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10-10-1991 - Special . , '-' ..." ~ CITY COUNCIL OF EDGEWATER SPECIAL MEETING OCTOBER 10, 1991 MINUTES Mayor Wessler called the meeting to order at 4:00 p.m. in the Community Center for discussion and action regarding access to Meadow Lake roads. ROLL CALL Mayor Tanya Wessler Councilman Kirk Jones Councilperson Louise Martin Councilperson NoraJane Gillespie Councilman Michael Hays City Attorney Krista Storey Acting City Manager Fred Munoz City Clerk Susan Wadsworth Police Chief Lawrence Schumaker Present Excused Present Present Present Present Present Present Present Mayor Wessler stated Tuesday evening she received a telephone call from a Meadow Lake resident who was upset because after about 2 years the gate was opened at the back of Meadow Lake and she wasn't aware of it before it was done. She said she tried to contact the Acting City Manager, who wasn't available, and she ordered that the gate be locked back up. She stated she doesn't feel it's any Council member's responsibility to dive into the administrative functions of this City and it needs to stop now. She said if the gate comes down now, it has to be by Council decision based on facts with legal representation. She noted it's one thing for her or Council to see a pot hole that needs filled and another thing to take an elaborate decision and think you have the power to do it yourself and she resents that and the fact that she was in the middle of a private evening with her family and had to deal with this. She asked for legal input and for Mr. Munoz to fill them in on how the fence got there in the first place and they can make a rational decision from that. Mr. Munoz explained about 2 years ago the previous City Manager was approached to put the gate up in that area and he checked with the development agreement and other documents and came up with what staff felt was possibly a weak position to allow the gate going up and that gate was allowed until this week when he received instructions to bring it down. He added he reviewed the facts at the department head meeting and they were also of the opinion it was a public road maintained by tax dollars and there's no good reason to keep it locked. He said all along these two years staff has felt it should be open to the public but no one had complained about it until Council person Gillespie called. He stated when Carl Overstreet's crew improved the culverts there they opened it and the next day found it was closed and Councilperson Gillespie did not have a problem with that being closed again as it was going to be brought up on an agenda and the gate remains closed at this time. Ms. Storey stated she confirmed the facts Mr. Munoz mentioned and discussed with Mr. Karet and others in that department and talked with Mr. Wheeler from Meadow Lake and looked through the City Manager's files in reference to this matter and received minutes of the Planning and Zoning Board meeting November 20, 1986, in which they recommended action on the subdivision plat. She explained the minutes of that meeting reflect that the 28th Street entrance would be used as access for emergency vehicles and Roberts Road would be the primary access. She added Mrs. Plaskett was the staff representative involved and said there was an agreement that there would be a sign put up for no through traffic but there's no reference to a gate at that time. She said from talking with individuals involved the development initially was presented with just one access and because of concerns from the Fire Ch i ef at the time concern i ng safety, there was a subsequent second access added to the subdivision plan and that's where the reference begins. She added from talking with Mr. Wheeler and Mrs. Plaskett she believes the initial understanding was it would be a right of way publicly dedicated but a portion of the road, Pine Breeze, would not be paved completely to 28th and it would be basically left in its natural state and would be an unopened right-of-way. She said she understands there was an error or over- extension of the contractor and it became paved and looked like an open road. She noted a sign was placed there but traffic continued through and based on the comments from residents, that's how the gate came to be placed there. She stated ""w' ..." her legal position that she explained to Mr. Wheeler is she is very uncomfortable with an obstruction across a public thoroughfare for several reasons, first, it's a pub 1 i c road and pub 1 i c funds are be i ng expended to ma i nta i n that, and an obstruction against a public thoroughfare is an inappropriate action by a public body. She noted it would be different if it were a private road. She added the other concern legally is liability reasons and she understands the Police and Fire Departments have keys to that road but if that's the quickest way for those departments to address an emergency situation and for whatever reason they have to stop and unlock the gate and that time frame results in death, the City's position is not good if they have a gate or obstruction against a public thoroughfare. She pointed out her initial recommendation to Council is that the gate should come down. She suggested some options to consider are if Council is able to determine there are overriding public health, safety, and welfare reasons for the gate to remain up, that's appropriate, but they need to make those kinds of decisions based on circumstances before them, and the other option is for that portion of the right-of-way to be vacated so it becomes private property and there's no longer the issue and the street ends at that point. She explained normally with vacating the property reverts to abutting property owners. She sa i d she doesn't know the effect of vacat i ng on those lots but assumes there are requirements to have frontage on a roadway before they can build on a lot and Mr. Karet can address that and she doesn't know all the development ordinances at this time. She pointed out vacation of that right- of-way would not solve the entire problem unless the pavement is taken up because it would still look like a road. Mayor Wessler asked if it's vacated, the gate would be there and they wouldn't be able to use it. Ms. Storey explained they'd still have the gate at the end of a public road and there are safety considerations with someone slamming into the gate and she's uncomfortable with an obstruction like that. She said perhaps that's not really an issue from a traffic engineering standpoint and they can do something to notify people they're coming to the end of the road, such as a dead end sign. Councilman Hays stated he was surprised it was not a private road and it wasn't clear why it was put up except a contractor put it up. He asked if people in the subdivision paid for the road, or if the City paid. Mr. Munoz replied usually the developer does it and dedicates it to the City. Councilman Hays asked who is responsible for maintenance if the road's dedicated to the City. Mr. Munoz replied the City is. Councilman Hays asked if they'd vacate it back to the Homeowners Association. Ms. Storey replied it's whoever owns adjoining property. Councilman Hays asked who would take the road back up as initially that was opened because there were fire and safety access concerns with only one in and out road. Mayor Wessler suggested they hear from Gigi Bennington. Ghli Benninqton, 121 Virginia Street, stated she was on Council when this happened and met with the Homeowners Association and Mr. Johnson when they had a complaint about speeding and traffic through the subdivision and they'd asked what could be done. She said she doesn't think the road was paved all the way to the end at that time because there were not a lot of homes yet and they wanted to know what they could do to stop through traffic. She added R. A. Coleman didn't want to go before LDRA to have his plat revised and the Homeowners were willing to do whatever necessary to stop through traffic and the City through Mr. Johnson and Mr. Coleman and the Homeowners entered into an agreement and they bought the gate and put it up with Mr. Coleman's permission. She said that road was never to be developed the same way at the other end, there was a road being cut through by peop 1 e wi th de 1 i very trucks, etc., and th i s gate seemed to alleviate a lot of the speeding problems. Mayor Wessler asked if it was a written agreement with Mr. Coleman. Mrs. Bennington replied not that she knows of and she was in on the initial negotiations and then Mr. Johnson, Mr. Coleman, and Mr. Wheeler worked on it. Councilman Hays asked if there was any legal advice at that time about putting a gate up from a public safety point of view with concerns for access and when it became the City's responsibility. Mrs. Bennington replied not to her knowledge but she doesn't think Mr. Coleman owned all the way to 28th so even if the gate wasn't put up, someone could develop on the other side of the gate, but she doesn't know if it meets all criteria. She added they did this rather than go through LDRA to take the emergency access off the plat. Councilman Hays asked for input from a safety standpoint from Police Chief Schumaker and Fire Chief Vola. 2 Council Special Meeting Minutes October 10, 1991 ", ."" Fire & Rescue Chief Bill Vola stated his opinion will not be popular but he and Mr. Johnson did not agree on closing that access. He stated right on the other side on the public side of that gate is a hydrant and that's intended to serve the back part of that subdivision. He pointed out they have a key for that gate, but there's no guarantee that the first responding unit on the scene will have that key, and they do carry bolt cutters, but are concerned about the worst case scenarios that Ms. Storey referred to and if a delay is involved those extra seconds to open that could make a difference. He added two means of ingress or egress from any development or site are desirable rather than one way traffic and cul-de-sacs are a problem for ambulances and fire trucks, and eliminates traffic from two different fire stations when they have only one way in and out. He said from a tactical point of view he would prefer to see the gate removed because it's an obstruction and it's been a problem on several instances for EVAC ambulance when they came from the West side of town and could not get in. Mayor Wessler asked what held do if that road were vacated. Chief Vola replied held ask Council to require the Homeowners Association to install a hydrant to replace the one that would no longer be accessible, and secondly, if Council makes that decision, he wouldn't be happy with it and the former volunteers in 1986 didn't approve of it and they realized it's a problem. Chief Schumaker stated the policing of a City is somewhat different than fire protection and they haven't had problems with the gate to this point of time but you don't' know where a cruiser will be when a call comes in, it can be on either side of the gate, but from a law enforcement position, the least amount of access into a deve 1 opment pro v i des a sense of secur i ty and peop 1 e don I t go into a deve lopment that has on ly one way out. He added since the gate I s been up, there's been no problem or repercussion at the Police level but he would feel similar to Chief Vola if he were in his position. He explained they can maneuver a cruiser quicker and easier than a large fire truck. He noted if the gate comes down, the residents will complain about speeders as they did before the gate went up, and he doesn't know of any law that can tell people to do things when they decide not to do them and you can put up all the signs you want to, and that includes speeding, and if the average person decides not to adhere to that sign, the only solution is punitive action by a Police Department that causes upheaval. Art Wheeler, 211 Meadow Lake Drive, stated he was the first one in there and held lived in Shangri-La previously and was flooded out and he moved to what he thought was a higher elevation and checked with Corps of Engineers. He explained held talked with R. A. Coleman about the rear entrance into City water and while it was being built and the man was paving, he paved the street and said held put a sign up for no through traffic except for emergency vehicles and he thought that was good because it was one way in and out. He said this was a good safety factor for the people who use the streets for exercising and for handicapped an those with health problems. He pointed out those people had their life savings tied up in the houses and it's a shame they cannot protect the community. He asked Council to come up with a good reasonable idea. Bob Bonnev, 200 Clover Ridge, Meadow Lake, said they have several old people that use Meadow Lake a lot and walk around at night and before the gate was up they couldn't walk without the worry of someone coming up from behind you. He stated the City Attorney mentioned what will happen if someone rams into that fence, but what if someone gets in there and someone is killed as some are not so light on their feet anymore. He added held rather have them slam the fence. Mike Malone, corner of Meadow Lake Drive and Pine Breeze, stated Meadow Lake is about 1/4 mile long and is a drag strip and they were going out the back entrance. He said he had vandalism and beer cans in his yard but hasn't had problems since he called the Police, but other people had problems with cars being driven on their yards and noise with loud radios. He stated they don't have enough lighting there and has seen cars parked on the street with drivers drinking beer and they don't belong there and he called the Police and they came when it was too late. He noted when they had a fire on 28th Street there was no problem getting there because they knew the way to get in an out. He said people are cutting across vacant lots and they're tired of it and he's sorry if some people have to drive out of their way but held prefer going the other way and will go out Meadow Lake and across. 3 Council Special Meeting Minutes October 10, 1991 ....... ~ Sheryl Panico, 330 Pine Breeze Drive, stated Chief Schumaker made a good point wi th one way in and out and she has two sma 11 ch il dren and her husband is sometimes out of town at night and generally people will not come in to rob or destroy when there's one way in and out. She said she was one of the first residents and there were no traffic problems and no gate and when the park was developed there was a lot of traffic with people going to the baseball field. She noted she was walking her children one night and had a problem with a speeder and rudeness. She stated they paid for the gate with their own money to protect themselves and the elderly and children and now all of a sudden after two years with no accidents or incidents it's a big issue. She asked who brought this up. Councilperson Gillespie replied they started getting complaints at the Easter Egg Hunt and there were numerous complaints from the PTA and some of the parents of Little League and she asked if we could unlock it. Ms. Panico stated she probably won't be able to get out of her driveway to drive her son to school now. Al Beckman, 217 Meadow Lake Drive, agreed with previous comments and said vehicles have driven across his front yard twice and once the mailbox was found 2 houses down the street. He said other mailboxes were knocked down and that was deliberate, not accidental, and the vehicle drove off the road and across his 1 awn. Alice Murphv, 230 N. Riverside Drive, sympathized because she lives on Riverside Drive which is alternate U.S. 1. She defended Councilperson Gillespie who was thinking in terms of safety and the children coming across that street were able to cross where there are safety guards. She asked who had the authority to change that because she doesn't think the person who said to close it is thinking of safety of the children. Mayor Wessler stated about a year ago the children had a problem crossing Whistle Stop Park to school and they asked Perry Barrett to clear his property to make it more accessible to the children, which he allowed, and they're now going across a park with no traffic, which is a lot safer than a road. Ms. Murphy stated she understands from Counc i 1 person Gi 11espie she got calls from the parents about concerns of safety of the children. She suggested a compromise that if they close that road perhaps they could put a small opening where people could walk through because they have the situation by McDonald's where you can walk but not drive through. Bob Kuvkendall, 193 Clover Ridge, stated they have elderly people living in the subdivision and the only exercise is getting out and walking for fresh air. He said a lot of subdivisions have only one access in and out but for some reason it seems to be IIlet1s beat up on Meadow Lake. II He said he moved here a year ago to a quiet subdivision that he thought would be a wonderful place to live but he has doubts about that now because he's never seen such people that want to take them to task. He noted people think those that live in Meadow Lake are upper middle class but they shop at K-Mart. He stated this provides security and peace of mind, upright mail boxes, decent lawns, and a place for people to walk or ride their bikes in safety, compared to a short cut for some people. He stated it1s no more bother to go to Roberts Road to U.S. 1 than going through the opening at the gate. He added it's of no consequence to the people on the other side of the railroad tracks in Florida Shores and Florida Shores people should go straight up U.S. 1 and hit the traffic light. He said the Police Department is very happy they don't have to answer disturbance calls day and night there, and they already have enough to do. He added if the Fire Depart- ment is worried about having the key to the gate, they should seal it up and the Homeowners will put a fire hydrant in and close it up to have privacy and they'll have the fire protection. He asked Council to think about the people who live there because they spend money to live there and be useful, productive citizens and live in safety and comfort and not to be run over and harassed by people because they know they can get out one way if they can't get out the other. Edith Williams, 1869 Sabal Palm, said she'd lived here 10 years, pays taxes, and doesn't cause problems. She stated she doesn't live in Meadow Lake and is getting upset because they get their own public street which is financed by public taxes and she lives on a street in Florida Shores Subdivision and has been vandalized and run off the street on her bicycle by speeders and she called the Police and they responded but were not in time because the cars are faster than the Police cars. She said if this gate is allowed to remain on a public street, then she'll rally her neighbors and pay for a gate and put it up to have more protection for her niche. 4 Council Special Meeting Minutes October 10, 1991 ~ ...., Don Masso, 317 Pine Breeze, stated he understands that was a limited access, no through traffic, road and not like Sabal that's a public access to Edgewater or any place in Edgewater. He said the main thing is the only reason the gate was put up is because people cannot read signs or obey traffic laws because the "no through traffic" sign was there from day one and they don't pay attention to it. He noted the gate was the only solution they could come up with to enforce the law and take a load off the Chief's back. Charles DeBorde, owner of property on Evergeen, stated the City takes care of this and it's good for the people who live in there but if they want it so private, they could move the gate from the North end to the Roberts Road like the people on 27th and 28th and they have to go up and over the road and back. Council person Martin stated after listening to this, the only thing she can think of is turning this section of the road back to the development and leave it to them for upkeep and have them sign an agreement that the City will not be responsible for any possible reverberation from any emergency that occurs there. Councilman Hays stated the fire hydrant issue was brought up and some said they didn't have a problem with that and that might alleviate some of Chief Vola's concerns with access. He said rather than leave the gate there that will always be a bone of contention, it might be best to remove that pavement and solve the problem because that will always be an issue as long as it's there. He added the gate leaves the City at a liability if it stays there and it's part of their responsibility. He said the public feels they have access to any public street and the residents want the same quality of life as when they bought there and it's a quiet neighborhood. He suggested if the Homeowners will agree to put in the hydrant and get rid of that piece of pavement that wasn't there in the first place and accept the risk, he would not have a problem with that. Ms. Storey stated the issue in vacating has a question of whether that portion of the road way since that development has been constructed if there are lots remaining unsold that would have that as their only road frontage. She said she didn't pursue this further until Council directs and vacation is an option but if they're going to cut off someone's road access, it renders them unbuildable. Mayor Wessler stated the gate is locked now and has been there for 2 years and she suggested they leave it locked until the next regular meeting and allow time for Mr. Karet and Ms. Story to research all of this and make a decision then. Councilperson Gillespie asked if the City's liable at this time under the tort law. Ms. Storey replied they have been implicated for the last several years. Councilperson Gillespie stated she was aware of that and wanted Council to be also. Ms. Storey said the gate would have gone up against her advice if she had been the attorney 2 years ago. Mayor Wess 1 er agreed wi th her. Ms. Storey pointed out she is not recommending today to take the gate down or unlock it. Councilman Hays asked if where the pavement comes out on 28th the lots on the East and West side may have that as the only access. Ms. Storey noted she doesn't know. Councilman Hays stated he understands that street was built as a mistake in the first place so they must have access elsewhere. Ms. Storey said she assumes that's true but she doesn't have the facts. Mayor Wessler suggested they leave it as is and bring it back on the next Council meeting agenda. Councilman Hays asked if they could look at the plat now or Mr. Karet could look at it. Mayor Wessler noted whoever owns the property would have to agree to it. Ms. Storey explained vacating requires a hearing before Council. Councilman Hays noted the home owners will have to see if that's what they want and he's sorry this came about and it was a poor decision in the first place but they'll try to get it straight. Mayor Wessler suggested Art Wheeler be the representative to talk with Ms. Storey. An unidentified gentleman stated they have a fire hydrant within 300 feet of the gate now on Meadow Lake Drive almost across from his residence and the hydrants are 300 feet apart anywhere in the country so there would be no problems getting hoses to any house in Meadow Lake the way the situation is now. Mayor Wessler explained all these problems will be addressed at the next regular Council meeting and there won't be a lot of discussion on it, they'll have legal and staff comments. No Council member objected. 5 Council Special Meeting Minutes October 10, 1991 '--" ...., Councilman Hays moved to adjourn. Councilperson Gillespie seconded the motion. Meeting was adjourned at 4:50 p.m. Minutes submitted by: Lura Sue Koser c'~" . ';L'!~~:'1 ~.i :,y~~,{~ MAYOR " rl EXCUSED ~MA<N - NE X ~ d ~ . 0Jl1L/ Jl;2 COUNCILPERS N - ZONE TWO- -~ ~~~~~~NE THREE ~. ~- ATTEST: ~ix~ CITY CLERK / A.... ~ved this "I' day of ~. , 199~. , "-"< ..:;, (' ) " ~~?j'-'-"o,\:~~j.21 f:); JJ ~ MAYO - ", ,~ 6 Council Special Meeting Minutes October 10, 1991