALL:
Mayor Jack Hayman
Councilman Danny Hatfield
Councilwoman Louise Martin
Councilman Michael Hays
Councilman David Mitchum
City Attorney Krista storey
city Manager George McMahon
City Clerk Susan Wadsworth
Police Chief Lawrence Schumaker
Present
Present
Present
Present
Present
Present
Arrived at 7:10 p.m.
Present
Present
INVOCATION. PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE
The invocation was delivered by Reverend Harvey Hardin, Retired
Edgewater United Methodist Minister. There was a pledge of
allegiance to the Flag.
APPROVAL MINUTES
There were no minutes to be approved.
CITIZEN COMMENTS REGARDING AGENDA ITEMS ONLY
(Other than public hearings)
There were no citizen comments at this time.
CITY COUNCIL REPORTS
Councilwoman Martin
councilwoman Martin had nothing at this time.
Councilman Hays
Councilman Hays had nothing at this time.
Councilman Mitchum
Councilman Mitchum had nothing at this time.
Mayor Hayman
Mayor Hayman had nothing at this time.
Councilman Hatfield
Councilman Hatfield asked to have Item 7C moved up on the agenda.
There were no problems with Council to move Item 7C up on the
agenda.
C. Appoint member to General Employees Pension Board due to
expiration of term of Reverend Harvey Hardin. who requests
reappointment
Councilman Hatfield made a motion to reappoint Reverend Hardin to
the General Employees Pension Board, second by Councilman Hays.
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Councilman Hays thanked Reverend Hardin for the time he has given
this community.
Mayor Hayman stated he thinks they all feel that way.
The motion CARRIED 5-0.
PUBLIC HEARINGS. ORDINANCES AND RESOLUTIONS
A. Resolution No. 95-R-21 Extinguishing drainage easements on
lot 14230. block 460 and Lot 14174. block 457, Florida Shores No.
24 (Tabled Oct. 2, 1995)
Councilman Hatfield made a motion to remove this from the table,
second by Councilwoman Martin.
Mayor Hayman presented the background and staff recommendation
for Res. 95-R-21.
Mayor Hayman read Res. 95-R-21. He informed Council there was a
drawing of the lots in question depicting the easements under
consideration in the packet.
Councilman Mitchum feels this is more of a housekeeping matter
that would interfere with our road or drainage program.
Councilman Mitchum made a motion to approve Res. 95-R-21, second
by Councilwoman Martin.
Mayor Hayman expressed his concerns with this resolution and
stated his original concerns have been met.
The motion CARRIED 5-0.
B. Resolution No. 95-R-22 Authorizing Mayor to sign utility
relocation agreement with Florida Department of Transportation
Mayor Hayman presented the background for Res. 95-R-22.
Mayor Hayman read Res. 95-R-22.
Councilman Hatfield made a motion to approve Res. 95-R-22, second
by Councilwoman Martin.
Councilman Hays agreed with Mayor Hayman that this a dangerous
intersection. He would like to see a light placed at this
intersection.
Mayor Hayman offered to get in touch with the Metropolitan
Planning organization to see what the City has to do to get a
light at this intersection.
The motion CARRIED 5-0.
CONSENT AGENDA
A. Yearly rental of storage unit for Parks and Recreation
B. Edgewater Alliance Church gymnatorium usage agreement
C. Purchase of Angus fire house from Ten-8 Fire Equipment for
$3.054 and determine provider is sole source supplier
D. Amendment to AT&T equipment agreement for Department of Fire
and Rescue Services
Councilman Mitchum moved for approval of the consent agenda,
second by Councilman Hays. The motion CARRIED 5-0.
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Council Regular Meeting
October 16, 1995
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OTHER BUSINESS
A. status report of road improvement project
city Engineer Fegley presented the status report of the road
improvement project. He commented on the schedules which are a
sequence for construction within Part A.
City Engineer Fegley commented on time delays and the problems
due to weather conditions.
City Engineer Fegley spoke about having a number of unexpected
encounters with utilities. He spoke about the utility companies
working diligently with us.
city Engineer Fegley commented on the earth work contractor
wanting some additional contract time. with all feasibility, it
is excusable in accordance with the contract documents. They do
have a reason for that delay.
City Engineer Fegley spoke about the soil cement being put in
place on Hibiscus Drive south of 30th street and from 442 to the
2400 block of Hibiscus.
City Engineer Fegley explained the only monetary item that we
will probably realize in the near future above and beyond the
original scope of work is the approximately 10 ponds we had to
reconfigure that were originally constructed in accordance with
the bid contract documents.
city Engineer Fegley stated we are going to be erecting stop
signs for the north-south traffic on 26th street to allow
construction logistics to move along on that street. It's a
safety precaution to stop traffic.
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Councilman Hays asked the press to help inform the public of the
stop signs.
City Engineer Fegley explained the stops signs are a temporary
measure for construction.
B. Approval of Final Plat for Edgewater Landing Phase 3,
Applicant - The Radnor corporation
Mayor Hayman informed Council of the addendum to this from City
Attorney storey.
Community Development Director Mark Karet gave a brief
presentation regarding this matter.
City Attorney storey commented on the specifics of the
maintenance and improvement agreement regarding what has been
developed with Radnor Corporation.
Mayor Hayman commented on this being a process to help expedite
the process of streamlining so the developer and potential home
owners wouldn't have to wait for an excessive review process.
Councilman Hays moved for approval, second by Councilwoman
Martin. The motion CARRIED 5-0.
C. APpoint member to General Employees Pension Board due to
expiration of term of Reverend Harvey Hardin. who requests
reappointment
This item was handled earlier on the agenda.
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Council Regular Meeting
October 16, 1995
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D. Appoint member to Economic Development Board due to
resignation of Scott Porta. with recommendation of Board to
appoint William H. Fair. III
Councilman Mitchum made a motion to appoint William Fair, III,
second by Councilman Hays. The motion CARRIED 5-0.
GENERAL CITIZEN COMMENTS/CORRESPONDENCE
Mayor Hayman commented on a letter from Mary Havlin, President,
Shuffleboard Club thanking City Manager McMahon and Mr. Corder
for replacing the roof at the head of the shuffleboard courts.
Mike Visconti, 316 pine Breeze Drive, commented on the drainage
problem from Roberts Road to down in front of the school. He
would like to see this taken care of.
Mayor Hayman informed Mr. Visconti that Mr. Fegley and Mr.
Williams are working on that.
City Manager McMahon further commented on the drainage problem.
Jerry Lee Sr., 1731 Airpark Road, commented on the maintenance in
Florida Shores on the drainage areas. He spoke about a meeting
with City Manager McMahon and someone from the maintenance
department to decide the cost and if we could set up some kind of
schedule so there would be some accountability towards
maintaining these areas.
City Manager McMahon stated he will be working with the
department head to put together that information.
Mr. Lee stated he is very surprised that this far into the
program we don't have that information. City Manager McMahon
stated we do have that information. We have planned on it from
the planning standpoint to refine those estimates.
Mr. Lee asked to get with Mr. McMahon like they agreed to before.
City Manager McMahon informed him when he is done. Mr. Lee asked
to be informed when that happens. city Manager McMahon asked Mr.
Lee to leave his number with his secretary.
Mr. Lee commented on the workshop that was held. He wondered if
Council had any response to the workshop.
Mayor Hayman spoke on phone calls he has made to the st. Johns
River Water Management District to ask Mr. Cook if he has any
answer regarding the Council's request for any additional relief
that we may ask for based upon our deliberations from the night
of the workshop. Mr. Fegley followed that up with an official
request from his office. Mr. Cook has been working on flooding
problems in the other eighteen counties that the st. Johns River
Water Management District has.
Mayor Hayman was able to speak to the assistants working with Mr.
Cook. They can not commit until he gets back in the network and
he responds to Mr. Fegley's request. He is convinced st. Johns'
wants to cooperate with our staff, Engineer and citizens of the
community, to help us reach what is right and proper.
Charles Gebelein, 1730 Umbrella Tree Drive, commented on Item 5A
regarding the maximum depth of the ponds being 2 feet and six to
one slopes. Mayor Hayman stated the changes that Mr. Fegley
presented to them on Wednesday, showed a six to one and two feet
which is what is being looked at now.
Mr. Gebelein questioned if that is what is going to be done.
Mayor Hayman stated that is what he is looking at.
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Council Regular Meeting
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Mr. Gebelein questioned new ponds being dug to those dimensions.
Mr. Fegley stated each pond will be anywhere from one to two and
one-half feet. Two on the average. Some of the ponds where we
have a dimension constraint, obviously we can't have a six or
eight to one slop due to a driveway in the right-of-way line but
we are trying to keep a minimum three to one slope.
Mr. Gebelein spoke about not having the ponds where they would be
directly behind the driveways. Is that in action also. Mr.
Fegley stated what we are trying to do there is reduce the width
of the ponds to resemble a swale. Once we get beyond the
driveway twenty or twenty-five feet then we can open it up to the
inlet structure or the downstream pond but yes we are shrinking
that overall dimension to make it look like a common swale.
Jerry Lee, 3047 Juniper Drive, stated the plan has been designed
and approved for four to six years. He questioned if that is
correct. Up until this year, why were homes on side streets
allowed to face those streets and why were driveway accesses
allowed to be placed on those streets. Mr. Karet commented on
setback issues and whether a house is a corner lot or not.
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City Manager McMahon asked how many accesses were done without
appropriate permits. Mr. Karet stated he couldn't give the
number but obviously there are quite a few illegal driveways that
were created without permits. Since the plans came into effect,
probably about one hundred.
Mr. Lee stated he was talking about new homes that were approved
through Public Works and through the other departments in the
city. Those homes could have been eliminated from the effects
where some of us had no choice.
Mr. Lee asked if Council believes this plan is safe for children
or anyone else. Mayor Hayman stated if they didn't believe in
the safety of this program, we wouldn't have it right now.
Mr. Lee asked if they believe they are ruining property value.
Mayor Hayman stated no he does not.
Mr. Lee asked if they know this design will work and if there is
proof. Mayor Hayman stated he is not a professional engineer.
We have spent big money for two design professionals and we have
one in-house that has assured us the water will move from the
higher level to the lower level.
Mr. Lee feels the city has no one to fall back on if this doesn't
work. He understands the design firm that did design this is no
longer involved. If this plan does not work, there is no one to
fall back on except the taxpayers.
City Manager McMahon stated the City has had detention ponds in
the area of the Library for many years. They are far more severe
than any pond that will be put into this project.
Mr. Lee spoke about a child in Brevard County that drowned in a
retention pond.
Mr. Lee read a prepared statement.
Bob Meeker, 2413 Victory Palm Drive, commented on minutes from
the November I, 1993 meeting where Mayor Hayman stated he will
not support creating a bunch of ponds on every east-west street
for children to drown in. Mr. Meeker asked if he has changed his
mind since them.
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Council Regular Meeting
October 16, 1995
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Mayor Hayman stated we
deep a pond is. Mayor
transmitting water and
ponds.
don't have a pond. Mr. Meeker asked how
Hayman stated what we are doing is
swales. They are transmissions, not
There was a discussion regarding the detention ponds being
designed as retention percolation ponds. They are not designed
to be bathtubs.
Councilman Hays spoke about when they were looking at different
concepts of managing stormwater runoff. He went on to explain
detention ponds. He believes this design will work. When this
is done and we are having our normal weather, you may see
children playing in these retention areas but there won't be any
water in them. These won't, a majority of the time, have water
in them.
Councilman Hays further commented on the safety of children. We
are trying to manage the stormwater runoff in the most
financially feasible and effective way we can.
Mr. Meeker stated the city states the east-west roads are public
rights-of-way. In the Florida plat for Florida Shores it states
they are public roads only. He questioned what the north-south
streets are considered. Are they public rights-of-way or are
they public roads only.
City Manager McMahon stated we are not closing off the roads, we
are using it for public purposes as defined by law. It says its
a public right-of-way for that purpose.
Mr. Meeker stated in other words, you could take a north-south
road and use it too. City Manager McMahon explained there is no
reason they would use the north-south roads any differently then
they are being used right now.
City Manager McMahon explained the ponds are a result of the 1973
Water Management Act.
Mr. Meeker stated if there were as many houses on the east-west
streets as there are on the north-south streets, what would we do
then. Mayor Hayman stated we don't have that, thank goodness.
Henry Dardinski, 2704 Sabal Palm Drive, stated no other City has
this particular setup at the present time. He questioned how
they are supposed to know if this plan is going to work. He
suggested drawing up a trial system for one road east and west
and see if it's feasible.
Doris Hill, 112 Lincoln Road, stated it was brought to her
attention that there are people in this City who do not live in
Edgewater Landing who think that they are paying for the debt
service on Edgewater Landing's Clubhouse.
Ms. Hill stated she went home and looked on her tax bill. She
commented on an item that states RecjEndg Land. People thought
that referred to Edgewater Landing.
City Manager McMahon stated you can not take a penny of public
money and expend it on private purposes.
Councilman Hays stated on the County tax bill it has to do with
the County recreational tax and dollars that are spent.
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Council Regular Meeting
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Ray Vath, 2703 Kumquat Drive, spoke about the $6 stormwater fee.
He questioned why the empty lots in Florida Shores don't have to
pay the $6. He stated he was told there is really no way for us
to collect the money. We can't put it on the tax bill. He asked
the Council if they could put a special assessment on their tax
bill for the sewers and a special assessment for the swimming
ponds that are going to be put in, why can't they put a special
assessment on for the $6 per empty lot per month water fee. He
suggested multiplying it by twelve and collecting it once a year.
Mayor Hayman stated they have looked into the legalese of doing
that. Initially we did some preliminaries and if we asked a
resident of an undeveloped lot on a monthly basis, the mail out,
postage and administrative handling was prohibitive because of
the amount of money being collected.
Mayor Hayman stated the options just mentioned by Mr. Vath are
probably a very good thing to look into. city Attorney Storey
has been asked to look at this and report back to us and she can
probably give you a feel for some of the concerns that have been
expressed from the legal point of view.
City Attorney Storey explained it is not possible to place this
on the tax roll due to this being a utility fee. It would not be
deemed legally a special assessment so that is not a mechanism
that is available to the City. There are other collection
methods that we can use.
Councilman Hays stated this was looked at for quite a while and
one of the things we found on charging this fee is that you can
do it on a developed piece of property. He further commented on
developed lots and the formula that was used informing them what
they could charge. It was not feasible. Today we might find
that we may spend thirty two cents to collect fifty.
city Manager McMahon stated annually the city is obligated on
behalf of all of its residents to look at fees and that is one of
the fees that was looked at this past year and it wasn't really
cost justified.
Mr. Vath feels the empty lot is getting full service and paying
nothing. He doesn't see why they can't multiply the $6 times
twelve and add it on the ad valorem tax bill as a special
assessment as the sewer and roadway is. City Attorney Storey
again explained this is not a special assessment, it is a utility
fee.
Dominick capria, 606 Topside Circle, thanked Doris Hill for
straightening a couple of people out. He feels she should have
gone further and explained they have paid for their streets and
that they are being double taxed.
Mike Visconti, 316 pine Breeze Drive, stated the people who own
the empty lots being talked about are paying tax on those lots.
OFFICER REPORTS
City Attorney
City Attorney Storey had nothing at this time.
city Manager
City Manager McMahon encouraged the specific people who are
really interested and concerned about the configuration of the
detention areas, to contact the City Engineer.
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City Clerk
City Clerk Wadsworth had nothing at this time.
OFFICER REPORTS
Councilman Mitchum spoke on the question of will it work. He
feels it will work.
Councilman Hays asked Mayor and Council to inform City Attorney
if there is anything they would like included in the ordinance
regarding solicitation.
Councilman Hays thanked the News Journal for their article and
bringing this before the public.
Councilman Hays wished City Clerk Wadsworth a Happy Birthday.
ADJOURNMENT
There being no further business to discuss, Councilman Mitchum
made a motion to adjourn, second by Councilman Hays. The meeting
adjourned at 8:15 p.m.
Minutes submitted by:
Lisa Kruckmeyer
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October 16, 1995