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10-16-1995 - Regular '-' ....., CITY COUNCIL OF EDGEWATER REGULAR MEETING OCTOBER 16, 1995 7:00 P.M. COMMUNITY CENTER MINUTES CALL TO ORDER: Mayor Hayman called the Regular Meeting to order at 7:00 p.m. in the Community Center. ROLL CALL: Mayor Jack Hayman Councilman Danny Hatfield Councilwoman Louise Martin Councilman Michael Hays Councilman David Mitchum City Attorney Krista storey city Manager George McMahon City Clerk Susan Wadsworth Police Chief Lawrence Schumaker Present Present Present Present Present Present Arrived at 7:10 p.m. Present Present INVOCATION. PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE The invocation was delivered by Reverend Harvey Hardin, Retired Edgewater United Methodist Minister. There was a pledge of allegiance to the Flag. APPROVAL MINUTES There were no minutes to be approved. CITIZEN COMMENTS REGARDING AGENDA ITEMS ONLY (Other than public hearings) There were no citizen comments at this time. CITY COUNCIL REPORTS Councilwoman Martin councilwoman Martin had nothing at this time. Councilman Hays Councilman Hays had nothing at this time. Councilman Mitchum Councilman Mitchum had nothing at this time. Mayor Hayman Mayor Hayman had nothing at this time. Councilman Hatfield Councilman Hatfield asked to have Item 7C moved up on the agenda. There were no problems with Council to move Item 7C up on the agenda. C. Appoint member to General Employees Pension Board due to expiration of term of Reverend Harvey Hardin. who requests reappointment Councilman Hatfield made a motion to reappoint Reverend Hardin to the General Employees Pension Board, second by Councilman Hays. 'w' ,.." Councilman Hays thanked Reverend Hardin for the time he has given this community. Mayor Hayman stated he thinks they all feel that way. The motion CARRIED 5-0. PUBLIC HEARINGS. ORDINANCES AND RESOLUTIONS A. Resolution No. 95-R-21 Extinguishing drainage easements on lot 14230. block 460 and Lot 14174. block 457, Florida Shores No. 24 (Tabled Oct. 2, 1995) Councilman Hatfield made a motion to remove this from the table, second by Councilwoman Martin. Mayor Hayman presented the background and staff recommendation for Res. 95-R-21. Mayor Hayman read Res. 95-R-21. He informed Council there was a drawing of the lots in question depicting the easements under consideration in the packet. Councilman Mitchum feels this is more of a housekeeping matter that would interfere with our road or drainage program. Councilman Mitchum made a motion to approve Res. 95-R-21, second by Councilwoman Martin. Mayor Hayman expressed his concerns with this resolution and stated his original concerns have been met. The motion CARRIED 5-0. B. Resolution No. 95-R-22 Authorizing Mayor to sign utility relocation agreement with Florida Department of Transportation Mayor Hayman presented the background for Res. 95-R-22. Mayor Hayman read Res. 95-R-22. Councilman Hatfield made a motion to approve Res. 95-R-22, second by Councilwoman Martin. Councilman Hays agreed with Mayor Hayman that this a dangerous intersection. He would like to see a light placed at this intersection. Mayor Hayman offered to get in touch with the Metropolitan Planning organization to see what the City has to do to get a light at this intersection. The motion CARRIED 5-0. CONSENT AGENDA A. Yearly rental of storage unit for Parks and Recreation B. Edgewater Alliance Church gymnatorium usage agreement C. Purchase of Angus fire house from Ten-8 Fire Equipment for $3.054 and determine provider is sole source supplier D. Amendment to AT&T equipment agreement for Department of Fire and Rescue Services Councilman Mitchum moved for approval of the consent agenda, second by Councilman Hays. The motion CARRIED 5-0. Page -2- Council Regular Meeting October 16, 1995 .., ..""" OTHER BUSINESS A. status report of road improvement project city Engineer Fegley presented the status report of the road improvement project. He commented on the schedules which are a sequence for construction within Part A. City Engineer Fegley commented on time delays and the problems due to weather conditions. City Engineer Fegley spoke about having a number of unexpected encounters with utilities. He spoke about the utility companies working diligently with us. city Engineer Fegley commented on the earth work contractor wanting some additional contract time. with all feasibility, it is excusable in accordance with the contract documents. They do have a reason for that delay. City Engineer Fegley spoke about the soil cement being put in place on Hibiscus Drive south of 30th street and from 442 to the 2400 block of Hibiscus. City Engineer Fegley explained the only monetary item that we will probably realize in the near future above and beyond the original scope of work is the approximately 10 ponds we had to reconfigure that were originally constructed in accordance with the bid contract documents. city Engineer Fegley stated we are going to be erecting stop signs for the north-south traffic on 26th street to allow construction logistics to move along on that street. It's a safety precaution to stop traffic. " ~. ~. ~ Councilman Hays asked the press to help inform the public of the stop signs. City Engineer Fegley explained the stops signs are a temporary measure for construction. B. Approval of Final Plat for Edgewater Landing Phase 3, Applicant - The Radnor corporation Mayor Hayman informed Council of the addendum to this from City Attorney storey. Community Development Director Mark Karet gave a brief presentation regarding this matter. City Attorney storey commented on the specifics of the maintenance and improvement agreement regarding what has been developed with Radnor Corporation. Mayor Hayman commented on this being a process to help expedite the process of streamlining so the developer and potential home owners wouldn't have to wait for an excessive review process. Councilman Hays moved for approval, second by Councilwoman Martin. The motion CARRIED 5-0. C. APpoint member to General Employees Pension Board due to expiration of term of Reverend Harvey Hardin. who requests reappointment This item was handled earlier on the agenda. Page -3- Council Regular Meeting October 16, 1995 '-' .",., D. Appoint member to Economic Development Board due to resignation of Scott Porta. with recommendation of Board to appoint William H. Fair. III Councilman Mitchum made a motion to appoint William Fair, III, second by Councilman Hays. The motion CARRIED 5-0. GENERAL CITIZEN COMMENTS/CORRESPONDENCE Mayor Hayman commented on a letter from Mary Havlin, President, Shuffleboard Club thanking City Manager McMahon and Mr. Corder for replacing the roof at the head of the shuffleboard courts. Mike Visconti, 316 pine Breeze Drive, commented on the drainage problem from Roberts Road to down in front of the school. He would like to see this taken care of. Mayor Hayman informed Mr. Visconti that Mr. Fegley and Mr. Williams are working on that. City Manager McMahon further commented on the drainage problem. Jerry Lee Sr., 1731 Airpark Road, commented on the maintenance in Florida Shores on the drainage areas. He spoke about a meeting with City Manager McMahon and someone from the maintenance department to decide the cost and if we could set up some kind of schedule so there would be some accountability towards maintaining these areas. City Manager McMahon stated he will be working with the department head to put together that information. Mr. Lee stated he is very surprised that this far into the program we don't have that information. City Manager McMahon stated we do have that information. We have planned on it from the planning standpoint to refine those estimates. Mr. Lee asked to get with Mr. McMahon like they agreed to before. City Manager McMahon informed him when he is done. Mr. Lee asked to be informed when that happens. city Manager McMahon asked Mr. Lee to leave his number with his secretary. Mr. Lee commented on the workshop that was held. He wondered if Council had any response to the workshop. Mayor Hayman spoke on phone calls he has made to the st. Johns River Water Management District to ask Mr. Cook if he has any answer regarding the Council's request for any additional relief that we may ask for based upon our deliberations from the night of the workshop. Mr. Fegley followed that up with an official request from his office. Mr. Cook has been working on flooding problems in the other eighteen counties that the st. Johns River Water Management District has. Mayor Hayman was able to speak to the assistants working with Mr. Cook. They can not commit until he gets back in the network and he responds to Mr. Fegley's request. He is convinced st. Johns' wants to cooperate with our staff, Engineer and citizens of the community, to help us reach what is right and proper. Charles Gebelein, 1730 Umbrella Tree Drive, commented on Item 5A regarding the maximum depth of the ponds being 2 feet and six to one slopes. Mayor Hayman stated the changes that Mr. Fegley presented to them on Wednesday, showed a six to one and two feet which is what is being looked at now. Mr. Gebelein questioned if that is what is going to be done. Mayor Hayman stated that is what he is looking at. Page -4- Council Regular Meeting October 16, 1995 'W" ,..", Mr. Gebelein questioned new ponds being dug to those dimensions. Mr. Fegley stated each pond will be anywhere from one to two and one-half feet. Two on the average. Some of the ponds where we have a dimension constraint, obviously we can't have a six or eight to one slop due to a driveway in the right-of-way line but we are trying to keep a minimum three to one slope. Mr. Gebelein spoke about not having the ponds where they would be directly behind the driveways. Is that in action also. Mr. Fegley stated what we are trying to do there is reduce the width of the ponds to resemble a swale. Once we get beyond the driveway twenty or twenty-five feet then we can open it up to the inlet structure or the downstream pond but yes we are shrinking that overall dimension to make it look like a common swale. Jerry Lee, 3047 Juniper Drive, stated the plan has been designed and approved for four to six years. He questioned if that is correct. Up until this year, why were homes on side streets allowed to face those streets and why were driveway accesses allowed to be placed on those streets. Mr. Karet commented on setback issues and whether a house is a corner lot or not. l [ J :! City Manager McMahon asked how many accesses were done without appropriate permits. Mr. Karet stated he couldn't give the number but obviously there are quite a few illegal driveways that were created without permits. Since the plans came into effect, probably about one hundred. Mr. Lee stated he was talking about new homes that were approved through Public Works and through the other departments in the city. Those homes could have been eliminated from the effects where some of us had no choice. Mr. Lee asked if Council believes this plan is safe for children or anyone else. Mayor Hayman stated if they didn't believe in the safety of this program, we wouldn't have it right now. Mr. Lee asked if they believe they are ruining property value. Mayor Hayman stated no he does not. Mr. Lee asked if they know this design will work and if there is proof. Mayor Hayman stated he is not a professional engineer. We have spent big money for two design professionals and we have one in-house that has assured us the water will move from the higher level to the lower level. Mr. Lee feels the city has no one to fall back on if this doesn't work. He understands the design firm that did design this is no longer involved. If this plan does not work, there is no one to fall back on except the taxpayers. City Manager McMahon stated the City has had detention ponds in the area of the Library for many years. They are far more severe than any pond that will be put into this project. Mr. Lee spoke about a child in Brevard County that drowned in a retention pond. Mr. Lee read a prepared statement. Bob Meeker, 2413 Victory Palm Drive, commented on minutes from the November I, 1993 meeting where Mayor Hayman stated he will not support creating a bunch of ponds on every east-west street for children to drown in. Mr. Meeker asked if he has changed his mind since them. Page -5- Council Regular Meeting October 16, 1995 '-" "'-' Mayor Hayman stated we deep a pond is. Mayor transmitting water and ponds. don't have a pond. Mr. Meeker asked how Hayman stated what we are doing is swales. They are transmissions, not There was a discussion regarding the detention ponds being designed as retention percolation ponds. They are not designed to be bathtubs. Councilman Hays spoke about when they were looking at different concepts of managing stormwater runoff. He went on to explain detention ponds. He believes this design will work. When this is done and we are having our normal weather, you may see children playing in these retention areas but there won't be any water in them. These won't, a majority of the time, have water in them. Councilman Hays further commented on the safety of children. We are trying to manage the stormwater runoff in the most financially feasible and effective way we can. Mr. Meeker stated the city states the east-west roads are public rights-of-way. In the Florida plat for Florida Shores it states they are public roads only. He questioned what the north-south streets are considered. Are they public rights-of-way or are they public roads only. City Manager McMahon stated we are not closing off the roads, we are using it for public purposes as defined by law. It says its a public right-of-way for that purpose. Mr. Meeker stated in other words, you could take a north-south road and use it too. City Manager McMahon explained there is no reason they would use the north-south roads any differently then they are being used right now. City Manager McMahon explained the ponds are a result of the 1973 Water Management Act. Mr. Meeker stated if there were as many houses on the east-west streets as there are on the north-south streets, what would we do then. Mayor Hayman stated we don't have that, thank goodness. Henry Dardinski, 2704 Sabal Palm Drive, stated no other City has this particular setup at the present time. He questioned how they are supposed to know if this plan is going to work. He suggested drawing up a trial system for one road east and west and see if it's feasible. Doris Hill, 112 Lincoln Road, stated it was brought to her attention that there are people in this City who do not live in Edgewater Landing who think that they are paying for the debt service on Edgewater Landing's Clubhouse. Ms. Hill stated she went home and looked on her tax bill. She commented on an item that states RecjEndg Land. People thought that referred to Edgewater Landing. City Manager McMahon stated you can not take a penny of public money and expend it on private purposes. Councilman Hays stated on the County tax bill it has to do with the County recreational tax and dollars that are spent. Page -6- Council Regular Meeting October 16, 1995 '-" ...", Ray Vath, 2703 Kumquat Drive, spoke about the $6 stormwater fee. He questioned why the empty lots in Florida Shores don't have to pay the $6. He stated he was told there is really no way for us to collect the money. We can't put it on the tax bill. He asked the Council if they could put a special assessment on their tax bill for the sewers and a special assessment for the swimming ponds that are going to be put in, why can't they put a special assessment on for the $6 per empty lot per month water fee. He suggested multiplying it by twelve and collecting it once a year. Mayor Hayman stated they have looked into the legalese of doing that. Initially we did some preliminaries and if we asked a resident of an undeveloped lot on a monthly basis, the mail out, postage and administrative handling was prohibitive because of the amount of money being collected. Mayor Hayman stated the options just mentioned by Mr. Vath are probably a very good thing to look into. city Attorney Storey has been asked to look at this and report back to us and she can probably give you a feel for some of the concerns that have been expressed from the legal point of view. City Attorney Storey explained it is not possible to place this on the tax roll due to this being a utility fee. It would not be deemed legally a special assessment so that is not a mechanism that is available to the City. There are other collection methods that we can use. Councilman Hays stated this was looked at for quite a while and one of the things we found on charging this fee is that you can do it on a developed piece of property. He further commented on developed lots and the formula that was used informing them what they could charge. It was not feasible. Today we might find that we may spend thirty two cents to collect fifty. city Manager McMahon stated annually the city is obligated on behalf of all of its residents to look at fees and that is one of the fees that was looked at this past year and it wasn't really cost justified. Mr. Vath feels the empty lot is getting full service and paying nothing. He doesn't see why they can't multiply the $6 times twelve and add it on the ad valorem tax bill as a special assessment as the sewer and roadway is. City Attorney Storey again explained this is not a special assessment, it is a utility fee. Dominick capria, 606 Topside Circle, thanked Doris Hill for straightening a couple of people out. He feels she should have gone further and explained they have paid for their streets and that they are being double taxed. Mike Visconti, 316 pine Breeze Drive, stated the people who own the empty lots being talked about are paying tax on those lots. OFFICER REPORTS City Attorney City Attorney Storey had nothing at this time. city Manager City Manager McMahon encouraged the specific people who are really interested and concerned about the configuration of the detention areas, to contact the City Engineer. Page -7- Council Regular Meeting October 16, 1995 '-' .""" City Clerk City Clerk Wadsworth had nothing at this time. OFFICER REPORTS Councilman Mitchum spoke on the question of will it work. He feels it will work. Councilman Hays asked Mayor and Council to inform City Attorney if there is anything they would like included in the ordinance regarding solicitation. Councilman Hays thanked the News Journal for their article and bringing this before the public. Councilman Hays wished City Clerk Wadsworth a Happy Birthday. ADJOURNMENT There being no further business to discuss, Councilman Mitchum made a motion to adjourn, second by Councilman Hays. The meeting adjourned at 8:15 p.m. Minutes submitted by: Lisa Kruckmeyer Page -8- Council Regular Meeting October 16, 1995