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08-03-1991 - Special '~ ..... '.... ~ ....., CITY COUNCIL OF EDGEWATER SPECIAL MEETING AUGUST 3, 1991 MINUTES Mayor Wessler called the Special Meeting to order at 3:35 p.m. in the Community Center. The purpose was to take action on any matters related to CIP funding, matters of financing and collection procedures, and revenues pledged to the State as security for the loan of State Revolving Funds. ROLL CALL Mayor Tanya Wessler Councilman Kirk Jones Councilperson Louise Martin Councilperson NoraJane Gillespie Councilman Michael Hays Interim City Attorney Nikki Clayton Acting City Manager Fred Munoz City Clerk Susan Wadsworth Police Chief Lawrence Schumaker Present Present Present Present Present Present Present Present Present Mayor Wessler asked if most of these decisions are to be made at Tuesday's equalization meeting. Ms. Clayton replied yes, and she thought Council wanted to discuss pros and cons and make decisions that are not appropriate to the final assessment resolution, such as the County or City collect under 197, and whether they're going to set up some type of hardship provision. She added they can talk about the designs and plans and specifications and costs of the projects but those are more appropriately decided finally at the assessment hearing. She noted shelll address it as discussed if it should be finally resolved on Tuesday. Councilperson Gillespie asked if motions can be made at this meeting. Ms. Clayton replied some can have motions and others are best left for the final assessment resolution hearing and actions taken today can be reviewed Tuesday. Mr. Munoz stated Chapter 197 provides how the City can put a non-ad valorem tax assessment on the roll and it requires by January 10, 1992, that we inform the County we're going to use Chapter 197. He reviewed the procedure with final action a merging with the County's tax roll that's mailed out in early October that will include the City's non-ad valorem assessment. He explained anyone who pays through the County will be eligible to take the discount on the tax bill and the City's assessment, and people who pay quarterly can take advantage so everything available through ad valorem is also available through non-ad valorem. He pointed out one of the forces for Qutting it on the County tax bi 11 is collectability and it takes it out of t~e political decision for foreclosure. He noted when there's non payment, the County has a system for se 11 i ng tax certificates and he doesn't know if the State would allow the City to sell tax certificates on property they've assessed. He noted it's not a tax, it's an assessment. He said the City will have to set up on a computer the subsidiary ledger for every parcel billed because the County will collect the bill and remit it to us and we have to credit the property owner with the amount plus the discount. He said if there's a default weld have to go to foreclosure and that may come to Council for a decision and it may be several times. He explained they can do either of the options and if they decide to bill in-house it doesn't prevent billing through the County in the future. He suggested we may want to experiment and do it for 2 years and see what kind of delinquency we're getting and if it's unacceptable, we then may want to go to the County. He pointed out every year we have to go to the County by January 10 if we want to use this type of collection. He stated we may need one more half-person for the 6,028 equivalent parcels being billed. Councilperson Gillespie asked how many notices were returned. City Clerk Susan Wadsworth replied it was 75-100. Mr. Munoz explained they'll cross check against utility billing addresses and see if the County has more recent data in their records. Councilperson Gillespie asked if FEC was assessed since they own property. Mr. Munoz replied if they own property in the assessment district, they were, as well as the City's property. He stated Mr. Moynahan from Magnuson was the original developer of Florida Shores. Councilperson Gillespie stated there were 120 when we did the survey. She asked how those owned by the City are handled. Mr. Munoz said if it's a general fund asset, it's an expense of the general fund. ...... ....., Councilperson Gillespie stated we'll pay for the lines at the Florida Shores Clubhouse as it's their building but our land. Mr. Munoz clarified if the City is shown as the owner, the City gets the bill and the City Clerk had the bills checked and we're resolving it. Councilperson Gillespie stated Whistle Stop Park is the one big City park that everyone uses. Mr. Munoz explained that's half sewered by low pressure sewer and the other half is septic tank. Utilities Director Terry Wadsworth stated that's not part of Florida Shores so it's not in the assessment area. Counci lperson Gi llespie said she understood it was temporarily put on septic. Ms. Clayton asked if the City usually pays impact fees. Mr. Munoz replied yes, the City gets bills and there's no free service. Mayor Wess 1 er asked for input on the method of co 11 ect ion. Counc il person Gillespie said if we try it the first two years and then switch to the County it would save 1%. Councilman Jones asked if it's confirmed at 1%. Mr. Munoz replied he talked to the property appraiser who wasn't able to give us a fee but the County doesn't want to do it because it's additional work for them and makes the County tax bill look higher. He noted that's why the Statutes say they have to do it because a lot of the counties don't want to. Councilman Hays asked if there's a stipulation under 197. Mr. Munoz replied no, but 1% will more than adequately cover it. Ms. Clayton stated the administrative fees cannot be beyond the costs but being able to switch back and forth isn't entirely correct and if the City is in accordance with 197 you may be able to ask the County to do it but you'll have start up and stop costs. Mr. Munoz clarified he didn't ask to go back and forth but if we go with the City collecting the first two years and at a future date want to approach the County, it wou ld be by January 10th. Councilperson Gillespie said she'd like to hold off and make an attempt on our own because it's showing good faith to the public. Councilperson Martin expressed concern with the costs to hire a person to keep track of it and to keep the books as it may cost us more in the end. Councilperson Gillespie stated we have to do it in house and keep duplicate records even if the County collects. Mr. Munoz explained the need for subsidiary ledgers because any time during the year we have to be able to tell them what they owe. Councilperson Gillespie asked if it could be overtime for someone on staff or to hire staff. Mr. Munoz rep 1 i ed he cou 1 d work it out to hand 1 e the one-ha 1 f person. Counc i 1 person Gillespie asked if it's legal to start out and then switch over because if not, then we should go with the County. Ms. Clayton stated there's valuable information in maintaining subsidiary records and they're a benefit but there's more than just record keeping in administration of the program to achieve the 197 opportunity to put special assessments on the tax roll. She said she hasn't had direct experience with it that would be relevant on the City or County collecting but the County is set up to do it and it's their line of work and they may want to quantify how much that 1% would be on a yearly basis and whether there's any offsetting benefit. Mr. Munoz noted about $135,000 is built in. There was discussion regarding the previous special assessments for road paving that were handled by the City with few problems. Mr. Munoz pointed out this is a major assessment and if 5 to 10% isn't paid, that's a significant amount. Councilman Hays stated we discussed how to deal with the indigent population and still don't have a hard number of the percentage that will not be able to pay. Councilperson Gillespie stated 400 school age children are being clothed from New Smyrna Beach and Edgewater through Urban Ministries. Councilman Hays asked if weld know immediately if someone goes to foreclosure if the County's doing it and the City's running a subsidiary ledger, or is it quarterly, or yearly. Ms. Clayton replied you have to give a certain amount of time to declare default and you have recourse before forec 1 osure and cou 1 d appea 1 to the insurance program before they reach the court house steps. She explained there are built in safeguards and some jurisdictions have a 98% collection rate, some are 94%, but you have a certificate sold and you don't get to foreclosure until you get into the second year. She said the City will have information and a program set up for hardships with some type of advice to be given to citizens that they can come in in advance if they see they need to qualify. She added this is not a program that will take care of a large percentage, it's just a small amount that have to meet State or Federal income level. Councilman Hays said if there were 50 homes then they'd have adequate time to identify that to deal with it and to manage an insurance fund to help deal with those as a matter of policy. Ms. Clayton stated it will be ongoing and a bell curve with people moving in. 2 Council Special Meeting Minutes August 3, 1991 '-"- ,..., Mr. Munoz stated the one-half person is estimated for the Finance Department and if doing it in-house the Attorney will have to be much more involved because the County has a procedure to handle this and our City Attorney would have to develop and keep those because once they're delinquent it would be handed over to the City Attorney. Councilman Hays said if done in house it would be the City Attorney's responsible to place the lien. Mr. Munoz explained we're supposed to be making a good effort to collect the lien because otherwise other people will have to pay it. Mayor Wessler stated the insurance program is a good idea for someone such as a widow that can't afford to pay but someone may abuse the system. She briefly reviewed the Halifax Urban Ministries program to furnish $400 a year for housing, food, etc., and perhaps they could reach an agreement with HUM. Councilperson Gillespie pointed out they won't do it year after year for the same family. Councilperson Martin stated they'd have to set up a prepayment plan and it's more bookkeeping. Mr. Munoz agreed that's one of the problems and it's not really geared for that. Mayor Wessler said it might be better to go to someone like HUM rather than set it up. Councilperson Gillespie agreed and said they use Federal criteria. Mayor Wessler suggested our contribution to them at budget time could be more. Councilman Jones stated he favors the County's collection system because it's been working and he doesn't want to see duplication of services and doesn't see that much savings doing it ourselves and there will be headaches and problems with it. He said if the County doesn't do it to our standards then we can go back and we can do it and see if we can cut costs. Councilman Hays agreed it could give us an opportunity to see what really exists. Councilman Jones stated he wants to know what the charge will be before he makes a motion. Mr. Munoz said he hasn't been able to get it from them. Councilperson Gillespie said it can go above 1% but she doesn't see how it could be more than $10. Ms. Clayton pointed out the assessment program has to be done in conjunction with 197 requirements which isn't difficult and the final assessment resolution would be adopted in conformity with 197. There was discussion about further inquiries being made to the County for a charge. Mayor Wessler suggested Ms.Clayton call. Councilman Jones moved to use them under Chapter 197 provided they do not exceed reasonable collections. Councilperson Gillespie suggested reasonable and just cost. Councilman Jones so moved it. Councilperson Martin seconded the motion. Motion CARRIED 5-0. Counci lperson Gi llespie asked for an in house study by staff for homes and collections on the initial roll and figure it in conjunction with programs in the schools for meals and Halifax Urban Ministries. She noted we belong to United Way and can pool our resources and have a workshop on this with staff input and input from these agencies. She said they're all agreeable to assist those that absolutely will lose their homes if there's no other way but there's no mechanism in place. Councilman Jones asked if anyone contacted Farmers Horne Administration because some houses built in the past have been subsidized because income didn't meet the standards. Councilperson Gillespie stated we cannot qualify because we lost our status of rural. Councilman Jones noted there are still existing homes. Councilperson Gillespie said 28 of them. Mayor Wessler suggested it be checked into. Councilperson Gillespie stated Jack Corder was checking it for grants. Councilman Hays stated the direction we're going is fine and we want to reassure the community that we have a responsibility for the welfare of the community to provide it for the indigent person who cannot pay and Council will pursue it more as we get into the program. Ms. Clayton noted it doesn't have to be a condition of the final assessment resolution but it can be made so if the determination is to make further investigation and it could be done at a later date. Councilperson Gillespie asked about the costs of the City parks in Florida Shores because it's figured overall and the neighborhood parks are used totally by Florida Shores residents but not Whistle Stop Park. Mayor Wessler said it should be assessed to the whole City coming out of General Fund. Mr. Munoz agreed. Councilperson Gillespie asked if Mango is figured in. Mr. Munoz replied we get 3 Council Special Meeting Minutes August 3, 1991 '-" ...., the bill if we own the land. There was discussion about the location at 35th and Mango where shell is stored. Mr. Munoz stated the City Clerk can review the parcels to see if any are missing. Councilperson Gillespie pointed out the City owns 9 parcels. Councilman Jones asked about Whistle Stop Park and Mayor Wessler explained it's not in the special assessment district and would come out of General Fund when they do it so everyone pays for it. Councilperson Martin asked if the 120 homes outside Florida Shores will pay impact fees or assessment. Mr. Munoz replied Gates Castle is working on a design to provide sewers. Utilities Director Terry Wadsworth stated the proposal's in the budget to deal with more. Mr. Munoz explained it would be a mini-assessment and those not in the assessment areas could be treated the same as Florida Shores. There was discussion regarding a sewer at Dan Hatfield's property. Councilperson Gillespie stated 120 were removed that were originally in the CIP and Thomas Street bothers her because those people should be assessed because we have to run lines. She added those in a home where lines were in and didn't hook up would be $1,425 plus the $150. Ms. Clayton explained the ordinance provides for additional assessment areas and the only difference is a cost difference or they cannot be a part of the State Revolving Fund. Mr. Wadsworth stated we can still apply for those areas and with the proximity to the River we have a good change of being eligible. Councilperson Gillespie reviewed those that are going to the River now and said there are 4 businesses. Mr. Wadsworth stated some do not show up in the assessment but will be addressed by engineering design in next year's budget. Councilperson Gillespie asked if it was where Mr. Prather lives. Mr. Wadsworth replied yes, and the extension of line at Juniper. Councilperson Gillespie stated they're going by the Florida Shores grids. Mr. Wadsworth noted it's what the County gave us. Councilperson Gillespie asked about upsizing of the main lines for effluent as Don Berryhill gave a negative response and weill have to decide how to do it if it's going to be approved. Councilperson Gillespie stated the $350 is the plant share and $150 is for hook up. Mayor Wessler said $150 would be waived if they hook up within 90 days from the time the pipe is in front of the house and the City says you can hook up. Councilman Hays said he thought there was a requirement to hook up within 90 days. Mr. Munoz said they talked about waiving the fee and 365 days was also a figure they discussed. Mr. Wadsworth explained the City ordinance requires within 90 days from date of notification. Councilperson Gillespie asked about the $350. Ms. Clayton replied in fairness to the other people and Florida Shores residents, when you reallocate costs you need to make the findings as to whether you're talking about City-wide benefit or district benefit, and what reasoning to change the method of payment. She asked where the $150 would come from if it's not an individual property owner's responsibility. Councilperson Gillespie replied it would be a revenue loss and it doesn't cost us anything, it's like cream. Ms. Clayton asked if $150 is directly related to the cost of the function. Mr. Allen said that was how it was determined in the rate study and the $150 has not been included in any of the analysis and if they decide to take it out it doesn't affect the special assessment rates. Councilperson Gillespie pointed out if we leave it in, there would be more money. Ms. Clayton asked if the $150 is over and above a bill they receive for special assessment and pays for the actual turning on of the meter. Mr. Allen explained they do line location to tell you where it is. Councilman Hays stated he thought it's a good idea to take it out because it's not part of the special assessment and they already have paid engineers in the field working. Mr. Allen agreed. Councilman Hays said they'll have to layout where laterals come in and it would be different if they would have to go back and forth to make inspections. Mr. Wadsworth explained the reason this was a point of contention is that early in the program it was felt the contractors could do the connection as they were installing the improvement in the streets and wouldn't have to charge the $150 fee, and now with the $605 allowance for septic tank abandonment and running laterals that makes it a moot point as the contractor will probably not be making a physical connection. He added with liability and working on private property we backed out on it. 4 Council Special Meeting Minutes August 3, 1991 .--- ..""" Ms. Clayton stated they established a program and tried to allocate costs directly related to the benefits the property owner receives and if they find a cost that's more appropriately a City-wide cost, then they may want to take it away from the special assessment and assign it to the rate source or utility taxes and if they find a cost being paid from rates that would benefit Florida Shores, it would be appropriate to add it to the special assessment. She said they've analyzed rates and special assessment but there still may be things that can be defined and redefined as a City-wide benefit that doesn't just benefit Florida Shores. She explained the disposal system was a City-wide benefit and that's why they justified the $190 and the argument can be made from both sides. She suggested they analyze any other component they want to reassign. Councilman Hays said the $150 for hook up rationale is that it's a City-wide benefit that people abandon their septic and become sewer customers. Councilperson Gillespie said she'd like the $350 removed from the sewer plant because the City has to have a new sewer plant even if they don't have the connection. She added it's a new plant except for the refurbished chamber. Ms. Clayton said she'd argue the other side has paid other than the additional unit of capacity, the majority on the existing sewer system have paid impact fees. Councilperson Gillespie said it's just two years. Ms. Clayton stated the majority on the existing sewer system paid impact fees and it would be unfair to them to pay $1,000 or $1,400 and for Florida Shores to hook into a capital improvement facility without paying some major costs for their unit of capacity. She said it's $1,400 connection fee for anyone else and inside Florida Shores you give them a break with piping through State Revolving Fund benefits. She said existing users paid for their unit of capacity and paid in their rates for repair and replacement. She added you could argue the upgrade of the system plus the continuing disposal capacity have been handled in their rates and there's a lot of discussion but she's trying to see defensibility and assumptions in Florida Shores have to be as solid as for existing sewer customers. Councilperson Gillespie stated assessments only go back 8 years for all of them. Mr. Wadsworth pointed out impact fees started in 1974. Councilperson Gillespie noted she had a paving fee. Mr. Wadsworth and Councilperson Gillespie briefly discussed prior figures. Councilperson Gillespie asked Council to consider the $350 because of the plant and tie down Tuesday the mini-assessments for those areas outside the geographical location known as Florida Shores, that portion that's unsewered. She added she doesn't actually live in Florida Shores. Councilman Hays stated held talked with Ron Ferland about the $350 and asked him to work on this. Mr. Allen said it can work any way and they need to know which way to go so they can prepare the loan agreements. There was discussion about the July 25th memo regarding the United Taxpayers of Edgewater's proposed funding program. Mr. Munoz noted the debt service is about $165,000. Mayor Wessler stated the $350 is cons i dered to be a wastewater impact fee as part of the special assessment. Councilman Hays said it's handling it as utility tax. Mayor Wessler stated she talked with Mr. Ferland about the $350 and there was a problem with taking it there and perhaps it should come off the collection system. Mr. Allen stated they believe it would be better to take it out of the transmission which is part of the collection system because they believe Florida Shores residents should pay a capital contribution to the wastewater treatment plant to maintain equity with future users who will pay an impact fee. He noted by allocating the assessment they'll have to redo the resolution, which is administrative. Ms. Clayton explained method of collection is with collection for 1 inea 1 foot and wastewater treatment is unit of capacity so assessment not ices wou 1 d be incorrect and there wou 1 d be some de 1 ay. Counc il person Gillespie stated Mr. Ferland assures it will work financially. Mr. Allen clarified the cost will have to be offset and the money will have to come from somewhere else. Counc il person Gill esp i e sa i d we can cut the budget for any services we don't think necessary. Mr. Allen explained it will then come out of the General Fund. Mayor Wessler asked about future property owners. Council- person Gillespie replied weill have to address that separately. Mr. Allen stated that's part of the resolution that has to be revised and it seems they should have to pay some type of impact fee. Councilperson Gillespie stated if we take $350 out and everyone pays $1,425 there's no bookkeeping problem and an ordinance 5 Council Special Meeting Minutes August 3, 1991 ...... ...., is in place. Mr. Munoz asked if it's in addition to wastewater collection. Council person Gillespie replied not now. Mr. Allen asked if those with a residence now would pay it. Councilperson Gillespie replied no, they're paying for their lines now and there's no problem with that. She asked if they own a share of the plant in advance when they're not affecting the plant other than to assist paying for it and when they hook up they'll be paying the same user fees as anyone else. She asked why they pay a share for something they don't have a problem with and they've already assisted. She added the City cannot afford to pay for a new sewer plant but 50% need it. Mr. Allen said the City doesn't need to build a 2.5 MGD plant if Florida Shores were not involved, they would build a 1.1 MGD. Councilperson Gillespie asked the capacity within Florida Shores. Mr. Wadsworth replied about 670,000. Councilperson Gillespie stated the old part of the City is about 90% built out. Mr. Wadsworth agreed. Ms. Clayton asked if there are two systems to be built and the old system shares theirs and Florida Shores builds theirs, who will pay a higher cost to do that, and is Florida Shores going to realize by joining forces with a single system it's going to benefit. She asked if it had been analyzed. Council person Gillespie said it's 50/50 in costs as well because the old system cannot be just rebuilt or reconditioned, it needs total rehabilitation which is a new plant. Ms. Clayton noted the engineering answer was to get a separate system in the old area. Mr. Allen stated it's because of tank sizes and there are a lot of benefits to having an existing plant if the plant stays at the size, but because of the small size now they can not reuse it, but if they go to a plant of 1.1 then they can reuse. He added it was not totally analyzed and they're going to run an effluent line to the River to cover capacity but without additional flow they wouldn't have to run a new line. He said they believe it would be a cheaper cost because they could reuse more. Mayor Wessler stated taking $350 out is nice for Florida Shores but Mr. Munoz gave them a justification of utility taxes from Florida Shores that came to over $800,000 and they're getting the $2 million dollar grant. Councilman Hays pointed out one-half of the $2 million is for Florida Shores anyway. Councilperson Gillespie noted none of these people are reaping the benefit the $1,400 gives to people in the old part of town and those people have sewer within 90 days on line and we're going to pay $350 now and 2 years from now will be seeing a facility. Councilman Jones stated they don't pay until they're using it. Councilperson Gillespie agreed that's true unless they want to pay up front. Mayor Wessler asked if someone can pay before it goes to bid. Mr. Munoz said phase 1 will be on the County tax bill in November, 1992, and they don't have to pay it until April, 1993. Mr. Allen explained they can't pay it until they've been assessed. Councilperson Gillespie noted they've been assessed now. Mayor Wessler said welre sending checks back to those who have paid. Councilperson Martin stated we1ve given $2 million against Florida Shores which is 100% so what would the assessment be if we take back $1 million and give it to the other side of town. She asked what the difference would be. Mr. Munoz said we could take impact fees out of it and the $2 million grant could be taken out later. Councilperson Martin stated we're saying $2 million is 50/50 and the old section is giving $1 million to Florida Shores and she's concerned with over-indulgence. She said suppose we give $1 million and keep $1 million if welre going to split up the area. She asked how much welre giving and how much we're getting back. She stated welre not two cities, welre one, and it's only $350 and we've already given $1 million as 50% and could keep the $1 million and take back the $350. She asked why they're quibbling. Councilman Hays stated if we take $1 million to the present sewered part of the system to the user fees or plant and the other $1 million is used for plant development, then we would have two separate fee structures when we get done. Councilperson Martin stated she wants to come to an agreement. Mayor Wessler stated she feels it's fair the way it is. Councilperson Gillespie pointed out it was a grant to the plant and not to Florida Shores and it came off the cost at the top. Mr. Munoz stated we started with $9,106,987 for the wastewater treatment plant and didn't remove the present sewer impact fees because those were paid by people on the sewer system now and will have to be allocated later so one-half of that is the plant capacity for Florida Shores. 6 Council Special Meeting Minutes August 3, 1991 ... """" Mr. Munoz continued that one-half of the rest of the City would be $4,553,494, applying one-half of the grant of $1 million would end up at $3,553,494 for Florida Shores, and taking out impact fees in place of $886,000 and the million for the grant would be about $2,667,494. He said the assessment for Florida Shores would be higher by the $1 million that's not available in the grant and by impact fees that are on hand and paid by people already sewered. Councilperson Martin stated she has no problem with impact fees but cannot see why 50/50 is not accepted when you give somebody something with the $2 million. She said we don't want the assessment to go up in Florida Shores but want to understand why the quibbling over $350 when the $2 million took care of a lot of credit. Councilman Jones stated he feels it's as fair as it can be and the $350 is a contribution to the new system to be a part of it and we've looked at all kinds of ways to make it as fair as possible. He noted the old City paid for services and we looked into it and looked at population in 1967 and we assume Florida Shores paid 50% but they didn't because it was not 50% in Florida Shores of what was in the old part of the City that year. He said we took the $2 million dollar grant and applied it to Florida Shores and took $886,000 impact fees that people paid and gave it to Florida Shores and he doesn't know how much more the Northern part of town can keep giving. He said we're building a new sewer treatment plant because of Florida Shores and we can upgrade our present plant for capacity we are at now and it would be a lot cheaper. He added Florida Shores has the runoff from septic tanks and we're being mandated to do this. He stated $350 doesn't seem like a big deal and held like to do it at no cost to anyone but that's not reality. He said we're bending over backwards to do the best we can. Councilperson Martin stated in 1967 there were 600-700 total homes and if you figure 100 homes built a year, how much income has been taken in from those homes each year. She said she's all for getting Florida Shores onto the system and wants to be fair about it but there are some points that aren't being accepted and she'd like to know why. Councilman Hays said the point on the plant goes back to fairness and if the plant being built is a new plant for the entire City, that's great, but if one part of the City is paying for it out of rates, shouldn't the entire City pay their share out of rates. He said if you assess and then corne back and charge rates, you've double assessed them, and if you charge an impact fee and then charge to use it. Mayor Wessler pointed out people in the old part of Edgewater have paid impact fees and are paying user fees. Councilman Hays stated he doesn't have a problem with the front foot assessment to lay pipe in the ground and for the pumping station and transport it, but the plant facility is new with the exception of a couple of tanks, and they have rate structures and rate user fees but he doesn't think it's equitable to assess someone for a plant and then for user fees. He said if it's totally user fees when he comes on line, to pay the fees of someone on the sewer system is fair. Councilperson Martin asked if the $1 million is giving some equity for the extra charges. Councilman Hays replied thatls to be used for addressing past inequities and the $1 million was used to offset inequities for service taxes that were used by the City. Councilman Jones said it would be $1,425 for Wildwood and Shangri-La and they've already paid for that hook up and pay user fees like everyone else. Council- person Gillespie noted they're getting the service. She added the utility tax the rest pay into now on everything except sewer goes into the general operating fund. She said we're doing R & R and high capital is needed for the old part of the City and it goes to $100,000 in two years. Mr. Wadsworth clarified repair and replacement in the budget to operate this system is used for repairs and it will continue to exist and will not significantly increase because of this issue. He explained renewal and replacements that will be added on provides for the whole system through the first few years and the significant portion could be pledged to make repairs to the old part of the system. He added renewal and replacement is $31,000 for next year, which isn't significant. Councilperson Gillespie asked if it's $67,000 in the other one. Mr. Wadsworth replied it's 78 and has noth i ng to do wi th th i s grant. Counc il person Gill esp i e and Mr. Wadsworth briefly discussed this subject. Mr. Wadsworth stated it's the discretion of Council and the engineers. He said they're looking at 50/50 capacity split between sewered and unsewered and page 3 of the handout concerning 7 Council Special Meeting Minutes August 3, 1991 . " .,.,. ...., the capacity allotment shows Florida Shores is going to benefit from twice the plant capacity as the existing users are and he doesn't know if it can be classified as equitable to have a 50/50 split. He explained they'll be generating more waste and the remaining balance will be paid by new users and the City doesn't participate in the cost. He added that percentage-wise in terms of what they're paying for plant capacity share, Florida Shores is getting a good deal now. Councilman Jones moved we keep it as is, the $350. Councilperson Martin seconded the motion. Councilman Hays said we're going to establish policy and what way we're going and we're addressing things that were reflected in the memo to Mr. Munoz from Dyer, Riddle regarding feasibility of the UTE plan. Councilman Jones agreed it was the 25th memo. Councilperson Gillespie noted we can re-decide Tuesday if something else comes up. Motion CARRIED 3-2. Council person Gillespie and Councilman Hays voted NO. Ms. Clayton stated they need to look at evaluation of the rates and if the rate is built with various components, operate and maintain, and renewal and replace- ment, and debt service, and if they want to reallocate some numbers. She said they were ta 1 king about the user serv i ce taxes and she's watch i ng severa 1 jurisdictions now that are trying to adopt a utility service tax for one of those services for which you're justified in charging for the service and you can set the rates to cover. Councilperson Gillespie said we don't break even for our costs. Ms. Clayton suggested if there's going to be reallocation Tuesday night they may want to evaluate impact on the rates because utility service taxes would be supplemented by cutting the services or dealing with your millage rate. She added they may want to compare it to the impact only rates. She said she'd like to know how many sewer customers they have and how much has been paid in impact fees and they can use it to discuss with citizens Tuesday night. She noted it1s important to explain the decision on Tuesday night. Mayor Wessler stated anything they want to say on Tuesday needs to be given to Mrs. Wadsworth and Mr. Munoz to get it together and have it to Council by Monday night. Councilperson Gillespie stated petitions will be coming from both sides Tuesday night and she1s aware of them but hasn't read either one. Ms. Clayton stated they're charging people the actual cost of the services and with util ity service fees in Florida Shores some people will be wi 11 ing to obtain the service but will have difficulty because of the number of lots they own, sometimes for investment purposes. She explained in the equalization hearing people will ask if they can make arrangements for paying other than the special assessment program and in that portion Council will be faced with more arguments about how somebody can afford to pay rent. She referred to an incident with an owner of a large amount of lots who wanted to extend the payment schedule. She said an example of what they may be faced with is a request to not pay the special assessment now but will agree to pay a large impact fee later on with a letter of credit assuring it. Counci lperson Gi llespie stated we didn't encourage people to pay up front and need to do that when they're eligible to because if they pay it over time it would be higher. Ms. Clayton pointed out this is a very good interest rate so they shouldn't get involved in making investment decisions for people. Councilperson Gillespie clarified she hasn't told anyone about investments but asked Mr. Ferland to discuss it both ways and the people can make their own choice. Ms. Clayton stated it's best to pay the assessment than to borrow the money from someone and pay it back. Councilperson Gillespie stated she can pay it with Citicorp because she can pay it for 5 years. There was discussion regarding cards being filled out by those who want to speak with the cards turned over to the City Clerk. There was then discussion about a time limit and Councilperson Gillespie pointed out whoever submits petitions will need more time. It was agreed the time limit would be 3 minutes unless a Councilmember requests them to go on and return visits only after everyone has had the i r chance to speak once. Ms. Clayton noted some peop 1 e wi 11 have individual slips and some will want to speak on the program in general and they could divide them to be the program in general and then individual matters. Councilperson Gillespie said the County uses a procedure of getting the overall people and then those that need individual time. Ms. Clayton noted there may be an exception to the rule and that should be handled after the general issue. Councilperson Gillespie noted some people get embarrassed and don't want to speak 8 Council Special Meeting Minutes August 3, 1991 ~ ...." in a crowd. Ms. Clayton said program matters need to be out of the way first and then adjust individual parcels in relation to the overall program that's decided on. Mr. Munoz said over the 20 year period for every $100 they'll pay $175, or $75 in interest, if they take the full 20 years because of the low interest rate. He agreed with Ms. Clayton that they shouldn't' give financial advice because most are adults. He added this is a low interest loan and if you have a low interest rate you1re better paying it but you shouldn1t get an equity loan at 11% to payoff 5-1/2% interest. He noted some people will do that to have the lien off. He said billing people for 3 lots and they have 2-1/2 lots is an issue that will come up and they can make a blanket adjustment for that. Councilperson Gillespie agreed. Councilman Hays asked how they'd pay for it. Councilperson Gillespie replied it's broken down by foot. Ms. Clayton explained 2-1/2 is an individual equalization matter and she understands there1s an area that requires 2-1/1 lots to make a buildable lot. It was noted that1s Cherokee Ridge. Councilperson Gillespie moved to adjourn. Councilman Jones seconded the motion. Meeting was adjourned at 5:23 p.m. Minutes submitted by: Lura Sue Koser .S1~~ COUNCILMAN ~ ATTEST: J--- f~. C TY CLERK { Approved th is / C. day of " :.If";- , 199...L... ~~~~~~ +~/ MAYOR ' 9 Council Special Meeting Minutes August 3, 1991