09-23-1991 - Special
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CITY COUNCIL OF EDGEWATER
SPECIAL MEETING
SEPTEMBER 23, 1991
MINUTES
Mayor Wessler called the meeting to order at 3:00 p.m. in the Community Center
for interview of candidates for City Manager and possible selection to begin
negotiations. She announced that due to cancellation by two candidates (Kevin
O'Donnell and Edward F. Music) the scheduled times for interview have been
changed to the following: 3:00 p.m. Ferdinand Munoz; 3:30 p.m. Danny O. Crew;
4:00 p.m. George McMahon; 4:30 p.m. Roman A. Yoder, Jr.; and 5:00 p.m. Robert
W. Pettis, but as of today Mr. Pettis also cancelled.
ROLL CALL
Mayor Tanya Wessler
Councilman Kirk Jones
Counci1person Louise Martin
Counci1person NoraJane Gillespie
Councilman Michael Hays
City Attorney Krista Storey
Acting City Manager Fred Munoz
City Clerk Susan Wadsworth
Police Chief Lawrence Schumaker
Present
Present
Present
Present
Present
Present
Present
Present
Present
Ferdinand Munoz was the first app1 icant to be interviewed. Councilman Hays
stated this is probably the easiest and most difficult as they've gotten to know
Mr. Munoz over the last months. He noted the decision made today will affect
the City for a long time and he hopes it's the right decision and no matter what
the decision he feels Mr. Munoz is the type person that will be able to work with
whoever they select. He said Mr. Munoz came in at a difficult time and has been
a lot of help to this green Council as Acting City Manager.
Councilman Hays asked why he wants the job. Mr. Munoz replied it's a normal
progression and there1s a challenge to this job and it's not the easiest one in
the world. He noted that Finance Directors usually go to bigger cities as
Finance Directors or go on as City Manager and City Managers usually rely on the
Finance Director for day to day operations. He said Finance Directors usually
do a lot of research for the City Manager and for awhile he was Acting City
Manager when the City Manager was gone but then that stopped. He said he's
familiar with the staff and there's a lot of growth that can happen for the City
and for himself personally and he looks forward to having the job offered to him
and doing a better job because basically as Acting City Manager you don't have
the full power of the job because you're acting.
Councilman Hays asked why he's the best person for the job. Mr. Munoz replied
he hasn't had the experience specifically as City Manager and he looked at the
other resumes and there are very good candidates but he won1t say he's most
qualified but with this situation in this City he feels the best qualified and
knows the City and personalities in the City and has been through the process
of the CIP, which is the biggest thing facing the City in the next 24 months.
He pointed out that because of that, he doesn I t have to spend 6 months of
learning what the City is about and has a better grasp of issues before them.
Councilman Hays asked what his weaknesses are. Mr. Munoz replied one is instead
of delegating, he does it himself and it ends up with his using his time in an
inefficient manner and he may have to put in extra time to make up for that.
He added by the nature of the job you have to do a lot of de 1 egat i ng and
assigning of work to be done and he is getting better at it but he catches
himself doing things personally that he should have assigned to someone else.
Councilman Hays asked the 3 or 4 most important goals or projects that need to
be acted upon and accomplished. Mr. Munoz replied top of the list is CIP with
water and sewer projects and getting them off the ground and starting
construction and that's the major project facing us not because of the largest
amount of money but it will have the greatest impact on the public and it will
affect their lives in a way that was never done before in Florida Shores. He
pointed out they need to keep the public informed of what and when it's going
on and all department and Police and Fire have to be kept aware when streets are
closed in case they have to get to a fire or police call. He reviewed other
items he feels are important: providing water and sewer to DSCC and potential
annexation of that property is an important goal for the City to continue to
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Interview of Fred Munoz (Continued)
grow and it will make the City an educational City and will open growth to the
West of DSCC; they discussed the City complex today and the City has to start
putting money aside to build it and he feels it should be centrally located to
make it accessible to the population; development of the PID is important long
term but he's not convinced the City should put big money in that but they should
have a facilitator to the development; Riverside Drive is the show place of the
City and it should continue to be maintained and improved and the bike path will
add tremendously; they need to look at infill development and not just annexation
and there's one to the North that's been dead for a number of years because the
developers went under; and they need to improve the housing because some along
U.S. 1 are shabby and need upgraded.
Councilman Hays stated there has been a lot of discussion about employee salary
range and salaries paid and some in the Griffith study were perceived below
range, plus they looked at the evaluation system and job descriptions and merit
performance, and asked how he'd proceed with it. Mr. Munoz replied they can
make the evaluation more sophisticated and will try to get a form that's more
objective and the bottom line is normally anytime you have a merit system there's
too much room for personal opinions and personal views and likes and dislikes
of individuals and he doesn't know how to eliminate that when a supervisor or
department head is the decider on what someone will get on merit. He added they
can have a well designed evaluation system understood by the employee and the
one doing the evaluation but it will never be perfect. He noted it's better than
before when it was 11011 or 11411 and now it's graduated. He said people are always
dissatisfied with salaries and feel it should be the same or higher or someone
else's should be lower. He said he talked with Ms. Storey about deprivation when
someone comes on board at a certain salary and then they see other people making
more and become unhappy and want to be paid more. He said they should look in
house but the salary survey doesn't have to be done by outside firms to have
credibility and it should be an indepth study and evaluation of what's happening
in the market in Volusia County.
Councilperson Gillespie stated Mr. Munoz has put up with her requests for almost
2 years and she asked how they can fix the communication breakdown within the
City departments and the public. Mr. Munoz replied one of his other goals is
to improve communications with internal between the department head and employee
and between Council and with the public which is most important. He said he
doesn't think they do a good enough job with the public about what City
government's all about but generally people are happy if the garbage is picked
up and water's on but it's the City's initiative to get the information out.
He added the City Manager has to see what the employees are doing on the job site
and not be isolated from them and has to spend time with each department and get
feed back and the employees have to be comfortable if they say something negative
it will be in a confidential manner. He added it hasn't been difficult dealing
with Mrs. Gillespie and he'd rather have 100 ideas from her and maybe use 25 than
no ideas submitted because he thinks the input's necessary and some good ideas
may go slowly but if there's a 3-2 vote, he'll do whatever's wanted.
Councilperson Martin stated what he feels the major responsibilities of the City
Manager are was covered and asked if he's personally strong enough to convey to
an employee that you're in charge. She also asked if he feels it's important
to work with the City employees and taxpayers alike. Mr. Munoz replied he thinks
he's strong enough, when he's in charge, he's in charge, but is usually willing
to hear other arguments and input on an issue but when it's all said and done,
he has to make the decision.
Mayor Wessler called a recess at 3:17 p.m. and called the meeting back to order
at 3:22 p.m.
Mr. Munoz stated there's a responsibility in addition to Council, department
heads, and employees, to the taxpayers who are the ultimate payers of the bills
and we're the custodians of the money but should give taxpayers a dollar's worth
of service for a dollar paid.
Councilperson Martin asked if he sees room for improvement in any area of the
City or City Hall, will he bring suggestions because Council has had to bring
forth ideas of change and a good City Manager should make himself aware of
2 Council Special Meeting Minutes
September 23, 1991
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Interview of Fred Munoz (Continued)
improvements that should be made and make those ideas known and take a keen
interest in the City. Mr. Munoz explained the Mayor and Council are exposed to
different things that should be changed and they should provide that information
and the City Manager should look at things to improve but collectively with their
six pairs of eyes, and incorporating the department heads in the process, when
someone sees something that needs changed it should be communicated to the
department head.
Councilman Jones stated it's been a pleasure working with Mr. Munoz as Acting
City Manager and some tough decisions were made. He asked what Mr. Munoz would
change that has happened since he's been Acting City Manager. Mr. Munoz replied
the budget, and he shouldn't have allowed the budget to be delayed while they
were waiting for the Griffith study, but they've recovered well and aren't the
worse for it. He added if it were provided earlier, it would have given Council
more time to go over it, but they did meet the deadlines.
Councilman Jones asked where his strong points are. Mr. Munoz repl ied the
coordinating and the facilitating and reacting quickly to even a hint that
something may be wrong. He stated there are a lot of good employees and they
have to have the trust if they give suggestions, the suggestions will be
evaluated in a firm manner and if valid, then we'll take action. He reviewed
the most recent example from Frank Conrey with energy conservation in City Hall.
He added he wants employees to be more willing to give their input because there
are a lot of ideas and they know where problems are.
Councilman Jones asked what he thinks he should work on himself to be a better
City Manager and what he thinks his weak points are. Mr. Munoz replied
delegating more because if he sees someone's busy and there's a deadline, he does
it himself and he has done quite a bit of delegating but has to do more.
Councilman Jones stated if he goes from Acting City Manager to City Manager there
may be some areas that may step on people's toes. Mr. Munoz stated he was going
to try to act like he was going to be here forever but as Acting you have to
watch whose toes you step on because you don't have the full range of power and
people may disagree with you and say they'll hold off until the real City Manager
comes on board.
Councilman Jones asked how he'll make Counci lmembers , jobs easier who want to
be informed on what departments are doing but not be involved in day to day
operations. Mr. Munoz replied he's tried to keep the Council informed by
"Things" and recently had concerns there may be an information overload and maybe
we need to concentrate on quality of information rather than volume. He added
there's been a tendency to inform Council of everything that's passed along and
perhaps they should prioritize it with "must read" and "may want to read" and
be more selective on what's given. He added staff wants Council to be aware
they're trying to do the best jobs for the City and if Council doesn't think
that, let us know and we'll try to change it.
Councilman Jones asked what his 5-year dream is and what his wish list is for
things to come. Mr. Munoz replied they need to see if OSCC is serious about
annexing into the City and see if growth to the West is viable and facilitate
the PIO zone and after the environmental study is done they should look at how
they want to get involved. He noted growth to the South is important and the
450 acres, if approved or not, will determine how the City will grow and the
normal growth path in the future is to the South with some to the West. He added
they need the i nf ill and to ut il i ze what's in the City now to increase the
population instead of all the annexing, and to have a 3-5 year plan for City Hall
to start saving money with the best way being the millage rate so citizens will
know the purpose. He said they need to determine a location for the new City
Hall, either here or centrally located to the population. He noted Riverside
Drive has to be improved, they have to protect the quality of life, and when the
sewer system is in the swimming should be allowed with the advanced wastewater
treatment with discharge to the River. He stated our population is at about
16,000 and he won't have to be concerned about going to a larger city if he gets
the position. He stated they need controlled growth and Council has to make the
decision of where growth makes sense.
3 Council Special Meeting Minutes
September 23, 1991
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Interv;ew of Fred Munoz (Continued)
Councilman Jones stated every year at budget time there are requests for more
manpower but how can we get more productivity from staff and how can we measure
it. He added he's not saying they1re not getting productivity now. Mr. Munoz
replied the Oavid Griffith study can act as a blueprint for future action and
even the items they don't agree with at this time may lead them to look at those
areas that are more critical and find some savings. He said they could go
department by department and justify manpower in place and determine how much
is spent doing various jobs, if those jobs are important for the City, and should
they continue to be done, or retreat, which is purposeful abandonment. He added
they have to identify duplication of efforts and look at how manpower's utilized.
Councilman Jones stated the City Manager has a very tough job and he has to deal
with 5 people with different ideas. He said he's talked with Frank Roberts and
his job is stressful just as the firefighters are.
Mayor Wessler stated she wouldn't want the job of Acting City Manager and Mr.
Munoz went through probably the roughest time any City Manager has. She said
he's always been honest with his answers and she hopes if he's selected that he
doesn1t grow fangs and turn into another person. Mr. Munoz stated he's not
vindictive and doesn't have anyone to be vindictive against and it's tough with
5 people to work for but the squeaky wheel gets the oil and the City Manager
has to have a view of what the right thing is to do and that gets modified by
whether the Council members think it's right. He added the City Manager has to
keep 5 people happy and lives for a 3-2 vote and when it goes against him he'll
be out of here and when the decision's made you should be ready to pack and go.
Mayor Wessler stated decisions over the last few months were on the low end of
the votes but he made the right decision. Mr. Munoz noted the toughest decisions
have been regarding CIP which started years ago and was the brain child of a
previous Council with this Council getting responsibility for implementation.
He added the stage they1re in now is the toughest and they're not home free,
there will be other problems, but the bulk of the work has been done and it's
an immensely growing experience to go through this process. He said Council has
to make the decisions and he feels theylll be the better for it as they're the
ones who moved the CIP from the concept to the action stage. He suggested they
recognize every previous Council for their efforts regarding the CIP since they
had input. Mayor Wessler stated he's done a good job and she goes to a lot of
functions and it's amazing the amount of support Mr. Munoz has out there.
Mayor Wessler recessed the meeting at 3:45 p.m. and called the meeting back to
order at 3:50 p.m.
Danny o. Crew was the second app 1 i cant to be i nterv i ewed. Counc il person
Gillespie thanked Mr. Crew for coming and for applying and noted he's had the
position of City Manager. Mr. Crew clarified it was Acting City Manager for a
year. Councilperson Gillespie asked the population. Mr. Crew replied 76,000
permanent and 110,000 in the winter. Councilperson Gillespie asked if they had
their own utilities. Mr. Crew replied yes. Councilperson Gillespie asked if
it was part of his duties. Mr. Crew replied part of his duties. Councilperson
Gillespie asked about coming down to a community of 15,000+. Mr. Crew replied
it1s difficult to get your first City Manager job and you have to go through the
chain of career development and it's tough unless you advance within your own
jurisdiction. Councilperson Gillespie asked if he's interested in becoming a
permanent City Manager. Mr. Crew replied yes. Councilperson Gillespie asked
if it's permanent to the community and does he plan long range relocation. Mr.
Crew replied when you accept a position it's 3-5 years minimum and beyond that
it's usually good for a community to bring in new people every 5-7 years, and
it's not healthy to keep the same person as communities can benefit by bringing
outs i de ideas in as a person tends to not grow after awh il e and gets in a
maintenance mode.
Councilperson Martin asked what he feels are the major responsibilities of a City
Manager to the City and the people. Mr. Crew replied to bring the best profess-
ional recommendation to the elected body who generally are not expert in these
various fields it takes to run a government and carry out their desires in the
best professional manner. Councilperson Martin asked if it's important to be
in contact with the public. Mr. Crew replied yes, especially as City Manager
because it's one of the most powerful positions and it's not elected. He added
the City Manager has to be close to what's going on in the community and be a
part of it to understand it. 4 Council Special Meeting Minutes
September 23, 1991
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Interview of Danny O. Crew (Continued)
Councilperson Martin asked if he could create a good working relationship between
himself and all employees and bring them together as a working body. Mr. Crew
replied he thinks so and sometimes it takes awhile for people to get to know
him but he's very open and frank and when people get used to him he usually has
a very loyal staff and is able to get them to do just about anything.
Councilperson Martin asked if he feels he should work inside City Hall or out
in the community. Mr. Crew replied he likes to walk around and probably has to
spend more time in the office now as an assistant but his boss drives around the
community. He noted there has to be a balance.
Councilman Jones stated the City is becoming larger and went from 6,000 to almost
16,000 in a short period of time. He asked Mr. Crew how held fit into Edgewater
with his skills and his strong and weak points and how held make Council members'
jobs easier. He added he wants a City Manager that takes control and theylre
not experts and got elected because the people had confidence in them. Mr. Crew
stated he has 17 years experience in municipal government and they can be assured
the advice would be based upon good solid experience and factors and not based
on personal beliefs. He added he'll bring recommendations and not just options
and will try to bring a trust between the Manager and staff and Council because
if you have that trust, things will go smoothly and when a City Council loses
trust with the staff, you run into problems and it's not just the City Manager
himself. He stated his advice would be unbiased and what he felt was the best
professional recommendation. He said the elected officials have a different
agenda to play to and they have to make political decisions that won't always
be the professional staff recommendation.
Councilman Jones asked how held prepare a budget to get it ready for presentation
to staff. Mr. Crew replied he generally likes to have the departments prepare
their budgets based on mandating the same level of service of the current year
and prepare separate decision packages that involve increases in service of any
new service they want to implement and also to prepare what would happen if they
had a 5% decrease in funds as a separate package, and then held bring a balanced
budget with recommendations on what to cut or to see if there are available funds
if there's a pressing need. He added if a budget has to be cut he usually leaves
it to the Department Heads because they're in the best position to know where
to cut. He referred to serious cuts and layoffs during the last 3 years. He
explained he likes to take one department a year and look at the entire operation
to re-justify each of the programs to see if he's still doing what we think they
should be doing or doing things no longer needed or should be moved to another
place and he rotates it each year.
Councilman Jones asked how held measure productivity and how to get more to
determine if they need to hire additional staff. Mr. Crew replied he did that
in Pompano and it took about 3 years to develop the system of key activity
measurements in each department with number of purchase orders, number of bids
written, storage requests, etc., and then get the history to see what happened
in the various departments and do cross jurisdictional surveys to see what is
standard and normal compared to others.
Councilman Hays thanked Mr. Crew for coming and said he hopes he had a nice
trip. He stated a lot of people are looking at productivity and ways to cut
back. He asked if Mr. Crew has had a lot of experience in activity measuring
and what results he got. Mr. Crew replied they did it in Pompano with mixed
results because they felt they could show where an increase was needed in a
certain department or activities and statistics were there but at the time there
was no confidence in the administration and no matter what was brought to the
commission they couldnlt get it through. Councilman Hays asked if there were
any innovative ways to adjust the FTE and work load units to address the service
for winter residents. Mr. Crew replied they cannot layoff Police part of a
year but they did have a Police reserve program with certified citizens that went
through the academy who didn't want to be full time who were used during the
winter when the extra help was needed. He added some areas could be easier to
cut off such as solid waste collection but a government can do it and in St.
Lucie County they're considering using a manpower agency to supplement certain
activities during certain times of the year when demand is heavier so they don't
have to put on full time employees, and they always did it with Parks &
Recreation.
5 Council Special Meeting Minutes
September 23, 1991
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Interview of Danny O. Crew (Continued)
Councilman Hays asked if Mr. Crew has experience working with job descriptions
and evaluations of employees. Mr. Crew replied yes, in St. Lucie County he does
all the evaluation reviews and signs off and he was Personnel Director in a
former position. Councilman Hays asked if he's familiar with criteria based job
descriptions and using that as a job evaluation. Mr. Crew replied yes, it takes
awhile to change a system to evaluate by criteria or management objectives but
that's the way everyone is going. Councilman Hays noted that Mr. Crew had said
the employees get along with him after awhile but how does he get along with the
public and how does he see his role with the public. Mr. Crew stated the City
Manager's role shouldn't be as a community leader, that's the Council's role,
the Manager should be supportive and accessible to the Council and the citizens.
He noted he has constant public contact in his present position. He added he
has mixed feelings about joining in community functions because he had a bad
experience when he joined the Chamber that didn't have the full commission
support. He added he had come to the conclusion that he should be involved but
not be a member.
Councilman Hays asked what he knows about Edgewater and why does he want to come
here. Mr. Crew replied he doesn't know if he wants to come here and still
doesn't know but Edgewater has a reputation with City Managers and it's not the
most pleasant and that will have to be a strong consideration. He said he's
familiar with Edgewater because he used to come to the beach and was raised in
Orlando. He added he likes Central Florida and the few years in South Florida
were enough.
Councilman Hays asked what criteria he used when he looked at new services with
decreased staff and who is cut first and why. Mr. Crew replied the answer falls
back to the elected officials and a lot of times not enough attention is given
to developing City-wide goals and objectives and it has to be discussed in the
budget process. He referred to certa i n areas that cou 1 dn' t be cut due to
community support and said they have to take their que from the people. He said
Council has to determine where they ultimately want the resources to be placed.
Councilman Hays stated that earlier Mr. Crew had said he looked at this as a
first time permanent City Manager position and as part of his career goal and
everyone develops ideas and ways they'd like to do things if they were the boss.
He asked what innovative management techniques he'll bring that he thinks are
unique because he has that ability. Mr. Crew replied he doesn't have any magic
techniques but he has a different perspective than most people and one is that
he generally brings to a team a different way of looking at things that has been
helpful in the past and he brings a good ability to transfer things from one area
to another with his concepts. He reviewed an innovative project he undertook
with a lease purchase with real property when there was a need for a new City
Hall. He noted that lease purchase is a poor way of doing things because you
don't raise revenues. He said some people have grand ideas and don't want to
be risk takers but Council and the Manager have to be risk takers to get ideas.
Councilman Hays noted Mr. Crew and Ms. Storey are from St. Lucie and asked if
they worked together and in what working relationship. Mr. Crew replied he was
only a short distance from her but her area was code enforcement and most of his
was done directly with her boss, the County Attorney, such as developing a new
port and purchasing property, and he doesn't think they ever worked together.
Mayor Wessler asked how he feels Council should act with department heads. Mr.
Crew replied he's never had a problem with councils talking with department heads
directly and they have to be able to do it, but when they start directing
department heads he has a problem unless it's something minor like pot holes.
He said held prefer Council go through the Manager to be sure it's done and the
right information and sometimes Council thinks things are done by one department
and it's another department involved. He added in a small community they have
to have a good working relationship between everybody. He stated he expects his
department heads to let him know if they've been contacted by a Council member
or they'll be in trouble and he has to have this information to do his job. He
pointed out if a Council member requests something that will take an excessive
amount of staff time, he'll bring it to the whole Council for action because of
past problems and it's not fair to the Manager who's responsible for the staff
or to the rest of the Council.
6 Council Special Meeting Minutes
September 23, 1991
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Interview of Dannv O. Crew (Continued)
Mayor Wessler asked in what area of the City he feels he'll rely heavily on the
department heads. Mr. Crew replied all of them because he will not have the
expertise and won't try to run their departments. Mayor Wessler asked what
department he came from prior to being Assistant. Mr. Crew replied he was County
Planning Director, and has been a Personnel Director and Budget Director, so he's
had a lot of expertise and could run any of them anywhere no matter what the
size. He added he could be a Police Chief if he had to because he was a military
policeman. He stated he seldom overrode a department head in Pompano and before
they made a final decision they1d come to him for input and advice.
Mayor Wessler asked his relationship with the press. Mr. Crew replied he only
had one bad experience with a local weekly and wasn't alone, others had the same
problem, and never with the legitimate press and he came from a large area with
major problems.
Councilman Hays asked what salary range he expects. Mr. Crew replied they know
what he1s making now and he's not in a position where held have to take a cut
and is fine where he is. He said held like $65,000 plus lCMA deferred in lieu
of pension and perhaps a car allowance of about $200 a month. He added money
isnlt the overriding concern but is important and he wants some sort of contract
with the past record with City Managers with some type of severance provision.
Mayor Wessler recessed the meeting at 4:30 p.m. and called the meeting back to
order at 4:35 p.m.
George McMahon was the third applicant to be interviewed. Councilperson Martin
stated he has quite a background and asked what he feels major responsibilities
are for a City Manager. Mr. McMahon said held expect the main function to be
to represent and work closely with the City Council and he sees Council as a
policy setting and legislative body that sets goals for the community and
believes it1s the Manager's obligation and responsibility to carry out those
plans and carefully plan objectives using the best resources made available and
plan the use of them wisely and economically.
Councilperson Martin asked if he feels it's important to work not only with
employees but with the public. Mr. McMahon replied the public is their
constituents and are very involved in a community like Edgewater and it appears
to be a very closely knit community with a lot of new people coming in and it's
important that the Manager be responsible to Council and their constituents.
Councilperson Martin asked if he'd be able to gather and present facts on an
issue so Council can act on it. Mr. McMahon replied an important function is
to help with agenda planning and work carefully on issues that may come up, try
to anticipate these, and bring alternatives in a very resourceful way.
Councilperson Martin asked if helll be able to do what's necessary to create a
good working relationship between the employees and City Manager and Council.
Mr. McMahon replied it1s important that the Manager have leadership qualities
that will create an environment that will carefully motivate the people that work
for you and this is one of his greatest assets. Councilperson Martin stated she
wants someone to delegate but keep everyone together to work as one force. Mr.
McMahon stated he believes in team work and his approach to problem solving is
a team approach and his involvement with an employee makes the people use their
knowledge and wisdom and this team work has to be a complete effort that the
Manager has to bring together.
Councilperson Martin asked if he feels hels strong enough to convey to an
employee that hels in charge. Mr. McMahon replied yes, but the Manager should
not have to say that, and if he earns the respect for leadership, the employees
wi 11 know that.
Councilman Jones thanked him for coming and asked what he knows about Edgewater.
Mr. McMahon replied hels been familiar with Edgewater for a good number of years
and lived in Maitland for about 10 years and used to come to this area. He
noted his children used to fish and hels seen this community grow from the 1980's
and most communities on the water are going through the same type problems.
7 Council Special Meeting Minutes
September 23, 1991
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Interview of GeorQe McMahon (Continued)
Councilman Jones asked how he would feel he could best contribute to our problems
as we 11 as be i ng a prob 1 em so 1 ver. Mr. McMahon rep 1 i ed one of the major
undertakings is the crp and with his background, especially with Maitland, he
can contribute very substantially not only to working with those programs but
working to help resolve problems associated with that and working through bond
issues and financial structures and how best to distribute the equity of costs.
He added they had those difficulties in Maitland and the build out of the office
park occurred when he was there and he was primarily responsible for bringing
together the infrastructures. He stated the equity of that system was not borne
by the taxpayers but by developer agreements and impact fees and at that time
Florida didn't have a strong growth management plan, they enacted one in 1979.
He added they were one of the first in the State to have impact fees and that
project was very challenging. He said Maitland Center doubled the City tax base.
Councilman Jones asked what he expects from his department heads. Mr. McMahon
replied he expects them to be aware of the Council goals and objectives and their
mission and how they participate in those goals and execution of those missions
through the objectives worked out with the Manager and the City Manager has to
understand what those goals and plans are for the community. He added the
department heads have to make the best use of resources made available to them
and they should work closely and cooperatively with the Manager because team work
is the key to making a successful city. Councilman Jones asked how he will
communicate with his staff. Mr. McMahon replied helll communicate frequently
with staff to be sure feedback is accurate and timely and would ask them to set
performance object i ves he I d work wi th and object i ves are essent i a 1 in goa 1
setting and goal completion. He said objectives should be measurable and fair
and reflect the goals so it's important they understand how it fits into the
overall mission.
Councilman Jones asked how held set up a budget to present it to Council. Mr.
McMahon replied held work with Council first as they have to set broadly defined
goals of the budget and then the Manager works with the financial resources
especially in finance and with department heads to be sure the plans can be done
and are affordable. He added when Council gets the final budget it should be
in a form they can understand and held work with department heads and community
leaders, advisory boards, and citizen groups because it's important they have
input and then the plan needs to be clearly presented to Council and reconciled
as the accurate plan for the community.
Councilman Jones asked if he'll have an open door policy with staff. Mr. McMahon
replied yes, even before he came into public administration he knew he has to
be available and responsive to those that want to see him.
Councilman Hays welcomed Mr. McMahon and asked how much money he would expect
this job to pay and what benefit package. Mr. McMahon replied he thinks he could
work it out within a range they'd consider fair and they indicated it would be
comparable to this position in this area and held leave it up to Council and
could work with a figure that's reasonable to them. He added it's important they
have something fair to Council.
Councilman Hays stated Mr. McMahon has an impressive resume and asked about his
experience with growth and growth management because welre going into a crp and
are creating infrastructure that will serve us for many years. He asked what
problems we can anticipate and how can we manage them before they become
problems. Mr. McMahon replied one of the most sensitive problems is what the
community feels about growth in the community. He briefly reviewed adoption of
a comprehensive plan with community input. He noted there will be divisions as
things go on from a political standpoint because people perceive growth as good
or bad. He said Council has to get very involved with the community in areas
they feel are the greatest concern. He explained retirees usually look at growth
management as a problem and younger people look at it as an opportunity. He said
growth management plans have goals spelled out and carrying out those goals is
cr i t i ca 1. He po i nted out there I s no goa 1 that cannot be changed and they
consider how to finance that and how people coming into the area will benefit.
Councilman Hays asked how he gets results from his department heads. Mr. McMahon
replied he wants them to want to work because they enjoy it and unless they enjoy
it, they won't work for him or anyone else, and if they have to feel intimidated,
then he's not doing his job.
8 Council Special Meeting Minutes
September 23, 1991
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Interview of Georqe McMahon (Continued)
Councilman Hays asked how much experience he has with job descriptions and
evaluations and productivity measurement and what ideas does he have. Mr.
McMahon replied his experience goes back to private industry before he was
involved in public administration and he developed a genuine sincerity of working
with employees and if people know what you say is truthful and honest they'11
relate to you and respect you for what you are and he tries to do that. He
explained he set up an employee advisory board in Maitland and the union
decertified with a 80% petition and later with a 100% petition and it was done
working closely with employees, and they felt there was not a reason to have a
union and to give it a chance without one. He said he didn't try to break the
union, and from that point on he knew he had to be very respons ive to the
employees and they set up an advisory board and he worked closely with them.
Councilman Hays asked when a City Manager steps in or intercedes with a
department head. Mr. McMahon rep 1 i ed if a department head is tryi ng to do a good
job and is sincere about trying to work with his people and executes leadership
qualities you'd want in a department head and is trying to accomplish the goals
and objectives, the City Manager can work with him through agreeable performance
standards. He said held hope Council would do that with the City Manager because
one of the most important things is to sit down and set up performance of the
City Manager and held hope to perform that way. He said if a department head
refuses to do that, then there are a variety of options such as counselling or
motivation and letting the department head know you recognize he has problems
and you want to work with those problems and offer him help in terms of resources
and if that fails to become a workable option, then you have to take a more
direct approach. He added that would be after counselling and failing to get
the performance you want, the Manager has to say whether they can come to an
agreement on whether they can work together.
Councilman Hays asked if he establishes yearly goals with department heads and
reviews them on a regular basis. Mr. McMahon replied once he knows Counci1ls
goals and they're established for the year, he'11 talk with department heads in
the budget process and plan how to work out those goals and the missions of each
department. He said if the objective for a particular goal needs input from
other areas, he'11 work with that department head to be sure the objectives are
realistic and can be accomplished in the time frame they want them accomplished.
He stated he regularly meets with department heads at least on a bi-week1y basis
and sometimes on a weekly basis and they can share in many different ways and
can contribute to management ideas. He added a manager doesnlt have all the
ideas to run a city but has to take the best of good ideas and make them work.
Councilman Hays asked where the line is drawn between Council and department
heads. Mr. McMahon replied if Council truthfully supports the City Manager
form of government they can work through the City Manager and there should not
be a barrier and if a Council member wants to communicate or meet with a depart-
ment head he doesn't have a problem, but held ask in priority setting and working
out objectives that they place their trust in the City Manager as long as that's
justified and if not, then let him know and hel11 try to correct the problem.
Councilman Hays asked if he takes criticism personally. Mr. McMahon replied he
encourages criticism and held ask that it be constructive and he responds very
well to it. He added if it's constructive, then it's an honest opinion and he
believes held have an obligation to respond to it and would respond honestly and
hope there would be a way to resolve the problem.
Councilman Hays asked why Mr. McMahon feels hels the best to be in this job.
Mr. McMahon replied he doesn't know if he is and doesn't know the other
candidates, but based on his experience and background he offers that to them
for evaluation and he feels hels a very people oriented person and that asset
with open communication with them and the public and employees is an asset.
Counci1person Gillespie stated Council just decided to go forward with an annual
event and had mentioned it to him at the Maitland Art Festival. She asked if
the golf course was built at Palm Beach Gardens before he was there. Mr. McMahon
replied yes and it was an interesting city but it wasn't full service and he
wanted more out of his career. Counci1person Gillespie explained we have our
own water and sewer system and hels had a lot of experience in that and is
definitely people oriented and this City has a bad problem with communication
9 Council Special Meeting Minutes
September 23, 1991
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Interview of Georae McMahon (Continued)
between everybody. She said they've talked about a newsletter for years and
never got one out and the Griffith report recommended a staff newsletter at least
4 times a year. She asked how he handles communication. Mr. McMahon replied
communication has to be total, such as responding to a telephone call or a
news 1 etter if it IS pract i ca 1 and every commun i ty he I s been in has had a
newsletter but it's not practical at a county level. He added they should be
responsive to the news media and be sure things that are important are conveyed
to them in an honest, pract i ca 1 way. He sa i din Ma i t 1 and they had a mi xed
community and a number of projects and people needed to know what's going on.
Councilperson Gillespie stated held worked with the wastewater authority with
5 cities and we're working with a Water Cooperative with the County and asked
what his functions were with this group. Mr. McMahon replied at that time it
was in the planning stage and it involved 5 cities, including Maitland, and their
job was to bring together a structured authority where they could finance a 28
mile transmission line to connect all the cities, which was $14-$15 million at
that time and the Orlando plant was about $100 million. He added they had to
pick up their share of the reserve capacity cost and transmitting it back to the
taxpayers and users of the system. He said he spent many hours as a representa-
tive from Maitland and most cities had elected officials and he was asked twice
to assume chairmanship of the authority but he felt that was something elected
officials should do. He said he was made Finance Chairman and helped them work
through the bond issue with BANis and bond issues. He said the challenge was
work i ng through elected and profess i ona 1 peop 1 e for permitt i ng purposes and
collectively bringing together an authority. He added he enjoyed it and people
from different backgrounds who had to agree on a certain policy or point.
Mayor Wessler asked his strongest area in city government. Mr. McMahon replied
people and working through the leadership of people.
Mayor Wessler asked what he would say if the Mayor asked him if she could attend
one of his department head meetings. Mr. McMahon replied held welcome her to
be there because he thinks it's important. He reviewed how he went through a
process of selecting a Police Chief and there were internal problems within the
Police Department and he was sensitive to community needs but felt he needed to
keep the elected officials informed and he set up the assessment process and
interviews and invited the Mayor to sit in and ask questions and when it was
over, the Mayor said he liked the process and was concerned that it was fair.
Mayor Wessler asked about his past relationship with the press. Mr. McMahon
replied good and he tries to keep the press informed on major community issues
and keep the Council informed and he's open and honest.
Mayor Wessler asked what he would do if he feels a Council member is overstepping
her bounds. Mr. McMahon replied held ask to discuss it with the member and ask
him or her what alternatives they should discuss and what the best options are
to resolve that problem. He said he feels he can work closely with the Mayor
and Council and can resolve it as conflicts won't benefit anyone and he tries
to bring peace to a situation and works hard at it.
Mr. McMahon asked Council's major goals and how they see the role of City Manager
in relation to Council. Councilman Jones replied he's been a city employee in
another town the last 19 years and has seen City Managers come and go and expects
a Manager he can have confidence in and that he has an open door policy for
everyone, including all employees, and one that will go out and see the community
and know what the employees are doing. He added in the past City Managers were
never seen by employees and they felt alienated and they need that team concept.
He said there are areas of concern they have to look at with planned activities
and it's everyone pulling together to make this community more family oriented.
He stated we have a river we cannot swim in and he hopes he's a problem solver.
He said when he asks for information he wants the honest input that he'll try
to fulfill it if it's within the feasibility of this community to do it. Mr.
McMahon stated Managers get lazy, they're human, and then you don't do a good
job and if there weren't problems they wouldn't be talking to him now. He said
he hopes to be a problem solver for them and hopes those problems are clearly
identified and communicated and they have a completely honest relationship. He
pointed out if there's not confidence, they won't be able to work together and
if they do have confidence, they'll work well and he doesn't know of any problem
that cannot be solved without hard work and human effort and honestly. He said
10 Council Special Meeting Minutes
September 23, 1991
,..,..
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Interv;ew of Georae McMahon (Continued)
some of his children are still at home and one daughter came with him today and
his family knows they can talk over their problems with him. He added he makes
mistakes and will be the first to tell them when he makes mistakes.
Councilman Jones stated we went through the CIP and one of the biggest issues
now will be paving of streets and there's no money. He asked if he has any
innovative ways of finding money because we're bonded out. Mr. McMahon replied
he thinks he has good planning capacity for that and can help plan resources but
cannot make them available and can identify them and they have State Revolving
trust funds, bond issues, user fees, and taxes and he'll try to come up with
wise and planned resources and ask Council to determine the policy.
Mr. McMahon stated he doesn't like county government, hels been there almost
two years, because he cannot identify with a municipality as you can this way
and there's a serious problem at the county level, especially in a non-Charter
county, and they have accountability without authority to deal with those issues
and it's not just a matter of going to commissioners because it's identified by
Constitutional law. He said he has an interest in going back to City management
because he loves it and this is where he belongs.
Mayor Wessler called a recess at 5:18 p.m. and called the meeting back to order
at 5:25 p.m.
Roman Yoder was the last applicant to be interviewed. Councilman Jones asked
his idea of the City Manager form of government. Mr. Yoder replied a mixture
and more team concept between Council and Manager and it's not all pure policy
making or all administration, it's a blend that has to take place in order to
meet demands or service requirements and a manager who can interact on those
terms is usually most effective.
Councilman Jones asked how he'd set up a budget to present to Council. Mr.
Yoder replied he has researched and developed a performance budget that provides
measurements to evaluate how you're doing and it's not an easy process but gives
you some bench marks to see if you're delivering service where it should be and
in the proper application.
Councilman Jones asked his strong points. Mr. Yoder replied everything he's
done has been team oriented and strong points is team development and
organizational development by applying functions to process. Councilman Jones
asked if he has an open door policy with staff and citizens. Mr. Yoder replied
absolutely, you have to communicate with people and citizens need access to you.
Councilman Jones asked how held measure productivity of their jobs throughout
staff and department heads. Mr. Yoder replied it varies from department to
department and Pol ice and Fire are most difficult to provide productivity
measures but the Building Department would be easiest. He said it's difficult
to tell you what the measures will be and it has to be something the Council is
willing to develop and you cannot arbitrarily say this will be our objective or
performance measure.
Councilman Jones asked what would be his ideal city and how it would be run.
Mr. Yoder replied about the size of Edgewater with growth, to have an ideal
working relationship between Council and Manager, controlled staff development
in terms of direction given to educational policy as staff should be learning
and growing professionally as well as in numbers for providing service.
Councilman Jones asked what he knows about Edgewater. Mr. Yoder replied he was
here about 5 years ago and was second to Dennis Kelly when the City changed to
the Council-Manager government and he's followed them over the years and knew
some predecessors on Council. He added he's familiar with Dyer, Riddle because
that was their engineering firm in Palm Bay and he knows the City's doing about
a $25 million CIP with major water and sewer expansion due to similar problems
he had in Palm Bay.
Counci lman Jones asked why he wants to come to Edgewater. Mr. Yoder rep 1 ied he's
spent 10 years preparing administratively and educationally for City government
to perform in th i s arena and fee 1 s he has the capab il it i es and sk ill sand
knowledge to do it. Councilman Jones asked if he likes challenge. Mr. Yoder
replied yes.
11 Council Special Meeting Minutes
September 23, 1991
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Interview of Roman Yoder (Continued)
Councilman Jones pointed out we're growing rapidly and asked his background with
growth management. Mr. Yoder replied Brevard County was the guinea pig for
comprehensive plans and he was involved from start to finish and they got their
plan through DCA which was a long complex process and he's seen it from the same
perspective with drainage and roads and high water tables. Councilman Jones
noted we have stormwater problems. Mr. Yoder said they have miles of swales
and not canals and he thinks Edgewater has the open drainage system.
Councilman Jones asked his strongest point he could bring to Edgewater. Mr.
Yoder replied the exposure he's had over the years as Acting Personnel Director
and Acting Public Works Director and they did about $5 million worth of road
repairs a year and built a new City Hall and Police complex for $10 million and
were in the process of a stormwater utility and had organizational development.
Councilman Jones asked his weakest point. Mr. Yoder replied we all have our
idiosyncracies and he tends to take Council direction and implement it more
rigidly than the community feels he should but he feels his priority is to
Council and he tries to do what they ask him to do.
Councilman Hays welcomed Mr. Yoder and asked the salary range held expect. Mr.
Yoder replied he didn't remember the advertised salary but thinks it was
acceptable. Councilman Hays asked what he feels is the ideal working relation-
ship between City Manager and Council. Mr. Yoder replied the City Manager has
to be accessible to Council and in a position where he feels comfortable with
them, is not a "yes" man and has to be able to say no, he doesn't think that's
right, and has to be receptive to instructions and changes in direction from
Council and held like to have friendship that goes with trust over time.
Councilman Hays stated the City is looking at evaluating job descriptions for
employees and going to criteria based job descriptions for evaluations that are
not so subjective. He asked Mr. Yoder's experience with that and what held
recommend to start the program. Mr. Yoder replied they did two studies while
he was in Palm Bay and one was a major reclassification study, and you can use
basic simplified forms to delineate 9 or 10 functions of the job as criteria or
get more complex, but the more complex, the more training it requires for the
employees to use the form, so it depends on what level of capacity the employees
have and the Manager will have to make that evaluation after he's on board.
Councilman Hays asked if we should use that criteria alone or if there are other
factors that may weigh heavily. Mr. Yoder repl ied some things need to be
weighted more than others and you have to consider knowledge, skill and ability
but you have to be careful how they're developed and how you implement it.
Councilman Hays asked when a City Manager would step in to interfere with a
department head on evaluating of an employee. Mr. Yoder replied the City Manager
should have the final review of every evaluation or he won't have a good grasp
of how they're performing but unless there's a major discrepancy between the
supervisor and employee on the evaluation, he doesn't think a City Manager should
be involved and interfering.
Councilman Hays asked what new or innovative ideas he has that will be helpful
in correcting the financial loads every city is facing. Mr. Yoder replied you
have internal dissidents or a disparity between what's going on internally
financially and there are ways to innovate internally and approve productivity
and manage with less employees than most cities are familiar with. He said Palm
Bay was managing with 2-1/2 times less employees and their productivity was 2-
1/2 times that of Vero Beach and Melbourne, and other cities of comparable size,
which was the result of internal plans they were able to develop and one of those
was recruitment of those who are willing to work without pay being an issue.
He added there are external innovations and that can come from intergovernmental
relationships and Council can do local bills that will help the financial picture
and there's also pure innovation which doesn't happen often in local government.
Councilman Hays asked how he manages department heads and what techniques he uses
and if he's a leader or a driver. Mr. Yoder replied department heads are
professionals and they bring professional pride and it1s not wise to step on
their pride in the process of managing. He said he prefers to use a team concept
with participatory management and with time you empower them with decision making
abilities to improve the effectiveness and efficiency of their departments. He
added a certain amount already exists and it develops over time. He explained
he likes to have a goal setting process as part of the budget setting process
12 Council Special Meeting Minutes
September 23, 1991
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Interview of Roman Yoder (Continued)
and he encourages department heads to empower people for those tasks so the city
can begin to function as a cohesive unit and you don't have problems develop with
organized labor and pettiness because of an insensitive manager.
Councilman Hays asked Mr. Yoder why he feels he's best for the job. Mr. Yoder
replied the capacity and desire and his commitment to local government in Central
Florida which is the area where he wants to stay.
Councilperson Gillespie thanked Mr. Yoder for coming and noted she's familiar
with the Palm Bay area. She asked what hels been doing since the end of January
when he left there. Mr. Yoder replied he was looking for work and recently took
a job as Director of Purchasing for Central Florida Community College in Ocala.
Councilperson Gillespie stated he went through growth problems at Palm Bay and
weill have paving problems here and we've done BANis and SRF loans and bonds
and paving is at the end and weill need innovative and constructive thought.
She asked about subgrade roads as we have 100 miles of dirt roads. Mr. Yoder
replied they had 800 miles of roads and about 250 were in good condition and less
than 100 had been done in the 3 years he was there and that council was faced
with how to pay for it and they went for special referendum and dedicated millage
to road improvements and that process worked very well. He added after one year
they went back and got it extended for 5 years and innovative road construction
in the coastal communities has unique problems and ground water is one. He
explained they can pave by using lime road instead of cemented coquina and they
used the soil cement process and were not pleased with that and switched to lime
rock but you have to improve the drainage before doing that. Councilperson
Gillespie asked if he has preference. Mr. Yoder replied no, just whatever gets
the job done and the most miles for the least amount of money.
Councilperson Gillespie noted held worked with fire departments and we have paid
and volunteers. She asked if he can work with this type climate. Mr. Yoder
replied he doesn't believe thatls a problem and paid people are wonderful and
his wife is a firefighter and it's a workable situation. He added they need to
be aware training has to take place with them as well as everyone else.
Councilperson Gillespie stated we're desperately trying to bring in a larger
industrial base and asked if he works well with industrial groups, the Chamber,
and county groups. Mr. Yoder replied in Palm Bay they had policies and proced-
ures with the base already there and a well functioning Chamber of Commerce that
was taking the lead in recruiting business and industry but you have to look at
infrastructure in place when you look at big employers or it will be difficult.
Councilperson Martin stated she's aware of his career accomplishments but they're
trying to bring on board a City Manager to take over the City and work toward
the betterment of Edgewater into the future. She noted Edgewater is growing
almost too fast and we need guidance to move on, and asked if he feels he can
move us on. Mr. Yoder replied yes, he feels strongly in strategic formulation
and implementation because theylre critical elements of developing a strong
structure of government. He added you can develop it, but it's difficult to
implement, and it's an ongoing process. Councilperson Martin asked if he likes
to do this kind of work. Mr. Yoder replied yes, that's one of his strong assets.
Council person Martin asked if he's a strong people person and can get the
employees to work together. Mr. Yoder replied yes, he doesn't let it simmer if
there's a problem with employees and he wants to deal with it in the open.
Councilperson Martin said if he had a problem with someone, held take them behind
closed doors. Mr. Yoder agreed held deal with them on an individual basis.
Councilperson Martin asked if he delegates something, would he follow up and be
sure the project' s comp 1 eted. Mr. Yoder rep 1 i ed it depends on how much
confidence and trust you have in the department head and he tries to empower them
and requires reports and has regular staff meetings and likes to do reviews with
department heads on an individual basis.
Mayor Wessler asked how he feels about the Mayor and Council attending his
department head meeting. Mr. Yoder replied he prefers they do not but he has
no problem with it. Mayor Wessler asked his strongest and weakest area of
government such as where would he rely heaviest on a department head. Mr. Yoder
replied he has been exposed to all of them and is familiar with engineering but
would have to rely on engineering and some areas of finance.
13 Council Special Meeting Minutes
September 23, 1991
...
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Interview of Roman Yoder (Continued)
Mayor Wessler asked his relationship with the press. Mr. Yoder replied he1s
never had a problem and has had good press relations.
Mayor Wessler asked what held do if he sees a Council member overstepping her
bounds. Mr. Yoder replied held like to say no, but you canlt do it. Mayor
Wessler asked if held bring it to Council to decide if he relies on a 3-2 vote.
Mr. Yoder replied it depends on the issue and you have to decide if itls worth
dying for.
Councilman Jones stated welre looking at industrial development in the future
and asked if he has innovative ways to bring in industry that has not been
thought of, or any suggestion. Mr. Yoder replied no, and sometimes Councils gets
snowed and itls a complex problem with tax situations with business coming here
and you have to get out on the street and knock on doors and let these companies
know you want them to come to talk with you and be receptive to what they want
to do and be willing to negotiate.
Mayor Wessler suggested they do a 1 to 5 vote with 5 being best and 1 worst.
Councilman Jones stated held like time to think about it and doesn't like to
make a decisions at this point. Mayor Wessler suggested they put it on the
notice for Wednesday night (September 25th). Councilman Hays said theylve had
some really good candidates and if anything comes to mind, they can call them
but he doesn1t want to hurry a decision. Mayor Wessler stated it will come after
the budget portion.
Councilman Hays moved to adjourn. Councilperson Gillespie seconded the motion.
Meeting adjourned at 6:00 p.m.
Minutes submitted by:
Lura Sue Koser
COUN PERSON - ZONE THR
ATTEST:
~ -u-a- i z:z::;;;::.,.
CITY CLERK I .
A~r~h i s c2l day of
~ , 199--L-.
~~\~<o~
MAYOR
14 Council Special Meeting Minutes
September 23, 1991